So CONFUSED by Mizuno JPX 923 IRONS
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- Today we look at the new 2022/23 iron Mizuno 923's , are these golf clubs suitable for high handicappers?
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The JPX923 Hot Metal Pro version is about looks - for a good player looking for more ball speed. Those players don't tend to want offset or bulky appearance. But they have prioritised distance over maybe the more artistic qualities of the Mizuno Pro line. The standard 923 Hot Metal is the model that's been working for so many players - good balance of looks, forgiveness and ball speed. Even with the strong lofts, both models are designed to launch and land correctly for what they are (eg 7 iron). The new 923 Hot Metal HL is for players with a lot of forward shaft lean, or slower swing speed players who don't generate enough force to generate the launch they need at the stronger lofts. The other 2 models will be great for most players, but primary the slower swingers don't generate the speed needed to get the right peak and landing angles. As per feel - look at our objective as best in class. We aim to make a great feeling blade. Also a great feeling game improvement model - relative to other game improvement models. Last bit - a brand new material Nickel Chromoly is worth a mention. Not that often that you see a new material in irons.
I also heard Chris Voshall talk about how this plays out at 5 and 6 iron lofts. In other words for slower swing speed players the lower modern lofts are workable through a 7 iron, but in 5 and 6 irons they can't get enough peak height. The HL model has more loft through the set, so it really helps slower swing speed players at the top end of the bag.
@Mizuno Golf I can’t wait to get my new 923 Hot Metal irons I was fitted for on Saturday! My M-Craft Omoi putter came in today and so excited to use it!
Great explanation. My Brother bought the JPX 923 Hot Metal and they are very sexy clubs for Game Improvement Irons.
Just ordered the 923 HMP as a replacement for my one year old ZX 4's. There are so few options out there for GI irons with minimal offsets and the HMP is in my view ideal. There are some of us (maybe not that many) older lower handicap folks with slower swing speeds that want to be able to work the ball. And offsets over 4 mm are pretty much unplayable for me (e.g., 7 iron offset is 5.9mm in the HL 7 iron)...poor consistency, poor control, lots of fat shots. The ZX 4 was my concession to age, thinking I'd just learn how to hit them...one year of misery is enough and at age 67 I'm not getting younger. When I got home from the fitting, out of curiosity I looked up the specs on the circa 2010 MX 300's I had played my best golf with (5 hcp). The offset on the 7 iron was .001" different, no wonder they felt familiar! But the tech in the HMP allowed that same club to be several degrees stronger. I don't know if it would be worth it cost wise for Mizuno but having a second, weaker lofted 7 iron head in the fitting box would be a really handy thing to have for club fitters (or at least a chart for carry distance at specific swing speeds). I will likely need to play the loft bending game once I get them in hand as adding a degree or 2 could improve carry distance for my low to mid 70 mph 7 iron swing speed. I know there is one video out there showing carry for the HL and HM is the same at 70 mph.
This is best comment.
I’ve got to say I’m surprised you find this so confusing. Mizuno have been extremely clever and have provided a club in the HL for those golfers with a slower swing speed to assist in launching the ball higher thus keeping the ball in the air longer and providing distance with a more traditional loft. The only difference with the Hot Metal and Hot Metal Pro is aesthetics. I know from very recent personal experience through a professional Mizuno fitting session that the Pro does not not suit me whereas the HL was a clear winner resulting in me placing an order. A few facts about me that may assist others in making a decision based on the fact that I’m 62 and have a slower swing speed with a seven iron of 76 mph. The Mizuno fitter on the day collects club head speed which then provides them with the correct data for club head choice and shaft. 👍🏻🇦🇺
I only swing from 78-82 and my fitter put me in a stiff 120g shaft for these. I swing slower now and hit straight but lost massive distance
for those who find it confusing watch the TXG video done with club designer Chris V. all explained perfectly well to the point it makes perfect sense. but if you watch that and are still confused well …
I have had a problem with the continuing stronger lofts for awhile. Finally said enough and went from my PXG 211 to my old Ping Eye 2s this summer. Every club in the PXG is 8 degrees stronger then in the Eye 2. For example the Ping 7 is 36 degrees vs the PXG is 28 degree. I find that dropping down two club gives me the same distance and in most cases appears to be higher flights. Very happy using these 40 year old clubs (Fall 1983).
This is something I think PING have absolutely nailed by providing multiple loft options for the same models. That allows fitters to really dial in a golfer’s gaps throughout the entire set, and is especially helpful if they decide to blend a set for more help at the top end. Other brands should take note.
Exactly and Cobra with the F Max
Good analysis here! Augmenting head speed in aging golfers also helped with less shaft weight, A more spinning ball will stay in the air longer also helping carry distance; this was news for me!
Just was fitted today for these irons and I must say OMG! 923 Hot Metals and just can't believe that my 10 shot average with the 7 iron was 167 yes and 3 yards off center and I suck at golf 15 years since I last played. Taylormade Stealth was my 2nd best or pick.
Love your reviews and approach to these clubs.. I do agree with you on the reason why the clubs are lofted as they are...I believe I will still be going to the Mizuno 225 Pro soon as I can get fitted for them...Thanks...
Not sure its that confusing but I guess when they leave reviewers alone without a review by Mizuno. TXG and Mygolfspy did good interviews with Vosh on this loft discussion.
I play the hot metal pro 921's and they're fantastic. I don't think the 923 offers enough incentive for me to change yet, but as my handicap drops toward single digits, I'm thinking of transitioning to more of a players iron anyway. I look forward to the review of the forged 923's as I generally love the feel of Mizuno clubs. Thanks for the honest look at the clubs, TAG.
I agree, I love my HM 921 pro
Many other TH-camrs have reviewed these also and clarified the reason for the three various sets of irons. The hot metal is a game improvement iron for those I’d like the stronger loft and distance, and the bigger head design. The pro model has always had the same loft as the regular HoTMetaL just a smaller compact head to give the same performance as the bigger hot metal but in a smaller package to appeal to those who like a smaller head design but still want the distance. The HL model is for those that have a bit of a problem getting the ball airborne, and want a game improvement iron that has the fat bottom and the performance of the hot metal series but has a bit more loft to go with the wide sole as most people searching for a game improvement iron want a chunk your club which it is, but they’ve added a bit of extra loft to help these people that have trouble getting the ball airborne with the regular hot metal be able to achieve this with the HL model. Michael Newton has a video that clarifies this wonderfully. I think it’s a great option this year and I come in Mizuno fully and if you want smaller heads go with the 221, 223, or 225
I appreciate you taking the time Wes but for me there is a vital element that is being missed and perhaps I have not articulated my point well enough in this video. I have a few questions, did slow swing speed golfers buy 921HM (strong lofts) irons? the answer is of course yes, they bought these irons on the basis of a forgiving Game Improvement iron that offers forgiveness with no mention that strong loft would cause them a problem....fast forward two years and a new model suggests slow swing speed golfers need more loft (makes sense and of course I understand this basic logic) The point is this is a change in the narrative from Mizuno that is very different from the message from all manufacturers in recent years of GI and SGI irons, I am not disagreeing with the move I am simply suggesting it is a change in the 'message'. And furthermore, the majority of the iron sets you mention are available in weaker lofts by order if standard lofts are an issue.
I see your point. I guess we will have to see what sells in the future, I certainly would not change from the 921 Hot Metal to a 923 HL as I have no issue getting ball airborne and to go weaker loft by 2* on a 7 iron is losing 6-8 yards carry, no thanks. I love my 921 HM and would not swap for anything. Your video on them being a “no brainer” is 100% accurate. Keep up the great work on the channel, I enjoy your videos as I’m in the same age group and hit about same distance so I can relate to user outcomes on club reviews. Thankyou!
It’s important to note the 923HL isn’t just for slow swing speeds….if you read their literature, it’s for slow swing speeds who hav a lot of forward shaft lean, thus having trouble getting it airborne. These would be perfect for someone like me who has a very good swing with good shaft lean, but now in my mid-50s and having had both hips replaced, my swing speed has slowed…the HL would be ideal to help get the ball airborne more properly for me…I’ve always played Players Irons, blades, then cavities, then player distance irons…but now, even with those, my height has suffered…currently playing T200 irons which flight the ball fairly high, but I still get a landing angle closer to 40 with my scoring clubs due to slow swing speed and shaft lean…The other models are better suited for higher handicappers who tend to scoop the ball…At least that’s what I’m seeing…we’ll see what happens when I test them!!
Callaway was first in weakening lofts for the most forgiving irons, the Rogue OS Lite, with the same reasoning that fewer and fewer golfers have the swing speed to even use a 6 iron with lofts closer to a 4 iron which is a problem given that fittings now usually are restricted to a 7 iron. Very good Mygolfspy video interviewing Chris Voshall of Mizuno which cleared up some things for me.
The Callaway Rogue ST max OS is 28.5 🤷♂️
The Lite version 7 iron has a loft of 31.5 according to Callaway’s web site.
@@haakonstorhaug1606 it does but majority of their GI and SGI irons have strong lofts which is the point I make, the industry has spent several years strengthening lofts in the GI market and now we are weakening, I’m not suggesting it’s a negative but certainly against the message, Mizunos HM is a GI iron and loft is 28.5, why not weaken the loft in this model rather than adding an additional range?
Good discussion. I think manufacturers have realized they’ve maybe reached the limit of strengthening lofts as many iron sets now start at 6 or even 7 iron. Maybe Mizuno is just trying out this new model, without touching their best seller by far, which is the HM. Keep up the good work! Always enjoy your videos.
Cobra have been doing it a while too with their "senior" range
I think the confusion starts with using the name H/M Pro in a game improvement club but it’s probably smart from a marketing standpoint. It gives that particular model an interesting vibe. If it were called simply Hot Metal then the larger one could be the Hot Metal XL and finally the Hot Metal HL. Though I understand your point about the lofts though as others have pointed out Mizuno has done a good job getting videos out ahead of the launch to clarify
I currently play the 921 HM and I truly believe they are the best irons in the game improvement category. I especially like how well the Fli-Hi hybrids play and seamlessly blend into the set.
Great review as usual. I tend to change irons every 3-4 years and was thinking of these irons. The most relevant thing you said for me was the clicky sound they made. I currently have a set of hollow bodied irons and hate the noise and lack of feel they produce. Having played golf for 50 years + at a reasonable standard my expectations are higher.
Look at PXG, my friend. The Gen3 & Gen4 are at great prices and just as good as the newest ones.
I can see something in the discussion, I have a set of Maverick Irons in one bag and set of Inesis 500 Irons in another bag.
Mavericks are stronger loft by 1-2 degree, but the Inesis 500 Irons pound per pound go further by 10 yards.
I had it down to a better COG and MOI allowing the sweet spot area to be greater.
The Mavericks feel great but just fall shorter. My full 6i with Inesis is 190 yards, Mavericks 175 for a 6i.
I’ll be looking to upgrade my current JPX 919 Hot-metals set this spring. Top of the list will be the 923 Hot-metal and HLs.
TXG did a great review to answer your question. It’s all about keeping launch but getting spin rate back up
They work awesome! I might get a split set, maybe the Pro from Gap to 8 then HL 7,6,5
I’ve just been fit for the HL version. Went in looking at the Stealths and hit these amazingly better. Fit for 4-GW with Dynamic 105S. Launch was amazing and the feel and forgiveness was above the Stealths. Now the wait for my build time…. Please be speedy!
How do you like your Mizuno's now?
Indeed, Andy, it is a reversal of what we have been hearing, but as someone who has had to loft up (I launch/ hit my irons too low and thus, I bought P790's this year @ 2 degrees weak), I love their effort. What I hope they work towards is their overall goal of making the HL better and smaller, i.e., with that size, shape, profile, less offset that we would prefer.
Totally agree and loft is always a bell as we have always advocated on the channel, I can’t understand how many cannot see this is a reversal in the message in recent years, I believe it to be a positive move but it is a reversal
Absolutely nailed it Mizuno with the 923 HL, went for a fitting for Ping G430 irons yesterday and we’re ok tried Paradym and Stealth the went to the 923 HL wow, amazing trajectory compared to the others Inver sound and feel and more forgiving ordered a set 5-Gw was sure going in would order Ping 6-50’. May fall in love with this game again, had been chasing distance and therefore stronger lofts which definitely don’t suit my swing speed and age, 15hcp and 65 years old. Makes me wonder what previous fitters were doing, can’t wait to get these a month at least 😀😀
This makes sense. I have JPX 921 irons changed loft to 2 degrees weak. I play senior flex shaft. I wasn’t able to launch the standard loft enough. Now It’s perfect and the same distance but they stop quicker 😁
Hi Andy, it's all realative to an individuals ability to deliver the club and produce a strike.
I have always played with a muscle back or bladed head and usually have had the lofts strengthened by 1.5 - 2 degrees to delivery desired flight.
I would say the HM Pro will be less inclined to have hot spot flyers and also deliver more consistent distance control.
Loft adjust should be subject to fitting.
Interesting comparison. Confused me too. At the moment not in the market for new irons.
What are u using for the shot tracer?
Jpx 923 HL has very similar lofts to the JPX EZ from 2016. Mizuno believe that loft is the friend of the high handicapper and they would struggle to hit the stronger lofted versions regardless of centre of gravity.
A few brands have done it for their irons aimed at high handicaps. Callaway and cobra give more loft in their “SGI” irons
Mizuno has done a good job. I played the 921 Pro set and struggled. The correct set for me is the 923 HL as I need height in my shots, because of a slow swing.
Do you know if the jpx923 forged has more bounce than a pro 225?
You did miss the point.
Interesting video Andy. I wonder if it’s time to move away from the traditional iron labelling of 5, 6, 7 etc and start just labelling them with loft numbers? I know this doesn’t tell the whole story with an iron but after all, we’re used to identifying drivers, woods and wedges by their loft as opposed to traditional numbers so why not get into more of that mindset with irons???
I’m unsure why we need 8 varieties of Mizuno iron. We’ve got the 221, 223 & 225… I understand the Hot Metal option but who are these irons targeted at?
It's pretty straightforward really Mizuno are saying (and I believe them) that golfers with slower swing speeds struggle to get the ball airborne particularly when they play Irons with strong lofts. So in response to this, they have launched the HL range with weaker lofts that also have plenty of tech to help the ball launch nice & high for the slow swingers👍👍
absolutely mate
@@brynsuperblue52 👍👍
@@banditbaker1675 just been for my fitting for high launch today gained 20 yards on my 921 hot metal crazy
@@brynsuperblue52 that's an amazing pick up in distance
I am see their point
My i500s are traditional lofts 34 7 iron ect , I have a slow swing speed and naturally a low ball flight player and a more forgiving club and being able to get the height I req sounds a good idea to me
I’ve gamed the 921’s HMP for two years and recently went and hit the 923 HMP forged, they’re the same club, which confused me, then I started looking at the lofts…. Then before I started to do mental math gymnastics days later I stumbled across your video….. I try to discuss things that confuse or intrigue me about the game of golf to my wife and she just stares at me like I have lobsters coming out of my eyes. But your confusion was beautifully mastered in this video and it might be one of the funniest things I’ve ever watched. Thank you sir!!
Mizuno R&D discovered that most golfers needing a game improvement iron struggled with less lofted clubs. The HL’s combination of forgiveness and more loft is brilliant. I also prefer a more compact head shape but after seeing how well the HL performs I’m going to give them a try.
I play the 919 Hotmetals which are now a few years old. . The lofts on the 923's are between 1 - 2 degrees stronger from the 4 - GW.
Increasing lofts/club length makes sense for achieving similar ball flights with lower swing speeds.
I don't see a problem with strong or weak lofts. The player will adapt to the distances. I have hit the 923 hot metal pros, and they will be the next set of irons I buy. I wouldn't have a problem with the hot metals or the hl models.
I didn't expect the HL to be the larger club; I was feeling it would be relatively the same size as the others with more traditional loft. Hmm
I just bought the Hot Metal Pro and and they are well suited for my swing speed of 80 MPH for my 6 iron. First impressions on the course are great, 😀. I believe that HMP are for low to mid HCP.
Did you get fitted for them? If so, what shaft flex did you get?
Would you buy these without being custom fitted ? Surely the fitter would resolve this. I am a returning golfer my 12 year old mizuno mp 7 iron had 34 degrees of loft. I have just bought cobra ltdx irons 26.5 degree 7 iron . I even ended up with the 5 iron and 7 wood at the same loft but that's what produced the correct gapping. It is now getting too technical not to be fitted.
It can be confusing with model numbers with Mizuno. But I totally get it with the MP series and the JPX series naming cycle that they can't break and call it one thing like other manufacturers to suit a range of nit-picky players with one release.
My PXG gen4 xp’s were weekened 2 degrees for better launch
I’ve got 919 hot metals that I’ve turned into a HL model by weakening the loft 3*, 7i loft is 33*, my ss is a little over normal but I trap the ball so extra loft is necessary to get the ball in the air. I do think the hmp should have weaker lofts.
Pro on the left, hl on the right, reg in the middle. That’s my guess based on the face size but couldn’t tell the offset difference
Andy, i'm old school. I want a forged iron with little offset. Not a forged iron face. So i'll wait for the Forged and Tour reviews next year.
An iron named HL is launching higher, this is confusing you?
It seems the intended result; clear to me.
They look pretty much the same ish as the last models or do i need to visit specsavers
the hl is designed simply get the ball up in the air...its not about distance. Callaway did something similar last year.
TBH I didn’t get it either at first, but they’re simply aimed at different golfers or potentially set blending. The fact they all went similar distances for you, but with very different ball flights kinda proves the point. You already know the HMP and HM, the new HM-HL is aimed at newer golfers or your Dad, who’s maybe swinging a bit slower these days, wants distance, launch and would like some extra spin and stopping power on greens. Even for better players, you could play a HM-HL 5 iron rather than a hybrid, 6-7 in HM, 8-PW in HMP. Or once the Forged and Tour models come out go even more crazy on blending. It’s a positive sign that golf is growing, with more options for new and older golfers.
I'm 71 and my swing is slower my 7 iron is 28 degree and I lose distance because I can't get it high enough so higher loft would help.
I'm with you. I have played 919 HM since they came out and wanted something a little smaller and more toward a players iron These lofts do NOT work for me at all. Ill have to buy a new gap wedge if I get 923 Pros.
I second or 3rd this!
Hi Andy, arecthry better tha byhe PXG 0211 2CORX
I’m following a bit but to me it makes complete sense. The HL is weaker lofted with a head that promotes a higher launch. Weaker the loft on the club the more loft with the ball.
I got fitted for the 921 hot metal pros to replace my i500's after waiting ages for them I really didn't like them . So i got the pxg xcor2 fitted the same as my i500's great clubs . They go further stop better and feel better than the 921hmp's.
I hit all 3 at a fitting yesterday and felt the difference between the 3. I hit best with the standard HM, the HL was too lofty and reduced my ball speed, and the pro was cleaner when you strike it right, but definitely not the same forgiveness as the HM based on size
I see your point. I would have liked the Pro to be weaker. I need the higher loft, to get a higher flight and more spin. Pro is a better looking club to me. Callaway did the same thing with the Mavrik line.
I personally cannot hit an iron with less than 25 degrees of loft. When I bought my iron set, I bought 6 iron through GW, because the 6 iron is already 26 degrees of loft. Below that is hybrid territory for me. I have yet to meet the first beginner golfer capable of hitting an iron with 19 or 22 degrees of loft. So actually the HL lofts make much more sense to me for an iron targeted at higher handicappers.
They all fly the same distance with varying lofts is for ease of blending the sets. For instance someone might buy the HL in the 3-5 irons because they are easier to launch. Then you go with the hot metal in the mid-to short irons and then maybe the Pro in the wedges. In the past you had the lofts adjusted for gapping purposes, but that would significantly change the bounce and thus the playability.. NJow the gaps are dealt with even though you have different lofts. It really is simple to figure out.
I agree with mizuno in there marketing, I find a lot of new golfers with speed and need help but struggle with launch and spin these hl would help.
I also agree, so why not increase the loft of the HM model?
@@TheAverageGolfer because most are obsessed with distance wanting to hit one less than there mate. I've actually gone more loft and spin and I've got same distance but better distance control, launch and spin but I think I'm in the minority
I’m on my second set of HM pro… 919 and now 923. Played mostly Ping I series before and I find the Mizuno quite similar but a bit more helpful and more forgiving which I prefer as I’ve gotten a bit weaker and slower these days.I think for a GI iron these are the best looking and feeling irons on the market.
I only play up to a six iron these days and then transition into 4 and 5 hybrid ( currently Srixon ZX5 MK2 ) although I’ve played the Mizuno Fli Hi ( which are part of the JPX line ) and like them nearly equally as much as my current gamers.
I think the logic is a little like how Bryson (extreme case) sets up his lofts.
7i @ 25* and
PW @ 40*.
The point is to control spin and descent angle for the faster swing speeds.
Slower swing speeds don't benefit from a 28* 7 iron they knuckle at 3000rpms into a green at a 35* landing angle. They need help with launch and spin.
4 models have been released in Japan. To me he 223 forged looks the best, a little stronger lofts.
Andy, definitely go look at the my golf spy video on the new JPX hot Metal. It will clear up your confusion, on the why.
Basically what they are saying is, with the industry doing the loft jacking, an average golfer doesn’t carry enough speed for irons over the 7 iron.
Yes there maybe a little run out difference, but basically your carry distance for the 7 iron and up are a going to be about the same.
I don't believe that anyone would expect the hot metal irons to have the sound of a forged, but how do they compare to other game improvement irons? I have tested several game improvement irons and thought the Mizuno irons sound better than most.
I agree. I’m a beginner using 25 year old burner lcg, and am in the market for new irons. I got fitted for irons and then got a free promo fitting for the new hot metals. The hot metal stood out to me with feel and the sound vs other irons I’ve tried out(rogue, stealth, sim, etc). I’m probably going to pick up the HM when it drops
I have hot metal pro 921. At 28 degree loft I won’t be updating to the new one.
I live in Asia where all 5 JPX 923 models have been released, so I've been fortunate enough to try them all. Here's my own summary:
High speed (don't need forgiveness) -> 923 Tour / 923 Forged
High speed (needs forgiveness but like smaller offset and size) -> 923 HMP
High speed (needs forgiveness but like larger look for confidence) -> 923 HM
Low speed (needs forgiveness and high launch) -> 923 HL (higher launch and higher spin comes loft AND further back CG from offset, thicker sole, longer hosel)
High speed means faster than 73 mph 7-iron (or 87-90mph driver)
Hope this helps
For me personally, I hit the 923 Forged and 923 HL best.
923 Forged - 6 yards more carry over 921 Forged, with pretty much the same height and and descent angle. It has phenomenal solid feel, and I can feel the launch is much "hotter".
923 HL - Feel is not as good as the Forged, and flies shorter. But every shot just wants to go straight. Dispersion was the tightest. This is perhaps the most consistent club I've ever hit.
Today I'll compare the 2 again and decide which one to get. Long/workable vs Super consistent flights.
The iron order is from left to right std , HL , pro. Tbh can’t see the confusion my golf spy had an interview with Chris Voshal and it all is very clear. From mizunos data from the swing dna they realised that players with slow swing speeds gain nothing much from crazy lofts beyond 6 iron. So they produced the HL for that golfer. Simples
comment was at the beginning of the vid as I thought you were going to say the penny had dropped.
Why not add loft to the Hot metal? Who is that now aimed at?
@@TheAverageGolfer HM and HM Pro are aimed at the higher speed players. They can swing irons with less than 28* and still achieve high launch and longer distance. While lower speed players, if they play HM Pro will find that the 5, 6, 7 irons all go the same distance. Try to listen to Chris Voshal here: th-cam.com/video/kVPc6fgGps0/w-d-xo.html
@@TheAverageGolfer probably the guy who swings at a good speed and wants a friendly looking iron so gets the max out of the hot metal.
It also gives the club fitter more options which has to be good for everyone. I play the pro 921 only just got them and I really love them. So won’t be changing anytime soon.
@@awchiu so two models aimed at high swing players is my point, why not just increase the loft of the HM?
@@davidfletcher6836 I just don’t understand why two models have 28.5 and aimed at ‘faster swing speeds’ , why not just increase the loft of the HM?
It's about CG and workability too, not just head size, swing speed and trajectory. The pro has the most workability, and the smallest sole, the other two work on flight and carry for medium and slow swing speeds. After that, I just want to know my carry and total numbers....
And the 921 vs 923 - the really significant change is that Mizuno have redesigned the leading edger for steeper swings.
Pro, HL & HM
@@robertjohnston3794 My order was actually HM for mid, HL for slower, but yes.
Andy, I understand your confusion, but I can also understand Mizuno's reasoning. All I'll say is something you have mentioned in the past. Numbers on clubs don't mean anything anymore. It all comes down to how the club looks/feels for the golfer and the gapping numbers at the end of the day.
The middle one seems to me to be the HL. I'd say the one on the right is the Pro.
To me I think this is a mix of what you have said and what the comments below read.
Up until recently, the cure for being a worse golfer was to get more distance and forgiveness. Add loft, bigger face etc. Leading to the loft creep where a 7 iron of 15 years ago (namely my MX900s @34*) is halfway between a 8/9 on these sets.
It might make people feel better but really its a con. Loft is what you hit, not a number stamped on the club.
I think this has led to a split in GI players where the stronger lofts were generally helping those who maybe play less often or are just more inconsistent but still have a reasonable swing speed, but were hurting those who have a much slower swing speed and cant get it up in the air. I cant imagine what the flight of a modern '5' iron at low speed is like. Probably a grass cutter!
The whole tech improvement to add loft but still get launch has pretty much been put to bed by mygolfspy and their robot which saw no noticeable difference despite the claims made by many manufacturers.
I'm looking to get a new set and retiring my trusty 900's and will be looking for what is now called 'traditional loft' clubs, how condescending! Yes I might gain 25-30 yards on a modern 7 because that is actually my 5 iron, which, strangely enough I already hit 30 yards further....
I dont think Mizuno are reversing message like many have taken from this vid. More that they have understood, like some others that these silly lofts after hurting a subset of players. Not all GI players are slow swings, some will be fast and will gain from stronger loft, others will lose. Good to see some sense coming back into the market after years of this dog shite.
My bottom end on Mx900s was 46PW - 52 GW - 56SW - 60LW. Perfectly fine.
Now you need - 42PW - 46 GW1 - 50 GW2 - 55 SW - 60 LW to have sensible utility.
All companies have been doing is effectively conning people with distance by adding loft and removing a club from the top of the range, having to add it back into the gap wedge sector to cover the now 42-54 PW to SW gap.
Highly recommend, watching there my Golf spy video/podcast as it explains all this very well
Gotta b honest the hl suits me I'm getting a better flight I flighted the pros and standard lower now some might argue the hl went to high but I'm hitting and holding greens more often
The way CG's and weight distribuion works now I just completely ignore lofts. With how high a ball launches off these irons the lofts HAVE to be that low. The HL model to me is just for someone that might swing slower or have trouble getting the ball up in the air. I am glad that the other models dont have the weaker lofts because they would just go straight to the sky for a player like me that already struggles to keep the ball on planet earth anyway.
you can also order theses irons 2 degrees weaker or stronger.
The Mizuno's HM HL's OR the 101 Takomo's?
U can get the lofts custom fit on all these 2 degrees weaker so no issues really
Nice irons. I got my merch I have ordered and just want others to know it's top notch stuff!!
That’s great to hear Edward, thanks for support 👍
@@TheAverageGolfer Appreciate the relevant content!! Hope you and Hannah are doing well!
Hi loft is lofted higher! What is confusing about that.
Absolutely nothing, the point is why not increase the loft of the current HM?
I’m not exactly sure what you were trying to achieve with this review. I am considering getting fitted for a set, so I was looking for a proper examination and help with deciding which model, but I’ve been put off going for the brand by this.
You wouldn't be confused if they were PXG!
Truth
True.
Pretty simple in that slower swing speeds can't get anything useful from an iron with less than 27* of loft, so if you have a set with a 28* 7i, then you probable bought a 6i and 5i that are of little use.
So do you think there isn’t any irons in the HL line up that are lofted stronger than 27 degrees? …….there is so the theory isn’t pretty simple after all
Club manufacturers don’t give a crap what works for high handicappers. They’re interested in what sells and distance sells.
That’s why we’ve seen the loft jacking these past several years.
In this case I agree with Mizuno. The HL is probably what a lot of golfers need and they’re marketing it so they can get more sales. :)
I thought the 921 Hot Metal and 921 Hot Metal Pro were the same lofts and the Forged and Tour models were more traditionally lofted. The biggest difference between the HM and HM Pro were the head size with the Pro being the more compact of the two. I tested the 921 Hot Metals and ordered a set in early September and when my clubs arrived (last week) I was surprised to see they were the 923 Hot Metals. I took a few swings, using the Almost Golf ball, in my back yard and they felt the same as the 921's so I hit a couple real balls with them and they felt every bit as good as the 921's but as you said they (923's) sounded clicky (that could just have been the hits I made) but the balls flew every bit the same as the 921's. I don't have the yardage I hit the ball but it looked the same as the 921 when I was testing new irons. I tested the Ping, Titlest, Mizuno and Taylormade and the Mizunos felt way better than the other brands and to me they looked much better and swung easier making me feel much more confident over the ball. Now I need to get some lessons so that I can play my best golf.
Yeah if you want a small head just get the JPX forged. If you want big just get the regular hot metal. I have the HM pro. Look very big in the golf bag.
I played Mizuno irons for many years they make beautiful clubs they feel amazing they look amazing I have always felt that they are not the most forgiving however. For me personally right now PXG will remain in my bag I’m always open to testing and checking out all the new tech when it releases to compare what I have
If you're interested in where the clubheads are made it's worth noting that only the forged heads are made in Japan. The cast heads are made in China. Purchased JPX 921 hot metals a couple of years ago and was disappointed to see made in China stickers on the clubheads. Only the shafts were made in Japan. That being said, I've been satisfied with the clubs.
Andy Where's the Fred Perry top from please
Best question here.
@@greendog2130 a reply would be nice 🤣🤣
@@petekenny3774 keep waiting
I think it makes perfect sense but only for a specific type of player. They are called “high loft” not super length. In my experience, slower swing speed players don’t have long enough distance gaps to really even benefit from loft jacking. They regularly hit shots with multiple different lofts that don’t vary in distance very much. I know for my father whom has had multiple back surgeries and 2 fake hips, he just wants to get the ball in the air every time and as long as his 5 iron is capable of getting to 150 yards he is happy. He pretty much maxes out at that range so loft jacking no longer helps him but help getting the ball in the air more does help him significantly. He has added more wedges to his bag so he can have full swings at more close range distances since his days of trying to get max distance are over.
As someone with “fake” hips, I take offense to that comment! They are artificial hips!!! LOL…I think it’s very important for people to read the entire background of why the HL came about. They left the lofts weaker because they are geared towards not only slower speed swingers, but those who have more forward shaft lean. Traditionally, these line of clubs are always geared towards the high handicapper, implying someone who doesn’t make great ball contact, or scoops at the ball, thus needing the club to generate the speed they lack from not being able to compress the ball…HOWEVER, some, like me, who used to be able to compress the ball very well with a higher swing speed, doesn’t anymore, yet we still have good swings with proper forward shaft lean…so, I don’t need jacked up lofts with low CGI/MOI to get the ball airborn. I need the CGI/MOI to be more towards the middle of the face, which is where the ball contacts if you have proper shaft lean…(those who don’t have good shaft lean tend to hit it lower on the face, hence game improvement irons put the weight as low as possible). But, since my club speed is much lower now with my “fake” hips ;), and degenerative back disease, game improvement clubs don’t suit me because I’m not hitting it off the bottom of the club…As a result, Mizuno is trying to create the club for the good swinger, but slower swinger…not necessarily a high handicapper due to LOFT (Lack Of Freakin’ Talent). I haven’t tested these yet as I’ve been using player distance irons in recent years, but these just might be the next set for this upcoming season if they do what they say they do! I do like how all the lines look similar so you can blend sets easier…something the MP lines misses with the 223 looking like an oddball between the 221 and 225…wish they had made those look more similar when I could play that kind of club…
@@petegalindez9961 haha I of course mean no disrespect calling them fake hips. Those are my old man’s words not mine! Everytime he hits a good shot he says “not too bad for a guy with butt cancer and two fake hips.” I wish you many more great years of playing with your artificial hips! My dad recently switched from “normal” game improvement irons to a full set of hybrid irons (Launcher XL Halos). He loves them.
While it may be the case for the hot metal series irons, my 921 Forged feel lovely soft. I say that as a former MP-59 player, which is the opinion of some to be the softest iron ever made. But I have heard the hot metal irons are a bit clicky and chunky feeling.
All in all, I don’t think Mizuno has really hit it out of the park with the 923 series, as there is practically no difference at all in the forged and Tour irons, aside from a 1* loft Jack on the forged.
69 yo here and the 923 HL are perfect 👍 if I can’t hit a 4 iron disguising one as a 5 doesn’t help🤣🤣Dude you definitely missed the point🤣
Decent, I personally don't like the look of HL , but it performs the best in my eyes, only because of height and decent. I game the pro 225 because I got older and lost some speed, and I definitely get an extra 10 yards from my 30 degree 7 iron, well I should because the set I switch from the Callaway TCBs. 7 iron is 34 degrees, confused no doubt ,why don't they just call the 225 7 iron 30 degrees a 6 iron. never mind, golf's confusing enough, hahaha , Thank you for being a realist, and bringing this out in the open, interesting to say the least.
I'm not really sure why you are so confused about the HL version. It stands for High Loft. Therefore, the loft is higher at 31. Makes sense to me...
With 2024 just around the corner should we expect a new Mizuno JPX 925?
Mizuno should have gave the pro the traditional specs. So we can use our 5 and 4 irons again 😂
Pretty soon club manufacturer marketing departments will be recommending irons that come with little dioramas of famous WWII battles tucked in the cavity backs. Frankly, after trying the new miracle clubs over the years I find little difference between the new and old for distance and dispersion. Flights are a little lower with the newer ones, which can be good or bad.The few extra yards from lower lofts are neglible from a practical standpoint.
Why WW2?
You have to get away from it doesn’t feel or sound like a mizuno, these are not forged per say clubs. They are a game improvement iron. They are meant to fill the gap with different golfers which different swing speeds etc. By changing the metal composition they have been able to go to traditional lofts without losing distance and or therefore maintain height etc. I think the object is to allow mixing clubs in your bag from the complete line with a good fitter.
Yeah, not confusing at all. It gives fitters great options for all kinds of players without having to manipulate lofts through bending, which can affect bounce/turf interaction. Slower swing speed players who de-loft at impact get fit into the HL. Those with scoopier actions through impact get into the non-HL version. Not so hard, eh?
I think you have missed the point a bit Andy. Mizuno have looked at their data, and seen a gap that needs to be filled, because we all deliver the club differently. The point is, don’t try working it out yourself - go get custom fit.
Oh, and Mizuno aren’t the first to do something like this… Callaway have done similar with Mavrik range. The std Mavrik 7 iron is 27 deg, the Pro is 30.5 and the chunkier Max is 30 deg. And then you have Ping with there power spec and retro spec. I guess the only thing in those 2 brands is you can get the smaller head with less offset in a higher loft (which you prefer). Maybe something Mizuno will add in the next iteration… could we see 4 different Hot Metal models in a future JPX925 line up I wonder??? 🤔