Grumpy's AD&D House Rules
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มี.ค. 2023
- I'm a pretty kinky old man, but I don't do it RAW. Every great DM has their own take on the game, and I aspire to greatness, so here are my house rules. If that means my gaming style isn't pure enough for you... Well... I'll just have to live with that.
Looking to join a for real old-school D&D Campaign? Look me up on StartPlaying.games:
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Gary expected people to make their own house rules to best fit their setting and table!
Yes. This.
When people asked him how to handle specific rules he would ask them how THEY handle it. When they told him, his usual response was, "That sounds good to me."
Wouldn't mind hearing about Gary's notes for 2ND edition.
yes, me too! 😇
Check out Adventures Dark and Deep RPG
Get the Castles and Crusades books. It's what he would have made 2e to be, by his own words.
Someone smarter than me already did a TH-cam video on the subject. I wish I could remember who it was.
It was mostly about shortening combat by nerfing character HP.
I totally second John's suggestion, though. Gary Gygax consulted heavily on the development of the C&C system, and you'll see his hand somewhere on pretty much every page of the PH. It was, in a way, his opus as far as D&D was concerned.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Bummer I never heard of his 2ND edition notes before, don't really care what other people did.
Loving those rules, as they look very similar to my own, but I may have, like, half your age, and never played the original games like you did? My instinct just went to that direction before I discovered retroclones and found joy in the table with my players.
Thinking back on gaming over the years I never had a game without some home brew. This to me made the game unique and fun.
Ooh, I like that XP for miles travelled. Consider that idea borrowed, photocopied, and put back in your stack of notes.
I cribbed it from Rolemaster/MERP. Can't steal something from me that I don't own.
Rolemaster gets a lot of hate from a lot of TTRPGers that it really doesn't deserve. It's an excellent system for small tables (2-3 players is perfect) that don't mind a little crunch in their candy.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 sure, but, I'm cribbing it from you -- and I didn't steal it, I put it right back after making a copy.
I started playing AD&D back in '83. I saw so many different house rules that I don't believe any of us ever played the game as "rules as written". As I told my kids and their friends when they started to play and DM, it's your game, use what ever rules you like to have fun.
I have adopted an XP for travel rule myself, but instead of making it distance-based, it relies on discovering new places. Every time characters visit a settlement, discover a dungeon or see a regional/world landmark for the first time, they get XP. The bonus goes up with level, so it's not used to boost the first few levels and then forgotten.
I have roughly the same; "Did [character] learned something new today? Because of something he did? Something he witnessed?"
I started with Advanced D&D (1st Edition) when I was 11, I have played every edition save 4E, and I have found myself going back to a combination of AD&D and 2nd Edition AD&D. I have come to notice that many of the spells (for their level) can skew powerful for their level.
Like Abjure (2nd Edition AD&D) given to Priests at 4th Level. It's like Holy Word without the extra conditions (blindness, deafness, etc.) attached.
Preaching to my choir my friend. AD&D 1E since 1979! I agree with 95% of your house rules. I don't have permanent Level loss from monsters. Each day after the loss, I have the player roll their system shock % and if they succeed, they get one level back. If they fail, they must wait another day to try again.
I like the idea, although IMHO "per day" is too generous. Per month, maybe. I want my players terrified by wights. Level drain strikes more fear in most players than the prospect of death.
I love AD&D love your channel and love OSRIC and the newest version of Basic Fantasy 4th. I love your channel
Thanks, Chris.
Love these rules. Definitely going to adopt travel for exp and the poison rules for my AD&D campaign!
It was a PITA going through the monster books and penciling in poison multipliers for each creature, but it was worth it.
One word of warning: This kinda nerfs assassins. It doesn't impact my campaign, because I have a "no-evil-characters" requirement, and this makes assassin PCs rather unlikely. But if you have Assassin PCs in your game, you're going to have to give most assassins' poisons VERY low (fractional) or zero multipliers or you'll break the game for them.
Great video man. Do you have the poison rules written down anywhere? Looks like something I’d love to steal. I love house-ruling too.
@@Joethelawyer I'm interested also.
@@MedievalFantasyTV Well, then I guess I should take some time this weekend to throw together a quick spreadsheet.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 We actually have some very similar house rules. I'd also love to see the spread sheet on poisons, because I've never been happy with how that worked even back when I was a kid. We used the old poisons AA to XX Dragon Magazine article. But there should be room for non damage doing poisons, for instance a paralytic--want to freak a player out, tell him that his mage can't cast spells because his jaw as suddenly seized or he can't move his right arm for an unknown number of rounds. When it comes to awarding experience, I'm much more arbitrary about it. I do exp awards when I feel the characters have completed a module's worth of adventuring, and I also run a low treasure, low magic campaign. The thing that has helped my game out the most recently has been ditching initiative rolls all together in favor of using an attack order based on weapon reach. It just makes a lot more sense and it also makes everything go so fast when things are happening simultaneously. It sounds like it would be a lot more complicated but it really isn't. I credit PDM from Dungeon Craft for the basic idea, and I just fleshed out what that order might look like. I'll happily post it if you're interested.
My friend had a dart board in his room. one day playing D&D I said if I can get a bullseye then my character accomplishes a particular feat. we used the dart board a few times per session after that. Different distances, target number spots, use you opposite hand for something really extreme. It was fun and added a physical aspect to the game.
"Roll your stats 3d6 in order and you get what you get" is what you do as a rib to the 5e player who wants to try AD&D for the first time just to see the look on their face. But they don't have to actually play that character of course.
The first way to roll stats in AD&D as written by Gary was to roll 4d6, drop the lowest and put them where you want them. 3d6 was OD&D and Basic.
On the origins of Advantage: The 'Tween' from the Fiend Folio can indeed grant its host the equivalent of Advantage on attack rolls and saving throws. Unfortunately, it afflicts anyone close by with the equivalent of Disadvantage on those rolls. Nasty. 😆
The Tween. Thank you! Yes... That was it.
LOL I never give exp for treasure either. To quote my cousin who passed 5 years ago. "Treasure is it's own reward!"
The key to house rules is to not break the game. Do what you see fit, however, game balance is essential for an enjoyable game. One problem with early games was that overpowered rules were created that broke the game in favor of the players, followed by new rules for monsters to make up for it in an escalating cycle of changes and created an unenjoyable game. Gygax warned DMs about "Monty Haul" rules as you may recall. Thank you for this video.
Thank you for your THAC0 comments!
Any time!
th-cam.com/channels/NoDe8hnpZYTjJ7I-XNnW4A.htmlcommunity?lb=Ugkx-FtJ866isNNL18HGVQ9mImqVLltTwdUl
Hi Grump ,
I enjoy your perspective and your philosophy , which is not to say that I will leap to employ
all your house rules , but I respect your approach. I am very much from the same era - played my first D&D back in '76 or so. I have never played or run a 5E game , and every exposure to it makes it less likely that I will do so ( not to mention recent behaviour of the corporation ). I have no desire to spend an entire session rolling up characters.
No doubt I am missing some innovative ideas - every system has one or two - but I
haven't felt them lacking in 40+ years , so I'll survive.
I , too am a low magic and low treasure guy - my old brain can't conjure a medieval economic system that could rationalize that much currency lying around.
I also prefer emergent PC backstory based on ingame events. I am much more likely to permit a player to apply layers of backstory as they progress in experience. This makes sense to me as they learn more about the world and can come up with ideas that are inline with the mythos as their character has experienced it , and it allows me to more easily assimilate their ideas into seeds for future adventures - players can always come up with ideas you don't , and my ego is past the point where I assume all my story ideas are the best out there.
Look forward to your next offering.
Crusty,Rusty and Dusty DM
For death, I use 6-sided pulse dice designed for the FATE system. They have a flatline on 2 sides, a pulse on two sides, and a blank face on two sides. They start with a pool of 6 pulse dice + or - their CON modifier ( up to + or -2 dice, so a pool of 4-8 pulse dice). Each round at/below 0 HP, they roll the pulse dice. As long as there is one pulse showing, they live; however, any blanks are removed from the pool for the next round, so it's an ever-dwindling pool of death save dice. As soon as there is a roll with no pulse showing, the character is dead.
That sounds like a very cools system, except it still doesn't allow for instant death. The degree of the killing blow MATTERS. Instant death is a thing. Someone in a fight to the death should understand that each breath might be his last.
@Grumpy Old Grognard I do instant death if the blow does damage that would reduce hit points to - half the character level (rounded up) + or - CON modifier (with a minimum threshold of -1 HP). They're still pretty squishy, especially at low levels, but it's a little more forgiving than death at 0. I just forget bleedout altogether since the pulse dice can cover that aspect, as well. I find the dice really ramp up the sense of urgency for the party to get the downed character stabilized ASAP.
I like your house rules.
I use THACO in 1e also. It's so much smoother than the attack matrices
House rules was the only way me and my friend's could play since we didnt have acess to every DnD/RPG book out there. Those early days were some of the best campaigns we've played!
Playing rules as is, or trying to make it has hard as possible, is not my idea of fun.
Yep. Modern players don't have any clue what it was like in the early days. The first one thousand prints of D&D were ONLY sold in and around WISCONSIN. The rest of us had Xerox copies bootlegged and mailed from friends and family in the Midwest. These copies were often copies of copies of copies, barely readable.
Disclaimer: I don't actually play TTGPRs myself but for whatever reason I watch lots of stuff on it and Pathfinder on TH-cam. And I feel like you're one of the only guys who implied that there is a substantial crowd among 5e players who advocate rules as written. From what I remember nearly 100% of 5e youtubers I watched insist on houseruling the shit out of it and it seems like there is a consensus that entire subsystems of the game are considered broken and unusable without modding.
Anyways, I really liked your houserule on backstories. Makes sense to me.
Yes. This is true. 5E players host an entirely different breed of rules Nazis than the ones in the OSR. They don't play RAW. In fact, a remarkably large number of them have never even bothered to read the rule books... Even some of the DMs. 5E rules Nazis are triggered by mechanics, rather than specific rules. Thac0. Roll low to succeed. Basically anything that ISN'T d20, as they understand it, is wrong in the eyes of the 5E rules Nazi.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 ah, yeah, I remember a playgroup who were discussing that low to succeed check is oh so confusing since players could argue that they win if they rolled a high number cause high numbers are cool. That was a strange notion to me. Just take a piece of paper, right the rule down, stick it on the wall beforehand and point to it when they are being clowns. Not to mention that it's how percents works, it cannot possibly be higher, it should be lower.
One of the reasons I'm doing this deep dive is to determine how I want to play/DM and have a rationale behind what I want to do. I was always was under the impression that the rules were a road map on how to play but that you could do x or y.
Pretty much any rule set can be tweaked as long as it the rules are balanced. Vanilla 5E breaks down at about 8th level, but even that's a perfectly serviceable system until then. Your best bet is to find a rule set that suits your play style, though. When you first start working with a rule set tweaking it can create the same kind of issues that bad design can.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Right now I am solo playing Basic Fantasy rules/adventures but find myself pulling in OSC for combat and tables w/ 1e monster manual for info. BF adventures a good practice tool. I have Rules Cyclopedia on order. One of my favorite all in one rule books!
THAC0's not complicated, it's just a touch counterintuitive at first glance, and isn't dreadfully well-explained, particularly when new players encounter it. As someone who started in 3.5 and has gone backwards to appreciate the roots of the hobby, I found playing the original Baldur's Gate helped a lot. Also, just learning how to convert from THAC0 to Ascending Armor Class for my Castles and Crusades games helped too.
Thanks Grumpy!
You're very welcome! Thank YOU for watching.
Your thoughts on THACO as a device for keeping trash from the table gets my approval, although I stick with the 1e tables (and the combat computer spinner). What are spell slots (never played 5e)? Since the 1980s we always played a house rule that a magic user could use any spell in their spell book, but could cast only the number of spells set out in the rules - is that the same thing? Because of that, I always made the quest for scrolls central to any magic user's game. I also did 4d6 drop lowest, but allowed players an additional 4 points to add to their stats, on the proviso they could only make one 18 that way. I did this because it settled the cries of discontented 9 year old players in 1981, but it makes adults happy too. Great video. Thanks.
"Spell slots" sounds very similar to your house rules, with the caveat that you can use higher level slots to cast lower-level spells.
In 5E, this allows you to cast spells at an increased effect. Obviously, this element of the rule does not translate to AD&D.
I’m leaning toward a lot of ideas in Fate, namely things should fit the desired tone of the setting and be reasonable for the given situation. If the players agree to super deadly scenarios then they get killed by stuff. If they all want to be superheroes, then superheroes it is (not that I would be happy running that particular game). The only things about Fate that I don’t really like are the storytelling/backstory and lack of interesting polyhedral dice. Everything is a hybrid in my games. If a player makes a reasonable argument for something they want to do then they should be able to do it. If a result is RAW but doesn’t make sense then it is overruled for something that does.
People that think 3d6 in order is the way to roll tend to be OD&D or B/X players.
In AD&D, it's clear from the start that Gygax wanted PCs to be above average, he literally says so in the PHB. In the DMG, he elaborates on this and says that ideal characters should have a 15 on at least two attributes.
And lest we forget, Method ONE of generation in the AD&D DMG is 4d6 drop lowest. It remained so in AD&D 2E.
Yes. 4d6 drop lowest is actually one of the alternate conventions in the DMG. I think it's a reasonable advantage for PCs.
Plus... the wording was "3d6, six times, in order to determine ability scores..."
"3d6 in order" has always been a misreading of High Gygaxian. Gary himself used 4d6, drop the lowest, and assign as desired.
So I will nitpick a little, 5th edition runs with 2 kinds of cover:
half cover, proving a +2 to ac and dex saves,
threequarters cover, proving a +5 to ac and dex saves.
I do agree that advantage/disadvantage is really overdone, since it is used for prone, unseen, most detrimental conditions (like poisoned, restrained, paralyzed) its granted by a lot of features and the help action grants it.
However cover is actually one of the rare things that simply boosts numbers.
I do agree that 5th editions death system is trash, not only do you survive practically anything, the combination of it not going lower than 0, it taking many turns to actually die and the abundance of small healing effects (bonus action heal in healing word, lay on hands pool that can be spend 1 hp at a time etc.) means that if the party plays it smart they can bounce back constantly from being nocked out.
There is a rule though that if a player takes an amount of damage that is more than their current + max hp, they die instantly, so if someone is chewed on by a dragon, they could very well die outright.
Well... That's not overcomplicated at all. MUCH simpler than just adding modifiers to a d20 roll to hit. :-/
And it STILL doesn't draw a difference between concealment and cover.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Concealment is an entirely different system, this is cover, you also have lightly and heavily obscured, light does practically nothing, heavy makes you able to hide.
Hiding in 5e is basically a dead corpse rules wise, however there is a difference between cover and obsured, which is used to conceal
Good stuff. I am sharing this on my discord group. I admit I have not watched the entire video, but I have to step out and wanted to comment before leaving. I am sure at the end of the video there is no rituals involving young people, so I will assume this is a safe video to support.
Well... I do sacrifice a goat to Baal at the end of every video, but so far Google seems OK with that.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I will accept that.
I don't know how hard it is, but it would help if the videos were segmented in the timer bar on the video. It makes it easier to find information later when you come back to it when you forget.
You're right. I really should nose around in the Creators Studio and figure out how to do that.
You can be GrOSR, Grumpy Old School Roleplay!
I am SO stealing that!
'No Backstory', ROFL!
Look at it this way... If you can survive for a few levels, you'll have a backstory!
I appreciate that advantage/disadvantage can be too coarse; however, regarding your example: Fifth edition specifically *doesn't* use advantage/disadvantage for either cover or concealment.
Yes. I have been corrected about that, but I have been unable to find anything in the DMG which actually recognizes a difference between cover and concealment. Where can I find that?
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I'm pretty sure it is in the PHB, but I'll take a look when I get home.
Though I admit I have yet to try this, I think the magic system dilemma could be solved by using Vancian magic, combined with 5e-style cantrips. This gives the 1st level wizard something they can do, after they've blown their one decent spell, by allowing them to cast certain designated spells, at a low level. Vancian spell economy + innate basic magical abilities one would expect from a magic user.
The 5e mechanic of a spell focus (did it start with 3e? Don't know; never played 3e; not gonna look it up.) should be a mandatory mechanic for _any_ spell. Although it can be almost anything the player designates (often a favorite weapon), during a capture scenario (usually when you don't want to TPK the party), the hobgoblin chief saying, "Take the wizard's staff and spellbook!" sounds a lot better to a player than, "Cut off the wizard's hands and tongue!"
I like the idea of 5E cantrips in theory, but once I saw them in action it became clear that they are grossly overpowered. Hard pass for my campaign.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 - In the beginning, possibly, but only because wizards were so _underpowered_ before. One good hit can still take them out. As the wizard progresses, though, a cantrip is nothing-- especially if you don't allow them to do more damage with the character's level. A firebolt becomes a means of igniting combustibles for a larger goal, not the spell that takes out the BBEG.
I used to be pro-spell slot, even back when that was never a thing, but I realized it's a video game mechanic. Vancian magic gives an explanation as to how magic actually works in a game universe. Sadly, I was unable to come up with the idea of cantrips as a separate class of spell independently.
4d6, drop the lowest isn't a house rule. It's the default stat generation method for AD&D 1e. Contrary to popular belief, 3d6 down the line is not one of the 4 standard generation methods for AD&D. The rules specifically state 3d6 is not recommended. Source: DMG page 11.
It's one of, I think, four recommended "alternative rolling conventions" in the 1E DM's guide. Not the default. The 3d6 in order convention was a carryover from OD&D, and it remains the standard for many AD&D groups to this day.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I might have missed it on my re-read of the PHB, but it for stat gen it just says, "The referee has several methods of how this random number generation should be accomplished suggested to him in the Dungeon Master's Guide." Then the DMG has a paragraph about how 3d6 is no good and then lists the four methods. Up until my re-read I always assumed it was supposed to be 3d6 and we were house-ruling 4d6, drop lowest, too. I think the DMG just assumed everyone was coming from OD&D.
Method 3 is my favorite. I've never played in a game that used it, though.
RAW IS LAW.
So is the prohibition on smoking weed, collecting rainwater, and pistol braces. There are a lot of bad laws.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 - I didn't say laws were good. I said Rules As Written over rules as intended.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 we agree on many things, not just AD&D! Any gun control law is a violation of our constitutional rights!
Lol love your channel. I rule my table fair but when I read the game is mine and I'm the dungeon master it just stuck with me. I say what the rules are at my table. And yes 5e sucks.
IMHO none of this matters (these could be 2e or BECMI house rules). The real question is do you use 1 min rounds, random melee determination, firing into melee rules, and segments with regards to surprise and spellcasting times? To me those are the core elements that set 1e apart from the other D&D editions. I guess the weapon v armor tables too but those are almost universally considered dumb.
The answer is yes.
And you forgot to mention morale.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Morale is used to a greater or lesser extent in several editions.
But anyway thanks for the list.
I found another person who hates fifth edition as much as I do! 🎉
Count me in too.
Hate? Nah. If I wasted hatred on the kind of relentless mediocrity represented by 5E I wouldn't be able to function in modern society. I just hold it in a kind of quiet, seething contempt.
Maybe it was because we were just a bunch of dumb kids, back when I statted with AD&D, but I don't remember losing many characters. I think a lot of the high mortality rates with OSR games today are an overreaction to the endless death saves and second chance abilities that 5e has left us with.
I'm also generally against backstories and character arcs for low-levels. I use a 1-page max rule, and their story has to be public knowledge-- no secret royalty; no Batman! Characters _should_ stand at least a half decent chance of returning alive, and good character concepts (i.e., those that fit best into the campaign) should be rewarded. Otherwise, why become an adventurer at all? Better to remain a serf or a shopkeeper, and live in your hobbit hole.
But there's no reason to deliberately ramp up the carnage, unless that's what the players want. A simpler game _is_ a tougher game by its very nature. Give characters an escape route, but make them use their brains to do it-- no special abilities, and few if any game mechanics.
One of the most exciting parts of being an OSR DM is watching the players find unexpected ways to avoid the encounters you put in their path.
Are you against having 1st level characters just start with their maximum possible hit points?
I was. And then I started using fantasy grounds. The default in FG AD&D setting is max hp, and I didn't know how to change it. So we just went with it, and it has worked splendidly. The game does lose some of its challenge at low level, but it quickly balances out, and the PC mortality rate plummets. While death must be a part of the game in order for it to have stakes, the endless churn of level 1 characters was a bother. That's why I adopted my 1/2 hp rule. That worked to a similar end. I still prefer it. But my FG campaign still uses the max hp rule.
How you doing these days?
Things are kinda tough right now, but the end is in sight! My wife has been undergoing some brutal medical treatments and has been sick, but today is her last session!
I'll be back!
Sorry to hear that, My family will pray for you and your wife to have better days ahead. Looking forward to your return! @@grumpyoldgrognard9561
Thanks SO much for your prayers. :)
Unpopular opinion ..THAC0 never left the game in 3e+ it just changed directions...
That's true. Although the THAC0 haters will probably disagree because... you know... maff, there isn't much meaningful difference between addition and subtraction.
I miss the days when pretty much everyone who played D&D was, at least, as smart as me. Now, the hobby is full of smoothbrains. I realize that the price of bringing any hobby into the mainstream means dumbing it down for the masses, but the hobby was a much nicer place before we made it accessible to the lunkheads and ditzoids.
All the stuff you fixed with house rules were the reasons that I would not play AD&D again.
Your campaign sounds awesome.
Is there not a rule, that basically says use what you want, change what you want, and most importantly the DM lays the rules down and is the ultimate arbitrator? So who's not playing RAW? The people who claim to play RAW? Hey, you don't have to like 5e to dislike AD&D. I never played any D&D past AD&D and BECMI and I prefer all the other D&D over AD&D. I find AD&D bloated. Your death rules are interesting and worthy of a try. What's this spell slots thing, how is it different than what we had?
Spell Slots are basically a pseudo-Vancian alternative. Instead of memorizing each spell into a specific "slot," you memorize your spells and spend "slots" to cast them. So if you have three first level spells, you can memorize 3, say, magic missile, burning hands, and shield... Same as Vancian. BUT... You don't spend the spells, you spend the slots. This means you can cast 3 magic missiles, and simply not use the other two.
Finally... If you want to cast magic missile AGAIN, but you're out of 1st level slots, you can elect to use a higher-level slot instead.