10:40 my favorite part is the coaches wife giving him a hug, really shows how the players were like family to them and it wasn't just her husband's job.
Siri was the pinch-runner who wagged his finger at Yadi in Spring Training when Yadi tried to nail him on first base after the pitch. After Siri wagged his finger, Yadi dared him to steal second, and your breakdown showed how well things work out when someone challenged Yadi on the basepaths.
3:34 For those who are curious, this is the rule from the 2024 NFHS Football Rulebook: (3.7.3) During the same dead-ball interval, no substitute shall become a player and then withdraw and no player shall withdraw and re-enter as a substitute unless a penalty is accepted, a dead-ball foul occurs, there is a charged time-out or the period ends. White 29 was the deep receiver for the punt. He left the field of play then returned for 1st and 10. This is a hard one to call as a Ref since you needed to know that the trick play was happening and that 29 left the field before coming back on.
This clarification makes my comment a moot point. I didn't realize he was on the field during the punt. Other than him being on during the punt, it would've been a legal play due to the dead ball on change of possession. Good catch.
@@bigpoppa1234 "there's probably also a rule" There isn't, and I'm not sure why you would just guess when the person above you has referenced the actual rulebook
If you were curious whether this play could be run in the pros, it would definitely be illegal by NFL rules: 5-2-5. Offensive Substitutions "The substitution rules are intended to prevent teams from using simulated substitutions to confuse an opponent, while still permitting a player (or players) to enter and leave without participating in a play in certain situations, such as a change in a coaching decision on fourth down, even though he has approached the huddle and communicated with a teammate. Similarly, if a player who participated in the previous play leaves the playing field by mistake, and returns to the playing field prior to the snap, he is not required to reach the inside of the field numerals, provided the defense has the opportunity to match up with him. However, a substitute (i.e., someone who did not participate in the previous play) is required to reach the inside of the field numerals." "The following are applicable to any offensive substitute who is entering the game: (a) He must move onto the field of play or the end zone as far as the inside of the field numerals prior to the snap to be a legal substitution. If he does not and is on the field of play or end zone at the time of a legal snap, he is an illegal substitute." Technically, because the player was on the field for the previous play, he wouldn't be required to be inside the numerals before getting set. However, the rule also states "provided the defense has the opportunity to match up with him." That's gonna be a judgment call by the refs how long is required to deem that a defense "had the opportunity", but I think most would agree that this time span wasn't long enough. (The Manziel play was fine because he never left the field of play.)
If the rule is 3 feet from the point of the tag he took 3 steps in running stride from the point of the tag and that made him like 10 feet from where the tag was attempted
well what is considered a tag attempt making a physical motion or have the ball in your glove bc he didnt run anymore out when the swiping motion was made but he caught the ball when he was on the. ase well then hed be out of the line
the point where Jimmy said the tag attempt was right outside the 3rd base coaches box and he took 3 running stride after that. That's where I'm going from
Lol ur making me watch this 100 times. So your right it's not when he paused it it's a little after but he still goes way past 3' from that point. 3 feet is 36 inches. Being generous that's 2 strides in a running motion. We'll have to agree to disagree. But it's a moot point because those are MLB rules so who knows what this leagues rules are
The argument about it being an "unnatural line to continue running" is totally bunk and I'm kind of surprised Jomboy argued this wasn't a clear out of the basepath.
The question is, what is considered a tag attempt? You could argue that the 3rd basemen started his tag attempt as soon as he got the ball because he reaches down to try and tag the runner's feet and trails behind his feet and never stops trying to tag him. That would mean the basepath is established right on top or or just a little to the left of the 3rd base line. If that's the case he travels much further than 3 feet.
@@BojackUnb0und according to the rules a tag attempt starts the second the fielder has possession of the ball and is reaching towards the runner. Like you said that happens almost immediately after Siri passes past third base. So clearly Siri is out of the path as he runs way way out
I think the spirit of the rule here allows this to a point. I don't think it is fair to "start the clock" literally the second the guy gets the ball and wants to put him out. I think it makes more sense to require the runner to do something with intentionality. A good bit of the being off the base line here is his slide going past third. As soon as he is up he is more or less advancing down the line. I don't hate it. Frankly, I think the rule is a bit too strict. Give them 5 feet I say.
Under OBR, the minor league manual gives us the following definition: “When determining whether a base runner should be called out under Rule 5.09(b) (1), so long as the umpire determines that a play is being made on the runner and an attempt to tag is occurring (i.e., the fielder is moving to tag the runner), no physical tag attempt is required to call a runner out for leaving the basepath.“ Simply moving towards the runner in an attempt to retire them is enough to judge a tag attempt.
I watched a high school ref stare at a defensive end as he forcibly shoved a helmet-less opponent's face into the ground after a play and ignore it. Same crew later that game called back-to-back unsportsmanlike penalties on the defense for swearing (none of the players said a word) to aid the offense cuz they had stalled. It was so obvious the refs were paid off the head coach of the cheated team consulted a lawyer. Nothing they could do.
@ ART. 4 . . . It is illegal participation: d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.
So yes his momentum took him into foul territory, but then he kept going further into foul territory in order to avoid the tag. Clearly out of the baseline. I don’t blame it though because it was a fun play.
Yup, got a bit misty eyed. Seeing how happy the coach's kid was, seeing how the player didn't mind getting intercepted by the little one, seeing how the wife gave the player a big ol' hug. Man, this is what winning celebrations should look like. Don't be a sore winner, like some we've seen recently.
Buddy... you and a couple other sports youtubers have reignited my love for sports. I can't thank you enough. Deeply, you've made a major positive impact in my life.
He ran out of the base path not because of his natural momentum, but specifically to evade the tag. Should be out in the spirit of the game any time that happens by over 3 ft.
Then watch MLB where billionaires won't try that hard to win. They need your viewership and money to pay players a billion dollars to Caddilac their base running. I'd rather watch girls fast pitch than baseball any day of the week.
The base path is only created once a tag attempt is being made As soon as the catcher got the ball, there's a line made between Siri and the catcher Siri's allowed to run up to 3 feet out that path
That isn't what spirit of the game means, you are describing literalism. He wasn't running into left field like Beltre did that one time, he was running to the plate. Even if he deviates more than three feet here, the spirit of the rule is that the runners aren't just avoiding a tag but trying to advance or retreat. He was clearly advancing here.
@@VoidiumTheEye Thank you, that is correct! The baserunner doesn't choose base path based on what is happening behind them, especially if what is behind them cannot tag them (imagine the RF making a lunge toward the runner rounding 3rd, that being a 'tag attempt' and the runner called out for taking the usual swing around 3rd), rather the runner is trying to go to home and the tag attempt only starts when a fielder has a legitimate shot at the tag which 3B did have otherwise he would have tagged him.
Being a New Zealander, I understand Rugby. And in Rugby, a player may only enter the field of play when the match is stopped and the referee has given permission. Seems like a rule that should apply in American Football so you don't have players running off and on all the time leading to confusion. Had the Wide Receiver stood just inside the sideline yelling encouragement like they were an excited reserve/substitute then they could have got away with it.
Thing is, those rules do exist in American football… that play isn’t even close to legal. I assume that the refs made some weird error in thinking that it’s not a “substitution” because there’s only ten men on the field, but substitutions are more so “check-ins” in reality, not literal 1:1 substitutions. He didn’t properly check-in to the game is a more clear way of saying it.
I feel there should be a minimum time if you’re running a substitution before you can run a play The idea that any dude can just run out and have the ball snapped quickly is so wild to me
I'm calling that steal of home out twice. If a guy gets a single can he just run through the base into the outfield slap the center fielder on the ass then make his way to second. What's the path back to first?
Yes, yes he can run all the way to right field before breaking for second. It is generally a dumb play, so it isn't done, but if he were to do so, he would be safe if not tagged out. This is basic rules of baseball.
both "controversies" are bullspit. The runner is very clearly out, and the football refs should have redone the down. This is obvious to anyone with competitive integrity.
@5:53 I really thought a player not on the field had to come out between the hashmarks to officially check in to the play. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe that doesn't apply to this league?
Your base path starts where ever you start heading towards the next base. This is very similar to when a player overruns 1st base and then advances on an over throw or whatever. They aren't considered out of the base path in that situation and neither is Siri.
Your base path starts where ever you start heading towards the next base AND at the moment when the fielder first attempts a tag. It's a matter of when and where. Not just where, not just when. Nobody seems to get that.
Two things... 1) In the football play breakdown, I noticed one of the Darien kids in the student section wearing a Rimouski Oceanics jersey. Very cool. 2) Jimmy's TGC hoodie. Fucking love The Grade Cricketer podcast.
High school coach here, I've had a ref tell me after a late substitution of our gunner on punt, that a player just has to come within the numbers. He can run in between the numbers and back out as long as he enters the number to report. Looks like he is inside the numbers, should stand
The thing I love about Siri is how respectful he is towards his opponents. He always brings that special touch of class and sportsmanship to every game...🙄
The HS football play was lame. It goes against every unwritten rule... Football is tough game, not a game of lame tricks. It goes against everything real football fans believe in.
Omg !!! 😧 - bro loved your video on Jasprit Bumrah and his bowling. Such greats editing and even cooler to see an American appreciate cricket 🏏 skills.
Loved to find this show and haven't missed much since! I do feel the base running is good though, momentum running around bases carries you far anyways. And the football I agree, should have been on the field for it to count.
2:58 - Clearly the runner was out - he ran so far off 3rd that he was in the base coach area! Can you run into the stands, up and then down the aisle and then back down to the field and touch home base?
You cannot leave the field of play. You could run all the way to the on-deck area before breaking for the plate though and that would be completely legal if a tag attempt hasn't been made.
Isn't there a rule about breaking the huddle without everyone on the field? I think the football play falls afoul of that, though he'd be fine if he was on the field when they broke the huddle.
I don't know about HS, but if I am not mistaken, there is a rule that prevents this kind of trick play in college. Something about breaking the huddle with only 10 guys.. maybe an unsportsman or something. It's a fairly recent rule I think.
The rule about staying on the basepaths is not designed to force a runner to enter a narrow "running lane" between bases. It was added to the rules to prevent a runner from trying to run into the outfield, or across the diamond towards the pitching mound, in an effort to avoid the tag. As long as the runner moves more-or-less directly to the next base, he should be fine, and he will be fine by rule.
FYI some audio issues in this export - when you dubbed the number of players on the field for the high school football play, and an echo on the college soccer commentary.
I don't know the high school rulebook, but in the NFL the rule is that a substitute must reach the inside of the field numerals, which this player did. I believe this would be a legal play even in the NFL, though it would surely get banned immediately after the game 😅
No, this is simply incorrect, the play is without a doubt illegal in the NFL and in high school. In the NFL, the defense always has the chance to make a substitution (3 seconds to BEGIN the substitution/adjustment following an indication of a clear and obvious substitution. The actual total timing is a bit more vague in reality, but they should get 3 seconds to begin, and additional time to perform the substitution). The substitution itself needs to be clear and obvious as well in order to allow the defense to be able to properly respond to the substitution. Even if not explicitly breaking a specific rule, this play quite clearly violates the inclusive language about “clear and obvious” sections of the substitution rules as there is no argument to be made that the defense was provided ample time or opportunity to respond properly to the late substitution given the time and situation. If this was legal, NFL teams would do this... They additionally don’t because the refs will keep the ball from being snapped until the defense makes their adjustments and if the clock is low, the offense will receive a delay of game penalty. This has happened many times in the NFL due to late offensive substitutions. The substitution rules overall are very clear that they are not meant to be used to obtain an unfair offensive advantage. So no, this is not even close to legal and very clearly breaks the substitution rules, along with fundamentally breaking the fundamental rules of the game itself. I mean come on, do we really even need an explicit rule saying this is illegal to know that it’s quite clearly not a legal play? Like just because there’s no explicit rule that says you can’t attach the ball to a drone doesn’t mean that it’s somehow a legal play. The refs thinking that this was a legal play is honestly baffling.
My problem with “how’s he supposed to just turn - he’s so far away and his body is turned” is that he’s in that situation because he ran so far from the base. The initial tag was applied near the base and he went ten feet over. Baseline rule is so arbitrary idk how verbiage/field lines have never been clarified for it
At my old college we were playing in our last conference game to send our schools team to its first bowl game in 15 years and we ended up going up 1 pt with 00:02 seconds on the clock in the fourth, when we kick the ball off to the other team they were throwing ball around like it was fumbleruski and ended up breaking out for a run our starting LB who was standing at the 50 ready to start the line to shake hands SPRINTED onto the field and tackled the guy. Luckily the play was already dead because they threw a forward lateral pass.
6:23 - During my brief stint coaching girls basketball, we ran a similar play. The opposition called a timeout and we had one of our girls walk to the far corner of the court and knell like she was tying her shoes. It looked like we only had four on the court, and the refs were like "where are your players?" and I said we have our team on the court. The other team imbounding and their point guard dribbled and looked around at the top of the key while our gal snuck up behind her and stole it. We did it about every other game and it was always a momentum shifter. One coach screamed "Wake up!" at their team and I just had to laugh because they got fooled too. Legal? Yes. Unethical? Probably. In sports what ends up mattering is that which is legal.
Sure, but she was still on the court and playing within the rules of the game. This play was quite clearly illegal and inherently involves doing something that is quite frankly impossible to guard or anticipate. It’s not even a “wake up” thing as there’s no way to know a player would run off the sideline when everybody is already set and watching the ball as they should.
I see a lot of people confused about the tag rule. The Runner went past 3B. He knew he was out if he tried to get back. So he smartly takes off for home. That is NOT trying to avoid a tag. That is trying to secure the next base. The base path is therefore set at the time the CATCHER trys to make a tag. From that point, the Runner does NOT move more than 3 feet to avoid the tag. Ruling is: SAFE AT HOME.
@@ButchRahman I would argue that the third baseman attempted to tag him right when the runner passed third base, so then the runner ran way out of the base path to get home
@@logandombroski1179 Yes, this is correct. Close Call Sports did a breakdown on this and said that just trying to tag a player forces the runner to establish a base path at that point. You can argue he didn't go more than 3 feet, but it's definitely a tag attempt.
Siri - Out of the path. Tag attempt is earlier than that, and his feet near home probably are out as well. Football - Late substitutions/replacements happen, breaking the huddle with too many is illegal but not too few, shouldn't be a violation.
He was literally stopped at the dirt/grass line, and when he got up he ran towards the dugout. Momentum doesn’t exist in a stopped object. That is 100% a base path violation.
I think that home plate steal is a situation that my old water polo coach described as "time to swallow the whistle" (regardless of rules around paths between bases). He made that defense look so bad, they deserve to lose the run. (Granted, that coach was describing what water polo refs would let go if there was enough white water over it when you hurt someone, so maybe don't take his advice on everything, but still…)
Rule 9, Section 6, Article 4d of the NFHS Football rule book says "ART. 4... It is illegal participation d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick." That's not just judgement or interpretation. This exact situation is explicitly called out as illegal. Refs screwed up.
The fact that enough people care about HIGH SCHOOL football to have it televised/streamed, let alone be invested in kids playing sports is crazy to me. They're just teenagers, they're a decade away from a 1% chance of going pro. Who cares?
Everytime a runner is attempted to be tagged a new base path is made, he did slightly run out of the base path on the first tag attempt. But the second instance is unrelated to the first tag per MLB rule. but at full speed and with momentum it would be really hard to call
Manziel substitution was legal because he was in the huddle in the vicinity of the ball, went in motion, set, and never left the field of play. The Darien player was never in the vicinity of the ball or even on the field of play - plus any substitution shenanigans with intent to deceive are disallowed in HS, unless the rule has changed drastically...
Hiding behind coaches is where you gotta draw the line. Outside the field, NOT A PLAYER anymore.
Haven’t seen a fiery initial avi in a minute. Please never change it
Wasn't he inside the field when the play started?
Right? Ten feet outside the base coach marker is ridiculous; would have been called in little league.
@@gordoeinstein He's talking about the football play.
Yeah. Let's draw the line on, y'know, THE LINE!
Godammit the Vermont thing made me cry when the coach’s wife hugs the player
She is for sure a great mom.
Right there w/ you
10:40 my favorite part is the coaches wife giving him a hug, really shows how the players were like family to them and it wasn't just her husband's job.
Siri was the pinch-runner who wagged his finger at Yadi in Spring Training when Yadi tried to nail him on first base after the pitch. After Siri wagged his finger, Yadi dared him to steal second, and your breakdown showed how well things work out when someone challenged Yadi on the basepaths.
Yadi is the manager for the opposing team in that play too haha
3:34 For those who are curious, this is the rule from the 2024 NFHS Football Rulebook:
(3.7.3) During the same dead-ball interval, no substitute shall become a player and then withdraw and no player shall withdraw and re-enter as a substitute unless a penalty is accepted, a dead-ball foul occurs, there is a charged time-out or the period ends.
White 29 was the deep receiver for the punt. He left the field of play then returned for 1st and 10. This is a hard one to call as a Ref since you needed to know that the trick play was happening and that 29 left the field before coming back on.
This clarification makes my comment a moot point. I didn't realize he was on the field during the punt. Other than him being on during the punt, it would've been a legal play due to the dead ball on change of possession. Good catch.
@@MasonAkersOfficial there's probably also a rule that a player entering the field cannot do so in a manner to confuse the defence.
@@bigpoppa1234 "there's probably also a rule"
There isn't, and I'm not sure why you would just guess when the person above you has referenced the actual rulebook
@@foxmcclout2665 You probably can’t stutter step either cuz that might confuse the defense too
If you were curious whether this play could be run in the pros, it would definitely be illegal by NFL rules:
5-2-5. Offensive Substitutions
"The substitution rules are intended to prevent teams from using simulated substitutions to confuse an opponent, while still permitting a player (or players) to enter and leave without participating in a play in certain situations, such as a change in a coaching decision on fourth down, even though he has approached the huddle and communicated with a teammate. Similarly, if a player who participated in the previous play leaves the playing field by mistake, and returns to the playing field prior to the snap, he is not required to reach the inside of the field numerals, provided the defense has the opportunity to match up with him. However, a substitute (i.e., someone who did not participate in the previous play) is required to reach the inside of the field numerals."
"The following are applicable to any offensive substitute who is entering the game:
(a) He must move onto the field of play or the end zone as far as the inside of the field numerals prior to the snap to be a legal substitution. If he does not and is on the field of play or end zone at the time of a legal snap, he is an illegal substitute."
Technically, because the player was on the field for the previous play, he wouldn't be required to be inside the numerals before getting set. However, the rule also states "provided the defense has the opportunity to match up with him." That's gonna be a judgment call by the refs how long is required to deem that a defense "had the opportunity", but I think most would agree that this time span wasn't long enough.
(The Manziel play was fine because he never left the field of play.)
Are we just going to ignore how if Vermont's coach just let that mustache grow out a bit more he could be Ted Lasso's twin?
The assistant was also mustachioed, it just made me giggle. BELIEVE
Controversy, trick plays, story book endings, just another EPIC week in TYMTYNPOW! Thanks, Jimmy!!!
That Vermont celebration is so good. Wholesome from everyone.
If the rule is 3 feet from the point of the tag he took 3 steps in running stride from the point of the tag and that made him like 10 feet from where the tag was attempted
well what is considered a tag attempt making a physical motion or have the ball in your glove bc he didnt run anymore out when the swiping motion was made but he caught the ball when he was on the. ase well then hed be out of the line
the point where Jimmy said the tag attempt was right outside the 3rd base coaches box and he took 3 running stride after that. That's where I'm going from
@ yeah but it wasnt when he paused it it was once he started it again the tag was a few steps after
Lol ur making me watch this 100 times. So your right it's not when he paused it it's a little after but he still goes way past 3' from that point. 3 feet is 36 inches. Being generous that's 2 strides in a running motion. We'll have to agree to disagree. But it's a moot point because those are MLB rules so who knows what this leagues rules are
The argument about it being an "unnatural line to continue running" is totally bunk and I'm kind of surprised Jomboy argued this wasn't a clear out of the basepath.
The question is, what is considered a tag attempt? You could argue that the 3rd basemen started his tag attempt as soon as he got the ball because he reaches down to try and tag the runner's feet and trails behind his feet and never stops trying to tag him. That would mean the basepath is established right on top or or just a little to the left of the 3rd base line. If that's the case he travels much further than 3 feet.
@@BojackUnb0und according to the rules a tag attempt starts the second the fielder has possession of the ball and is reaching towards the runner. Like you said that happens almost immediately after Siri passes past third base. So clearly Siri is out of the path as he runs way way out
Agreed. He was 10-12 feet out of the base path after rounding 3rd base because of this analysis. (Assuming the same MLB rule applies).
I think the spirit of the rule here allows this to a point. I don't think it is fair to "start the clock" literally the second the guy gets the ball and wants to put him out. I think it makes more sense to require the runner to do something with intentionality. A good bit of the being off the base line here is his slide going past third. As soon as he is up he is more or less advancing down the line. I don't hate it. Frankly, I think the rule is a bit too strict. Give them 5 feet I say.
Under OBR, the minor league manual gives us the following definition:
“When determining whether a base runner should be called out under Rule 5.09(b)
(1), so long as the umpire determines that a play is being made on the runner and an
attempt to tag is occurring (i.e., the fielder is moving to tag the runner), no physical tag
attempt is required to call a runner out for leaving the basepath.“
Simply moving towards the runner in an attempt to retire them is enough to judge a tag attempt.
@@MrJimi16 it doesn’t matter what you think is fair. It’s what the rule book says.
Hiding behind the coach. Not a good trick.
I didn't like it when that NBA player hid behind Spoelstra and I don't like it here either. It's not in the spirit of good sportsmanship.
@diamondthree Yeah it's cheap bush league stuff.
That football play was so unsportsmanlike, even if the refs ok'd it.
Should have been in bounds all the time instead of out of bounds. But, it cleared the refs beforehand.
I watched a high school ref stare at a defensive end as he forcibly shoved a helmet-less opponent's face into the ground after a play and ignore it. Same crew later that game called back-to-back unsportsmanlike penalties on the defense for swearing (none of the players said a word) to aid the offense cuz they had stalled. It was so obvious the refs were paid off the head coach of the cheated team consulted a lawyer. Nothing they could do.
I thought that if the offense brings a player on from the sidelines, then the defense gets a chance to make a substitution.
10:54 A genuine wholesome moment on the internet. Dont get that much. Nice job this year guys!
We ran that play in middle school. The receiver has to be on the field according to every ref we asked pre-game.
Still illegal in NFHS rules. The Manziel one would be illegal. Not all HS refs know all the rules, so people get away with it, but it is illegal in HS
Why would the Manziel one be illegal?
@ it is a pretended substitution or replacement for deception. Illegal in NFHS.
@ ART. 4 . . . It is illegal participation: d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.
@@auzmo thats not what it says and anyone can go check for themselves. why lie to strangers on the internet? is it an attention thing?
So yes his momentum took him into foul territory, but then he kept going further into foul territory in order to avoid the tag. Clearly out of the baseline. I don’t blame it though because it was a fun play.
F*cking FANTASTIC ending. I was crying. I am man enough to say that. The best to you and yours Jomboy and everyone out there.
Yup, got a bit misty eyed. Seeing how happy the coach's kid was, seeing how the player didn't mind getting intercepted by the little one, seeing how the wife gave the player a big ol' hug. Man, this is what winning celebrations should look like. Don't be a sore winner, like some we've seen recently.
Vermont's team reactions were 💯. I love the thrill of Victory, especially from Cinderella Teams.
Buddy... you and a couple other sports youtubers have reignited my love for sports. I can't thank you enough. Deeply, you've made a major positive impact in my life.
How the heck was that not off the base path 😂
How the heck is MLB paying guys nearly a billion dollars to not try that hard?
@@youropionmattersnotbecause it’s against the rules.
because of the actual rules that say what the base path is.
He just created his own base path
@@pablodelorbe9600if there is never a tag attempted the runner can go where ever he wants he could run the the warning track
The attempted tag was much earlier!
He ran out of the base path not because of his natural momentum, but specifically to evade the tag. Should be out in the spirit of the game any time that happens by over 3 ft.
Then watch MLB where billionaires won't try that hard to win.
They need your viewership and money to pay players a billion dollars to Caddilac their base running.
I'd rather watch girls fast pitch than baseball any day of the week.
Seems that you need to learn the rule then
The base path is only created once a tag attempt is being made
As soon as the catcher got the ball, there's a line made between Siri and the catcher
Siri's allowed to run up to 3 feet out that path
That isn't what spirit of the game means, you are describing literalism. He wasn't running into left field like Beltre did that one time, he was running to the plate. Even if he deviates more than three feet here, the spirit of the rule is that the runners aren't just avoiding a tag but trying to advance or retreat. He was clearly advancing here.
@@VoidiumTheEye Thank you, that is correct! The baserunner doesn't choose base path based on what is happening behind them, especially if what is behind them cannot tag them (imagine the RF making a lunge toward the runner rounding 3rd, that being a 'tag attempt' and the runner called out for taking the usual swing around 3rd), rather the runner is trying to go to home and the tag attempt only starts when a fielder has a legitimate shot at the tag which 3B did have otherwise he would have tagged him.
Being a New Zealander, I understand Rugby. And in Rugby, a player may only enter the field of play when the match is stopped and the referee has given permission. Seems like a rule that should apply in American Football so you don't have players running off and on all the time leading to confusion. Had the Wide Receiver stood just inside the sideline yelling encouragement like they were an excited reserve/substitute then they could have got away with it.
Thing is, those rules do exist in American football… that play isn’t even close to legal. I assume that the refs made some weird error in thinking that it’s not a “substitution” because there’s only ten men on the field, but substitutions are more so “check-ins” in reality, not literal 1:1 substitutions. He didn’t properly check-in to the game is a more clear way of saying it.
Shitty officiating, among other things, is what we get when we de-emphasize expertise in society. And we're just getting started.
The first tag attempt came way earlier than when Jonny said
@@andrewthomadsen5220 yeah the runners foot was on the dirt when he started to attempt to tag
I feel there should be a minimum time if you’re running a substitution before you can run a play
The idea that any dude can just run out and have the ball snapped quickly is so wild to me
There are already rules around this to prevent this from occurring. Not sure how the refs fucked that up so bad…
Love these.. big thanks to the crew who find these clips.
shoutout to coach's wife, great awareness
championship hugging fr
The coach and his wife literally had a baby on Thanksgiving like 2 weeks before this game.
@@Tristan_802 YES I HOPE JOMBOY SEE THIS COMMENT HOLY SHIT @JOMBOYMEDIA
Great celebration breakdown.
Wow Jomboy! Last segment explains why you a real American sports fan/father.
10:19 ok, that got me misty
Every time a coach finds a trick play, they add 5 more pages to the football rulebook.
This was already against the rules, the refs fucked up
@@nolananderson4782Yeah I don’t even understand how any ref could possibly think that play was ok… it’s quite clear that that’s completely illegal.
Looks like Vermont got themselves a real life Ted Lasso
As a Vermonter it was so awesome that you did that breakdown of the catamounts title game!! Thanks and happy holidays ❤
the last one did get me a bit. that was beautiful. I love sports.
Never thought I'd almost cry watching a Jomboy, Things You Missed, Soccer clip
As a former soccer player, those tears got me 🥹
Dammit man... I wasn't expecting to cry when I turned on this video. It's like watching Rudy for the 136th time and still bawling at the end.
Think we all needed that last story, loved the break down of the hugs!
Coach's wife with the hugs-by-proxy made my day.
We love you too, Jomboy! Merry Christmas!
I'm calling that steal of home out twice.
If a guy gets a single can he just run through the base into the outfield slap the center fielder on the ass then make his way to second. What's the path back to first?
Yes, yes he can run all the way to right field before breaking for second. It is generally a dumb play, so it isn't done, but if he were to do so, he would be safe if not tagged out. This is basic rules of baseball.
The Vermont segment was great . Phenomenal
Thank you so much y'all!! My life is so brightened by Jomby! Joy Sports and superlative lipreading! Thanks again!!!
both "controversies" are bullspit. The runner is very clearly out, and the football refs should have redone the down. This is obvious to anyone with competitive integrity.
Damn that was a wholesome ending anyway
Love this show. Heartwarming Vermont...
@5:53 I really thought a player not on the field had to come out between the hashmarks to officially check in to the play. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe that doesn't apply to this league?
Your base path starts where ever you start heading towards the next base. This is very similar to when a player overruns 1st base and then advances on an over throw or whatever. They aren't considered out of the base path in that situation and neither is Siri.
Your base path starts where ever you start heading towards the next base AND at the moment when the fielder first attempts a tag. It's a matter of when and where. Not just where, not just when. Nobody seems to get that.
Had no idea that Ted Lasso is currently coaching Vermont soccer.
@10:44 😭
'My faith in humanity restored'
Achievement Unlocked
“Don’t call ‘em Cinderella because you can call them Champs!” Great line!
Off the base path, ineligible receiver, I call them Cinderella not champions, bah humbug!
I thought the assistant soccer coach was gonna stab the head coach with his toothpick when he bro hugged it up 😂
I love your shows, thank you ;)
Two things...
1) In the football play breakdown, I noticed one of the Darien kids in the student section wearing a Rimouski Oceanics jersey. Very cool.
2) Jimmy's TGC hoodie. Fucking love The Grade Cricketer podcast.
“Don’t call them Cinderella, you can call them National Champs!”
That’s Legendary
Merry Christmas, Jimmy! Thanks for another outstanding year!
Dude ran toward the dugout to get away from the tag and was he at least ten feet outside the base coach markings when doing so... Lol
Coach’s wife subbing in to hug the player when the son runs up was great
That Vermont vs marshal looked epic. Gotta love it.
Just realized holding 2x for Jimmy’s intro song is the real joy of the season 0:39
The last story 🥹🥹🥹
“Sports are fun.” Jomboy is a wise man.
High school coach here, I've had a ref tell me after a late substitution of our gunner on punt, that a player just has to come within the numbers. He can run in between the numbers and back out as long as he enters the number to report. Looks like he is inside the numbers, should stand
The thing I love about Siri is how respectful he is towards his opponents. He always brings that special touch of class and sportsmanship to every game...🙄
The HS football play was lame. It goes against every unwritten rule... Football is tough game, not a game of lame tricks. It goes against everything real football fans believe in.
that was UVM’s FIRST-EVER NATIONAL TITLE in anything other than skiing!! Biggest win for Vermont since beating Syracuse basketball in ‘05 😂
Omg !!! 😧 - bro loved your video on Jasprit Bumrah and his bowling. Such greats editing and even cooler to see an American appreciate cricket 🏏 skills.
That soccer coach looked like Ted Lasso
Loved to find this show and haven't missed much since! I do feel the base running is good though, momentum running around bases carries you far anyways. And the football I agree, should have been on the field for it to count.
2:58 - Clearly the runner was out - he ran so far off 3rd that he was in the base coach area! Can you run into the stands, up and then down the aisle and then back down to the field and touch home base?
You cannot leave the field of play. You could run all the way to the on-deck area before breaking for the plate though and that would be completely legal if a tag attempt hasn't been made.
The base coach isn’t in the stands
3:34 seemed like a natural baseball play playing out and you’re right Jimmy, catcher got got!
Good dog dam....I absolutely loved the Vermont bit. Bravo!!!
Shoutout to you for bringing the first Dominican game to your breakdown.
Merry Christmas, sir. Hope you and yours have a safe and happy holiday.
Rumor has it Siri ran to the dugout since it was in the path , got a sip of water then ran back to home.
Isn't there a rule about breaking the huddle without everyone on the field? I think the football play falls afoul of that, though he'd be fine if he was on the field when they broke the huddle.
The 2 UVM players pushing each other is giving off big Ricky Vaughn/Roger Dorn vibes.
I don't know about HS, but if I am not mistaken, there is a rule that prevents this kind of trick play in college. Something about breaking the huddle with only 10 guys.. maybe an unsportsman or something. It's a fairly recent rule I think.
I’ve always thought Darien’s play is called a “Sleeper” play. I also thought it’s been disallowed since the 1950s or 1960s.
The rule about staying on the basepaths is not designed to force a runner to enter a narrow "running lane" between bases. It was added to the rules to prevent a runner from trying to run into the outfield, or across the diamond towards the pitching mound, in an effort to avoid the tag. As long as the runner moves more-or-less directly to the next base, he should be fine, and he will be fine by rule.
FYI some audio issues in this export - when you dubbed the number of players on the field for the high school football play, and an echo on the college soccer commentary.
I'm commenting so this keeps showing up in my algorithm
good lord, how windy was it?
I don't know the high school rulebook, but in the NFL the rule is that a substitute must reach the inside of the field numerals, which this player did. I believe this would be a legal play even in the NFL, though it would surely get banned immediately after the game 😅
No, this is simply incorrect, the play is without a doubt illegal in the NFL and in high school. In the NFL, the defense always has the chance to make a substitution (3 seconds to BEGIN the substitution/adjustment following an indication of a clear and obvious substitution. The actual total timing is a bit more vague in reality, but they should get 3 seconds to begin, and additional time to perform the substitution). The substitution itself needs to be clear and obvious as well in order to allow the defense to be able to properly respond to the substitution. Even if not explicitly breaking a specific rule, this play quite clearly violates the inclusive language about “clear and obvious” sections of the substitution rules as there is no argument to be made that the defense was provided ample time or opportunity to respond properly to the late substitution given the time and situation. If this was legal, NFL teams would do this... They additionally don’t because the refs will keep the ball from being snapped until the defense makes their adjustments and if the clock is low, the offense will receive a delay of game penalty. This has happened many times in the NFL due to late offensive substitutions. The substitution rules overall are very clear that they are not meant to be used to obtain an unfair offensive advantage.
So no, this is not even close to legal and very clearly breaks the substitution rules, along with fundamentally breaking the fundamental rules of the game itself. I mean come on, do we really even need an explicit rule saying this is illegal to know that it’s quite clearly not a legal play? Like just because there’s no explicit rule that says you can’t attach the ball to a drone doesn’t mean that it’s somehow a legal play. The refs thinking that this was a legal play is honestly baffling.
My problem with “how’s he supposed to just turn - he’s so far away and his body is turned” is that he’s in that situation because he ran so far from the base. The initial tag was applied near the base and he went ten feet over. Baseline rule is so arbitrary idk how verbiage/field lines have never been clarified for it
At my old college we were playing in our last conference game to send our schools team to its first bowl game in 15 years and we ended up going up 1 pt with 00:02 seconds on the clock in the fourth, when we kick the ball off to the other team they were throwing ball around like it was fumbleruski and ended up breaking out for a run our starting LB who was standing at the 50 ready to start the line to shake hands SPRINTED onto the field and tackled the guy. Luckily the play was already dead because they threw a forward lateral pass.
Jimbo, you legend.
6:23 - During my brief stint coaching girls basketball, we ran a similar play. The opposition called a timeout and we had one of our girls walk to the far corner of the court and knell like she was tying her shoes. It looked like we only had four on the court, and the refs were like "where are your players?" and I said we have our team on the court. The other team imbounding and their point guard dribbled and looked around at the top of the key while our gal snuck up behind her and stole it.
We did it about every other game and it was always a momentum shifter. One coach screamed "Wake up!" at their team and I just had to laugh because they got fooled too.
Legal? Yes. Unethical? Probably. In sports what ends up mattering is that which is legal.
Sure, but she was still on the court and playing within the rules of the game. This play was quite clearly illegal and inherently involves doing something that is quite frankly impossible to guard or anticipate. It’s not even a “wake up” thing as there’s no way to know a player would run off the sideline when everybody is already set and watching the ball as they should.
I see a lot of people confused about the tag rule. The Runner went past 3B. He knew he was out if he tried to get back. So he smartly takes off for home. That is NOT trying to avoid a tag. That is trying to secure the next base. The base path is therefore set at the time the CATCHER trys to make a tag. From that point, the Runner does NOT move more than 3 feet to avoid the tag. Ruling is: SAFE AT HOME.
He moved more than 3 ft to home 😂
@@joeramirez6126 He can run any where he wants to home. The only time the 3 feet rule matters is when the Catcher has the ball and attempts the tag.
@@ButchRahman I would argue that the third baseman attempted to tag him right when the runner passed third base, so then the runner ran way out of the base path to get home
@@logandombroski1179 Yes, this is correct. Close Call Sports did a breakdown on this and said that just trying to tag a player forces the runner to establish a base path at that point. You can argue he didn't go more than 3 feet, but it's definitely a tag attempt.
Siri - Out of the path. Tag attempt is earlier than that, and his feet near home probably are out as well.
Football - Late substitutions/replacements happen, breaking the huddle with too many is illegal but not too few, shouldn't be a violation.
He was in the basepath established when 3B reached to tag him. He was more in the typical baseline nearing home than leaving third.
He was literally stopped at the dirt/grass line, and when he got up he ran towards the dugout. Momentum doesn’t exist in a stopped object. That is 100% a base path violation.
The fact Vermont did this against Marshall is even more perfect
I think that home plate steal is a situation that my old water polo coach described as "time to swallow the whistle" (regardless of rules around paths between bases). He made that defense look so bad, they deserve to lose the run.
(Granted, that coach was describing what water polo refs would let go if there was enough white water over it when you hurt someone, so maybe don't take his advice on everything, but still…)
awesome episode
Rule 9, Section 6, Article 4d of the NFHS Football rule book says
"ART. 4... It is illegal participation
d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick."
That's not just judgement or interpretation. This exact situation is explicitly called out as illegal. Refs screwed up.
Happy new year!
The fact that enough people care about HIGH SCHOOL football to have it televised/streamed, let alone be invested in kids playing sports is crazy to me. They're just teenagers, they're a decade away from a 1% chance of going pro. Who cares?
Everytime a runner is attempted to be tagged a new base path is made, he did slightly run out of the base path on the first tag attempt. But the second instance is unrelated to the first tag per MLB rule. but at full speed and with momentum it would be really hard to call
Manziel substitution was legal because he was in the huddle in the vicinity of the ball, went in motion, set, and never left the field of play. The Darien player was never in the vicinity of the ball or even on the field of play - plus any substitution shenanigans with intent to deceive are disallowed in HS, unless the rule has changed drastically...