I was watching the interview live and spat my drink all over my freshly washed clothes, hearing Kyle say that. WotC is courting a very venomous audience, and I am here for it. I am here for this self-destruction.
Also, a very small, and mostly poor audience, very few of whom actually play D&D. Look at the bright side. The D&D brand will make for some lovely pachinko machines.
WotC has been trying to shame people out of playing older editions for a generation. All they've managed to do is drive traffic to us, so I'm honestly OK with it.
As a grognard myself. I never heard Chaosium, Paizo, mongoose or any of the other publisher tell me they didn’t want my money. Hasbro/WotC told me they don’t want my money and I have no problem obliging.
If they didn't want your money they wouldn't be selling AD&D PODS. They want your money. They just need to pretend they don't. WotC claims they sell older materials, despite it's being "problematic," because they have "historical value." That's bullshit. If that were true they wouldn't profit by it. They'd be giving it away. But they aren't displaying them in a museum. They are selling them in a store. And they are doing it because if they want the money the OSR is making off "their" games. YOUR money.
The other woke publishers have not been as blatant about it as BOTC, but their product has suffered because of it. For example, Chaosium has declared the Masks of Nyarlathatep adventure path racist, and in Glorantha are slowly removing the white people groups with new products.
I'm going to say something that is social heresy. We are playing a game where everyone comes to the table _and pretends to be someone else_ for a time. So someone trying to dictate to me that what those very same people do away from the table is any of my business seems like sheer stupidity. I don't give two rat's farts what kind of person you are away from the table. As a GM/DM, you play in my world. If you don't like my world (more power to you) go play in someone else's world, but have fun doing it. It's that simple. White, black, red, blue, Nazi, Communist, straight, gay, CIS, Non-Binary; it doesn't matter because for a glorious few hours we are whatever we want to be, rolling dice and having fun. I think people have let others hijack our worlds into being pigeonholed into something nobody asked for.
I've been running/playing D&D for 43 years. I've been doing my own and always will.....Which includes "What-see" never getting a dime from me. If that makes me an "old white guy sitting in a basement" then so be it. I've been called worse and probably will continue to be. I have my standards and have never apologized for it.
Your average blue hair WISHES they could play in my "basement." But hey... If WotC would rather have their dimes than my dollars... I guess I'll just have to respect that. th-cam.com/channels/NoDe8hnpZYTjJ7I-XNnW4A.htmlcommunity?lb=UgkxzpxqWq5oPy4wc2kVU6o8_csZZNpNYa0e
I dunno. My first D&D group was a bunch of misfit white guys playing in a basement. So was my second D&D group. My third groups was 2 women and 4 men as freshmen at University. We were still outcasts.
What Kyle said was what any middle management executive, for any big corporation would say (more to their staff than their customers but I think Kyle conflates the two). Whether any particular Manager believes it or not who knows? But the point is they have to say it, and more importantly be seen to say it to get up the management ladder at the current time.
Super good video! Gained some new insights, learned a couple things. Can't wait for the next video! Also I had to turn my volume all the way up, idk if it's me or the video but you may want to put the microphone closer or something idk. Thanks for creating a community I want to be a part of
Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't have a microphone, yet. I'm just an old man with a phone. That's why I'm going to try to start running a paid campaign; so I can afford some equipment to improve my production quality.
I agree with most of what you said here but it's to late to keep politics out because it has been injected into the community. I've seen this in several of my other hobbies.
I refuse to let the assholes trying to use social justice as a cynical ploy to divide decent people and advance their own selfish agendas control MY narrative. The cave. Remember your failure at the cave!
I remember being a kid and being picked on because I played D&D, and yes this was the so called Satanic Panic in the 80's. I also remember what it was like being bisexual in the 80's. How I learned I had better keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to be beat up in school and shipped off to some reform camp by my parents. I live in the south if it is not obvious. D&D was all I had. It was something I could retreat into and be what I wanted to be in the openness of the game world. In many ways I am that old white guy, never had a basement though. But I remember. Now I see people leaving the hobby, some over changes to the game, some because they think the "woke crowd" which I am not a member of I don't think, "destroying D&D"...I mean I do think people should be allowed to love one another if that is their choice regardless of their gender, but I think that is a higher goal than D&D. As for "Destroying D&D" I have never set out to do such a thing by having a gay character. But the entire drama of the past few months has just been too much so I am going back home as it were. I'm dumping 5e for 2nd edition, the edition I started playing way back in high school. And Hasbro, Wizards, the whole community can just have their drama. And since more and more people are doing exactly what I am doing, I give D&D as a brand maybe a few more years, at most. Sad but that is where things are heading I think. Sorry for the long and rambling post.
I agree with Grumpy that no one should get involved in the hot mess that will be 6e D&D. However, I think that some of the new ToS could be challenged in court and found not to be legal. It is not necessarily here is the new 6e ToS and creators 100% have to follow it (i.e. have their creations stolen and then profited off of by HASBRO). Hope few in any creators get involved in the first place though.
I imagine that the laws will vary greatly from country to country, but I suspect the folks in the US will be, mostly, SOL. US courts are pretty corporate-friendly.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I agree with you Grumpy. It is a slim hope in the US. With all of the new good frameworks in the RPG field now in addition to OGL for creators to create content for I am not going to feel too sorry for anyone that gets burned for creating stuff for 6e.
Goodman Games is the good men. Or something. 😂 I’m totally not surprised at the idpol wedge drive attempt by WotC. They realize my demographic ain’t spending jack on their games so what do they risk? Typical. While it’s true that both parties are the henchmen of capital, one of them has advanced syph.
They assumed their customers are as narcissistic as they are, and that they wouldn't be offended if they only insult demographics they don't belong to. This was a grave miscalculation.
In all fairness, it will work with some of their customers. A very wise man once said, "It's much easier to fool a man than it is to convince him he's been made a fool."
As you said, the hobby has always been diverse, though it is true that white men make up the largest section of their demographic, however a far more important factor for the people in the hobby is that we love the game, that's what unites us all, skin color never had anything to do with it.
Good and evil start with choice. Order of the stick said it best, morals require thought. If somebody actually never got those thoughts provoked, due environment or stress, they will be acted against. It would be much better to grant empathic feedback to provoke those moral thoughts instead of alienating them, but that would require thought...
I agree that "woke" ideas are somewhat right, but the major problem I have with them is and always will be their methods. That's why the term "woke" came out (the ones you define "wokescolds") in the first place. I don't care about the ideal of "everybody being equal", I agree with that already. However, a forced regime of politeness and being positive and splendid "or else", is something that does not sit well with me. And even moreso, the hypocrisy that comes from that. For example, everyone is equal, but every entertainment industry portrays minorities and women as some sort of perfect demigods, while the "rest" (read: men) are always the wimpy ones, or evil, or wrong. Want to go for the "woman with a greatsword" trope? Fine for me. However, I would like to see a good guy buffed up in heavy armor and tower shield as well from time to time though. My opinions of course. Edit: Also, I 100% agree on their "fake leftism" done just for the money.
Most of them don't know what they want. The overwhelming majority of "activists" on both sides of the aisle are idiots doing what they are told by charismatic psychopaths who profit from division and malcontent.
The problem is that Woke activists don't want equality. The want equity. They believe that certain parts of society should be punished for things that those same demographics of people did decades or centuries ago. They also don't believe in freedom of speech. That's why 'words are violence!' to them. If you agree with 50% of what they say, and disagree with the other half, or is some cases a LOT less then you're evil incarnate. Need proof? Just look at what's going on with J.K. Rowling. She has been aggressively active on the Woke, Liberal Left for decades, but because she disagrees with ONE talking point, they've been trying to cancel her for years! That's just one example. It all makes me downright grumpy.
You nailed WotC MO of hurting their customers and fans of their games thinking they can make a buck. Lived through the panic too. 5e players are welcome anytime, I can also give 4E a spin since I was given those books, Basic, AD&D all welcome at my place along with several OSR games. Let’s roll dice and try not to get imaginary paper people killed who are doing desperate and dubious things…. 😉Roll on 🎲 🎲 🎲
Dude, wth. What's the point in attacking other fans of the game? If you really believe WotC is about to go on an anti-grognard campaign, then all you've done here is prove them right.
"About to go on an anti-grognard campaign?" What? You live under a rock, or something? WotC has been trying to shame people into using their new editions for a generation.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 you're missing the point of my post by focusing on the completely wrong part of it. I bailed on WotC more than a handful of years ago. Their motives are irrelevant. Your attacking of the community that you're trying to save is just dumb and counterproductive. Making a video where you explcitly call people stupid for enjoying a game... seriously?! How's that ANY different than Kyle?
@@ShadowDrakken If you had bothered to watch the video you'd know that wasn't true. My ire was, and is, focused like a laser on WotC/Hasbro. I at no point called anyone who plays any edition of D&D, or any other TTRPG, stupid. Now, if the 6E tos is as bad as I think it's going to be, and DM's start lining up to make WizBro rich stealing their content? Well... Yeah. At that point, you're being an idiot. NOT because you love a game. Because you are making other people rich off your labor and getting nothing in return.
Both sides? You think there are only two? Binary thinking indicates a limited intellect, dawg. And hate? No, man. I don't waste my hate on people playing games. I reserve my hate for the corporations playing us all for chumps.
Something tells me that's Grognard hasn't watched the full interview those exerted quotes came from; there is a fair amount of context missing. I suggest people to to the 3 Black Hobbits channel and watch it *in its entirety* before jusdging his words. He admits to faults both professional and personal. He seems sincere. And some of the info he provides fills in some gaps in the events from mid-Dec last year through the end of Jan this year. Taking anyone's word at face value is dangerous. Do your own due diligence.
I watched it and it seems like some TH-cam channels are losing their shit and overreacting, but Grognard’s take seems more like a reasonable interpretation. I was not convinced with the guy’s mea culpa.It seemed like damage control and setting up some larger con to me. Maybe I am just extra skeptical since my brother was a sociopath.
I watched it. And yes... I think a lot of people did overreact to it. But it was a bone fucking stupid comment obviously designed to virtue signal and divide. I am not so sure it's going to work, this time. Trying to strip people of their livelihoods isn't something you can easily pander your way out of. But we'll see.
I was watching the interview live and spat my drink all over my freshly washed clothes, hearing Kyle say that. WotC is courting a very venomous audience, and I am here for it. I am here for this self-destruction.
Also, a very small, and mostly poor audience, very few of whom actually play D&D.
Look at the bright side. The D&D brand will make for some lovely pachinko machines.
I was actually considering running 5e again until I looked up Thaco the Clown: shots have been fired
WotC has been trying to shame people out of playing older editions for a generation. All they've managed to do is drive traffic to us, so I'm honestly OK with it.
As a grognard myself. I never heard Chaosium, Paizo, mongoose or any of the other publisher tell me they didn’t want my money. Hasbro/WotC told me they don’t want my money and I have no problem obliging.
If they didn't want your money they wouldn't be selling AD&D PODS. They want your money. They just need to pretend they don't.
WotC claims they sell older materials, despite it's being "problematic," because they have "historical value."
That's bullshit. If that were true they wouldn't profit by it. They'd be giving it away. But they aren't displaying them in a museum. They are selling them in a store. And they are doing it because if they want the money the OSR is making off "their" games. YOUR money.
The other woke publishers have not been as blatant about it as BOTC, but their product has suffered because of it. For example, Chaosium has declared the Masks of Nyarlathatep adventure path racist, and in Glorantha are slowly removing the white people groups with new products.
I'm going to say something that is social heresy. We are playing a game where everyone comes to the table _and pretends to be someone else_ for a time. So someone trying to dictate to me that what those very same people do away from the table is any of my business seems like sheer stupidity. I don't give two rat's farts what kind of person you are away from the table. As a GM/DM, you play in my world. If you don't like my world (more power to you) go play in someone else's world, but have fun doing it. It's that simple.
White, black, red, blue, Nazi, Communist, straight, gay, CIS, Non-Binary; it doesn't matter because for a glorious few hours we are whatever we want to be, rolling dice and having fun.
I think people have let others hijack our worlds into being pigeonholed into something nobody asked for.
Amen, brother.
I've been running/playing D&D for 43 years. I've been doing my own and always will.....Which includes "What-see" never getting a dime from me. If that makes me an "old white guy sitting in a basement" then so be it. I've been called worse and probably will continue to be. I have my standards and have never apologized for it.
Your average blue hair WISHES they could play in my "basement."
But hey... If WotC would rather have their dimes than my dollars... I guess I'll just have to respect that.
th-cam.com/channels/NoDe8hnpZYTjJ7I-XNnW4A.htmlcommunity?lb=UgkxzpxqWq5oPy4wc2kVU6o8_csZZNpNYa0e
I dunno. My first D&D group was a bunch of misfit white guys playing in a basement. So was my second D&D group. My third groups was 2 women and 4 men as freshmen at University. We were still outcasts.
I don't think "kids" fits into the white misanthrope narrative.
Never trust a corporation, NEVER!
Say it loud, say it often.
Ever hear the one about the difference between wisdom and stupidity? Wisdom has a limit...
After hearing the interview from Kyle Brink I figured they don't want my money anymore at WoTC or Hasbro. Plenty of other companies out there that do.
And most of them make publish better D&D than WotC could ever dream.
Another fantastic video. You are a beacon of wisdom.
I'm a beacon of something. Time will tell what. :)
What Kyle said was what any middle management executive, for any big corporation would say (more to their staff than their customers but I think Kyle conflates the two). Whether any particular Manager believes it or not who knows? But the point is they have to say it, and more importantly be seen to say it to get up the management ladder at the current time.
Super good video! Gained some new insights, learned a couple things. Can't wait for the next video! Also I had to turn my volume all the way up, idk if it's me or the video but you may want to put the microphone closer or something idk. Thanks for creating a community I want to be a part of
Thanks!
Unfortunately, I don't have a microphone, yet. I'm just an old man with a phone. That's why I'm going to try to start running a paid campaign; so I can afford some equipment to improve my production quality.
But Grognard, corporations are people too. Just ask Romney.
If corporations are people, they're psychopaths. And I cannot think of a single one, off the top of my head, that shouldn't be in prison.
Wow! I had not seen this. Now definitively i'm not going to get any of WOTC's products in the future...
D&D is a lot healthier outside WotC's walled garden, anyway.
I agree with most of what you said here but it's to late to keep politics out because it has been injected into the community. I've seen this in several of my other hobbies.
I refuse to let the assholes trying to use social justice as a cynical ploy to divide decent people and advance their own selfish agendas control MY narrative.
The cave. Remember your failure at the cave!
I remember being a kid and being picked on because I played D&D, and yes this was the so called Satanic Panic in the 80's. I also remember what it was like being bisexual in the 80's. How I learned I had better keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to be beat up in school and shipped off to some reform camp by my parents. I live in the south if it is not obvious. D&D was all I had. It was something I could retreat into and be what I wanted to be in the openness of the game world. In many ways I am that old white guy, never had a basement though. But I remember. Now I see people leaving the hobby, some over changes to the game, some because they think the "woke crowd" which I am not a member of I don't think, "destroying D&D"...I mean I do think people should be allowed to love one another if that is their choice regardless of their gender, but I think that is a higher goal than D&D. As for "Destroying D&D" I have never set out to do such a thing by having a gay character. But the entire drama of the past few months has just been too much so I am going back home as it were. I'm dumping 5e for 2nd edition, the edition I started playing way back in high school. And Hasbro, Wizards, the whole community can just have their drama. And since more and more people are doing exactly what I am doing, I give D&D as a brand maybe a few more years, at most. Sad but that is where things are heading I think. Sorry for the long and rambling post.
I agree with Grumpy that no one should get involved in the hot mess that will be 6e D&D. However, I think that some of the new ToS could be challenged in court and found not to be legal. It is not necessarily here is the new 6e ToS and creators 100% have to follow it (i.e. have their creations stolen and then profited off of by HASBRO). Hope few in any creators get involved in the first place though.
I imagine that the laws will vary greatly from country to country, but I suspect the folks in the US will be, mostly, SOL. US courts are pretty corporate-friendly.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I agree with you Grumpy. It is a slim hope in the US. With all of the new good frameworks in the RPG field now in addition to OGL for creators to create content for I am not going to feel too sorry for anyone that gets burned for creating stuff for 6e.
Goodman Games is the good men. Or something. 😂 I’m totally not surprised at the idpol wedge drive attempt by WotC. They realize my demographic ain’t spending jack on their games so what do they risk? Typical. While it’s true that both parties are the henchmen of capital, one of them has advanced syph.
They assumed their customers are as narcissistic as they are, and that they wouldn't be offended if they only insult demographics they don't belong to. This was a grave miscalculation.
In all fairness, it will work with some of their customers. A very wise man once said, "It's much easier to fool a man than it is to convince him he's been made a fool."
Kyle B. "Whyte ppl can't get out of D&D fast enough."
Me to Kyle: You first.
Transgressive players unite!!
We are legion. MUAHAHAHAHAHA!
As you said, the hobby has always been diverse, though it is true that white men make up the largest section of their demographic, however a far more important factor for the people in the hobby is that we love the game, that's what unites us all, skin color never had anything to do with it.
Good and evil start with choice. Order of the stick said it best, morals require thought. If somebody actually never got those thoughts provoked, due environment or stress, they will be acted against. It would be much better to grant empathic feedback to provoke those moral thoughts instead of alienating them, but that would require thought...
You are assuming the goal is to persuade. This is rarely the case. Even when the cause is righteous the goal is, more often than not, to divide.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 owh, i was just day dreaming about a 'not morally bankrupt' approach...
I agree that "woke" ideas are somewhat right, but the major problem I have with them is and always will be their methods. That's why the term "woke" came out (the ones you define "wokescolds") in the first place.
I don't care about the ideal of "everybody being equal", I agree with that already. However, a forced regime of politeness and being positive and splendid "or else", is something that does not sit well with me.
And even moreso, the hypocrisy that comes from that. For example, everyone is equal, but every entertainment industry portrays minorities and women as some sort of perfect demigods, while the "rest" (read: men) are always the wimpy ones, or evil, or wrong. Want to go for the "woman with a greatsword" trope? Fine for me. However, I would like to see a good guy buffed up in heavy armor and tower shield as well from time to time though.
My opinions of course.
Edit: Also, I 100% agree on their "fake leftism" done just for the money.
They don't want equality, They want "equity" which can only come through the subversion of that which came before.
Most of them don't know what they want. The overwhelming majority of "activists" on both sides of the aisle are idiots doing what they are told by charismatic psychopaths who profit from division and malcontent.
The problem is that Woke activists don't want equality. The want equity. They believe that certain parts of society should be punished for things that those same demographics of people did decades or centuries ago.
They also don't believe in freedom of speech. That's why 'words are violence!' to them. If you agree with 50% of what they say, and disagree with the other half, or is some cases a LOT less then you're evil incarnate. Need proof? Just look at what's going on with J.K. Rowling. She has been aggressively active on the Woke, Liberal Left for decades, but because she disagrees with ONE talking point, they've been trying to cancel her for years! That's just one example.
It all makes me downright grumpy.
Aren't they treating us just like family? 😜
I mean... I have met some pretty fucked up families in my time, so... Maybe?
In-laws & out-laws! 😂
You nailed WotC MO of hurting their customers and fans of their games thinking they can make a buck. Lived through the panic too. 5e players are welcome anytime, I can also give 4E a spin since I was given those books, Basic, AD&D all welcome at my place along with several OSR games. Let’s roll dice and try not to get imaginary paper people killed who are doing desperate and dubious things…. 😉Roll on 🎲 🎲 🎲
I have no idea what he was really trying to say but it did feel badly worded. Did he mean CxOs? Players? Designers?
It was badly worded, but I think he was pretty clearly talking about developers.
OGL the Clown
Dude, wth. What's the point in attacking other fans of the game? If you really believe WotC is about to go on an anti-grognard campaign, then all you've done here is prove them right.
"About to go on an anti-grognard campaign?"
What? You live under a rock, or something? WotC has been trying to shame people into using their new editions for a generation.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 you're missing the point of my post by focusing on the completely wrong part of it.
I bailed on WotC more than a handful of years ago. Their motives are irrelevant. Your attacking of the community that you're trying to save is just dumb and counterproductive. Making a video where you explcitly call people stupid for enjoying a game... seriously?! How's that ANY different than Kyle?
@@ShadowDrakken If you had bothered to watch the video you'd know that wasn't true. My ire was, and is, focused like a laser on WotC/Hasbro. I at no point called anyone who plays any edition of D&D, or any other TTRPG, stupid.
Now, if the 6E tos is as bad as I think it's going to be, and DM's start lining up to make WizBro rich stealing their content?
Well... Yeah. At that point, you're being an idiot. NOT because you love a game. Because you are making other people rich off your labor and getting nothing in return.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I did watch the video, and you were an ass to both sides. Good job. Equal hate all around from you I suppose *shrugs*
Both sides? You think there are only two?
Binary thinking indicates a limited intellect, dawg.
And hate? No, man. I don't waste my hate on people playing games. I reserve my hate for the corporations playing us all for chumps.
Something tells me that's Grognard hasn't watched the full interview those exerted quotes came from; there is a fair amount of context missing. I suggest people to to the 3 Black Hobbits channel and watch it *in its entirety* before jusdging his words. He admits to faults both professional and personal. He seems sincere. And some of the info he provides fills in some gaps in the events from mid-Dec last year through the end of Jan this year. Taking anyone's word at face value is dangerous. Do your own due diligence.
I watched it and it seems like some TH-cam channels are losing their shit and overreacting, but Grognard’s take seems more like a reasonable interpretation. I was not convinced with the guy’s mea culpa.It seemed like damage control and setting up some larger con to me. Maybe I am just extra skeptical since my brother was a sociopath.
I watched it. And yes... I think a lot of people did overreact to it. But it was a bone fucking stupid comment obviously designed to virtue signal and divide.
I am not so sure it's going to work, this time. Trying to strip people of their livelihoods isn't something you can easily pander your way out of. But we'll see.
100% spot on.
Sent you a discord friend request by the way.
AWESOME! I don't use discord much, but I'll see you there!