I Was Wrong About Payday 3...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
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...let's make it right. I'm holding up my hands and taking the L. I missed the mark, but so did Starbreeze. Here's a 28-minute video about saving face.
This video was brought to you thanks to the generous support from the guys over at Patreon: / kknowley
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Twitter: / thekknowley
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#Payday3 #Kknowley
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21:16 i know hes correct from a gameplay perspective, but the idea of the police deliberately setting up mines next to hostages to catch the bad guys is very funny
they did this in stockholm
well see the mines make you shoot randomly which would lead to the heister killing a hostage, its genius the cop didn't kill the hostage then
@@BatataEnlatada I'm sorry, wot? rofl
It's not too far off from when cops would drop tear gas on civilians back in PD2, so it'd check out in-universe
@@EbonMaster during the Norrmalmstorg bank robbery, Stockholm police attempted to fire at the criminals while hostages were in the line of fire, this is also where the term "Stockholm Syndrome" originated, as the hostages became distrustful and afraid as the police openly stated that they did not care for the hostages safety, forcing the hostages to negotiate for their lives with the police alongside the robbers
I wonder how much more profitable payday 2 would’ve been if they had just used a different game engine
This thought was supposed to be the starting point of payday 3
i wonder how much more profitable Payday 2 would've been if all the time and money and resources wasted in 3 were instead used for more PD2 content. Think about it, tens of other heists both free and paid,tens of weapons and new systems and so on.
I know the engine was old the game was old and there were limitations but it would still have been a huge huge success compared to Crapday 3.
I was thinking that too, because it's pretty obvious that the devs were not prepared for the crapshoot that is game development on the unreal engine.
game engine is fine, lack of features, playstyles, and heists are the problem.
Imagine if Overkill and Starbreeze had not wasted time on those two Payday-like shovelware projects that came out in between.
We went from Ancient Alien National Treasure levels of conspiracy, subtexts of how corruption extends to law enforcement as much as it does through organized crime, an Esposito and Reeves cameo, and convoluted hours-long stand offs with comically large spoons and dual wield smgs rife with easter eggs, collectibles and pick ups...
Now we get "meh... we'll fix it... eventually...maybe. have fun and check in in 6 months."
factual
👊😎 razzle dazzle developers
yeah payday players really ddint realize what they had till it was all gone, i remeber when alot of the playerbase complained about how payday 2 was getting too crazy, with all the conspiracies and easter egg stuff n alien tech and all that. and now that its all gone and we're just doing boring ass missions in 3. everyone misses it now
@@mrziggyzaggy113The dev’s need to pull a no man’s sky/Cyberpunk 2077 and start doing extreme damage control to make the game better. The alarms on the ship are sounding! Fix the holes so your game and subsequently your bank accounts don’t sink! To be honest operation Medic Bag is aptly named. Payday 3 needs a medic bag because Payday 3: AHHHH I’M DYING! AHHHHHGGGGHHHH!!!!! AHHHH! I NEED A MEDIC BAG!
@@albernard8751 The alarms are sounding? Man the ship is already sunk considering people can just go play PD2 instead. Plus while NMS/2077 are liked now, a ton of people were pretty quick to be vocal about making sure "fix it later" doesn't become the norm. Plus those games sold tons of copies and used the money to fix them. Payday 3 doesn't have that funding, even with Payday 2 being full of dlc.
This game is just really sad. It failed so miserably that no one outside the community talks about it anymore. This was way worse than my worst expectations about the game.
This is the death knell of a game. Payday 3 is so irretrievably bad that people have stopped caring. To the point where we are aching for hateful screams to drown out the deafening silence
The only times I see people outside the community mention Payday is mentioning 2, the game over a decade old now. People actively avoid discussing the sequel. That's how BAD it is.
I legit forget about PD3 until one of these videos lands in my suggestions and i still skip the video 9 times out of 10 times. Like a pic of an abusive ex or something, I just get triggered by this game. Lol
Damn shame, coming from a Jacket main with over 1500 hours in PD2.
They had like a literal license to print money, like gta6 and look what they did
Imma be honest, as an outsider from the franchise, I'd rather just buy Payday 2 full priced than Payday 3 on sale. Which is quite obviously not good.
Played pd2 for over a thousand hours. literally didnt even buy 3 and wont until it gets a full on no mans sky treatment. ive given them enough money already. so fucking disappointed considering how dedicated their community is
Same, and at the same time resmod is an example of what Payday 3 should've been I feel, and resmod is free!
I pre ordered the 90 dollar edition. I don't ever regret purchases, but this one was really close.
Agreed, and I did the same. It's very sad to see this game do so much wrong or underwhelmingly.
I'll be honest, this might be a controversial take (considering they broke promises with that), but I'd be more happy to have them expand PD2 even further at this point. I know it was finished already, but I honestly liked the expansions despite their controversial nature (or maybe I played a bit late after they happened - either way, I enjoyed them). It has very good foundation and it's still a fun game to this day, I like to occasionally come back, play some missions, challenges or modded maps.
Or other way around, bring over more good from PD2, it would be way better than whatever is going on in PD3 right now. Stuff like gameplay systems, UI, contractors, map variety and randomness, progression, skill trees and so on, and expand on those.
Agreed! I bought all of PD2s DLCs, I’m not paying for 3 until it’s the AAA game we deserve.
Yes a no man’s sky treatment
One of the saddest things from PD2 to 3 is that it feels everything has been forgotten in terms of the gang. Not even talking about the lack of characters and interactions, the largest gang in America only gets real attention from the cops after they've almost finished a heist, and even then they only get a pair of support units at a time. NYPD have only downsized their troops, bearing in mind that PD3 lacks medics, stronger levels of dosers including medic dosers, both marshals (Shield and sniper), SWAT turrets (thank god) and Cpt. Winters, all in exchange for the SWAT van (which itself isn't dangerous), the techie, a negligible threat on a single heist, and a guy with grenades, who isn't even unique to PD3 as Gas grenades and flashbangs were used by cops in PD2. It's not exactly a measured response against America's largest gang and really ruins the mood of the game, if the cops don't take you as a serious threat then why would you feel like one. It goes against the core of the franchise and pulls me out of the immersion as it just seems like we're a joke to everyone compared to where we were a few years ago in the narrative.
if i remember correctly over kill or very hard are the only canonical one from a story perspective, i agree its dumb they got rid of medics and all that but the plot of the game is not the reason the removal of things like medic dozers is disappointing, as far as im aware anything past mayhem isn't canonical in terms of the cops power.
@@redpanda4102 Medic and Minigun dozers are probably noncanon (as they're missing from the FBI Files) but all other DW/DS enemies very much are. Deathwish is definitely implied to have been done on some heists, and it's confirmed the Payday gang did fight the DHS/ZEAL (Death Sentence) for a brief time. _(they only deployed under the assumption that all the criminals grouping up for Hoxton's Housewarming Party were planning something)_
You are broadly right though, that Overkill difficulty is implied as the canon difficulty most heists would've took place on.
They should have gone with a new crew. Taking in as an homage to the original PD crew. That way, you understand the powercreep being so low
Something that I think is interesting, is that in Gold and Sharke, Shade says: "the plans we stole" near the beginning of the heist, but we didn't steal them. I would've loved to have a two day bank heist, so that it doesn't just feel like No Rest for the Wicked, but a larger map.
im not sure but but those "plans" werent they in the safe of the Juwlery store? Where we find out about all that Dirty Money?
@@MarkoKiller You are correct iirc. I can say for certain we do definitely steal them in a heist but it's a side item
@@benfenwick5403 Actually, no.
No Rest for the Wicked has a side objective for some docs on quantum components (99 boxes) but it's a side thing, and I don't think anyone ever mentions it later.
Road Rage is rare metals, which could be used for the components as well, but it's never mentioned.
Dirty Ice has blackmail material, but it's for the place/company we're stealing from, to get the manager into the back rooms.
Rock the Cradle is a crypto wallet.
Under the Surphaze is just paintings.
Gold and Sharke finally adds plot relevance with a server we need to steal... but before that, I think everything related to the plot happens in cutscenes, so really it's only the last 3 heists that actually have any plot relevance.
@@aleksandrazaryanova1677I think the first five heists were just about getting the gang back on their feet. The cutscenes in between those missions were just about tracking down who stole all of their money. I mean the getting back on their feet makes sense, but dragging it on for 5 heists and then finally finding out that Sharke is the one who froze their accounts is very dumb.
Starbreeze is definitely going under. PD2 was a fluke/stroke of luck in their incredibly flawed and failed catalogue of games.
Like many companies, yes. I do want PD3 to take off, I really do because I LOVED PD2. I just can't comprehend for the life of me how these companies go backwards with video games when they had a masterpiece foundation to base off of? Literally all they had to do was copy and paste PD2 with a newer engine, better graphics, some new heists, and lore and BOOM you got a great game. Instead what do they do? Get greedy and make a catastrophy of a boring game? I don't get it, I really dont..
@@ItsAlpa If they copied payday 2 mechanics people would complain about copy and paste formula. There is no happy ending
@@Zieb123 Nothing ever happens
PD3 was finnancially a success.
@@Zieb123 People have been complaining that CoD, sports games, BRs, etc.. has copy and pasted since 2015 and they still play and buy the games to this day. PD3 would be doing fine and have a healthy playerbase still if they did that. People will complain no matter what, but the product they gave us now is a joke. Even just a SIMPLE OFFLINE MODE would have negated so much damage I feel like. Greed completely got in the way of that, so they honestly deserve every single bit of hate.
It really just feels like they tried to make a modern Payday the Heist, but sadly failed in most ways...
payday the heist is better game than this.
@@arpadkovacs8671 I play all 3 games occasionally, and it’s startling to notice how “on-par” pd:th is with pd3, and even better in QoL features. The only lacking feature is the responsiveness of gunplay, but it still holds up extremely well and doesn’t cost 50 bucks.
@@arpadkovacs8671
No one said otherwise
@@arpadkovacs8671 Hell, Payday the Heist's levelling system is *still* the best in the series.
I enjoy how money = XP. It's much, much more thematic than the division the other games have.
@@arpadkovacs8671 that's why he said tried.
Let's just be completely honest about this game. Payday 3 is dead, and it's not recovering from this. The game has less than 500 players in 24 hours, lol. It would take an absolute fucking miracle to bring the community back, and genuinely, people are not going to be happy with anything they put out. It's done. They need to leave it and forget about the game.
The new devs shouldn’t have made this game bringing down the payday legacy
They shouldn’t have used the payday name.
It's even crazier when you check the charts, day one payday 3 had 70k players, today having 500 players daily is an enormous fall.
That's what they did with Crime City, that too failed.
They can’t
Are we ever going to get pre planning for payday 3
Gustavo made a track for it, so it was at the very least conceptualised. Source of that is Troy's interview with him whenever they ran through the game track list.
C'mon. Even Starbreeze didn't preplan the game
@@rabidbadger5260 hahaha!
We need a game first
lol
They should add a perk that lets you refund the game and call it “operation: we fucked up”
In Payday 2, even without following the overarching story, each heist is its own fun unique adventure. Where we start, what the contractor tells us in the first 10secs, their reaction to what we do, and how we finish the heist all combined made them interesting.
Shade as a contractor downplayed a lot of the game, that plus their insistence on using Shade when they had Vlad and Locke already introduced and available.
Like, fine, use Shade when the heist is generic but if Vlad and Locke come back to ask us for a job, not having them speak in the heist at all is very sad
When they are so committed to the new armor system then re-added old armor system as adaptive armor and refused to let go of the bad system is just a small glimpse that they know it's not working but don't want to admit it.
The armor system is literally why I bought into it.
Got burned with PD2 changing its identity after launch and probably gonna get burned with PD3 as well. But if they don't follow through with the reason why people who knew bought the game and instead give them a game they never asked for (like they seem to be on the brink about with the adaptive armor) I certainly do know who earns the worst dev team of the century award on my end and is never gonna see a single cent from me (like many others who left them behind already) again. For me it's essentially their second chance on improving on the foundation they got instead of running away with the money and just deliver a different product at the end.
@@Unknown_Genius I understand, but with the current game design, it's not working, as of right now it's basically just another health bar.
@@HinaomiAkiyamaI like the take of Kknowley in this video. The idea of building upon the current system ist much better, than reintroduce the old one.
@@BlackyJackyThey cannot afford to keep building on this fundamentally flaws foundation though. I'd recommend watching Piola's video on Payday 3 armor, but in short: PD1 and PD2 both had regenerative armor as a means of allowing the player to have bursts of being able to get in and fight the cops, followed by moments of vulnerability where you'd need to play more cautiously behind cover. A simple risk/reward mechanism that allows for skill expression and teamplay to shine.
But when armor is just turned into one giant health bar, every straight bullet is a punishment, so no matter what you do, whether you're playing good or bad, you are implicitly punished for it. So it either leads to just bumrushing the escape van or camping out in a bathroom stall for most of the heist. That's not fun for anyone.
@@Unknown_GeniusIt makes literally 0 sense to appeal to the 200 odd people still playing this trash fire compared to the x100 higher playercount that still to this day enjoy PD2's system.
The wild thing to think about is that Starbreeze are going all in on their NEXT live service game. Like I know it's meant to be a D&D live service game and, I'll be frank: D&D people have the worst impulse control and purchasing decisions of any fanbase short of Warhammer fans (speaking from my own personal experience) but even they aren't going to be ripping out their wallets at "From the makers of Payday 3".
They're definitely taking their pricing strategies straight from the WotC and GW playbooks.
It was almost nice while it lasted then, so long Starbreeze
If they could barely make more than 60 million dollars compared to payday 2's 40+ million copies
It really feels like the devs tried to take themselves way too seriously. Half the fun of 2 for me was the sheer absurdity of it all. What’s that? A heist about collecting goats scattered around a city block? Marvelous! Let me just grab my bow and arrow, a pocket flamethrower, a comically large spoon and my hip flask that lets me say nuh-uh to all that damage I just took while playing as a man that only talks with a tape recorder. But 3 just gives us generic bank heist while we use a generic rifle and a useless pistol while we juggle the same 3 buffs regardless of build while playing as less fun versions of old characters or a literally who. They just sucked the fun out of it. Even when you become op and power trip on the cops it’s just boring compared to 2.
Honestly, i think it's because of listening to people too much.
Going to sound weird, i know. But early pd2 took itself pretty seriously. It wasn't until they added some silly and people loved it, then they added more, and more, etc.
Then near the 'end' of it's 'life', before pd3 was released, it wasn't hard to find a ton of people constantly complaining about how silly the game had gotten. There were tons of outcries of praise the moment it was mentioned that pd3 wasn't going to be all wacky and silly at launch (some vids made by the more prominent pd2 content creators at the time, even) and cheering on the idea of leaving behind the silliness of pd2 and becoming more serious like PDTH.
I also think it was a major misstep, not from the devs, but by the vocal minority of the vocal minority, who would complain about it. As without it, alot of payday's identity feels gone.
Hopefully the devs will realize this though and decide to add the wacky back, because it would genuinely help out.
Yea I know what you mean and don’t particularly blame them for wanting to reel in the absurdity a bit. I mean if you had told me that it would all end with us battling against some immortal demigod bent on world conquest and bane becoming the president of the US I would have called you insane. I don’t blame them for walking that back, but some of my favorite heists like goat sim, hotline Miami, Scarface Mansion and prison nightmare are all crossover or holiday maps that we have yet to see anything like in 3. Builds are even worse. I don’t care how unrealistic it was. Breaking land speed records and mowing down hoards with dual smgs as a dodge build grinder was endless fun. But in 3 it feels that everything that made builds feel unique has just been stripped away.
All that to say, I get that they wanted to take a step back, but they went the completely opposite direction and are playing the no nonsense crime game to the hilt. We are getting closer to the one year mark and it feels that they have made little to no effort to try and bring back the wacky and are struggling to make any general improvements as it is. I really hope they come to their senses and try and lean back into that shamelessly crazy fun from the golden age of pd2 before the game just gets abandoned completely.
@@evanrude6488 agreed.
@@antirevomag834 I like to think most of those people adjusted to the absurdity of PD2 without realizing it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same people that tried going back to PD1 but gave up, or the people who'd kick players for not using the original crew members back when that was new.
Don't forget the "GET THE FUCK UP" from 7 meters away causing your teammates to reanimate themselves out of fear from you. All the skills that permitted so much gameplay personalization. The weapon attachments that weren't locked behind weapon levels, which permitted you to do a 180 on your playstyle whenever you felt like it. I loved the 2 because it felt arcade-y, it had that charm that scrached an itch. But in th 3? It's all gone...
I dont care how good it is, how awesome the soundtrack, how great the new systems are. NO OFFLINE NO MODS == NO MONEY
There are mods.
But the lack of offline support is inexcusable.
@@Dr.Oofers There is an online beta.... Now. But some games can be so good to me that I wouldn't wanna put any mods on it... Not this game, It's kinda sad, and I hope it has the bounce-back of the century.
This game really is the “my soundtrack came with a free game” meme, because it’s the only redeeming factor of this game
If they simply taped “MAKE THE GAME FUN” to their computers they’d probably do better than whatever they’ve been attempting these last few months.
they ran out of sticky notes.
Then make it their wallpaper or put push it to the limit in the background as they work ❤
@@Yami_Industries Or break the rules
@@Pappalardium and really put their backs into it, max out pursue it
I still can’t get over the feeling that Grit, Edge, and Rush are the equivalent to one skill in Payday 2. So we have skills in Payday 3 to proc one Payday 2 skill.
MarioInATophat: "All Starbreeze has to do is not fumble the bag..."
The Narrator: "They fumbled the bag. *_Horribly."_*
I just want to give an example for how to do a good grenade-based enemy type. The bomber type enemies in Darktide will not only target the players, but will just as frequently throw grenades into chokepoints in front of and behind the team. They'll single out lone players, they'll use their area denial to trap the team in bad positions, and the varient that buffs enemies in the gas will target large groups near the team. There have been several times ive been pushed back by a large horde only to find our escape blocked by a fire bomb, or had particularly nasty enemies get buffed by the gas at the worst possible time. Its genuinely fun to fight an enemy whos thinking more than youd expect from an ai npc
The bots also need a major overhaul. Their boneheaded stupidity combined with how quickly they die means that the player is constantly having to pick them up while trying to do all of the work on the side. It doesn't just break immersion, it prevents you from ever having any.
Ive never had them die once
I agree. I can understand tuning them down from the superhuman killing machines they were in payday 2 but starbreeze went way too far with it.
the only people playing payday 3 are the insane xbox dallas players and the people with nothing else to do, grinding for hours on end
To be fair, most of us console players were hyped just because of the cross-platform parity announcement.
Having new Payday content is big for us, period.
That goes without saying there are some console players that did eventually drop off the hype to criticize the faults of the game in hopes of seeing a better experience in the future, like myself.
the only people playing are the people who got it on xbox gamepass and cause its "free" can excuse terrible mediocrity, shows how much respect for themselves that they'd waste their life on mediocrity hoping that daddy starbreeze will fix a game that they are just gonna add features that are standard of the industry when the game needs a total overhaul.
@@marlon.8051 For what it's worth console players only got to experience half of Payday 2's content. It's not surprising to me that new Payday content is going to be popular regardless.
Not that it's an excuse to leave it as is. There are plenty of console players providing feedback to push for a better Payday.
@@marlon.8051 I can't imagine being this bitter over a group of people you've never interacted with in your life and needing to make up imaginary people to get mad at
@@marlon.8051 or they're people who in fact do enjoy the core gameplay.
what you've said could easily be said to PD2 as well, I certainly didn't expect PD2 to be revived after its release but I never blamed anyone who stuck with it because they actually enjoyed it (And I gotta admit that PD3 launched way better than what I originally expected, thought they'd have way more issues and way more bugs, yet they've somehow worked their way up and released a solid foundation for once).
that said I certainly do hope that PD3 doesn't get the same fate as PD2, which is turning into an entirely different game in every perspective from what people bought it for - PD2 for me sums up nowadays to: "Fun game, but not what I bought", the best world would've been fixing up PD2 and moving on to do what they did as an entirely different game - yet it took them 6 years to fix up the core issue alongside deleting its original identity.
"I Was Wrong About Payday 3..."
I am totally unfazed to see this. Literally admitting he was blinded by hype.
The difference is that he was getting perks and maybe even payments to be "blinded by hype" and sell the game to his audience.
@@AlexTechie Undoubtedly got payments. You cant push this hard on a game that is failing so miserably without being propped up to some degree from its owners. and now that the current call is here and the game is dead (500 people playing rn according to steam charts), its time to cash in on the "i was wrong the game sucks" train.
@@BinkoBunkodudes been saying this game sucks since like the second week of it being out Lmfao but sure dude, OK and Starbreeze were paying him to shittalk their game.
The intro says it all
"Almost a year ago to the day I was scripting payday 3 blew me away and the other assorted sneak peek videos after enjoying some swedish hospitality by starbreeze at their studio in stockholm"
Right after. It's evident, no matter how you slice it or what really happened that's how it looks. Other creators had the same experience too. It doesn't matter what kind of person they are, if they are not sponsored and are allowed to say anything, or if their videos were not entirely positive, this is how it looks.
@@connorbranscombe6819u realize they pay for a single good review or vid usually they didn't make the dude sign his soul for life to never have a bad word of pay hahahah god it's always obvious when you've never had a contract in your life
6:24 YES PLEASE, i'm tired of the same generic stocks/sights/grips and copypasted barrels/magazines that all the weapons in this game have
Buffer tube on an MP7
Payday 2 is my favourite gun dress up game.
While it often has very illogical, impossible and sometimes downright ugly attachment setups; I'm given so much freedom and so many options that it's not hard to make good looking and viable weapons for my loadouts.
@@DemonBlanka pd2 is almost perfect for gun customization in that regard. Legit made eyesore weapons just to play around with all the time. i love being able to take some extremely awkward gun and putting scopes a century older than it on it. it's a chef's kiss system.
I still haven't played payday 3 after it crashed when I booted it on launch day
please tell me you refunded, we can all buy it again later when it gets no man's skied
Same, it crashed for me twice and I canceled my pre order. No regrets
@@wacky-physics7506Lol pd3 will never get no mans skied
That's sad
@@wacky-physics7506 played it on gamepass
I feel like they don’t understand what made Payday 2 successful
Honestly, your part about the armor system has given me some ideas
2 piece suit (grinder/stoic) - 0 armor chunks, dealing damage heals 0.5% health 18 times over 9 seconds, can be activated every 2.5 seconds and stacks up to 3 times, all armor restoring effects apply to health instead at a quartered rate (an effect that would completely restore 1 armor chunk instead heals 25% health)
Tactical vest (gambler) - 3 armor chunks, picking up 40 ammo boxes from killed enemies restores an entire armor chunk, picking up ammo also gives ammo to teamates within 10 meters (can be proced by mag throw, procs armor restoration of other tactical vests but not ammo sharing, ammo sharing doesn't proc mag throw)
Lightweight ballistic vest (sicario) - 2 chunks of armor, killing an enemy gives 2% dodge chance, dodging restores an armor chunk and resets dodge chance, smoke from smoke grenades you throw are colored lavender and players in the smoke avoid 50% of damage. Smoke grenades regenerate every 100 seconds.
Medicinal supply vest (throwable based decks in general) - 2 chunks of armor, unlocks first aid kit deployable (affected all skills that affect medic bags except deep pockets, skills that increase charges give one extra kit instead of 2) you restore a first aid kit after 100 seconds, killing an enemy lowers this time by 2 additional seconds.
Bulldozer armor (armorer) - 5 armor chunks, reduced movement speed, armor repair kits restores an entire armor chunk instead of repairing the current one, breaking an armor chunk gives you 2 seconds of invulnerability, bulldozers will always target you when they can, killing bulldozers drops an additional armor repair kit.
Ballistic vest (sociopath) - 3 armor chunks, ammo reserves are halved, replaces melee bash with baseball bat, bat has extended reach and takes 0.5 second to hit enemies, all enemies hit by the bat while stunned by melee are instantly killed, bulldozers with intact faceplates instead have their faceplates broken, killing an enemy this way restores 20% health, 15% of the current armor chunk, and causes melee stun to enemies within 5 meters, these can only apply every 3 seconds, killing an enemy stunned by killing another with the bat while your armor is depleted restores 10% of a chunk.
Adaptive armor (anarchist/yakuza) - 1 armor chunk, restores 5% of the armor chunk every second even if fully depleted, every 9% health missing (up to 90%) increases damage dealt and movement speed by 5%
Gonna be real I accidentally deleted the comment when trying to edit it, thankfully I had saved most of it to my clipboard. But my idea was trying to offset the limited resource management in different ways inspired by payday 2 perk decks. I likely went too far, but oh well.
Honestly? I don't think the gaming landscape has changed to be more cut throat. It's just that people want content complete games like we used to get and devs aren't delivering. They rush out games that have no right being published.
When was the last time we saw a game launch without any bugs or issues? What you say is true, and very sad. Game companies these days are nothing compared to what they used to be. From their viewpoint, if the cosmetic store is done, the game is ready to launch. Payday 3 did not need to be a Live-service game. Payday 2 did *stellar* without live-service. So many games are dying, so many developers are out of jobs, so many good ideas wasted all because of greed and trying to follow the trends. Lethal Company is proof that a game doesn't need cosmetics, abattle pass, or any other live service component to be successful. It was made by a solo furry in a basement for God's sake. What we need is a return of passion to the industry. Right now it is just greed
I'll be entirely honest, they need to bare minimum add VoIP before I even think about looking at the game. I don't know why they decided to literally give console players zero communication options when this game literally depends on communication, but unless that happens the game is a nonstarter for me.
Lacking such a basic feature really shows the lack of care for the game, to say nothing of all the other issues. This might really be the death of starbreeze, and they did it to themselves.
yet another feature that helldivers launched with, and saw no major problems (and they're not using a off the shelf engine)
that was the final straw for me. Realizing you couldnt type or use voicechat so its impossible to communicate prelobby and for most people in game.
Refunded and I am glad I did.
Shame too.
I'm on PC and haven't even tried it on console, did they also give you guys the stupid dialog wheel thing? I genuinely don't know if you guys have it or not, but even if you do it fails to actually communicate much of anything. Something that's also bad is having to use [ENTER] to type, when normally that's how you send a message you've already typed. Genuinely feels like they failed to think through the systems that are required by the gameplay they literally designed.
I would imagine Project Baxter is dead in the water because after Payday 3 who is going to trust Starbreeze? The game is not going to exist in a vacuum and Payday 3's abject failure is going to taint it unless they get around to actually fixing the game.
after otwd, after pd3
"I Was Wrong About Payday 3"
YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY!?
It was always online trash since the beta, and it still is now
Went back to Crime Boss after first playing it when it came out. It honestly feels like it's in a better place than this game. There are still issues, sure, but its future path seems much clearer than this game. It's smaller scale, more arcadey, and more randomized compared to this franchise, but it's scratching that heisting itch that this game just isn't.
well, new adventures await buddy
I fucking love banks
i’ll break out the bubbly!
I've been playing crimeboss for 2 weeks straight now, I've been really enjoying it alot. Plus it was free on ps5
But the Act Ma'am told me it was a good game lmao.
Why would someone still listen to the casual GamersTM that is Act Man, Luke Stephens, and YongYea.
My problem with live service isnt the idea itself. Its that publishers use it as excuse to launch incomplete games,and only fix it if it worth it
"I have faith internal resources are being managed appropriately"
Meanwhile they took nearly half a year to make an unready button...
I rarely comment, but I have to agree with the points of the video.
I often joke with my friends that Starbreeze took months to add an "unready" button, when that stuff was in Payday 2 long, long ago. Looking at operation Medic Bag's roadmap, a good 99% of what's in there should have been there at launch. The game hardly feels like a horde shooter, because there's so few enemies on the map at any given point although the level design *somewhat* compensate for it by having smaller maps, not counting UTS and 99.
Objective variety is a nightmare, and some of the existing objectives are just boring, namely, the circles. Boring at launch, boring 8 months later. If those circles were a randomized objective and we'd only see them like one time out of five, they'd be an incredible and fresh mechanic. A few examples : on Gold & Sharke Loud, instead of having the circles by default, why not have the group switch levers, with the color changing after each one, like in stealth. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Or on Under The Surphaze, you could have the heisters go into the manager's office to lift the lockdown, less time consuming, but more varied. Or in 99 Boxes, where you could have a similar objective where you go all the way back to the office that was unused to locate the right yard, and hack it to open the container. All of that randomly, and I'm sure a team of developers can come up with more ideas that I could come up with as I'm writing this. Multiple objectives, make them random, with an equal chance of happening, and the game will be at least 50% more fun.
Narratively, the game feels linear on that point. You could essentially play for hours on Payday 2 and have no real idea of what the lore is, mainly because you'd be too busy fighting off the thousand of enemies the game was throwing at you, but also because most of the time, it was a larger plot at play, with the heist you were playing only being a small fraction. Whereas in Payday 3, you can see the line the game goes at, namely with missions such as Gold & Sharke, where you're here specifically to steal a server (and money while you're at it, but not the main point), server is encrypted, so you go to Touch the sky to get the key. One point of the heist narratives I'm really tired about is stealing tech. Road Rage, you steal Rare materials, 99 Boxes, you steal literal pieces of tech, Syntax error you steal drone data, so on and so forth. We're heisters with an epic legacy, so why not have a few heists specifically for money, because you need cashflow, then do something else, like taking revenge on those who attacked the gang? But sadly, that's not what we got, and the revenge part was carried out without the heisters' input. Let's see where we're going but it already could have been so much better.
I was incredibly excited for Payday 3, so much so that when the game was revealed, it was the only thing I was talking about for weeks. While playing the game now, it is fun with friends, but more because I get to spend time with them rather than the game itself. Hopefully they can fix the game and get it back on tracks to be an amazing game that people will remember for good reasons.
Payday was never meant to be a hoard shooter lol 😅 it's funny to fill an entire bank full of cops that would top the living population of California itself but at the same time it's unrealistic to have the cops retreat mid fight or to trade a hostage to uncuff a psychopath with a chainsaw!!! 😂 This game tried to go more realistic and cod like but failed dramatically 😂
@@Yami_Industries "Payday was never meant to be a hoard shooter lol 😅"
What?
Actually what the hell are you saying, at all? like, what are these fucking points?
@@Yami_Industries I can see what you're saying. However, based on how Payday 2 was, Payday 3 being a horde shooter in the proper sense of the term should have been a given. As I stated, it is somewhat compensated by the map being smaller, again not looking at UTS and 99 that have very large open spaces where the lack of enemy population may become noticeable.
On the point of being unrealistic, how realistic is a story based on ancient alien, because it's more or less confirmed that 3 is going off of 2's Kataru madness. If you're talking from a gameplay perspective, how realistic is it that you're essentially a bullet sponge? A single dozer should, by realism, morph you into swiss cheese in a second, given the fire rate and weapon he's using. That's not what happens though.
Moreover, who cares if the *game* is realistic, that's not the point of a game, except when it is specifically *the* point of the game. What matters is not realism, but coherence. When I shoot a wall, there needs to be an impact, when I take a civilian for a walk, he needs to, at the very least, look afraid for its life. Sure, you can have realistic elements in a game, but it should never take priority over the gameplay loop, the story you want to tell, or the mechanics you're trying to introduce to the player, except, as stated previously, when it's the point of the game, in which case, gameplay, story and mechanics will be designed for that.
I do have to agree with you on the fact that they tried to go more realistic and cod like, which is a massive mistake in the first place, and failed dramatically.
This really hurts because i love this game. I am one of those 70 or so people still playing on steam and man it hurts. This game honestly has a good foundation and i still have fun, but to say im hopeful would really be a stretch. There are some building points in this game that they could work off of but their track record says otherwise. I really want this game to become the titan that payday 2 was. But i dont know if i see it happening.
The issue is that Payday 2 became a "titan" (most people never played more than a handful of heists before giving it a pass honestly) after they changed it's identity honestly.
Kinda regret buying into PD3 after getting burned with PD2 already, sure hope that they this time around at least keep the identity that I bought the game for and don't change it to something different that's fun but not the product I literally bought.
Agreed I'm one of the few who still plays every week and it's hard to maintain hope by now. At this point it feels like they will just abandon this game after 2 years and move on. But I hope they flesh out pd3 because I have fun in the minute-to-minute gameplay. Just sad
I play in the US East server region - wish you luck man
Beartuck? That's a familiar name, hope ya been well.
@@Unknown_GeniusMost people bought it not for the bad systems, they deserve a game they want.
Helldivers 2 was the final nail in the coffin. Haven’t even touched PD3 since the Syntax Error update. Might come back to it, probably won’t.
I still think it really sucks for all the people who were on the initial media tour and had no choice but to languish during launch because they already released their positive videos before it all went to shit immediately after
Part of the problem is Payday 2 never stopped being developed. It got too much content. It got too many updates and refinement. On paper, a ten year gap between a game and it's sequel is plenty- but Payday 2 *Isn't* a game from 2013. Not when it received constant updates, balance changes, maint, new content, graphical upgrades, engine tweaks- the game still looks great and runs great.
If you cant improve the graphics and engine significantly, then you have to add new content to experience. New story, new writing, new equipment. Except- what's in Payday 3 is mostly recycled.
The only thing you feel when you play Payday 3 is the absence of what Payday 2 had.
Now add the obsessive monetization and unpopular features, the bugs, the matchmaking problems- you have a product doomed to fail.
Edge grit and rush are not fine, it's such useless busywork
what they should've done was just move all of payday 2 into a different game engine and add some new heists and some new mechanics and put it as payday 3. Not make an whole different game.
then it would've been an update to pd2 no?
To be fair, if they can salvage pd3, it'll probably turn into that in the end. Alot of the fixes being suggested in this video are literally stuff from pd2.
Can't say i'd disagree with you though.
Pd2 was the first game I bought on steam back in 2014. I remember it being one of the most fun gaming phases of my life. Sad to see the game has fallen so far since its glory days
You're the only reason I bought PAYDAY 3 and I am mad!!!!
Anyway, I'll die on the hill that Starbreeze partners were in the right to be hyped before launch. You guys got closed testing in a controlled environment for a limited amount of time with people you enjoy being around. It was probably some of the most fun you've had playing a PAYDAY game ever, if I had to guess. You simply told it as you were shown, and I don't think we can fault you guys for that. You didn't have time to see the cracks and had to give us an update about a game while you were in the honeymoon phase. It was a recipe for disaster.
If you bought a game just because a guy told you on the internet without checking anything out for yourself, I suggest seeking help
@@honkers112 I agree with you
yeah like i seep people throw alot of the blame at content creators, but if a company is being very restrictive with open and closed betas there's a reason, like we really only saw one heist from payday 3 until like launch month. i can't bet to mad at content creators hyping what we knew because what we knew of the game was literally the best part
@@redpanda4102 Like kknowely said though, he should've been more reserved considering the circumstances.
@@honkers112 weirdly aggressive thing to say to someone
I'm glad you keep being honest about Payday. Despite everything, I still trust you and keep watching your videos for your opinion. Ultimately, I think we all have been deceived with the launch of Payday 3.
I feel the same way. From what knowley could test of the game, it probably felt good, but Starbreeze obviously didn't give people the full game. The fundamental pieces people thought would be in the background were the parts that were missing. I probably would have made the same mistake.
Honestly just give me my damn offline mode. I'm tired of playing at a constant 200 ping because there aren't any servers in my country.
I don't feel like a criminal when i play this game
I don't feel its justified to spend 50% of my time in menues even if i'm playing offline
I don't feel its right to wait 2 years until we have basic features
I don't feel anything will change if the devs added 10 more "maps" that play like the ones we have
I almost pre-ordered a game for the first time in my life, and that game would have been Payday 3, partially because I loved payday and partially because you presented it the way you did. The only reason I didn't was because SBZ showed how little they care just a bit too early when they shat on Payday 2 and the community. I hope that you aren't as forgiving to their bs behavior and as blind to their flaws in the future.
Same, I love payday 2 a lot, but I'm really thankful that a friend convinced me not to pre-order, and now I'm happy to have dodged that bullet. I'm never even thinking about pre-ordering a game after PD3.
Anyone dumb enough to still keep pre ordering games in 2024 deserves to lose their money
@@raven75257 That's what refunds are for.
Doesn't matter if you pre-order it, buy it day 1 or buy it after a week, if you see that it's not for you you just get your money back, so pretty dumb statement.
@@Unknown_Genius It's unfortunate that, for most games, especially payday 3, you have to spend quite a bit more than 2 hours of gameplay to find if you like it or not, i.e. no rest for the wicked is the only heist to not have the circle objective.
@@wyoming2868 You can easily figure it out after 2h on most games honestly, PD3 included. The amount of games some people in my friends list tried and refunded it if they still weren't sure after 2h to avoid getting burned is rather high - and PD3 got a gameplay loop that you either highly like or dislike.
Also no rest for the wicked isn't the only heist without the circle objective. In general I don't even highly dislike that one, the main issue is how it's implemented, they could've easily used it in less heists and see how it goes/how to implement it better along the line or as an alternative for a longer route.
THE MAIN PROBLEM IS THE ARMOUR SYSTEM.
Everything comes down to this and it ruins the gameplay. We have 3 bars now which we fill up and run around until they are empty and then repeat the process. Health, armour, adrenaline. And resources from hostages lying around the map. To balance this they will introduce loud modifiers. Just go back to Payday 2 system. This was a constant push and pull with the cops, using cover and playing smart. Regenarating armour is the heart of Payday strategic playstyles and should stay untouched.
Everybody in public lobbies that I see wears adaptive armour but Mio doesnt have the balls to go full in to PD2 system and admit they made a mistake with armour as a resource and make changes to PD3.
The loud aspect of the game will never be good if that doesnt change. I bought Crime Boss beacuse it was on sale on PS Store and bro the loud gameplay is so much better then PD3! Why? Simply because of regenerating health. There is no armour, just a bar that is regenerating when You go back to cover and that one thing changes the whole feeling of a gunfight. You have to move wisely with bags, choose spots to cover and basically think about your next move. A simple system that worked in PDTH and in PD2 and now is working in Crime Boss atracting new players.
But here we have "death by thousand cuts" philopshy which has killed the Payday vibe and led to this big fuckin mess where they cannot balance the game and even think of a direction where it is going.
Starbreeze, Mio, please go back to PD2 style armour. Kknowley, please help by making another video touching on this subject, there are a few out there but your voice is strong and maybe if there is enough pressure they will evetually reconsider this
What makes the armor system effective in Payday 2 isn't just that it regenerates, but that the amount, regeneration speed and even style of regeneration is all customizable. Additionally, on higher difficulties the armor isn't even the most important part; several perk decks grant a small period of invulnerability after armor breaks which makes dealing with high-difficulty enemy damage even possible. Additionally, several decks and skills allow for armor to regenerate on dealing damage, which promotes staying engaged with enemies when possibly and adds survivability through other means than hiding.
What I mean to say is, they can't simply make armor regenerate, that's essentially what Adaptive Armor does already and it doesn't fill the gap left by Payday 2's system. The game needs a more nuanced system of damage mitigation than what exists currently, and that they are trying to fix it by adding a third bar of damage mitigation instead of improving the existing ones suggests they either don't understand what made Payday 2's armor good, or that they are refusing to implement something similar for the sake of "innovation". I understand what they were trying to create, but it's not what Payday players were looking for, and it wasn't very good besides.
@@xoeleox2079 @xoeleox2079 You are overcomplicating things like Mio tends to do. In general: PDTH and PD2 had regenerating armour. Mechanics like Anarchist or Stoic perk deck were just a variation of that system that came out after a few years. But the core of both previous games, the foundation for loud gameplay was the regenerating shield that YOU NEVER LOOSE.
Adaptive Armour didnt feel the gap because it is different to Payday2, this is just something to shut our mouths by saying "here You go, its almost like in PD2". The key word is "almost". In Payday2 the general idea of the game was that armour wasnt a resource and You always had that type of defence regerdless of the situation. Adaptive Armour in PD3 has 2 plates but You can loose both of them and when alone then regardless of how good You play You are still going to die. So its not like PD2 and will never be like PD2.
Now they are balancing 3 bars to fill up: armour/health/adrenaline, on top of that we have 2 deployables to match that bars and on top of all that we have mixed resources from hostages. And all that mess is simply because of the armour system. First everybody was bringing armour bags because that was the most important. So Mio added a skill line to buff medic bags and skill to get resources from hostages. Now its all OP so lets try loud modifiers. But the main problem lies in the very beginning of this chain - its the armour system. It affects everything in this game: the skills, the state of deployables, gameplay not rewarding being smart and the overall balance of things. Always having a shield that will come back would simplify many things and make the game more "strategic".
@@Rene1ACNEcrewWhat I have described isn't complicated. Armor regenerates, and the different ways players can choose to regenerate it create different play styles and solve different problems during high-level play. What they have now in Payday 3 *is* overcomplicated and doesn't solve the problem. Payday 2 armor wasn't that complex but its variations allowed depth.
@@xoeleox2079 With all due respect but this is overcomplicating things when You are going into discussion about different ways that players could regenerate armour.
PDTH and PD2 armour system in general - You take cover and dont get shot = your armour is quckly coming back. Even anarchist with its a bit different mechanic followed this rule.
Armour is not supoosed to be the resource. You can buff it with skills and make tweaks to how fast it regenerates, You can add skills like bullseye to create additional form of defense. There are many things You could do using skills to said armour. But stick to the roots, make it regenerate in cover and dont make it a resource. Delete the other lininigs in game, chamge the system, dont rework it giving us other forms of adaptive armour and make another mess. Delete armour bags, go back to PD2 system, thats how simple it is.
@@xoeleox2079And also when I say You are overomplicating things I refer to this sentence "what makes the armour systen in PD2 effective isnt that it jus regenerates but that the amount, the regeneratiin speed and even stule of regenerstion is all customizable".
This sentence is untrue and is complicating the discussion. Armour wasnt "customizable" in PD2 and worked the same for all perk decks apart from anarchist and stoic. Some perk decks buffed the armour and added another forms of survibabilty like part regeneration of armour when shooting cops but saying the armour was "costomizable" is just untrue.
Again armour in PD2 - not a resource, regenerates when in cover which encourages strategic gameplay. Stick to the roots of the game.
The reason The Butcher voice actress was unavailable was because she passed away in 2021. Mira Furlan (7 September 1955 - 20 January 2021)
And yet they used her face.
@@UnintelligibleYT so it seems. Maybe they had the rights to reuse her face?
One of the things I feel like Payday 3 lacks the most is the atmosphere or "vibe", Payday 2 was so silly and stupid and less serious than all other heisting games which made it unique but pd3 just feels too serious and generic
Even Payday The Heist had it's own separate atmosphere that PD3 lacks.
It oddly feels like it's trying to bridge the gap between pd the heist and pd2 and then ends up building said bridge on another continent.
Part of the problem is that it's not the same sound guy. Simon Viklund left to work on games like GTFO, so instead of synths and clicks for music, we got Oceans 11.
@@asialsky Nah I personally really like Gustavo Coutinhos music, it fit really well in the post white house era of pd2 as well. For me it's more just the tone and the "heavier" and more realisitic gunplay, lack of stupid skills etc
PD2 only became silly and stupid because of the gazillion paid DLC packs and the lack of competence from the balancing team. You can tell they wanted to return to their PD:TH roots with this game and start fresh, but it failed miserably.
What other heisting games?
I can think of like 2 besides Payday games.
That part about the set pieces of the heists in payday 3 makes me sad. I never played payday 3, and only the console version of payday 2. I didn’t know that the set pieces of the heist were so great when I played: it felt natural!
When you need to go in and out, it feels natural, when you need to tackle a greater challenge, it feels natural. The 3 act system of First World Bank blows my mind now that I think about it. You start in the bank and fight to get into the vault, taking time to hack open and drill open the door, then holding out in the vault room, where the feeling of being trapped in the vault with a bunch of cops on the other side waiting for you is just exhilarating (at least, the first time), and the escape where the upper hallway is blocked off and a van with a gun turret rams through the front door, serving as a “boss fight” as you scramble all the way into the back of the bank to escape. It makes me sad Payday 3 doesn’t have those ‘story arcs’ in the heists.
I miss the old skill system.
Honestly, I cannot see Payday 3 making a comeback. Payday 3 is just lacking so much content and missing so many iconic features and is a regression from Payday 2 in almost every way. You covered all bases really but by the time these issues might have been fixed I think it will be too late. I wish this wasn’t the case but that’s where we’re at.
When they announced that Payday 3 would be on the unreal engine, I knew it'd be very bland, less bland than I expected, but still very bland. It's sad how boring Payday 3 is compared to Payday 2.
I always just laughed the fact that flashes spawn out of thin air in payday 2. But let's be real: in a game where there is no cover peeking, and enemies that need line of sight to throw them there just wouldn't be flashbangs in the game. Greandiers are just literal example. How often do you get your ass gassed to the death while camping a 2 enterance room with 2 players? Never? Yeah i tought so.
Genuinely Overkill weapons threw such a wrench into game balancing
I think a significant issue with the idea of Edge, Grit, and Rush, is that they're inverse of what they were meant to be. When you have them, they're not a buff, you're at BASELINE. When you don't have them up, you are vulnerable. At least, it's how it feels.
Everything you talked about concerning the Grenadier's use of smokes has been present in earlier Payday games. If you are lingering at a choke or hallway, a smoke will be spontaneously dropped to either flush you out into police controlled territory, or allow the DCPD to push you back. If the gameplay was more punishing of stupid strategies while being enjoyable (like PD:TH), I think having a Special to do this (and not these utilities popping into existence on their own) would be really neat! And for the flashes, well, we already know about those.
$40+ for this, man. Absolute comedy.
It's weird how much worse the AI has gotten. I remember in Firestarter Day 2, I messed up the stealth and was drilling the server room, and was like "Huh, barely any cops filtering in, I might get an easy escape" and then when I stepped out the door I was met with like 60 heavy swats who were just holding position, and I got fully locked down until I eventually just died. Not sure how they're now so much worse in this game.
they weren't coming into the room because PD2 AI also sucks as much as PD3 AI
they weren't being "tactical" by holding the doorway and waiting for you to come out, their pathfinding broke for what ever reason
@@Moonistic They consistently will hold advantageous positions. Unless you're claiming the AI consistently breaks in the exact same way every time on different heists at different good chokepoints. They'll hold the top of the stairs in Day 1 Hotline Miami, they'll hold the vault entrance of GO Bank, they'll hold the storefront of Jewelry Store/Ukrainian Job, as well as the alleyway exits, Alesso Heist they absolutely hold the hell out of the upstairs portion before the pyrotechnics booth (where you zipline out the money).
I know some heists have very bad pathing, but I'm very sure they either go into an "ambush" state or certain nodes are marked for "ambush" which allows them to wait out without forcing an approach. You can usually hear them pathing near the entrance of the room, so they're still active, just choosing not to enter.
@@Winasaurus i've never ever seen them hold any kind of positions in PD2, even with mods that improve the AI in some sort of way
i've seen them all pile up right infront of the vault door in go bank, i've seen them swarm the pyrotechnics booth in alesso, i've seen them flood the big bank's vault
all they do is to path towards you and run into you like headless chickens
It's a shame I don't see a universe where Starbreeze finishes the game before going bankrupt.
I'm honestly so dissapointed they fumbled with payday 3. It was honestly so close to greatness. I think the gameplay was unironically really fun, I played it for like 40 hours and enjoyed every second of it, but they fumbled far too hard with the launch, and most importantly with the lack of replayability. The game just doens't have enough variety, especially within the limited heist pool, to maintain an active player base, and it breaks my heart because gameplay wise I genuinely think it is a good game.
Payday 2 already forecasted that the dev team simply does not known how to balance a game and that fun either was an accident or product of players making do. Whole decks were irrelevant and or had unreadable descriptions, skills frequently had unintended behaviors or where also next to useless and nevermind the weapons themselves full of reskins or p2w variants.
Anyone expecting Starbreeze to do anything but fuck this game up, is naive and hasnt't been paying attention. There were obvious signs of problems VERY early into PD2 and probably sooner. Spending 30 minutes on a video saying anything but, is a waste of time.
My man i feel your apology and mad respect. Watching a game you love essentially dying out sucks. Halo for me went the same way
No mods = no paper for the devs.
If I can't do stupid shit in payday what's even the point.
I want my Sucrose dakis, Klee van and the 9999 rpm machinegun back.
Where the fuck is my comically large spoon and chickenhead mask?! 😂
There are tons of mods for payday 3?
Payday 3 is the perfect example of " devs don´t always know whats best and good ideas are not always good mechanics".
The infamy and progressions system using achievements sounds decent, if you see someone really high level you would know they have played the game in many different ways to get those levels from achievements, but the problem comes when achievements are the ONLY way of leveling and 90% of them are boring grinding style of "kill 20 enemies with gun x, now do the same but 50 times, now do it by using headshots" and so on, achievements are a good way of encouraging weird or new styles of play but when they are forced, they stop being fun and become a grinding gate to new skills and content.
Armor system limiting the time in a heist is a decent idea of focusing the game on the HEIST part of the experience, your there to kills shit, shoot stuff, steal anything that´s not nailed down and leave in the fastest way possible, at least that´s the premise.
The problem comes when you get situations where the players just want to shoot stuff, when you are lost on what to do and are being killed not due to your lack of skill but due to slow and annoying chip damage you can do nothing about, player skill should be the limiter to a heists length, not some arbitrary chip damage that forces you to call it quits at a point and guess how that´s been done before, just get more cops, yeah i know what a shocking idea, no need to slowly bleed the players, just say "yeah, you think your tough, well here, lets see how tough you really are" and just send in a giant wave.
The story tries to be more serious, dark and mysterious, there are unknown forces at work, technology we know nothing about, shady characters that can´t be trusted, the usual heist movie stuff.
The problem comes when you take all that too far, why should we give a shit about mysterious friend from long ago when we know nothing about them, why should we care the cops have this magical AI that can apparently make crime impossible when we have seen it do nothing, why should we care about any of this when we, the players and in some parts the crew it self aren´t told anything, Bain earned the right to be mysterious by being the main contractor for 2 games in a row and a shit ton of heists as the voice in your head and the one giving you your briefings, talking about changes in plans, how someone double crossed you, how some cunt took your money, how the mysterious "The rat was Hector!? He used to say that there were a lot of stupid criminals in the world. Apparently he was one of them for thinking he could screw us over."
Bain had a personality to care about, we cared about him due to how much we had worked together, you don´t get attached to new characters just due to them talking all serious and brooding in the corner in some slightly shadowy part of the room.
Weapon grind i guess is meant to make each attachment mean more, in payday 2 we had dozens on attachments that never saw use due to there being just better ones and them either having an infinite supply of them or the packages being so common you had hundreds of them after some time.
The problem, attachments in payday 3 mean just as little as in 2, it just takes much longer to get them, why can´t we use money to buy a specific attachment early but for extra cost, why do we have to play hundreds of heist if we don´t want to cheese the leveling system, why aren´t there any ways to get levels aside from grinding, like the money we are stealing?
The skill system fell into a hole of its own making, we have too many skill points, too many skills, they are too easy to get and they combo either perfectly or not at all so a lot of the trees feel clunky or just useless, i can get ANY skill i want in 3 skill points, in payday 2 you had to invest in things like inspire, ICTV, Graze, Overkill or Dodge, you could not spend just 3 skill points to get anything and due to all skills being so easy to get we have no big boy skills, no skills that change how YOU can play the game and make new strategies possible, enable things that normally would lead to certain death, the system is too shallow and too much a nothing burger.
The heists are ok but forgettable and there is too little differences between them, we are apparently just getting back in the game but we have no jewelry heists, small gigs to get some money in the pockets, no every job is about the same size and while in cutscenes the characters talk about now having some money or having gotten access to this or that, these things have no impact on us, for the pocket money we do like 1 job and then our money problems are solved.
Also, we have no real setpiece heist, something big that really shows "we are so back, we can do the big boy things again" stuff like dropping the big in big bank, the giant money vault in golden grin, the diamond from the diamond and so on, the AI tries to be one but it really fails at it if were being honest, also needing 2 people minimum to do it is fucking lame and also, apparently this super AI can do nothing to us in its own house apart from saying a section is failing.
Daium! This must've been the best video I ever watched from a game reviewer. In under 15s you explained why you liked a flopped a title and how studios manage to do so with these poorly developed, rushed titles that are built around monetization and not gameplay loops!
Thanks!
I genuinely have no idea how Starbreeze managed to screw this up so badly. They had a great blueprint to follow with PD2, and they seem to have just thrown it out the window. Even just an engine port of the base version of PD2 would've been better than this mess.
My friends and I jumped on PD3 and after 2 hours went back and spent 10 on PD2
I wanna say this. I did pre-order Payday 3 gold edition because of your video and many other Payday content creators.
When I saw how you talked about no rest for the wicked and I also played the beta i had high hopes for the game because no rest for the wicked seemed like the standard bank heist but built upon it and I thought, if the first Heist is such an improvement from the standard Bank heist we got in Payday 2, how enormously complex and fun does a Big Bank recreation have to be. I grinded the hell out of Big Bank and Golden Grin and imagining the game being even more complex and fun and making me live the heisting fantasy was a dream come to.
When the final game came out i was one in a few who somehow didn't have issues with the servers but after i played every heist both loud and stealth, i was left feeling empty. I don't need to chew up what was and still is wrong with the game, lack of QoL features as well as the point mentioned in this video makes it a far inferior game to PD2 in every way except maybe parts of stealth.
Part of me blamed you but i also gotta say that i was caught up in the hype to realise what could be potentially wrong with the game, even after playing the beta.
I wanna see this game succeed but honestly I think that it's way too late. Especially with the pace of Operation medic bag, needing to take months to fix something like an unready button is outrageous and thinking of them fixing the AI making more heist variety seems to far fetched tbh.
Im glad you actually try to put solutions out instead of just hating the game. I would like to see it be atleast as fun as 2 not a hardcore heister but the mechanics even with 5min downtime pit falls of drills and timers it felt like a immersive sim. idk if its in 3 but i loved how you could launch bodys with shotguns and hide them without bags, very tackle this your own creative way.
As someone who loves a good leveling journey, the new progression and removal of challenges to level up might actually bring me back to the game, not for long, mind you but still
Den of wolves is gonna have an extremely easy time when in terms of competition
i have faith in 10C !
Honestly, if they just carbon copied the gameplay of Payday 2 into a new engine and then gave us the new maps, it would've been great. Too bad the industry leader Valve has shown us that that's not anywhere close to an option, even if it is easily possible in more capable hands.
Operation Medic bag has so far been a huge success so far. Fixing a lot of the issues the game has had at launch, to now being a game that it needed to be. The game has come a long way and has drastically improved since day 1. The first week of the game it was exciting to play but the game lacked so much and it just dragged on.... 5 months later my friend and I went back and it was completely different. Now today, I'd say the game is easily 9/10 it's fantastic, the heists are great, the modifiers make each one play differently, the weapons and leveling them feels fantastic.
This games such a dissapontment. I wish i didnt waste my money on this. A year later and the games still not worth it
This dude literally shilled this game for an entire year, not just "tricked" at launch, and is finally backpedaling now that they game is absolutely dead. Like he knows we can see his previous uploads right...?
As a solo player, most of your proposed buffs to special enemies sound like an absolute nightmare to me, namely Cloakers and Techies.
Cloakers spawn all the time and since bots are invisible to them, they either run across the entire map and suddenly kick me with no warning since they yell for half a second when they were far away, or they kick me .2 seconds after spawning and then scream. If I'm lucky my bots will kill them first or at least mark them so I can be ready to shoot them. Especially with the swat van nearby, Cloakers just keep infinitely respawning the instant I kill them. Sometines the ragdoll doesn't even stop moving before the other Cloaker spawns and kicks me. So it's dangerous to move more than three feet away frin their spawn to try and deal with the radar dish.
The techie just negates the very concept of taking cover and will just disable your entire build whenever they feel like it. And they don't even need a swat van, she just respawns turrets as quickly as you can kill them. And from anywhere on the map so I can't triangulate where she might. I just have to hope my bots mark her, or I can find her amidst all the chaos and insta-kill mechanics.
This game is very hostile to anybody that prefers solo play.
payday 3 is a heisting game while payday 2 is a heisting game that felt like a movie we are playing in. Payday 3 should go back to the Movie feel
Pd2 is clunky and to much meta play
@@xthijsbos6811My guy have you p l a y e d Payday 3
@@xthijsbos6811 Clunky is kinda the charm of it. Meta shit? I can't argue against that. But the best idea to combat it: Do not go above Death Wish. It's perfectly balanced and allows for far more build freedom than you think.
@@SirBinding THIS EXACTLY!
Much as I love experimenting in that game, it is WAY TOO TIED to a Meta, and far more than 2 is. I love playing it, but goddamn, the issues are glaringly obvious. I still have hope Overkill can fix it, which... admittedly is my finely brewed copium drink, but hey. Fine dining is not my specialty.
Fully disagree with going back to the movie feel.
While PD2 is fun, they've entirely deleted its original identity and essentially turned it into a game that I didn't buy and never asked for.
Starbreeze should take PD3, stick with the idea they had for it, but remove the obvious flaws that instantly became the meta (movie style unlimited ammo through picking up ammo upon killing enemies from a distance and instantly adding it to the magazine would be the biggest conteder for "wtf?" here).
There's just no point in quite literally always just taking away what people paid money for and turning it into something different, except for loosing the last bit of trust from their customer base.
I knew what PD3 would be and that's precisely why I bought it, except that I expected a far less optimized game with most of the standard cast in specials missing and way more bugs and general issues remembering the PD2 release. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have bought it given the previous handling of things, but I'll see if they this time around manage to redeem themselves or just turn it into a different game again with no hope for a refund.
I just wish we had payday 2 with UE4 graphics, i guess that is too much to ask of SBZ.
Good to know you can be bought
I pre-ordered Payday 3 with my friend and the only postivie we had is the gun color customization and that the Bulldozer looks like he is spraying thermite.
I think the lack of perk decks, fun skills and just overall the
"Arcade" aspect just isnt it.
Also no melee, so just... no
The real question is, does the creators of Payday deserve to be trusted again after how bad they treated their own community and ended up irreversibly damaging their own game and franchise.
It's so painfully obvious that this game was not made by the same people as Payday 2, and they just don't have any of the knowledge or experience required to build upon it and grow this game into something worth playing. That is quite a shame because this game had so much potential.
As one of the 2 people who play Payday 3, I can confirm, our bonds are strong.
Ah! The other active player! Good to see you!
@@alpine115 My homie.
Payday 3 is way better than it has been specially with friends almost 150 lol been grinding last 2 weeks
@@willskidman I was dedicated enough to literally BUY this game for my friends. I've loved it, but man, it's demanding.
@nylonzero9048 Oh, trust me, I did the same, bought all the dlc and games for friends, and I bought the gold edition for myself, we have been grinding to get to 150 I'm 145 and dang it's a grind but just from launch to now its way better, it's moving in the right direction but I think people are being way to critical
I want to say good on you for acknowledging your views have changed. I think your opinions during the pre-release weren't naive. Many others, myself included, were excited and held high hopes on launch. Many things were either unpredictable, or came up in hindsight. Launch problems, the slow pace of new content, and the lack of reliability aren't easy to predict and the poor progression system, the general washout of the unique payday universe and such we chalked up to the fact the game wasn't out yet.
Either way, I'm a big fan of the channel and thanks again for stepping up to the plate.
Ya know I always forget the game takes place in New York, because 1 heist takes place in the street, 2 IF you have to use the helicopter at the Jewelry store.
We REALLY need the getaway failures and more objective rng
please, no escapes, oh dear god
It's really weird that developers of PD2 looked at all the things people loved about the game, saw how passionate and supportive their community was, and then decided to make a completely different game from what people wanted.
I really value the apology in the intro. There are so many youtubers that sacrifice all sort of honesty and emotion in the name of building hype and it geninuenly sometimes helps in killing games, Destiny 2 being a good example. Hearing you make amends is geniunenly awesome.
i hope Starbreeze is currently that one sponge bob meme and going "WRITE THAT DOWN! WRITE THAT DOWN!" cuz especially the thing with expanding the heist and the suggestions you made about the armor system sound so epic
1:05 "Burn the rot away" what a great use of a DS3 quote haha
Thing with Payday 3 is that they ACTIVELY turned their nose up on their audience, they went against everything that people told them, and were arrogant. Now they're experiencing the repercussions of that. They were told, SEVERAL TIMES by community that ALWAYS ONLINE WAS A FULL STOP DEAL BREAKER. They thought they knew better, they thought they were the ones who determine things. Not understanding that you make a product that the market wants and needs, not the product you think the market SHOULD WANT. I player several thousands of hours of Payday 2, and several hundred of Payday the Heist. I tried Payday 3, 3 different times on friends accounts, because I reguse to support them, I refuse to have that game on my account. Even as a refunded game.
Dont get me wrong in terms of game play, purely from mechanics standpoint it is ok, gun play is ok, hell most of the game is OK, but OK doesnt cut it when you ACTIVELY GO AGAINST YOUR COMMUNITY. When you wanna say "FUCK YOU" to your community you need a game that is so good it can do that, being just OK gets you a big middle finger and a boycott that can and has killed several studios.
"your opinion my choice" all over again :D
@@arpadkovacs8671 essentially...
I'm still mad about the lack of akimbos and secondary smgs.
My biggest gripe with the game is the skilltree, it's absolutely unreadable and unswallowable. The UI sucks and it's SUPER confusing about what goes well together or not. It needs some sort of recap screen to show all your active skills to see easily what will be the effects ingame, or something else idk. On top of of course, the skills themselves.
Also about the Ui, it baffles me that SOMEONE saw the skilltree UI, which is long like a wikipedia page about Elvis Presley, and said "yep, easy to navigate and very clear".
All we wanted was payday 2 in a new engine with some new weapons and new heists
It's crazy. When this game came out, I didn't have a job, I was one of the highest level people playing the game because of how much I grinded and looked at all the youtube video tips and tricks. After getting every gun, getting tons of cash, buying the stuff I wanted, and grinding through TONS of the challenges for each weapon and map, I just stopped playing. Now since starting my new job 7 months ago, I haven't played payday 3 once. I just figured I'd check in to see, "what's up" and this youtuber who I loved at the time, posted this video 2 weeks ago. It seems kind of like fate. I used to grind and watch this guy. Now after not playing, he posts a video in a relatively similar timeline to me checking into the game. I wonder how many other people were huge fans, never played any other paydays, but still just got bored of the repetitive gameplay
Congrats on starting the new job! Hope everything outside of Payday 3 is going great for you!
800 playerbase
its dead bro, let it rest in peace
*piss
Don't blame yourself for believing someone else would actually do their job.
You shouldn't have and there were plenty of clues, but Starbreeze had all the information and skill to get it right, and the duty to do so.
I dont know, comparing Elden Ring's weapon variety to Payday 3 is kind of a long stretch.
the guy has played only 3-5 different games in his life, give him a break, he has no frame of reference