Nintendo Games with "Free Updates"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ธ.ค. 2023
- Yada yada yada, Mario Strikers: Battle League, yada yada yada.
Edited by Sam Essig and Scott Wozniak
Main Channel: @ScottTheWoz
Twitter: / scottthewoz
Facebook: / scottthewoz
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It's tragic how Mario sports games were completely killed by the "ship it incomplete and fix it later" approach. I used to want a Super Sluggers 2, but not anymore
Mario Tennis Aces came out relatively unscathed, but yeah. Nintendo NEEDS to get their act together.
same, it killed any excitement for a potential sluggers sequel for me. i thought you couldnt get more basic than super rush but they found a way. cant wait for sluggers 2 to have 10 characters max while we fill our 9 player team with toads and yoshis, probably with some custom outfits to make up for how barebones everything else is
Tennis Aces became actually pretty good after the updates. Can’t say the same for the rest
Unfortunately if we get a new Mario Baseball game then it's just going to suffer the same fate as the other Mario sports games on Switch
Sluggers is Bandai Namco, they are usually a lot more polished. However, much of their talents is probably being put into assisting the next Mario Kart or Smash. So the quality of a new Sluggers probably depends on whatever B team they get together.
I can’t wait for Scott to update this video so we can finally get the finished product!
We get the first few minutes, then we gotta wait 2 hours
Then 2 years later we get the Scott the woz full episode DLC
If only he did so he’d update his knowledge about game development lol
He already teased the 2.0 version of this video that talks about Switch Sports, Mario Maker 2, and Splatoon 3. If he gets enough sales on this video, he will definitely update it!
I'm still waiting on the paid DLC for borderline forever
Scott the Woz: "Hey all, Scott here!"
Scott the Stash: **YOU DID THIS**
Put them together and it becomes a Scott the Woz episode
lmao “scott the stash”
@@hhjpeggscott's woz
he's not wrong though
You know its a good video when it starts with scott screaming
That’s a Scott clip right there
"YOOOUU DID THIIIISS!”
The main problem with Animal Crossing is that we spend like... half an year, or even an entire year, without any major update that added interesting content, for them to add a bunch of stuff from nowhere in that final update. They could have divided all that final update stuff in minor updates though the year. So when we got that update, most people were not that interested in Animal Crossing anymore.
Absolutely agree
You can tell that was the initial plan. Much like Super Mario Maker 2’s big second update that came out of nowhere. Ironic how they do this strategy to ensure longevity, but release everything all at once in fear that people lost interest. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, Nintendo lmfao
Also it’s not like Animal Crossing or Kirby Star Allies needed these updates. These games were designed to be replayed. It completely kill’s Animal Crossing’s original purpose and made no sense for a Kirby game. They got carried away
Hopefully they get a bit of cop on regarding these franchises with the next console
I never minded this with Splatoon, since the core gameplay was so incredibly solid. Hell, Team Fortress 2 is one of my favorite games ever, and that game launched with 5 stages. That was in 07, sure, but still.
Animal Crossing New Horizons shouldve started with things like the Roost, the missing events and characters, etc.
Well to be fair TF2 was part of the Orange Box, so even if you got bored you still had plenty to do. Splatoon 1 was $60, so it really depended on your enjoyment of the gameplay to not feel like a scam.
Between how new and fun Splatoon 1 was and how they clearly had to rush Splatoon 2 for the switch's first year, I found the model acceptable and appreciated where the games ended up.
3 is kinda pushing it though lol.
The netcode must've been REAL fun eh?
@@squiddler7731I personally think splatoon 3 did it the best out of all of them. You immediately had a bunch of content at launch as well as the best base-game story mode, so players had plenty of stuff to keep them busy until new updates released. And when an update does release, it's usually exciting enough for people to want to go check it out again. The catalogs are fun and do-able to me, but then again I don't have a job so maybe it's too much for other players.
@@birdflox1337 It did do the best for sure, but as the third game in the series and the first one that wasn't heavily rushed, I expected even better. A lot of the season updates previously have been really underwhelming and only now have things finally started to pick up.
Splatoon 1 and 2 were lacking content because the devs clearly just didn't have time to make the content by launch. Splatoon 3 meanwhile feels like it's lacking because the devs are afraid that players might have _too much_ fun.
(Still better than literally every other game in this video though lol)
I won't argue that the free updates model will stand as a blemish on the Switch's stellar history, the part of its library that truly feels phoned in. It only ever worked as it was likely intended to with the Splatoon series, and then awkwardly grafted on to a bunch of fan-favorite sports games to their detriment, with Mario Golf and Mario Strikers being the most sour. We can only hope that their reception will cause Nintendo to see that this strategy isn't working well with these games at all, or at least that they can do so much better.
I would argue switch sports was the worst but each to there own
counterpoint: they make money and do not care
To this day Nintendo has never added DLC to Mario Party Superstars that should be a crime
Think that's bad? Kirby Fighters 2 never got DLC!
I am willing to bet "Mario Party Superstars 2" is finished and will be a launch title with the switch 2. They are heavily incentivized to not update og superstars as sad as that makes me
@@hurgcat Or ND Cube is just stuck in the past. Mario Party 10 never got updated...
I want more boards and minigames :(
@@hurgcat Superstars is one of my fav Mario Party games but I can see this happening sadly and I will buy it only it it has a lot of content
And this is why I'm thankful for games like Kirby and the Forgotten Land. That game was actually a full game. No Day 1 updates, no big installs, the entire game is in the cartridge. And it's not like that game was small or anything, but they still managed to have all of the game in that one cartridge.
That game is actually still on its 1.0.0 version! Zelda TOTK, Mario Wonder and Pikmin 4 are also very recent and complete games, so at least Nintendo still knows how to make single player titles. Now if only they stopped releasing such barebones multiplayer games...
@leonro yes, they seem to know how to complete single player focused games, but not multiplayer focused games these days lol
@@DannyBenS94 Well, the idea is that cutting the content, and adding it back as updates, keeps you playing longer.
Which incentivizes you to either renew your Online Subscription or get the more expensive year plan.
That game is a top 5 switch game.
And after the nothing burger that was Star Allies at launch (not that the extra free content made it any better) this was the best apology possible
As a Mario Strikers fan, I still cannot believe we had to wait 15 years for a game which was objectively inferior to its predecessor in every way, even ignoring the "free updates" model...
Seriously. The original Super Mario Strikers on Gamecube has more content than Battle League even after all of its updates. That is inexcusable.
I remember playing mario strikers on the wii at my friends house and i LOVED it. When i heard the new one sucked i didnt even buy it
Splatoon 1 was a little rushed to get the game out before the system had totally died, and Splatoon 2 was very rushed to get the game onto the new system as soon as possible. Splatoon 3 is the first game in the series to not be rushed, which I think is why it launched with a solid amount of content.
Yea Splatoon 2 was like a port of 1 with added content, which is a good thing. More people get into Splatoon meanwhile they release more updates and by endgame Splatoon 2 is its own identity.
Splatoon 3 released already its own thing and completely refreshed the whole formula. (Although, many missed opportunities still in game.)
And most importantly with the 3 month seasonal updates, employees won’t get crunched
Spatoon 1 the content was already finished. Nintendo just held back releasing it.
Always bothered me how quickly they cut off these games and made such a big deal about "the final update is here!!!". Felt like they were killing the hype way too quick or there were still way more ideas to explore (like Extra Game Modes in SMM2 for example).
I would just say something like "already?” I feel like the final update always came out too quick
i always remember seeing that empty spot in the smm2 themes and thinking they would add a new theme some day and then it just never happened
As someone who bought Mario Maker 2 in 2020, I'm honestly glad to know that I'm not the only one who thinks Mario Maker 2's updates got cut too soon. Especially when they could have added a new game style to the Extra Game Styles section of the creator... but nope! Pump out a half baked World Maker and stuff a load of other course elements in it and call it the final major update because the developers give not ****s.
@@meep7895Same here...
@@TommyDeonauthsArchivesif they continued you wouldn't get Mario wonder in 2023
In the case of splatoon, i don't mind this approach. At the end of a splatoon games lifespan, it has more content than we would have gotten if they released "a finished game".
Indeed and its fun to get new levels same time as other players😊
People forget that the state it released in was almost literally everything they had made. The demo at E3 was literally the entire game that they had up to that point, so really those frequent updates were coming out as they made the content. Of course others tried to mimic it’s success to a much worse extent, but like don’t blame splatoon for all its problems
@@budderguy2128Completely false. The 1.0 release had some multiplayer maps actually available in some single player missions (maybe with slight modifications), but they took a while to actually get delivered in the multiplayer rotation. The first new weapons and gear were also already done and on the disc, but the game had to be updated to unlock them.
It was only when 2.0 released that we were getting new maps that weren't in the single player, and actually new weapons and gear, plus more modes. But each N.0 update added a bunch of things that would only be made available gradually.
As for the completeness of the E3 reveal demo, that is entirely irrelevant. We're talking about the original release here, not any re-release build.
Splatoon 3 especially is this method of release's most optimal form. It launched with every game mode that had come before besides X Rank and Challenge mode, a good amount of stages, and a single player that took cues from Octo Expansion. The only things that felt a little lacking were weapon choice and amount of Salmon Run stages, which were rectified with updates. Now there's so many maps and customization that it's hard to keep track of.
Yeah, splatoon did it well. It felt like a complete game and gave new content to keep the game worth playing for longer
I didn't notice Scott was wearing Invisalign until he mentioned it.
I can give Arms a slight pass because it was the Mario Kart team trying something new that they had never done before (and also because Nintendo wanted a new game between Breath of the Wild and Splatoon 2). It didn’t have a ton of staying power, but there isn’t anything else quite like it on the market, so at least it has the uniqueness factor going for it. The Mario sports games have no excuse other than “HD development takes a long-ass time”, they were all developed by the same people who made the previous games, they know how these games work, this was just a way to keep costs down.
I am sure the the MK team has had an arena stile fist fight before.
@@Velocity_6410 I think there's a big difference between boxing and MK battle mode
I don't give it a pass. If they want me to buy an incomplete product, then I shouldn't have to pay the complete price. If ~30% of a game isn't done, give me a 30% discount. As long as the customer was expected to pay full price, there's no excuse whatsoever for delivering anything less than the full game, all on cartridge/disc.
Nintendo apologist lol
Nintendo needs to learn the difference between adding bonus content to a complete game and adding core features to an incomplete game
Protip: They say to keep the Invisalign in for like 22 hours a day, but I did it for only like 18 hours a day for the entire year and a half and it still worked as intended. Basically, you're good to take it out for recording sessions if you don't want a salivated lisp
17:34 Glad you brought this up. If anything I thought the farming in a way made the game slightly _worse_ because the crafting recipes and food recipes occupy the same role in how they're found. This meant that, on top of the usual frustration of getting a duplicate crafting recipe, you'll oftentimes instead get a food recipe, which are fundamentally useless for people just trying to make stuff. It legitimately made it more difficult to acquire new crafting recipes without outside assistance.
Of the three big game consoles, Nintendo ironically does this the LEAST.
Yeah, why does everyone complain about Splatoon doing what every other online multiplayer series does?
@markerikson742yuh3
@@markerikson7423 because why do it AT ALL if you're gonna be this lame about it you know. Coming from them its out of character to release unfinished games and then they try to do it and its just boring and lame and very obviously forced.
Still... it's rather bad when a company like Nintendo does it...
@@markerikson7423It’s not Splatoon that’s the problem. It’s every other game they’ve tried this with in the last almost seven years.
By this point I feel more acquainted with Scott's carpet than my own.
In the case of Splatoon, new weapons and stages change the gameplay DRASTICALLY, especially on 2 hour rotations for stages. It makes every stage have a unique layout and gimmick that makes the hazards you encounter keep changing. Sniping, brushing, or blasting for example are all insanely different even on a weapon to weapon basis. Arms could have had more fighting game design along with more unique arms, possibly, but even then the stages would still be similar enough not to make a difference.
*YOU DID THIS!*
Scott in his Invisalign era
Lmaoo
Read your comment AS he mentioned his invisalign
Splatoon is the only "Free Updates" game/series that works with the free updates imo. Maybe that's because it's an fps or because it started with this as a new IP, but then I have to consider 3 launched with a hell of a lot more than 1&2. But if a game isn't significantly upgraded compared to the prior game or different in a meaningful way, death will follow after half a year.
thing is, Splatoon & Smash still felt complete and that's why they could get away with the Post-Launch updates; the Mario Sports were straight up didn't care
Also Splatoon has built up a reputation of solid updates. Most of the Mario sports games don't even really get significant characters, it's like 6 guys over half a year maybe and half a mode if you're lucky. Splatoon updates also have their issues but at least there's the expectation that it'll be over a strong period of time.
Part of it is also the fandom. Splatoon does create this lived-in world which means if you're in the community you can really dig deep into all the new stuff together.
Splatoon never felt complete, only fanboys make was excuse
@@jesusbarrera6916 I’m going to have to agree about that because Splatoon 1 was basically actually incomplete.
@@jesusbarrera6916This right here. I'm a huge Splatoon fan but I won't deny that S1 and S2 were both totally unfinished at launch. Severely lacking in content due to being rushed out the door. S3 is the first game in the series to release in what felt like a complete experience, and even then it took another year before the game was in a state that I could confidently recommend it to someone who isn't already a Splatoon fan.
I think they should do this for splatoon and ONLY splatoon. It works for that series because the game feels genuinely alive, every new weapon has a basic rundown by sheldon, every map is announced in game like its a local event, theres only one splatoon, but theres 20 different tennis games. It didnt work for the sports games because it didnt have any of the charm that splatoon had, and it doesnt work for other established singleplayer series like Animal Crossing because.. well.. just play new leaf.
No. It was terrible with splatoon. By the time a cool weapon was released you were already sick of the game.
@@Guy-cb1ohYeah, I don't blame you for that. Personally I don't mind it, but Splatoon 3 is showing cracks in the formula that I think should be addressed.
@@Guy-cb1oh L take first of all. Second, the updates brings the game more things it offers
I think a lot of the reason why we keep seeing these free updates to Nintendo games is because it puts the game back into the spotlight, the game gets more overall coverage the more free updates come out versus just having everything at launch and people forget about the game quickly. Add to that the average game dev time increasing with each new year and you can see why it is an important incentive for Nintendo to
Even with 3 or 2 updates, I've quickly forgotten about Mario Maker 2 and Strikers Battle Leauge.
This, but I also see this as a way to keep player numbers up and thriving. No matter how good an online multiplayer is, if there's so players there's no game. I'm not really into many online multiplayers, but as somebody who plays a lot of Splatoon 3 I've definitely noticed spikes of activity whenever something big is going down (e.g. the recent big run)
Mario Strikers: Battle League was my biggest disapointment on the Switch. And Scott said it right: The gameplay is fun, it is well made, but there are very few game modes and it needed way more characters to feel more substantial. Plus I didn't care for the gear system, I felt it kinda pointless
Battle League was one of the of the biggest disappointments I’ve ever had for any game. After 15 years of no Mario Strikers, it was done so dirty
@@bhk7898 I knew it was going to be terrible when Daisy--a fan-favorite character wasn't even available at launch. The removal of Kritters for Boom Boom was also sad.
@@jmaster4941 It's even more insulting from a gameplay perspective when you realize Boom Boom is far more inept and incompetent at being a goalie than the Kritters ever were.
Glad Scott finally talked about Heroes in Another Dimension, it's a bit funny that he's talked about Star Allies so many times and yet he's only now talked about what many people consider the highlight of the game, but I'm glad he got to it.
I love that mode, it feels like an amazing epilogue because it basically features the game's true ending and the level design's really good
dont yell at the splatoon
The age of consoles with internet access is great in a lot of ways, but it also leads to developers being lazy because they can always just finish games later 😔
It's not laziness, it's capitalism
@@Color_Splshcapitalism is why any video games exist in the first place 😂 just read a game review before you buy.
@@SleepyRainTrainI assure you it fucking isn't. Just as how capitalism did not give you your phone and Jeff bezos did not personally deliver your amazon package
@@SleepyRainTrain hey smart guy, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that developers aren't lazy, they're just paid to do their job. Decisions come down to the business bosses in charge of the developers. Capitalism's whole thing is maximizing profit, it relies on infinite growth on a finite planet. And maximizing profit means minimizing cost. If the bigwigs deem that not finishing a game will save them money, they're obligated to do that. It's not devs being lazy, it's shareholders following the rules of capitalism.
@@Color_Splsh Mario strikers was a massive failure and cost Nintendo both profit and reputation. You can be sneaky in the short term but consumers eventually catch up. Unlike Marxism people have choices, Nintendo isn’t some autocratic monopoly
As a competitive Splatoon 3 player, I think the release/update model helps with the balancing of the game. Splatoon is an online multiplayer game, and the developers won't know what weapons will be great and what weapons will struggle until players get a hold of the game. By waiting to release some content after the game's release, they can adjust the maps and weapons to create a healthy meta that has both diversity and freshness. At the beginning of Splatoon 3, the meta consisted of around 5 weapons due to the maps favoring long-range weapons. However, in the subsequent updates, they released weapons that counter long-range weapons and specials, as well as added maps that made it easier to flank good sniper positions. Currently, the "meta" of Splatoon is far healthier, with a wide variety of weapons and more competitively fair and interesting maps. While there are still problems, this updated model helps developers create a more balanced game. If they had released all maps and weapons at launch it's likely that the majority of maps would not be competitively viable (like how most maps aren't used in competitive smash bros)
I frickin' love ARMS. Still play it with friends from time to time. Most underrated first party release of all time imo. The simplicity of it is what keeps me coming back.
I got to play ARMS once at a console night and I adored it. I would love to get to play it again.
New Horizons was a really unfortunate case, but honestly you can easily sink a couple hundred hours in even without the updates. Plenty of people did back in 2020. Doesn’t make it excusable that the game lacked much of the content the past games had, but I can’t get as mad at it because I still had plenty of fun with it even without the updates. The Mario sports games feel far less excusable, especially strikers
Yeah Scott excusing Nintendo for New Horizons launching unfinished is very unfortunate. The Nintendo fan in him isn't letting him see straight.
Personally I think New Horizons was actually the most egregious of any free updates. To me it DID feel incredibly incomplete. It lacked characters, holidays, and entire type of creature (deep sea diving ones), ALL of this was locked behind free updates for 2 YEARS. So much stuff every other animal crossing game had at launch, trickled down to us for 2 years after waiting ~6 just for the new game? That STUNG. Didn’t help that it kinda feels bland out the box and after you get KK Slider if you don’t like customization there’s not a lot left for you to do, but that’s moreso a game design critique than a free updates one. Overall the game launched in a state that was so laughably lacking in content we’d already had in any other game, after we finally got it all back they barely added anything else of note, noteworthy iconic characters are still missing, and I don’t feel like the new systems and features they added really balanced out what we had lost. ESPECIALLY because by the time new updates having all this cool stuff did come out, most people had already stopped playing.
fr its still insane how paintings/art, one of the core pieces of the museum since the game cube, took so long to be added into the game, being scammed really was there from day one though i guess
The fact updates fell off for like a year before the final one was also pretty abysmal
I guess that was the power of capitalizing on that covid money
main reason i started using my 3ds more, i’m a huge ac fan but after nh i just put my switch down and played acnl and older nostalgic titles.
nothing compares to old nintendo
yeah the updates felt like a scam because it was just adding back in features that animal crossing players expect the game to have in the first place.
Whats interesting about Nintendo’s “free updates” as apposed to Sony or Microsofts is that the later typical resolves many issues that were present either by fixing bugs, adding more content (both cut and new content), making tons of QOF changes, etc but then you look at Nintendos updates, they tend to feel hollow in comparison especially since it hardly addresses the main issues of the game more often than not
Nintendo has basically become kickstarter games that you don't pledge to have made if a goal is met, you simply pay premium prices for games that if they reach a certain goal, then they finish it. Then add paid DLC later to prolong a game.
I can't think of a bigger sin to Mario sports games then battle league.
Boy did they mess that up...
if the game came out complete as it is now, would it be a good game?
@@juanpablo.aNo, because it got the mario sports game treatment of "updates" just being new characters and slight additions to the same multiplayer mode. Fundamentally nothing was added to the game that adds to the SINGULAR mode of play.
RingFit Adventure's update was MASSIVE and highly underrated.
I appreciate that games like Fire Emblem Engage, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 offered both paid dlc and free updates.
I absolutely hate how often devs release updates that add significant features after several months from release. I really enjoyed ACNH at launch and probably put about 50 hours in within the first 2 months. Then I did all I wanted to do in the game and moved on. All of a sudden they add diving, farming, holidays, Crazy Redds, etc. Going back in just to check out the features that would've been awesome had they been there at launch and then moving on after 2 hours is disappointing. It's just hard to get back into the game after you're pretty much done with it.
For Splatoon 2 and 3 I don't think this really is a problem. They're ongoing games that are complete at launch anyways, and this content is extra. Unfinished games like mario golf however don't make sense to do these updates with.
Splatoon 2 and 3 definitely were not complete at launch. 3 had more than 2 at launch but still no where near complete. Every weapon only had one kit, a lackluster amount of maps, one king salmonid, tableturf wasn't playable online, the list goes on.
And no the stuff we're getting now is not extra. This is still what we paid $60 just slowly being given to us. The only thing that isn't part of that is Side Order
@@Chase2473 felt pretty much complete to me. The story mode was much better, salmon run was significantly improved on, and one of each weapon type without variations doesn't sound all that terrible. Everything that came after launch felt like great extras.
@@birdflox1337do you really think things like the jukebox that took 6 months were a nice extra? Or table turf online which is still to this day only playable via created lobby without matchmaking?
That all weapons only had 1 kit is excusable to me, 12 maps at launch would also be excusable if they wouldn't be tetris blocks or straight lines with no options
And Splatoon 3 also had it's good amount of glitches at launch like you could get into walls with tacticooler, ultra stamp almost never hit anything, way more communication errors and disconnects than now, a glitch where your weapon couldn't shoot for whatever reason, the list goes on
Now I want to ask again,
Do you really think Splatoon 3 is a finished game?
@@Jamal_DX The jukebox is the definition of a nice extra, it certainly wasn't essential to the game's quality. Most games don't have that, and if I remember correctly, neither did Splatoon 2. Instead we did get the lockers, which was a very fun addition. I never really liked Table Turf, so the online thing doesn't mean much to me, and it's also not surprising considering the other games' minigames never had online matchmaking of any sort. A lot of Splatoon 3's first maps are pretty bad yeah, though I'm not sure I would say the game felt "incomplete" because of them as they WERE complete, they're just not very well designed. 12 maps at launch is also beyond excusable, that's pretty good.
Some bugs at the start of a PVP game is sadly just bound to happen I think, QA can only catch so much compared to millions of people playing a game at once. As long as launch doesn't feel downright nasty to play it's excusable. I can't think of any other game in this genre that didn't go through this.
So yeah, I definitely still think it felt complete at launch, about as complete as a live service game could be since obviously you're selling this on the basis that people expect more updates in the future.
@@birdflox1337 first, Splatoon 2 actually had the music box with the minigame in the plaza.
Now for the rest, I get your point for table turf but it felt like it wasn't just meant to be a minigame but more like another mode to play for me, thats why no tableturf online felt like something was missing there.
And for the glitches, private battles were unplayable because the lobby crashed like all 2 to 3 matches, there was a glitch that crashed your game when you got a communication error in the salmon run lobby while waiting for players, and the game had way too many communication errors and disconnects which made me feel like it was clearly unfinished and even to this day after it got better with updates, it's still worse than in Splatoon 2 with the disconnects and communication errors which I think should never happen (the online connection in general just feels kind of worse in Splatoon 3 than it was in Splatoon 2 and I think there is no excuse for this and if there is, I would really like to know to understand why it's like this)
If it would be like 1 or 2 of those things, I would say it's fine but all of it together just feels like the game would've needed more time
Arms is a game that really, really changed after launch. They basically changed the whole game up and even added support to traditional controls, which was a huge deal to how the game was played (suddenly it wasn't a gimmick game anymore and could be played a bit more seriously). Shame it was a little too late for most people, the game really failed to make a splash. The sales were pretty good, but basically everything Nintendo released at that time was a guaranteed success, so I don't think they were too impressed with the numbers, considering they never brought it back again.
Its a shame because Arms is really cool, especially conceptually! I still feel like it would have shined the best as a Wii game
I've never disagreed with Scott more
Splatoon felt so finished at launch and everything especially the Splatfests felt great
Meanwhile I've sunk hundreds of hours into every AC except New Horizons specifically because it felt so empty imo
It's worse when you have to pay for something and you have to wait. Splatoon 3 as an example, we got dlc that gave us the old plaza, but we still have to wait for the new story mode that we were told about at the same time.
In a way, yeah that I do have to agree with. Like, if your story expansion is still gonna take a whole year to come out, maybe don’t announce the DLC at all until it’s closer to being ready or introduce an extra wave that isn’t just aesthetics to keep people occupied.
Then don't buy it lmao
Just a public reminder that Mario Golf World Tour on 3DS is still the best Mario sports to come out in the past 10 years.
The genuine anger in his voice
They haven’t been doing this trend lately. Probably because there was no big sports or multiplayer games released this year but I emphasize big Everybody 1 2 Switch came out and didn’t get stuck with the free update stuff.
To be fair, I don't think even Nintendo had any faith in Everybody 1 2 Switch
I hope Nintendo releases a game where you get the right to access the title screen and have to wait 10 months for the A Button to work!
Nintendo Badge Arcade would like to know your location
Nintendo is releasing early access games without actually calling them that.
See Splatoon was literally just unfinished though. The gambit was to release it early, originally it would be a release date close to Mario Maker (which was when the last Ranked Mode was added in updates)
There was SOME content done, but most was absolutely not
Oh yeah
These free updates should be more like a dessert than the main dinner
Speaking of dessert, Kirby's Dream Buffet was a game that could have benefited from free updates... and that never happened. But then again, I didn't care about Dream Buffet.
This is what Kirby Star Allies did and people were very upset about it
Nah sorry Scott, Star Allies was way better after the free updates. That’s some of the best Kirby content ever made from a fan’s perspective.
It's OK to have low standards
My main issue is with how it’s branded. “Free updates” implies that updates are usually something you pay for. Call it free DLC, I don’t care. Maybe it’s me being entitled but I expect my updates to be free
when they started it scared me that animal crossing was going to get *paid updates*
splatoon works for it in my opinion because it makes the game feel so much more alive, which is part of the reason i continue to play almost every day
The fact that Strikers Charged still ended up having more content than Battle League AFTER all of it updates was depressing as hell. Next Level Games was supposed to be our savior when it came to Mario sports games. What makes it worse is that most of the DLC characters were in the BASE GAME of the previous title (which didn't have dlc).
Exactly! And how the heck does one justify making Daisy, FRICKING *DAISY,* a character which has been a staple of at least the spinoff titles, into post-launch content?
Hell, I'm pretty sure the Gamecube original has more content than Battle League. It's beyond pathetic.
Personally I loved splatoon and 2. I never felt when I was playing I was bored and it felt incomplete. The updates made it new and fun, from a game that was already very solid and fun to replay.
Animal Crossing should have been a full blown life service game with tie ins with other Nintendo games. It would still be getting updates today if it was.
Dear Nintendo, please finish your games before you release them, sincerely, everybody
Looks like they've already done it
I mean, with animal crossing, the holidays being added as updates made sense, because for the first year, it meant you were to experience it on that day, and not just change the system clock for it
Thank you. That’s why I never went time travelling for a reason.
If Heroes in Another Dimension and the extra Dream Friends were in Star Allies at launch, we would still be talking about that game to this day.
I never even heard of Mario Strikers: Battle League so that pretty much tells you how good of a game that was.
I love all the random topics you choose for these videos they’re great
Scott's delivery in the opening is perfect
arms feels like the beginning chapters of a fiction book where they explain the setting and characters and try to hook you. but then they forgot to do the rest
I'm starting to think Scott didn't play Star Allies after the updates, it's still my favorite Kirby game to this day and probably will never be dethroned for me
@@alexgarner5719 It's true that this can hurt a game's reputation at launch, but Star Allies is a game that I really enjoyed the update structure in. For a huge Kirby fan in communities with other fans, the buildup to the reveal & release of new dream friends was something really great that had me playing & really enjoying the game for months after release. Meanwhile, Forgotten Land, while a truly incredible Kirby game, was also one that I 100%ed relatively quickly and haven't had a real desire to return to.
thank you scott for your amazing content
Honestly, you did the free update criticism much better than a certain crocodile we don't talk about.
The free update model is such a huge bummer to me because it means that content is missing from the physical cartridge, and Nintendo won’t keep their servers up forever. If someone is feeling nostalgic for AC:NH In fifteen years and picks up a used copy and a second-hand Switch, they’ll find their copy lacks key features like freaking *holidays*, let alone all the addition gameplay added in.
0:00 I scream this to my copy of splatoon every weekday!
Already looking forward to the E3 2024 video
Great start
So funny at the intro!
i think one of the things that Splatoon excels at compared to nintendo's other live service style approaches is just the regularity and amount of content
Splatoon 1 and 2 iirc had just about weekly updates, or pretty close to weekly at least. there was always a new weapon, or stage, or SOMEthing. even now with Splatoon 3, updates are less frequent, but much bigger in size and very regular - every three months on the dot, you get 10-ish weapons (including either a new main or special. usually), two new stages, some new salmon run stuff, new cosmetics and usually some extras on top. music, modes, QoL features, whatever you want
i think for Splatoon 1 and to a lesser extent 2 also used their free updates as a way to ease players into the gameplay. Splatoon is a 'simple' game but does take a while to get used to its differences compared to other shooters, and they were also aiming to grab an audience that wouldn't usually play shooters. keeping options limited at the start and slowly introducing more maps, weapon types, and etc probably did help with the transition IMO. splatoon 3 has a much more dedicated userbase so that was probably not as big of a concern
yeah - i agree with this video that Splatoon 1 taking this approach was a risk. Splatoon reviewed, not poorly, but middling at launch due to the lack of content.
Splatoon 2 at launch was a little slimy because they withheld advertised content (e.g. the brella) and also took weapons away that were in Splatoon 1 and made a whole big deal about re-releasing them. At the time I mained the rapid blaster pro and I remember needing to wait 2 months for it to be added back into the game lol.
Overall I like the way Splatoon 3 does it, gives the meta a big shakeup every 3 months and keeps it fresh without withholding content that was in S2 (except for X rank).
The biggest problem for me is what happens in 10 years with these games? Servers will be shut down and you wont have access to a lot of this extra content, just the base game which was intentionally limited.
I find it interesting how my opinion differs from Scott's on both Splatoon 2 and 3. When Splatoon 2 launched, I felt it was packed with a lot of content, and there were a pretty alright selection of stages. With the later free updates adding even more to it, and most of them were great additions. Splatoon 3 on the other hand, felt really empty, and still kinda does for me. I'm hoping they keep adding new kits for other weapons rather than just making a new one and only giving the one kit. The splatanas still dont have a lot of options, nor does the stringers, at least in my opinion. I do think a lot of the new weapons are really neat additions and are cool concepts to already established weapon classes, but without too many options to change your sub and your special, it just feels like theres not a lot for me personally. I do love the way they had the singleplayer mode done in this game. I love how they took inspiration from Octo Expansion in the way the levels and world feels. But at launch specifically, Splatoon 3 feels way more empty and hollow than how Splatoon 2 did for me.
I disagree regarding Splatoon 3 being empty on launch, that game had a ton of stuff in it. 24/7 salmon run, 12 stages, THE CATALOGUE, just to name a few, kept me coming back every single day after it came out. I do agree that it feels empty now, but that’s the fault of the update model and the devs adding less kits every season. On the upside, I’m fairly sure we’ll end up getting a third year of updates and splatfests, so hopefully that’ll help
@aegis84 A lot of functions such as passcode lobbies and what not were added later after launch. 24/7 salmon run is nice, but even Big Run and what not were added later. The catalog is a nice feature, but I'm not interested in grinding levels to finish it every season. The table turf game was also incomplete on launch, but I'm not sure how many people play it - I played a few of the ai levels, and I felt done with it.
Edit: also 12 stages does not feel like much at all when youre playing only those few for weeks straight before they added any new ones. There were a few stages that I outright would choose not to play if they were shown for ranked or even turf war.
@@aegis8424/7 salmon run..... imagine a mode you payed for being available whenever you want as a "complete experience "
its not a free update. its just an update.
Mario Strikers Battle League was such a slap in the face to everyone who waited over a decade for it.
Mario Strikers on Switch is the worst offender
I just got Invisalign too, and I now have a significant lisp now. I understand your pain.
I didn’t notice the invisalign til scott mentioned it and now i can’t unhear it
The update format for New Horizons probably made the game less stable. It would crash and delete people's islands. Even after they did the recovery feature, which took months, you had to call Nintendo support, convince them to manually do it on their end because it was only meant for lost of broken systems, and then have it continue to crash. Even after starting a new island, it would randomly delete it (more players seemed to make it more likely, so the current island that has lasted like 2 years just has 2 people). Because they didn't have a proper backups available, this will always be the worst Animal Crossing game. I would go back to play any other entry before this, Amiibo Festival, here I come!
Fr I was so mad I had to spend an hour on hold trying to get the backup restored on my island. Like why isn't the backup accessible to users?? So dumb
Tecnically you could say Pikmin 3 started this, since the game at launch had way fewer side missions than 2 but then they added some via free updates (plus paid DLC).
15:19 I’m surprised you didn’t bring up that code for both stage builder and home run were found in the files back when the game first came out
Hey Scott, your orthodontist here. I'm glad you're keeping up with wearing your Invisalign.
I need a whole episode on Scott ranting about Mario Strikers: Battle League
I strangely enjoy how invisalign makes scott sound
If he didn’t mention it I wouldn’t have noticed.
@@spudworks_ same
I honestly forgot but Mario Odyssey also came out with free updates in which they added more costumes and Luigi’s balloon mini game in which you can earn coins
Mario Strikers probably stung the most out of all of them. Especially since they went the extra mile to strip sidekicks out of the game and make all captains playable.
Wait... No, no, no. That's not the worst crime of the game! The actual WORST crime was stripping the characters from their cool personalities that were EXCLUSIVELY found in Strikers! It felt so bland that it just doesn't feel like a sequel.
@@adryaunadavis6370 This too. Honestly the entire game is one bad decision after the other in order to make it more corporate and ironically the League system just made everyone realize that only like the 1% of dedicated players can do anything more than just getting to the goal area and shoot unopposed.
I also never liked the "good parts" that people were so happy about like that animation style for the mega strikes, sure it may look impressive but it's as long as some Anime Fighters' cutscenes and it's just not engaging at all.
@@M30W3R Couldn't agree more! But that was almost over a year ago. I think that Nintendo learned their lessons ever since we saw what was for 2023-2024. I think that we will see good results for the year to come.
scott already went over this well but coming from a splatoon fan, splatoon 2 definitly had the issue of the game being a skeleton at launch but the dlc and paid dlc they added was REALLY GOOD. the system they used post 3.0.0 actually made me stay invested in the game. splatoon 3 has the opposite problem it had a full good story mode and a LOT to do on launch but after you unlock a lot of the content, the game feels boring and then the new season update structure is also AWFUL and ive seen a ton of people quit after launch because of this update cycle.
The most frustrating thing for me is once the inevitable server closure happens, we'll be left with only partial versions of these games on our carts.
This is the best Nintendo Games with "Free Updates" video I've ever seen
If Scott didn’t say he’s wearing an Invisalign, I never would have thought he’s wearing an Invisalign. I’m thinking about it now.
I wouldn’t have noticed your voice sounding different from the Invisalign, but as soon as you said it, I heard it the WHOLE video lol
In Splatoon's case it's actually pretty good
All the content Splat 3 currently has would be super overwhelming if it was all available on day 1
I agree. I hate the catalogue and FOMO though.
Yeah, I don't understand this way of looking at games as how much raw "content" they provide. A Splatoon game with 50 stages at launch would not make a better gameplay experience than one with 10. You'd just never be able to figure out anything about how each stage plays and which ones you enjoy
@alexgarner5719people who say that never played past turf and 2 rounds of ranked,
If you played both you’d know even just swimming feels very different.
The movement in 3 is unlike any other and the learning curve is very difficult in this one.
The customization is better than ever (a huge part of Splatoon’s thing.)
What were they expecting? Us to NOT shoot ink anymore?
As I’ve said many times, Splatoon is like Smash Bros in an away that it’s the same premise, different meta and new content every time
@alexgarner5719 I get what you mean. I do think 3 has many missed opportunities and could have been done better in some parts. The difference is still clear if you asked someone who played 2 and 3 for a while. The series will always need a refresher at some point. I think it’s fully fair after 5 years we get a new meta and story, alongside that the scene is more alive than ever
What do you mean "overwhelming"? You like playing unfinished rubbish?
I never caught onto this until watching this vid
thank you , Scott
That intro is perfect "out of context" material
Been waiting for an episode talking about this! Didn't expect it not to be on your main channel though. 😆
If you ask me, I don’t think the free update model is the problem. It’s that the games need to feel like they have enough content to play around with from start to finish.
Like, take Kirby Star Allies for what I think is the ideal example of this system. I know it’s not the most popular Kirby game, and I do think Forgotten Land and Return to Dream Land Deluxe both eclipse it in terms of quality, but I liked the game alright. It’s as fun as any Kirby game is, for me.
But to start, you have the story mode, the Guest Star mode, the Arena, and new sub games. All the regular stuff Kirby games usually have is present and accounted for, so all the added on characters really did just feel like bonus content you could pop back in if you wanted to or just… not. It didn’t feel like the game was light on content as someone who did all the Guest Star runs if I didn’t have Daroach to do Guest Star mode with.
And then they added Heroes in Another Dimension, which DID feel like a substantial update, but again, it didn’t feel lacking without. It felt like a nice bonus to the game.
A number of these games either struggle at the start to have enough options to not get stale fast like the Splatoon examples, don’t have enough content outside multiplayer like ARMS or Mario Strikers (as far as I could tell, the game didn’t catch my eye), or both.
I don’t think the system is inherently bad, perhaps an unpopular opinion, but the games need to have enough stuff at launch that any bonus content feels like bonus content and not like finishing a game. And, you know, even if your game feels like it’s being finished through free updates… it should feel finished at the end.
But hey, I’ll take this over a scummy battle pass laden with microtransactions any day. An underwhelming game they wanted people coming back to is a way better practice than one they want your life, your soul, and most importantly, your WALLET to be glued to.
Star Allies didn't feel incomplete without HIAD, but it wasn't that good without it.
Couple things:
1. This also happened to Odyssey, but that game was far and away already complete. The new content amounted to an online balloon game (and an excuse to have Luigi), new costumes, new hint art that led to coins instead of moons, and a VR mode, all of which were welcome additions to a complete game. Wonder will be the exact same if it ever gets more content.
2. It doesnt look like Nintendo will ever do this again. Switch Sports was the last non Splatoon game this happened to. I think Nintendo has learned their lesson.