After the national tragedy, Norm walked through blood and bones in the streets of Manhattan trying to find his son. Turns out he was a Major League Umpire.
John Tumpane talked a woman out of jumping off the Roberto Clemente Bridge when he was running before a game in Pittsburgh. Permanent good guy in my book, even if he makes mistakes during a game.
He's also a decent umpire normally too, not known for ejecting people often either. Rates right around 93-95% accurate over 15 years and only 39 ejections. He is in fact, one of the good guys.
@@dim499 Did you even watch the video? I don't think it was a huge bias, it was just two diffrent catching styles and one managed to trick the umpire. I think the catcher should be to blame here.
I enjoyed this breakdown. Sometimes these guys are right to be mad, but the catching position between the two has to be such a factor for some of those calls to be the way they are.
@@rangerryda8218If anything it’s the complete opposite. There’s plenty of reasons for robot umps, but removing an element of the game that is skill based (catchers receiving) is not one of them.
@@xM40A3x Removing the element of trying to trick the umpire is a bad thing? Give me a break. If it's in the zone it should be a strike, regardless of what the catcher does. That's like arguing in favor of flopping in the NBA to draw offensive foul calls.
Yes they should but the umps heads are at such different places and angles. Its easy to complain but having been behind the plate its absolutely brutal imo to differentiate easily
@@Dwayne4007 I agree theoretically, but it seems like teams are so advanced at hunting for every advantage these days that they are working at any way they can to use human error to swing strike calls.
Adley and O's coaching staff owes you for figuring this out for them. Will be fun to see how Adley positions himself in the next game...you'll know immediately if they watched your vid when the first batter comes up to the plate.
Unfortunately I don’t think it has a lot to do with not knowing, because Adley was historically a fantastic catcher until the last couple months. I suspect he’s hurt cause he started playing like ass really suddenly.
Stealing strikes this year has been absolutely next level. I honestly don't even know what the ump is supposed to do in a situation where a catcher is *this* good at it.
The umpire is effectively calling two games because his view of what is happening is directly related to where the catcher positions himself, and if two catchers have two very different styles, then it's understandable that an umpire's strike zone would be off by a couple inches.
Watching this game was mildly infuriating because Alvarez was stealing ALL the strike calls that should've been balls (and then walking it off to end it of course), and at the time I didn't think Adley was doing that bad a job of framing. But seeing the side view with how far up Alvarez was compared to Adley and where the ump was able to be positioned because of that, it looks like it made a world of difference! I really hope this video gets into the Oriole clubhouse, I feel like a few minor tweaks could make Adley a much better framing catcher!
@@youarealooser yeah definitely a risk there and I think Adley just needs to work a bit on his receiving and framing. You can see his wrist is a little weak when the ball hits the glove and causes a little bit of movement and then he snaps it back where it should be. Plus, on some of the lower pitches he’s catching it as the glove is moving down and then has to bring back up a little. Alvarez does a great job receiving the ball as the glove is still slightly moving up and the wrist never budges. I feel like that’s the bigger factor in this situation.
Especially at the youth (and perhaps amateur) level, a good catcher can buy his pitcher at least 4 or 5 more strikes during the course of a game, and if even one of those comes at the right time in a close game, it can make a huge difference. (For the record, I've umpired youth baseball up through Sr. Babe Ruth, but not amateur ball.) The key is to frame a pitch rather than pulling it (the opposite of what you see pro catchers do!). As an umpire, there are a lot of borderline pitches I'd love to get a second look at, and if the catcher frames it well, they're giving me that second look, and in my experience it seldom works against them. The key is to catch the ball, and hold it for a split second without moving the glove. If they pull a borderline pitch, they're effectively telling me that they didn't think it was a strike, and I may be inclined to agree. At the pro level, I suspect the catchers always pull the ball for the sake of the TV audience; they know they aren't fooling the umpire. (I doubt they're fooling the TV audience, either, so perhaps I'm wrong about that!) In the example of the comparison between catchers in this video, I suspect the main difference is how close one catcher is to the plate vs. the other, rather than the direction the glove was travelling. As Jomboy pointed out, it gives the ball less time to drop. I wonder if that same catcher sets up further back when calling for a high pitch?
Beautiful breakdown. The overlays, the lines, and showing the detailed differences. The catching game has evolved so much, I showed this to my son, who is a catcher.
The framing by Alvarez is outstanding. So smooth and even the way turns his glove to be more horizontal when he’s receiving makes those lows pitches look like strikes.
Alvarez, since he’s been called up, has been so good at stealing strikes, while also not getting called for interference much at all. he was supposed to be an offense first catcher, but we got a great defensive catcher too
@@MoonstodesI’m a Mets fan but his throw out game is kinda meh. Good arm but his pop is ok, not insanely accurate. Torrens has been terrific in throwing game he’ll help him out there fs
Balls and strikes are often called not on where the ball is, but where the Ump "thinks he sees " the ball is. Wise catchers know this and will manipulate position and movement to have the ball called to favor their team. That's baseball.
Then You lose this skill from the game. The catcher position is one of the neatest parts of baseball. If you go to robo you just ust need a guy to catch balls that can mash. That sucks too.
They don't know that they are cavemen lol I mean they couuuuld have a person looking at Catcher instead of magical ipad box but To be fair what Jomboy does is like what the Oakland A's did on Moneyball, squeeze every bit out of your team.
This is a wickedly in depth technical breakdown. I love when you break out the overlays of different players. The two catchers in the normal view showed your point excellently, but when they were in their side view it really exaggerated how different the catching style is. Dude you get too good at this some team is going to snatch you up and there goes all our breakdowns.
The Cardinals taught Contreras to play forward like that this year and it got his arm broken. People acted like the Cards were nuts for making him do this. Here is proof of concept on why it's taught and not just by the Cards.
The strike zone is literally by definition not defined by the catcher, so that means this is not on the catcher, and zone needs to be defined by the umpire the same for every batter no matter what tricks the catcher pulls. The umpire clearly got wrong several strikes out of the zone because the catchers tomfoolery, which is why we need robot strike zones, obviously.
@@johnthomas1422 that'd be a fair statement if all you knew about baseball was the rulebook or an encyclopedia etc. In practice - throughout the history of the game - the skill with which a catcher frames each pitch (in order to get borderline or worse pitches called strikes) has long been a fundamental part of playing the position at the highest level. That's just a well-established fact, not my opinion. What was revelatory about the video was how stark the contrast was between these two big league catchers when seen with Jomboy's apt overlay. It was also a perfect case for comparing the two - nearly identical samples of pitches on the lower edge of the zone.
this is why i like Jomboy, most people just get mad at the umps cuz their guys never do anything wrong. most of these umps are just as much of pros as the players are, so there is usually a reason why things seem off. This was that reason, awesome breakdown
John Tumpane is a great guy. A fatal flaw that a ton of athletic umpires have is dropping too low. The side shot at 7:33 shows how low he gets which makes him think the zone is lower. The goal of the umpire is to keep most of your head above the catcher’s mask.
This kind of breakdowns make a newbie like me really wanna get into knowing more about MLB/baseball rules more and get to dive into watching full games and try to think of the game in a more analytical way. Thank you Jomboy Media for the quality content that you've been doing since the beginning!
We all just got an in depth, frame by frame, top tier presentation on the importance of catcher setup . Every MLB team needs to thank this man and show their whole organization!
Good one! The catching elbow stays high on the strike call, and the upmpire can see that even better than the mit movement. If the catcher sweeps his whole arm up, it looks like he's framing it even when he's not. Good catch, sir.
As an Os fan, Great breakdown, with Adley really starting the beginning of the turnaround leading the staff but Alvarez had a better frame. Great videos as always
Given the increased instances of catchers getting hurt by the bat due to being so close, I think there should be a line that they're not allowed to cross, like 3 feet back of the plate or something. Or catchers interference calls should be punished more heavily.
This whole video is proof we need roboumps. Seeing the skill of a pitcher to hit the zone and a batter to read the ball is way more important to the game than how well a catcher can frame a zone.
Thank you very much Jomes, this is the best portrayal of pitch framing one could ask for. No joke! Edit: I'm not super knowledgeable about technical stuff so as a Buster Posey fan I appreciate learning about this perspective, since I've heard that he's a master of pitch framing.
I never thought that catcher mattered too much. Arm sure. Bat, usually. But I never saw or thought of the impact on balls and strikes until I started watching videos like this. I thought the umps watched the ball and did not care about when and where the catcher caught and moved after the catch. It's crazy. Here, even closer the plate has a reasonable impact on site line. It's ball handling and position charisma. This video comparison really shows it and the statistics of the calls proves the rule. Thanks for sharing and explaining!
Fascinating. Difference between proactivity and passivity mindsets. Go get the strike calls versus let the pitcher throw them to you. Phenomenal break down and might be worth some compensation from the bullpen
you can't get mad at the ump when the whole point of pitch framing is to trick him. Either outlaw pitch framing or quit attacking umps. Or get robo umps.
We do not need robo umps. I’m so tired of people saying this. It just ruins the game. Makes it feel less human. Human Umpires have been a thing forever. No need to just get rid of them now. Especially considering umpires are more accurate than they ever have been.
I always enjoy seeing how different catchers use framing during games. It would be great to have some kind of control over catcher framing in MLB the Show games... if you play as a catcher.
Look at the movement of the glove as well. The guy getting strikes has the glove coming up the whole time, while for the ball call, the momentum of the glove drops back down a bit, making it feel lower like the catcher had to go down to get it.
jimmy usually i watch and im like oh that's a funny thing that happened yesterday in mlb. but i watch this and it just makes me appreciate a new part of the game.
This is a great vid to show everyone who says that the catcher can't steal strikes. Now, I too hate some of the ways that current catchers try to yank pitches up 2 feet and I think that might even hurt them. But Alvarez is only slightly pulling up and then just kinda casually keeps going up as he takes the ball out. More importantly, is that way that he sets up low and catches early. Those things definitely help even more and separate a bad receiver from a good receiver. Also, when catchers point the glove down the way that Adley does on that one catch does him them zero favors.
You could make the argument that this breakdown shows how hard or at least chaotic the HP umpire's job is (they can't control how the catcher sets up/moves/frames, among a ton of other things). That's not to say we should forgive the ump for a job poorly done. It is to say: we can see, in excruciating detail, how hard (or at least chaotic!) calling balls and strikes can be, so we should make everyone's lives easier and let a robot do it.
It never ceases to amaze me how Jimmy keeps finding new ways to show and explain the finer points of the game to the casual viewer. Just love what he is doing for the game.
I wish more fans would realize this. Seriously, every fan (or at least every coach) should try it sometime. I used to work about 20-30 games per year, and it was a good 2 or 3 years before I felt I had gotten good at it. In my last few years of umpiring I heard very little chirping about my strike zone, but that was only after working a few hundred games. Then again, maybe I'm just a slow learner 🙂.
This is why I’m not for automated umps. Framing is a skill, it’s always been an important part of catching and the goal shouldn’t be to eliminate it. Great breakdown, Jimmy!
Im not trying to be antagonistic, just genuinely curious because we have different points of view on this. Do you also think flopping in soccer or basketball is a skill? These things seem very similar in my mind. A player is trying to embellish something that did not occur to sway the official into making a call in their favor. I wouldn't mind seeing this taken out of baseball, or at least, heavily reducing its impact on the game.
@@greeneggs7 I thought about that before I posted honestly. I think framing is still in the spirit of the game while flopping in either basketball/soccer is not. Receiving the ball is a legitimate skill that’s important for a catcher to develop, elite framing is the top end of that skill. Harden and the like throwing their head back/jumping into players to get fouls is not in the spirit of the game imo. It’s a fair question
@joshuawhitley8575 I definitely think there is more skill involved in framing pitches, but it feels like gamesmanship more than anything to me. I know a huge part of the game is deception, like pitch tunneling, mixes, and even things like the hidden ball trick I like; but the difference for me is that those involve players deceiving one another to gain an advantage, where pitch framing is deceiving the umpire to gain an advantage. I'd also rather see the game prioritize and incentivize the more athletic defensive skills of catchers like blocking and throwing runners out, which feel like they've taken a back seat to framing.
you know what this is the first time that has made sense to me why some folks wouldn't want computers calling balls and strikes. This is some real baseball shit and I love it
This video is the BEST case for why we shouldn't go to computer only strikezone. Being a better defensive catcher should impact games, and nowadays pitch framing technque is more important ever. Its an art/talent that would be taken away from the game if we go to fully automated strike zones. I like the use of technology to get calls right, so im all on board with a quick challenge system that has limits to its use (ie-the challenge rules in football, or how minor leagues are implementing the K-zone in challenges similar to how tennis uses a similar version). That said, this video is a prime example of why a full time robot type umpire would take away from the game. The subtle talents Alvarez displayed better than Rutchsman in tbat game had a positive impact for his team, as it should.
This is an awesome breakdown however the ump was bad all around that night. I love Alvarez’s ability to frame I just worry he’s more prone to injury being so close to the plate
Framing pitches is so garbage nowadays it’s literally using habits that we had to break coming off of Little League and transitioning into high school in college. It looks like crap to catchers that had to be broken of the habits that are now being used. It’s so bad I don’t understand why, we think that’s fine
This is definitely a catcher skill issue. The catcher who wasn’t getting the strikes also had his glove angled down on those low pitches and that’s another reason the ump probably saw them as balls.
Goes to show what every married person knows. If someone is losing their stuff, telling them to relax is not going to solve the problem. 😂 Also, I don't follow baseball, except for Jomboy content, but I just noticed in this video: is it normal for the umpire to be leaning on the catcher like that?
@@jimwerther The umpire was also in two different areas for each catcher. One catcher, he is standing behind the plate, the other catcher he is standing behind the catcher and neither catcher was behind the plate.
@@paulstainker4082 1) yes, technique would be lost BUT catchers would have a lost less strain on them 2) with the Robo Ump, the regular ump still exists (the Robo Ump just acts as a challenge system) 3) the Robo Ump doesn't make blown calls at all
Looks to me like the umpire set up differently with the two catchers in pretty much the exact same position. He could have easily adjusted so that his head was over the catcher's right shoulder for both teams
Being closer to the player, it's dangerous because they get hit with the backswing, and sometimes when they don't hide the other hand a foul ball could hit them on it. I know that is taught in the younger levels, but some catchers have bad habits. But more to what you said, that is why veteran pitchers like Verlander and Scherzer wanted to throw to Alvarez when they were on the Mets and still speak highly of him.
As I get older. I realize how advanced baseball really is and how it is. Never thought to look at how the catcher frames pitches could be such a game changer. Sounds like the O's need to frame better
Umpire's Squint made me wonder if Norm MacDonald has a son who is a MLB Umpire.
Exactly what I thought 😂
Fucking A I just commented asking if he was Norm’s brother, hadn’t seen this comment yet. Someone gets it
No, no, no, Albert Fish.
That ol’ chunk of coal!
After the national tragedy, Norm walked through blood and bones in the streets of Manhattan trying to find his son. Turns out he was a Major League Umpire.
John Tumpane talked a woman out of jumping off the Roberto Clemente Bridge when he was running before a game in Pittsburgh. Permanent good guy in my book, even if he makes mistakes during a game.
I just looked that up. Amazing work he did on the bridge that day!!
He's also a decent umpire normally too, not known for ejecting people often either. Rates right around 93-95% accurate over 15 years and only 39 ejections. He is in fact, one of the good guys.
Just listened to his interview on Dan Patrick yesterday. What a stud
old news..at.least he is not Angel Hernandez..
Was it before or after the Pirate game? Nevermind, I guess it makes sense either way tbh.
The umpire showed great patience. Called him a piece of sh-t and he just said relax.
Tumpane is pretty good in terms of that.
Huge cuz most umpires would be well justified to toss a guy for shouting that from the dugout
The umpire is the worst, his bias got every call wrong
@@dim499 Did you even watch the video? I don't think it was a huge bias, it was just two diffrent catching styles and one managed to trick the umpire. I think the catcher should be to blame here.
@@Darkbribe09 catching styles shouldn't determine balls and strikes.
'On my other channel I do deep dives' ... then immediately goes into a deep dive.
that's the idea, "if you want more deep dives like this, I do more of them on my other channel" is kinda the vibe
I think this is from the other channel, unless it's a repost from here
Yeah that’s the point, this is basically an ad for that show
so deep in fact, that I hear Tumpane called it a strike
I already saw this whole breakdown. Im assuming that was on the other channel. This is a repost for people who don’t follow the other channel.
Corbin did not relax
I wouldn’t have either. 😄
Nor should he.
I heard this in Morgan Freemans voice!
Corb is never relaxed
"what are you pointing at me for?" Corbin asked calmly
I enjoyed this breakdown. Sometimes these guys are right to be mad, but the catching position between the two has to be such a factor for some of those calls to be the way they are.
All the more reason to have robots call balls/strikes
@@rangerryda8218If anything it’s the complete opposite. There’s plenty of reasons for robot umps, but removing an element of the game that is skill based (catchers receiving) is not one of them.
Cricket is a far better sport. They immediately figured out that wickets are more reliable than umpires
@@beaver_warriorI like players running around a diamond without a bat in their hands. I also like base stealing.
@@xM40A3x Removing the element of trying to trick the umpire is a bad thing? Give me a break. If it's in the zone it should be a strike, regardless of what the catcher does. That's like arguing in favor of flopping in the NBA to draw offensive foul calls.
The umpire was actually chill in all that after being called a POS
Who the hell is the other guy yelling at him? What a simp
@@emersondeta6804 Yeah what a whiny psycho for flipping-out over ump pointing at wrong guy. Ump even said “ok” when told it wasn’t him.
A good catcher makes a HUGE difference, especially on borderline pitches
Catchers shouldn't make the difference. Umps should know the K zone
Yes they should but the umps heads are at such different places and angles. Its easy to complain but having been behind the plate its absolutely brutal imo to differentiate easily
@@Dwayne4007 I agree theoretically, but it seems like teams are so advanced at hunting for every advantage these days that they are working at any way they can to use human error to swing strike calls.
I have no idea how this catcher has made it this far playing like that tbh
@@Dwayne4007there is no THE zone when it comes to high and low because it depends on the player height
Every catcher in the league needs to watch this breakdown
They watch film trust me they do 😅😅😅
@@Jevildurysee you say that and they fuck up constantly so how much are they really studying ?
I bet most kids in high-school turned pro athlete never imagined they would study more during their careers then most people.
@@whynot9873 ok
The commissioner needs to watch it, and draft rules to prevent it.
This the kind of analysis I come here for.
🎯
Adley and O's coaching staff owes you for figuring this out for them. Will be fun to see how Adley positions himself in the next game...you'll know immediately if they watched your vid when the first batter comes up to the plate.
Watch him set up like 10 ft in front of the batter the next time they get that ump
Everybody in baseball owes Jomboy a lot of money.
Unfortunately I don’t think it has a lot to do with not knowing, because Adley was historically a fantastic catcher until the last couple months. I suspect he’s hurt cause he started playing like ass really suddenly.
@@mog7501SeatGeek takes are of him just fine
@@mog7501 Esp SeatGeek
Stealing strikes this year has been absolutely next level. I honestly don't even know what the ump is supposed to do in a situation where a catcher is *this* good at it.
Robot umpires never get fooled
This will definitely usher in balls and strikes being called with the help of AI
Opposing batter needs to change his swing to knock some sense into a catcher so close to the plate.
@@mauallison7755 then they get labeled dirty (Ozuna, even though it's not on purpose, he just has a long swing on high inside pitches).
Then again we talking bout professionals so not surprised they are this good at it.
The umpire is effectively calling two games because his view of what is happening is directly related to where the catcher positions himself, and if two catchers have two very different styles, then it's understandable that an umpire's strike zone would be off by a couple inches.
Cricket is a far better sport. They immediately figured out that wickets are infinitely more reliable than umpires at calling strikes
Yeah it totally makes sense with his better view unblocked he made worse mistakes…. Oh wait that actually makes his blown calls worse
@@timprestel7201getting mad at missed calls low and high will never make sense unless egregiously high or low called a strike.
Understandably it's a tough job, but it is the umps job to account for the difference in where they are standing etc.
@@HarryCrackzand it’s the catchers job to finesse the ump’s impression of where it is so ya know
Watching this game was mildly infuriating because Alvarez was stealing ALL the strike calls that should've been balls (and then walking it off to end it of course), and at the time I didn't think Adley was doing that bad a job of framing. But seeing the side view with how far up Alvarez was compared to Adley and where the ump was able to be positioned because of that, it looks like it made a world of difference! I really hope this video gets into the Oriole clubhouse, I feel like a few minor tweaks could make Adley a much better framing catcher!
Well, ask Willson Contreras about the downsides of creeping forward as a catcher and make sure you want Adley taking that risk
Dude is sitting like he has a dump in his shorts. WTF is that stance?😂
trust me they have already seen it 🙂
@@youarealooser yeah definitely a risk there and I think Adley just needs to work a bit on his receiving and framing. You can see his wrist is a little weak when the ball hits the glove and causes a little bit of movement and then he snaps it back where it should be. Plus, on some of the lower pitches he’s catching it as the glove is moving down and then has to bring back up a little. Alvarez does a great job receiving the ball as the glove is still slightly moving up and the wrist never budges. I feel like that’s the bigger factor in this situation.
@@svk_5104 he needs to set up closer to the plate so he isn't blocking the umps view. Otherwise he'll continue to screw his pitchers over
This is my favorite kind of Jomboy content
Watch his "Three Things" videos on his other channel, from where this was taken. Some - not all - of his material there is brilliant like that.
whoa, can't believe Adley Rutschman is catching and batting at the same time
Jansen vibes
@@rolanddeschain3752 Was going to say that.
Ohtani got nothing on this guy
This makes umpires more understood. I never considered this take on umpires missing calls. You sir, are a godsend!
Especially at the youth (and perhaps amateur) level, a good catcher can buy his pitcher at least 4 or 5 more strikes during the course of a game, and if even one of those comes at the right time in a close game, it can make a huge difference. (For the record, I've umpired youth baseball up through Sr. Babe Ruth, but not amateur ball.)
The key is to frame a pitch rather than pulling it (the opposite of what you see pro catchers do!). As an umpire, there are a lot of borderline pitches I'd love to get a second look at, and if the catcher frames it well, they're giving me that second look, and in my experience it seldom works against them. The key is to catch the ball, and hold it for a split second without moving the glove. If they pull a borderline pitch, they're effectively telling me that they didn't think it was a strike, and I may be inclined to agree.
At the pro level, I suspect the catchers always pull the ball for the sake of the TV audience; they know they aren't fooling the umpire. (I doubt they're fooling the TV audience, either, so perhaps I'm wrong about that!) In the example of the comparison between catchers in this video, I suspect the main difference is how close one catcher is to the plate vs. the other, rather than the direction the glove was travelling. As Jomboy pointed out, it gives the ball less time to drop. I wonder if that same catcher sets up further back when calling for a high pitch?
“I haven’t been yelling at you!!” while yelling at him 😂
And calling him a piece of shit 😂. Like chill dude.
JOMBOY is the best thing going for baseball right now. Thank you!
Beautiful breakdown. The overlays, the lines, and showing the detailed differences. The catching game has evolved so much, I showed this to my son, who is a catcher.
The framing by Alvarez is outstanding. So smooth and even the way turns his glove to be more horizontal when he’s receiving makes those lows pitches look like strikes.
Alvarez, since he’s been called up, has been so good at stealing strikes, while also not getting called for interference much at all. he was supposed to be an offense first catcher, but we got a great defensive catcher too
Genuinely asking, how's his throwout game?
@@MoonstodesI’m a Mets fan but his throw out game is kinda meh. Good arm but his pop is ok, not insanely accurate. Torrens has been terrific in throwing game he’ll help him out there fs
him being so far up i wanted to know about interference as well, thank you for that little tid-bit
@@Moonstodes he loves throwing behind the runner at first
@@creature1273 He does get them some, I think more than average, but nowhere near enough to offset his framing
Balls and strikes are often called not on where the ball is, but where the Ump "thinks he sees " the ball is. Wise catchers know this and will manipulate position and movement to have the ball called to favor their team. That's baseball.
0:25 A young Norm McDonald resemblance.
Ole lump of coal
Holy shit, especially the smirk when he turns lmao its crazy
@@johndavies5582Will be a diamond someday.
If the discrepancy between the two teams calls is that noticeable, your problem is probably with your catcher more than the umpire
Definitely seems that way from the video but dang, robo umps for strike zone please! It could be a nonissue so quickly.
Then You lose this skill from the game. The catcher position is one of the neatest parts of baseball. If you go to robo you just ust need a guy to catch balls that can mash. That sucks too.
They don't know that they are cavemen lol I mean they couuuuld have a person looking at Catcher instead of magical ipad box but
To be fair what Jomboy does is like what the Oakland A's did on Moneyball, squeeze every bit out of your team.
@@amdudley83 I'd rather get a consistent good strikezone
@@amdudley83 You literally just use robo umps for replays, like every sport in the world does. Shit umpiring doesn't make the game more fun.
This is a wickedly in depth technical breakdown. I love when you break out the overlays of different players. The two catchers in the normal view showed your point excellently, but when they were in their side view it really exaggerated how different the catching style is.
Dude you get too good at this some team is going to snatch you up and there goes all our breakdowns.
Álvarez, for such a young catcher, is really savvy. That kid, as long as he remains healthy, is going to be a star for years.
At first I was thinking the ump is favoring one team over the other then jomboy just blew my mind.
The Cardinals taught Contreras to play forward like that this year and it got his arm broken. People acted like the Cards were nuts for making him do this. Here is proof of concept on why it's taught and not just by the Cards.
Perfect breakdown - this one's absolutely on the catcher. Hope someone in the organization sees this! Brilliant overlays.
I mean, sort of. The umpire still got the calls wrong
Trust me they do. Someone in the organization will see this and forward it to the rest of the staff.
The strike zone is literally by definition not defined by the catcher, so that means this is not on the catcher, and zone needs to be defined by the umpire the same for every batter no matter what tricks the catcher pulls. The umpire clearly got wrong several strikes out of the zone because the catchers tomfoolery, which is why we need robot strike zones, obviously.
@@johnthomas1422 that'd be a fair statement if all you knew about baseball was the rulebook or an encyclopedia etc. In practice - throughout the history of the game - the skill with which a catcher frames each pitch (in order to get borderline or worse pitches called strikes) has long been a fundamental part of playing the position at the highest level. That's just a well-established fact, not my opinion. What was revelatory about the video was how stark the contrast was between these two big league catchers when seen with Jomboy's apt overlay. It was also a perfect case for comparing the two - nearly identical samples of pitches on the lower edge of the zone.
@@johnthomas1422calling an age old tradition of pitch framing tomfoolery is a wild take
What a child - "why are you pointing at me!?!"
Seriously.
If anyone goes to a game where he's playing, everyone point at him.
this is why i like Jomboy, most people just get mad at the umps cuz their guys never do anything wrong. most of these umps are just as much of pros as the players are, so there is usually a reason why things seem off. This was that reason, awesome breakdown
I would think a professional umpire would be able to remember to stand in the same place
@@SlavaSesh same with a professional catcher, you are doing exactly what i said lol
John Tumpane is a great guy. A fatal flaw that a ton of athletic umpires have is dropping too low. The side shot at 7:33 shows how low he gets which makes him think the zone is lower. The goal of the umpire is to keep most of your head above the catcher’s mask.
So interesting seeing the different forms used by catchers and how the call is affected. Another great breakdown Jomboy
0:48 This is also the face one makes when they can’t see……………
💯😂
Lmao
This kind of breakdowns make a newbie like me really wanna get into knowing more about MLB/baseball rules more and get to dive into watching full games and try to think of the game in a more analytical way. Thank you Jomboy Media for the quality content that you've been doing since the beginning!
This is what I love about baseball- there’s so many little things that impact the game just enough to matter.
We all just got an in depth, frame by frame, top tier presentation on the importance of catcher setup . Every MLB team needs to thank this man and show their whole organization!
That escalated quickly 😂
Good one! The catching elbow stays high on the strike call, and the upmpire can see that even better than the mit movement. If the catcher sweeps his whole arm up, it looks like he's framing it even when he's not. Good catch, sir.
jomboy cooked with this one
Nobody does it better than Jimmy!
This may be one of my favorite detailed breakdowns ever Jomboy, thanks! Crazy to see the difference in catching styles there
Please breakdown the LMB game beef between the Diablos and Oaxaca. That game was crazy
As an Os fan, Great breakdown, with Adley really starting the beginning of the turnaround leading the staff but Alvarez had a better frame. Great videos as always
Given the increased instances of catchers getting hurt by the bat due to being so close, I think there should be a line that they're not allowed to cross, like 3 feet back of the plate or something. Or catchers interference calls should be punished more heavily.
I wonder if there will be a more defined catchers box in the next few years
as someone who caught and nerded out about studying pudge I love this analysis.
This whole video is proof we need roboumps. Seeing the skill of a pitcher to hit the zone and a batter to read the ball is way more important to the game than how well a catcher can frame a zone.
I think it’s all equally important and makes baseball beautifully imperfect
Alvarez is freakishly good. He’s literally gonna cause a revolution in the way catchers play defense.
Hopefully Tim Cossins watches this and the O's pay Jimmy for fixing their catching. Lmfao
This might be one of my favourite breakdowns ever. Very informative, thanks Jimmy!
“Jomboy coming out of Corbin Burnes mouth to do a breakdown” was not in my bingo card for today
Alvarez has quickly risen to be one of the premiere catchers in the NL
Thank you very much Jomes, this is the best portrayal of pitch framing one could ask for. No joke!
Edit: I'm not super knowledgeable about technical stuff so as a Buster Posey fan I appreciate learning about this perspective, since I've heard that he's a master of pitch framing.
You heard correctly. I miss him dearly. Lol
Cubs fan, btw.
I never thought that catcher mattered too much. Arm sure. Bat, usually. But I never saw or thought of the impact on balls and strikes until I started watching videos like this. I thought the umps watched the ball and did not care about when and where the catcher caught and moved after the catch. It's crazy. Here, even closer the plate has a reasonable impact on site line. It's ball handling and position charisma. This video comparison really shows it and the statistics of the calls proves the rule. Thanks for sharing and explaining!
so...why aren't the Orioles yelling at their catcher for not knowing how to do magic?
Fascinating. Difference between proactivity and passivity mindsets. Go get the strike calls versus let the pitcher throw them to you.
Phenomenal break down and might be worth some compensation from the bullpen
you can't get mad at the ump when the whole point of pitch framing is to trick him. Either outlaw pitch framing or quit attacking umps. Or get robo umps.
Even though this is not the umpires fault, robo umps would help a lot.
We need robo umps!!!
We do not need robo umps. I’m so tired of people saying this. It just ruins the game. Makes it feel less human.
Human Umpires have been a thing forever. No need to just get rid of them now. Especially considering umpires are more accurate than they ever have been.
I always enjoy seeing how different catchers use framing during games.
It would be great to have some kind of control over catcher framing in MLB the Show games... if you play as a catcher.
Catcher definitely made a huge difference. Got the call for his pitcher.
Look at the movement of the glove as well. The guy getting strikes has the glove coming up the whole time, while for the ball call, the momentum of the glove drops back down a bit, making it feel lower like the catcher had to go down to get it.
jimmy usually i watch and im like oh that's a funny thing that happened yesterday in mlb. but i watch this and it just makes me appreciate a new part of the game.
This is a great vid to show everyone who says that the catcher can't steal strikes. Now, I too hate some of the ways that current catchers try to yank pitches up 2 feet and I think that might even hurt them. But Alvarez is only slightly pulling up and then just kinda casually keeps going up as he takes the ball out. More importantly, is that way that he sets up low and catches early. Those things definitely help even more and separate a bad receiver from a good receiver. Also, when catchers point the glove down the way that Adley does on that one catch does him them zero favors.
You could make the argument that this breakdown shows how hard or at least chaotic the HP umpire's job is (they can't control how the catcher sets up/moves/frames, among a ton of other things). That's not to say we should forgive the ump for a job poorly done. It is to say: we can see, in excruciating detail, how hard (or at least chaotic!) calling balls and strikes can be, so we should make everyone's lives easier and let a robot do it.
Exactly. League executives need to watch this to see how easily umps can be manipulated. We need automated strike zones ASAP 👌
This is an amazing breakdown. All HS and college level catchers should watch this video.
I’m so ready for the playoffs
On savant, adley is 35th percentile in framing, francisco is 89th. Framing is so important.
WHATRE YOU POINTING AT ME FOR 🗣️🗣️🗣️
They’re a reason why despite Alvarez’s bad offensive season, why the Mets do so much better with him in the lineup
Such a talented creator, no joke!
It never ceases to amaze me how Jimmy keeps finding new ways to show and explain the finer points of the game to the casual viewer. Just love what he is doing for the game.
This is why I’m against robo umps. There’s a hugely important game within the game that attracts skill, strategy and (sometimes) drama
1:27 and that’s when he said “ Are you talking to me? You must be because there’s no one else here.”
Calling balls and strikes is insanely difficult.
I wish more fans would realize this. Seriously, every fan (or at least every coach) should try it sometime. I used to work about 20-30 games per year, and it was a good 2 or 3 years before I felt I had gotten good at it. In my last few years of umpiring I heard very little chirping about my strike zone, but that was only after working a few hundred games.
Then again, maybe I'm just a slow learner 🙂.
Thank Jimmy for providing this inside empirical look at what we see behind the dish. Catchers make or break close calls with their mechanics.
This is why I’m not for automated umps. Framing is a skill, it’s always been an important part of catching and the goal shouldn’t be to eliminate it. Great breakdown, Jimmy!
Im not trying to be antagonistic, just genuinely curious because we have different points of view on this. Do you also think flopping in soccer or basketball is a skill? These things seem very similar in my mind. A player is trying to embellish something that did not occur to sway the official into making a call in their favor. I wouldn't mind seeing this taken out of baseball, or at least, heavily reducing its impact on the game.
@@greeneggs7 I thought about that before I posted honestly. I think framing is still in the spirit of the game while flopping in either basketball/soccer is not. Receiving the ball is a legitimate skill that’s important for a catcher to develop, elite framing is the top end of that skill. Harden and the like throwing their head back/jumping into players to get fouls is not in the spirit of the game imo. It’s a fair question
@joshuawhitley8575 I definitely think there is more skill involved in framing pitches, but it feels like gamesmanship more than anything to me. I know a huge part of the game is deception, like pitch tunneling, mixes, and even things like the hidden ball trick I like; but the difference for me is that those involve players deceiving one another to gain an advantage, where pitch framing is deceiving the umpire to gain an advantage. I'd also rather see the game prioritize and incentivize the more athletic defensive skills of catchers like blocking and throwing runners out, which feel like they've taken a back seat to framing.
you know what this is the first time that has made sense to me why some folks wouldn't want computers calling balls and strikes.
This is some real baseball shit and I love it
This video is the BEST case for why we shouldn't go to computer only strikezone. Being a better defensive catcher should impact games, and nowadays pitch framing technque is more important ever. Its an art/talent that would be taken away from the game if we go to fully automated strike zones. I like the use of technology to get calls right, so im all on board with a quick challenge system that has limits to its use (ie-the challenge rules in football, or how minor leagues are implementing the K-zone in challenges similar to how tennis uses a similar version). That said, this video is a prime example of why a full time robot type umpire would take away from the game. The subtle talents Alvarez displayed better than Rutchsman in tbat game had a positive impact for his team, as it should.
This is an awesome breakdown however the ump was bad all around that night. I love Alvarez’s ability to frame I just worry he’s more prone to injury being so close to the plate
Framing pitches is so garbage nowadays it’s literally using habits that we had to break coming off of Little League and transitioning into high school in college. It looks like crap to catchers that had to be broken of the habits that are now being used. It’s so bad I don’t understand why, we think that’s fine
talk about a master class. TY I only umpired little league games but this is mind opening.
Why is framing allowed? Why do the umps not recognize a fast glove movement after hearing the catch and realize whats happening?
Because it's pretty much impossible to differentiate framing from standard receiving when you're looking down from behind
You do realize the hand is quicker right?? By the time the ump sees the glove the movement is over. The catchers are good at doing their job 😂
@@Toast2005 Fair point, idk what that pov would be.
"😭 bUT hE's CHeaTinG!!!" 😂
"😭 bUT hE's CHeaTinG!!!" 😂
This is definitely a catcher skill issue. The catcher who wasn’t getting the strikes also had his glove angled down on those low pitches and that’s another reason the ump probably saw them as balls.
Goes to show what every married person knows. If someone is losing their stuff, telling them to relax is not going to solve the problem. 😂
Also, I don't follow baseball, except for Jomboy content, but I just noticed in this video: is it normal for the umpire to be leaning on the catcher like that?
He's not leaning. But putting a hand, yes.
@@jimwerther The umpire was also in two different areas for each catcher. One catcher, he is standing behind the plate, the other catcher he is standing behind the catcher and neither catcher was behind the plate.
From an umpire perspective - & not some random clown - this is a great & impartial breakdown.
So... get a better catcher then...
Adley keeping his back completely straight while Alvarez being more forward is also a huge deal
Also why I hate robo umps, there is so much technique in this video that would be lost to a robo ump that will probably still blow calls
@@paulstainker4082
1) yes, technique would be lost BUT catchers would have a lost less strain on them
2) with the Robo Ump, the regular ump still exists (the Robo Ump just acts as a challenge system)
3) the Robo Ump doesn't make blown calls at all
What in the Angel Hernandez is going on here 🙃
Watch the video
Spectacular breakdown. Why I love this channel!
Looks to me like the umpire set up differently with the two catchers in pretty much the exact same position. He could have easily adjusted so that his head was over the catcher's right shoulder for both teams
Half of the video was a breakdown of how the two catchers were absolutely NOT in the same position… 😵💫
This is so interesting, Jomboy. Thank you for what you do. Also love Warehouse Games on Bally. You're doing things!!!
Under 2 minutes club👇
This should be seen by every catcher in the league. Very well done!
the whole orioles roster is full of crashouts
Well it is Baltimore...
GENIUS breakdown. Thank you.
Ump’s reaction to being cussed at was prrrretty chill.
Grown men getting angry over a children's game is endlessly fascinating.
I'd very much like to make millions playing hop scotch but here I am.
@@TheSolidSnakeOiljump rope
This breakdown is unreal! So well done!! Wow!
This is the most instructive video on framing I've ever seen 👍
Being closer to the player, it's dangerous because they get hit with the backswing, and sometimes when they don't hide the other hand a foul ball could hit them on it. I know that is taught in the younger levels, but some catchers have bad habits. But more to what you said, that is why veteran pitchers like Verlander and Scherzer wanted to throw to Alvarez when they were on the Mets and still speak highly of him.
As I get older. I realize how advanced baseball really is and how it is. Never thought to look at how the catcher frames pitches could be such a game changer.
Sounds like the O's need to frame better
That's the best sports analysis I've ever seen....great job, Jomboy