I'm a plumber is Los Angeles I sincerely appreciate you sharing your experiences and knowledge, I have a far greater appreciation for the art of plumbing watching videos like this, respect to all the ones that come before us.
I’m an apprentice from Milwaukee. I worked with a couple old plumbers from Chicago years back and they would tell me about pouring let joints in the high rises downtown. I was always jealous that they still did them as it’s a part of plumbing history. Shout out to Jeff, Dave, Jake and Marty
@@RogerWakefield I always enjoyed the lead and oakum joints, that was when plumbers were plumbers. I had one young plumber tell one day, if he had started back then, he would not have made it.
I remember my Uncle doing this in the basement on a drain repair. It was probably the late 1980s. He became a plumber in the 1950s so he was very familiar with this obviously. I always thought it was a really cool technique.
That's a nice piece of soil pipe work, sir. Cast iron toilet flanges are what I see a lot of newcomers struggle with in more recent days. I'd like to see you perform a cast iron offset toilet flange install on this channel. The flange that has a 2" offset is a bit of a bear. I had to do several of them over the years and struggled mightly as there was no one to properly train me on it. Had to learn from my own mistakes on call backs.
I always feel a bit of sympathy when the architect lays out the bathroom so a joist runs right through the middle of where the toilet needs to be and nobody sees what the problem is until the plumber gets there.
Nice to see traditional drainage from back in the day when plumbers where real tradesmen. I had to drive from Sussex in England to London to show a young plumber how to do a lead caulked joint on a 8' interceptor
30 plus years ago when I helped load coal into barges on the Monongahela River out of a coal mine tipple, we used oakum, wooden wedges, and wood blocking to temporary seal holes in rusty 40 year old barges. We had to look in the gunnel openings of each loaded barge, put a pump in if there was water. Next climb down inside to see where the leak was and to try to plug it with oakum, wedges, and blocking. If the leak was major, call the boat to take it to get unloaded. Never lost one in the 10 years I worked out there.
Nice! Every once and a while here in Baltimore we will break out and replace a cast iron closet flange and pack with lead and oakum. Better than the plastic repair flanges in some cases.
As a young enough plumber (34)coming from New Orleans. Fell into it after Katrina. I’ve had to pack and pour a few years ago. My predecessor taught me how to de- lead and re install cast where pvc won’t fit. Lost art Roger.
Oakum is made from Jute and tar. I go one strand at a time first for about 4 times around. The final strands I'll twist together to force them down tight. If you twist all of them like a rope I figure it has very little space to expand. Keep your running rope in the box with oakum to soak up that oil and stay soft. You can use a little plumbers putty at the top of the rope to keep it from spilling out.
Just what I need a reason to buy even more tools🎉😂I'm learning a lot of plumbing now and I've seen some oakum joints and it's nice to know what's going on with them. Preciate the knowledge!
These videos are extremely watchable and sharable. This occupies the same space where people with combat experience in the military put out videos explaining and articulating doctrine and how systems are employed; where you are doing the same thing for people in construction and service. Thank you
When you crawl about 30 ft under an old house with a couple feet of clearance and you can see that someone took pride in their work doing it the hard old fashion way. It gives me chills and motivation to not slack off.
I am one of the old plumbers who made lead joints before pvc. The work was hard and heavy. I had the privalge of working with the old timers who had done it all. People u to tell me how big my arms were for a short man. Plumbing is a great trade in it self but plastic made it easier and u didnt breath the lead when we poured joints
great video...this and soldering should always be taught to the new guys coming up......steve lav has good videos on replacding broken closet flanges doing this..
Many sites don't allow hot work or have extensive hot work permitting requirements now. One of the criteria for permitting is that it won't be granted if an equivalent non-hot work process complies with code and engineering requirement, which in most cases press connect and compression fittings do.
I work in a hospital where there is one building from 1958 and two from the 1930s I believe... All the drains are done this way. More problems with the cast cracking than any of the lead and oakum joints failing but it does happen
I have used a product called Black Swan Soil O lead substitute instead of lead on a couple occasions here in East Los Angeles. It gets hard like cement and sealed well but still requires oakum
I got my ticket in canada. I never really understood how these joints worked because its is banned in here. They wouldn't even let the instructers show us with hazmat suits lol. I really appreciate this video for the knowlege of the trade even though I'll probably never use it.
Great video, sir! Have to deal with this stuff at the apartments I work at. Now that we know how to make one, how about a video on how to properly disassemble one in a safe manner?
I have seen videos of people essentially drilling holes all around the lead and take a chisel to get the pieces out then pull out the oakum. Super tedious and time consuming. On remodels almost everyone just cuts the cast iron (not at a joint) and uses a fernco no hub coupling. No point dissasembling, just cut it out
Are lead and oakum joints still code compliant? For example, if someone needed work done, and it's clear they need new joints, do you replace with a new lead and oakum joint, or tear it out and use pvc,
I know both hvac techs and electricians deal with electrical, but are hvac guys less likely to be shocked or killed? Also around here the plumbers union pays more than hvac, but which one generally pays more working for yourself? Thanks
What a freaking nightmare!!! That's just one joint, imagine a whole house! Try that on your back under a 18" crawl space! I would have never gotten into plumbing if I had to do that! Thank God for PVC!
I went into a plumbing supply here in Terrell,Tx the other day looking for a tip for my old acet-o-lite torch ..... the countermen looked at me like a monkey doing a math problem ... Next time ima ask for some lead and oakum!.... That'll get em confused.
Don’t they wax the rope so the lead doesn’t stick to it. Is that why your hand were sticky from handling the old one. I know that’s how you do a wiped joint
I could see this process being more forgiving than PVC/Chem welding though. If the clocking is off or something doesn't line up, heat the joint and make the adjustment? I've never done a lead/oakum joint though, so I have no idea; messed up a few PVC joints though
Just starting "plumbing" a few years ago in a shower remodeling business. It is humbling and fascinating to see what the masters of old had to do each and every day as they built America. Thank you for doing this Roger. And thank God for PVC!
in USSR we had these same style bell and fitting cats iron pipes, but we never used lead we used tar soaked very sticky and malleable oakum, we would smash that in as deep as possible then pour molten tar into the fitting and that would be it. Sometimes the tar was in short supply so in order to finish the job plumbers would use cement powder and would make a very thick paste from pure cement, as it would cure to be very hard, and it would be mixed with oakum and stuffed into the hub and would cure on the next day. You can still find pipes in old soviet apartment blocks with cast iron pipes joint with cement and they still go strong, very little leaks. Its the tar that was leaking. it was much faster, much cheaper and much less labor intensive.... and yes, that is the reason why now all soviet pipes laid in 70s and 80s are now leaking everywhere they were installed because tar is not a long term solution as it gets brittle, and as the pipe moves from seasons or cold/hot water it crackles the tar and starts to leak after some years.
Here in Chicago we still use cast iron all the time. It's all that's allowed in commercial plumbing. I work 99% of the time in high rises and that's all we use is cast iron. For under ground we use push gaskets and everything else is lead and oakum. That one iron you said was an offset iron that was set to 1" is actually a ceiling iron. It's used when you have a hub tight to the ceiling and can't get in there with regular irons
Why the hell doesn't the city of Chicago allow PVC? I live in NJ and my dad was a union plumber retired about 10 years now. They started allowing PVC in commercial buildings in like the 90s here. Crazy Chicago still doesn't
They say for fire rating and that cast is less noisy than pvc but I think that our union is the biggest reason. Pvc is much easier to do than cast and using pvc would take a lot less work.
@@ObservationofLimits yea unless u are a brother or cousin of a big wig in the union all they do is take ur money. Or if u know how to work ur knee pads very well for them 🤣
Great lesson with this one, Roger!! I really enjoy learning about the history of the trade. You're not only a highly skilled plumber, but a great educator as well. Love the videos, my man 🤘
It’s a neat way to create a joint. Been plumbing myself for about 10years in Canada and have come across this a few times. It’s nice to see the history of plumbing and when you can make connections from the classroom theory to real life and have a “oh so that’s what that looks like” moment. But naturally advances in plumbing make that style of connection obsolete with CISP and MJ’s/Furncos Heck even CISP is somewhat obsolete in particular situations in comparison to plastics now days.
New England Plumber here- you know you are getting old when your skills are a novelty on TH-cam. I thought I was the last guy with a ceiling iron. 😀😀Great job Roger.
Love it! I have not poured a lead joint in 20 years. Thanks for the video, and remember, if it wasn't for plumbers, people would have no place to go.. LOL
You forgot to mention the maximum your lead is allowed to be underneath the lip. In NC, you have to have a 1 inch pour and it cannot be more than 1/8th inch below the top of the collar. We mostly use bands, but government work sometimes requires lead and oakum.
Last time I saw this was on a commercial high rise in Miami in 1981. Job was union, I was a carpenter's helper on the formwork crew. The plumbers were great, taught me a bunch, they really wanted to help the young guys. Thanks for the video!
Thank you Roger that gave me a better understanding of the times when my Father would make such connections when I was just getting to the trade. he passed in 2007 and I wish I had more time to learn those skills before he died
Plumber from the UK. Lots of old houses over here. Cast iron pipes everywhere, regularly come across lead waste pipes and occasionally come across lead water mains. Surprisingly non of this old-school stuff was taught to me in collage, had to learn it all on the job or from TH-cam vids like this one. Thanks Roger 👍
Old school soldering of lead like this break's building regs in the UK. Can only use leadlok fittings to join existing lead pipework to new. Or preferably remove the lead completely.
That is incredible. I have worked with PVC to cast iron transitions for years and have always wondered how these oakum and lead joints were made. It's nice to see knowledge like this being passed on instead of lost.
My old man (born in ‘24, died in 01) was a plumber, and suffered from copd. I suspect the fumes from hunching down in a corner and pouring lead and oakum joints didn’t really help. Funny to watch him - he never could walk past a pipe without gauging if it was straight or not…
An old school plumber taught us how to pour lead joints in apprenticeship school. I’ve never had to pour one in the field, but I at least know the process of I’m in a jam. Better question, how do I get the lead out If I’ve got a hub at the floor, and maybe I need to put a tie seal gasket in and transition to pvc. Much appreciated. Thanks. Much love from Ohio.
If you're not trying to save the old pipe that's in the hub, just remove the old pipe out with a hammer and chisel. You have to place the wedge of the chisel between the lead and the old pipe and drive the chisel inward to get the old pipe out. Once you get a nice chunk of the old pipe out, you can start caving in the rest of it pretty easily. Don't forget to stuff a rag or something into the pipe down past your working area to keep from getting large chunks of debris into the existing waste piping! Certainly don't forget to pull the rag out when you're done either! Once you get the old pipe out, the old lead and oakum should come out pretty easily by driving the lead inward with the chisel. Clean the inside of the hub out real well if you intend on using a rubber gasket to make the new PVC transition.
Great video. Done a fair amount of commercial renovations, and I always respected the work that the older plumbers did before me. Plumbers back then were really amazing skilled hands. I myself have never needed to do this on a actual job, but it is a skill that must be taught, to have in your back pocket if ever needed.
Another tip is to add a ball of plumbers putter under the triangle where your lead runner is clamped. Prevents lead from coming out. I’m 31 plumbing for about 13 years now. I pour lead joints whenever I can I enjoy the process. Also sometimes easier if the hub of cast is at floor level.
They still teach this method in the military. Military plumbers working in other countries may encounter all sorts of plumbing technologies that are no longer popular here in the states.
I have an old Clayton and Lambert plumber's furnace. It was used to melt lead before propane was available, and it ran on this stuff called "white gas" which was basically just the unleaded gas of that time, very much like today's Coleman fuel. The thing is a monstrosity, it's EXTREMELY loud when It's running, and it shoots out massive fireballs while it's preheating. But it's a really beautiful tool, even if it's obsolete
2nd year apprentice from Canada here, I work in an older city so I come across a lot of this in service and it’s unfortunate I haven’t been taught to make a lead and oakum joint. Usually we slap a fernco coupling and change to ABS pipe
Torn a lot of cast iron on remodels, new plumber of 6 years, but never once seen or had it explained how it’s done. I guess because no one knows. I Love your channel very much and I use what you teach everyday. This video was definitely necessary!
I have poured many a joint in my days as a plumber in San Francisco. My father was also a plumber and he used to wipe lead joints. By chance do you have a video of doing that?
For some reason, I have found plumbing to be interesting since I was a kid making contraptions of pipe in the 60s and early 70s. I am also the weird guy who like to learn to do things "the old way". I took this to an extreme and still shave with a straight razor. I've read about and understood the principle of the lead and oakum joint but this was the first time I have ever actually seen one.THANKS!!
I’ve been in the trade for 6+ years. And have run into kitec pipe frequently here in Louisiana. Just curious do you see much of it. And if so how do you handle the issues it comes with?
I'm a plumber is Los Angeles I sincerely appreciate you sharing your experiences and knowledge, I have a far greater appreciation for the art of plumbing watching videos like this, respect to all the ones that come before us.
Plumbers protect the health of the nation everyday 💪🏻 and everyday that came before
I'm 75 years old welder, I've never seen this done, I love it !!
THANKS
I’m an apprentice from Milwaukee. I worked with a couple old plumbers from Chicago years back and they would tell me about pouring let joints in the high rises downtown. I was always jealous that they still did them as it’s a part of plumbing history.
Shout out to Jeff, Dave, Jake and Marty
This video brings back a lot of memory. I started out this way. Love your videos.
How did you like it?
@@RogerWakefield I always enjoyed the lead and oakum joints, that was when plumbers were plumbers. I had one young plumber tell one day, if he had started back then, he would not have made it.
I remember my Uncle doing this in the basement on a drain repair. It was probably the late 1980s. He became a plumber in the 1950s so he was very familiar with this obviously. I always thought it was a really cool technique.
I value this information. My grandfather who was a plumber in Chicago showed me how to do this 20 years ago, good to remember
That's a nice piece of soil pipe work, sir. Cast iron toilet flanges are what I see a lot of newcomers struggle with in more recent days. I'd like to see you perform a cast iron offset toilet flange install on this channel. The flange that has a 2" offset is a bit of a bear. I had to do several of them over the years and struggled mightly as there was no one to properly train me on it. Had to learn from my own mistakes on call backs.
I always feel a bit of sympathy when the architect lays out the bathroom so a joist runs right through the middle of where the toilet needs to be and nobody sees what the problem is until the plumber gets there.
did plenty of 2"offset flanges, they do present a challenge.
Nice to see traditional drainage from back in the day when plumbers where real tradesmen. I had to drive from Sussex in England to London to show a young plumber how to do a lead caulked joint on a 8' interceptor
30 plus years ago when I helped load coal into barges on the Monongahela River out of a coal mine tipple, we used oakum, wooden wedges, and wood blocking to temporary seal holes in rusty 40 year old barges. We had to look in the gunnel openings of each loaded barge, put a pump in if there was water. Next climb down inside to see where the leak was and to try to plug it with oakum, wedges, and blocking. If the leak was major, call the boat to take it to get unloaded. Never lost one in the 10 years I worked out there.
Nice! Every once and a while here in Baltimore we will break out and replace a cast iron closet flange and pack with lead and oakum. Better than the plastic repair flanges in some cases.
As a young enough plumber (34)coming from New Orleans. Fell into it after Katrina. I’ve had to pack and pour a few years ago. My predecessor taught me how to de- lead and re install cast where pvc won’t fit. Lost art Roger.
It is a lost art. Do you enjoy it?
Thank you Roger for sharing this with us. Been plumbing for just over 30 yrs and have never done a lead and oakum joint.
You don't know how much I love the old plumbing I love my cast iron and copper pipe
I'm definitely old school when it comes to plumbing
Oakum is made from Jute and tar.
I go one strand at a time first for about 4 times around. The final strands I'll twist together to force them down tight. If you twist all of them like a rope I figure it has very little space to expand. Keep your running rope in the box with oakum to soak up that oil and stay soft. You can use a little plumbers putty at the top of the rope to keep it from spilling out.
Just what I need a reason to buy even more tools🎉😂I'm learning a lot of plumbing now and I've seen some oakum joints and it's nice to know what's going on with them. Preciate the knowledge!
Hardly ever hear the old timers talk about that anymore. Video was badassness, love you bro. ‘Hook em’.
🤘🏽
These videos are extremely watchable and sharable. This occupies the same space where people with combat experience in the military put out videos explaining and articulating doctrine and how systems are employed; where you are doing the same thing for people in construction and service. Thank you
Thanks for the memories, I helped my grand father do that 54 years
Super interesting - I'm not in the trade (controls engineer) but love seeing how they used to do things back in the day :)
When you crawl about 30 ft under an old house with a couple feet of clearance and you can see that someone took pride in their work doing it the hard old fashion way. It gives me chills and motivation to not slack off.
NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TODAY KNO WHAT REAL WORK TRULEY IS OR INVOLVES
They did it before the house was built and built the the house around it. No crawling 30’.
@@pjplumber2146 ya dude just cut a hole through the floor.
I am one of the old plumbers who made lead joints before pvc. The work was hard and heavy. I had the privalge of working with the old timers who had done it all. People u to tell me how big my arms were for a short man. Plumbing is a great trade in it self but plastic made it easier and u didnt breath the lead when we poured joints
great video...this and soldering should always be taught to the new guys coming up......steve lav has good videos on replacding broken closet flanges doing this..
So Cool! I really like these plumbing history videos, it's very engaging because it gives a sense of belonging /identity.
I've always wondered how horizontal joints were done. I've only done a few cast iron flange installations with lead and oakum. Neat video!
I pour lead and oakum joints when I connect plastic pipe to a cast iron hub with a manoff sleeve.
Great video, Roger! I remember as a boy, in Philadelphia (South Philly), I’d see the lateral/street trap done this way… It is a legacy, hands-down!
Many sites don't allow hot work or have extensive hot work permitting requirements now. One of the criteria for permitting is that it won't be granted if an equivalent non-hot work process complies with code and engineering requirement, which in most cases press connect and compression fittings do.
I work in a hospital where there is one building from 1958 and two from the 1930s I believe... All the drains are done this way.
More problems with the cast cracking than any of the lead and oakum joints failing but it does happen
Mr Wakefield you sure have a nice shop. And those tools...heh heh those old tools will outlive us all. They won't break. Lol
🙂😁
Excellent information sir
Bravo Roger👏🏾 . NYC school construction authority still requires lead and oakum undergrounds.
Great video. Good to see this stuff.
We have it so easy now
We really do...which isn't necessarily a bad thing...
Found some of those irons and thought they were chisels at first but noticed they weren't sharp. Now I know!
I have used a product called Black Swan Soil O lead substitute instead of lead on a couple occasions here in East Los Angeles.
It gets hard like cement and sealed well but still requires oakum
Wow very interesting! Takes so such time to do 1 joint
I got my ticket in canada. I never really understood how these joints worked because its is banned in here. They wouldn't even let the instructers show us with hazmat suits lol. I really appreciate this video for the knowlege of the trade even though I'll probably never use it.
thanks, great video.
Add a lead bend to that to finish off the fixture unit.
Great video, sir! Have to deal with this stuff at the apartments I work at. Now that we know how to make one, how about a video on how to properly disassemble one in a safe manner?
I have seen videos of people essentially drilling holes all around the lead and take a chisel to get the pieces out then pull out the oakum. Super tedious and time consuming. On remodels almost everyone just cuts the cast iron (not at a joint) and uses a fernco no hub coupling. No point dissasembling, just cut it out
That must of been hard back in the day sheeesh
Are lead and oakum joints still code compliant? For example, if someone needed work done, and it's clear they need new joints, do you replace with a new lead and oakum joint, or tear it out and use pvc,
All around the New York area it is still used and required on some work.
I know both hvac techs and electricians deal with electrical, but are hvac guys less likely to be shocked or killed? Also around here the plumbers union pays more than hvac, but which one generally pays more working for yourself? Thanks
What a freaking nightmare!!! That's just one joint, imagine a whole house! Try that on your back under a 18" crawl space! I would have never gotten into plumbing if I had to do that! Thank God for PVC!
Nice
Man thank the Lord that we invented PVC drain pipes. This looks tedious as hell. Old school plumbers had it rough.
In my basement I repacked the joint where the sewer exits the wall.
Its a skill to at least be aware of how it works.
Anyone who uses the term “wallago” speaks my language for sure.
I went into a plumbing supply here in Terrell,Tx the other day looking for a tip for my old acet-o-lite torch ..... the countermen looked at me like a monkey doing a math problem ... Next time ima ask for some lead and oakum!.... That'll get em confused.
A lot of work for one joint. No wonder old school trades men are more mechanically inclined
Nyc plumbers still do this on the daily some buildings require it.
We do lead joints chicago local 130
But how to unjoint them?
Do hou have any video?
Coming soon!
Roger, show them the lead pick and a drill!!!
Don’t they wax the rope so the lead doesn’t stick to it. Is that why your hand were sticky from handling the old one. I know that’s how you do a wiped joint
Are new plumbers required to learn this as part of their plumbing licensure?
I was in NYC and part of Long Island in 2005. Also wiping a lead joint. I believe they stopped that requirement now.
Workers of lead
That's what we are!💪💪
I am a retired plumber. I remember that process. Real tedious. Plumbers today have it alot easier.
Very tedious! 💪🏻
I could see this process being more forgiving than PVC/Chem welding though. If the clocking is off or something doesn't line up, heat the joint and make the adjustment? I've never done a lead/oakum joint though, so I have no idea; messed up a few PVC joints though
I can’t imagine piping in an entire house in cast like this. How long would this have taken a plumber?
Nice
Just starting "plumbing" a few years ago in a shower remodeling business. It is humbling and fascinating to see what the masters of old had to do each and every day as they built America. Thank you for doing this Roger. And thank God for PVC!
We still use that method some times.. Probably a lot more common than you would think. Mainly on toilet flanges..
in USSR we had these same style bell and fitting cats iron pipes, but we never used lead we used tar soaked very sticky and malleable oakum, we would smash that in as deep as possible then pour molten tar into the fitting and that would be it. Sometimes the tar was in short supply so in order to finish the job plumbers would use cement powder and would make a very thick paste from pure cement, as it would cure to be very hard, and it would be mixed with oakum and stuffed into the hub and would cure on the next day. You can still find pipes in old soviet apartment blocks with cast iron pipes joint with cement and they still go strong, very little leaks. Its the tar that was leaking. it was much faster, much cheaper and much less labor intensive.... and yes, that is the reason why now all soviet pipes laid in 70s and 80s are now leaking everywhere they were installed because tar is not a long term solution as it gets brittle, and as the pipe moves from seasons or cold/hot water it crackles the tar and starts to leak after some years.
Suprised they didn't use lead. Lead is super cheap in the USA
Here in Chicago we still use cast iron all the time. It's all that's allowed in commercial plumbing. I work 99% of the time in high rises and that's all we use is cast iron. For under ground we use push gaskets and everything else is lead and oakum. That one iron you said was an offset iron that was set to 1" is actually a ceiling iron. It's used when you have a hub tight to the ceiling and can't get in there with regular irons
Why the hell doesn't the city of Chicago allow PVC? I live in NJ and my dad was a union plumber retired about 10 years now. They started allowing PVC in commercial buildings in like the 90s here. Crazy Chicago still doesn't
They say for fire rating and that cast is less noisy than pvc but I think that our union is the biggest reason. Pvc is much easier to do than cast and using pvc would take a lot less work.
@@gobulls372 i agree its the union. They say its to keep the trade alive
@@alexstoles1339 unions are garbage
@@ObservationofLimits yea unless u are a brother or cousin of a big wig in the union all they do is take ur money. Or if u know how to work ur knee pads very well for them 🤣
Great lesson with this one, Roger!! I really enjoy learning about the history of the trade. You're not only a highly skilled plumber, but a great educator as well. Love the videos, my man 🤘
I appreciate that, I had a lot of fun doing this
That seems like a lot of very hard work compared to running PVC. I hope old school plumbers were paid well.
You know they weren’t
@@gary00832 I know I'm not.
Unfortunately they were not, this took skill
It’s a neat way to create a joint. Been plumbing myself for about 10years in Canada and have come across this a few times. It’s nice to see the history of plumbing and when you can make connections from the classroom theory to real life and have a “oh so that’s what that looks like” moment. But naturally advances in plumbing make that style of connection obsolete with CISP and MJ’s/Furncos
Heck even CISP is somewhat obsolete in particular situations in comparison to plastics now days.
They were yoked out of their minds though
New England Plumber here- you know you are getting old when your skills are a novelty on TH-cam. I thought I was the last guy with a ceiling iron. 😀😀Great job Roger.
Love it! I have not poured a lead joint in 20 years. Thanks for the video, and remember, if it wasn't for plumbers, people would have no place to go.. LOL
You forgot to mention the maximum your lead is allowed to be underneath the lip. In NC, you have to have a 1 inch pour and it cannot be more than 1/8th inch below the top of the collar. We mostly use bands, but government work sometimes requires lead and oakum.
Last time I saw this was on a commercial high rise in Miami in 1981. Job was union, I was a carpenter's helper on the formwork crew. The plumbers were great, taught me a bunch, they really wanted to help the young guys. Thanks for the video!
Thank you Roger that gave me a better understanding of the times when my Father would make such connections when I was just getting to the trade. he passed in 2007 and I wish I had more time to learn those skills before he died
Plumber from the UK. Lots of old houses over here. Cast iron pipes everywhere, regularly come across lead waste pipes and occasionally come across lead water mains. Surprisingly non of this old-school stuff was taught to me in collage, had to learn it all on the job or from TH-cam vids like this one. Thanks Roger 👍
Old school soldering of lead like this break's building regs in the UK. Can only use leadlok fittings to join existing lead pipework to new. Or preferably remove the lead completely.
That is incredible. I have worked with PVC to cast iron transitions for years and have always wondered how these oakum and lead joints were made. It's nice to see knowledge like this being passed on instead of lost.
My old man (born in ‘24, died in 01) was a plumber, and suffered from copd. I suspect the fumes from hunching down in a corner and pouring lead and oakum joints didn’t really help. Funny to watch him - he never could walk past a pipe without gauging if it was straight or not…
An old school plumber taught us how to pour lead joints in apprenticeship school. I’ve never had to pour one in the field, but I at least know the process of I’m in a jam.
Better question, how do I get the lead out If I’ve got a hub at the floor, and maybe I need to put a tie seal gasket in and transition to pvc. Much appreciated. Thanks. Much love from Ohio.
If you're not trying to save the old pipe that's in the hub, just remove the old pipe out with a hammer and chisel. You have to place the wedge of the chisel between the lead and the old pipe and drive the chisel inward to get the old pipe out. Once you get a nice chunk of the old pipe out, you can start caving in the rest of it pretty easily. Don't forget to stuff a rag or something into the pipe down past your working area to keep from getting large chunks of debris into the existing waste piping! Certainly don't forget to pull the rag out when you're done either! Once you get the old pipe out, the old lead and oakum should come out pretty easily by driving the lead inward with the chisel. Clean the inside of the hub out real well if you intend on using a rubber gasket to make the new PVC transition.
I happened to be in the right place at the right time and got to see how oakum is made at the factory.
Great video Roger. This video gave me even more respect than i already had for the old school plumbers.
Great video. Done a fair amount of commercial renovations, and I always respected the work that the older plumbers did before me. Plumbers back then were really amazing skilled hands. I myself have never needed to do this on a actual job, but it is a skill that must be taught, to have in your back pocket if ever needed.
Another tip is to add a ball of plumbers putter under the triangle where your lead runner is clamped. Prevents lead from coming out. I’m 31 plumbing for about 13 years now. I pour lead joints whenever I can I enjoy the process. Also sometimes easier if the hub of cast is at floor level.
Another tip is to take a piece of oakum and pull it apart and put it under the triangle and it helped from leaking.
Man that’s badass I’ve been wanting to know how that was done from day one going on about 9 years of plumbing and man that’s cool
What is the advantage of lead and oakum compared to those plastic lead substitutes like Hercules Plastic Seal?
Plumbing = “plumbum” = Lead
Love this! Been waiting for a solid tutorial on how this is done. Thank you
Glad I could deliver this for you
They still teach this method in the military. Military plumbers working in other countries may encounter all sorts of plumbing technologies that are no longer popular here in the states.
Awesome! I found a few packing tools in a box that my Dad gave me... I had no clue what they were. Know I know.
Alot of Lead & Oakum is still used in cast iron of New York & other East Coast old cities. A skill definitely still needed.
I have an old Clayton and Lambert plumber's furnace. It was used to melt lead before propane was available, and it ran on this stuff called "white gas" which was basically just the unleaded gas of that time, very much like today's Coleman fuel. The thing is a monstrosity, it's EXTREMELY loud when It's running, and it shoots out massive fireballs while it's preheating. But it's a really beautiful tool, even if it's obsolete
Nothing will piss you off more than busting a hub when packing the lead.
Perfect video !!! Explained exactly how you should teach an upcoming plumber !! You don’t understand how many people your helping 👌👌
I appreciate that
I have seen the lead and yarning irons mixed in with cold chisels at sales. I and no one that I have spoken with knew what they were.
2nd year apprentice from Canada here, I work in an older city so I come across a lot of this in service and it’s unfortunate I haven’t been taught to make a lead and oakum joint. Usually we slap a fernco coupling and change to ABS pipe
Old Timers love to make things more difficult than it had to be
Torn a lot of cast iron on remodels, new plumber of 6 years, but never once seen or had it explained how it’s done. I guess because no one knows. I Love your channel very much and I use what you teach everyday. This video was definitely necessary!
That’s actually a good looking lead joint bro! Didn’t lose your touch
That crap on top of the molten lead is called "Dross".
I have poured many a joint in my days as a plumber in San Francisco. My father was also a plumber and he used to wipe lead joints. By chance do you have a video of doing that?
I do not have a video on that yet, good idea.
Roger, would love to see your technique for running pvc into a cast iron hub with a compression gasket.
Great suggestion!
For some reason, I have found plumbing to be interesting since I was a kid making contraptions of pipe in the 60s and early 70s. I am also the weird guy who like to learn to do things "the old way". I took this to an extreme and still shave with a straight razor. I've read about and understood the principle of the lead and oakum joint but this was the first time I have ever actually seen one.THANKS!!
Solid knowledge, solid joint.
Grandfather described these to me years ago.
Thank you for sharing .
Glad you enjoyed it
I always wondered how the horizontal joint were done. Learn something every day!
I’ve been in the trade for 6+ years. And have run into kitec pipe frequently here in Louisiana. Just curious do you see much of it. And if so how do you handle the issues it comes with?
The old runners had asbestos in them. I still have a few
PVC has spoiled us.
Great demo! I've wondered how this was done exactly.