I have a similar noise but I haven't done any troubleshooting yet. Hoping the engine will last me the summer :) When I accelerate the rattle goes away, when I cruise it rattles, when I deaccelerate it goes away again. A '61 beetle, 1200cc. Another project to do. Thanks for the video btw.
Yea I have seen that. Also if you have a 30mm pump you need to check the clearance between th pump housing and the rivets or bolts to make sure they clear or they will shear off. 26mm is just fine if you port match the oil grooves. Stock springs will work as long as you dont put the rpms much over 5k. The only thing that will happen is a bit of valve float but not often does that even happen. If you go 110 on a 1600 best to give it 8,5 to 1 and clean up the exhaust ports on either dual or single port heads.
Thanks for the tidbits Mike. Got the single HD springs on that one. I’m thinking about adding 1.25 rockers to the 110 cam on an engine I’m building right now, probably go to dual springs if I do.
@@bomberobus would stay away from dual springs. they wear stuff out like rockers pushrods lifters and valve seats. Unless your going over 7k they dont really do that much. 1.25 might be a bit much for the 1800. best if you do that with an F series cam
Now that settles it then. I knew it’d be extra wear on the valve train, but I didn’t know I’d need to rev it that high to reap the rewards. I’m gonna keep it 1 to 1 then (maybe some solid shafts) because longevity is pretty high on the considerations for this build.
1st VVT Air-cooled bug engine 😁 maybe not. Amazing how bolts tightened to 17-18 foot lbs is as good if not better than rivets that are compressed far more than 18 ft lbs. Shows just how bumpy a road the cam has and why straight gears aren't recommended for the streets. Most people would assume it was the fuel pump rod 👍
Yes the cam bolts in place of rivets have always concerned me. I wish I would’ve marked the bolt/cam relationship somehow so I could see if the bolt moved on next tear down. Helical cam gears only for me and the daily driver ✌️
@@bomberobus I've dealt with rivets and you can have rivets that are only a few thousands different or material is wrong and they don't collapse and fill the hole diameter but clamp fine. Since the helical gears are trying to rotate smooth but cam lobes are a bumpy subject you would think dear to cam should be dowel pinned like the crankshaft to flywheel. The rivets is supposed to clamp and dowel the gear to cam. Maybe instead of 3 it should have 4 cause lots of people are using higher spring rates.
@@benkrom2737 true because it seems like things have evolved to some very stiff dual springs. I also think that the gear lash is often overlooked and/or wrong in new builds. In this one, maybe the excessive lash from wear over time took a toll on those rivets?
Good tear-down video. You'll need a new oil pump, new lifters, new bearings, new pushrods, and I highly recommend single heavy duty valve springs to make the motor you are rebuilding work. Good luck.
Excellent points! We got lifters, bearings, and valve springs. The oil pump was something we didn’t initially consider but now have. Considering the push rods now! Thanks for the input and well wishes.
So my cam’s been doing this for years and many thousands of miles, the noise has stayed steady. I’m willing to risk disaster to not pull/tear down the motor. Along those lines, what history of this motor are we aware of? Like how long was that cam noise present? Do you recall what the gear would have come into contact with if the rivets got any looser? I imagine the backside of the oil pump or the inside of the case (??). Thanks for the vid very helpful!
“I’m travelin down the road I’m flirtin with disaster” 🎶…good song His noise came on suddenly, and got louder with every start up within a few days. Combine that with a flickering oil light issue (reason found and in a future video) and him wanting to build a 1700, we tore it down. The engine was rebuilt by the PO prior to us getting it. Yes, the oil pump could have been affected. The rivets could have just dropped to the case bottom or got hung up. Maybe your noise is just loose cam gear lash where it plays with the crank timing gear, and not necessarily the whole cam gear coming loose.
@@bomberobus thanks for the thoughtful reply and suggestions I originally thought it was my lifters rattling in their bores with the valve lash being taken up on that end of the train, as the elephant adjusters going onto the rockers are when I remember noticing this first, and because the slight oil film and lapped finish made them cling to the valves (at least with the engine off). The rattle noise sounded to me like 8 lifters. Kind of a cool sound actually, compared to “tack tack tack” of standard adjusters. So last week I put on 125 rockers with a new set of the same elefeets, which haven’t honed a fine polish yet, and when the engine is cold it sounds identical to how it has. But once the oil warms up, it sounds like only 1 or 2 lifters are clunking, not all 8, which sounds awful by comparison. It seems more like a cam gear about to flop off. It runs perfect otherwise, and once it’s cooled off the consistency returns. I’ve meticulously re-set the rocker shaft end play and re adjusted the valves 4x this week, changed the oil, and no difference. Stress tested on the freeway (hills and headwind with a roof rack) and maintaining 80 at 4K WOT (I run a big all terrain tire) for miles at a time it hasn’t changed the sound at all, so at least there’s that. Gonna give it time might even swap in the older polished elefeet. There are other relevant details but I think I’m resigned at this point to let it grenade if it’s going to and just buy a short block to replace it if needed. By the time a rebuild snowballs it’ll prolly be the same price. Hey thanks again for the vid and response 👏👏🙏
I have a 1915 the has a similar situation I didn't lose power o compression I don't have play on my crank poly and the noise cams from the front off my engine and it goes away wen I rub up the engine but wen it seems at a idol is wen the noise stars tanks hope you can healpme I have taken him to veryes mechanics and they tell me I can run it like that but I don't feel that is ok sorry I didn't send a video sens my car still at the mechanics house is Ben 2years and he still haven got to it tank you
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I have a similar noise but I haven't done any troubleshooting yet. Hoping the engine will last me the summer :) When I accelerate the rattle goes away, when I cruise it rattles, when I deaccelerate it goes away again. A '61 beetle, 1200cc. Another project to do.
Thanks for the video btw.
Thanks! I hope you get some summer fun in the ‘61. That’s a great year VW. I’d be interested to hear what it was when you tackle it.
Good job tracking down that noise, and a good choice for a cam. Can't wait to see more about this upgrade, take care!
Some say it’s too much cam for 1641, but can’t wait to get back in it and find out for myself.
Nailed the diagnosis before teardown 👏👏
That’s factory v-tech for more top-end power lol
Yea I have seen that. Also if you have a 30mm pump you need to check the clearance between th pump housing and the rivets or bolts to make sure they clear or they will shear off. 26mm is just fine if you port match the oil grooves. Stock springs will work as long as you dont put the rpms much over 5k. The only thing that will happen is a bit of valve float but not often does that even happen. If you go 110 on a 1600 best to give it 8,5 to 1 and clean up the exhaust ports on either dual or single port heads.
Thanks for the tidbits Mike. Got the single HD springs on that one. I’m thinking about adding 1.25 rockers to the 110 cam on an engine I’m building right now, probably go to dual springs if I do.
@@bomberobus would stay away from dual springs. they wear stuff out like rockers pushrods lifters and valve seats. Unless your going over 7k they dont really do that much. 1.25 might be a bit much for the 1800. best if you do that with an F series cam
or 1.25 with a web 86 similar setup
Now that settles it then. I knew it’d be extra wear on the valve train, but I didn’t know I’d need to rev it that high to reap the rewards. I’m gonna keep it 1 to 1 then (maybe some solid shafts) because longevity is pretty high on the considerations for this build.
Nice deal. I’m running a stock cam right now. Hope it’s okay. When I get a new case maybe I will step it up a bit. How much was the cam and gear?
About $110 locally. Interesting thing about that Empi 110 is it’s actual measurements were closer to the advertised Engle 100 cam.
1st VVT Air-cooled bug engine 😁 maybe not. Amazing how bolts tightened to 17-18 foot lbs is as good if not better than rivets that are compressed far more than 18 ft lbs. Shows just how bumpy a road the cam has and why straight gears aren't recommended for the streets. Most people would assume it was the fuel pump rod 👍
Yes the cam bolts in place of rivets have always concerned me. I wish I would’ve marked the bolt/cam relationship somehow so I could see if the bolt moved on next tear down. Helical cam gears only for me and the daily driver ✌️
@@bomberobus I've dealt with rivets and you can have rivets that are only a few thousands different or material is wrong and they don't collapse and fill the hole diameter but clamp fine. Since the helical gears are trying to rotate smooth but cam lobes are a bumpy subject you would think dear to cam should be dowel pinned like the crankshaft to flywheel. The rivets is supposed to clamp and dowel the gear to cam. Maybe instead of 3 it should have 4 cause lots of people are using higher spring rates.
@@benkrom2737 true because it seems like things have evolved to some very stiff dual springs. I also think that the gear lash is often overlooked and/or wrong in new builds. In this one, maybe the excessive lash from wear over time took a toll on those rivets?
Good tear-down video. You'll need a new oil pump, new lifters, new bearings, new pushrods, and I highly recommend single heavy duty valve springs to make the motor you are rebuilding work. Good luck.
Excellent points! We got lifters, bearings, and valve springs. The oil pump was something we didn’t initially consider but now have. Considering the push rods now! Thanks for the input and well wishes.
@@bomberobus which pushrods did you decide on?
He snagged some chromoly but we think the length won’t change. This ended up becoming a 1700 build with thick wall 88’s.
So my cam’s been doing this for years and many thousands of miles, the noise has stayed steady. I’m willing to risk disaster to not pull/tear down the motor.
Along those lines, what history of this motor are we aware of? Like how long was that cam noise present? Do you recall what the gear would have come into contact with if the rivets got any looser? I imagine the backside of the oil pump or the inside of the case (??).
Thanks for the vid very helpful!
“I’m travelin down the road I’m flirtin with disaster” 🎶…good song
His noise came on suddenly, and got louder with every start up within a few days. Combine that with a flickering oil light issue (reason found and in a future video) and him wanting to build a 1700, we tore it down.
The engine was rebuilt by the PO prior to us getting it. Yes, the oil pump could have been affected. The rivets could have just dropped to the case bottom or got hung up. Maybe your noise is just loose cam gear lash where it plays with the crank timing gear, and not necessarily the whole cam gear coming loose.
@@bomberobus thanks for the thoughtful reply and suggestions
I originally thought it was my lifters rattling in their bores with the valve lash being taken up on that end of the train, as the elephant adjusters going onto the rockers are when I remember noticing this first, and because the slight oil film and lapped finish made them cling to the valves (at least with the engine off). The rattle noise sounded to me like 8 lifters. Kind of a cool sound actually, compared to “tack tack tack” of standard adjusters.
So last week I put on 125 rockers with a new set of the same elefeets, which haven’t honed a fine polish yet, and when the engine is cold it sounds identical to how it has.
But once the oil warms up, it sounds like only 1 or 2 lifters are clunking, not all 8, which sounds awful by comparison. It seems more like a cam gear about to flop off. It runs perfect otherwise, and once it’s cooled off the consistency returns. I’ve meticulously re-set the rocker shaft end play and re adjusted the valves 4x this week, changed the oil, and no difference.
Stress tested on the freeway (hills and headwind with a roof rack) and maintaining 80 at 4K WOT (I run a big all terrain tire) for miles at a time it hasn’t changed the sound at all, so at least there’s that. Gonna give it time might even swap in the older polished elefeet.
There are other relevant details but I think I’m resigned at this point to let it grenade if it’s going to and just buy a short block to replace it if needed. By the time a rebuild snowballs it’ll prolly be the same price.
Hey thanks again for the vid and response 👏👏🙏
👍👍👍
I have a 1915 the has a similar situation I didn't lose power o compression I don't have play on my crank poly and the noise cams from the front off my engine and it goes away wen I rub up the engine but wen it seems at a idol is wen the noise stars tanks hope you can healpme I have taken him to veryes mechanics and they tell me I can run it like that but I don't feel that is ok sorry I didn't send a video sens my car still at the mechanics house is Ben 2years and he still haven got to it tank you
You’re right, if it’s the cam then that’ll have to be dealt with. 2 years? Good luck man, I hope they get you cruising again.
👍