@@bluearcher1559 So, what Cybermen do you think we're seeing from Season 6 'Closing Time' onward? They have space travel, were buried in the earth for hundreds of years, and used Cybermats. Those certainly weren't the Cybus Cybermen. The show incorporated the more modern design for the Mondasian Cybermen jsut like they did for Silurians, Sontarans, etc. The ones in the Series 10 finale were explicitly stated as being among the earliest examples of cyber conversion, giving an in-universe, hand-wavy reason for their old appearance being used.
@PathsUnwritten oh shit you're right. That's actually totally them technically forsure. I though of the Cybrus design and immediately dismissed the idea.
Damn - I had no idea the Cybermen (as well as Mondas itself, beyond Spare Parts and one or two others) had nearly this level of complex history, particularly post-Mondas itself. The show pretty much just showed post-Mondas Cybermen, largely, as just at an evolutionary standstill, mostly just increasing their quantity, rather than going on any deviations. As such, the show almost always treated the Cybermen, post-Mondas, in the same way they would the Daleks, in that they're bad, they're plentiful, and each adventure (like Tomb/Revenge/Attack of the Cybermen, Earthshock & Silver Nemesis) seemingly just being against different squads of the same army, almost like The Doctor was a not-directly-violent version of Spartacus, coming across pockets of Romans and then ultimately annihilating them. Definitely gonna bookmark this one, as it's quite engaging to listen to this. And I agree, I'd love another pre-Cybermen Mondas story - Spare Parts was excellent.
What I wanna know is how Mondas became an _exact_ copy of Earth even with all the same species. Does Mondas have its own version of the Blessing from Torchwood Series 4?
that would make being a cyberman even more of a living hell, my god techincally skaro could have one and the daleks might have tapped into it thats why the sewer daleks are a thing and that they dont die, seems very much like the miracle like that woman who got trapped into a crushed car
1960s television was inordinately fond of "parallel Earth" stories. Mostly because they allowed them to rent historical props and costumes instead of having to hand make something new and different every story. Star Trek (TOS) was infamous for stumbling on planets that just happened to look just exactly like 1930s Germany, to pick the MOST infamous example. *Cough*
I was so disappointed that 'Spare Parts' wasn't adapted into a Capaldi 2 or 3 part TV adventure. He'd have been the perfect modern Doctor to do it with and the VFX would have been up to the task.
The fact they're spacefaring means even if the planet is gone, it's expansion means you can still encounter mondassians, as we did in The World Enough and Time
@@dellboy3678 Well maybe. In the modern era the cybermen had to make a return but were also fudged. The initial idea to tie it to modern reliance on consumer electronics was clever and the broader point that it can always happen was natural. As to the original premise, it was based on a very real push for and fear of what was labelled "white heat" technological advance under Wilson. The cybermen as a concept were probably the first truly contemporary political cautionary tale in the show's history. Personally I think it was presumed in 10th Planet that the Mondasians had "cyberised" themselves out of tragic necessity, given what had happened to their environment. Which Moffat astutely echoed in the Capaldi two parter. A shame Chibnall bottled the takeover so that story wasn't Capaldi's swansong but then most of what Chibnall did was a shame.
@@nathanbreen5535 All kinds of spinoff/extended/comic/fanfic exists and it can be part of it for you if you choose. My view is that if you want to go for it you're welcome to, but the main TV line should be complete without it. Most of what's presented here is optional and isn't "the full story".
I just watched the Tenth Planet for my Old Who watchlist (am currently on the Moonbase). Now I'm really hankering for some kind of onscreen follow-up to that early episode.
I love the early cyberfaction cyber men, especially in tomb of the cyber men and the wheel in space. I don’t feel like they’d be popular in a return due to their unconnected storylines, but I think they seem ever so cyber like. I see them as the pinnacle of cyber engineering.
The Modasian Cybermen were the only versions that lived up to the actual description of the Cybermen. The cybernetic replacement of body parts not robots with organic brains.
I have never realised that Marc Platt semi-retconned the Cyberman name, an admittedly outdated and strange term coming from a race of cybernetic beings without gender, into making sense in Mondasian culture; Cyberman is a title similar to Doctorman, etc. When everyone had undergone conversion, they all held the same title, becoming their race name; Cybermen. Also... can we never again mention how you pronounced Telos? I'm feeling some strong emotions after hearing that...
We can be grateful Harbo didn't pronounce it "Tel-owce", like the Americans would... alongside such abominations as "Mythowce", "Kudowce", "Davrowce" etc. (Thinks: how is it even possible to screw up a simple monosyllable like the "-os" suffix?)
@@brigadier-tc8565 Their pronunciation never ceases to amaze/depress me! More worryingly, some Brits - not Harbo, thankfully - seem to be picking up the American habit.
@@ftumschk I studied this at A Level, the long and short of it comes down to media consumption, and how much American content we're exposed to growing up, as opposed to say someone growing up in the 70s, who would only really be exposed to American cinema, and not TV or the internet like today
@@brigadier-tc8565 Indeed so. I've no objection to American idioms being co-opted into British English (e.g. "dumpster fire" seems to be overtaking "train-wreck" to describe a shambolic situation), because such things enrich our vocabulary. However, I'd argue that our language is _diminished_ when we adopt blatantly inaccurate Americanised pronunciation, when there was nothing wrong with how we pronounced a given word in the first place. Indeed, in many cases we're more faithful to that word's etymology, so caving in to American mispronunciation is arguably a backward step. The "-os" in kudos, ethos, mythos (etc) is a good case in point, because these words always have an omicron (short "o" as in "of") in the original Greek, and never an omega (long "o" as in "stove"). Also, if the word isn't Greek, the originals are pronounced with a short "o" by native speakers (e.g. the Hispanic name Carlos rhymes with "doss", not - as Americans would have it - "dose"). If we're not careful, we'll be pronouncing basil as "bayzil" next ;)
@@williammitchell4417One's a rock floating in the middle of Nowhere the other Is partially dead robot god Still both are better than galafay Which depending on the day is either Completely destroyed or there's like ten of them
It's still a dwarf planet, as are Eris, Ceres and any number of others (some bigger than Pluto). "Normal" planets have to: 1 - orbit the barycentre of the solar system (✅), 2 - be massive enough for its gravity to pull it into a sphere (✅) [take that flat Earthers! 😂], and 3 - to clear its path of other bodies (asteroids, smaller dwarf planets, planetesimals, etc., etc., etc.) (❌)! Two out of three ain't bad 😉. You can call Pluto a planet colloquially, but not scientifically. What you may have heard about is the prediction of a Neptune-sized (iirc) planet orbiting outside of the Kuyper Belt but still in the solar system. It's not visible and highly unlikely to be so without new developments in space telescope tech, but the maths and its effect on the outer bodies that we can track really do suggest that it exists. It's been nicknamed Planet 9 (or X by some others, that's the letter, not the Roman numeral! Just to confuse matters lol). Hope this is of interest to you 😊
A spinoff show about a separate timelord who discovers a prototype tardis made from a prototype version of a mondasian cyberman would be fun especially if it gave some tart or sassy remarks or otherwise broke tardis conventions.
This has so much Comic stuff in it that I never read, heard of, or cared about. For me if it wasn't on TV, in an audio, or a novel, it pretty much didn't happen. Mostly because every time I tried to read a comic it tended to go off into LaLa land of errant nonsense that I just couldn't suspend my disbelief for. And because continuity fits better w/out comics muddying the waters, usually. But well done, just One very important question: Are you saying Telos wrong on purpose as a running joke, or have you really not watched any of the TV stories where it is clearly pronounced for you?
I watch your vids to go to sleep and the best compliment I can give is that if I forget to like before I put my phone landscape I flip it back up and like then go back to watching harbo always gets the like
Yeah i feel like theres a lot to the cybermen that isnt explored anymore. Nowadays they are just generic robots with a general "upgrade" motivation but i feel like giving them some emotional motivation makes them much more interesting
"Most astronomers would laugh off the idea of Planet 9" Yeah, no. There's a lot of research going on in there and there's a lot of evidence showing that something must be there because the objects in the Kuiper belt behave strangely, as if some big object was pulling on them.
don't worry, as an australian I forgive the mockery this time. also, mondas is such a cool planet, but I somehow doubt that it'll get properly treated in the main show, like how skaro being partial jungle in the post-civil war era and having TWO distinct groups living on it has been ignored since possibly even genesis of the daleks
Thals have been in audios and novels but yeah, you're right, they have not been on screen since Genesis. But don't lose hope, we got a Movellan cameo in Series 10, and I never expected to see them again. 😅
Agreed, but his specific date of birth is up for debate. Thus, the current date we widely use is his "supposed" birthday. So he's not entirely inaccurate. 😋
@connorwinter6420 There were contemporary Roman accounts. About some cult leader causing trouble in the Judea province. Then, about his followers spreading out during the reign of Nero. And when Nero needed a scapegoat for his poor political abilities, he blamed all of society's ills on this cult of "Christians." So at the very least, there must have been some guy that had influence enough to start the whole religion. Just like there must have been a Muhammad for the Muslims or a Guru Nanark for the Sikhs.
@@benjamindrayton1380 We know with near certainty that he was born around the year 0, there of course is some contention, but by most accounts and the general scientific consensus, it is approximately 4-6 BC. Whether it was 4 or 50 is irrelevant though as he said "Over a thousand years" which is vague enough for some leeway, so the "supposed" is entirely unnecessary and grammatically speaking (intended or not) implies there is doubt about his birth in general
@@HarboWholmes At least old Who didn't feel the need to call the planet Cyber Mondas or something similar...which would've been right in their wheelhouse to do.
I wander if the cyber mondans were like the American capitalists and the cyber faction being like the Chinese communists given they went for uniformity and the mondans a little bit individualistic
I've never felt the need to resort to comics and novels to flesh out what was on the TV. It's generally a lot of pseudo official stuff to flesh out continuity in a fictional universe that's always been cheerfully blase about it and doesn't really need it. Trying to figure out how Earth has managed to host the Racnos, the Jagaroth, the Silurians and Sea Devils, the Fendahl, the Osirans, the Daemons and I'm sure I've forgotten some, let alone once having had a twin planet where our equivalents started welding ipods into themselves seems rather unnecessary.
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I wish we could see more of the mondasian cybermen, they are more scarier than the modern versions.
Almost all the Cybermen seen in the most recent series (since Series 6 'Closing Time') have been the Mondasian variety and their descendants.
@PathsUnwritten that's funny cause they only showed up in the s10 finale
@@bluearcher1559 So, what Cybermen do you think we're seeing from Season 6 'Closing Time' onward? They have space travel, were buried in the earth for hundreds of years, and used Cybermats. Those certainly weren't the Cybus Cybermen.
The show incorporated the more modern design for the Mondasian Cybermen jsut like they did for Silurians, Sontarans, etc. The ones in the Series 10 finale were explicitly stated as being among the earliest examples of cyber conversion, giving an in-universe, hand-wavy reason for their old appearance being used.
@PathsUnwritten oh shit you're right. That's actually totally them technically forsure. I though of the Cybrus design and immediately dismissed the idea.
I am Bill Potts...
Thanks for putting a Mondasian cyberman in the thumbnail. I'm traumatised now! Those cloth faces are genuinely horrifying!!!
Easily the most horrifying form the cybermen have taken! They make my skin crawl 😖
Damn - I had no idea the Cybermen (as well as Mondas itself, beyond Spare Parts and one or two others) had nearly this level of complex history, particularly post-Mondas itself. The show pretty much just showed post-Mondas Cybermen, largely, as just at an evolutionary standstill, mostly just increasing their quantity, rather than going on any deviations. As such, the show almost always treated the Cybermen, post-Mondas, in the same way they would the Daleks, in that they're bad, they're plentiful, and each adventure (like Tomb/Revenge/Attack of the Cybermen, Earthshock & Silver Nemesis) seemingly just being against different squads of the same army, almost like The Doctor was a not-directly-violent version of Spartacus, coming across pockets of Romans and then ultimately annihilating them.
Definitely gonna bookmark this one, as it's quite engaging to listen to this. And I agree, I'd love another pre-Cybermen Mondas story - Spare Parts was excellent.
What I wanna know is how Mondas became an _exact_ copy of Earth even with all the same species. Does Mondas have its own version of the Blessing from Torchwood Series 4?
that would make being a cyberman even more of a living hell, my god
techincally skaro could have one and the daleks might have tapped into it
thats why the sewer daleks are a thing and that they dont die, seems very much like the miracle like that woman who got trapped into a crushed car
@@theentity5201 give me miracle day on skaro!!!
1960s television was inordinately fond of "parallel Earth" stories. Mostly because they allowed them to rent historical props and costumes instead of having to hand make something new and different every story. Star Trek (TOS) was infamous for stumbling on planets that just happened to look just exactly like 1930s Germany, to pick the MOST infamous example. *Cough*
Maybe it's a morphogenetic field effect.
I was so disappointed that 'Spare Parts' wasn't adapted into a Capaldi 2 or 3 part TV adventure. He'd have been the perfect modern Doctor to do it with and the VFX would have been up to the task.
"World Enough and Time" essentially _was_ the adaptation.
The fact they're spacefaring means even if the planet is gone, it's expansion means you can still encounter mondassians, as we did in The World Enough and Time
I would love a modern Mondas story about the rise of the Cybermen before The Tenth Planet
Surely that's what World Enough/Falls is?
@@Pooter-it4yg true but I’d love to explore the planet and go in depth with how it had to adapt with the harsher climates
@@dellboy3678 Well maybe. In the modern era the cybermen had to make a return but were also fudged. The initial idea to tie it to modern reliance on consumer electronics was clever and the broader point that it can always happen was natural.
As to the original premise, it was based on a very real push for and fear of what was labelled "white heat" technological advance under Wilson. The cybermen as a concept were probably the first truly contemporary political cautionary tale in the show's history.
Personally I think it was presumed in 10th Planet that the Mondasians had "cyberised" themselves out of tragic necessity, given what had happened to their environment. Which Moffat astutely echoed in the Capaldi two parter. A shame Chibnall bottled the takeover so that story wasn't Capaldi's swansong but then most of what Chibnall did was a shame.
Spare parts exists
@@nathanbreen5535 All kinds of spinoff/extended/comic/fanfic exists and it can be part of it for you if you choose. My view is that if you want to go for it you're welcome to, but the main TV line should be complete without it. Most of what's presented here is optional and isn't "the full story".
I think it would have been cool if instead of an alternate earth in Rise of the Cybermen it was an alternate version of Mondas which is thriving.
Why are the Modas Seadevils so adorable?
They look like freaking pokemon monsters instead of a Doctor Who Monster.
I've been seeing alot of doctor who analog horror stuff recently, and I think Mondas and the cybermen fits it perfectly. 😊
I just watched the Tenth Planet for my Old Who watchlist (am currently on the Moonbase). Now I'm really hankering for some kind of onscreen follow-up to that early episode.
I love the early cyberfaction cyber men, especially in tomb of the cyber men and the wheel in space. I don’t feel like they’d be popular in a return due to their unconnected storylines, but I think they seem ever so cyber like. I see them as the pinnacle of cyber engineering.
The Modasian Cybermen were the only versions that lived up to the actual description of the Cybermen. The cybernetic replacement of body parts not robots with organic brains.
I have never realised that Marc Platt semi-retconned the Cyberman name, an admittedly outdated and strange term coming from a race of cybernetic beings without gender, into making sense in Mondasian culture; Cyberman is a title similar to Doctorman, etc. When everyone had undergone conversion, they all held the same title, becoming their race name; Cybermen.
Also... can we never again mention how you pronounced Telos? I'm feeling some strong emotions after hearing that...
We can be grateful Harbo didn't pronounce it "Tel-owce", like the Americans would... alongside such abominations as "Mythowce", "Kudowce", "Davrowce" etc. (Thinks: how is it even possible to screw up a simple monosyllable like the "-os" suffix?)
@@ftumschk Clearly you underestimate how stubborn Americans can be in their dedication to mispronunciation
@@brigadier-tc8565 Their pronunciation never ceases to amaze/depress me! More worryingly, some Brits - not Harbo, thankfully - seem to be picking up the American habit.
@@ftumschk I studied this at A Level, the long and short of it comes down to media consumption, and how much American content we're exposed to growing up, as opposed to say someone growing up in the 70s, who would only really be exposed to American cinema, and not TV or the internet like today
@@brigadier-tc8565 Indeed so. I've no objection to American idioms being co-opted into British English (e.g. "dumpster fire" seems to be overtaking "train-wreck" to describe a shambolic situation), because such things enrich our vocabulary. However, I'd argue that our language is _diminished_ when we adopt blatantly inaccurate Americanised pronunciation, when there was nothing wrong with how we pronounced a given word in the first place. Indeed, in many cases we're more faithful to that word's etymology, so caving in to American mispronunciation is arguably a backward step.
The "-os" in kudos, ethos, mythos (etc) is a good case in point, because these words always have an omicron (short "o" as in "of") in the original Greek, and never an omega (long "o" as in "stove"). Also, if the word isn't Greek, the originals are pronounced with a short "o" by native speakers (e.g. the Hispanic name Carlos rhymes with "doss", not - as Americans would have it - "dose").
If we're not careful, we'll be pronouncing basil as "bayzil" next ;)
Mondas couldve been a beautiful world instead it became a souless machine
So it became just like earth lol
Fitting
Sounds like Cybertron.
@@williammitchell4417One's a rock floating in the middle of Nowhere the other Is partially dead robot god
Still both are better than galafay Which depending on the day is either Completely destroyed or there's like ten of them
Unless I'm mistaten, I recently heard that Pluto's status as a planet has actually been reinstated, making it the 9th panet again. :)
It's still a dwarf planet, as are Eris, Ceres and any number of others (some bigger than Pluto). "Normal" planets have to:
1 - orbit the barycentre of the solar system (✅),
2 - be massive enough for its gravity to pull it into a sphere (✅) [take that flat Earthers! 😂], and
3 - to clear its path of other bodies (asteroids, smaller dwarf planets, planetesimals, etc., etc., etc.) (❌)!
Two out of three ain't bad 😉. You can call Pluto a planet colloquially, but not scientifically.
What you may have heard about is the prediction of a Neptune-sized (iirc) planet orbiting outside of the Kuyper Belt but still in the solar system. It's not visible and highly unlikely to be so without new developments in space telescope tech, but the maths and its effect on the outer bodies that we can track really do suggest that it exists. It's been nicknamed Planet 9 (or X by some others, that's the letter, not the Roman numeral! Just to confuse matters lol).
Hope this is of interest to you 😊
You forgot to mention how Mondas is also kinda sorta Marinus
Come on Harbo, we all know Jim Morrison was the Lizard King. He could do anything.
4:37 as an Australian it happens, no problem
A spinoff show about a separate timelord who discovers a prototype tardis made from a prototype version of a mondasian cyberman would be fun especially if it gave some tart or sassy remarks or otherwise broke tardis conventions.
Any idea when Series 9 reviews will start?
This has so much Comic stuff in it that I never read, heard of, or cared about. For me if it wasn't on TV, in an audio, or a novel, it pretty much didn't happen. Mostly because every time I tried to read a comic it tended to go off into LaLa land of errant nonsense that I just couldn't suspend my disbelief for. And because continuity fits better w/out comics muddying the waters, usually.
But well done, just One very important question: Are you saying Telos wrong on purpose as a running joke, or have you really not watched any of the TV stories where it is clearly pronounced for you?
I watch your vids to go to sleep and the best compliment I can give is that if I forget to like before I put my phone landscape I flip it back up and like then go back to watching harbo always gets the like
Drink every time you hear "Cyber"
Currently drowning, please help
Their bucket heads remind me of those drink hats people wear at football games.
Yeah i feel like theres a lot to the cybermen that isnt explored anymore. Nowadays they are just generic robots with a general "upgrade" motivation but i feel like giving them some emotional motivation makes them much more interesting
One day I won’t laugh at the word Uranus
"Most astronomers would laugh off the idea of Planet 9"
Yeah, no. There's a lot of research going on in there and there's a lot of evidence showing that something must be there because the objects in the Kuiper belt behave strangely, as if some big object was pulling on them.
do you remember Mondas pepperidge farms remembers
aaah harbo's goin into astronomy lore!! W
While there's no counter-Earth, there actually is a counter-Pluto: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90482_Orcus
don't worry, as an australian I forgive the mockery this time. also, mondas is such a cool planet, but I somehow doubt that it'll get properly treated in the main show, like how skaro being partial jungle in the post-civil war era and having TWO distinct groups living on it has been ignored since possibly even genesis of the daleks
Thals have been in audios and novels but yeah, you're right, they have not been on screen since Genesis. But don't lose hope, we got a Movellan cameo in Series 10, and I never expected to see them again. 😅
doctor who seems more interested in space babies but I wanna see more of the tin men.
Are you wearing a United shirt in this video???
Looks like it to me…. I’m which case…
Subbed!!!
kings are often ruled by queens in a way, so it makes sense
@11:17 is there any proof that the mondasian cybermen joined with the cybus cybermen, or is this your own theory? Its a cool theory either way
The evil master xandred returned to conquer universe
I want to hear more about these Cybermen on Cyber Horses -- Cyber Centaurs anyone?
Harbo is giving such strong eyebrow game
At least 30% of the words in this video contain the word Cyber. I love this goofy ass show
"Over a thousand years before Jesus was *supposedly* born"
You know he's a real historical figure right, regardless of Christianity? lol
Agreed, but his specific date of birth is up for debate. Thus, the current date we widely use is his "supposed" birthday. So he's not entirely inaccurate. 😋
There is no actual evidence to support that.
@connorwinter6420 There were contemporary Roman accounts.
About some cult leader causing trouble in the Judea province.
Then, about his followers spreading out during the reign of Nero. And when Nero needed a scapegoat for his poor political abilities, he blamed all of society's ills on this cult of "Christians."
So at the very least, there must have been some guy that had influence enough to start the whole religion.
Just like there must have been a Muhammad for the Muslims or a Guru Nanark for the Sikhs.
@@connorwinter6420 Yes there is lol
@@benjamindrayton1380 We know with near certainty that he was born around the year 0, there of course is some contention, but by most accounts and the general scientific consensus, it is approximately 4-6 BC. Whether it was 4 or 50 is irrelevant though as he said "Over a thousand years" which is vague enough for some leeway, so the "supposed" is entirely unnecessary and grammatically speaking (intended or not) implies there is doubt about his birth in general
MondaSIANS Not mondaSHIANS
Always wish they went back to it
I like this style of vide9
How many times did you say "cyber" in this video?
too many
@@HarboWholmes At least old Who didn't feel the need to call the planet Cyber Mondas or something similar...which would've been right in their wheelhouse to do.
Everyone knows the Cybermen, but not the planet they came from
Glazers In!!!
I though this was the episode review for the two parter at first then looked you only was on season 8 😂 💀
nice jersey. glazers out
I wander if the cyber mondans were like the American capitalists and the cyber faction being like the Chinese communists given they went for uniformity and the mondans a little bit individualistic
United!!
3:10 As an Aussie I don't know whether to find that funny or offensive
Nice video, hate the shirt
feck once again you are so very cute. Voice so good xx
I've never felt the need to resort to comics and novels to flesh out what was on the TV. It's generally a lot of pseudo official stuff to flesh out continuity in a fictional universe that's always been cheerfully blase about it and doesn't really need it. Trying to figure out how Earth has managed to host the Racnos, the Jagaroth, the Silurians and Sea Devils, the Fendahl, the Osirans, the Daemons and I'm sure I've forgotten some, let alone once having had a twin planet where our equivalents started welding ipods into themselves seems rather unnecessary.
I NEED TO SEE THESE CYBER HORSES NOW!