I can't imagine that's code compliant, but then again, I'm not a plumber. Intuitively, I would have used low-strength epoxy, or silicone rubber from a caulking gun, rather than molten lead!
Nice job. I had some experience in the old days pouring a lead joint, but I was not aware you could do so when connecting cast iron hub with PVC. I learned something new today. Thank you.
Nice job!! I haven't poured a lead joint since the late 80's. When I run into this situation in old buildings, I use the "plastic" lead and being I don't have any lead working tools, different size screwdrivers do a good job at packing the oakum into the joint....LOL But if I can, I would cut out he H&S fitting and adapt to PVC with a NO-Hub band like you did with the PVC. Again, very nice work. One suggestion from an old plumber.....KNEE PADS! Trust me, they are worth their weight in gold!
My father’s uncles were plumbers after returning from WW I. We had a box of tools in the basement that I never knew what were used for. Now I know they were for packing oakum, lead ingots, etc. Thanks for an informative video and an insight to family history. Only comment - first….I’d have put on gloves. 👍👍
Still code in Chicago area. They sell a pvc soil pipe adapter specifically for this use. It’s at depot and Menards 2” and 4” Also we still have to pack the lead like you did oakum after it’s poured and cooled a bit.
Dude you saved my weekend I had a similar problem the guy at home store looked at me like I was from another planet when I was explaining my situation , it was an old pipe I know and obviously he never had come across this type of fitting so thank you sir for posting this great video 👍
Seem very personable so, I will not critize ya. I am the last Generation in my family of plumbers starting with my Great Grandad and am 67 this year. Copper tyed into cast iron was and isnt unusal. In fact, my mother learned from Great Grandad too cut sheet lead, roll it into pipe's and hot lead the seams before cast iron bell and spigot pipe was heard of. Called; "wiping lead". When I cut my teeth in plumbing, early 1970's, we were pouring lead &okam joints and caulking irons, "inside &outside iron's" we used too pack the lead ring after it cooled, water tight. We did horizontal with a pouring rope made of asbestos and a clamp in the ditch. Had lead pot's, burners a laddle and lead ingots. In the late 70's this was gradually replaced with neopren "Ty-seal gaskets and snake snot grease and a lead mallet made on location too set and knock those joints into the bell past the neopren inner seal. Then Ridgid came out with the chain puller rig, heavy and cumbersom too pull the pipe into the bell past the inner second seal of the gasket, you had two seals. The in the early 80's just before " Plastics" abs, pvc, there was thee no hub cast iron bands. History of plumbing goes way back before roman times and thee aquq ducts. Copper, lead,, orange burg, clay tile, cast iron, duck tile,, worked with those and,,,, now ya got junk plastic's that look like a landscaper with garden hose installed the system. Me,,, I think the trades have lost the most important ingredient, "PRIDE IN THERE CRAFT" over production.
I love it, I am recertifying my Termite License in California and Dry Rot and Subterranean Termites come from plumbing leaks, so I'm just studying more into how the repairs are done on the other side of the repair besides the structural repair, I'm studying the repair to eliminate the source of the moisture.
I've used Fernco hub adapters in the past (rubber donut) to connect the PVC pipe to the cast iron hub. I didn't think that you could pour hot lead around PVC, PVC gets soft and rubbery with a lot of heat. One of the plumbers that I used to work with in the past, used epoxy putty (Oatey sticks) to secure the PVC pipe to the cast iron hub.
That is my biggest gripe with those boots. They are a royal pain to get on and seated! Especially because not all cast iron was made to exact dimensions. I am still on the hunt for a fool proof method of getting them set relatively quick and easy.
That was my job starting out in the plumbing business in 1974 I drove the okam and heated the lead in a pot breathing it the whole time. I’m still plumbing at 66 and still love it
66 is young don’t chew your words man, so many people from your era are dead from construction ie, plumbing, painting and general contracting.. breathing in contaminants and dust over the years. Most don’t get to 75. Be thankful and always wear the proper mask
I started my own business in 1973 which is 50 years ago. I still do some plumbing each week. I still go to work to help with my body and mind… Being over 70 the body and mind slows down pretty fast…
Having done plumbing for nearly 50 yrs in the uk. Also doing cast iron drainage within tbat time. We use what is called "yarn" to caulk the joint 1st like you used oakem! Then the lead is poured into the joint. Once the lead is in you then caulk that down into the joint , what that does is expand the lead into the groove in the cast iron socket, which also tightens the pipe, in this case plastic into the socket. You would normally "set" the lead by using a metal chisel where the lead meets the plastic. But seeing as your joint is plastic you can't do that ! 🙈 The plastic pipe being really smooth the oakem/ yarn doesn't really have anything to grip to so to speak . As if it was a piece of cast iron in place per sè it would be different. By caulking the lead down it expands not only in the groove but in the joint itself, making for a better tighter joint. In the uk when we caulked joints before they're leaded they had to withhold an air test & I was taught that if the joint was yarned properly you didn't really need the lead. That was a mark of a good plumber. Once the joints qas finish3d we'd paint bitomastic paint around the joint to stop the socket edges going rusty & also to make it look nicer. Back in the late 80's we did a construction job where we were using suspended lead caulkedb12" cast iron pipe & joints . They would take 2 huge ladles of lead per joint. As your soil pipes are mostly 3" to the toilets due to the use of syphonic pans where the contents are sucked out you can use smaller discharge pipework. In the uk its standard 110mm or 4 " Alot of younger plumbers have no idea how to caulk a joint in thr uk all they want to do is rop it out & use a flexy consatina joint made of plastic. Nothing as thick or as heavy duty as your pipe & fittings. Mostly ABS or uPVC . We did have alot of asbestos soil pipes installed in the 50 & 60's as it was a cheaper commodity back then. Now as we know it's a huge health issue when removing or repairing pipework.
@GodwinAndSons thanks for making this video. Discovering how interesting the trades are at 62 yrs old I missed out on a lot of trade secrets. Thanks to TH-cam, I can now makeup for lost time.
Great video tutorial! This reminds me of the plumbing rework I had to do in our new to us home in 1997. Built in 1964, it had been plumbed with copper drain lines; dumping into cast iron bells in the basement. I soon discovered that, while all the vertical copper was intact, the three inch horizontal runs were corroded through on the top in a few places so I replaced all the copper sewer lines with PVC. While you give no information on the house, I would suspect it too may have been originally plumbed in like manner and then updated at some point for probably the same reason; given the copper you found in the cast bell.
We did plumbing work before the day of plastic pipe. All drain pipe was cast iron. We heated our lead in a melting pot. One great lessons I learned quick was to not stand close to the lead if a spring shower pops up.
Yes that takes me back. My grandfather and father were plumbers. We poured lead joints regularly. Dad had a propane burner rig that fitted atop a standard size propane tank. We had a small kettle that housed the led and a ladle that was used for pouring the lead. Dad used to go around to parts stores and filling stations and collect old car batteries. We would cut off the casing and melt down the lead cores for future use. Dad had an oakum belt that he clamped around the joint. We would hammer it into the top edge of the cast iron pipe so that the two ends pinched together on the high side of the joint. You would pour into the vee shaped crack until the joint was full. That was how horizontal joints were made.
Inside & outside packing chisels at the end. When pouring around plastic like that; as soon as it starts to solidify you pour water on the joint to keep it from melting the plastic more. I've pulled joints apart just to see how that helps and it does. Depending on the style and age of the CI, you can most often put a Ty-seal in with lube and drive the plastic in after chamfering the edge...... a lot less work! You should show a horizontal lead joint where you have to use a running rope. I don't think I've picked up my lead tools in over 35 years. I can't say I miss it.....lol.
My house built in the 1950s is this way but its under the crawl space with a dirt floor. Their's only about 2ft in some spots and less in others so doing any repairs is hard and limits what you can do. So I reseated my pvc into the cast iron, packed it with oakum and on top on that i used spray foam to make sure it was sealed. I know that's not how it should be done but with the limited room under the house I couldn't get a fernco seated and the pvc pipe in it. Its been a year now and it has held up with no leaks. Sometimes you gotta do what you can, only other option was to rip the bathroom floor up and redo the pipes since I'd have room to work but i didn’t want to go down that route. Glad to see in the comments I'm not the only one that's had to deal with this, most others I've explained what's going on with how the pipes are setup are clueless as to what I'm talking about.
Wow old school plumbing great to watch brings me back to the days long time ago when thats all we used lead and oakum . Great job very well done next lets see a horizontal joint poured next video
I read that maximum temp for pvc is 140 Fahrenheit. I also read that melting point for led is 640 farenheight. California plumber here who only cuts out cast iron and has never poured a lead and oakum joint
Great video, I replace the same thing and used a wire wheel on a high speed grinder to clean the inside of the cast and came out super clean. Ran the pipe down into the angle of the cast which made a tight fit and filled the gap with GE Silicon Caulking.....Zero leaks...
I'm old enough to remember this procedure and old enough to have lived in buildings & homes on the Jersey Shore that had cast iron drains....Seen that done before but Now i inderstand it..... Thank you!
In general I don't criticize other plumbers. And I don't really have a critic here but a suggestion. I've never poured hot lead in my 24 years of plumbing. I have, however, repaired a cast iron joint that was leaking. After getting the hub cleaned out my journeyman showed me how to pack the oakum in properly. Then instead of hot lead we used lead wool and packed it around solidly. I'm not saying this was the correct way to do it, but it's how we did it and it seemed to work. And the pipe was very solid in that hub. So maybe throw some lead wool in with your oakum and try it...but wear gloves!
Safety concern: as a 1970's teenager saw a friend with burn pocks all over his face. He was making bullets and his melting lead exploded. I just learned how as you said cold lead was moist and when melting steam was/is produced splattering molten lead on his bare face. 50 years later he still has scars. Lucky he didn't go blind. Great video.
Strange they didn't use a Manoff fitting in the Cast Iron hub. They do make a manoff adapter for PVC pipe. They take the heat better from the hot lead. I remember in class for license they taught us that for every inch of cast Iron you use a pound of lead. 3 inch cast iron hub requires 3 pounds of lead. Nice job
Very good point! Unfortunately it was well last closing time at the supply houses and this repair had to be done. I had not rubber bushing or manoffs, so this was the next best thing to do.
I took the state plumbing test for Illinois! Lead had to be 1" thick in depth regardless of the soil pipes diameter. "Happy plumbing" P.s. In my area (if being inspected) we have to use a soil adpt in the cast iron hub and then a no hub adapter on pvc side with HD 4 bolt no hub band. Ridiculous for such a small repair.
@@richardcooper6560 is that what they call a strong back coupling (4 bolts) That sounds like what we would call a strong back ... Flex connector with a metal shield and 4 hose clamps around it?
I'm a homeowner, didn't know you could lead PVC into a hub. I found they have a putty for a hub joints, but it looked like a joke to me. So I stuck with what I know, which is car repair. I used automotive urethane - windshield glue - with oakum packed in first. Urethane is very resilient, tough, and waterproof, but it keeps a little flex. At the time, I didn't know oakum did the bulk of the sealing, so I cleaned the inside of the hubs to bare metal for a perfect bond. It's been 10 years, the joints haven't leaked or come loose, even the horizontal ones are fine. I'll probably try a lead joint next time.
Would you believe me if I told you that that job really was done incorrectly! I’m a master plumber for 34+ years and he definitely did it the wrong way!
I’m a retired Aussie plumber and watched your video with interest. Okam, we know it as Hemp here in Australia. Anyway I was surprised to see you using molten lead to seal the joint between PVC and Cast Iron. Personally I would have used a two part cast iron epoxy jointing compound. It dries as hard as rock, is water tight and will even cure under water. Messy to mix unless you keep your hands wet or it sticks like s..t to blanket 😂 Also there is no heat or naked flame required which makes the process a lot safer. Keep up the good work and videos 👍
I hav a similar project. I'll probably use rubber seal in case. U asked for opinions and there's a lot of seemingly expert suggestions. I'm learning more.
Great job, this video brings back so many memories. In the past I always used a ground down tire iron. I was too cheap to buy the proper tool since I did so few oakum jobs. I used to use a propane take mounted kettle for lead melting but that was a pain.
I'm glad to see a tradesman your age with the skill set you have. Most young people are not going into the trade fields and it's nice to see someone of your age that is highly skilled and can actually do the job
I’m not a plumber, but in 1974 I had to make a similar joint except not vertically but horizontally. I replaced a 40’ 1 1/2” galvanized pipe to a cast iron hub with a 2” abs pipe. I don’t remember using oakum,but I used a compound out of a can that was like cement mortar, it leaked a little and I dripped 5 minute clear epoxy from the12 o’clock position and it sealed itself. After about 3 months it was clogged, I cleaned it with a garden hose and noticed the pitch was wrong. I repitched the pipe tying it down every 2 ‘ and it worked for the next 15 years till I sold the home. PS: I was kind of surprised that you were using lead and the rubber connector in this video, hasn’t the industry come up with anything new for this type of joint? I only use Fernco connectors on sump pump lines or vents.
They do make a rubber bushing for the hub connection, but this job was after hours and I was unable to get that bushing so the old fashioned way was the next best option. The 4-band clamp I used in my opinion is in no way related to a fernco coupling. It does use rubber to seal, but the support comes from the stainless steel jacket around it rather than the thickness of the rubber itself. It also has 4 clamps instead of two. When tightened down it creates a rock solid connection that no amount of hot water will warp. This style connector is what the industry uses to connect No-Hub Cast Iron. They can also be referred to as 4-Band No-Hub couplings or Husky Clamps. They also make them as 2-Band No-Hub Clamps. They make great repair couplings and provide ample flexibility for both installation and future service.
I didn't know you could pour lead around PVC like that. I thought it would burn right through it. When I did this once I used lead wool, which I packed around and tamped with the iron you use to push the oakum in. The other time I used this epoxy like material. It came in a caulking gun and I remember is was specifically for this.
I still have a set of the inner and outer caulking irons that are used after the lead is poured. I thought that the joint wasn't done until the lead was tamped with these tools. If you examine old poured joints you'll notice the strike marks in the lead against the hub and the pipe the tools leave.
You are absolutely correct. I did pack the lead and if you look close between the end and the pour you’ll notice the packing marks. I forgot to add that in the video.
That first iron you used was called a "yarning" iron used to pack okum in joint , for the lead joint a calking irons were used inside and outside . Back in the day in order to pass a plumbing test , your lead joints were put under water pressure . If they leaked you failed . You must not have calking irons .,they were used to pack the lead tight in to the joint .
My house 1914 has all the original cast drains in it. No leaks?😮😊 It's actually 2 systems one is original one was added in the 50s or 60s the original has lead the added is using some kind of Felt or maybe horse hair? With a Tar substance packed in. I have no idea what they did in the Michigan UP way back when? I'll eventually need to replace it all with PVC when the city finally upgrades the water and sewer. We still have the system installed by the miners that founded the town almost 50% is dormant because homes are gone but the system is still there. Fortunately I do have 1/2" copper water coming in through the basement wall for water I'm not sure if how it's tired into the main? It was done before I purchased the house. The system is actively being replaced now in small zones around town .
@@GodwinAndSonsfor the past 50 plus years I’ve always had 2 inch 3 inch. Cast iron in my work van. With a bag of oakum all my irons to do a job correctly. I’ve tried putting plastic in place of cast. I just don’t feel it seats as well as cast iron.
I know there is an Oaken impregnated with some kind of cement. You just add water and you push in the crevice around the PVC/ABS pipe. I prefer to use a Fernco Donut Adaptor.
I've never seen this kind of joint done before. They are all over my house, so it's great to see what would have to happen if I had a failure. Thanks, and well done!
Depending on the hub size i like install a 1/2 of a coupling or heat a pc of scrap n sleeve the outside of pipe on vertical pours for pc of mind when tapping lead. Or lead wool for hoz joint.
Being a plumber for 40 years thats quit the the job. I’m sure it will work fine :-). Very timely 😮. I’m glad someone was willing to pay you a plumbers wage to do this video. Very nice 👍.
I find the repair crazy. The way to connect the pvc to the bell of the cast iron is a JIFFY gasket. The way you made the connection is what we call a jack leg plumber.
My mother had those joints all over in her house. I assume zinc was used. I didn’t realize that oakum was used for the seal. Lasted for 70 years until the house was torn down. Interesting.
Not a plumber but watched because I’m getting ready to do the same thing. This is the first time seeing oakum, pvc and lead being used. Some suggest cast iron should have been used instead. Others I’ve watched used the pvc/fernco combination but mention they can be a pain at times. In this video I like that the oakum was packed but makes me wonder why manufactures haven’t come up with large rubber O rings that could be slipped on the pvc first and tapped down in the joint between each layer of oakum. Combination of old and new.
@@GodwinAndSons like the PVC it does fine, I just finished it and it worked as good as the PVC. Just make sure you wait a few minutes before caulking the joint.
Very cool to see this done. I do have a question though- would there ever be an application where you’d have to pour the lead on a horizontal joint and not a vertical one? How would that work? Thanks!
I did in classroom almost 40yrs ago u use whats called a running rope that u wrap around horizontal joints to keep lead in until it hardens enough then remove we had a blast furnace right in the classroom to melt it it was disbanded following year due to not enough ventillation deemed a health hazard
@@leslupton7299 wow that’s cool, yeah definitely understand it being a health hazard but still… that’s a skill that’s not really well known anymore. Very cool! Thanks for the info :)
Thank you for sharing this, I really am clear on these types of joints now. I am not a licensed plumber but have made many repairs. Lately as of yesterday, I removed Oakham and lead but could not remove center cleanout hub. I was afraid to hammer too hard and break bell. Any suggestions? I just went with a fernco connection instead.
Looks good except for the last step of packing the lead with those tamps you have. Back in the day we could tell which plumber tamped the lead by the pattern they left.
I've got a 75-year-old building with cast iron plumbing I've replaced much of it with ABS and it works great but I avoid at all costs in a crawl space harming the the lead joints. I've watched others use a rubber gasket that goes into the hub and the PVC just pushes into it and I'm sure it works fine and that's what I would do it takes 1 minute. If I had to do a joint as you were doing it I would put some Oakhum at the bottom and then load it with silicone which would definitely seal it off for a very long time. I suppose you're pouring of the lead against a PVC was successful due to the cast iron sucking the heat out of the lead before it melted through the PVC. It's interesting but I would be concerned that the excess of heat may have deteriorated the PVC to some extent or maybe even burned it. It would be interesting to see a section of that joint to see what happened to the PVC pipe.
Speaking from experience the rubber bushings they make take far longer than 1 minute to install, especially because not all cast iron is the same dimensions. As far as the PVC is concerned it does get a surface burn, but it doesn’t effect the overall integrity. I will do a future video showing the profile of the joint.
The char would be my concern. I’d have to think under pressure (with a clogged pipe) the char would allow water through. I’m just not sure you could do a 10’ head test
@@GodwinAndSons 1 minute to install after 15 minutes or more of cleanup. From watching others do The lead joints they pound the lead after it's poured to expand it and I guess that is to compress it into all the little spots it didn't flow into. If I had to do a lead joint to a PVC or ABS pipe I would use the gasket and clean and dry the cast iron and glue the gasket in if it was necessary using silicone. One product I used that was surprisingly good was Henry's clear roof sealant. I used it to seal around flashing and it worked great but I also used it for other things and it is amazingly sticky. Thanks again for replying you have a great channel and I give all videos a like and I know the comments also help you. You deserve to get more coverage. Etc.
Re: lead contamination, they apparently don't want lead leeching even into sewage water because then it would have to be removed at the sewage treatment plant. Very small traces of the lead could remain in the treated water. Plus, the lead might also do damage to the sewage treatment plant equipment over time.
lovely job top notch but if in the s---t cut a bit of 4" 110mm plastic after cleaning the collar insert the plastic you can use a bit of rope greased or make a bit using denso tape ore similar to make a plug you drive down in to the the collar socket wet the socket and to make joint use a fast set water proof cement. it will get you out f trouble 20 to 30 min set only use on horizontal ore socket facing up words joint method for old clay earth and where pipe. but can be used on cast if cast is fixed no movement.
Amazing job!
I never would’ve thought of pouring lead on to PVC.
But then again I’m not a plumber!
Schedule 40 or thicker PVC should take the abuse.
@@HealthSuperchargerI never knew this
I can't imagine that's code compliant, but then again, I'm not a plumber. Intuitively, I would have used low-strength epoxy, or silicone rubber from a caulking gun, rather than molten lead!
@@HealthSupercharger I'm surprised they don't use it for HVAC ducts. Seems like it would be more airtight, durable, and easier to work with than tin.
Have a good Day Darren . Much love
Finally , a craftsman who isn’t all wound up , yelling and screaming about all the problems their having ,
Class act for sure
Nice video
Nice job. I had some experience in the old days pouring a lead joint, but I was not aware you could do so when connecting cast iron hub with PVC. I learned something new today. Thank you.
Nice job!!
I haven't poured a lead joint since the late 80's. When I run into this situation in old buildings, I use the "plastic" lead and being I don't have any lead working tools, different size screwdrivers do a good job at packing the oakum into the joint....LOL
But if I can, I would cut out he H&S fitting and adapt to PVC with a NO-Hub band like you did with the PVC.
Again, very nice work.
One suggestion from an old plumber.....KNEE PADS! Trust me, they are worth their weight in gold!
My father’s uncles were plumbers after returning from WW I. We had a box of tools in the basement that I never knew what were used for. Now I know they were for packing oakum, lead ingots, etc. Thanks for an informative video and an insight to family history.
Only comment - first….I’d have put on gloves. 👍👍
Still code in Chicago area. They sell a pvc soil pipe adapter specifically for this use. It’s at depot and Menards 2” and 4”
Also we still have to pack the lead like you did oakum after it’s poured and cooled a bit.
I wouldn’t do a damn thing in this world because “that’s how they do it in Chicago”!
Dude you saved my weekend I had a similar problem the guy at home store looked at me like I was from another planet when I was explaining my situation , it was an old pipe I know and obviously he never had come across this type of fitting so thank you sir for posting this great video 👍
Seem very personable so, I will not critize ya. I am the last Generation in my family of plumbers starting with my Great Grandad and am 67 this year. Copper tyed into cast iron was and isnt unusal. In fact, my mother learned from Great Grandad too cut sheet lead, roll it into pipe's and hot lead the seams before cast iron bell and spigot pipe was heard of. Called; "wiping lead". When I cut my teeth in plumbing, early 1970's, we were pouring lead &okam joints and caulking irons, "inside &outside iron's" we used too pack the lead ring after it cooled, water tight. We did horizontal with a pouring rope made of asbestos and a clamp in the ditch. Had lead pot's, burners a laddle and lead ingots. In the late 70's this was gradually replaced with neopren "Ty-seal gaskets and snake snot grease and a lead mallet made on location too set and knock those joints into the bell past the neopren inner seal. Then Ridgid came out with the chain puller rig, heavy and cumbersom too pull the pipe into the bell past the inner second seal of the gasket, you had two seals. The in the early 80's just before " Plastics" abs, pvc, there was thee no hub cast iron bands. History of plumbing goes way back before roman times and thee aquq ducts. Copper, lead,, orange burg, clay tile, cast iron, duck tile,, worked with those and,,,, now ya got junk plastic's that look like a landscaper with garden hose installed the system. Me,,, I think the trades have lost the most important ingredient, "PRIDE IN THERE CRAFT" over production.
Much enjoyed the comment! Pride in the craft as you say is a big thing and too many just slap things together without much of a thought.
I love it, I am recertifying my Termite License in California and Dry Rot and Subterranean Termites come from plumbing leaks, so I'm just studying more into how the repairs are done on the other side of the repair besides the structural repair, I'm studying the repair to eliminate the source of the moisture.
I've used Fernco hub adapters in the past (rubber donut) to connect the PVC pipe to the cast iron hub. I didn't think that you could pour hot lead around PVC, PVC gets soft and rubbery with a lot of heat. One of the plumbers that I used to work with in the past, used epoxy putty (Oatey sticks) to secure the PVC pipe to the cast iron hub.
I thought u needed a man-off
the frenco boot i used on my abando rehab worked well at connecting to the existing cast iron.
they are a freaking quest to get on though. I needed to use two gasket removing tools to slip it over the pipe even with some grease.
@@CornThaddieusThy3rd I use some silicone grease, it helps a lot.
That is my biggest gripe with those boots. They are a royal pain to get on and seated! Especially because not all cast iron was made to exact dimensions. I am still on the hunt for a fool proof method of getting them set relatively quick and easy.
Very impressive, I doubt it if a single plumber in SoCal has lead and oakum in their service truck or van in 2024.
I’m a plumber on SoCal and I can assure you nobody has any of this
@@toptiermango2122 Exactly the only one someone would save a cast iron hub is stick a donut in it and run ABS or PVC.
As a plumber here in socal I’ve always wanted to try this
Can u still buy the tools
U are bad ass bro
That was my job starting out in the plumbing business in 1974 I drove the okam and heated the lead in a pot breathing it the whole time. I’m still plumbing at 66 and still love it
66 is young don’t chew your words man, so many people from your era are dead from construction ie, plumbing, painting and general contracting.. breathing in contaminants and dust over the years. Most don’t get to 75. Be thankful and always wear the proper mask
A must to work with gloves need to work with a runner need to tap the lead after pouring
I did the same thing in 1973.
I take it a day at a time work spend time with my family and go to church and get recharged
I started my own business in 1973 which is 50 years ago.
I still do some plumbing each week. I still go to work to help with my body and mind…
Being over 70 the body and mind slows down pretty fast…
Having done plumbing for nearly 50 yrs in the uk. Also doing cast iron drainage within tbat time. We use what is called "yarn" to caulk the joint 1st like you used oakem!
Then the lead is poured into the joint. Once the lead is in you then caulk that down into the joint , what that does is expand the lead into the groove in the cast iron socket, which also tightens the pipe, in this case plastic into the socket. You would normally "set" the lead by using a metal chisel where the lead meets the plastic. But seeing as your joint is plastic you can't do that ! 🙈
The plastic pipe being really smooth the oakem/ yarn doesn't really have anything to grip to so to speak . As if it was a piece of cast iron in place per sè it would be different. By caulking the lead down it expands not only in the groove but in the joint itself, making for a better tighter joint.
In the uk when we caulked joints before they're leaded they had to withhold an air test & I was taught that if the joint was yarned properly you didn't really need the lead. That was a mark of a good plumber. Once the joints qas finish3d we'd paint bitomastic paint around the joint to stop the socket edges going rusty & also to make it look nicer.
Back in the late 80's we did a construction job where we were using suspended lead caulkedb12" cast iron pipe & joints . They would take 2 huge ladles of lead per joint.
As your soil pipes are mostly 3" to the toilets due to the use of syphonic pans where the contents are sucked out you can use smaller discharge pipework. In the uk its standard 110mm or 4 "
Alot of younger plumbers have no idea how to caulk a joint in thr uk all they want to do is rop it out & use a flexy consatina joint made of plastic. Nothing as thick or as heavy duty as your pipe & fittings. Mostly ABS or uPVC . We did have alot of asbestos soil pipes installed in the 50 & 60's as it was a cheaper commodity back then. Now as we know it's a huge health issue when removing or repairing pipework.
Great comment! I enjoyed it, thanks for taking the time to post it!
@GodwinAndSons thanks for making this video. Discovering how interesting the trades are at 62 yrs old I missed out on a lot of trade secrets. Thanks to TH-cam, I can now makeup for lost time.
Great video tutorial! This reminds me of the plumbing rework I had to do in our new to us home in 1997. Built in 1964, it had been plumbed with copper drain lines; dumping into cast iron bells in the basement. I soon discovered that, while all the vertical copper was intact, the three inch horizontal runs were corroded through on the top in a few places so I replaced all the copper sewer lines with PVC. While you give no information on the house, I would suspect it too may have been originally plumbed in like manner and then updated at some point for probably the same reason; given the copper you found in the cast bell.
Reminds me of my apprenticeship days. I sure did learn alot doing cast iron work. Appreciate your detail to getting the job done right.
We did plumbing work before the day of plastic pipe. All drain pipe was cast iron. We heated our lead in a melting pot. One great lessons I learned quick was to not stand close to the lead if a spring shower pops up.
Yes that takes me back. My grandfather and father were plumbers. We poured lead joints regularly. Dad had a propane burner rig that fitted atop a standard size propane tank. We had a small kettle that housed the led and a ladle that was used for pouring the lead. Dad used to go around to parts stores and filling stations and collect old car batteries. We would cut off the casing and melt down the lead cores for future use. Dad had an oakum belt that he clamped around the joint. We would hammer it into the top edge of the cast iron pipe so that the two ends pinched together on the high side of the joint. You would pour into the vee shaped crack until the joint was full. That was how horizontal joints were made.
Appreciate you taking the time to create the video
Some of the best content is when video show how to connect dissimilar materials.
i worked for a natural gas utility company for 38 years in the old days we used lead to to seal the old mains is nice to see it done again
Nice job. I was half expecting the PVC pipe to melt from the heat, but it looks like everything worked perfectly.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Inside & outside packing chisels at the end. When pouring around plastic like that; as soon as it starts to solidify you pour water on the joint to keep it from melting the plastic more. I've pulled joints apart just to see how that helps and it does. Depending on the style and age of the CI, you can most often put a Ty-seal in with lube and drive the plastic in after chamfering the edge...... a lot less work! You should show a horizontal lead joint where you have to use a running rope. I don't think I've picked up my lead tools in over 35 years. I can't say I miss it.....lol.
My house built in the 1950s is this way but its under the crawl space with a dirt floor. Their's only about 2ft in some spots and less in others so doing any repairs is hard and limits what you can do. So I reseated my pvc into the cast iron, packed it with oakum and on top on that i used spray foam to make sure it was sealed. I know that's not how it should be done but with the limited room under the house I couldn't get a fernco seated and the pvc pipe in it. Its been a year now and it has held up with no leaks. Sometimes you gotta do what you can, only other option was to rip the bathroom floor up and redo the pipes since I'd have room to work but i didn’t want to go down that route.
Glad to see in the comments I'm not the only one that's had to deal with this, most others I've explained what's going on with how the pipes are setup are clueless as to what I'm talking about.
Outstanding work!
Wow old school plumbing great to watch brings me back to the days long time ago when thats all we used lead and oakum . Great job very well done next lets see a horizontal joint poured next video
I read that maximum temp for pvc is 140 Fahrenheit. I also read that melting point for led is 640 farenheight. California plumber here who only cuts out cast iron and has never poured a lead and oakum joint
Prolonged exposure to 140 + will deteriorate the pvc, but such a short time with the cast sucking the heat away leads to deminimous damage
Interesting to hear
Not a plumber but I've hit PVC electrical conduit with a non temp controlled heat gun to bend it and that's allowed I imagine this is the same.
CPVC has a max temp of 200 degrees F a little higher.
Good craftsmanship from the younger plumbing generation . Keep up the good work !
Great video, I replace the same thing and used a wire wheel on a high speed grinder to clean the inside of the cast and came out super clean. Ran the pipe down into the angle of the cast which made a tight fit and filled the gap with GE Silicon Caulking.....Zero leaks...
I'm old enough to remember this procedure and old enough to have lived in buildings & homes on the Jersey Shore that had cast iron drains....Seen that done before but Now i inderstand it.....
Thank you!
In general I don't criticize other plumbers. And I don't really have a critic here but a suggestion. I've never poured hot lead in my 24 years of plumbing. I have, however, repaired a cast iron joint that was leaking. After getting the hub cleaned out my journeyman showed me how to pack the oakum in properly. Then instead of hot lead we used lead wool and packed it around solidly. I'm not saying this was the correct way to do it, but it's how we did it and it seemed to work. And the pipe was very solid in that hub. So maybe throw some lead wool in with your oakum and try it...but wear gloves!
Did this repair at my parents' house I was 15 and used lead wool on top of okum. That was 52 years ago!
Safety concern: as a 1970's teenager saw a friend with burn pocks all over his face. He was making bullets and his melting lead exploded. I just learned how as you said cold lead was moist and when melting steam was/is produced splattering molten lead on his bare face. 50 years later he still has scars. Lucky he didn't go blind. Great video.
Strange they didn't use a Manoff fitting in the Cast Iron hub. They do make a manoff adapter for PVC pipe. They take the heat better from the hot lead. I remember in class for license they taught us that for every inch of cast Iron you use a pound of lead. 3 inch cast iron hub requires 3 pounds of lead. Nice job
Very good point! Unfortunately it was well last closing time at the supply houses and this repair had to be done. I had not rubber bushing or manoffs, so this was the next best thing to do.
I took the state plumbing test for Illinois! Lead had to be 1" thick in depth regardless of the soil pipes diameter. "Happy plumbing"
P.s. In my area (if being inspected) we have to use a soil adpt in the cast iron hub and then a no hub adapter on pvc side with HD 4 bolt no hub band. Ridiculous for such a small repair.
@@richardcooper6560 is that what they call a strong back coupling (4 bolts) That sounds like what we would call a strong back ... Flex connector with a metal shield and 4 hose clamps around it?
I'm a homeowner, didn't know you could lead PVC into a hub. I found they have a putty for a hub joints, but it looked like a joke to me. So I stuck with what I know, which is car repair. I used automotive urethane - windshield glue - with oakum packed in first. Urethane is very resilient, tough, and waterproof, but it keeps a little flex. At the time, I didn't know oakum did the bulk of the sealing, so I cleaned the inside of the hubs to bare metal for a perfect bond. It's been 10 years, the joints haven't leaked or come loose, even the horizontal ones are fine. I'll probably try a lead joint next time.
Very interesting, first time I've seen this done from start to finish. You explained it well. Nice job !!!!! Thank you. 😃👍
Would you believe me if I told you that that job really was done incorrectly! I’m a master plumber for 34+ years and he definitely did it the wrong way!
@@Doing_it_right_the_first_time Ok fine, kindly explain how to do it right.
I’m a retired Aussie plumber and watched your video with interest.
Okam, we know it as Hemp here in Australia. Anyway I was surprised to see you using molten lead to seal the joint between PVC and Cast Iron.
Personally I would have used a two part cast iron epoxy jointing compound.
It dries as hard as rock, is water tight and will even cure under water.
Messy to mix unless you keep your hands wet or it sticks like s..t to blanket 😂
Also there is no heat or naked flame required which makes the process a lot safer.
Keep up the good work and videos 👍
Feraphry
Yes that’s the stuff, it’s been around forever 👍
No hub adapter job is wrong would never pass code
I hav a similar project. I'll probably use rubber seal in case. U asked for opinions and there's a lot of seemingly expert suggestions. I'm learning more.
Great job, this video brings back so many memories. In the past I always used a ground down tire iron. I was too cheap to buy the proper tool since I did so few oakum jobs. I used to use a propane take mounted kettle for lead melting but that was a pain.
old school, in the 80's. that's when I learned plumbing 👉😎👍. good job
I'm glad to see a tradesman your age with the skill set you have. Most young people are not going into the trade fields and it's nice to see someone of your age that is highly skilled and can actually do the job
looks good to me, but I usually pack around the lead once it's cooled at least thats the way I was taught.
4 inch furnco compression coupling look it up. never seen that way done looked good ty for taking time to expand our perspectives on plumbing
That was fascinating thank you Great video.
That was very informative repair combination and eye opening
I’m not a plumber, but in 1974 I had to make a similar joint except not vertically but horizontally. I replaced a 40’ 1 1/2” galvanized pipe to a cast iron hub with a 2” abs pipe. I don’t remember using oakum,but I used a compound out of a can that was like cement mortar, it leaked a little and I dripped 5 minute clear epoxy from the12 o’clock position and it sealed itself. After about 3 months it was clogged, I cleaned it with a garden hose and noticed the pitch was wrong. I repitched the pipe tying it down every 2 ‘ and it worked for the next 15 years till I sold the home.
PS: I was kind of surprised that you were using lead and the rubber connector in this video, hasn’t the industry come up with anything new for this type of joint? I only use Fernco connectors on sump pump lines or vents.
They do make a rubber bushing for the hub connection, but this job was after hours and I was unable to get that bushing so the old fashioned way was the next best option. The 4-band clamp I used in my opinion is in no way related to a fernco coupling. It does use rubber to seal, but the support comes from the stainless steel jacket around it rather than the thickness of the rubber itself. It also has 4 clamps instead of two. When tightened down it creates a rock solid connection that no amount of hot water will warp. This style connector is what the industry uses to connect No-Hub Cast Iron. They can also be referred to as 4-Band No-Hub couplings or Husky Clamps. They also make them as 2-Band No-Hub Clamps. They make great repair couplings and provide ample flexibility for both installation and future service.
@@GodwinAndSons Thank-you for your detailed answer…..
Hey I had someone steal my packing tools which an old timer plumber gave to me years back. He was expert Plumber and taught me plenty.
Amazing work! Perfect.
Very nice work and very professional. Great video
I always wondered how it was done.thanks for the info
Great clean work!
“First things first”. PUT ON A PAIR OF GLOVES!
Working with gloves on is like having sex with your socks on……it just doesn’t feel right 😂
@@timcrosby6820 you put your socks on the wrong appendage!🤣
Great work my friend
I use Tyseals. That way, it looks like more fun. Looks good to me. Nice job.
I didn't know you could pour lead around PVC like that. I thought it would burn right through it. When I did this once I used lead wool, which I packed around and tamped with the iron you use to push the oakum in. The other time I used this epoxy like material. It came in a caulking gun and I remember is was specifically for this.
I still have a set of the inner and outer caulking irons that are used after the lead is poured. I thought that the joint wasn't done until the lead was tamped with these tools. If you examine old poured joints you'll notice the strike marks in the lead against the hub and the pipe the tools leave.
You are absolutely correct. I did pack the lead and if you look close between the end and the pour you’ll notice the packing marks. I forgot to add that in the video.
Doing alot of service work in an old historic town, we ran in to these occasionally.
That first iron you used was called a "yarning" iron used to pack okum in joint , for the lead joint a calking irons were used inside and outside . Back in the day in order to pass a plumbing test , your lead joints were put under water pressure . If they leaked you failed . You must not have calking irons .,they were used to pack the lead tight in to the joint .
My house 1914 has all the original cast drains in it. No leaks?😮😊 It's actually 2 systems one is original one was added in the 50s or 60s the original has lead the added is using some kind of Felt or maybe horse hair? With a Tar substance packed in. I have no idea what they did in the Michigan UP way back when? I'll eventually need to replace it all with PVC when the city finally upgrades the water and sewer. We still have the system installed by the miners that founded the town almost 50% is dormant because homes are gone but the system is still there. Fortunately I do have 1/2" copper water coming in through the basement wall for water I'm not sure if how it's tired into the main? It was done before I purchased the house. The system is actively being replaced now in small zones around town .
Love the Daddy Longlegs on the wall.A plumber works with nature😂
Interesting repair. Looks like it should last a long time. Could you also take a piece of hub less cast iron and do the same thing?
I don’t see why not, but to carry that around for the very few times this circumstance arises is not cost effective.
@@GodwinAndSonsfor the past 50 plus years I’ve always had 2 inch 3 inch. Cast iron in my work van. With a bag of oakum all my irons to do a job correctly. I’ve tried putting plastic in place of cast. I just don’t feel it seats as well as cast iron.
Greetings from 🇩🇿 Algiers,
Good job,keep it up.
Well done
Good work professionally
Very interesting and I learned a lot from this video thanks for this
Great idea. No leaks all good.
This was required at the plumbing school back in early 2010. Never used oakum out in the field tho.
I know there is an Oaken impregnated with some kind of cement. You just add water and you push in the crevice around the PVC/ABS pipe. I prefer to use a Fernco Donut Adaptor.
Beautiful work!
Cool video, didn’t know you can do a lead and oakum joint with PVC.
I've never seen this kind of joint done before. They are all over my house, so it's great to see what would have to happen if I had a failure. Thanks, and well done!
Can this type of joint be done on horizontal installations? Seems to me I’ve got a pipe or two under my house connected this way.
You can do this horizontally you just need a rope to hold the lead in as you poor look it up on TH-cam to get a better idea
So it did the same job last week I used to that up Manheim in no room up in the ceiling a quarter joint so I use it inside Franco for my 4 by 3
@Dicofole It's Called Lead Wool!!!!
That was a clean job ! Exelent
Looks great. 👍🏽. Maybe PlasticSeal for PVC on Cast
Depending on the hub size i like install a 1/2 of a coupling or heat a pc of scrap n sleeve the outside of pipe on vertical pours for pc of mind when tapping lead. Or lead wool for hoz joint.
For the horizontal joints I use a joint runner rope and then pour the lead into that.
Trolls suck! I’m no plumber. That joint is looking good. Nice job and well thought out.
Being a plumber for 40 years thats quit the the job. I’m sure it will work fine :-). Very timely 😮. I’m glad someone was willing to pay you a plumbers wage to do this video. Very nice 👍.
You did a magnificent job
Wow, it's the 21st century and we still be pourin lead like it's the Roman times.
I find the repair crazy. The way to connect the pvc to the bell of the cast iron is a JIFFY gasket. The way you made the connection is what we call a jack leg plumber.
You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
I'm more impressed to see that he's not using gloves as protectors.
My mother had those joints all over in her house. I assume zinc was used. I didn’t realize that oakum was used for the seal. Lasted for 70 years until the house was torn down. Interesting.
Freakin awesome!!!!!! Me not knowing too much about the trade, I probably would have used a fernco donut.
Not a plumber but watched because I’m getting ready to do the same thing. This is the first time seeing oakum, pvc and lead being used. Some suggest cast iron should have been used instead. Others I’ve watched used the pvc/fernco combination but mention they can be a pain at times.
In this video I like that the oakum was packed but makes me wonder why manufactures haven’t come up with large rubber O rings that could be slipped on the pvc first and tapped down in the joint between each layer of oakum. Combination of old and new.
I am going to use an ABS manoff sleeve in a cast iron hub with lead and oakum, way stronger than lead alternatives.
Now ABS I am skeptical of.. that is very soft plastic and easy to catch fire. I’ve seen it belly just from hot water out of a dishwasher.
@@GodwinAndSons like the PVC it does fine, I just finished it and it worked as good as the PVC. Just make sure you wait a few minutes before caulking the joint.
@@jacksplumbingvideos7147 Did you make a video of it?
@@briancrandall1601 no, I finished it and painted it and I am now installing a vinyl floor around it.
There are hub adapters for this purposes, used with no hub fitting you could use a slip coupling up top and been done in half hour.
Great job mister thank you 😊
You didn't pack the lead. You're supposed to pack it down with a lead packing iron. It will tighten the lead up in the cast iron hub.
Can plumbers putty be used instead of lead? Also how does the molten lead not burn thru the PVC pipe?
Very cool to see this done. I do have a question though- would there ever be an application where you’d have to pour the lead on a horizontal joint and not a vertical one? How would that work? Thanks!
F
I did in classroom almost 40yrs ago u use whats called a running rope that u wrap around horizontal joints to keep lead in until it hardens enough then remove we had a blast furnace right in the classroom to melt it it was disbanded following year due to not enough ventillation deemed a health hazard
@@leslupton7299 wow that’s cool, yeah definitely understand it being a health hazard but still… that’s a skill that’s not really well known anymore. Very cool! Thanks for the info :)
Yes indeed! I plan to make a video showing the process for pouring horizontal joints soon!
Thank you for sharing this, I really am clear on these types of joints now. I am not a licensed plumber but have made many repairs. Lately as of yesterday, I removed Oakham and lead but could not remove center cleanout hub. I was afraid to hammer too hard and break bell. Any suggestions? I just went with a fernco connection instead.
you can also cut a 6 in cast-iron stub and pour the joint and band to the cast-iron
Looks good except for the last step of packing the lead with those tamps you have. Back in the day we could tell which plumber tamped the lead by the pattern they left.
I've got a 75-year-old building with cast iron plumbing I've replaced much of it with ABS and it works great but I avoid at all costs in a crawl space harming the the lead joints. I've watched others use a rubber gasket that goes into the hub and the PVC just pushes into it and I'm sure it works fine and that's what I would do it takes 1 minute. If I had to do a joint as you were doing it I would put some Oakhum at the bottom and then load it with silicone which would definitely seal it off for a very long time. I suppose you're pouring of the lead against a PVC was successful due to the cast iron sucking the heat out of the lead before it melted through the PVC. It's interesting but I would be concerned that the excess of heat may have deteriorated the PVC to some extent or maybe even burned it. It would be interesting to see a section of that joint to see what happened to the PVC pipe.
Speaking from experience the rubber bushings they make take far longer than 1 minute to install, especially because not all cast iron is the same dimensions.
As far as the PVC is concerned it does get a surface burn, but it doesn’t effect the overall integrity. I will do a future video showing the profile of the joint.
The char would be my concern. I’d have to think under pressure (with a clogged pipe) the char would allow water through. I’m just not sure you could do a 10’ head test
@@GodwinAndSons thanks for your reply and giving me the benefit of your experience.
@@GodwinAndSons 1 minute to install after 15 minutes or more of cleanup. From watching others do The lead joints they pound the lead after it's poured to expand it and I guess that is to compress it into all the little spots it didn't flow into. If I had to do a lead joint to a PVC or ABS pipe I would use the gasket and clean and dry the cast iron and glue the gasket in if it was necessary using silicone. One product I used that was surprisingly good was Henry's clear roof sealant. I used it to seal around flashing and it worked great but I also used it for other things and it is amazingly sticky. Thanks again for replying you have a great channel and I give all videos a like and I know the comments also help you. You deserve to get more coverage. Etc.
I have been taught to tamp the lead as well
That's right! I did pack it, but forgot to put it in the video!
I've done that , but I used pc4 after the okem .
Awesome video! I'm a diy and my only question whats the cloth being packed around the pvc called? Thanks in advance
I would like to see the pvc pipe after the pour. The end down in the cast iron. That would be interesting. How did you know you could do this???
It has been done for years sir
I will make a video showcasing this in the future!
PVC has a much higher melting point than lead.
This is why it can be done, and why it complies with plumbing code.
Interesting, and I didn't know that PVC could withstand hot lead.
Re: lead contamination, they apparently don't want lead leeching even into sewage water because then it would have to be removed at the sewage treatment plant. Very small traces of the lead could remain in the treated water. Plus, the lead might also do damage to the sewage treatment plant equipment over time.
Good luck with that. Even "lead free" domestic valves contain some lead.
Nice job, buddy.I wish you live in new jersey to saint county area
Have you tried using "Service Weight Cast Iron Hub to PVC compression coupling"?
Hey just subscribed
Looking forward to your adventures.
lovely job top notch but if in the s---t cut a bit of 4" 110mm plastic after cleaning the collar insert the plastic you can use a bit of rope greased or make a bit using denso tape ore similar to make a plug you drive down in to the the collar socket wet the socket and to make joint use a fast set water proof cement. it will get you out f trouble 20 to 30 min set only use on horizontal ore socket facing up words joint method for old clay earth and where pipe. but can be used on cast if cast is fixed no movement.