A much simpler perspective is that timeline 4 is the timeline we've been following ever since the beginning, and we only learned retrospectively that others came before it. Meaning our characters aren't the "originals", but they're our originals...
shouldn’t they all be similar until the point in which trunks arrives which creates the branching point? or are the timelines parallel and trunks hops between them?
The timeline doesn't branch until Cell arrives after the Frieza Arc ends, so you're basically watching all of the timelines at once, they don't duplicate the entire story up to that point just branch off.
@@prometheusmodelow8322 What I'm saying is: Basically just imagine it from the perspective of those living in timeline Four. They didn't switch universes after Trunks arrived, they simply lived through one unbroken stream of events that they only found out later was not the original timeline...
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 They were all the same events, but occuring in seperate timelines where they occurred. Like copies of a save file. From the original file, changes can be made on top of what's already there, but they are still seperate files...
BTW, a clue to solving the *"plot hole"* is described earlier in that same chapter in Trunks and Gohan's discussion. Before talking to Gohan, Trunks still doesn't fully understand how time travel works and Gohan's interruption reminds him that going further back would just create another timeline. The "original" Future Trunks wasn't thinking this and never had the talk with Gohan, so he intentionally set the time machine further back to deal with Gero before he could create the Androids.
yeah that could solve it, that part was told by cell so it's his interpretation of what trunks intended to do. who knows? maybe the outcome wasn't that ideal but he did find a way to defeat the androids and wanted a better outcome
After all, we don't actually know WHY that Trunks attempted to return. It was only Cell's speculation - Which I guess just makes him and Piccolo stupid for failing to notice that it made no sense...
@Andrew Ace bc trunks didn't think of why it wouldn't make sense, bro didn't think to deep into timeliness before the talk with Gohan, crazy how a lil kid and a teenager figured it out over a 10 second convo, than a literal demon king and an android built to reach perfection.
Man this channel is very refreshing. I like the take on trying to explore narrative questions about the series, inconsistencies or if things are written differently than we percieve them as topics. Just to see something new to the content angles here is what I find more interesting.
There are at least five timelines as far as we can tell; three future timelines, one where Trunks deactivates the androids after finding the remote schematics but gets killed by Cell because he wasnt any stronger and one where he destroys them and Cell because he knows of Cell thanks to the other future timeline but which eventually gets wiped by Zamasu and a final one where Trunks goes back to before Zamasu shows up (and never will) but somehow has to live with a duplicate Trunks and Mai, and two present timelines, one that follows the movies into end of Z/GT and one that follows Z into super which can be dumbed down into Beerus waking up early causing that split. Yeah it gets very confusing lol. But yeah, the "original" timeline was the first Trunks timeline, we are indeed following a new timeline from the androids saga.
Finally someone else gets the whole androids/Cell saga time travel thing the way I do. I've always thought I was alone in thinking that way. Some people don't even know about the unseen timeline. Though I have to wonder which changes were caused by only Trunks traveling back, and which ones Cell ended up changing. There is something to be said about the chaos theory but mostly I think the changes are just convenient for the story
I’ve always thought about it like this too but no one really paid attention to dbz/kai about the timeline and always say that the trunks we see is the original but I wanna say the first trunks we see is the one that dies sadly and the second trunks is a duplicate and the others after the cell saga are the 3 duplicates
All versions of the Z Warriors are the version we watched since the start of OG DB, it's like going back to an earlier save file in a video game and choosing a different story option, it's still the same character.
Makes sense because the first 3 seasons of DBZ was a perfect story that stood on it's own. And then when we start in the 4th season it's a different timeline
This makes me want to go rewatch Qaaman's Trunks' "Secret Mission" theory video. Really good analysis on this, LSM! Really made me think about how to view the story from now on.
Original Timeline Bulma has no-one not even Trunks as Cell murdered him. She doesn't even have the time machine to try and visit another timeline to see her friends again.
This theory does make sense for the fact that Cell being there would make it a different timeline from what would have lead to Trunks' timeline. That also means the main timeline is actually Cell's new timeline.
Its crazy to think just what kind of tech Bulma managed to put together in Trunk's time machine. That thing doesn't travel through time: it travels across multiverses. Trunks is able to create branches in the timeline, that don't connect to his own anymore, and hop between them to "visit". For example, when he arrived to help fight androids 19 and 20, that future is no longer connected to his own by his own actions fighting Freeza and giving Goku the virus cure. And yet hes able to travel "across" time to reach it.
@@superboygamer9095 because across in the sense of linear time travel is impossible. It's applying a 2D concept to a 1D plane. It's the closest descriptor of what the machine does, but it's inaccurate to describe it as literally "across".
Yeah. It's incredibly depressing knowing the cute little Goku and friends we grew up with die tragically. And for what? FOR WHAT!? All the sacrifices they made...for nothing. Everyone fucking dies anyway by the Androids, Cell and then Zeno. Nas was right. Life's a bitch and then ya die.
Exactly, it happened to us aswell, we also live in a multiverse, in one future reality A.I won and wiped us all out and all we are experiencing now is a simulation
I would argue that we've never "switched" timelines. We the viewer have just been following the alternate timeline created by Trunks since the start of Dragonball from our perspectives.
I believe the most logical headcannon reason is that they accidently created a cannon where one timeline went to GT and another went to Super. It happened 3 years after Android training where Trunks came back again to fight in the Cell games. That's where the two timelines split for the second time. The first split is Goku dying or not to the Virus, and the second split is Trunks coming back or not and interfering a second time. Trunks had a pretty big part in the story. He helped hard-core develop Vegeta during this time. The 2nd timeline we don't see is what happens after Trunks doesn't return. *If they accepted this idea or something similar as cannon, it would be a way to make both shows cannon so they don't lose out on that sweet sweet SSJ4 merch.
GT was never not canon. It's just not the main timeline. Super is. Just like how the movies aren't canon which at least gt us canon to some. How do we know? Cooler leaves hell in GT with other villains 😊😊
I've pondered this theory myself for a long time.the Android/cell saga left an impact on me unlike any of the others in the franchise and its not even my favorite saga
i didnt know i've been watching The History of Trunks all my life since i was 7 lol i had no idea i've been following the HOT timeline instead of the actual series ever since the begnning of Saiyan Saga 😂
Cell didn't travel back that far. He travelled back a year before Frieza arrived on Earth, which is still after Namek blew up. There is roughly a year, to a year and half between Goku defeating Frieza, and Frieza arriving on Earth.
One thing to note that makes way more sense to me. Originally it’s depicted as if Trunks was coming back to them before the 3 years was up but I think that was just an overlooked inconsistency or you could count what comes after as the inconsistency. But Cell doesn’t show up to Trunks until some time after he defeats the Androids after returning from the main timeline. It makes more sense to me that originally that’s where Trunks would have died and that he originally helped in the unseen timeline. Because I don’t see how Cell arriving before Trunks changes anything about how Cell in his timeline would show up
It's all relative. Ever since the first time I saw DragonBall Z, I never thought that Bulma actually built a time traveling ship, at least not in the traditional sense of a time ship. I've always thought that she actually built a multiunversal travel ship. Every time someone uses it, they're actually jumping into an alternate universe, albeit to any time period of that particular universe. Then Super came along and demonstrated even more evidence of this. The time ship was able to travel numerous times without ever having created new time rings.
Actually, the Cell that we see in the show and manga fighting Gohan is also a duplicate. He is a duplicate of the Cell that created the timeline of the Trunks we see. There's the original Cell, who traveled back and created Trunks' timeline, and the duplicate of the original Cell, who was created because of Trunks traveling back into a past in which Cell was already present. There's also the Cell born in Trunks' timeline who appears after Trunks defeated the androids and Trunks easily killed him. The original Cell is actually MIA, I'm not sure what happened to him and why he never attacked in Trunks' timeline, especially when the androids were around so long. (My theory is that he was starved of the energy from citizens and the Z fighters thanks to 17's and 18's killing spree) (He may have even been beaten by 17 and 18 before he could amass enough energy to defend himself)
So my theory is that, that's why future Goku acts like that because just simply one change can create a different future so that's why super happened instead of the end of Z
wait what if trunks timeline was actually the movie timelines like Dead Zone Tree of Might Lord Slug all the way up to Meta Cooler where no time traveler showed up? then the characters we knew were not duplicates at all
The movie timeline or at least some of them are actually GTs timeline it has multiple references to wrath of the dragon and cooler is seen escaping hell
Doesn't it make more sense if the first split happens with Trunks? Because for Cell to time travel Trunks has to make both trips first, because that's how Cell knew about the time machine. As for jumping to another timeline, I do believe that when Blooma calls the plane, we jump to the new present timeline created by Cell.
The last villain goku defeats in the original timeline is either king cold or cooler. He died of a heart virus, and the universe was eventually doomed because of Zamasu.
I've been under the impression that the timeline we are in in z is the alternate one. Trunks comes back in time and its not his world its this one, the timeline split at that moment and somehow trunkss original timeline is parallel to this new one and can be reached back and forth. All of dragon ball original series must take place in the second timeline as well
I’ve always had a thought ever since dbs came out, that cell was never at his full power and could easily copy Goku’s power now the same same way he did back then. 🤔
I want to see someone (hopefully as dragonball smart as you) do a FULL timeline story telling so saying everything sequentially from each timeline and when they were created etc
@@KilluaGon I've been watching Quamman's video on this subject for literally a decade and I still don't fully understand it. But it is the best attempt to explain this subject.
Watch Plague of gripes video on it. Timeline assholes I believe he originally called it. There is an audio version and a visual version. Try to find the visual version. Though be prepared for ranting because he tries to explain why it doesnt make sense. It's a really good video though imo
@@tjbanville its pretty simple once you keep watching over and over again. Essentially there are 4 timelines the OG, Future Trunks, Main and Unseen timeline. The OG timeline is the first timeline with no time travelers, this is the timeline cell came from. The trunks that came from the OG timeline went to an unseen timeline we didn't see. Now when cell went back he created 2 timelines the main timeline and trunks timeline.
I've thought about doing it myself, and I've ran over the timeline in my head - including the movies in the future, OG, and unseen timelines. I'll try to give a 'brief' summary of what I think would happen. Spoiler alert, they play out similarly to the main timeline. The future, OG and unseen timelines would start the same, the difference from the main timeline being that Cell didn't go back in time, so a few animals would be spared, and some wouldn't have a time machine as their home. Let's continue. Next would split off with the future and OG timelines. Frieza and Cold would invade and order their soldiers to kill everyone on Earth. The Z-Fighters would step in and stop the soldiers before they caused much harm, and Vegeta (With maybe Piccolo) would eventually go to face Frieza. They'd do better than their performance on Namek since they've been training, but Frieza would dominate the fight. Goku would IT to Earth before things got too serious, go SSJ, and with the help of Vegeta, would pretty easily kill Frieza for good. They'd have King Cold to deal with next, and depending on if he could transform or not, I reckon the scenario would go differently. Either: Cold can't transform. Goku and Vegeta would take him on, and beat him with only a little difficulty. Or Cold can transform. He'd only go to his third form, and it'd need all of the Z-fighters to take him on, as he'd outmatch Goku on his own. The group kill him, and celebrate Goku's return. The next 2 years go peacefully, Gohan would love spending his time with his dad (Going on camping trips and hosting BBQs) and he'd devote more time to study. Goku would still get back to training eventually and spar with Piccolo, and Vegeta would tear his hair out trying to surpass him and unlock the SSJ form himself. Goku would get sick with the heart virus, everyone would panic and give him Senzu beans which wouldn't work. He'd die, his friends would be sad and use the Dragon Balls to revive him, but they wouldn't work either. Infuriated by being handed title of #1, Vegeta would obtain SSJ in a fit of rage sometime later. Half a year later, West City would be attacked by Androids 19 and 20. The Z-Fighters would investigate, only to get blind sighted by the Androids (Likely Yamcha would get butchered). Piccolo would be the one to fight 19, putting up a decent fight against him but eventually getting overpowered after firing off a Masenko. Vegeta would intervene before the others get a chance to, and due to his training & unlocking SSJ, he'd destroy 19 just like in the main timeline. Android 20 would retreat across the ocean to the islands where his lab is, but get caught by the Z-Fighters. He'd fight Piccolo who wants to make up for his performance against 19, and would get pushed back by the Namekian. Gero would fire off a huge blast and escape with the smoke, getting back to his lab and awakening 17/18. They'd kill Gero, and soon seek out the Z-Warriors. They'd try to explain that Goku's dead, but they wouldn't have it, engaging them in a large scale battle, with Vegeta fighting 18 and the others fighting 17. The warriors would lay defeated, with the Androids going off to look for Goku, never discovering 16 as the lab wasn't destroyed. Vegeta would stand around for a few days wondering how to get past SSJ, soon getting back to training. Piccolo would ask Kami if they could fuse, but he'd say no, as the androids were no more than petty criminals for now and not worth the trouble. Over the next few weeks, the Androids would get impatient looking for Goku, and start killing people and blasting buildings to lure him out. The Z-Fighters would confront them again, this time using their special techniques (Like the Tri-beam and SPC). They'd do much better against the Androids this time around, so the twins would see them as a potential threat, and would wipe them out before they could regroup and get stronger. Gohan, Bulma and Trunks are the only survivors from the group, failing to use the Dragon Balls as the Pilaf gang wished to become younger. Maybe Gohan goes SSJ shortly after that? Over the next few years, Chichi would forbid Gohan from facing the Androids, though he would still train daily to one day stand up against the Androids, eventually taking in Trunks and training with him. As this happened, Babidi's spaceship would reach Earth, and the evil wizard would drain people's energy, slowly gathering enough to revive Buu. Maybe Pui Pui would meet the Androids, but wouldn't stand a chance against them. Though he'd still be more fun to fight than the humans, so they'd let him escape. The History of Trunks would take place, with Gohan fighting the Androids a few times, losing his arm and then dying. Trunks would try to avenge his death years later, but would still lose. He'd go into the past for a few hours, return to the future for about 4 months, evading the Androids, and then going back into the past. This would split off the OG and Future timeline. In the Future timeline, Trunks goes back to the future as a buff boi, and destroys 17/18. 3 years later he kills Cell, and then goes back to the past AGAIN to tell the Z-fighters he'd won, returning to the future soon after. After even more time passes, Trunks gets approached by the Supreme Kais and is warned about Babidi/Buu. He trains with them for a while on the Sacred Kai world, before going back to Earth and dealing with Babidi's forces. He'd take out Pui Pui and Yakon easily, though Dabura would be too strong for him. After he kills Kabito and the Supreme Kai, Trunks would go SSJ2, killing both Dabura and Babidi with ease, and preventing Buu from resurrecting. Then Super happens, which I won't go into. In the OG timeline, Trunks goes back to the future a bit stronger than when he left. He'd go to Gero's lab to get 17/18's blueprints, and give them to Bulma who'd use them to create a remote control to shut the Androids down. Trunks hunts the Androids down and uses the control on them, either shutting them both down, or shutting one of them down and then facing the other in 1v1 combat, barely destroying them with brute force. 3 years later he tries to go back in time, but is blind sighted by Cell. He'd face him as a SSJ, but would still get killed by him. Though he'd leave Cell brutally injured. Cell would then kill/absorb Bulma, revert into his larval state, climb into the time machine, and go back into the past, in the Unseen timeline. As for the remainder of the OG timeline, Babidi and Dabura would eventually get enough energy to revive Buu. But by that point, Goku Black would've spotted them, taking Babidi, Pui Pui, Yakon and Dabura out with minimal effort, and would barely manage to destroy Fat Buu. He'd then go on to enact the Zero Mortals plan, which would probably end in a scuffle between him and Moro. I'll put the Unseen timeline in another comment as this one's become too long already.
It's why I actually sometimes don't like calling the unseen timeline "unseen", because excluding Cell (remember they didn't know about him until bulma found out about the time machine), the events were the exact same as main timeline up until Bulma showing Trunks the Original time travel machine. We did see the unseen timeline, only part that was unseen was Bulma creating the remote and the androids being defeated using it.
I mean, yes and no. The timeline split a few times. The characters are less duplications and more of just a different life the character could live. They're the same people in different scenarios. Sure, time travel creates new timelines, but you can think of that more like our characters are on a mine cart ride with a splitting path and they tested out each path. We're seeing what happened when they went down the path that had a Trunks and Cell from other paths cross over. So we're still following the same characters, we're just seeing only one of their outcomes. Though, you could argue that we missed a lot of their story because we didn't see their full other timeline variants from Trunks's History and Cell's History. A, The History of Cell, special would be fun to watch
All cells timeline is is a unaltered outcome for Trunks where he used a shut down device to defeat the Androids, he never train in the past with Vegeta so he was far weaker than the future Trunks we know, leaving him powerless to stop cell leading to cell strangling him and stealing the Time Machine, but the same events from the history trunks also happened in Cells timeline, the timelines don't diverge until Trunks returns back from his second trip to the past.
@@brandonnelson-ey5mt Trunks was using the time machine to go back to tell Goku and friends that he defeated the Androids, so I'm pretty sure it's implied he did train with Vegeta, since they needed the time chamber to defeat the androids in the past anyways (I'm curious if Piccolo fused with Kami in that timeline that future future Trunks went to), and Cell just caught him off guard by suppressing his power level. That's why Trunks knows Cell's there when he's getting ready for his return trip and it catches Cell off guard because he was suppressing his power level in the timeline with the future Trunks we know too, waiting to also ambush him
@@Chronoflation what I'm telling you is, the Trunks that cell killed went to a different past similar to the main timeline we know only difference is cell was not Present in that timeline as the gang never discovered that other time machine like we see in our timeline, so In conclusion There was no need for them to train in the hyperbolic chamber, more than likely the Bulma in that timeline created in an emergency shut down device and that's how Trunks was able to beat the Androids in the unseen timeline and his original timeline.
@@brandonnelson-ey5mt I get why you're saying that, but I disagree they'd use the shutdown device. Goku decided to go in the time chamber regardless of Cell because they weren't strong enough for the Androids, and he and Vegeta would never just accept that they're weaker than an enemy and have to use some one button device to kill them. I would put money on them still training in the time chamber, though Goku may not have pushed himself so far without Cell, much less Gohan. No Super Saiyan 2 for sure. But everything else still happening I definitely believe. Maybe Goku would go in the time chamber with Vegeta, since there wouldn't be the bigger threat of Cell, but knowing that Trunks needs to take out the Androids in his time period, I doubt Goku would make any different strategy. The real question is whether or not Kami would fuse with Piccolo and if Piccolo would survive his fight with 17, cause, even if he won, 18 or a possible 16 in that timeline would probably wipe out a tired Piccolo. Fun food for thought, since Bulma needed that extra day anyways to make the power off button anyhow, and if she gave it to Krillin again, then we both know how that goes
@@Chronoflation who knows honestly, Maybe Android 16 was more the threat in that timeline more so than 17 and 18, once Goku recovers from the virus, Who to say 16 didn't go berserk and wipe everybody out and Trunks managed to escape in his time machine just in time and made it back to his own time zone. Maybe that's why he was gonna go back a year earlier than he originally did to kill Dr Gero and destroy the Androids while they were in their pods and avoid the whole thing, but cell creeps up on him and takes him out sadly.
I believe the timeline we're presented with from the very start is the alternate timeline. Which is then made the original timeline from our perspective.
I wouldn't necessarily saw WE switched. The original timeline Trunks is from exists as a narrative tool. But the timeline we folllow is one that includes the changes of all the timeline (every new time travel instance making a new future will hold prior time travel in "its" canonical past). I. E. the characters in the Cell Saga went through 100% of the events of the Red Ribbon arc (etc)
I'd always figured Cell appearing in the time machine was a butterfly effect. So was 16 being activated. I still don't know how Cell killed the Trunks who killed the androids. As to beat them, Trunks had to be close to SSJ Grade 2 to beat them, which is stronger than Cell.
That version of Trunks most likely did not go through the hyperbolic Time chamber unlike the future trunks we know. He used the remote to kill the androids which brought peace to his world but since he wasn't strong enough like the other future trunks (I don't know if Xeno trunks should be included but he is a future trunks variant) and, he was killed.
@@tenkyu778 So he went and talked with Bulma without Vegeta or Goku knowing? Especially Vegeta since he lives there. "in-universe, it doesn't make sense" In actuality, it is simply bad writing.
If we go off what's said in some extended dragonball series GT is one of the timelines created by trunks when he traveled back in time. It also explains the movies as well, at least a few like cooler onwards. Especially since cooler exists in the GT timeline. We see him leave hell. It would also explain the discrepancies between the original dbz story, super, and gt. They're just slightly different versions from eachother with GT being either the second or third timeline and the one we've been following from cell saga to super being the 4th one. With its main difference being beerus not waking. Now, we also know that there's likely different versions of trunks that branch off from the original trunks. Prime trunks aka timeline 4 trunks, the one that died against cell, GT trunks, likely super's future trunks and the one that died. It's very likely that Super's future trunks is the one we saw at the end, the one who trained with vegeta, died to cell, killed the androids and then cell. What about time patroll trunks from the games? Is that a different trunks? Yes. If I would guess he's the Z movies trunks. Either way we know for a fact GT is a seperate timeline and is still "Canon" it's just not the main timeline.
In the meantime, lets look into goku's head. Goku: I want to fight the grand priest. Everyone: No goku Goku: You have to say it three times otherwise I'm going. Everyone: Goku no fighting, goku no fighting, goku no...where did he go. Whis: He went to fight Grand Priest. Everyone: NO!!!!! Goku: *Infront of Grand Priest* Hey it's me Goku. Grand Priest: Ha just like the thing. Goku: Exactly like the thing, what thing again?
Technically the story we've been following is the same one we've been following from the jump, we woke up one day and trunks was there taking out frieza, and explaining things, yes the original end point of the characters and fate was dying from the androids, but we never saw or witnessed it which means thats not our characters timeline, look at it like this(as if we are characters in the show) our timeline is everything we actually experienced, even if it was altered from and alternate timeline, so yes the true ending and fate of the characters weve been following is to die by the androids, but in our timeline trunks came and warned us, we arent the first original time line just by trunks coming back changes that, but the timeline we're following the whole time is the alternate, im tryna say everything we whatch is our main story and everything we didn't see is the original, the original timeline is our alternate timeline and the alternate timeline, were everything works out, is OUR main timeline, because thats OUR "reality" trunks came to our characters to warn them, they are the ones we've been following the whole time, our characters are just the timeline where everything works out, even if we aren't the originals everything is original to us, we never followed the original characters even if they were the original timeline we've only followed the alternate we are the alternates but weve always followed the alternate timeline, we only hear about the originals who are actually just alternates to us, if i tell you that i come from the future and u die there, to you everything i say almost doesn't matter because you're chilling nothing has happened for you yet and you only know of thing up till where i changed things which is me telling you of my future, my future may be the original but to you its the alternate, because we only been following the alternate. THE ALTERNATE TIMELINE IS THE VIEWER'S MAIN TIMELINE, THE ORIGINAL TIME LINE IS THE UNSEEN TIMELINE BUT THE ORIGINAL TIMELINE DOESN'T MATTER TO US BECAUSE THATS NOT OUR EXPERIENCE, WE ONLY HEAR ABOUT IT, ITS ALTERNATE TO US, OR you can say trunks coming back IS part of our timeline, our timeline is the same as the original up until that point our timeline has different events because trunks decided to change them but all we know is trunks changing them because that happens seamlessly for us because that happens in our timeline, it just happens as part of our story, because we've always been following the alternate which is our main. We never followed the main timeline which is OUR alternate😢
Think of it also like this, the broly movie for z happens in an alternate timeline some were in between Android saga and the cell games, the movies are like if trunks took us to an alternate time line and let us watch, those are our first experiences seeing these things, the show is everything we've seen from the beginning so that's our main story, but we see the original timeline in flash backs, never part of our main story, the original time line for us is just as alternate as any alternate timeline movie from the dbz movies, broly from super is the first time goku and vegeta use the fusion dance and meet Broly in OUR main timeline, but(if we go by my previous statement) trunks has showed us an alternate timeline where Broly and paragas showed up way earlier in z . If I'm not mistaken the history of trunks movie(is showing what happened to the original timeline) the movies in z are us looking into alternate realities.
What if the missing time that actually connect the plot holes is the anime time line is it’s either original or main time the deviation could be possible most would say it’s one missing timeline but i think it’s 2 missing timelines. Which would be the anime timeline and the movies timeline 🤷🏿♂️
Always thought about this. But i wouldnt say it diminished anything. Even if this " new " goku isnt the exact one we were with from the beginning its still him. He went through the exact same thing until the time alterations. Awesome video man.
just because it's not the original timeline doesn't make them duplicates, or different from the characters we followed before the split. in my opinion, instances of the same characters from any timeline are the same characters we had been following. the only way you could say a switch occurred is if we followed events along one branch, and then the plot switched to another branch; what you're proposing is that the events along one branch happened offscreen to give rise to the branch we follow, in which there is a continuous path all of our characters follow through time with which to be considered themselves.
I think iur time line, the “main” time line, is the one that matters, like say there’s 4 time lines, 3 of them revolve around the one in the center, the one in the center is the main one, and the others are used to make sure the one in the center has its perfect outcome. So the 3 extra ones go bad, for trunks to become the bot from the future, and come to the main TL and help.
It's a really fun theory and something I thought about before, but I just came to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter all that much, because it's all about perspective. Since both timelines were the same up until Trunks showed up to defeat Freeza, what changes knowing that we were looking at the Original timeline up until that point anyway?
There’s basically 3 versions of time travel in fiction: 1. The future can be changed. Things done in the past will undo the future. This model is used in the Back to the Future movies and the Terminator franchise. 2. Changing the past creates a new timeline/parallel universe, and doesn’t affect the future that the time traveller came from. This is used in Dragon Ball, and the MCU. 3. The timeline is fixed. Anything that the time traveller does was always meant to happen. Often efforts to change the timeline end up being what causes it.
Dragon ball timelines prepared us all well for the MCU Multiverse. Seemed like it confused a lot of people, but us dragon ball fans, we knew all about it. Lol
But in all seriousness, I just take it as we have been following this timeline from the beginning. There could be countless alternate timelines due to time travels we don't know about
Those theory is how I assumed it was. The dark future of trunk tineline where cell eventually kills him is the original/real timeline and the "main tineline" is thr happy Disney Channel version
The way I see it: Dead Trunks and grown Cell are from timeline A, future Trunks is from timeline B, everyone else is and always has been from timeline C which is the only one we have ever seen (disregarding specials and flashbacks.) Grown Cell and future Trunks travel to timeline C due to problems in their native timeline. Future Trunks returns to timeline B stronger and wiser. Timeline C was also timeline A & B.
What about the timeline the future trunks that cell killed went to, that would be timeline b, the trunks we got in the story as timeline c and the one we follow to the buu saga as timeline d
And don't forget the timeline where Goku takes Gohan to meet Bulma Master roshi and Krillin for the first time and gets kidnapped by Gaelic Juniors henchmen instead of Raditz and all the other Dragonball movies up until Battle of Gods and the garlic jr. Saga of the DBZ anime taking place in this timeline where Goku survived and killed Frieza went home with everyone else but still went into outer space at some point to do some sort of training cuz he wasn't around in the garlic jr. Saga never got sick of the Heart virus and defeated Cooler, Lord Slug, three more Androids that did not exist in the original timeline as well as the Legendary Super Saiyan Broly then he would die at some point between the Broly movie and Bojack movie helping his kids beyond the grave up until the Wrath of the Dragon movie Goku will somehow come back to a life through unexplained ways between Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon movies then Trunks will get his iconic sword from Tapion after Bulma building a time machine for Tapion so he can use this time machine to save his little brother from ever being killed by Hirudegarn and then create another timeline 😆
Wait, I see it as it’s still our characters but with a new perspective of the future. Up to the point that trunks arrives they are our characters. From trunks forward they are still the same characters but with new information and purpose. So, while the arrival of trunks/cell make a new time line they characters we know and love are still the same. It’s not like this goku had a mustache and curly hair. In a weird way, the OG timeline characters end up being characters we never knew from trunks arrival forward.
Basically what already happened cannot be undone unless by divine intervention(zeno super dragonballs, grand priest, angels). So even though goku was saved in the present time the future goku is already dead because time travel in the dbz universe is linear or you cant go back. All time travel does in this universe is create another timeline or universe.
I wouldn't phrase it as a "switch". We're just following the narrative of the character from the core/prime root of DB and first couple DBZ sagas through to a branch-off. But, totally. These aren't the Prime Timeline versions. DBZ has some of the most solid grasps of multi timeline productions and gets to do some info-dump temporal mechanics. There definitely are some unseen chapters and branches. A tree diagram would go a long way in presenting these complex concepts to the common person.❤
It wouldn't be accurate to say it isn't the prime timeline. Why? Prime just means the main one, the one we follow. Here's some examples In DC there's two main earths ill use for this. Let's call the original and prime earth. Prime earth is the one we follow the most but the original ones aren't. The original superman and batman of earth 1 died while earth 2 are the main ones we follow with similar origins up to a point but different lives after. The same applies to dragonball. Also it's likely GT is one of the split timelines similar to an earth 3.
@@brendanmuller7301 Yeps. The term prime is used a bit differently per person. Generally as primary to narrative. I use it when referring to the root or original timeline that has no influences from future visitors. (Since there is no future yet to have visitors from) Yeah, if you go far enough back in DBZ, GT, and Super, they all branched-off from the trunk of the tree (DragonBall). We could even put Kai, the majority of the DBZ movies, and Heroes content as other branches. (I really need to make my maps. 😆)
There's a possible flaw with that, the thing is is that Cell didn't actually necessarily create a new timeline when a lot of people thinks he did. Dragon Ball has shown that just going back in time doesn't automatically create a new timeline you have to create a paradox for that to happen so him just sleeping underground 4 years didn't necessarily create another timeline. It's possible he didn't actually create a new timeline until age 767 when he changed events by like killing all those people to get stronger and by absorbing 17-18 which is probably different from the timeline that the trunks that he killed in the future witnessed. Cuz that trunks had never seen cell before but he is still gone back to the past and somehow discovered a way to kill 17 and 18 doing that
@Laughingstock Media Funny enough it would actually explain the change in Trunk's Hair Color the Future Trunks with the Purple Hair never made it out and was erased with the rest of the timeline that's really scary if you think about it that basically means Future Trunks has Failed more Timelines then we have ever thought of to begin with!?
Hell I would argue that everything we've seen from the beginning of dragon Ball to the end of Z is the alternate timeline and the original timeline is the timeline that trunks is killed by cell.
5:14 In this page of the manga Cell says "We could've added Trunks' cells to the line, but we had enough saiyans samples", meaning that in Cell's timeline Trunks did travel to the past and defeated Freeza and Cold, and that is a plot hole, because supposedly in the original timeline there was no Trunks defeating Freeza and Cold, thereby, no possibilities of "adding Trunks' cells to the line". Besides, ¿How could you miss the inedit chance of adding the cells of a super saiyan? Because at that point of time, Trunks was the only saiyan showing that capability according to Gero's computer research, it just does not make any sense.
History of Trunks Movie is the Original Timeline because of Goku killing Frieza and King Cold. Using Anime Canon: Cell came from a timeline where Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold so that could not be the original.
if we ordered all the timelines by creation order, the main timeline would be the Sixth 1. Universe 12 Timeline (Created before DB started - Original timeline or altered timeline?) 2. Cell Timeline (No Time Traveling from Earth) 3. Unseen Timeline (Created when Trunks killed Freeza) 4. Goku Black Timeline (Created when Cell appeared) 5. Future Trunks Timeline (Created when Trunks killed Cell) 6. Main Timeline (Created when Zamasu was erased) 7. Double Trunks Timeline (Created at the End of Goku Black Saga)
I don't understand how this is a theory. I like this channel, but I watched this video twice & it seems like there's nothing of substance. Unless I missed something, each timeline should've been identical pre-Trunks saga. Even if Cell had already been there for a year, it had no effects that would've made a difference on panel/screen. It wouldn't matter which timeline we were following originally because they would be identical. What we saw was equally the shared past for all known timelines
What we know, as soon as trunks shows up with the time machine, its an altered timeline, as in the original timeline, trunks would not have shown up in a time machine. But one of these versions of trunks gets killed. What makes sense is that cell came from the original timeline, but theres no saying thats true as well. Maybe i need a pen and paper to figure out
I feel like this is misunderstanding how timelines would work. The 4 timelines are all just different branches of the same timeline. They only separate at those branches like trunks going back in time. Anything before those changes is all one timeline. The reason for that being that going back in time wouldn't change the past, but instead just change the point you go back to and any future points from there. Implying that there are new timelines would imply that the time machine creates a copy of the entire timeline even before the point that it arrives instead of just branching off.
They wouldn't be "duplicates" traveling back in time didn't create a new universe with an identical past, they are the same history they just split into different futures
The only reason we think of the timeline we know as the original is because we were able to witness it. Technically our timeline is the 3rd or 4th timeline. I think trunks or cell is the original timeline.
One thing I didn't get was like if messing with time is a no no, and grand Zeno was shown pruning the "future timeline," why did he choose that timeline? That was the original correct timeline with all the same characters, i'm assuming theres also a Zeno in this timeline. So when the Zeno from the altered timeline comes to the real OG timeline, how come he just obliterates it?
Maybe our timeline that we see the entire time is just our original timeline and we were invaded by what could be considered the base timeline and its different iterations.
![โรงเรียนดัดสันดาน นักเรียนเถื่อน..!! [โรงเรียนไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vRKPeXn4Fl4/mqdefault.jpg)
It would have been insane if Toriyama just showed us a hopeless timeline first and then had Trunks travel back in time to change everything.
Hmm…
damn...
Thats why the trunks special is so worth watching earlier on case you get that info first.
Dragon ball D for doom
Thats to smart for Akira
A much simpler perspective is that timeline 4 is the timeline we've been following ever since the beginning, and we only learned retrospectively that others came before it. Meaning our characters aren't the "originals", but they're our originals...
shouldn’t they all be similar until the point in which trunks arrives which creates the branching point?
or are the timelines parallel and trunks hops between them?
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 the first one, they all are the same but the main timeline changes due to trunks appearing
The timeline doesn't branch until Cell arrives after the Frieza Arc ends, so you're basically watching all of the timelines at once, they don't duplicate the entire story up to that point just branch off.
@@prometheusmodelow8322 What I'm saying is: Basically just imagine it from the perspective of those living in timeline Four. They didn't switch universes after Trunks arrived, they simply lived through one unbroken stream of events that they only found out later was not the original timeline...
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 They were all the same events, but occuring in seperate timelines where they occurred. Like copies of a save file. From the original file, changes can be made on top of what's already there, but they are still seperate files...
BTW, a clue to solving the *"plot hole"* is described earlier in that same chapter in Trunks and Gohan's discussion. Before talking to Gohan, Trunks still doesn't fully understand how time travel works and Gohan's interruption reminds him that going further back would just create another timeline. The "original" Future Trunks wasn't thinking this and never had the talk with Gohan, so he intentionally set the time machine further back to deal with Gero before he could create the Androids.
Interesting…
yeah that could solve it, that part was told by cell so it's his interpretation of what trunks intended to do. who knows? maybe the outcome wasn't that ideal but he did find a way to defeat the androids and wanted a better outcome
After all, we don't actually know WHY that Trunks attempted to return. It was only Cell's speculation - Which I guess just makes him and Piccolo stupid for failing to notice that it made no sense...
@Andrew Ace bc trunks didn't think of why it wouldn't make sense, bro didn't think to deep into timeliness before the talk with Gohan, crazy how a lil kid and a teenager figured it out over a 10 second convo, than a literal demon king and an android built to reach perfection.
@@brugdabidbrug3671 Ya, lmao. It makes me wonder if the whole plot was being written on the fly 😉...
Man this channel is very refreshing. I like the take on trying to explore narrative questions about the series, inconsistencies or if things are written differently than we percieve them as topics. Just to see something new to the content angles here is what I find more interesting.
There are at least five timelines as far as we can tell; three future timelines, one where Trunks deactivates the androids after finding the remote schematics but gets killed by Cell because he wasnt any stronger and one where he destroys them and Cell because he knows of Cell thanks to the other future timeline but which eventually gets wiped by Zamasu and a final one where Trunks goes back to before Zamasu shows up (and never will) but somehow has to live with a duplicate Trunks and Mai, and two present timelines, one that follows the movies into end of Z/GT and one that follows Z into super which can be dumbed down into Beerus waking up early causing that split. Yeah it gets very confusing lol.
But yeah, the "original" timeline was the first Trunks timeline, we are indeed following a new timeline from the androids saga.
Finally someone else gets the whole androids/Cell saga time travel thing the way I do.
I've always thought I was alone in thinking that way.
Some people don't even know about the unseen timeline.
Though I have to wonder which changes were caused by only Trunks traveling back, and which ones Cell ended up changing.
There is something to be said about the chaos theory but mostly I think the changes are just convenient for the story
I’ve always thought about it like this too but no one really paid attention to dbz/kai about the timeline and always say that the trunks we see is the original but I wanna say the first trunks we see is the one that dies sadly and the second trunks is a duplicate and the others after the cell saga are the 3 duplicates
@@sunblae63553 trunks right
All versions of the Z Warriors are the version we watched since the start of OG DB, it's like going back to an earlier save file in a video game and choosing a different story option, it's still the same character.
Makes sense because the first 3 seasons of DBZ was a perfect story that stood on it's own. And then when we start in the 4th season it's a different timeline
This makes me want to go rewatch Qaaman's Trunks' "Secret Mission" theory video. Really good analysis on this, LSM! Really made me think about how to view the story from now on.
Original Timeline Bulma has no-one not even Trunks as Cell murdered him. She doesn't even have the time machine to try and visit another timeline to see her friends again.
I guess she can just build another Time Machine and make more timelines lol
But cell took that time machine so bulma would have happened to make another one which I don't think she would of ha the materials for
@@billy75chook80 it would take a long time to make the fuel and other stuff but she has all the time in the world to make a new one lol
@JsOnMyFeet not if Babadi and dabura showed up which they would have
There's fan manga that deal with this scenario
This theory does make sense for the fact that Cell being there would make it a different timeline from what would have lead to Trunks' timeline. That also means the main timeline is actually Cell's new timeline.
Its crazy to think just what kind of tech Bulma managed to put together in Trunk's time machine.
That thing doesn't travel through time: it travels across multiverses. Trunks is able to create branches in the timeline, that don't connect to his own anymore, and hop between them to "visit".
For example, when he arrived to help fight androids 19 and 20, that future is no longer connected to his own by his own actions fighting Freeza and giving Goku the virus cure. And yet hes able to travel "across" time to reach it.
why did you quote visit and across? That's literally what it does
@@superboygamer9095 because across in the sense of linear time travel is impossible. It's applying a 2D concept to a 1D plane.
It's the closest descriptor of what the machine does, but it's inaccurate to describe it as literally "across".
Yeah. It's incredibly depressing knowing the cute little Goku and friends we grew up with die tragically. And for what? FOR WHAT!? All the sacrifices they made...for nothing. Everyone fucking dies anyway by the Androids, Cell and then Zeno. Nas was right. Life's a bitch and then ya die.
Exactly, it happened to us aswell, we also live in a multiverse, in one future reality A.I won and wiped us all out and all we are experiencing now is a simulation
I would argue that we've never "switched" timelines. We the viewer have just been following the alternate timeline created by Trunks since the start of Dragonball from our perspectives.
I definitely recommend this and Qaaman's video on timelines explanation. Both are very clear.
Qaaman's 5 Cells in 4 timelines video covers this pretty well
Thank you for keep coming up with new DB topics. I love the story and you keep me in the game.
Pretty good vids! Keep it going!
Qaaman did a whole video describing all the timelines and the outcomes of each, of course this was before Super but holy hell it's a lot
I believe the most logical headcannon reason is that they accidently created a cannon where one timeline went to GT and another went to Super. It happened 3 years after Android training where Trunks came back again to fight in the Cell games. That's where the two timelines split for the second time. The first split is Goku dying or not to the Virus, and the second split is Trunks coming back or not and interfering a second time. Trunks had a pretty big part in the story. He helped hard-core develop Vegeta during this time. The 2nd timeline we don't see is what happens after Trunks doesn't return.
*If they accepted this idea or something similar as cannon, it would be a way to make both shows cannon so they don't lose out on that sweet sweet SSJ4 merch.
GT was never not canon. It's just not the main timeline. Super is. Just like how the movies aren't canon which at least gt us canon to some. How do we know? Cooler leaves hell in GT with other villains 😊😊
The time split derives from the Bardock storyline. I the original timeline, goku is a baby, in super's goku is a toddler
I've pondered this theory myself for a long time.the Android/cell saga left an impact on me unlike any of the others in the franchise and its not even my favorite saga
i didnt know i've been watching The History of Trunks all my life since i was 7 lol i had no idea i've been following the HOT timeline instead of the actual series ever since the begnning of Saiyan Saga 😂
Cell didn't travel back that far. He travelled back a year before Frieza arrived on Earth, which is still after Namek blew up.
There is roughly a year, to a year and half between Goku defeating Frieza, and Frieza arriving on Earth.
One thing to note that makes way more sense to me. Originally it’s depicted as if Trunks was coming back to them before the 3 years was up but I think that was just an overlooked inconsistency or you could count what comes after as the inconsistency. But Cell doesn’t show up to Trunks until some time after he defeats the Androids after returning from the main timeline. It makes more sense to me that originally that’s where Trunks would have died and that he originally helped in the unseen timeline. Because I don’t see how Cell arriving before Trunks changes anything about how Cell in his timeline would show up
It's all relative.
Ever since the first time I saw DragonBall Z, I never thought that Bulma actually built a time traveling ship, at least not in the traditional sense of a time ship. I've always thought that she actually built a multiunversal travel ship. Every time someone uses it, they're actually jumping into an alternate universe, albeit to any time period of that particular universe. Then Super came along and demonstrated even more evidence of this. The time ship was able to travel numerous times without ever having created new time rings.
Wow this is pretty interesting! Never thought if it that way: Cell being the only guy from the OG timeline...but it does make sense..!
I think it's the same timeline. What we saw that happened in the Cell arc was actually the other variants coming into one single timeline on nme.
Actually, the Cell that we see in the show and manga fighting Gohan is also a duplicate. He is a duplicate of the Cell that created the timeline of the Trunks we see.
There's the original Cell, who traveled back and created Trunks' timeline, and the duplicate of the original Cell, who was created because of Trunks traveling back into a past in which Cell was already present.
There's also the Cell born in Trunks' timeline who appears after Trunks defeated the androids and Trunks easily killed him.
The original Cell is actually MIA, I'm not sure what happened to him and why he never attacked in Trunks' timeline, especially when the androids were around so long.
(My theory is that he was starved of the energy from citizens and the Z fighters thanks to 17's and 18's killing spree) (He may have even been beaten by 17 and 18 before he could amass enough energy to defend himself)
This is the best theory. It makes everything make sense to me, and I really like how to tie in Super and GT. Crazy stuff yo.
My mind was blown. I never thought about cell being last person from the original timeline. Good shit
So my theory is that, that's why future Goku acts like that because just simply one change can create a different future so that's why super happened instead of the end of Z
wait what if trunks timeline was actually the movie timelines like Dead Zone Tree of Might Lord Slug all the way up to Meta Cooler where no time traveler showed up? then the characters we knew were not duplicates at all
The movie timeline or at least some of them are actually GTs timeline it has multiple references to wrath of the dragon and cooler is seen escaping hell
The Trunks from the unseen timeline always make the story confusing.
He's not from the unseen timeline, he's from the original
One of your best vids my man. Keep up the great work!!!
It’s like your videos have improved immensely. You must have spent a day in the room of spirit/time.
Ah multiverse theory is a bitch-tfs cell
Doesn't it make more sense if the first split happens with Trunks? Because for Cell to time travel Trunks has to make both trips first, because that's how Cell knew about the time machine.
As for jumping to another timeline, I do believe that when Blooma calls the plane, we jump to the new present timeline created by Cell.
Qaaman gave me the Sauce back in 2015 we Gucci!
Love the content and another timeline video my guy!!
The last villain goku defeats in the original timeline is either king cold or cooler. He died of a heart virus, and the universe was eventually doomed because of Zamasu.
I've been under the impression that the timeline we are in in z is the alternate one. Trunks comes back in time and its not his world its this one, the timeline split at that moment and somehow trunkss original timeline is parallel to this new one and can be reached back and forth. All of dragon ball original series must take place in the second timeline as well
I’ve always had a thought ever since dbs came out, that cell was never at his full power and could easily copy Goku’s power now the same same way he did back then. 🤔
In the early 2000s my head cannon was that Trunks's time-line was the original.
I want to see someone (hopefully as dragonball smart as you) do a FULL timeline story telling
so saying everything sequentially from each timeline and when they were created etc
Quamman did it
@@KilluaGon I've been watching Quamman's video on this subject for literally a decade and I still don't fully understand it. But it is the best attempt to explain this subject.
Watch Plague of gripes video on it. Timeline assholes I believe he originally called it. There is an audio version and a visual version. Try to find the visual version. Though be prepared for ranting because he tries to explain why it doesnt make sense. It's a really good video though imo
@@tjbanville its pretty simple once you keep watching over and over again. Essentially there are 4 timelines the OG, Future Trunks, Main and Unseen timeline. The OG timeline is the first timeline with no time travelers, this is the timeline cell came from. The trunks that came from the OG timeline went to an unseen timeline we didn't see. Now when cell went back he created 2 timelines the main timeline and trunks timeline.
I've thought about doing it myself, and I've ran over the timeline in my head - including the movies in the future, OG, and unseen timelines. I'll try to give a 'brief' summary of what I think would happen. Spoiler alert, they play out similarly to the main timeline.
The future, OG and unseen timelines would start the same, the difference from the main timeline being that Cell didn't go back in time, so a few animals would be spared, and some wouldn't have a time machine as their home. Let's continue.
Next would split off with the future and OG timelines. Frieza and Cold would invade and order their soldiers to kill everyone on Earth. The Z-Fighters would step in and stop the soldiers before they caused much harm, and Vegeta (With maybe Piccolo) would eventually go to face Frieza. They'd do better than their performance on Namek since they've been training, but Frieza would dominate the fight.
Goku would IT to Earth before things got too serious, go SSJ, and with the help of Vegeta, would pretty easily kill Frieza for good. They'd have King Cold to deal with next, and depending on if he could transform or not, I reckon the scenario would go differently. Either:
Cold can't transform. Goku and Vegeta would take him on, and beat him with only a little difficulty. Or
Cold can transform. He'd only go to his third form, and it'd need all of the Z-fighters to take him on, as he'd outmatch Goku on his own. The group kill him, and celebrate Goku's return.
The next 2 years go peacefully, Gohan would love spending his time with his dad (Going on camping trips and hosting BBQs) and he'd devote more time to study. Goku would still get back to training eventually and spar with Piccolo, and Vegeta would tear his hair out trying to surpass him and unlock the SSJ form himself.
Goku would get sick with the heart virus, everyone would panic and give him Senzu beans which wouldn't work. He'd die, his friends would be sad and use the Dragon Balls to revive him, but they wouldn't work either. Infuriated by being handed title of #1, Vegeta would obtain SSJ in a fit of rage sometime later.
Half a year later, West City would be attacked by Androids 19 and 20. The Z-Fighters would investigate, only to get blind sighted by the Androids (Likely Yamcha would get butchered). Piccolo would be the one to fight 19, putting up a decent fight against him but eventually getting overpowered after firing off a Masenko. Vegeta would intervene before the others get a chance to, and due to his training & unlocking SSJ, he'd destroy 19 just like in the main timeline.
Android 20 would retreat across the ocean to the islands where his lab is, but get caught by the Z-Fighters. He'd fight Piccolo who wants to make up for his performance against 19, and would get pushed back by the Namekian.
Gero would fire off a huge blast and escape with the smoke, getting back to his lab and awakening 17/18. They'd kill Gero, and soon seek out the Z-Warriors. They'd try to explain that Goku's dead, but they wouldn't have it, engaging them in a large scale battle, with Vegeta fighting 18 and the others fighting 17. The warriors would lay defeated, with the Androids going off to look for Goku, never discovering 16 as the lab wasn't destroyed.
Vegeta would stand around for a few days wondering how to get past SSJ, soon getting back to training. Piccolo would ask Kami if they could fuse, but he'd say no, as the androids were no more than petty criminals for now and not worth the trouble.
Over the next few weeks, the Androids would get impatient looking for Goku, and start killing people and blasting buildings to lure him out. The Z-Fighters would confront them again, this time using their special techniques (Like the Tri-beam and SPC). They'd do much better against the Androids this time around, so the twins would see them as a potential threat, and would wipe them out before they could regroup and get stronger. Gohan, Bulma and Trunks are the only survivors from the group, failing to use the Dragon Balls as the Pilaf gang wished to become younger. Maybe Gohan goes SSJ shortly after that?
Over the next few years, Chichi would forbid Gohan from facing the Androids, though he would still train daily to one day stand up against the Androids, eventually taking in Trunks and training with him.
As this happened, Babidi's spaceship would reach Earth, and the evil wizard would drain people's energy, slowly gathering enough to revive Buu. Maybe Pui Pui would meet the Androids, but wouldn't stand a chance against them. Though he'd still be more fun to fight than the humans, so they'd let him escape.
The History of Trunks would take place, with Gohan fighting the Androids a few times, losing his arm and then dying. Trunks would try to avenge his death years later, but would still lose. He'd go into the past for a few hours, return to the future for about 4 months, evading the Androids, and then going back into the past. This would split off the OG and Future timeline.
In the Future timeline, Trunks goes back to the future as a buff boi, and destroys 17/18. 3 years later he kills Cell, and then goes back to the past AGAIN to tell the Z-fighters he'd won, returning to the future soon after.
After even more time passes, Trunks gets approached by the Supreme Kais and is warned about Babidi/Buu. He trains with them for a while on the Sacred Kai world, before going back to Earth and dealing with Babidi's forces. He'd take out Pui Pui and Yakon easily, though Dabura would be too strong for him. After he kills Kabito and the Supreme Kai, Trunks would go SSJ2, killing both Dabura and Babidi with ease, and preventing Buu from resurrecting. Then Super happens, which I won't go into.
In the OG timeline, Trunks goes back to the future a bit stronger than when he left. He'd go to Gero's lab to get 17/18's blueprints, and give them to Bulma who'd use them to create a remote control to shut the Androids down. Trunks hunts the Androids down and uses the control on them, either shutting them both down, or shutting one of them down and then facing the other in 1v1 combat, barely destroying them with brute force.
3 years later he tries to go back in time, but is blind sighted by Cell. He'd face him as a SSJ, but would still get killed by him. Though he'd leave Cell brutally injured. Cell would then kill/absorb Bulma, revert into his larval state, climb into the time machine, and go back into the past, in the Unseen timeline.
As for the remainder of the OG timeline, Babidi and Dabura would eventually get enough energy to revive Buu. But by that point, Goku Black would've spotted them, taking Babidi, Pui Pui, Yakon and Dabura out with minimal effort, and would barely manage to destroy Fat Buu. He'd then go on to enact the Zero Mortals plan, which would probably end in a scuffle between him and Moro.
I'll put the Unseen timeline in another comment as this one's become too long already.
It's why I actually sometimes don't like calling the unseen timeline "unseen", because excluding Cell (remember they didn't know about him until bulma found out about the time machine), the events were the exact same as main timeline up until Bulma showing Trunks the Original time travel machine.
We did see the unseen timeline, only part that was unseen was Bulma creating the remote and the androids being defeated using it.
I would love to see Trunks say to Frieza and Cold: "this is the revenge of King Vegeta"
Why the hell would he care about king vegeta? Vegeta didn’t even care about Vegeta, he was a loser.
I mean, yes and no. The timeline split a few times. The characters are less duplications and more of just a different life the character could live. They're the same people in different scenarios. Sure, time travel creates new timelines, but you can think of that more like our characters are on a mine cart ride with a splitting path and they tested out each path. We're seeing what happened when they went down the path that had a Trunks and Cell from other paths cross over. So we're still following the same characters, we're just seeing only one of their outcomes. Though, you could argue that we missed a lot of their story because we didn't see their full other timeline variants from Trunks's History and Cell's History. A, The History of Cell, special would be fun to watch
All cells timeline is is a unaltered outcome for Trunks where he used a shut down device to defeat the Androids, he never train in the past with Vegeta so he was far weaker than the future Trunks we know, leaving him powerless to stop cell leading to cell strangling him and stealing the Time Machine, but the same events from the history trunks also happened in Cells timeline, the timelines don't diverge until Trunks returns back from his second trip to the past.
@@brandonnelson-ey5mt Trunks was using the time machine to go back to tell Goku and friends that he defeated the Androids, so I'm pretty sure it's implied he did train with Vegeta, since they needed the time chamber to defeat the androids in the past anyways (I'm curious if Piccolo fused with Kami in that timeline that future future Trunks went to), and Cell just caught him off guard by suppressing his power level. That's why Trunks knows Cell's there when he's getting ready for his return trip and it catches Cell off guard because he was suppressing his power level in the timeline with the future Trunks we know too, waiting to also ambush him
@@Chronoflation what I'm telling you is, the Trunks that cell killed went to a different past similar to the main timeline we know only difference is cell was not Present in that timeline as the gang never discovered that other time machine like we see in our timeline, so In conclusion There was no need for them to train in the hyperbolic chamber, more than likely the Bulma in that timeline created in an emergency shut down device and that's how Trunks was able to beat the Androids in the unseen timeline and his original timeline.
@@brandonnelson-ey5mt I get why you're saying that, but I disagree they'd use the shutdown device. Goku decided to go in the time chamber regardless of Cell because they weren't strong enough for the Androids, and he and Vegeta would never just accept that they're weaker than an enemy and have to use some one button device to kill them. I would put money on them still training in the time chamber, though Goku may not have pushed himself so far without Cell, much less Gohan. No Super Saiyan 2 for sure. But everything else still happening I definitely believe. Maybe Goku would go in the time chamber with Vegeta, since there wouldn't be the bigger threat of Cell, but knowing that Trunks needs to take out the Androids in his time period, I doubt Goku would make any different strategy. The real question is whether or not Kami would fuse with Piccolo and if Piccolo would survive his fight with 17, cause, even if he won, 18 or a possible 16 in that timeline would probably wipe out a tired Piccolo.
Fun food for thought, since Bulma needed that extra day anyways to make the power off button anyhow, and if she gave it to Krillin again, then we both know how that goes
@@Chronoflation who knows honestly, Maybe Android 16 was more the threat in that timeline more so than 17 and 18, once Goku recovers from the virus, Who to say 16 didn't go berserk and wipe everybody out and Trunks managed to escape in his time machine just in time and made it back to his own time zone. Maybe that's why he was gonna go back a year earlier than he originally did to kill Dr Gero and destroy the Androids while they were in their pods and avoid the whole thing, but cell creeps up on him and takes him out sadly.
I believe the timeline we're presented with from the very start is the alternate timeline. Which is then made the original timeline from our perspective.
I wouldn't necessarily saw WE switched. The original timeline Trunks is from exists as a narrative tool. But the timeline we folllow is one that includes the changes of all the timeline (every new time travel instance making a new future will hold prior time travel in "its" canonical past). I. E. the characters in the Cell Saga went through 100% of the events of the Red Ribbon arc (etc)
i like your timeline videos man
Goku dying in future Trunks timeline just felt different than him dying in the past
I'd always figured Cell appearing in the time machine was a butterfly effect. So was 16 being activated.
I still don't know how Cell killed the Trunks who killed the androids. As to beat them, Trunks had to be close to SSJ Grade 2 to beat them, which is stronger than Cell.
That version of Trunks most likely did not go through the hyperbolic Time chamber unlike the future trunks we know. He used the remote to kill the androids which brought peace to his world but since he wasn't strong enough like the other future trunks (I don't know if Xeno trunks should be included but he is a future trunks variant) and, he was killed.
@@tenkyu778 So he went and talked with Bulma without Vegeta or Goku knowing? Especially Vegeta since he lives there. "in-universe, it doesn't make sense" In actuality, it is simply bad writing.
@@nathanlamont9920 wouldn't say its bad writing, it was written so cell could be in the saga
@@schemar17 that’s what make it bad. Cell was a deus ex machina character
If we go off what's said in some extended dragonball series GT is one of the timelines created by trunks when he traveled back in time. It also explains the movies as well, at least a few like cooler onwards. Especially since cooler exists in the GT timeline. We see him leave hell. It would also explain the discrepancies between the original dbz story, super, and gt. They're just slightly different versions from eachother with GT being either the second or third timeline and the one we've been following from cell saga to super being the 4th one. With its main difference being beerus not waking. Now, we also know that there's likely different versions of trunks that branch off from the original trunks. Prime trunks aka timeline 4 trunks, the one that died against cell, GT trunks, likely super's future trunks and the one that died. It's very likely that Super's future trunks is the one we saw at the end, the one who trained with vegeta, died to cell, killed the androids and then cell. What about time patroll trunks from the games? Is that a different trunks? Yes. If I would guess he's the Z movies trunks.
Either way we know for a fact GT is a seperate timeline and is still "Canon" it's just not the main timeline.
In the meantime, lets look into goku's head.
Goku: I want to fight the grand priest.
Everyone: No goku
Goku: You have to say it three times otherwise I'm going.
Everyone: Goku no fighting, goku no fighting, goku no...where did he go.
Whis: He went to fight Grand Priest.
Everyone: NO!!!!!
Goku: *Infront of Grand Priest* Hey it's me Goku.
Grand Priest: Ha just like the thing.
Goku: Exactly like the thing, what thing again?
Damn it all makes sense now from the little kid to the namkek arc there all gone.
Technically the story we've been following is the same one we've been following from the jump, we woke up one day and trunks was there taking out frieza, and explaining things, yes the original end point of the characters and fate was dying from the androids, but we never saw or witnessed it which means thats not our characters timeline, look at it like this(as if we are characters in the show) our timeline is everything we actually experienced, even if it was altered from and alternate timeline, so yes the true ending and fate of the characters weve been following is to die by the androids, but in our timeline trunks came and warned us, we arent the first original time line just by trunks coming back changes that, but the timeline we're following the whole time is the alternate, im tryna say everything we whatch is our main story and everything we didn't see is the original, the original timeline is our alternate timeline and the alternate timeline, were everything works out, is OUR main timeline, because thats OUR "reality" trunks came to our characters to warn them, they are the ones we've been following the whole time, our characters are just the timeline where everything works out, even if we aren't the originals everything is original to us, we never followed the original characters even if they were the original timeline we've only followed the alternate we are the alternates but weve always followed the alternate timeline, we only hear about the originals who are actually just alternates to us, if i tell you that i come from the future and u die there, to you everything i say almost doesn't matter because you're chilling nothing has happened for you yet and you only know of thing up till where i changed things which is me telling you of my future, my future may be the original but to you its the alternate, because we only been following the alternate. THE ALTERNATE TIMELINE IS THE VIEWER'S MAIN TIMELINE, THE ORIGINAL TIME LINE IS THE UNSEEN TIMELINE BUT THE ORIGINAL TIMELINE DOESN'T MATTER TO US BECAUSE THATS NOT OUR EXPERIENCE, WE ONLY HEAR ABOUT IT, ITS ALTERNATE TO US, OR you can say trunks coming back IS part of our timeline, our timeline is the same as the original up until that point our timeline has different events because trunks decided to change them but all we know is trunks changing them because that happens seamlessly for us because that happens in our timeline, it just happens as part of our story, because we've always been following the alternate which is our main. We never followed the main timeline which is OUR alternate😢
Think of it also like this, the broly movie for z happens in an alternate timeline some were in between Android saga and the cell games, the movies are like if trunks took us to an alternate time line and let us watch, those are our first experiences seeing these things, the show is everything we've seen from the beginning so that's our main story, but we see the original timeline in flash backs, never part of our main story, the original time line for us is just as alternate as any alternate timeline movie from the dbz movies, broly from super is the first time goku and vegeta use the fusion dance and meet Broly in OUR main timeline, but(if we go by my previous statement) trunks has showed us an alternate timeline where Broly and paragas showed up way earlier in z . If I'm not mistaken the history of trunks movie(is showing what happened to the original timeline) the movies in z are us looking into alternate realities.
What if the missing time that actually connect the plot holes is the anime time line is it’s either original or main time the deviation could be possible most would say it’s one missing timeline but i think it’s 2 missing timelines. Which would be the anime timeline and the movies timeline 🤷🏿♂️
This explains why Yamacha is Gohans dad
Interesting...
So Cell was the summation of the original timeline and the new main timeline worked together to defeat him.
Always thought about this. But i wouldnt say it diminished anything. Even if this " new " goku isnt the exact one we were with from the beginning its still him. He went through the exact same thing until the time alterations. Awesome video man.
just because it's not the original timeline doesn't make them duplicates, or different from the characters we followed before the split. in my opinion, instances of the same characters from any timeline are the same characters we had been following. the only way you could say a switch occurred is if we followed events along one branch, and then the plot switched to another branch; what you're proposing is that the events along one branch happened offscreen to give rise to the branch we follow, in which there is a continuous path all of our characters follow through time with which to be considered themselves.
I think iur time line, the “main” time line, is the one that matters, like say there’s 4 time lines, 3 of them revolve around the one in the center, the one in the center is the main one, and the others are used to make sure the one in the center has its perfect outcome. So the 3 extra ones go bad, for trunks to become the bot from the future, and come to the main TL and help.
It's a really fun theory and something I thought about before, but I just came to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter all that much, because it's all about perspective.
Since both timelines were the same up until Trunks showed up to defeat Freeza, what changes knowing that we were looking at the Original timeline up until that point anyway?
There’s basically 3 versions of time travel in fiction:
1. The future can be changed. Things done in the past will undo the future. This model is used in the Back to the Future movies and the Terminator franchise.
2. Changing the past creates a new timeline/parallel universe, and doesn’t affect the future that the time traveller came from. This is used in Dragon Ball, and the MCU.
3. The timeline is fixed. Anything that the time traveller does was always meant to happen. Often efforts to change the timeline end up being what causes it.
Dragon ball timelines prepared us all well for the MCU Multiverse. Seemed like it confused a lot of people, but us dragon ball fans, we knew all about it. Lol
ok i love this video i always thought this. NOW i wanna see a full timeline dragon ball map /iceburg video
But in all seriousness, I just take it as we have been following this timeline from the beginning. There could be countless alternate timelines due to time travels we don't know about
Those theory is how I assumed it was. The dark future of trunk tineline where cell eventually kills him is the original/real timeline and the "main tineline" is thr happy Disney Channel version
The way I see it: Dead Trunks and grown Cell are from timeline A, future Trunks is from timeline B, everyone else is and always has been from timeline C which is the only one we have ever seen (disregarding specials and flashbacks.) Grown Cell and future Trunks travel to timeline C due to problems in their native timeline. Future Trunks returns to timeline B stronger and wiser. Timeline C was also timeline A & B.
What about the timeline the future trunks that cell killed went to, that would be timeline b, the trunks we got in the story as timeline c and the one we follow to the buu saga as timeline d
Once I revert into an egg I must bury myself underground for 3 years there my form matures
Another laughingstock banger
And don't forget the timeline where Goku takes Gohan to meet Bulma Master roshi and Krillin for the first time and gets kidnapped by Gaelic Juniors henchmen instead of Raditz and all the other Dragonball movies up until Battle of Gods and the garlic jr. Saga of the DBZ anime taking place in this timeline where Goku survived and killed Frieza went home with everyone else but still went into outer space at some point to do some sort of training cuz he wasn't around in the garlic jr. Saga never got sick of the Heart virus and defeated Cooler, Lord Slug, three more Androids that did not exist in the original timeline as well as the Legendary Super Saiyan Broly then he would die at some point between the Broly movie and Bojack movie helping his kids beyond the grave up until the Wrath of the Dragon movie Goku will somehow come back to a life through unexplained ways between Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon movies then Trunks will get his iconic sword from Tapion after Bulma building a time machine for Tapion so he can use this time machine to save his little brother from ever being killed by Hirudegarn and then create another timeline 😆
I explained time travel of endgame to my wife by dbz time travel . It’s basically alternate time lines for both
Original, duplicate, it's a matter of perspective
Wait, I see it as it’s still our characters but with a new perspective of the future. Up to the point that trunks arrives they are our characters. From trunks forward they are still the same characters but with new information and purpose.
So, while the arrival of trunks/cell make a new time line they characters we know and love are still the same. It’s not like this goku had a mustache and curly hair.
In a weird way, the OG timeline characters end up being characters we never knew from trunks arrival forward.
Basically what already happened cannot be undone unless by divine intervention(zeno super dragonballs, grand priest, angels). So even though goku was saved in the present time the future goku is already dead because time travel in the dbz universe is linear or you cant go back. All time travel does in this universe is create another timeline or universe.
I wouldn't phrase it as a "switch".
We're just following the narrative of the character from the core/prime root of DB and first couple DBZ sagas through to a branch-off.
But, totally. These aren't the Prime Timeline versions.
DBZ has some of the most solid grasps of multi timeline productions and gets to do some info-dump temporal mechanics.
There definitely are some unseen chapters and branches.
A tree diagram would go a long way in presenting these complex concepts to the common person.❤
It wouldn't be accurate to say it isn't the prime timeline. Why? Prime just means the main one, the one we follow. Here's some examples
In DC there's two main earths ill use for this. Let's call the original and prime earth. Prime earth is the one we follow the most but the original ones aren't. The original superman and batman of earth 1 died while earth 2 are the main ones we follow with similar origins up to a point but different lives after. The same applies to dragonball. Also it's likely GT is one of the split timelines similar to an earth 3.
@@brendanmuller7301
Yeps.
The term prime is used a bit differently per person.
Generally as primary to narrative.
I use it when referring to the root or original timeline that has no influences from future visitors. (Since there is no future yet to have visitors from)
Yeah, if you go far enough back in DBZ, GT, and Super, they all branched-off from the trunk of the tree (DragonBall).
We could even put Kai, the majority of the DBZ movies, and Heroes content as other branches.
(I really need to make my maps. 😆)
with this headcanon it makes ssj4 canon and that it's just in another timeline which i'm happy about
There's a possible flaw with that, the thing is is that Cell didn't actually necessarily create a new timeline when a lot of people thinks he did. Dragon Ball has shown that just going back in time doesn't automatically create a new timeline you have to create a paradox for that to happen so him just sleeping underground 4 years didn't necessarily create another timeline. It's possible he didn't actually create a new timeline until age 767 when he changed events by like killing all those people to get stronger and by absorbing 17-18 which is probably different from the timeline that the trunks that he killed in the future witnessed. Cuz that trunks had never seen cell before but he is still gone back to the past and somehow discovered a way to kill 17 and 18 doing that
I miss Harold 😢
@Laughingstock Media Funny enough it would actually explain the change in Trunk's Hair Color the Future Trunks with the Purple Hair never made it out and was erased with the rest of the timeline that's really scary if you think about it that basically means Future Trunks has Failed more Timelines then we have ever thought of to begin with!?
It actually makes sense that exists duplicates of the og characters, because that's how the existence of Black Goku can be answered
Hell I would argue that everything we've seen from the beginning of dragon Ball to the end of Z is the alternate timeline and the original timeline is the timeline that trunks is killed by cell.
We basically live in a multiverse, we are also variets of other timelines.
5:14 In this page of the manga Cell says "We could've added Trunks' cells to the line, but we had enough saiyans samples", meaning that in Cell's timeline Trunks did travel to the past and defeated Freeza and Cold, and that is a plot hole, because supposedly in the original timeline there was no Trunks defeating Freeza and Cold, thereby, no possibilities of "adding Trunks' cells to the line". Besides, ¿How could you miss the inedit chance of adding the cells of a super saiyan? Because at that point of time, Trunks was the only saiyan showing that capability according to Gero's computer research, it just does not make any sense.
yes everything we saw before the trunks saga is future trunks timeline
Time travel makes my head hurt
History of Trunks Movie is the Original Timeline because of Goku killing Frieza and King Cold. Using Anime Canon: Cell came from a timeline where Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold so that could not be the original.
if we ordered all the timelines by creation order, the main timeline would be the Sixth
1. Universe 12 Timeline (Created before DB started - Original timeline or altered timeline?)
2. Cell Timeline (No Time Traveling from Earth)
3. Unseen Timeline (Created when Trunks killed Freeza)
4. Goku Black Timeline (Created when Cell appeared)
5. Future Trunks Timeline (Created when Trunks killed Cell)
6. Main Timeline (Created when Zamasu was erased)
7. Double Trunks Timeline (Created at the End of Goku Black Saga)
I don't understand how this is a theory. I like this channel, but I watched this video twice & it seems like there's nothing of substance. Unless I missed something, each timeline should've been identical pre-Trunks saga. Even if Cell had already been there for a year, it had no effects that would've made a difference on panel/screen. It wouldn't matter which timeline we were following originally because they would be identical. What we saw was equally the shared past for all known timelines
What we know, as soon as trunks shows up with the time machine, its an altered timeline, as in the original timeline, trunks would not have shown up in a time machine. But one of these versions of trunks gets killed. What makes sense is that cell came from the original timeline, but theres no saying thats true as well. Maybe i need a pen and paper to figure out
Then that means the moment trucks left he will never get to go back to his “actual” time line
I feel like this is misunderstanding how timelines would work. The 4 timelines are all just different branches of the same timeline. They only separate at those branches like trunks going back in time. Anything before those changes is all one timeline. The reason for that being that going back in time wouldn't change the past, but instead just change the point you go back to and any future points from there. Implying that there are new timelines would imply that the time machine creates a copy of the entire timeline even before the point that it arrives instead of just branching off.
I like this theory and never thought of it myself
They wouldn't be "duplicates" traveling back in time didn't create a new universe with an identical past, they are the same history they just split into different futures
I wouldn't say the original characters were erased by Zeno, because they would be from Cell's timeline, not Trunks's.
The only reason we think of the timeline we know as the original is because we were able to witness it. Technically our timeline is the 3rd or 4th timeline. I think trunks or cell is the original timeline.
I, too, have that GBA YuYu Hakusho poster from Nintendo Power. I don't think I've ever seen another one.
It's awesome. I also have the Twilight Princess poster from Nintendo Power on my back wall in between the GTAV and Windwaker posters.
We’ve been following the same timeline the entire series.
One thing I didn't get was like if messing with time is a no no, and grand Zeno was shown pruning the "future timeline," why did he choose that timeline? That was the original correct timeline with all the same characters, i'm assuming theres also a Zeno in this timeline. So when the Zeno from the altered timeline comes to the real OG timeline, how come he just obliterates it?
Maybe our timeline that we see the entire time is just our original timeline and we were invaded by what could be considered the base timeline and its different iterations.
I think (Z bardock) getting blast to the past fighting Lord Chill Switched the timeline from Z to Super.