Shame, Trauma, and Toxic Positivity - 3 Ways Out
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Shame, Trauma, and Toxic Positivity - 3 Ways Out
In this video we cover: Shame, Trauma, and Toxic Positivity - 3 Ways Out, toxic positivity, shame, mental boundaries, path, attachment, highly sensitive person, triggers, survival strategy, therapy, childhood trauma, toxic family systems, boundaries, inner child, , c-ptsd, ptsd, toxic parents, narcissistic abuse, healing, abusive parents, emotional abuse, childhood ptsd, repressed memories, hsp, hypervigilance, narcissistic parents, emotionally abusive parents, child abuse, narcissistic father, childhood emotional neglect, abuse, narcissistic mother, alcoholism, scapegoat, genogram, siblings, dissociation, trauma
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
2:10 What is Toxic Positivity?
6:13 Connect With Me
7:50 Examples of Toxic Positivity
9:37 Three Therapy Ideas
9:50 Therapy Idea #1
12:24 Therapy Idea #2
15:17 Therapy Idea #3
18:25 Final Thoughts
20:39 Outro
Learn more about Patrick Teahan,
Childhood Trauma Resources and Offerings
➡️ linktr.ee/patrickteahan
MUSIC IS BY - Chris Haugen - Ibiza Dream
• Chris Haugen - Ibiza D...
Editing service
www.jamesrara.com/
⚠️ Disclaimer
My videos are for educational purposes only. Information provided on this channel is not intended to be a substitute for in person professional medical advice. It is not intended to replace the services of a therapist, physician, or other qualified professional, nor does it constitute a therapist-client or physician or quasi-physician relationship.
If you are, or someone you know is in immediate danger, please call a local emergency telephone number or go immediately to the nearest emergency room.
If you are having emotional distress, please utilize 911 or the National Suicide Hotline
1-800-273-8255
"We had to be compliant for the parent's benefit because they actually couldn't handle parenting." Thank you! I needed to hear that.
wow powerful statement. This is so true!
It's hilarious the fact that my mum had me to "prove" she was a good mother, but all she did was pass on all her traumas and insecurities onto me with some new anxieties on top.
This rings so many bells for me. At 68, I am finally finding myself, still with a little way to go. Thanks Patrick.
@@jdprettynails ditto dudes!
I was forced to go to church twice a week and now I'm not even religious and I respect my mom's religious fervor but my problem is we have generational trauma and she doesn't have to face it because she has Jesus
Spiritual bypassing
My family does this. Denying the elephant in the room is okay if you keep smiling and speak positively.
You can put suger over shit but it's still shit.
Amen! It's also a way of cheapening and losing intimacy with the most important people in your life, when you refuse to face the short term discomfort of having a difficult but necessary conversation about the elephant.
😆
ooohhhh - that is well said
and you do what they want and follow their commands and there wont be consequences.
Toxic positivity = toxic about other peoples experiences + positive about your own agenda. I love that definition!!
Thank you! I needed to see this
Oooh, that’s a VERY good one and I’m going to screen print that and help me remind myself that I’m a good person and not a bad one. I get the toxic positivity of everyone around me, family included. Bloody hard fighting daily with I’m battling with, but it’s worse when I hear this stuff. It’s like I don’t know and it’s very invalidating and consider it a put down, a guilt-trip, a shame inducer - that’s what I feel personally when it’s done to me….i don’t think it’s meant to deliberately hurt or belittle me, it’s probably from a not understanding perspective, especially the being on the spectrum - the funny thing is, my family, there’s a lot of them on the spectrum as well, take my two brothers for example, so you’d think they’d sort of understand. I’m also an empath and it’s not a good thing really in this state, I soak up others trauma, and stress. It exhausts me…so I isolate to regulate and then I get the “you’re pushing us away” you’re not answering the phone or texts” like as if I’m doing it on purpose- bloody frustrating as hell.
Sorry for rabbiting. All the very best and hope and peace to those that suffer, please take care 🙏☮️
"Trauma also results in struggling to have developed an identity and selfhood." I'm 47 and I don't know what I want to be when I grow up.
🙋♀️ I’ve been guilty of toxic positivity without realizing it. My mother passed away when I was a teenager. It always bothered me when friends complained about their mother. I didn’t realize at the time that I was denying their reality by saying “at least you still have your mother.” I know better now.
So true, same here. I honestly think some of it comes from pure enthusiasm and self-absorption. I’m sure I was incredibly obnoxious when I first found yoga🙂 whether others benefited from my sharing was probably secondary to my need to share.
Yeah. That's cool. Someone like you probably messed me up with religious jargon when I was younger. People don't really know moms till you live with them.
we all do it, it is a wake up call, isn't it?
Wow, that was a powerful realization , thank you.
@@craeddock really this is over the top, you know nothing
An idea I have found incredibly useful, is that something can be true and unhelpful at the same time. Advice can be technically "right" in some ways, but also not what I need right now (or ever). That releases me from having to label someone else's beliefs as wrong or incorrect, which always felt icky to me.
When I think of the dimensions of human constitution I think of our different aspects as being on a continuum and you could associate a dial with it.
There’s a zero spot, or a sweet spot, that is the optimal balanced level, and it’s possible for the aspect to be turned up too high or turn down too low. When it comes to positivity. Ex. Some people need to be a little more positive and have gratitude, and other people probably need to get a little more in touch with reality and face their pain and authentic emotions. We are all so complex, and so different … everybody’s dials are at different settings, which means there’s no one-size-fits-all solution for any problem.
@@psycherevival2762 totally understand
Yeah, another person's 'right' doesn't necessarily match your own 'right'.
Just Rachel :: you said it so well - thank you !!
Funnily enough I've gotten this from the other side, trying to help a friend. I absolutely know I'm right because I've done it, but I'm making him take leaps in the space of weeks that it took me (at least) months to make myself. Unhelpful, and also creates a distrust in the other person because they're just not ready to hear that yet and as a result have a deep sense that you're wrong. Difficult to go beyond that again
My mother spouted that immortal line too: "You chose your parents" after I was crying and complaining about her treatment of me. Translation: I take no responsibility for my abuse of you as you chose to be abused, because you chose me as your mother".
When I was seven, she had upset me to the point that I said that I wanted to kill myself. She replied that there was no point because karma would make me relive my whole life again and again and that she would always be reincarnated as my mother. In other words, I couldn't escape from her ever, even in death, for eternity. The prospect of having to relive my life again horrified me.
When she was elderly, I brought up her 'views' on reincarnation/karma, etc. and she breezily exclaimed " Oh that, I never really believed in that....." !!!!
Another classic case of the narcissist and their use of beliefs and religion as a form of abuse and control.
Goodness, that was some brutal abuse. I hope you see through lies when you encounter them. Thank you for sharing
@@Ikr2025 I actually notice my mother dismissing everything that has to do with her behavior when I want to ask her something about it. It‘s sad to see her doing that.
@@Ikr2025 + Thanks! Yes, complete denial.....but then only sometimes, that's what's so twisted and creepy about narcissists.
My mother would pretend to be so sorry sometimes and would admit the abuse of my sister and 'regret' the effect that it had had on her personality (covertly-murderous borderline/narcissist).
At the time, I thought that she'd learned something from her mistakes, but it was all a con, a manipulation.
It totally creeps me out now to think of it. All the sabotage with a smile, the baby-talk 'fondness', the occasional compliment (covert envy) when behind it all was utter hatred and perversion.
@@Ikr2025 that‘s a really frustrating situation to be in. I must remind myself how this game works in order to look through her and not cause myself further pain .
Once you know where your triggers are, it gets easier to sense anything
@@rapunzelmane9592 I know this is kind of beside the point you were making, but how exactly does covertly-murderous borderline present itself? I only have some experience with the more self-harm "inclined" type...
This just made me realize something funny from my own memories- when you said “even whether it was safe to not want pepperoni on pizza”- I didn’t know what kind of pizza I liked until I was 30 years old!! Every time I had delivery pizza, it was ordered for me, and it was the same generic fits-all varieties: one cheese, one pepperoni, one “everything”. I knew I didn’t like everything pizza, and cheese was boring, so I must be a pepperoni guy, right? But ironically, I had never ordered pizza for myself because of anxiety/trauma/ASD. I figured it was too expensive, too complicated, and had a high likelihood of failure.
Well, during the pandemic I became familiar with food delivery apps, and did ok with those. And one day this year I was sitting thinking “gosh I really want a pizza… but I can’t order one because it’s too hard.” And then I :^)
“Wait a second- I surely can!” And then I realized… I had zero idea what I actually want on my pizza, because wanting something was never safe, expressing it was never convenient or allowed, and getting it was never more than 50% likely.
Turns out, I quite like chicken, sausage, and yes, pepperoni on my pizza ¯\_(ツ)_/ took me until 30 to find that out!
I read through all the paragraphs just to find out what toppings you did like
Thanks for sharing. You made the pizza reference more sensical to me. We are defaulting like we were told to in childhood because it was easier to just go along, aren't we?
I think I too do this with a lot of my current things in life. Do you know the meme from the movie The Notebook? The "what do you want" meme? It's about choosing dinner. I think it's very relatable. At 44 and only just starting to recognize and accept my traumas, I just realized I don't have many ideas about my own likes and this could very well be why.
Wow, I have a lot of issues purchasing trips (plane tickets and hotels). I wait until the last minute because I can’t make a decision about it.
Hey congrats on finding your preferences.
This is so often me! And was always the case when I was a child.
*You are the only person I've heard discuss narcissistic emotional abuse and actually know what you're talking about*
Unless you've had a narc mother/parent you have no clue what their victims are going through! The problem is all the counsellors I've seen don't have the first clue. One counsellor said to me "has your mother been diagnosed with NPD?" No of course she hasn't! As far as she is concerned she's perfect. The only emotion my mother shows is for herself. I'm 61 and still struggle massively with CPTSD due to the emotional abuse. I love listening to you Sir. Sending blessings from England 🇬🇧 🙏 ❤️
I had 2! So lucky... :)))
The funny thing about npd is that by definition a narcissist is bound to exist in unbelief that they have any issues whatsoever because in their world they are a practically perfect individual. Everything they do is correct and justified according to them. So they refuse help and never admit they have serious mental health issues.
@@TejubescDM I disagree. I was the poor kid at a very 'elite' college. I can say the trauma parallels the wealth. My trauma was visceral, like a dog fight or pigs fighting for slop. When I visited the wealthy kids homes, it was like an ICU, or funeral home. It was viceral only in the cleanest, no-expense spared way. But it was there. And equally as heart breaking.
@@TejubescDM Thanks for the clarification!
Wow, are you me from the future?? I've had therapists tell me the same thing about my mum. I doubt myself constantly about the tiniest thing. I still have it ingrained in my mind that "if it hurts, it's the truth." So if someone upsets me, I can never get angry at them, because after all, "if it wasn't true, they wouldn't have said it."
My mum's favourite mantra "be the bigger person." I was never allowed to get angry, upset or ask for fairness. I just had to be the bigger person and let it go, give in, let them have their way. It's easier than fighting.
My mum would also dismiss any trauma or anything upsetting with "it happened in the past. Get over it.
Or "that didn't even happen TO YOU, why are you upset?"
Experiencing empathetic sadness or pain always made my mum angry with me.
I need a new mantra. Maybe "an opinion is not a command."
"be the bigger person" then expects you to act like a fawning child. The bigger person is the one who has courage to be themselves even when it's inconvenient lol
We are intitled to our own emotions.
@@Mushroom321- I'm learning that now. But I still automatically feel shame whenever I experience any negative emotion.
@@Mushroom321- that's a good mantra
I'm so sorry you've been put through that garbage 🥺
People can only meet you at the level they’ve met themselves. - Unknown
You consistently bring up moments that are relatable. It’s so validating. Toxic positivity people engage in gaslighting all the time. It can make for a very alienating and disorienting reality. Thanks for this high quality content. 🙏🏼
Well put!!
Yes! Love that quote.
Awesome comment 💗
Tocic positivity is may be the worst form of gaslighting and "inverse" stonewalling. Is seems so sincere but it so confusing that you can't describe how it feels for you. Ultimate tool for the enabler
It's also really hard to decide if the person doing it really thinks they're being helpful or whether it's being dismissive etc. and if you tend to doubt yourself and not them, you'll probably assume the former.
"Be glad. A fake version of you has been received and accepted." I see it simply as an emotion versus reason thing. The emotion says that you should be happy but the reason is denying reality.
So confusing!
I respectfully disagree with "worse" though, because I only have toxic positivity and no abuse, and I think someone like Ariel Leve had it much worse. It could perhaps vary based on the situation and what other issues are going on?
That’s a really good point. Ppl who gaslight in any form want to continue living in their false reality while trying to make others think their reality is false.
From personal experience, I've found spiritual people often use their spiritual beliefs in the same unsafe and unhealthy ways fundamentalist religions do, even though many of them are trying to escape their own religious childhoods. I have both been shamed and been the shamer as someone who used to be involved in the spiritual community. I'm still unlearning the self-righteousness common in organized religion and spiritual groups
You would need to find something that cuts both ways. Actually Christianity is supposed to be like that. It's just been twisted into a "get out of jail free" card.
You “need” nothing!!! It’s perfectly possible and fine to live a good life without religion or spirituality.
4:29 I was told this by my mother…that I chose my parents before being born. Implying my upbringing was a “lesson” I chose and therefore a positive thing or something I wanted.
I also think when people downplay our situation by saying “look on the bright side” or “count your blessings” it’s because they don’t have the capacity or interest in being present or authentic in that moment.
My mother told me that as well. So many times. Especially when I became a teenager and started questioning her. Even if it's true that every child chooses their parents in another dimension - that doesn't mean it's wrong to go no contact with them in this dimension.
Maybe the lesson could be "how to detect and protect against abuse" and the blessing could be that you made it through the lesson
Yes I just received a sympathy card from an Aunt regarding my Narc Dad’s passing that suggested I be thankful that he “rescued” me from the situation I had been living in with my mother. He abandoned my younger sisters and I when we were very small. He created the situation. It was in fact my Aunt and Uncle who sent the first social worker to our home. My Dad stopped by once and saw the terrible living conditions we lived in and never came back or send a social worker. My Uncle had to ask my Dad if he would take us. I can’t give him credit for “rescuing” me because he was so angry when he got custody of us, it was clear he didn’t want us to begin with.
I‘ve realized that saying the negative thoughts out loud, helps me acknowledge them. Why would I cover them up with good thoughts , if you can say that they‘re good.
They‘re jus neutral but make you feel a certain way. Say it, feel it and take it slow.
Being authentic means to me accepting my current experience in all its ugliness. In some cases it can be pretty ugly, disgusting, you name it. But it‘s fun to know that you can let go of the thoughts once you‘ve let them be in your presence:)
@@ARA-ee9yr 🙌
If girlfriend's mother had said that to me, I would have liked to respond by saying "maybe, ,in the astral plane, I chose to have the kind of parents that I would need to walk away from"
Maybe we choose those parents so we would actually know how strong and powerful we are when we cut ties with our abusers
@@lori3670 and @Sarah Bartek Yes! I agree with the spiritual belief "we chose our parents before birth", but in my case (dysfunctional family), that's how I understand it: the spiritual lesson is that I need to learn how to love and to respect myself, turn my back on what's harmful to me, and recognize "fake love" for what it is. I wouldn't be on that path if my parents were healthy, and in a way, I'm now almost thankful for my difficult childhood, because I wouldn't be who I am otherwise. But I understand it can be difficult for people to hear this while they are still very much in the middle of the suffering.
This is a GREAT talk. One thing about having no mental boundaries w toxic parents is that there is also no consistent reference to reality. It's like growing up on mr. Toads wild ride because they don't think in anything but self-referent loops. If it's not from them it's bs. Everyone but them is dumb, slow, incompetent, etc etc and that is so outside the frame of observable reality that i for one just resigned myself to the assumption that everyone is like that and no one will ever corroborate my perceptions. Then i made some friends who weren't certifiable and the world began to make sense. Leaving home is like leaving an asylum.
I appreciate you sharing that. Thank you
Toxic positivity seems like a way for other people to signal they are not comfortable with the information and use it as a way to distance themselves. Maybe we take that as they are not safe people to share with. No doubt, the trauma journey can feel isolating, but we really are not alone. It seems practically everyone on Earth is living out trauma through various reactions. Some safe, some most definitely not.
I find most are not.
Some are, but it's just one of the possibilities. Some want to feel good about themselves that they "helped" you without putting in any real effort. Some want to be in a position of power over you. Some are deeply in denial about their own crap and apply the same denial to you. Etc.
That’s such a good point honestly. I notice I have a bad habit of defaulting to toxic positivity with my sister when she’s venting to me about something and I don’t consciously realize that whatever she’s venting about is somehow upsetting me or I’m not in the mood to listen. It’s really just a way of trying to get the other person to be quiet and stop talking about whatever they’re talking about without telling them outright that you don’t want to hear it. I’ve been much better about catching myself lately and noticing when I’m not in the mood to be on the receiving end of her venting, so I can communicate that without shutting her down with unintentional shaming and invalidating.
@@Ash-vu1et I really like what you said here. It encapsulates exactly what I was thinking, thank you!
@@Ash-vu1et That is a good point. It can simply be a polite way to indicate someone doesn’t wish to engage in the conversation for whatever reason. Often it can be for a good reason as some people do vent too intensely and frequently and that can be draining, negative & exhausting to listen to. Or people can raise topics that are awkward and poorly timed making the listener uncomfortable. Or they could simply just not be on that wavelength and uninterested in that depth of topic with that person.
The problem seems to be for the person who feels the need to share a problem (requiring trust and intimacy) who is then rebuffed with polite (toxic positivity) which further the feelings of invalidation and shaming to the one sharing. So the key is choosing the right person and timing with which to share true feelings with. And that is the difficulty.
Other possible toxic positivity statements:
“Well he was only violent with you that one time, right?”
“He hasn’t done anything like that since then…”
“He bought you that (big expensive thing), that was nice!”
Great video as always! Thanks for validating and bringing clarity to these types of experiences! I’m finally making some progress toward standing my own ground, separating the good from less-than-helpful without either completely glomming onto or rejecting people/ideas/possibilities etc.
I knew I had a good therapist because she would emphasize that I don't need to do everything she suggests but just what resonates with me. ❤️ This was really powerful to hear because all my life people told me what to do.
I have a new therapist & when she told me to keep “doing me” and ignore my mom’s tantrums when I have successes, I also realized she was a keeper as my therapist! I mostly vent and she listens but I’ll take it. I hope to dig a little deeper with time. It’s only my second session. ❤️
I wish I could find and afford good therapist😢
@@joy8801 have you applied for state assistance like medicaid? If you dont qualify you can actually find therapists that may take payment plans you just have to research it and or go to your county community website and search for free or reduced counseling I hope that helps
Yes, the moralistic tone when people spew toxic positivity feels so gross. I feel it in my legs, which maybe is an old "flight" response because I literally want to run away from that garbage. My SIL is a fountain of toxic positivity blended with a very shallow form of fake feminism (corporate feminism?) and exhorts me to "GET OUT THERE AND LIVE YOUR BEST LIFE" with little texts from time to time even when she has no idea what's going on with me. All this communicates to me is her belief that I'm doing life wrong and I should be more like her. These people really do make it "nice and neat" for themselves as Patrick says.
The meta-messages in toxic positivity:
“My belief should be your belief.”
“I’m superior to you.”
“You encounter difficulties because you are defective.”
“I encounter difficulties because I’m noble and unique.”
Not so positive once unpacked...
Wow, you hit the nail on the head! So what's our clap back?
@@stefaniesondo-benz2646 That’s a good question! I’m no expert - I find that it’s important to not get pulled into their frame. If I go to them with a difficulty that they are responsible to address, and they make a toxic-positive comment, deflecting the responsibility back onto me, I might say something like “that’s interesting. I don’t know about that. Would you like to [insert what I’d like them to do]?” How they respond reveals their actual priority (is it just to avoid taking responsibility?). If I had simply gone to them for sympathy and they make a toxic-positivity comment, I mentally tag them as “not available for sympathy”, process my disappointment, and don’t go to them for sympathy again. Have you tried these?
@@cultivarcultivar no, but I will try asking them back, thank you. Maybe also "and so how did you help yourself with any outside help, that's really amazing" 😇
When I was 12 or 13 my oldest brother (by well over 10 years) asked me "are you happy" I was stunned, my brain was spinning: 'what what, doesn't he know, doesn't he realize.' He knew my mother's rages, he knew what we endured. Not once did he ever say 'I know your life is hard, I want to help you when you are 18 to get away from this.' Just anything. All I could answer after a long pause was "yes." A total lie. I was miserable. In my 20's he dropped this gem on me regarding the bio parents "their marriage fell apart about the time you were born." Wow! Even if that was true, I never needed to hear that. I haven't spoken to him in years and years. I literally can't stand him.
This struck home for me, I’m like a chameleon . I am so indecisive and it drives me mad. When I talk to my sister about our mother she tells me to stop as mother is dead and can’t defend herself and anyway, she doesn’t recognise the mother I talk about. I then feel guilty just in case My feelings are wrong and I am being mean about her. I feel I need validation that the trauma I felt as a child really did happen and it ruined my life in many ways.
I’ve found this in the abuse survivor community. I’ve found people will empathise with mine/other experiences until someone says they, for example, have BPD. The stigma is real. As well as men speaking about abuse, which is why I’m glad to have found your channel. Being gay is another layer which comes with more toxic positivity or not willing to see the situation for what it is.
Often had my negative emotions towards abusers weaponised and shame me for those emotions, that I’m playing the victim or not being forgiving enough because of, for example, my parents’ own trauma.
Also that victim blaming feel of “I’ve been able to forgive my family so you should to”.
They deny the difficulty while pretending that it's you who are denying the possibility.
As a certified life coach I’d like to show support to anyone who has been hurt by a coach’s clumsy techniques or lack of proper education. Coaching is pretty much unregulated, so be very careful with whom you engage in the coaching world. Coaches who aren’t trained therapists have increasingly been learning quick techniques that are meant to handle a client’s emotional issues, including trauma. This is completely wrong and, imho, abusive. As a coach I greatly value my own, ongoing work with a good therapist. Coaching is appropriate for helping people get concrete goals achieved; it is not a substitute for therapy. In fact, good coach training helps coaches understand how to identify clients who have deep psychological issues, and who need therapy before - or alongside - working with a coach. In fact, if I sense there might be emotional issues keeping the person from succeeding, I ask whether or not they’re in therapy. If they are, I ask if they’ve discussed whether they’re ready to work with a coach. I ask them to get their therapist’s ok before we work together. If they’re not seeing a therapist, I refer them out. There are people who are considered “not coachable” at times. No coach should take advantage of someone’s mental health issues in order to make money.
42yo still struggling with this internal dialogue. It delayed therapy for years. I protected, deflected, minimized, intellectualized the trauma away. I am feeling deep guilt writing this.
I am 57 and still struggling. This is not bragging, actually embarrassing... I wish to support your courage and strength being here.
Toxic 12 step recovery sponsor who says they’re healed and stopped generational dysfunction- yet their life presents as the opposite. Couldn’t see it for years bc so stuck thinking they were the authority figure and I must be wrong. So many red flags, so much spiritual toxic positivity. Especially when I started telling her my inner child trauma and she would say “you know they did the best they could and you just aren’t there yet so keep work on forgiving”. My parents were horrifically toxic - abusive, neglectful, almost killed me. Today I’m grieving how they took my voice from me or ever getting to say no or being fed appropriately. Thank you for sharing this video!
I am so very sorry you had this experience with your sponsor. I hope you find a good one because they are out there. I have had the same sponsor for ten years in Al-Anon and she is like the mother/sister I never had.
Perfect timing!
Just the other day I was explaining to my mom how incredible it had been that a corrective meeting at
work that I’d been stressing about for 3 days had ended up being really low key and super encouraging.
She came back at me with “well you know that’s all pride telling you your mistakes are such a big deal, it’s all just pride.”
Then when I clammed up because I didn’t know how to respond to that she condescendingly patted my leg and said “okay, or it’s anxiety” in a ‘sure honey, Bigfoot’s definitely real’ tone.
Sorry, long story short; I needed this today.
There's a rule with narcissists, and it goes that no matter what you think, it's wrong because they did not come up with it. I have had my mother explain to me many times with a straight face that "sometimes two plus two is five" after I had used two plus two as an example of agreeing on at least some basic thing.
Thank you! After watching this video I realized how I’ve learned to discern what works and doesn’t work for me. It’s only taken me over 60 years! It’s never too late!
I appreciate this video very much. I have a lot of childhood trauma that includes abuse, neglect and not having even one safe adult in my life for my entire childhood (no extended family, no father, no one but my abusive mother with undiagnosed personality disorders). I have a friend who I care about and who cares about me, but her 'advice' is always so triggering. She grew up with a lot of privileges (her family had money) and a lot of caring adults around her so she doesn't really know my situation at all, but likes to tell me that i just 'need to get over it' and that i have a wonderful opportunity now to be a different person. I understand it is coming from good intentions, but it always feels like she saying that my trauma doesn't matter and that my difficulties in life are just the result of not focusing on the positive and wanting something better. That I am not trying hard enough to heal and reach my full potential. I have sometimes thought about ending the friendship because it always so triggering to get these messages, but I don't have very many people in my life and live in a place where it is very difficult to make new friends (language barrier).
As Patrick said in another video, “the just get over it people are full of shit!”
People who don't have to deal with toxic people don't understand. It's sad. I hope you find friends who can validate your feelings.
@@brooklynnyc did you not just do what she is saying is triggering??
Tricia, I'm so sorry. I too had no safe adult. I'm convinced that adults abused as children are one of the most marginalized groups there is. Yet we are invisible and everywhere. People who were not abused as children, developing humans, have a privilege they will never understand.
Try talking to her first about how it makes you feel. 🙂
I have heard some people go a step further in distancing themselves from the pain and suffering of reality by saying we choose our entire life based on what lessons we need to learn
Thanks for saying this. Victim blaming is rampant.
Had so many similar experiences.
"It could be worse" is how I survived my childhood and young adulthood but it was I who was telling it to myself. I still do
ALL DAY LONG! That is what I DO do as well! I LOOK for reasons to feel that I have been "lucky" to survive! I am PISSED at everything I didn't think I DESERVED but i am SO LUCKY to survive?
Yes, this! Every time some family member in their wisdom would down play my childhood abusive situation with that crap I would want to scream back at them "yea but it could be so much better!"
I wish I would have known early in my recovery not to trust every therapist or counselor. Just like you said, I didn’t trust my myself and was dependent on these people until I was healthy enough to trust my instincts. Instead, when I would disagree with the therapist (diagnosis) or otherwise I felt I was helpless/hopeless and doomed to suffer.
I think there are a lot of toxically positive life coaches. A lot of people who make empowerment their life’s work seem to peddle in toxic positivity. A friend of mine that went way back with me became a women’s empowerment coach, and suddenly she was superior to me on ALL subjects, felt the need to be an authority in everything, and never allowed any perceived “negativity” because she was all about empowerment. So I had to be as well.
It became obvious that she was pushing a sort of denial, which I wasn’t on board with. And that the friendship needed to be stepped back from in order for me to not be constantly bombarded with strange demands that I completely undo any positive change I had done through my own work (therapy etc.)
This was at the same time that my sister came back from a trip to India and announced that yoga was the answer to all of life’s problems, and every time anyone in our family talked about anything on social media that she saw as a way to give advice, she totally shoved her whole new Eat, Pray, Love opinion of “Just do yoga” onto them. So that was fun.
when you talked about "you chose them in the astral world" that's what my father always told me. He was very abusive probably psychotic as my therapist told me when I disscribed him. My mother is narcissistic and I'm realizing that at my 27's. She was never emotional available for me. My father repeated that so often, and the violence surrounding me was such that I started to believe I must have chose that to endure pain no other could. that I deserved it like it was a kind of test for the other life. That I chose that violence, pain and sadness.
I was 6yo when I thought that and stuck with me till very recent.
When people says toxic positivity to me either from childhood trauma or chronic illness (things like, you are not that bad, at least is not cancer, you will get better let me prey) I just wish that for a second they live what I live when I have a panic attack, a flashback, how I cry in the corner of my room, how my body feels crushed when I'm in pain, how with all that I still go out and smile. I now tend to distance from them... including my mother
Wasted decades trying to build a connection with abusive parents, in part because the friends I confided in said things like, “I’m sure they’re doing the best they can” and “No parent is perfect” and “They probably just have a different love language from you.” 😮
This made me doubt my gut instincts and made me keep trying to build some kind of connection. At age 55 I’m done with cutting endless slack. But it makes me sad that I wasted decades of my life, and everyone who I considered a friend gave me such awful advice. No one was able to say, “That’s horrible behavior. You don’t deserve that. No one deserves that. Maybe you need to step back from those relationships.”
I would love to hear more about spirituality from a trauma perspective. Even some of the most popular teachers I've had moments where I'm like "ehhh that doesn't take trauma into account at all," or teachers who outright dismiss trauma as something our physical being just has to go through, something you have to learn to let go of. While that may hold some big picture truth, I think there's a lot of value in exploring trauma and honoring it from a spiritual perspective. Integrating our trauma and seeing how it makes us the same as well as different can be so valuable. I think the "letting go" can be in our own continual healing, not something that just happens once and boom you're healed.
Hell yeah! Our personal narrative MUST be given the attention it rightfully deserves, no matter what!!
This was super affirming and made me and hit close to home because this is what I struggle with the most. I often feel like I owe people to heal in the ways they want and always fear they'll leave me if I don't or that it will be evidence that I'm not good enough. There's an aura about a person sometimes for me, metaphorically speaking, where I can sense I'm going to be sucked into some belief paradigm and called out and challenged about my own feelings. These people are the usually the first to leave you, I find, if you don't absorb them like a sponge because you're "not worth their time." It adds so much stress to actually processing and dealing with your fears to have someone suggest you're not doing it right, you can just let things go and you're choosing what's happening to you. I had a "spiritual coach" you could say, address a group I was in once and say that any physical illness is manifested by something you're not dealing with and I was visibly sick at the time and she shamed me for being there. I felt like shit for weeks after not realizing that maybe I just caught a virus. She also claimed that cancer was a manifestation of denying your path and choosing fear. I wonder how many people in that group lost someone or was loosing someone to cancer or had cancer at the time. This was a big part of my childhood abuse. As an adult I have a hard time, sometimes, finding confidence in my own feelings and choices if they are challenged. It's ingrained to the point where sometimes I assume I'm the one who's wrong and struggle if it's not validated by somebody else. The feeling of not being allowed to feel how you feel makes you feel like you're hitting your head against a stone wall. I honestly feel like it's better to just feel bad then to feel like you have to be feeling a certain way while you're feeling bad. Extra un-needed layer!
Not even a minute in, and my jaw hit the floor. Who SAYS that?! (About therapy.) ...people don't always go to therapy thinking about changing themselves the way they may end up needing to or eventually doing down the line... but I've never met someone who went to therapy "just to complain." ...we can do that for free w/ our friends.
This video is extremely useful to me!! “We take toxic positivity as commands and not crappy suggestions” so true. It’s maddening but this video is super helpful to help me work through the toxic positivity I’m struggling with in my work and home life right now.
2:26 - A 1000% convinced. Yes, omg! I was just thinking about this - I am in lowcontact with my narc parents and we used to have a lot of friction in my teenage years. But now, in my thirties, whenever we do talk on the phone, and as long as we are not talking about me, they seem so mellow and ok. This has been much more the case and they make me feel crazy to have been going to therapy and to have described them as "narc parents" to my therapist. I used to gaslight myself over this but am realizing that they are so 1000% immersed in their own naivety and narrative, that their cluelessness and okayness really is, in a sense, just as real. It's real but it can't be trusted. Basically it boils down to, their mellowness to me after such long-term friction feels refreshing but I also know that it's denial in disguise, and one that can't be turned off.
My goal is to not get wooed by it, which can be very seductive and tempting, to just chuck my own self-work in favor of this "calm before the storm". My own therapy has also given me many reasons to know they are narcissitic and if I'm to visit my parents, it would be that I too don't lose touch with my own convictions (and validations) that I've developed over the years.
I have yet to see a therapist that hasn't come to me with phrases like "I'm the one who decides what you need and what's going on with you".
I even had therapists (most of them) that have told me things like "I know that you just said that you don't feel sad/angry right now, but I see you acting sad/angry, so you ARE sad/angry"
I relate to the nuanced analysis. I’ve been too 12-steps that are cultish and uses verbiage of “you are choosing to stay resentful and not
Have a happy relationship with your family” when I’m dealing psychopathic parents. Also relate to the exhaustion of being very very VERY swayed by folks who have strong opinions and strong-willed simply bc of their demeanor. It’s Definitely exhausting. Thanks for another awesome video
12 steps course are cults. I would rather watch paint dry than attend another Al-Anon meeting. I went once and never again. They want you to stay with the alcoholic abuser in your life. Tough love is for addicted sons and daughters but never for addicted parents. Just like in fundamentalist Christianity.
You've already given a much broader spectrum of what toxic positivity looks like and I didn't know or think it was that deep.
I mean the "you chose your parents before coming here :)" always rubbed me the wrong way but I didn't recognize it as toxic positivity...
It feels like I live with this stuff in my head and its just causing me more pain than I realize. Like its a constant shaming thing thats telling me I shouldn't feel so bad and I can do this...
It's way too physically exhausting to keep thinking I can take on things Im not emotionally equipped to deal with.
But anyway that earlier statement now gives me something to look out for as something that is potentially self abusive.
My heart is like.. "I seriously can't take this. Please stop hurting me...".
It's just a fear of the pain that makes it so tempting to take that stuff in.
“You chose your parents” is one of the many, many toxic beliefs within Scientology.
I think the thing that the spiritual community tends to forget is the fact that we all have free will. Even if we did “choose” our parents, those parents we “chose” have free will. They can do whatever they want, screw up and hurt others. No one just asks for abuse. We may want to learn things yes, but it’s ultimately up to that parent how they raise and treat us. They have the free will to choose how they will act. That’s never our fault.
@Madame d'Badger Madame, I love everything you had to say. It made me smile after feeling weighed down all day.
I remember times when I used toxic positivity. At that time it was unbearable for me to face any heavy, sad emotions. When someone was sharing their pain, it made me to feel very deep, heavy grief. I hated emotions in general, because I have been shamed for beeing too sensitive. Now I'm becomeing much better. I definetaly can say that it is a gift to live in times when we can find support just by whatching youtube.🙏
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes: "Life is pain. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something." ~Wesley; The Princess Bride
One thing I keep hearing from almost everyone in my life right now is anything along the lines of "just don't think about it! thinking about it just makes it worse!" Remind me how that is any different than "have you tried just being happy?" You can't, it's the exact same thing. It's one thing for capitalism and society to try and force down your throat that you are lacking and therefore can't be happy and having people you trust trying so desperately to keep themselves happy that even when they say you can vent to look nice they turn it back on you and how your the problem so they don't need to empathize to feel down or can crap on you later and talk crap about how miserable you are so they feel better. I know that's making big assumptions but it's not okay. In life there are ups and downs, there's trauma and amazing moments. We're supposed to and allowed to go through both and all things in-between. I know it's not always easy or healthy to listen to someone else's strife when you're in your own or just healing in which is valid, you don't have to but that doesn't make it okay to be an ass to/about anyone else going through it.
Thank you. I felt like crap because I couldn't handle scheduling. Since I was a child I was ashamed for inability to live according to the schedule. Even now every single attempt was a failure and I fetl guilty because I couldn't get my life together and start to wake up early and be superproductive.
But now I think that it's just not for me. I enjoy chaos and freedom so strict rules make me feel powerless and annoyed. Last week my therapist told me to accept who I really am and to observer if my lifestyle is actually as bad as I believe. And turns out, living without schedule and doing whatever I feel like makes me happier.
LOL ironically my narcissistic Father would preach, "Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and most of them really stink." It was easy to dismiss his offensiveness and neglect when I realized he was actually talking about himself. I was still never allowed to SAY his opinions were terrible but he couldn't govern what I thought. I wish I had been able to shrug off my Mother's voice as easily.
GOOD therapy changes lives, just like good life coaching changes lives❣️ And chocolate too, good chocolate changes lives ☺️
As always, absolutely brilliant! My feelings being validated is my greatest healing ❤️... I'm so tired of "well meaning" bullshit society loves to to dish out 😆😂... thanks Patrick 😁
Learning the whole “middle way” thing has been pretty great for me. Sometimes doing the therapy route and working through a problem helps, sometimes just telling myself STFU and just do it like a life coach helps. Figuring out what’ll work when is the hard part,
I agree that healing is a process and each individual needs to find their own path. There are many paths to healing and we each have to find what works for us.
Right, I used to think that therapy would be good for everyone because it was good for me lol It took a bit more therapy to realize that isn’t true 😅
That mindset was me trying to control the other people in my life because I didn’t have a handle on things that triggered me yet. I was like, “ah! Go to therapy so I don’t have to deal with how upset you’re making me!” And they’d be like, “I’ve tried therapy and it didn’t help.” And I was like, “🤨😬”
I loled at "unless your the Mandalorian".
"The Way" is the old, archaic, violent, "might is right" ideal from their origin planet & leader of the same name, "Mandalore", which is effectively Sparta. Bo Katan & her group of Mandalorians are in the second season & are *ALL ABOUT* taking Mandalorian culture in a different, more peaceful way.
I get this a lot. Someone may lend some money 400 dollars to a stranger, but I am cautious and when I am cautious I get 'don't be unkind'. My cautious head thinks 'they may not pay you back, they could exploit you, they could ask for for money etc. When money changes hands, there can be risk... but you get 'berated' for being cautious and told you are unkind.
I experienced an incredible amount of narcissism from the leaders of a coaching group. I got very caught up in their messaging and wanting to work with them for a while, and then I started noticing some things that just didn’t set with well with me and cut off contact with them. I can totally relate to experiencing arrogance from some life coaches.
It‘s somehow funny that they seem to forget their own purpose once they get involved with too many people. It somehow seems to be backfiring at them . Hey, maybe you learnt something from that encounter which is yet to be discovered
Thank you! This came out at just the right time to help me with a huge struggle I am going through. I saw a sleep specialist about my lifelong insomnia last week and I felt like she wasn't listening to me at all and dismissed most everything I told her. She then told me the only thing that will help me is cognitive behavioral therapy. I was very doubtful about how she could be so certain about this given that she didn't listen to me and refused to do a sleep study, but she all but laughed at my doubts and kept saying this was the only way. I reluctantly decided to give it a chance even though it felt very off to me. Everything you said about toxic positivity helped me understand the vibe I got from that doctor and why I've been torturing myself about it all week.
It is great that you are offering free therapy to victims of the Ukraine war. I spent 20 years working with victims of war and veterans as a medical doctor. Unless you have been in such an environment you may have no real idea what people have experienced. Especially the experience of being a refugee. The worst war criminals create PTSD deliberately. The most important thing to say when someone is having a meltdown is " You are not crazy. The enemy are the crazy ones. You are a normal person reacting to totally abnormal situation. I respect your feelings. "
Patrick I like that you approach people with respect rather than toxic positivity. It can take a very long time to reach the point where talk therapy is of any value. Usually it is just triggering. Spirituality can buy time until that person is ready.
My family member scoffed ..”seriously, who has time for feelings”! , then went onto say how eve one thinks they are depressed these days and went onto mock those who went for therapy.
Wow…I really felt liberated to be me and stand out like the black sheep in my parental and in law’s family.
i´m really appreciating, that you made the free therapy you are offering open for people of all war zones, not just ukraine. There is so much support going on currently, and eventhough I think they deserve every bit of it, it saddens me how much double standard goes on about it, and how it relates to race. thanks for making a difference!
There's always the bad joke that "the marriage of my parents was a war zone. So now do I get free therapy?"
The infant needs all their feelings reflected. Adults children of toxic positive arrive in adulthood with less than a full color deck and then spend life avoiding those colors.
Toxic positivity! Is akin to what William James calls healthy-minded - and involves a fundamental allergy to feeling misery of any shade - in otherwise - a full and abundant life.
Sad.
Thank you Patrick !!keep these coming!
yeah the choosing my parents before birth belief never sat right with me, i’m glad other people feel the same and knowing it’s a toxic thing. that shame is lifted off my shoulders now
wow now i know when i feel off or get silent after a comment from someone, i know that it doesn’t work for me!! very powerful
great video, these people are usually unable to face their own pain. So they deny yours while appearing to be being supportive. And there's usually a grain of truth. Some of the most common ones I've met, ''They did the best they could', 'Isn't it time to let go.' 'Other people had it worse'. One guy I know always tries to hitch a ride on my pain by bringing in his own, then belittling me for still being in pain. 'We all have problems, my upbringing wasn't perfect, but I've chosen to get on with life'. My way of dealing with them now is allowing them to be who they are, not trying to change them, and stepping away from too much contact. My family were awful, and it's my life story no one else's.
I am so sorry for your experiences, Patrick 💔 Especially with girlfriend. WOW
Thanks! That was a long time ago and I see it as a funny story now. "Your fault because of the other dimension" : )
I've heard the 'you chose your parents' thing way to often. It feels so invalidating.
Also you saying trauma survivors interpret suggestions as commands was eye opening!! Thank you!
This is so refreshing, thank you! I live in a hippie community and I love 95% about it. But it cost me several friends before I understood that you don't talk about trauma, or anything sad or upsetting. Moving here is what finally made me understand the concept of toxic positivity because it's so embedded here. I'm still trying to recalibrate and find people I can trust to be open with.
Are you sure you arent co-dependant and overly optimistic saying that 95% is good? Sounds like you should get out of there, even if you think you have no where else to go so you can do your shadow work that deep inside you feel you should be doing. I really wish you well on your journey and hope you are okay.
I swear it's like you are reading my mail. You're videos are spot on what I am dealing with. Can't wait for this!
💯 he’s wonderful
My counselor, and my mental health facility I am supposed to be receiving multiple services from, are emotionally abusive towards me. I'm too chaotic and hysterical and triggered to understand what my rights and responsibilities are. Going somewhere else seems impossible. I never went anywhere else while being abused by my family, or abused in my first relationship. I am stuck in my mind, and wounded in my spirit. I am grieving the loss of my only child who died from cln2 batten disease on 12/10/21. I am alone without support, and these professionals have blown me away with their treatment towards me. When I found Patrick on TH-cam I grieved my entire life because I never heard a counselor say anything that validated my life experience and my trauma, and I finally had hope towards healing. Talking about this to my counselor just irritated him, and I feel that he wants me to go somewhere else. He's currently asking me for an apology before he will see me for counseling ( usually on Monday or Tuesdays at 5:30pm at my house) because I asked him if he was licensed after he told me I should put more effort into bettering my life instead of putting effort into villainising his office ( but they really did abuse me. It actually happened. He acknowledged it in the past. I haven't gotten over it. Im still angry.) I have no confidence. My brain and heart feels broken. I feel useless.
It's probably Google Analytics that's reading your mail. :)
Thank God for Patrick! He makes everything clear! I'm 47 and just developing my sense of self.
I had some experience about those toxic positivity. When I talk to those people, it feels everything they believe is either wrong or just self-righteous thinking. It consumes a lot of attention to adapt to their multiple-standard belief. If I state the truth in order to establish some solid conversation points, their attitude is like ' maybe what you said is true, but what I think is more IMPORTANT and actually matters, so you'd better following my view then you can make me feel safer about myself'
this is an excellent point. what modern day people term 'toxic positivity' is often just rebranded old-fashioned dismissiveness. people only want to hear stuff that reaffirms their already existing worldview and/or their sense of themselves as a good person-- and if you seemingly puncture their complacent, apathetic smugness in any way then they will cut you down and off despite how logical, true, or kindly worded your presentation may be given to them.
This reminds me when I told someone I was taking vitamin d supplements then he suggested getting in the sun was better. What difference does it make as long as I ll have vitamin d in me.
it's fun this comment appears again. A lot of mental regression happen when narcissist feel their statues/belief was threatened. Fine when just encounter some strangers who needs to be important in the conversation, but when he/she is your family member or close friend it's very painful
I share the belief that we usually have some say over which lives we’re born into, but it’s not the job of the incarnated individual to be happy with the choices of the eternal spirit. We live on this side of the veil as mortals, and we didn’t make any of those choices as mortals, so it’s not okay to place that choice on the shoulders of the new human life suffering through the consequences of a choice they didn’t make.
I didn't really realize how I'm still forming as a separate person, even now. I get so offended when people offer advice or judgement because I guess I take it onboard and am not yet able to make a mental barrier there. Like the toxic positivity letter I got from my cousin in January ("you're a good mom even though it's hard for you", "I hope you realize you're a strong independent woman", and "don't let your past infect your life""), and the fact that my Mom didn't think she was good enough as a person without being Christian (well what does that make me then!? Bad?) True they have their own paths. Guess I'm still becoming stronger in my own. I still get scared to say no, and sometimes it comes out forcefully.
Ugh! That would annoy me too!
I find myself actually being the purveyor of toxic positivity with my narcissistic mom, who is herself a survivor of childhood trauma. Because I am so tired of her pain and constant negativity, and also I feel guilty and responsible for her pain, so I defend myself by being aggressively positive and prescriptive. Help!
I think you're trying to be helpful and find something to say when you're confronted with an uncomfortable truth. It's natural that you want to dispel that discomfort. When you have the urge to placate people going through something hard, try to think of something else to say that's supportive. Even if it's only "I'm so sorry you're going through that". You have the right instincts, you just need a new go to strategy.
If she's using her childhood trauma to try to manipulate and control you then you have the right to defend yourself.
I’m so glad you spoke up about this
I have witnessed this also and know the harm that this can do
The toxic “ spiritual bypass”
Thank you
I also just risked speaking up to a therapist who took over the session asserting their views over my own. I let her know it felt undermining and wondered if she questioned my intellect and capacity and told her how it affected my trust as well as didn’t feel good to be paying for that as I was needing to be heard.?I also added that I thought they did it to try to protect me. They have apologized and I felt it was pivotal for me that I risked saying that and chose to not abandon myself.
I identified with so much of this video in that I grew up with. “Psychic Narcissist Mother who would say she knew me better than I know myself and that I had a big black hole within that would never be ok unless I _____
Took EST, etc) I was very affected by guilt and shame and only recently found my right to be decades later.
Thank you
This is life giving
Wishing all the gift of themselves
I got goosebumps from the way you worded this. It feels like you truly and deeply care about your own development. It softens my heart to know that you care in such depth about yourself. Thank you, I seem to dismiss some of my needs, like my mother used to.
Lovely words, thank you again
I can’t stand people who justify trauma with this idea that we “choose our parents before being born”. It’s damaging and does more harm than good especially if there are people who have suffered from abuse.
I find it so cringey for new moms to casually say “thank you for choosing me to be your mama” as a caption for a photo of their child. It’s a lot of fanfare & pressure on the kid & faux deep
Sadly too many children become parents and adults who do this. Used to be called ‘gaslighting’
I'm late to the party, but thank you for this! I grew up being taught that children chose their parents as well. I've even heard parents in the culture I grew up in say that, whenever their kids complain, they remind them that "you chose us in heaven" and that they shouldn't complain. Yikes.
Being positive in a toxic way is definitely something I've done a lot in my adult life. I genuinely thought I was helping people by showing the " bright side" perspective. I practiced it in my own life as well, minimizing challenging situations by thinking, well it could be worse! And indeed almost nothing in my adult life has been as painful or challenging as childhood. Now I just listen to people and ask them questions, if they are interested in anything else I have to say they can ask, for the most part people just want to be heard and so that's what I give them. Work in progress.
Urgh- I felt you when you heard someone say “you chose your family.” This video was very informative and interesting. Great delivery! 👍
Absolutism is a big red flag indicating overly rigid perspectives. Be wary of those who are that self-asured that they insist their way or agenda is the "only way." Great content as always! ❤❤❤
It’s really sad that I cannot seem to find a competent therapist. With a significant background in working with mentally ill populations and having done psychosocial research I often feel I know more than the therapist and I also know that they aren’t being effective or appropriate for what I require. Living with complex PTSD but also having knowledge of what a good therapist should be doing or asking it makes it hard to feel seen or heard by most mental health providers.
I also have experience in spiritual trauma work as a holistic practitioner where people told me their deepest darkest secrets and I truly know I could help them but nobody seems to be able to help me with the amount of trauma I’ve experienced in the past 3 years.
How do mental health professionals find competent providers 🤦🏽♀️
I really appreciate you mentioning specifically new-age, and vedic medicines being potentially toxic.
I think it's great that you're reminding people to trust themselves instead of getting sucked into something because It's an alternative medicine, or something spiritual to fill in a psychological gap.
It's difficult too for people who are still vulnerable and learning from toxic people because they find them relatable with interests and trauma when other methods of therapy/finding wholeness don't work.
I can so relate. I was talking to my therspist about my feelings regarding my childhood trauma and her response was I would think you would be angry for picking such bad parents and quickly said I mean parents with bad parenting skills and I immediately shut down and felt shameful for complaining about something that I was responsible for. I never got past that and never opened up about my childhood trauma again.
I lived in a horrible home where my siblings and I were years apart. None of us had the same upbringing or abuse yet some want to tell me about my abuse. I then entered a 16 year abusive relationship before I figured it out. Where were these so knowledgeable and wanna be helpful people when I needed them most? Don’t dare tell me what to do or how to feel when you know nothing about my struggle
I have personally struggled with the practice of therapy because of my own experiences. My mom (who I believe to suffer from BPD) has been going to therapy for nearly twenty years, with minimal improvement. I'm in my thirties now, so I have witnessed her whole process. She has treated her therapists as someone to cry and complain at. I can only assume it hasn't been helpful to her other than that, proven by the state of my family growing up. She heavily replied on me (oldest child, daughter) as an emotion caretaker for her, as well as a physical caretaker for my younger three siblings. I was very passive and forgiving, a people pleaser, so I doubled as the family scapegoat. My younger siblings would fluctuate between extremes, based on their current development/level of rebellion/circumstances, as either perfect heroes or terrible villains. She regularly gave in to debilitating depression and relied heavily upon emotional manipulation to parent us all. She even used therapists to berate and guilt me into humble compliance, bringing me into the office after word vomiting for 50 minutes, then alternating weepy/smug while the therapist would lecture me on how my behavior was, in essence, ruining my mom's life.
I understand she was heavily abused as a child, so there was never any chance to be a "normal" parent, but one would think it shouldn't have been so bad, seeing as she had regular psychiatric care AND medication. Now being able to see with perspective, I think therapy can really be a useful tool to mental health, but, as with anything, it really is pointless unless you are working towards a goal of improvement.
For me, it was a spiritual cultist woman who felt drawn to healing me after my brother passed away. I was sixteen, it messed me up so bad, it was literally the last thing I could ever need.
Oh my word! I can’t tell you how helpful this was to me. I needed to hear this so badly. Thank you so much. I very frequently get trapped in many of these crazy-making thought spirals that you described and haven’t known what was true. All I’ve been able to do is pause and take care of my emotions… which is a huge step forward for me in itself.
They use to tell me that in AA (about therapy is for folks who don't want to change) 😳
And as far as choosing our parents before we got here, I buy into some of that for myself but I absolutely think it's toxic to put that on somebody when they are struggling.
It's like telling somebody that their dead loved one is in a better place. I'm so sick of dismissive behavior with one another.
I'm sure I have my moments. But sheesh.
I really appreciate hearing someone else talk about this. I’ve spent a lot of time with yoga teachers, various bodywork and energy work practitioners, and Adventure Based Counselors who are all well-meaning but tend toward toxic positivity. All of these areas have many positive qualities, but how they’re presented can definitely cause problems. I’ve tried discussing it at times, but they’re often so enamored with their favorite concepts and practices that they’ll say I’m just being “too negative” or “taking an extreme view.” But we work with a traumatized population, and I feel it’s really important to avoid pushing people to adopt the belief “everything happens for a reason,” or “why did you attract this into your life?” Or even implying that getting out of one’s comfort zone is always good, when PTSD often leaves one uncomfortable all of the time already. Or “if you own your side instead of projecting, those toxic people won’t bother you anymore. Just work on yourself more.” I’ve even had yoga/spiritual instructors who taught people to calm their Sympathetic nervous system response without addressing that they might be afraid for a good reason, which only taught them to stay in unsafe situations and ignore their inner alarm bells trying to keep them safe. You’re right that the childhood trauma survivors can be easy prey for situations like that, very susceptible to doubting one’s own feelings about an experience
I recently had a drastic change in my life turning from an atheist to a believer (not necessarily of God, but I started believing in the Universe and Law of Attraction) all this stuff is really new to me given I grew up not knowing anything religious related ever. This makes me a good bait for spiritual scammers and as much as it makes me feel bad to admit I do admit a few of my spiritual friends are a little bit brainwashed by these "spiritual gurus" they were suggesting so badly for me. Recently I'm going through a very chaotic and stressful period of my life and all I'm hearing wherever I turn my back is "keep the vibration high, stay happy through the chaos, it means your dreams are just about to become true but only if you keep your vibrations high during it!" this is so stressful to hear as It took me so long in therapy to learn how to not let myself denying how I feel and to actually grieve when there is need. It's hard when all these spiritual people keep telling you "okay you can grieve but not too much or either things will go even worse" as if just the right amount of grieving is right. I've most recently talked with one of my friend's "gurus" expecting some empathy and advice. I was dealing with confusion and hopelessness cause I wanted to attract some good positive people into my life, I did this by trying to think positively and getting into yoga and eating healthy but even though things seemed to go better at first life suddenly turned the other way around making my life a little hell for at least a month or so. I wanted to ask this "guru" what was happening and if it was normal as my friend said I could have been in the middle of experiencing spiritual awakening. All this "guru" had to tell me was that some things are just not meant for me (she didn't even ask me what I was trying to manifest and without knowing so she basically told me that having friends wasn't meant for me (?)) and that I was either wishing for the wrong thing or I was the WRONG one all along. she told me some people are born "cursed" and that there's nothing you can do about it. I told her I've been seeing a therapist for almost 5 years by now and all she had to say was that therapy was bullshit and its a depressing thing that hurts the soul. Her "magical solution" was for me to stop going to my therapist and instead pay HER up for "uncursing" me. Biggest scam ever. Not even a little sparkle of empathy there, just felt like a mean bossy know it all guru to me. And the worst thing is that I could recognize some of this "guru"'s words in my friend way of talking which makes me understand she brainwashed her enough to make her believe her way is the only way possible. Since my friend has began talking to this guru and giving advices to me I noticed she was becoming quite bossy and aggressive as well and I thought she was unrecognizable given she's usually extremely empathic. Now I get it. It saddens me to see her getting so easily manipulated over a scam... and It saddens me to find this much amount of toxicness in the spiritual, especially loa community. I still believe in the universe and karma and all of that stuff but not to such an extreme.
Such a useful topic. I get the feeling more people are realising the effects of toxic positivity, certainly within my circles, so that's good!
Anyone who says their way is the only way and claims to know it all without doubt or any questions or curiosity really, really creeps me out. That is not a safe person. (Makes me think of cult leaders and "spiritual influencers").
The whole thing about mental boundaries and compliance is super-relevant to neurodivergent life. We're often coerced into accepting and going along with things that don't work for us because they're the norm or supposedly "healthy". It does take time to unravel that way of thinking. Being able to say what works and what doesn't is a huge step. To be very honest, neurotypical-dominated society often feels just like dogma, it's uncomfortable and often doesn't make sense with who we are, how we feel, our ways of being.
I love the power of tuning into how we actually think and feel. We have really good inner compasses if we can learn to listen to them.
Here's an example with yoga. I love yoga, have practiced it for years, studied it with some depth and had many teachers. There was a time I was very unwell, at my lowest in the midst of ME/CFS and a neurological disorder and had just been poisoned by a doctor giving me a bad prescription and seeing another doctor she told me "just do yoga". I was so sick, barely managing to dress and bathe myself, it was utterly beyond me. It was incredibly inappropriate and demonstrated to me she had not really acknowledged anything I was going through. I left her care and made a formal complaint. (There were many other inappropriate things she said and did too). I'm well now, and because of that am back practicing yoga. It's really useful in my rehabilitation and recovery at this point, it was absolutely not useful back then. Toxic positivity really blocks listening and understanding, it is just so invalidating!
It is so true that having toxic parents can make you doubt your opinion and that you are a different person. Even at 56 I am still trying to 'be myself' and even now it takes time. I am a very different person - I don't believe what a lot of other people believe ie majority so I always get the playing down of my own opinion ... and experience
You openly give so much love , care and support, that it feels
Like you give a sh***, you care , and I chose to take it personally. Thank you for restoring my faith in people and helping me reconstruct my perception of “reality”
Dude
How are you so spot on with this so often that in 15 plus years I haven't heard from other therapists. I would cry listening to this but my soul is exhausted. Coming to the realization that my upbringing set me up for being unable to defend, stand up, or demand response to injury in the military that took 20 years to get service connected, meaning I had to overcome my "parent" (VA) gaslighting my wounds that were literally killing me to the point I was 6 weeks away from dying and even then there were expectations feom my government, my healthcare providers, and finally my family and (now ex) partner of my performance. Now on the other side of the emergency brain surgery and near quadriplegic, I have had to depend on these very people for caring for me, and they say things like if I wanted to get better really, I just would, or else what is keeping me from taking my self out to end my and their suffering.
As I watch your videos I realize somehow, happy go lucky me has somehow surrounded herself with only toxic people and have lost myself, having to focus on bodily healing and wonder why there is not one person who believes in me. Maybe my brother, but he also believes we can think our way out of any mental sitch unless we are too weak in the mind. Damn it's hard to come from that harsh, midwest Scandinavian blood! How many times do I hear, even most recently, that only the strong survive. No room for any weakness. Which explains in my current state why they have no room for me.
I believe in you. What a journey you’ve had. Just being here researching and listening to other ideas makes you stronger and smarter than it sounds like the ppl in your life have been. 💕
My first therapist warned me that most mental health professionals have major personality issues of their own and would try to bleed me dry
She was right. I wish I could find her card!!
Had no idea how valuable she was. Former Soviet bloc nation immigrant.
Amazing at teaching me about narcissistic abuse methodology to avoid!
I had the BEST THERAPIST when I started therapy at 25...
So happy to say GOODBYE when he retired in 2021. Yes I was there when he retired. I'd NOT BE HERE NOW IF I HAD NOT HAD THIS UNICORN THERAPIST.
Dear Patrick, thank you so much for putting words to the confusion that I’ve experienced in some of my relationships for decades!! I was never sure what exactly what’s the problem was and assumed it was just “my issues”. I knew that I felt worse after these type of interactions this was before I knew what minimising and invalidation were! Thank you again. truly …thank you!
Thank you SO MUCH for addressing this miserable garbage, Toxic Positivity. You are spot on, very practical takes on what to do. I'm glad when people find tools that work for them. Yay. Every single quick simple answer I've ever found has not even begun to touch, let alone heal, the damage caused by my (both) narcissistic parents. This is not my failure. Appreciate the validation.
"That's for toddlers, not for adults." Thank goodness someone said it.
8 mins in I never thought I'd hear someone say how I feel. I would never have called my experiences with people as them being toxically positive til this video. I always called them negative because I believed they thought I was lazy or negative by choice that I was wrong and couldnt fix it... or that they were mean. Thank you🔥
This video is incredibly helpful. I haven’t had the words to describe my doubt in what I think before. When I get triggered, I feel like I cannot disagree with other people-even when I am being accused of something I know I did not do.