The Games that Defied Death (and those that died trying)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
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Let's find out which side of the divide Payday 3 will land itself on. The video required a fair bit of research on the world of dead games and also made use of a lot of other talented people's content. Check them out in order of appearance below:
Death of a Game: / @nerdslayerstudioss
Was Watch Dogs Graphically Downgraded? E3 2012 vs PC Ultra Comparison: • Was Watch Dogs Graphic...
No Man's Sky, One Man's Lie: • No Man's Sky, One Man'...
overpromise, sell, underdeliver Cyberpunk 2077: • overpromise, sell, und...
CyberBug 2077: • CyberBug 2077
Back 4 Blood Is NOT Left 4 Dead 3 It Could've Been Something Better: • Back 4 Blood Is NOT Le...
SkeleBen: / @theskeleben
I Tried To Make Left 4 Dead 2 More Realistic: • I Tried To Make Left 4...
This video was brought to you thanks to the generous support from the guys over at Patreon: / kknowley
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Twitter: / thekknowley
Discord: / discord
#Payday3 #nomanssky #cyberpunk2077
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Promotion Skip Button: 10:25
Regarding modding, here’s the simple explanation:
If it’s good, people will mod it
Modding should be a point of pride for companies because it means people enjoy your game, but I’ve seen very few companies embrace it
Overpriced TV dinners lol
@@dragonlord4898 yea, a game which is in the core a good game gets modded, thats why fallout 4 or duke nukem gets mods. They are just good games to the core
I will say, i had a lot more faith in payday 3 until you brought up Back4Blood beating it in player count. Thats just.... damn.
For real, that game is everything wrong with modern gaming, I despise it with my whole heart.
Payday 3 sucks... but come on, it's nowhere near as bad as B4B, what a shame.
@@maboilaurence8227B4B constantly goes on massive sales so it has that going for it.
Payday 3 meanwhile generally goes on 30% at most during the big sales.
What's interesting about b4b was the first dlc fixed a lot of issues then the second one did too. However every patch after the introduction of dlc 2 started to nerf things for no reason. To where the game is worse than the beta everyone hated because there's more stuff to micromanage with you dealing less damage to the enemies because they are built to require optimal decks now
Gamepass says what 😂
@@maboilaurence8227 I mean...
B4B was on humble bundle a while ago (the Warner Bros one which has sold so fast that they had to stop sales of it and it took them over a week until everyone had every key of every game included) and constantly goes on sale for like 6€, so I'm not surprised that it got more players than a game where people.. forgot the company they buy from and expected as much as a game had after 10 years of life service (while it took years to fix the core issues) - so I'm not exactly surprised about that.
PD2 also only really took off years later down the line, if you think about it (given the sales number it got and the literal 5 million copies that were given out for free back in 2017) it never precisely did well either, most people left it in their library to rot after a few rounds.
Speaking of Raid WWII, did you know the game is still getting updates? The player numbers are in the single digits most of the time, and yet Lion game lion is still developing for the game, they’re even going to release a skill rework soon. I’m one of the few that play the game regularly, and I’m thankful that they are STILL working on the game.
Huh.
...Should I buy it?
@@anon9469 You should, they keep releasing some huge updates all the time, it's impressive how much the Raid devs care about their players!
@@thechugg4372Holy shit. They got a couple diehard players then. Honestly I'll recommend it to people over PD3
@@thechugg4372 Well, you shouldnt spend your money on a game just because it gets updates.
If Raid was actually a good game with a good experience, it wouldnt be in the single digits.
@@Waldherz Raid technically is a good game, WW2 payday definitely fills a niche - that said: Most of its playerbase left years ago, partly due to lack of content and partly due to how long it took to level up the classes. Not sure how it is now, but I do see why people stuck with it (its a good game), but also why it's almost dead (playing the same like 15 missions over and over again just to make no real progress to speak off in over 100 hours is annoying, it'd have done way better with no leveling honestly - ironically enough a perfect example next to PD2 leveling on its release as to how much worse leveling up can be than it was in PD3).
It’s starting to feel like another payday 2 revival would be more likely than payday 3 coming back, it seems like payday 2 is the only game they know how to make, anything else they make just goes up in flames
PD2 was in flames as well tho, and modern PD2 resembles nothing of what it originally was.
They'll just do the same: Turn it into an easy to manage game - work on spawn numbers, remove the only reason to even buy a new game (the armor system, as honestly no one that was there for long enough can tell me they're not sick of how PD2 plays) and replace it with HP + Armor reg again, as working on the AI itself and making it act with the actual systems around it would require by far more work and fine tuning.
Ironically enough, if PD2 would've been in the state on launch PD3 was in it'd have eaten a lot less flak from independent review sources and instead gotten a ton of appraisal - I'll never forget the sentence "Let's forget about all the gamebreaking issues - where is the cloaker? where are the big banks? this game got no identity and it doesn't catch the idea of the original game and we're just some small time robbers now with loads of features, but the suppression system is quite nice - yet I wonder why we only get 2 instead of 3 bots which just stand there and die without dealing damage or reviving me if I go down" - or "Well, we needed to find an additional 2 people to finish the footage for the review as the original 2 members jumped off after the third mission and uninstalled the game as they could not bear it as big PDTH fans, I was not so lucky as I still needed to do the review".
"on the table" seems like Starbreeze's favourite answer so far.
The thing that shocks me is that the team behind pd3 is still making wrong decision after wrong decision. I can’t imagine how you can step on so many rakes unintentionally.
also there is a suicide squad anime airing right now, so maybe it’ll get the cyberpunk revival who’s to say who’s to say
the anime put cyberpunk back in the spotlight again after all the fixes. the suicide squad game would need to be worthy of the attention if people are gonna care about it again, and I don't think they'll pull it off
it also helps that the cyberpunk anime was good, and the suicide squad one is... alright at best
All the bad decisions still make me think some of it is being knocked back by the publisher and shareholders
@@ekSil0Cyberpunk's issues were also purely technical. The actual gameplay is essentially CD Projekt Red making a Deus Ex game, and the story is good too from what I've played.
@@daedalus6433 they could probably rework the gameplay somehow but yeah
Some very good points, Payday 3 can become good, but it's hard to know if they can keep fixing things and avoiding more issues long enough to get the player base up~
Another fun redemption story is Final Fantasy 14, though I don't see that being a avenue that they can take with Payday 3 (Shut the game down and redo it)
18 hours ago?
There's a weird contrast with Multiversus, another game that took the rare gamble of de-launching itself, only for its newer version to get worse reception than the initial one.
@@Gagarin_001 I can time travel!
Avenue?
Boys in blue.
To be honest when I did stealth in payday 3 I felt like it was a puzzle that I could do with trial and error and it felt fun but in payday 2 it felt more jammer rushing and didn't click with me
I said it a few times before, but I think Payday 3 is going to suffer a similar fate to Raid: WW2 and Overkill's The Walking Dead. Those were the last two attempts by Overkill to replace Payday 2 as their main title, and they both flopped so miserably that they came crawling back to Payday 2. I think what's much more likely than Payday 3 coming back from the dead is Payday 2 coming back from the dead for a third time. Payday 2 has a strong and dedicated community that mostly stuck with it after the coming of Payday 3, and at some point Payday 3 might cost more to fix than it's worth.
I don’t understand why the game was such a departure from payday 2.* Just focusing on the heists, they are so freaking static that it is insane. The fact that they didn’t allow the heists to change layouts completely or vary the ways to complete objectives add different objectives for the same heists makes them feel incredibly stale. How did they not learn from 2. An example the armor system, if they wanted people to hurry up through a heist they should make it so waves escalated by spawning more specials specifically dozers that way if you didn’t want to be swarmed and eviscerated you’d hurry. This would also allow them to revert the armor system it also makes sense lore wise you can’t just rampage without the police upping the ante. I’d also make it so armor bags allow for a one time loadout switch mid heist so they’re not completely useless after the armor change.
* I wrote 3, whoops.
I'm unsure if they can revive 2, they seemed to be having the minecraft issue of years of spaghetti catching up to them.
I don’t know how easy reviving Payday 2 would be, and it wouldn’t exactly look good for starbreeze as a company, but honestly it seems like it’s the only game they know to make
Imagine the game gets fixed and we get a payday anime
I mean, its provem that if your game is doing bad just release an anime, make the ending sad it will be revived
@@elchar3577 but who are we gonna kill off?
@@l2_linksklix Locke?
@@Pappalardium Nah, kill the OG anime girl (Sydney)
I would like a live show over an anime honestly, unless we roll back to late 80's high style violence and not the current stuff.
Promotion Skip Button: 10:25
Thanks mate!
We need to be more like this guy
Use "Sponsorblock"
Just get SponsorBlock addon
just use sponsorblock extension bro
Minor annoyance, Shawn from No Man Sky wasn't "caught up in his own hype" the dude was a DEVELOPER he was no public speaker let alone someone that goes up on stage to deal with the PR circuit especially when they're relatively young at the time when it came to that type of thing IH more described Shawn as an "Introvert" because someone who doesn't have the cameras and spotlights come to them naturally are going to feel a little bit insecure if not shy when on camera, I mean look at his body language does it scream like someone who knows how to handle PR or does it scream like someone who was more or less put in that position because they had no other choice since when Shawn was doing all the PR stuff, the team didn't have anyone dedicated to that area of expertise, all the team was made of were developers and designers.
making the first DLCs not free was a mistake
Payday 3 Didn't Just Die; It Was Murdered
ooh. Clean prince gaming throwback. The worst part is despite the clickbait titles, the videos were generally well thought out.
Is that clown still around?
The premise of this video is flawed: starbreeze is a company that has a track record of not learning from the mistakes of others or of their own. They are also very out of touch of the issues with their game’s play loop.
Yup.
It's why PD2 has become what it has become and I can already see PD3 going the same route if it survives long enough for the sole reason of HP + Armor reg alongside spawn numbers being way easier to manage than actually working on AI behavior and other core issues.
It's also why I was so surprised about everyone being outraged about their best release state yet.
At 25:06, the fact that I thought it had cut to payday 3 gameplay just because of the gloves should indicate how generic payday 3 is
In my opinion, Payday 3 was a big step backwards from 2, and I don’t see any way I’ll ever return to it.
I'm not subscribed to you but I do watch you whenever you show up in my recommended. With that said, although I'm pretty sure it would drag in fewer viewers I did enjoy this introspective and analytical look on the video game space a lot. I'd totally watch any more content in this vein even if it was away from Payday.
While I feel some of the comparisons silly in someway, the dissection of each game's failures was absolutely great. Amazing video and a worthy watch.
I was watching a lythero short of Heavenly Father getting his shit rocked in Marvel vs Capcom before the notification popped.
Nice
Damn, why dont we see heavenly and badger in videos anymore, he was the most funny of the group 2nd to grouse ngl
Very good points and a very good video. Answering the question from the outro: I personally really enjoyed such a style: well-researched, well-presented, with both a deep dive into particular examples and a nice, tight conclusion at the end. Well done! I'd love to see more of it, eg. an analysis on the good, the bad and the ugly of pd2's revival era.
Payday 3 must pull a Cyberpunk 2077 or else it might just die completely.
The issue though is cyberpunk was riddled with bugs but great, payday was just bad to many (I like the game personally tho)
The issue with that comparison is that Cyberpunk already had an incredible core, the outside was the issue.
For Payday 3, the fundamentals are all over the place. They need to pull a No Man's Sky to bring the game up to okay standards. That means they basically need to fix up the whole game as opposed to bits and pieces.
@@MiguelHernandez-lo5lg did you read the changelog for CP77 2.0? They did basically re-make every system in the game
so they need to make a payday 3 anime
@CErra310 but the writing/narrative was pretty much golden from the get go, as was the world design and so on. The game was a mess on launch but really just from a gameplay side. Payday 3 is pretty much ALL gameplay and no narrative so its hitting that bit harder
it would be really neat if co-op 4 players pve games could start to learn from ghost ship games and deep rock galactic than doing the opposit
DRG doesnt have any new content planned for the foreseeable future, I'd rather support devs financially to get more content rather than how ghost ship pretty much puts drg on life support rn
@@darren8608 i get what you're saying but you need to remember that they're still a small team so it Being put on "life support" make sense since they just pushed a Big update and are working a a New game, and when i Say games should be more like drg i'm also talking from a monetization angle. Rarely have i ever see peoples saying they regret not purchasing a game at full price
@@userlaiss1409 He's right thought. Being a small team still doesn't change the fact that there's essentially a content drought for DRG. I'm probably among the minority, with over 1.2k hours and almost a religious dedication to the game, but as things stand, even with Season 5, vast majority of content is just reactivating old Seasons and Weapon Maintenance skins. Realistically, you get to experience the new mission type and the new enemies after 6-10 missions. The rest is just mindless grinding for Season XP, which also takes way more time than it should. 5k XP for one lvl out of 100, and you get on average 1k XP/mission is not the way to go
@@TripleSBushi listen the point i'm making is that the game come fresh out the box content full, polished, without any gameplay locked behind paywall unlike the games in the video. A content drought is preferable to them spreading too thin and not making progress on drg or rogue core wich is what was happening up to season 5.
@@darren8608That's true, but the last few updates and the newest major update were absolutely fantastic
I'm surprised Final Fantasy 14 wasn't on this, but it's a good video, and I understand the reason why people forget it's fall to what it is now.
They will have to overhaul the heists like they did in pd2 several times. There is no way the miserable stand-in-a-circle early alpha type gameplay mechanic stays forever.
At this point I’m starting to think that Starbreeze should have just remade Payday 2 in unreal engine with updated graphics, animations, and ai and called it a day. 😂
im disappointed fallout 76 wasnt mentioned because its remarkable how much free content bethesda has released but its still a great video
The game is still pretty awful though. Doesn't matter how much was added when most of the stuff added has been bad.
@@coltonwilkie241 when was the last time you played it
I think another case thats worth talking about is EA's Star Wars battlefront 2, it had a terrible launch so terrible that it's MTX was killed before it released, and for a while was left with major issues being widespread. But then the devs came and released updates that basically revived it, until EA forced them to move to Battlefield 2042
Absolutely great video, giving real impressive comparisons on similar journeys other games and developers have made over the years.
imo teh real problem with p3 is that you can buy countless hours of heisting for p2 for 20 bucks but spend 60 on a handful for p3, knowing that you'll have to spend a couple hundred more over the years to keep up with releases. it sort of makes sense to just wait 3 or 4 years and buy a complete pack then.
I have to disagree with the claim that Starbreeze wasn't "outwardly discouraging" mods in Payday 3. They outright said part of the goal of the always-online system was to kill modding, despite modding being a significant part of what kept Payday 2 alive for so long.
Surely the goal was to kill cheating, not modding. They donated a significant sum to the Payday modding community just months before the game launched. Seems a bit odd to intentially shut them down after doing that, doesn't it?
I just assumed they only wanted client side mods. There are a lot of ways to spoof xp in payday 2. Whatever you do don’t look at payday on nexus mods, went on there and mods were cheats, furry P etc
@@Kero-zc5tcNexus Mods for PD2 lul
They're on ModWorkshop, not Nexus.
@@somerandomgamer8504 they are ALSO on nexus, but it doesn’t have as many ‘limits’ so people post nsfw cheats etc etc
@@TheKknowley They said they wanted no gameplay-altering mods and a tighter grip on the gameplay experience. They wanted Payday 3 to only allow model/texture/sound replacements, no adding content like custom heists or weapons, no unofficial bug fixes or scripting. Yes scripting and gameplay alterations can be used to cheat, but they're also used for quality of life mods like vocal heisters and crash fixes, or even mods that were so popular they later got official implementations. I'm not sure if you remember but before Continental Coins were officially added to Payday 2 they were called Gage Coins and were part of a mod called Goonmod, Goonmod also featured mutators that were also added to the game officially, and a feature called the corpse delimiter that stopped bodies from despawning which was purely for fun. To make matters worse, even within the extremely limited range of mods they wanted to allow for Payday 3 it's still possible to cheat since texture mods can be used to make wallhacks.
I really enjoy these longer form video essays from you! Great job!
I’ve been really enjoying payday recently. I’m hoping the pick up of content drops both free and paid start bringing people back. If they rework the armor system, I find the gameplay to be pretty damn perfect for me.
it's important to keep circling down (no pun intended) the issue of replayability, really is what makes the game not appealing to return to
Let's be honest. Cyberpunk with it's awesome anime singlehandedly pull players back more than the First Expansion it has just because the people who watched it suddenly have a Vendetta on one of the characters in the game lmao
It actually benefited for that for them to announce the expansion for players to notice and care.
Haven't played since bathroom strats gonna hop in tonight and see all the progress they made in a year 😁
You said it perfectly. No Mans Sky developers knuckled down and released more content, bug fixes and more, FOR FREE, because their priority was making a great game. All I can see from SB is that their priority is seeing how much DLC they can sell you. That's the difference.
Cyberpunk 2077 actually has an interesting additional story that you didn't tell here. It's that a lot of what they promised was indeed in development, as proven by pre-release leaked footage, but in order to get the game out the door, the devs were rushed and a lot of that planned content was cut and made much simpler in order to make it faster to release. A lot of that still hasn't been delivered on and likely never will be.
I think one thing that massively helped early Payday 2 was David Goldfarb. Having an experienced development lead that knew what needed to be done was hugely valuable, in comparison Payday 3 feels pretty rudderless. Payday 2 had so much stuff going on in that first year
I think you're not remembering the first years of PD2 correctly then.
Core issues weren't fixed for years, the entire gameplay loop was changed and imbalance just made them release a new difficulty level that was bugged out - and yet, most people to this day haven't played more than a few rounds.
If you'd ask me what direction PD3 is headed in: The exact same, let's see if it survives for long enough - a damn shame that they search the easy route again instead of actually trying something more complex which would play well with the armor mechanics (because if I had known that PD3 would be heading in this direction again, I'd not have bought it - still a shame that they removed loads of the ideas in PD2 that actually had potential to make it a HP reg run and gun shooter that they could've easily sould as a secondary game and earned a ton off of it on top - but well, at least now we know that they're not able to do anything more complex).
As soon as Payday 3 gets proper singleplayer I will play it again
I think if no mans sky had released when it did, but as a beta, it may have had a lot less backlash. directly telling the players "all of the things we showed off are coming, we are working on them. it will take several years to complete them, but in the meantime, enjoy what we already have"
Funnily enough the devs of Raid World War 2 are actually working on more updates for the game and said something very interesting in their recent news blog.
They are currently redoing their entire customization system and give the reason: Redoing a system nobody liked from the ground up is better than band aid upon band aid.
And this is exactly what Payday 3 has to do. Screw the armor system. Screw the bland heist mechanics. Throw it out and redo it from scratch nothing good comes from band aid upon band aid fix
I find your point about unreal games having a generic look interesting, it used to feel like a lot of games were going in that direction but recently I’ve seen some more unique looking unreal games like the wolf among us 2, I wonder if Starbreeze can do some visual updates post launch like No Man’s Sky did to make it look more unique
Personally, I've always found Payday 3 unique-looking enough. It doesn't have the classic look of a raw UE game.
You see, I need my Payday Animated Series, too
Part of the fun from Payday 2 was the wacky stuff like being able to dodge bullets, crit smg, a minigun, badgers spoon, sending people to space, hiding behind a thin metal pole and acting like business is normal, aliens under the white house. All thing I hope come to Payday 3, or not doesn't matter anyways as there's no way I could run the game (because of specs)
as bad as b4b's launch was, its original premise during the alpha was much better where decks were randomized instead of static. it felt much more like a roguelike than the current release, but the progression system was also ironed out with unlocks via items you find in gameplay (duffels). the game was definitely simplified though to appeal to a larger audience due to the "overhaul" of the card system in the post-no hope updates. its in no way a perfect game, but i dont necessarily think it is a dead game.
Genuinely enjoyed this video, definitely wouldn't mind seeing more like it. Here's yet another prayer that Payday 3 can dig itself out of its soon to be grave.
What is overlooked a lot regarding CDPR and 2077 is that the warning signs have been there since the launch of Witcher 3 (some might even say 2 but I haven’t followed it). Witcher 3 also arrived pretty underbaked with post launch patches fixing everything.
Payday 3 can become good it's just a matter of putting in the effort. I hope they do but actions are speaking far louder than words if I'm being honest, I can't say it's baited breath but it certainly is of high interest that I watch this game grow
pd2 was wacky enough to allow for the suspension of disbelief for the ludicrous aspects of the gameplay, pd3's pivot to feel more like a COD like game is what doomed it to fail. all the uniqueness of pd2 has been replaced with shallow imitations of mechanics from other games that do nof fit the gameplay feel of payday as a franchise.
As someone whose been with it for near a decade, Destiny has gone through at least half a dozen "its so over/we're so back" moments that kinda speak for itself with the newest expansion being received so well. The fact theres been so many near-misses is a whole thing in it of itself and Bungie dropping their entire award winning community management team is still beyond dumb but ay, they managed to stick the landing. Think thats to be commended at the very least
I consistently keep logging into PAYDAY 3 at least once every week I don't want to see this franchise go down a path it doesn't deserve after being at the top for so long it can recover
The devs should be ashamed and punished. Don’t listen to the players? Have fun being a dead game
@@doomslayer8025I understand being mad at the developers, we have the right to. but I also feel like being negative for negative sake is a terrible way to move forward.
I mean, unless you’re just wishing for the downfall of payday 3, then great, do your thing. But if you want to see the game flourish into what it could be, then we should be giving *critical* feedback to the devs as payday moves forward. Not to say we should forgive them without reason, but to give at the least give a modicum of space so payday can prove they are capable of improving.
@@ReadMeinMind we did they don’t listen we told them they were wrong and they plugged their ears.
@@doomslayer8025 thats great and all, but like... "punished"? for what? doing a job someone above them told them to do? weird behaviour tbh
@@Lynch2507 they dont listen they get punished, you can blame whoever you want the devs coded it they devs made it. they could have stopped and said "we wont work listen to the players" but they didnt. almir is out here saying you arent a supporter of the game if you don't play the base game. it is the devs stop trying to shift blame because reddit said so. blame the devs
Promised 4 new maps by year 1, released 2. Gave 3 free maps *why* and mask mania. Clearly Mio is the issue, and Almir is a captive watching people abuse his baby.
“Games that defied death” TF2: amateurs
you do realize 90 percent of the tf2 playerbase is bots right lol look at the graphs.
@@d_dayne_eNot anymore, but the reason TF2 is popular is because the sheer legacy of Valve and if you know Valve, you know many hardcore fanboys they have, they are literally the Nintendo of PC gaming.
@@Moji55a they still are, they got rid of a lot of player bots, the idling bots are still most of the ""playerbase""
Ah yes, the bot ridden (not for a few days), game that gets a bucket of slop three times a year in order to pay Valve's water bill
@@leonardo9259 Also I forgot to add that despite all of the issues, TF2 is genuinely a good game, just a shame that it's got neglected from official support until recently.
gotta give credit to the tf2 players keep the game not only alive through 7 years without updates but also a massive botting crisis that made the game nearly unplayable
Here a another good example fallout 76. A game that had one of the worse launches ever was able to revive it self.
Im a Hunt:Showdown player and it is getting a huge engine update in august, what would you payday players say, would updating PD2 to a different, better engine and overhaul it be a better move than releasing a terrible PD3? Because it feels like if Overkill and Starbreeze would've just stay on PD2 and just transform it into what PD3 looks like and put the standart battle pass shit in it, that would've prevented, whatever left is of This.. ^^
I dont really comment often on youtube but i would loke to say that i enjoy this type of long form video essay a lot .
Ive finally returned to pd3 now that all these changes were made and im actually quite enjoying it, and am trying to bring my friends to it too
Unlike with Payday 3, I had fun on the launch of Cyberpunk. I got maybe an hour of fun on Payday 3 and that was with my friends. I did redownload it a couple months back and it didn't feel much different from release. I don't see Payday 3 coming back like Payday 2 did. There are a lot of problems that they need to address that they likely won't.
the game was on the brink of death im glad starbreeze is listening to the community and ill gladly buy the upcoming dlc… and kknowly we definitely know u played houston breakout u better give us a hint if its good or mid
TF2 just defied death and isn't here?
Cool video tho!
I know they had a nightmare with the bots until recently, but TF2 has hardly dropped below 40,000 players. I'm not sure it can even work as a point of comparison for Payday 3!
@@TheKknowleyThat number is inflated by drop farming bots. It's hard to know the actual number of real players that are actually playing the game.
TF2 was a victim of neglect, the video is a focus on games with terrible launches that either improved or died. PayDay 3 still has work to do before they can even get to a tf2 situation.
The problem with them saying that the game might not be there in 2 years or so is that there's not enough polish for people to be interested in picking up and playing the game now.
The released the game without an unready button or the ability to stay with your current squad. Come on. Most online coop shooters have that at launch.
I genuinely don't know what sort of lessons Starbreeze could learn from the relative success stories of No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk 2077, besides the surface level "don't blame your fans, and give them what you promised them" lessons. No Man's Sky has the distinction of operating in a relatively sparse market, headed by a small team that had the will and ability to just bunker down and fix everything broken. Meanwhile, Cyberpunk 2077 had a mostly feature complete game that was only really riddled with bugs, and CD Projekt Red has the financial ability to just stop and fix their stuff.
And despite that, neither game managed to reach the same level of engagement they had at launch.
Payday 3 has none of the aforementioned games' advantages. Its flaws are more than just technical bugs, with its focus on a rather simplistic gameplay loop that has no real sense of exploration or narrative progression. The reasons people stuck with No Man Sky's groundbreaking feature updates in space exploration, or Cyberpunk's fundamental system fixes that allowed people to explore more of Night City, are completely divorced from Payday 3's skill set.
Hell, even suicide squad tries to go for a narrative. The most readily comparable game of the four listed is Back 4 Blood, and it's a bad omen when that game is performing better than Payday 3.
NMS is one of the best space games EVER MADE, it took many years but it made it.
Imo I find it very easy to mod PD3, unless you are talking about making mods. I might have misunderstood.
A well made video analysis 👍
With Turtle Rock, they may have thought of the initial idea of what L4D became, but Valve did all of the heavy lifting. There’s a great “documentary” on this from Crowbcat called “Back 4 Blood proves Valve carried Left 4 Dead”
That video got a lot of things wrong. People who worked on the games have disagreed with it.
What happened was when turtle rock split the entire studio didn't go with them.
Chet, the games director, had left and started a studio of his own. As did a lot of people from turtle rock
How to tell a TH-camr doesn't care about a sponsor: skip 60 seconds exactly and it goes back to the video topic.
Anyone remember Battlefield 2042? I hope for a similar comeback. Similar to BF2042, it will likely never be truly good.
2042 didn't really bounce back into general gaming relevance, right now it is only being played by the last remnants of the hardcore Battlefield fanbase. There's still a lot of them, for now.
It used to be a strong community in the past, but it is quickly diminishing due to the precarious situation the franchise is suffering.
Considering most of the DICE staff has moved on and the next Battlefield game is just being made by contractors I personally do not think there is much left for it.
Once EA shuts down the servers for the older Battlefield games, the community will move on and then the franchise would truly be dead. Much like what Medal of Honor became in the early 2010s.
It's kinda... pitiful that Starbreeze is trying to keep on not hearing or seeing the glaring mistakes they've committed and just trot along the way until the noise goes silent. But boy, oh boy, this noise is gonna get bigger and bigger.
No Man's Sky has a huge benefit that there were few games that filled its niche and when it improved overtime people flocked to it due to the lack of similar games. Payday 3 does not have this benefit and in fact it is a massive curse since their are plenty of various styles of teamwork driven FPS, style games.
Ultimately, I don't think this game will survive, the devs have shown to be only half-listening, take in feedback but only occasionally acting on it, and Almir's begging for people to play while also blaming fans for their game's poor performance. This will only drive more people away overtime and I doubt the publishers will continue to allow such a poor performance to continue much longer past the required time in their contracts.
I liked Back 4 Blood, unlike Payday 3 where you need to know someone in order to access the DLC heists instead being able to join off quickplay, Anyone who owns the DLC Acts in B4B can share them with the lobby and also let non owners to earn new DLC Skulls currency needed to buy DLC skins/perks exclusive from those Acts.
Even though CP was broken at launch, I really enjoyed it on my PS4. Loved the story. Had hardly any bugs
There are some things you shouldn’t abbreviate 😬
@@itsaturtle1689 I'll abbreviate ur mum 🥵
the shlock in baxter paragraph lmao, especially lifetime commitment games as a service... fucking hell.
0:40 he definitely meant to say months. I don’t think pd3 has ever gotten 2 major updates in less than a month.
Love the long form essay. My only complaint is that it wasn't 2h long. =)
They should just update payday 2 on all platforms…maybe idk release a next gen version on console with the last dlcs and updates and just go from there
These are my problems with PD3 and as a disclaimer, I haven't played since the Legacy heists came out.
First off, the base game is just way too small for what it really is. 6 (7?) heists that have 1-2 paths in them that’s online only. There are only 16 weapons with level locked attachments that barely do anything meaningful except for Zoom and hush. No real replay ability outside of leveling up in general. Lastly, story is meh but I can deal with that.
All of that in a 60 dollar game (if memory serves) and already there is the equivalent price in DLC with little to no Base game changes other than the Adaptable armor and some skills.
With the DLC: there are more options yes but again, no new content for the Base Game; as well as the DLC asking for money, something that should’ve already been in the game, that was 60 dollars.
IF PD3 was Free to Play, I wouldn’t have, most, of the DLC issues. But a pay to play game with how young it is asking for paid DLC is ridiculous
I miss Evolve so damn much. The game was a fun mess, so much potential, so greedily mismanaged.
I’m still upset about raid WW2 and the walking dead game bombing, I was so excited for the TWD game especially
Starbreeze needs to fire however their lead game designer is.
Because however it is, clearly doesn’t think about ANY DECISION for more than like 2 seconds.
And no PD3 a “no man’s sky”, or “cynerpunk” comeback isn’t gonna happen for PD3.
PD3 needs a relanch, they can’t just fix or add more content, because it’s core systems are just bad, at it’s best.
You should start making more videos like these, less Payday focused (because i dont even play the game anymore, ive moved on to Rockay City) long form essay content
29:20 bro no mods=gg
Step one: invest in VR
Step two: revisit payday 2 but in VR 😂
Destiny has had this fall and redemption arc like 4 times at this point.
as long as the publisher doesn't get in the way, they can probably fix the game eventually
i wish they didn't have to fix the game, but it is what it is at this point
I agree that reinventing the wheel is a bad idea, causr i still dont like how the armour system works for payday 3 cause it puts alot of pressure on you no matter what, early game dmg can stack up to "OH FUCK MY ARMOUR IS ABOUT TO DIE" later on and getting deleted from dozers and sniper is always a threat just even more now, honestly just make every cop drop like 2 armour hp or something, it works for the ammo problem with payday 2 and its gives the player a chance to go armour positive if play right, and the grit edge rush is nice and all but wheres the SUPER WACKY SKILLS THATS GOOD FOR ONR THING AND ONE THING ONLY, like the trigger happy perk where anything that isnt a pistol sucks but damn THATS ALOT OF DMG
Great video, nice research
Imagine this, PD3 continues support and SOMEHOW fixes the game and continues to add content. I know, seems crazy but that would be cool I think.
fan fact, less then 10% of the people who've watched this video actively play payday 3
payday 3 defiantly had a good core game-play foundation (movement, gunplay, sealth could be better), but it got completely screwed by the menus, corporate, and the lack of any story. it should have gone through another open beta or two before official release.
rock the cradle public . Making you force restart as someone got the cage bags stuck in the corner . I do this when players ruin the STEALTH run . I don't understand why people don't check what builds players are running before pressing ready
No Man Sky comeback was fun
I refuse to give up on payday 3, i have a solid build now and can actually play more similar to pd2 i have armor and can run and gun, its litterally an armor dodge build, and ive had some great games with my friends, we just need quality of life improments auch as enemy health and player damage output, pd2 released similarly to pd3 with similar issues, if they dont give up pd3 will be just as good as pd2
Cyberpunk was a good game on launch and it became a great game. I don't care about consoles, PC release was still good.
Payday 3 isn't defying death; it's at 705 player count dropping point and is still dropping; sure at major content drops the game got a huge boost and then drops over time again.
Now Payday 2 on the other hand... 11,799 last time I checked. All they had to do was copy the success formula from Payday 2 and not 1.
Honestly, I can see Payday 3 making a comeback. I brought it recently, and it has great foundations. Movement and animations feel smooth, weapons are fun to shoot, the soundtrack is great, and the gameplay is fun. It's not without faults, of course, but as long as Starbreeze keeps working on it and enough people eventually try it out I can see it turning around.
Cyberpunk is a great example, as it's horid launch has now turned into one of the best games out there (Phantom Liberty in particular is by far the best DLC I have ever played). It really feels like the chance for Payday 3 to follow suit is there, regardless of if Starbreeze will follow up on that.
B4B makes me sad because I found the world and the Ridden to be really interesting
Long form content fits your style, I think!
TLDW, Payday 3 is cooked
Payday 3 seems to have the same situation as plants vs zombies battle for neighborville it’s just a downgrade of a masterpiece of a sequel