Every person I know who bought an ink printer did so just because of a low entry price. They can't justify spending 160 dollars on a laser printer when there is a 70-dollar ink one that they think will fulfill their needs. They don't know about scams that companies run, and differences between ink vs laser printers in general
I like my espon ecotank printer... The only catch is running a bot to color print 2-3 times a week for the naysayers saying THE INK WILL DRY AND CLOG crowds ... it's as simple as going into task scheduler mspaint /p C:\Users\username\Desktop\1.gif Change the path to the file and program to the real file location.
Volume is far better on laser and it's pretty true thaat home users don't print as much as they thought they would. My primter is used solely to print monochrome images of portraits I want to sketch.
So far I can see the ink tank ones as a happy compromise. They still can get stuck nozzles and such like cartridge ones, but the price of the ink itself, and the (so far) impossible DRMing of the liquid you stick on it's tank, allows you to just not care about how much you'll need to pour away on a few cycles of nozzle cleaning or purging. Have so far (let's not jinx it...) been happy with our Canon ink tank one, the bottles that came with it are yet to require refilling, since it came out of the box with bottles enough for a full charge. At work of course we got 2 lasers, tho the color Brother LED one (yep, technically not laser, but same printing principle) produces quite meh color results even with it's original toner, let alone the cheapest crap we can find at the lowest price (near unusable prints...), but hey, it DOES work and doesn't complain about it, if needed we could just get not crap toner and fix that.
Kind of like whenever a politician says "the American people", 99% of the time you can bet your ass they are saying whatever follows has 0% to do with what the American people want or need.
> restrict your ability to freely make choices More generally - just restrict your freedom. Real Canadian Superstore relatively recently instructed its security to ask leaving customers for a receipt for their purchase. They have never seen / never will see mine, but the pigs lie to your face "this is for your security". And before you decide to defend the poor grocery security guys working virtually for food just to survive, think that while they are required by the employer to ask for a receipt (they don't have the right to demand it, but naturally, anybody may ask anybody else for anything), they are not required to tell you this lie. Yet, they do, and that's their choice. And the largest abuser of this phrase has always been, is, and will always be the government pigs.
Id say ultimately it depends upon the context. A parent getting their child a cellphone for their security is one thing. When a government agent or a CEO says it, its always a lie.
When HP was founded, it was run by engineers. That is how they got their reputation. Then they were taken over by professional managers whose only concern is to sell the cheapest possible product for the highest possible price. That is how they lost their reputation.
sort of.... when hp was founded it was run by engineers... over time the engineers were replaced by lawyers and accountants... it's how almost all the original tech companies evolved and lost their way..
I think you mean engineers rather than managers in that first sentence. My main experience has been with their calculators (HP41CV to HP42S), and they were very nice to use, and I have Thomas Okken's fine emulation, Free42, on my phone, tablet, and workstations. I suspect these were good because they were designed by engineers for engineers. The HP35S wasn't anywhere near the quality, and I'll likely sell it on eBay. My SOHO laser printers (both HP) have worked reasonably well, but from the demo pages I saw when I was seeking a replacement for my monochrome printer (LJ1320), I think I will need to seek a different vendor with a good PostScript implementation (emulated or not).
This is so true and so sad. I was an engineer with HP long ago and remember the great pride when HP Labs in Palo Alto invented ink jet printing. Back then they went to amazing lengths to engineer top quality products and treated their customers very well. Sigh....
Man, I remember, even when their laptops were regularly failing abominations, I still loved their printers. Heck, I still like their lasers, but man have they plummeted in quality.
They were the premier overall test equipment company for decades. Then they decided to sell off their old test instrument core, to concentrate on the fickled consumer market. HP won't do the right thing if their head is up their ass.
Idk, I bought a ProBook recently and it’s working really well for me, moreover i’ll be able to repair it when it gets old and needs repair. Printers are definitely a no go with this ink bullshit of course.
@@martinrose2668I have a Probook 440 g9 for work and so far it's solid as well. The trashy ones are the ones like "HP 14/15", "Pavilion" and similar budget models. I had a Pavilion and it was a complete lemon.
When toner in my Brother all-in-one will finally run out, I'll buy genuine Brother toner. Not because I'm forced to, but because I've been using their product for years pain free and they deserve a little thanks from me.
I agree, however i bought a brother laser, and bought one(1) toner on ebay, an off brand toner, they sent me 1 (1) box of 20 toners. my grandkids will be dead before this lot runs out.
I bought a Canon laser printer almost 4 years ago and the toner cartridge it came with is still going strong. I don't print often, maybe about 40 pages in a year. But the same print load on an epson ink printer I would be replacing ink cartridges every few months.... Ridiculous how bad a deal that is.
Another great thing to mention about Brother laser printers is that they are more modular than HP lasers. In a Brother printer, the actual toner cartridge with the toner roller is separate from the photo drum so you can replace the toner cartridge without having to replace the drum too (drums last for 30,000 to 40,000 pages) In HP printers everything is one unit and they cannot be replaced separately. I bought a Brother laser from a Goodwill for $5 dollars and 8 years later it is still working just fine.
They're different quality of drums though. The HP ones only last about 10-15% longer than the cartridge. If you've ever used repacked HP laser cartridges, you'll know the rapid decline in quality after about half the toner has been used. And if course, as a support guy, I've often gone out to a Brother or Lexmark printer with "bad" printing, looked at a sample, and ordered a new drum. Same people using HP would just swap the cartridge and be done. There's benefits both ways is all I'm saying.
My laser printer is Brother and I use 3rd party toners, but they do use a DRM chip to try to prevent "unauthorized" toners 👹. I can get around it by moving the chip to the new toner, but they shouldn't be allowed to do this in the 1st place. There should be laws to ban DRM for replacement ink because it's absurd
*I own 16 Epsom Eco-tank printers for our office and we use dirt cheap food color in the unit! The trick is to high-speed blend the food color with a few drops of Flax seed oil to make the ink "bead" on the paper and not bleed. We call this step 'drying the ink'. Cost of Food Color Ink? 50 cents per every 10,000 pages IN COLOR!*
@@Linkman8912 Not really, unless you have a day prepared to mix the inc yourself so that it doesn't make a mess + clean the mess you make while figuring it out.
@@benedictjohannes It's both, if you buy a car you aren't forced to only tank gas at Shell or BP, or buy specific flour because otherwise your bread baking machine won't work. That is what's happening here with HP printers.
@@TheReapersSon Lawyer here... Kinda sorta true and I definitely understand your frustration with class actions. While I am NOT familiar with the class action mentioned in the comment to which you reply, there is a major benefit of class actions that is not about trying to get $$$ in the hands of each consumer... Injunctions. Getting an injunction with a single Plaintiff is something that the defendant company can usually fairly easily avoid by "fixing" the problem for the one person and then that person loses the ability to continue the lawsuit. But where a class is named, the company cannot as easily just deal with one or two people and evade the power of the court to issue injunctions. As I said, I am unaware of the class action being talked about so I do not know whether the lawyers are just trying to line their own pockets with everyone getting a check for a nickel each or whether they are pursuing injunctive relief to force this crap to stop. Hopefully the latter.
True. It seems to be the life cycle of businesses. A small new Business with ingenuity and frugality offers a dynamite new product. People love it and buy more and more. It's the growth through quality stage. Then the market is saturated and that double digit growth in profit slows to 2 or 3%. This adds pressure on the executives to generate more profit. The CEO, who often was the founder, is then booted out and a new CEO is appointed that knows nothing about the business. They then have to show an increase in profit and the quickest way is to cut back in quality, but sell at the same price and to start reducing staff. The new CEO milks it dry and leaves millions of dollars richer with the business making a crappy product and yearly losses. Then you get the following CEO that is supposed to "rejuvenate" the company but is actually there to close up shop cleanly.
"pencil pusher" managers (those that did not grow/level up with the company) are the scourge of good management prime example is the infamous marketing executive that k!lled a beer company... there are many more like it in the wild... so beware
I remember ink prices being so bad that at some point my dad just bought new printers every time the ink needed changing because to buy the ink cartridges it was nearly the same price as the printer
@@TheHansoostBought a cheap Canon Printer/Scanner/Copier for $50 Canadian years ago. Only ever used it for it's scanning capabilities. I just print at work on the rare occasion.
If your Color printer runs low EVEN IF YOU ONLY PRINT IN BLACK-AND-WHITE! U can't Print, with Hp. I Ain't Givin' my Credit Card to Two thousand Companies, Hp, @LouisRossmann Why on Earth the military and specifically the NAVY *Only* carries Piece-of-Crap hp is anybody's guess and someone needs to Tell them! Oh, yeah, it's from the cheaper printers that, Really, they should be giving away for Free** since Wifi and c.c. card is a REQUIREMENT Someone tell the D.O.D. and the military they're Hurting sailors and our veterans by allowing hateful and criminal practices by HP.
The sad thing about HP scraping the bottom of the barrel is that this video is only scraping the surface of their consistent abuse and they've somehow built up a reputation so strong that, as a technician, I routinely have customers *argue* that "Hewlett Packard is one of the best brand names on the market and has been for 20+ years" on a weekly basis.
Its the same in commercial printing from hp. The amount of waste ink after the computer says its empty is crazy. Like, pounds of ink left and it says the pack is empty.
20+ years Brother HL-5150d Laser Printer... Prints on both sides.. double tray.. printed well over 4 box of paper (approx 20,000 papers!)... still going strong...
Add to the list to avoid Samsung printers too . They were aquired by HP a while ago. In my laser printer the toner had a chip, that blocked the printing after a certain number of pages. I aquired a chip ($2) chip from China, and printed close to 1000 more pages with the same toner. I think people buy the HP printers because they are cheap, and they have no idea about the toner/ink issues!
we have one hp Laser printer and I think we have only replaced the toner once (for almost nothing btw) and I don't think it locked us out. Maybe it's illegal in the EU/UK or the toner vendor spoofs them now.
That's sad. I had a Samsung laser for years. You could refill the toner cartridge just by pulling a plastic plug out and pouring it in. After 2 or 3 times it did get a bit iffy maybe and you bought a new toner. They were reasonably priced. And the quality and speed were great.
Can someone explain to me why thousands of people have built their own 3D printers but nowadays we can't even have one open source 2D printer ? We need to put these ink scammers out of business
How about this then: Take a cheap commercially made printer, either inkjet or laser, rip out all the control electronics and replace them with an open-source alternative. Or just reflash the existing controller with open-source firmware if that's possible. Seems like that ought to be doable.
You need far more precision in a "2D" printer. And we can't really source inkjet printing heads. If we could, we would have to develop ink formulas too. Laser is probably out of the question as well. FDM 3D Printers are really simple in comparison. They are glorified glue guns with a couple of stepper motors. The software is more complex, but that's been open sourced. You'll notice that are no open source resin printers either. Or really any other technology. And then, there are patents.
Both of those statements have come to make me cringe. Any time you hear "think of the children", it's usually to justify some absurd censorship that only the most closed-minded puritan would appreciate. We don't need, nor should we be asking any corporation to be anyone's parent. We need real parents to start doing their job and care for their own children.
I own a Brother Laser-Printer (HL-1250) from the 90's, it just keeps printing no problems, year after year after year, it is crazy and you can still buy toners for it. This thing has a parallel port & usb & thanks to a raspberry pi it now has wifi as well :) it is amazing. If it keeps going I will make it to the 30 years milestone. Image that with a hp ink-printer... 😂😂😂
@@trackfresse just be careful of potentially outdated health standards for old-school tech. Keep laser printer areas well ventilated, regardless of year
Same with clothing. My best blazers are vintage Hickey Freeman. The modern market has much to answer for. (The high cost of the low price comes to mind though far more general than just Walmart.)
We got an HP inkjet back in 2011, used it until today. We did buy aftermarket cartridges and they did work, but it often gave a warning. But we started printing alot more for our business and followed your advice and bought your exact printer you have in the video. I trust your advice, I'm sure it's the right printer for us! Also as a farmer who loves John Deere growing up, I won't buy any of their newer stuff anymore. I learned alot from your videos. Keep up the good fight!
I bought a Brother all-in-one laser for $99 ten years ago, and it's still going strong. The quality and cost of ownership are astounding compared to inkjets, and to _anything_ from HP.
I still have mine I bought in 2010. Last year invested in Brother printer with the “tank” ink and haven’t replaced any ink yet. I print many pages per month (bookkeeper and payroll tax preparer). Love Brother printers!
@@lynnhoffmann247 similar... bought my Brother laser printer in 2015. Rarely use it (mostly at tax time). Same toner cartridge. Still prints perfectly even after sitting for months since last use. Just discovered the HP Ink jet subscription nightmare trying to help my 63 year old neighbor. "WTF is this?!" Told him to trash it and get the Brother laser.
Having spent the first 22 years of my working career at HP starting out in 1973 at the age of 19 as a trainee tech repairing the HP-35 electronic slide rule I had a front row seat the HP’s slow at first but steady and accelerating decline. It was truly heart breaking to see such an amazing company get driven into the toilet by bean counting MBAs starting in the late 70’s followed up by maximum profit before quality upper management and a succession of CEOs in the 80’s and 90’s. My last seven years were spent in the medical products division and one time when we had our annual business meeting in San Diego we got a tour of HP’s San Diego Division which manufactured XY plotters, chart recorders and the first few generations of Inkjet printers. They showed us the new Inkjet 300 printer and how it was actually able to print a beautiful image on a taco shell. Gone are the days…
@@TuckFrump-r9h I finally bailed out on April 13th 1995 after 22 years 2 Months and 19 days. I had spent 15 years in the instrumentation group and just over seven years in the medical products group and I could see the writing on the wall and bailed out to the Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe Railway and had a 25.5 year career with the Santa Fe, Union Pacific and BNSF Railways… Unfortunately the rail industry has gone the way of pretty much the rest of the big industries and I’m just glad I was able to start collecting my railroad retirement in April of 2021.
The most egregious component of the HP scam saga: theres no ink the in the cartridges. I saw a video where a guy busted one open, and the sponge which allegedly contained the ink wasnt even wet
Haha, that's practically the plot of the tv series "Lost". Could the Island actually be a HP printer Ink Service while the caracters are trying to escape from it? 😅
"oh wait, you activated the printer. Guess we gotta do a self-clean cycle. Wouldn't want that ink to dry in, right? Just gotta blast about 3% of each cartridge god knows where, should only take half an hour. Would you look at that, one of the cartridge is at 10% now. May as well be empty. Btw that means the bomb timer was now set to tomorrow. You know what would help with that? A new cartridge pack. Only 99.99$"
You don't think they already have that built in? Guess what happens when the little tank the ink goes into every time it cleans the head fills up? Yep, the printer shuts down and is no longer able to print and you can't empty out that ink tank. Every time you turn on your printer it dump ink into the waste tank. Every time it cleans the head mid printing it dump ink into the tank.
There was once the legend that "hp products are good", then it became "If it says HP and it does not print or use RPN, don't buy" now it's Just "don't buy HP", good villain arc there
I love RPN. In high school during the early 80s I won a science fair calculator competition with an HP-32e. Not only did I win, but I corrected 5 of the answers on the test as well.
Same here. Bought an HL1212 in 2016, had to change toner twice so far because I used to use it a lot, and only changed the cylinder once. Should point out, I've moved to different places 3 times with this printer, one of the places I've lived in had a major leak during a storm, and water poured directly OVER the printer for at least an hour. I flipped the thing over and basically a waterfall came out of it, and IT STILL WORKED. Of course that's when the cylinder became permanently dirty and the prints would come out with a few smudges, but I still printed with it for years like that, and when I finally decided to buy a new off-brand cylinder, it only cost me the equivalent of 3-4 dollars.
@@luizgoncalves5113Brother consumables are so inexpensive I found out that I don't mind paying 10% more for genuine Brother consumables rather than going 3rd party. My consumption is kinda low-medium, though. For people that really _really_ utilize their Brother printers, the savings might add up significantly. So, YMMV. Buying Brother printers had always been a good investment for my hard-earned money.
I used to work for HP in the 80s. At the time, it was a well regarded company with high quality products. However, in the 90s, they started to hire non-engineer CEOs with wonderful MBAs... It was the beginning of the end. Since then, I stopped buying HP equipment one after another as they produced more and more crap every day, trying to rip money from customers. I bought two non HP laser printers (same brand as the one you mentioned) and I'm now a happy non-HP user.
You are right, I have the same experience. HP LJ4's and its variants were the de facto office work horse. I still use a HP LJ4100mfp today and use non-HP toner. Since I won't buy HP today I spent money on a multi purpose A4 Brother Colour Laser and it works very well, with plenty of sources available for good priced toners.
@@ianchandley Brother DCPL3550CDW Laser color, double-sided, double paper sources. I'm using Linux and I followed the installation process provided by Brother. Works like a charm !
I've said this for 20 years. In the 90s HP made great printers. I remember in the early 00s I bought a HP printer from a retail store, took is straight home to set it up and it wouldn't work because the ink was "expired". I returned it and never bought an HP product ever again.
Have my Laserjet 4000 for 25 years now. It has Duplex and Network and I never had any issues. Threw all ink printers out years ago. Laser is cheaper, more reliable and has much better prints that don't look like garbage.
Expired ink... I too experienced that. Bought a package of two black ink XL950 and after I used one of the and installed the second one, it expired by several months and the printer refused to print because the error 'expired ink cartridge"! How stupid is that... Ink cost $40 each!
I bought a brother laser printer with no frills for $40 a long time ago, maybe 6-7 years ago. It's rotated around the family, parents have it now after I left. No wifi capability, usb only, but it has ALWAYS worked. I got 10x+ the value of that printer out of it. Have always respected brother as a result as a brand and happy to see them getting a good mention here.
same. I bought one from walmart for 70 bucks maybe 3 years ago and use it fairly frequently. still on the same toner cartridge and no signs of needing another yet (knocks on wood*)
same!! after wasting so much money for unusably shitty results on a string of inkjets (don't get me STARTED on how it needs magenta to print in black) I got a Brother laser printer, and it just ... works! Reliably! I print stuff constantly, never have to pay for an account to use the printer ink, and only have to replace the thingamijig once or twice a year
I still own my 150€ Brother DCP-7030 from 2008. It served me very well in college and is still printing flawlessly. I have never replaced the drum (it's time though) and last toner change was about 7 years ago. I literally printed entire books on this thing for years without any issues only using knockoff cheap toner cartridges from eBay. Probably the best value purchase of my life
My dad used to be an engineer in the laserjet division, and there was definitely some bad blood between the divisions over how the inkjets treated the customer. I still have a 2001 HP laserjet that I am happily using with no issues and no maintenance. It was in a box for 4 years when I didn’t need it during one move. No problems when I unpacked it and fired it up.
I had a HP laserjet 4L I bought in 1993. It served me well for 20 years. Unfortunately during one of my 5 moves, I dropped it once too often. That product was a beast. Tell your dad my thanks for that. It was a rugged workhorse and never let me down.
Totally agree, I have fallen foul of HP's instant ink con. The biggest problem I have experienced is trying to get a replacement ink cartridge when mine has dried up. I have cancelled my instant ink subscription and bought a Brother laser printer and so glad I have done that. Thanks for a great video, revealing the truth behind HP's BS!
Suddenly, I realise that Louis Rossman's job is really stressful: 1) Trying to repair devices built to fail and turn to trash, 2) Trying to convince customers to buy better, not cheaper, products and... 3) Trying to convince politicians to protect the general public from the "business practices" of the tech industry... Did I miss something?
He is on a mission.. and we as users of tech and trying to exist in the obfuscation nightmare that is threatening to engulf us.. should support his and our cause..
I think your third point should have a sub section that says Louis has the task of challenging politicians to start feeling bad for taking the money of companies.
@@leedunbar4222 Thanks. I foresee a future where all abusive tech companies lose their customer base and are reduced only to their government and business leasing equipment departments... fedtechmagazine.com/sites/default/files/75788-wp-it-leasing.pdf
I can definitely recommend Brother laser printers. One of my relatives bought one 5 years ago and despite it being used fairly regularly it still works just fine. It also has a scanner and the quality is perfectly fine for what the vast majority of people need.
I have an inkjet Brother with the inktank, bought it about five years ago. I don't really use (which is even worse than using it a lot), but when I do, it's always ready and never had an issue. The printer wifi is reliable (never disconnected, not once), the scanner is really top notch for a home printer, and its fast. I'd recommend it to anyone, anytime.
Indeed! I bought one recently following the advice from this channel and I'm very happy with it! I hope that this brand keep being like this so is THE option against HP (and others) insane business model.
My Brother laser / scanner gets used from time to time and has been working great for 7 or 8 years. It's also worth mentioning that their Linux drivers don't suck, unlike HP's.
I have HP test equipment twice my age that will probably outlast me. Every part of HP that was HP has been sold off and sold again until there is nothing left. It's heartbreaking in a way.
What was HP is now Aligent (and possibly HPE). And let's not even talk about HP calculators.
ปีที่แล้ว +1
@@hp67c Now it's Keysight; the general purpose instrumentation business got spun off again! Agilent now specializes in biomedical and nuclear power vertical markets.
@@hp67c Agilent has life sciences now, Keysight is standard test and measurement, components ended up with Broadcom [retch], and various pieces broke off all over the place. Sadly it seems the HP 67C will never be released due to their poor management. At least we can still get 12C, I guess.
This is such a horrible practise that it needs a class action lawsuit asap! Personally I'm just amazed that Norwegian authorities have let this evil and malicious practise get past the Marketing Authority.
The “imma pump up the sales figures so I can get a good bonus, then leave” is something I have seen at EVERY job I have ever had. And I’m talking about working at restaurants, hotels, grocery stores, etc…even now I work as a server repair tech and I see my bosses doing it. This is INSANE. I have had superiors completely screw the entire company and then just leave with a huge bonus. Bonus structures need to be well thought out or it leads to bad results every time
It's the fault of the sick head of the company. These company owners usually are ok guys, they think about the future (unless they were selected by the investor board ;) ), EXCEPT that they usually are f*cking laziest sons of b*tches on Earth and the better the company works, the more money they earn, the lazier they get. Having 4-5 vacations per year? No problem! They drop all the work on the middle layer management, just look at the numbers in order to judge them, they never go down and try to keep up with what is actually happening in the company. They just turn on their Excel from time to time, look at those few numbers and that's the end of the working day for them. Not a slightest effort to go down, speak with actual lowest layer workers, see what's happening there and how they see the future of the company (because it's the lowest layer that usually thinks about the future - and that's why lowest layer keeps being the lowest layer). Middle layer managers are not stupid, they are extremely smart people. They know, that working too hard to make the company work better, instead of just making the numbers look better - this doesn't work at all with such bosses. No one will notice, no one will care. They may even get fired for questioning things, bringing up ideas that the top doesn't understand, sacrificing numbers at the owner's excel and focusing on those that somehow didn't fit the limit of 5 visible columns on his laptop.
I think the problem is that a lot of the shareholders are also in it for the short term. So executives and managers doing this is exactly what a lot of shareholders want. Pump up the sales, crank up te stock price, and then we both leave.
Not only printers, but laptops as well. I bought an HP laptop few years back, and it crashed in less than a month. It was so frustrating, it kept overheating. One day it got stolen and weirdly enough, that made me happy. That gave me a reason to buy a new one (non HP of course).... and the thought of the thief getting frustrated of that piece of "gem" he stole from me is an added bonus.
We're in this together. I bought mine in March 2022 for 800€ and it looked decent online and for the features I got for the price. I mean, it's been running reliably since and without any overheating or much crashing even with Win 11, but the hardware itself...feels like a piece of plastic toy under my fingertips, the keyboard is a joke, so is the entire surface. I'm almost afraid of resting my (little larger) hands on that thing or I might dent it in 😅
SAME AS YOU GUYS. bought an hp laptop this year and it’s hardly hardly usable. it’s running like trash. waste of my money, and i don’t _have_ those disposable funds for a new one. i am without a computer
I bought an hp tower in 2013 and am quite happy. The graphics card needed to be replaced, but the whole thing is still in operation. Recently the hd drive is producing errors. I might need to move it soon, but hardware does not last forever. Overall, I had good experience with hp. Maybe I was just lucky. Makes me sad, if there really is a deterioration process going on... 😞
I was jumping since early 90s with HP, Epson and Lexmark inkjets. I moved into laser with a Brother one. Replaced the toner twice already (it lasts around 1000 prints). Problem solved. Best way to avoid printing headaches.
"Let's say you do need color printing" If it's not frequent, drive to your local library or office store and print it there. That's what I recommend and do if it's not a regular need. Libraries typically have less markup for printing color.
Already ten years ago. The HP technicians where pushed to sell new equipment instead of repairing them. My team and I where reprimanded for not selling a new things instead of repairing it and saving the customer money. I clearly stated that they where engineers and not sales people. Long story short that was my last month at HP.
Absolutely agree, not so many years HP products were of an excellent quality and build. Laptop build quality has gone the same way. At one time I’d recommend HP products to friends and family but now I’d tell them never to touch them with the proverbial barge pole.
@@Andy-xn9zn I honestly don’t know I’m afraid. My current laptop is an ASUS that has an excellent build quality but I bought it 8-9 years ago (don’t know if the new ones are the same quality?). I do need to start looking at new ones but will look first at strong the build is before looking a the tech details.
4:00 I think they bundle printers for free with computers at most stores now. The fact physical goods like this and cars are on free to play models just has the heaviest dystopian vibes
Printers are a classic vendor lock-in, also called "Razor and blades model", they often sell you the device itself subsidized with an initial dose of ink/toner (literally like a drug dealer, the first dose/line goes on the house/for free) and the spare blades/toner/cartridges at cutthroat prices; a few months ago here in germany a new coffee system from Switzerland that uses capsules without a capsule (ground coffee that has been pressed into balls) was launched "Coffee B" and the machine initally costs around a hundred bucks but the prices at the exclusive seller EDEKA dropped rapidly I saw them a few weeks later selling it for 40 and then 20 bucks, almost gifting it and guess why - it's still a lock-in and these coffee balls are a lot more expensive per 100 grams than a similar amount of "loose" ground coffee or whole beans... Another example are the brush heads for electric/electrosonic toothbrushes, they also sell you like 4 heads for a whopping 30 bucks, luckily nowadays there are 3rd-party compatible heads for much more reasonable prices like 12 for 20 or 8 for 24 bucks...
They already made the printers themselves suspiciously cheap while marking up the price for ink like crazy. Guess they might as well give them away for free. The real money maker is the ink.
HP has not sold an inkjet printer above the cost to make in more than 20 years because it's the ink they make all their money on. Most ink based printers are sold at a loss because of how much the markup on ink is and that is not just HP. You can tell how much ink will cost you by the selling price of the printer itself. The higher the price of a basic printer, the lower the cost of the ink.
if you power on your printer to do the scan it will make a test squirt to check the cartridge so you have to add that amount into the usage. A scan will use ink if you add the test squirt it does and calculate on the basis that it will do it every time.
First, I often print in color (and need to). That said, I used to by HP products when they were good. As a Linux user, I appreciated the fact that the older printers all used HPCL to communicate with the host computer, which meant that I never EVER had to worry about compatibility or the availability of drivers. With my last printer purchase, I discovered that HP printers now suck stupendous balls through a thick garden hose. Mine insisted it had a "paper jam" even after dis/re-assembly. There's also the "can't scan without ink" nonsense and the fact that the "ink cartridges" don't contain enough ink to wet the foam inside (literally!!). I switched to the Epson EcoTank printers. Liquid ink. You can buy the bottles for CHEAP, and get them from multiple third-party vendors. There's no way for the printer to execute the "not an original HP cartridge" scam, either. In My Humble Opinion, what HP is now doing is consumer fraud, which is clearly and blatantly criminal behavior. I've washed my hands of them, but I'd be pleased to join any class action intent on suing them into obscurity.
@@lennytlm dunno about that. got an HP Deskjet 2130, worked straight out of the box. Sure, all the issues with expensive cartridges and jamming if not used regularly etc. Not a shill here, definitely would love to get a Brother next time . But the HP worked for 5 years and works with 3rd-party cartridges on Linux. On Linux wouldn't even be surprised if there are zero restrictions ie scan without ink etc. That sort of stuff is usually for Windows users.
Good for you for standing up for integrity. I purchased an HP desktop in 2001 along with a 12-month warranty. On month 13, I started having troubles that required me to call the help desk. I was told that it was time to replace my desktop. After one year? Are you serious? I was told that HP expected customers to replace their desktops every year. Fair enough. I agreed to replace my desktop, but I swore that I would never buy another HP product. So, yeah. The printer scam doesn't surprise me. Sad that they never changed. It is who HP is.
I used to work at a major tech retailer here in South Africa, and we once had a special on an HP inkjet printer going for R200 while the cartridges were about R300, once had a customer come in and buy 20 printers and literally eWasted them when the cartridges that came in the box ran out because the printers themselves were so prone to failure. I tried to convince him to get a laserjet but he was convinced that buying 20 inkjets was a better deal
Twenty years ago I applied for a job as an IT technician at a large Secondary school nearby. The IT manager of the school took us on a tour of the facilities prior to the interviews. I noted that all the printers were cheap domestic ink jets with some surprise in my voice. The manager proudly stated that it was cheaper to buy inkjet printers then Laser printers especially as they used off brand refill packs for the ink cartridges. I asked how many printers did the school have to be told over 100, I then asked how long before they failed and needed replacement. He responded six months maybe up to eight if they were lucky then they would buy a new "cheap" inkjet. He was really proud of his cost saving measure for the school! I didn't get a job at this school...
@@Fedaykin24 Yeah I am in IT and have met some managers like this. I don't know if you noped out or were just not hired but probably for the best if they did not hire you.
I quite liked the HP pagewide inkjet printers. They didn't have a moving printhead - there was a stationary set of inkjet nozzles arranged in a strip as wide as an entire sheet of paper. That printer would just crap out printed pages as fast as a laser. HP stopped making it because the cost-per-page to print with it was too low. A company that does that deserves to have its patents invalidated.
I was part of Compaq when HP took them over. During the first session with the CEO Carlie F. We were told we would "Learn to love Ink" this was around 2003/4
Seriously, I love my Canon Pixma. Got mine for $200. Comes with two giant ass bottlles of black ink and smaller for colors. Its been almost a year and still have lots of the ink it came with and WAAAYY cheaper than a toner cartridge is.
Made my dad buy a laser brother printer about 2-3 years ago and it’s the longest running printer we ever bought😂 he got an expensive one for the business and he admitted it’s probably saved him more money then he could have ever imagine a printer doing
@britneyfreek I stopped using cannon after I helped someone set one up. It was a PITA and HAD to be connected to the internet before it would print . It wouldn't have been bad but the app to connect it to the wifi was a POS and kept giving errors .
In 1973 I was working at an engineering facility programming an IBM 1130 computer. The IBM customer engineer who came out to service the computer proudly showed us the HP oscilloscope he'd purchased with his own money. It was his pride and joy, and it was a stunningly high-quality piece of equipment. He took the cover off of it, and all the engineers gathered around to admire the internals. Now the HP that made the highest-quality stuff in the world has sunk to this??
Ironically, I joined HP out of grad school that very year. Your facility was likely the only facility that didn't use an HP3000 for computing -- EXCEPT for one of the Palo Alto area's manufacturing divisions which ran the biggest IBM System 3 available. And, you're absolutely spot on, Bill & Dave's product strategy was clear & simple: HP will provide premium products to the market at premium prices. That strategy worked superbly for many years.
@@rogerforsberg3910 There were at least a dozen 1130 installations in the Detroit/SE Michigan area at that time. (That many companies were members of a user group.) It was IBM's cheapest computer when it was introduced in 65. Younger people might get a laugh looking at the Wikipedia page for it. Longer than a normal office desk, cost over $100K (a quarter million in today's dollars?), as best I can remember. It had 32K (yes, "K") of actual core memory. (Kids don't know the word "core" meant tiny magnetic rings, called cores, with multiple hair-fine wires strung through them.) Seemed like a lot, back then. In any case, 50 years later I can still remember the proud grin on the CE's face when he pulled out that oscilloscope. Like a 5 year-old with his first puppy.
@@rogerforsberg3910 So, what would you say has ultimately changed? Is this a scenario where the CEO is determined to use their golden parachute and GTFO? Or has HP wound up in a situation similar to companies like Kodak, where the only thing that remains linked to the original company is the brand name and whatever IP weren't already liquidated?
@@rogerforsberg3910 Agreed. I think part of the story of HP's demise is that a company that was once happily run by smart people with engineering backgrounds came to be run by lesser souls, many with a finance or accounting backgrounds. "Mr. Packard was always a gentleman, who insisted that his employees respect their competitors. ... (T)here is much that Mr. Packard would have disapproved of in today's (Silicon) Valley. Growing up in the depression and seeing what banks could do to companies, he swore never to take on long-term debt. The firm grew on profits alone, and did not go public until nearly its 20th year. ... (H)e relished face-to-face contact with his employees. When he worked at GE, after leaving university, he spent a day on a factory line and cracked the problem behind its failure rate with vacuum tubes. From then on, when things went wrong at HP, he would head for the shop floor. This 'Management by Walking Around' (later dignified by management theorists as MBWA) reflected Mr. Packard's low tolerance for boardroom decision-making, business schools and professional managers." [Excerpted from David Packard's obit in The Economist (13-Apr-96) which I clipped and have at my desk as a source of continual inspiration.] Still have my HP-15C programmable hand calculator, and its spiral bound (!) manual, which is working fine 40+ years after purchase ... and a handy alternative if I haven't the time, opportunity or inclination to fire-up a spreadsheet. Cheers.
Man the old HP 5Ps were beasts. Early laser printer, 25 pin, pretty sure we had some I used to service that were in the millions of pages, insane build quality and basically never died unless someone screwed up loading paper or put something in it they shouldn't have. They always could be fixed. How far they have come..
Yep, the department I used to do IT for in the 90s had a LaserJet 4si that thing printed like a million pages. It was going constantly. Never broke down as far as I could recall.
Yep. A printer that works for a decade or more of regular use only makes the company money once per decade or more. A printer that craps out in 5 months? That's continuing revenue even before the slimy ink subscriptions. - I knew someone who was using their printer pretty heavily and would go through dozens of ink cartridges and 3-6 printers per YEAR. But they could not be talked into a laser printer at all, even though they were only printing in black & white.
Those and the 8000s, yeah those were beasts. I worked at a financial company a long time ago that had like 4-5 of them for check printing, never had a problem with them.
P1102 were amazing as well, the university I work at still has around 80 of them. They rarely break, and even if they do it is usually just a separator problem that can be serviced.
Several years ago I went to Savers and noticed a Xerox 3210 AIO printer priced 20$. I immediately got the thing. Since then it just prints and prints and prints on the same cartridge. Best 20$ spent
Worse yet, they ALSO lock printers, the HARDWARE, to user accounts... so if you sell your printer and DON'T release it from your account, the new owner CAN'T USE IT! That's terrible.
@@obtuse1291 Sounds like you should scrap your current printer and get yourself something that isn't made by a scammy company. You know, like one of those Brother lasers everyone is talking about - I got one of my family members one of those, they love it. Or, if you can't afford that, go hunting for a laser printer at thrift stores and/or online used items marketplaces. Should be able to find a usable one that'll serve you much better than whatever piece of junk you have, for pretty cheap.
The brother printer I bought almost 6 years ago was one of the best tech purchases I've ever made. I still haven't changed out the original toner it came with. The ink in the HP printer I had would dry up after a couple months of unuse.
Louis, thank you a thousand times. After I have been using HP printers for years, I saw this video and also realized HP is a scam. I went to Staples and bought the exact same Brother printer you suggested and I cannot be happier. HP is a legitimate scam as you say. I buy the printer cartridges and even though I keep the printer off (which seals the printer ink cartridges), they still seem to destroy themselves for no reason at all. Plus, the WiFi is always disconnecting and unusable. After frustration, I watched your video and bought the Brother printer. WiFi was connected in 5 minutes and is still working flawlessly. HP is like Keurig coffee makers. You buy a cheap machine then spend tons on the printer cartridges and the coffee pods. Keep up your great work, my friend. Cheers.
Took the words out of my mouth. I came in to a tech job where the entire outfit was using HP. I was determined to cut that real quick. It’s taken a couple of years but all 5 buildings have been converted to brother.
This is normally the tirade I have to go through for my clients who want an HP or an inkjet printer. I’m just going to point them to this video from now on. Kudos to you, brother.
I am led to believe that it is unlawful for a publicly listed company to do any thing but maximise profits and maximise returns to the shareholders. Unnecessarily increasing wages for example can get them into trouble.
@@kissingfrogsnot evenly remotely true. They have to operate in the best interest of shareholders, who are of course almost always profit and return driven. The shareholders can vote to maximise salaries and reduce environmental impact for example.
I was an HP inkjet printer user since their first inkjet printer came out. It worked great for years. Sadly, the price of a cartridge went up drastically as the years progressed. Eventually I decided to go with a color HP inkjet printer, but found that the cartridges were usually dried out when I needed it...and they cost a fortune (3X ???) to replace. Never mind the incredible number of cartridge models on the wall at staples and the probability of bringing home the wrong one. A couple of years ago I trashed all of my HP printers and bought an Epson ET-4760 color printer that you fill with bulk ink. It has worked flawlessly for those two years...no dried out cartridges to replace. I am still using the ink that came with it, too! It just sips ink compared to those HP ink guzzlers, and the price of new BOTTLES of ink are about the same as the tiny HP cartridges used to cost me.
I went for the Canon Maxify with the same concept. I love it. Printing in color is very cheap (dont expect great photoprints but in text an magazine prints it is great). I am a heavy user. Used to print mostly in B/W mode because of the price of the colored ink. No I can forget about that. Always print in color mode. After 2 years of heavy printing I finally had to fill up the black ink. The colored ink is not below the halfmark. Printed 14.000 pages with it! Love it
I'm in IT business for the last 30 years. Recently I noticed that hp inject counts down the pages. For example if you put 4 new cartridges the counter resets for 500 pages. Now, When you print a b/w page in color mode then you have 499 left. If you keep doing that and print 500 pages you have to replace all cartridges. Note here that all color ones are still full. Not many people know this
I have an Ecotank and it's great. My understanding isn't that HP actually guzzles the ink- there's a few drops of overpriced ink to begin with and then the printer artificially restricts actually printing all that much.
I was a product manager on one of HP's first color laser printers. I see the quality of what they are putting out now and it makes me super sad. Lew Platt was HP's last good CEO.
Re: Platt, I agree. He had an MBA but he was first an engineer, and understood "The HP Way". His successor was Carly Fiorina, who considered Platt to be a has-been old thinker. Thus began the collapse of HP.
My first printer was a laser I bought in 1990. It was a tank and lasted many years of high volume printing. HP was built and run by engineers who demanded quality, but over time they retired and were replaced by bean counters who could care less about quality.
@@jamesodell3064 Had the "cheap" LaserJet 3P in 1991, and yes, it was built like a tank. I carried it around using the output slot as a handle, it didn't even creak when lifted that way. It was my workhorse for over 10 years. But, somehow, after 10 years, the toner suddenly got ridiculously expensive. Yup, HP has this marketing campaign where they claimed that "inkjet printing is cheaper than laser" -- yes, obviously they had to raise the toner price to make that statemen true. 3rd party toner helped for a while, but apparently the 3rd party supplier eventually thought that it's no longer profitable to stock toner for a 10+ years old model of hardware, so that dried up. Since then, I had exclusively bought laser printers where toner is either cheap and/or 3rd party toner is available for several sources. Currently own a Xerox Phaser (color, duplex, network, 200€). Original replacement toner is 400€ for all four colors. 3rd party toner is 30€, also all four colors. But it feels so like cheap plastic that I was convinced that I could break it by opening the side door to exchange toner cartridges (it didn't break so far, but it just feels that way). In other news, I still have an HP 21 sitting on my desk. I had to 3D-print a new battery holder for it, but it still works. I really like the old LED display (yup, LED, not LCD) and the keys work as well as on day one. Double-shot injection molding, the "print" in the keys isn't printed on the key, it's solid plastic of a different color. It's like it has been built by a totally different company --which happens to be also called "Hewlett Packard", but has nothing to do with modern HP..
what's crazy is I'm a college student and I bought an HP Inkjet for like $250 because it looked nice, had a little touchscreen LCD, and was an all in one model. The thing is horrible in that it refuses to work via usb, over my university wifi, and only accepts prints over direct connection from my desktop. To very other device, it pretends to not exist. HP blows. Their software is godawful as well.
My grandparents hp inkjet was great. It's an older one but after an update it stopped working with aftermarket cartridges. Luckily I was able to downgrade the firmware, which probably isn't possible with new printers
I got an Epsom WF-385 pro for 80AUD, it is a decent printer. I remember printer ink refiller guys used to be a thing, haven't seen any in my town lately.
Generally agree. Only exception is if you regularly print photos and you get an inkjet that is easily refillable or uses tanks (e.g. Epson or Canon). If you print often, dried out ink isn't too much of a problem and liquid inks are actually pretty reasonable, but only when purchased in bulk. For people that rarely print something - get a laser. If all you print is text, shipping labels, or stuff that doesn't really need color - get a laser. Realistically, few people even need a color laser - monochrome is perfectly fine. For the occasional photo you may want to print, just get Walmart or somebody to print them for you - it'll be way cheaper and better quality than maintaining your own inkjet.
@@theflash9068 do a search about the ecotank and their ink pad. You have to ship your printer to Epson to have it replaced (it's basically an ink tampon with a chip that only they can reset)
I'm glad you brought up the brother black and white laser printer. I owned mine for seven years, and I have refilled the toner twice on my own. Still works like new and love it.
You know how after all the big wars we bring people to trial for things that weren’t technically illegal but were so clearly wrong that it should be punished anyway? Can we expand that to corporate law?
I've been using an HP printer for years and have been signed up to Instant Ink for just as long. I am in the "less than 15 sheets/month" category and have never gone over that limit. A year ago (approx) my printer was getting low on ink and I was sent a black and a color cart. free of charge. I have left my printer sit unused for 6 months at a time and has always worked without incident. I usually agree with your take on items and services (like the Amazon Prime commercials/advertisements) but I disagree this time. I love your vids as they are always well done and very informative.
Been using laser Brother printers for around 15 years. Not even once any of them broke - in fact only reason I bought new one was because I was moving to my own apartment and left mine to my brother. I buy genuine just becase i NEVER in my life had troubles with either hardware or software of brother. IT EVEN WORKS ON LINUX OUT OF THE BOX (except from scanning, but single tar install file remediates that). Please support quality manufacturers
In the 90s I used to work creating electronic prototypes, and the Inkjet series was the only one that could print with great accuracy on acetate paper to use in our cheapo UV photoresist etching process. Worked great. It's sad to see HP lose all the credibility and making bad stuff now.
I got an old HP AIO with the parallel port from 2000, still works. Is it any good for converting for use in modern processes? I just wanna know if it could be used to experiment with making something more intricate than boards.
I got a used brother color laser printer/scanner for $350 at the beginning of college and after 9 years it still works and i have bought maybe 2 toner cartridges, just black the colors still arent finished. Brother is fantastic
i learned the hard way 16 or so years ago in the late 90s that twice a year my inkjet cartridges would dry out and the cartidges were more expensive in most cases versus the actual printer. Saw a laser that was like 150 bucks a the time so gave it a go. One of those toner cartridges lasted me 6 years and i got my dad to switch over since he has the same problem. We been happy ever since.
Right on! There's even more to the story too. I could tell stories all day like this. Starter cartridges, firmware updates, and all kinds of examples of not caring about the customer/wanting to own the customer. Epson is now guilty as well. I have clients that stocked up on refilled cartridges that had worked fine for years. Epson sends out a firmware update disabling them and customer is all of the sudden stuck with hundreds of dollars worth of unusable cartridges. Forcing cloud connection is another terrible practice where simple features you would assume a printer/scanner are capable of have to be "rented" for a monthly cost. Thank you for your good work Louis!
Louis, you should check out the recent HP smart tank printers. They come with "three years worth of ink" in the box, but after purchasing you read the label on the bottle and find it's "use within 60 days of opening" 😂
The suggestion to use the ink within 60 days, as I understand it, seems to advise pouring the entire contents of the ink bottle into the reservoir once opened. While it's important to critically evaluate the practices of companies, it might be a misunderstanding to interpret this as a claim that all the yield should be used within two months. I'd be interested to hear other perspectives on this.
I have 6 year old refurb ink cartridges for my Epson (one of the first I’ve owned that AirPrint just works, and works beautifully) and they work perfectly fine. First time I used them it complained about invalid cartridges but turns out I just somehow got ink on the contacts.
How things have changed. We used to always advise our customers to buy HP laser printers over Brother, Epson, Canon etc. HP had the best availability of super-cheap knock-off toner cartridges. We inherited several HP2015DN mono laser printers when a client went out of business a few years back, we're still using them, recon. toner/drum cartidges cost about $20. HP milking their customers isn't a new thing, even back in the early days of inkjets, an HP driver disk installed 100's of MB of crud onto your PC if you were daft enough to insert the CD that came with your printer. The driver (the bit you actually need) is a fraction of a MB in size, the rest was useless bloatware, including a feature which would derive your location from your IP address and direct you to your nearest authorized HP ink dealer when your ink ran low. Sneaky...
I had two black and white brother prints, one with a scanner, one without. They printed ridiculously fast, required maintenance every two years to keep working, and the ink went so far.
@@PanduPoluan And in a pinch if you run out of toner you can usually finish the day's printing by shaking the cartridge. That really frustrates Murphy's law at a deadline.
Yeah, I just keep getting surprised at their ingenuity and creativity. Even those Indian tech support scammers cant hold a candle to their constant stream of seedy moneymaking schemes
Only buy a laser printer. Yes they are more expensive, but they will last longer and the cost per printed page is far cheaper even when you add in the cost of the printer itself. Remember, most ink cartridges are rated for 400-500 pages while toner is rated at well over 1000 pages and toner doesn't dry out in a couple months. The image drums will go bad in a laser printer, but that takes years of just sitting as long as there isn't any light shining into them (never store a toner cartridge outside of a box or black bag)
I agree completely! I have a somewhat older HP all-in-one but it still uses the ink cartridges with the computer chip that marries to the printer and also establishes an "expiration date" for the cartridge. I purchased a 2-pack of "high capacity" HP black ink cartridges at Costco as spares. I don't print all that often but I NEVER expected that when I finally needed to change the black cartridge that it would be "expired" and not work in the printer! A genuine HP printer cartridge, brand new, sealed in the factory packaging, and full of ink would not work because it was past an arbitrary "expiration" date. HP claims that this is to protect your printer from "old" ink. No more HP printers or ink for me. The next time I need to buy an ink cartridge I'm going to buy an Epson Eco-tank printer instead. An inexpensive laser printer only works if you never have to print in color. The up front cost of a color laser printer and the higher cost of color toner cartridges would be higher than something like the Eco-tank inkjet.
I think Epson also would have deserved some credit. For some time now they mostly produce ink printers with tanks, so no DRM, no Greedy Manufacturer, just simple printing with high quality with Ink. The Devices are around 200 - 280€, so in the same league as the Brother
Also they don't seem to stop you using third party ink cartridges. It just says "non genuine ink detected, are you sure you want to use it?" and if you say yes it will print normally. I have three different models and they all work with third party ink.
@@nicholasvinenbought a epson 5150 for my mom a couple of days ago because I remember two youtubers talking about the low cost of ink especially third party but how does it even detect it's third party. you are just filling up the ink reservoirs.
@@nicholasvinen They do on the higher end ones meant for actual photo reproduction (for artists, photographers etc) as the carts have chips that are read by the printer. Although there are alot of crappy third party ink suppliers out there, there are ones that are rivalling the OEM's own inks in regards to the high end market where ink formulation is biiiiig business. On a side note, I do recall Epson (?) being involved in some big law case regarding ink carts not actually being empty even though the printer was demanding a cart change. I may be wrong on that but there was something that blew up a few years ago with one of the big names..
Agreed, I recall helping my father purchase his first PC back in 1998 an IBM, with Windows 98 SE along with a HP inkjet and Fuji digital camera just so he could take pictures of our family and friends, and it was a great purchase, as he had a blast taking some truly wonderful pictures we still have today. Then about 10 years later I decided to purchase a printer of my own, so naturally I purchased an HP, I remember thinking to myself, my god how things had changed, this new HP printer was no where near as good as the one my father owned from 10 years earlier, and a close friend who had just purchased a HP computer that seemed rather junky too. Moving onto the year 2013 was when I feel HP took the final belly flop into the pool of truly crappy products. Since then I steer clear of anything made by Hewlett Packard. Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it.
I love how HP puts a little "No USB" Sticker where the USB is so the common consumer doesn't plug in a Printer Cable to avoid downloading HP's software.
I have been using Brother for years, ink jet mind you. They're reliable, last long and I can put whatever ink I want with the refill tank system. They're a good investment.
When I was working for HP back in 2010, the VP of the ink division was nicknamed the ink sheikh. The barrels of ink were kept in cages in a secure, guarded facility, because it was worth more than gold.
I work in retail, and I've been a computer tech for 15+ years. The amount of time I've spent explaining this exact same issue is insane. You know what the worst part is? They still buy the cheap ink jet and it all boils down to the following reasons: - "I've got grandkids and I NEED to print photos" - "I've got kids and they need to print colour" - "I've always used an inkjet/HP printer, so that's what I'm sticking with" - "A toner costs how much? wow that doesn't seem cheap at all" and that's when I realize the worst part of retail/tech support is the customers. You just can't fix stupid, but you can definitely overcharge them for making your job harder.
@@rustler160 my cannon printer lets me use my own non brand name refillable cartidges. They show up as empty but still work like a charm 6 months later after not using them.
@@ZenAndPsychedelicHealingCenter listen to @skunch's advice (he is a retailer after all). You get much better value with laser printers where the ink lasts for years even though the printer is expensive at first. My mother always says don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish.
To me HP is a great example that a company can ride it's reputation for years, or even decades, regardless of the shitty quality of their products. People don't care. The average Shmoe will just see the name and go "HP, yeah, I know them, they're a good company" and just go ahead and buy it. Kinda reminds me of BMW, their reputation for being top quality was undeserved 10 years ago and people still buy them. This phenomenon is being exploited by Chinese companies here in Germany, they're buying old names like AEG, Zündapp, Grundig and so on. They just buy the name and slap it on some random made in China crap and people buy it because "hey, i know that brand". To me this proves that the vast majority just looks at the name and buys based on brand recognition. The actual quality doesn't matter, they may never buy this product again, but million others might. People have short memories, don't inform themselves and just buy whatever looks good, is convenient or cheap and companies know that.
I don't feel like the BMW comparison is a good one. Despite tarnishing their reputation ever ever since 2010 or so, the G generation has upped BMW's interior and performance game tremendously, despite some of their silly attempts at monetizing the customer in a strange manner (heated seats subscriptions - which they canceled by the way, because we complained). Not to mention that out of the German premium trio, BMW probably gouge their customers the least. To be clear: I'm not trying to paint them as saints, they're not. But if there was a car company you could compare HP to it's VW, easily. They're still riding on the reliability reputation they had decades ago, and they're still upping their prices despite the fact that their cars' fit and finish are more and more budget-oriented (see the most recent Golf, that interior is worse than cheaper rivals).
@@xIcarus227 but that's kinda my point (about BMW at least), they used to build solid, reliable cars, the luxury was about comfort, finish, performance and reliability. Now they're overcomplicated plastic gin palaces that are beyond economic repair when something goes wrong once the warranty runs out. They are stuffed with toys and deliver great performance, but they're built to last a certain time and beyond that there's no telling how long they'll last. Car Ninja always mentions their plastic cooling pipes. A lot of manufacturers are playing the same game it seems.
Thank you, Lewis, for pointing it out. Printer scams have been going on for decades, but today is more money grab than ever. I have years of experience in selling, maintaining, and using printers anywhere from the cheapest there is to big industrial ones, but I'm going to keep it in the home/small office color printer ballpark here. There is always a tradeoff, and you should really sit down and think what you need the printer for before buying any printer. Lasers are good, they don't dry out, work for years, but toners can be very expensive, set of 4 (CMYK) often cost more than a new printer that comes with the toners (usually lower page count ones included in the box). Aftermarket laser toners are hit and miss, much cheaper, but often (not always) with print quality issues. There are good ink jet printers out there, however they cist a bit more then average inkjet printer, not over the top expensive, but not the cheapest thing on the shelf as well, and there is no such thing as worry free ink jet printer. There are things ink jets are good for, and there are things ink jets can do that lasers can't, but 99% of average users don't need any of those features, like printing on real thick paper, printing with special ink etc. Ink jets that use ink cartridges, those are junk across the board, don't buy any of them, don't even accept them as a gift. The ones that use ink reservoirs are good, ink is dirt cheap, and the price per page printed is so low that paper cost is much higher than ink cost, Epson ecotank MFP's stands out as a good example and come with a lot of ink in the box, but the thing with them, you have to keep printing, at least a few color pages a week becose if you don't and leave them unused for months you can pretty much toss them in the trash as servicing them will cost a good chunk of a price of a new one. Every manufacturer today uses identifying chips in toners and ink cartridges to make using aftermarket cartridges difficult or even impossible, but hp went the furthest by disabling working features based on subscription. Before buying any printer check how much full set of tonners/ink cost and for how many pages, chek do you need to replace any other parts (print belts/drums, fuser stations, waste toner/ink bottles etc and calculate cost per page. What may seem as a good deal now might bite your wallet hard later.
I have a lot of HP gear and none of it was made after the 90's. In my eyes, HP engineers were gods. I have a digital frequency counter that was made in 1966. It is still well within spec and it hasn't been calibrated in over 20 years. The suits prostituted out the HP logo to making consumer crap, but even the stuff that is now Keysight is not the rock-solid product that it one was. There is better value for money out there. I would rather have a vasectomy with a weed whacker than buy anything HP.
@@alexanderbaker4900 "Why the company exists in the first place" - Exactly ! and nowhere is this more true than with HP. We used to joke that HP meant High Price, but we knew that we were getting quality. They sold off their reputation one shitty product at a time.
Not only do we have to stay away from HP printers, we have to stay away from HP Smartfriend technical support as well. They are both set to rip people off and the technical support is awful. I ended up having to solve the computer problem myself after paying for the service.
I've known about HP's trashiness since I was a child (about two decades ago), but now they require the customer to get a paid subscription just to be able to use their ink??? Holy shit, that's a record new low. Thank you for not only spreading awareness about their outrageous scams, but also suggesting a decent, non-scamming alternative. I'm absolutely gonna share this video with every soul I encounter who wants to buy a new printer lol.
Absolutely untrue. You just cannot use the ink they sent you as part of the subscription. If you cancel the subscription, you send them THEIR CARTRIDGE back and buy a cartridge from the store. I know, I have the plan and it has saved me a fortune.
@@yxmichaelxyyxmichaelxy3074 Are you genuinely this gullible? This is why HP gets away with their constant scamming. You must be a bot. Nobody is this much of a corporate boot licker.
@@yxmichaelxyyxmichaelxy3074 In the video, we see an example where someone bought a printer that came with ink cartridges in the box and they had to sign up for the paid subscription to use it. I'm asking how that works, cause your comment tells OP that this isn't true even though it is in the video?
I got a brother laser printer 7+ years ago and it's still going strong. I used to refill the ink, but now I just buy their cartridges. They're not super expensive for how long they last, and it's my little way of supporting them. I don't actually know how big they are, but I don't want them to be lured over to the same practices as HP.
In my family we had laserjets since 2006 with a P1004. Now in the office we have 3 hp P1102W and they have never required maintenence nor repairs for over 8 years. Excelent companions for low cost printing and never used original toners.
I personally go for Epson EcoTank line. The ink for these refillable by bottle printers is so cheap that I never even felt the need to by another brand of ink for these printers. Furthermore, they come with 2 full bottles of black ink and one full bottle of each color. I really feel like being treated correctly with these compared to other printer brands and especially HP like you said. I find these a good middle ground between going Laser and getting abused by the printer company
@@Amsro21hifive! I have M200! Best b/w printer although mine is not printing sometimes due to dust clog (it's my bad maintenance lol) but affordable inks and also prints max 800 pages... What else we need!
You are absolutely right about what you said at 6:45. I work for HP for the past year now and let me tell you I expected so much more from this company. I get a feeling that it's being run by a buch of apes that are looking only for short turn profits and doing everything as cheap as humanly possible. Who cares about the future consiquenses of our desisions. We are gonna save 0.5 cents per customer now. It doesn't matter that it will be hell for the people working for us and that our customers won't get what they paid for. I have a feeling management will run this company in the ground in the next 10-15 years because they are focusing on minor things while big problems everyone knows about are being swept under the rug.
I hate HP, too. Years ago, I had a desktop computer that had problems with the CD drive. I called and called and they said try this and try that every time. The last time I called, they informed me the warranty had expired, and there was nothing they could do. I chewed the rep out, telling him they blew me off until the warranty expired. I promised him I would, and to this day, if I see someone even looking at a HP product, I tell them not to buy it.
I have an hp printer that I bought back in 2017. I use it sporadically. Still works fine, sometimes it just prints really slow. Glad I'm watching this, now I know that whenever it does fail I'm going with a different brand.
@@s.i.m.c.a, presumably he'd buy a laser printer. Samsung is ok; Brother is a bit better, according to my own experience. I wouldn't go near anyone's inkjet printer unless I absolutely had no choice.
Read about this. Went looking for a laser printer to replace the ink jet that kept plugging 'cause disuse - and yeah, saw Brother didn't include all the nonsense, bought 1 and it's true, I can just use it, no hoop jumping required ✅
Every person I know who bought an ink printer did so just because of a low entry price. They can't justify spending 160 dollars on a laser printer when there is a 70-dollar ink one that they think will fulfill their needs. They don't know about scams that companies run, and differences between ink vs laser printers in general
This is why I moved to Black & White Brother Laser Printers about a decade ago. These practices are horrific.
I like my espon ecotank printer... The only catch is running a bot to color print 2-3 times a week for the naysayers saying THE INK WILL DRY AND CLOG crowds ... it's as simple as going into task scheduler
mspaint /p C:\Users\username\Desktop\1.gif
Change the path to the file and program to the real file location.
Volume is far better on laser and it's pretty true thaat home users don't print as much as they thought they would. My primter is used solely to print monochrome images of portraits I want to sketch.
So far I can see the ink tank ones as a happy compromise. They still can get stuck nozzles and such like cartridge ones, but the price of the ink itself, and the (so far) impossible DRMing of the liquid you stick on it's tank, allows you to just not care about how much you'll need to pour away on a few cycles of nozzle cleaning or purging.
Have so far (let's not jinx it...) been happy with our Canon ink tank one, the bottles that came with it are yet to require refilling, since it came out of the box with bottles enough for a full charge.
At work of course we got 2 lasers, tho the color Brother LED one (yep, technically not laser, but same printing principle) produces quite meh color results even with it's original toner, let alone the cheapest crap we can find at the lowest price (near unusable prints...), but hey, it DOES work and doesn't complain about it, if needed we could just get not crap toner and fix that.
@@Kalvinjj less efficient than cartridge
The phrase "for your security" have and always will be used by those who wish to abuse and restrict your ability to freely make choices
YUuuuuUP!
Right, including governments. Always looking to thrive on the next crisis.
Kind of like whenever a politician says "the American people", 99% of the time you can bet your ass they are saying whatever follows has 0% to do with what the American people want or need.
> restrict your ability to freely make choices
More generally - just restrict your freedom.
Real Canadian Superstore relatively recently instructed its security to ask leaving customers for a receipt for their purchase. They have never seen / never will see mine, but the pigs lie to your face "this is for your security". And before you decide to defend the poor grocery security guys working virtually for food just to survive, think that while they are required by the employer to ask for a receipt (they don't have the right to demand it, but naturally, anybody may ask anybody else for anything), they are not required to tell you this lie. Yet, they do, and that's their choice.
And the largest abuser of this phrase has always been, is, and will always be the government pigs.
Id say ultimately it depends upon the context. A parent getting their child a cellphone for their security is one thing. When a government agent or a CEO says it, its always a lie.
When HP was founded, it was run by engineers. That is how they got their reputation. Then they were taken over by professional managers whose only concern is to sell the cheapest possible product for the highest possible price. That is how they lost their reputation.
sort of....
when hp was founded it was run by engineers...
over time the engineers were replaced by lawyers and accountants... it's how almost all the original tech companies evolved and lost their way..
I think you mean engineers rather than managers in that first sentence. My main experience has been with their calculators (HP41CV to HP42S), and they were very nice to use, and I have Thomas Okken's fine emulation, Free42, on my phone, tablet, and workstations. I suspect these were good because they were designed by engineers for engineers. The HP35S wasn't anywhere near the quality, and I'll likely sell it on eBay. My SOHO laser printers (both HP) have worked reasonably well, but from the demo pages I saw when I was seeking a replacement for my monochrome printer (LJ1320), I think I will need to seek a different vendor with a good PostScript implementation (emulated or not).
So, every company nowadays?
@@christopheroliver148 - Thanks for the correction. I could have sworn that I typed "Engineers". I have corrected the entry.
Thats the same with Australian Telstra . Now run by Accountants trying to run a Mobile Internet service
This is so true and so sad. I was an engineer with HP long ago and remember the great pride when HP Labs in Palo Alto invented ink jet printing. Back then they went to amazing lengths to engineer top quality products and treated their customers very well. Sigh....
Man, I remember, even when their laptops were regularly failing abominations, I still loved their printers. Heck, I still like their lasers, but man have they plummeted in quality.
They were the premier overall test equipment company for decades. Then they decided to sell off their old test instrument core, to concentrate on the fickled consumer market. HP won't do the right thing if their head is up their ass.
Back in those days, they would give you complete specs of the products. You could make your own accessories and repairs if you chose to.
Rubbish! see 2610A for details!
@@mikeonthecomputerWe had an old saying when I was at HP. “HP would sell you the rope to hang it with.”
I ran into the subscription issues, and could no longer print when I cancelled it. BOOM!!! took it outside and beat it to pieces! NEVER HP!!!!
Ha ha, love that maintenance style.
I like how “not HP” is generally a good answer to both “which brand of printer should I buy?” and “which brand of computer should I buy?”
wait you have to pay to use an hp printer gotta love the bs of that practice
Idk, I bought a ProBook recently and it’s working really well for me, moreover i’ll be able to repair it when it gets old and needs repair. Printers are definitely a no go with this ink bullshit of course.
@@martinrose2668I have a Probook 440 g9 for work and so far it's solid as well.
The trashy ones are the ones like "HP 14/15", "Pavilion" and similar budget models. I had a Pavilion and it was a complete lemon.
My first laptop was HP, and so was the 2nd but the 3rd won't be because they screwed me up in different ways
I've had two excellent HP laptops in the past 6 years or so, including the one I use now.
When toner in my Brother all-in-one will finally run out, I'll buy genuine Brother toner. Not because I'm forced to, but because I've been using their product for years pain free and they deserve a little thanks from me.
When my Brother runs out of toner, I'll have long since been dead from old age.. I'm in my 40s.
Edit: Oops nevermind it's an Epson lol sorry.
I agree, however i bought a brother laser, and bought one(1) toner on ebay, an off brand toner, they sent me 1 (1) box of 20 toners. my grandkids will be dead before this lot runs out.
I have a brother ink-pisser... but it accepts 3rd party cartriges. they are dirtcheap (5€ per set of 5).
it's actually quite insane...
I bought a Canon laser printer almost 4 years ago and the toner cartridge it came with is still going strong. I don't print often, maybe about 40 pages in a year.
But the same print load on an epson ink printer I would be replacing ink cartridges every few months.... Ridiculous how bad a deal that is.
Another great thing to mention about Brother laser printers is that they are more modular than HP lasers. In a Brother printer, the actual toner cartridge with the toner roller is separate from the photo drum so you can replace the toner cartridge without having to replace the drum too (drums last for 30,000 to 40,000 pages) In HP printers everything is one unit and they cannot be replaced separately. I bought a Brother laser from a Goodwill for $5 dollars and 8 years later it is still working just fine.
noice
They're different quality of drums though. The HP ones only last about 10-15% longer than the cartridge. If you've ever used repacked HP laser cartridges, you'll know the rapid decline in quality after about half the toner has been used.
And if course, as a support guy, I've often gone out to a Brother or Lexmark printer with "bad" printing, looked at a sample, and ordered a new drum. Same people using HP would just swap the cartridge and be done.
There's benefits both ways is all I'm saying.
people just need to understand how to maintain their printer and be less wasteful
My laser printer is Brother and I use 3rd party toners, but they do use a DRM chip to try to prevent "unauthorized" toners 👹. I can get around it by moving the chip to the new toner, but they shouldn't be allowed to do this in the 1st place. There should be laws to ban DRM for replacement ink because it's absurd
@@Mr.Anders0n_there’s an override in the settings to allow for this, I think news models still have this
*I own 16 Epsom Eco-tank printers for our office and we use dirt cheap food color in the unit! The trick is to high-speed blend the food color with a few drops of Flax seed oil to make the ink "bead" on the paper and not bleed. We call this step 'drying the ink'. Cost of Food Color Ink? 50 cents per every 10,000 pages IN COLOR!*
Is that true? Does it actually work?
@@Linkman8912 Not really, unless you have a day prepared to mix the inc yourself so that it doesn't make a mess + clean the mess you make while figuring it out.
They are facing a class action lawsuit right now because of all this.
GOOD. This is anti-competitive BS that should have never seen the light of day.
@@PommieUsian anti consumer, yeah, but I don't think it's anti competition because this has little to do with competition
@@benedictjohannes It's both, if you buy a car you aren't forced to only tank gas at Shell or BP, or buy specific flour because otherwise your bread baking machine won't work. That is what's happening here with HP printers.
HP will get a slap on the wrist, nothing more. Affected plaintiffs will get a $10 voucher toward their next ink purchase. Mark my words.
@@TheReapersSon Lawyer here... Kinda sorta true and I definitely understand your frustration with class actions. While I am NOT familiar with the class action mentioned in the comment to which you reply, there is a major benefit of class actions that is not about trying to get $$$ in the hands of each consumer... Injunctions. Getting an injunction with a single Plaintiff is something that the defendant company can usually fairly easily avoid by "fixing" the problem for the one person and then that person loses the ability to continue the lawsuit. But where a class is named, the company cannot as easily just deal with one or two people and evade the power of the court to issue injunctions. As I said, I am unaware of the class action being talked about so I do not know whether the lawyers are just trying to line their own pockets with everyone getting a check for a nickel each or whether they are pursuing injunctive relief to force this crap to stop. Hopefully the latter.
HP has gone the way of Boeing, GM, and other American icons where engineers were pushed aside in favor of professional managers and cost cutters.
True. It seems to be the life cycle of businesses. A small new Business with ingenuity and frugality offers a dynamite new product. People love it and buy more and more. It's the growth through quality stage. Then the market is saturated and that double digit growth in profit slows to 2 or 3%. This adds pressure on the executives to generate more profit. The CEO, who often was the founder, is then booted out and a new CEO is appointed that knows nothing about the business. They then have to show an increase in profit and the quickest way is to cut back in quality, but sell at the same price and to start reducing staff. The new CEO milks it dry and leaves millions of dollars richer with the business making a crappy product and yearly losses. Then you get the following CEO that is supposed to "rejuvenate" the company but is actually there to close up shop cleanly.
"pencil pusher" managers (those that did not grow/level up with the company) are the scourge of good management
prime example is the infamous marketing executive that k!lled a beer company...
there are many more like it in the wild... so beware
Don't forget about John Deere.
RIP Tektronix to
Deere is following the HP model closely and will be almost as hated in the future.
I remember ink prices being so bad that at some point my dad just bought new printers every time the ink needed changing because to buy the ink cartridges it was nearly the same price as the printer
Yup, but soon enough the manufacturers started including only a few ml of ink in those starter cartridges so they weren't even full -.-
My cheap canon printer / scanner cost 29.99 about 10 years ago. Ink is a bit pricey, but I don't print much. It's been pretty useful and reliable.
@@TheHansoostBought a cheap Canon Printer/Scanner/Copier for $50 Canadian years ago. Only ever used it for it's scanning capabilities. I just print at work on the rare occasion.
There should be a special tax, just for HP products, to pay for all the extra landfill they produce compared to other manufacturers.
Along with the Trump tax the cost of corporatism over capitalism is now the loss of democracy, when taxes really become an evil burden.
@@democracybacksliding it's funny you believe in democracy. It doesn't exist.
What about unused tyres in the American desert, who pays for that
They Refused to Let me print without Providing my Credit Card + Applying for Stupid Service, so I had no choice but to return the Piece-of-Garbage
If your Color printer runs low EVEN IF YOU ONLY PRINT IN BLACK-AND-WHITE! U can't Print, with Hp. I Ain't Givin' my Credit Card to Two thousand Companies, Hp, @LouisRossmann Why on Earth the military and specifically the NAVY *Only* carries Piece-of-Crap hp is anybody's guess and someone needs to Tell them! Oh, yeah, it's from the cheaper printers that, Really, they should be giving away for Free** since Wifi and c.c. card is a REQUIREMENT Someone tell the D.O.D. and the military they're Hurting sailors and our veterans by allowing hateful and criminal practices by HP.
The sad thing about HP scraping the bottom of the barrel is that this video is only scraping the surface of their consistent abuse and they've somehow built up a reputation so strong that, as a technician, I routinely have customers *argue* that "Hewlett Packard is one of the best brand names on the market and has been for 20+ years" on a weekly basis.
„sure, they have a great brand name. it works on you.“
Its the same in commercial printing from hp. The amount of waste ink after the computer says its empty is crazy. Like, pounds of ink left and it says the pack is empty.
That's the Stockholm- effect, I suppose ;-)
"Brawndo's got what plants crave: It's got electrolytes!"
Well you can't say that they aren't a really powerful brand, they're literally untouchable.
20+ years Brother HL-5150d Laser Printer... Prints on both sides.. double tray.. printed well over 4 box of paper (approx 20,000 papers!)... still going strong...
Add to the list to avoid Samsung printers too . They were aquired by HP a while ago. In my laser printer the toner had a chip, that blocked the printing after a certain number of pages. I aquired a chip ($2) chip from China, and printed close to 1000 more pages with the same toner. I think people buy the HP printers because they are cheap, and they have no idea about the toner/ink issues!
we have one hp Laser printer and I think we have only replaced the toner once (for almost nothing btw) and I don't think it locked us out. Maybe it's illegal in the EU/UK or the toner vendor spoofs them now.
Just tape over the chip using insulation tape it will work
@@VickyVignesh-w8l nope it won´t work. Tried it :) We had to change the chip in our printer.
That's sad. I had a Samsung laser for years. You could refill the toner cartridge just by pulling a plastic plug out and pouring it in. After 2 or 3 times it did get a bit iffy maybe and you bought a new toner. They were reasonably priced. And the quality and speed were great.
I didn't know that. Thank you for letting us know.
Can someone explain to me why thousands of people have built their own 3D printers but nowadays we can't even have one open source 2D printer ? We need to put these ink scammers out of business
Who
Exactly ! Its so frustrating, how come there just isn't one good printer
"Necessity is the mother of invention." That being said, the micromechanics of piezo inkjet heads are no joke.
How about this then: Take a cheap commercially made printer, either inkjet or laser, rip out all the control electronics and replace them with an open-source alternative. Or just reflash the existing controller with open-source firmware if that's possible. Seems like that ought to be doable.
You need far more precision in a "2D" printer. And we can't really source inkjet printing heads. If we could, we would have to develop ink formulas too. Laser is probably out of the question as well.
FDM 3D Printers are really simple in comparison. They are glorified glue guns with a couple of stepper motors. The software is more complex, but that's been open sourced.
You'll notice that are no open source resin printers either. Or really any other technology.
And then, there are patents.
“For your security” is the IT version of “think of the children”
I have bought a insurance plan from a company called In-security.
There is a device that you need to insert directly into your ear.
@@louistournas120 Wait, what? This is a joke, right?
@@torinireland6526 In-security. Get it? Insecurity and they offer me security.
For HP “guaranteed income” security for them. HP - what a joke.
Both of those statements have come to make me cringe. Any time you hear "think of the children", it's usually to justify some absurd censorship that only the most closed-minded puritan would appreciate. We don't need, nor should we be asking any corporation to be anyone's parent. We need real parents to start doing their job and care for their own children.
This is why we buy old devices, either they were designed to be actually useful for a decade, or they're old enough to hack out all the restrictions
I own a Brother Laser-Printer (HL-1250) from the 90's, it just keeps printing no problems, year after year after year, it is crazy and you can still buy toners for it. This thing has a parallel port & usb & thanks to a raspberry pi it now has wifi as well :) it is amazing. If it keeps going I will make it to the 30 years milestone. Image that with a hp ink-printer... 😂😂😂
@@trackfresse just be careful of potentially outdated health standards for old-school tech. Keep laser printer areas well ventilated, regardless of year
Same with clothing. My best blazers are vintage Hickey Freeman. The modern market has much to answer for. (The high cost of the low price comes to mind though far more general than just Walmart.)
We got an HP inkjet back in 2011, used it until today. We did buy aftermarket cartridges and they did work, but it often gave a warning. But we started printing alot more for our business and followed your advice and bought your exact printer you have in the video. I trust your advice, I'm sure it's the right printer for us!
Also as a farmer who loves John Deere growing up, I won't buy any of their newer stuff anymore. I learned alot from your videos. Keep up the good fight!
A printer that won't allow other cartridges - warnings are okay, but some just refuse to work - should just be binned.
I bought a Brother all-in-one laser for $99 ten years ago, and it's still going strong. The quality and cost of ownership are astounding compared to inkjets, and to _anything_ from HP.
I still have mine I bought in 2010. Last year invested in Brother printer with the “tank” ink and haven’t replaced any ink yet. I print many pages per month (bookkeeper and payroll tax preparer). Love Brother printers!
Brother and Canon laser printers are my go-to's when people ask me what home printer to get.
@@lynnhoffmann247 similar... bought my Brother laser printer in 2015. Rarely use it (mostly at tax time). Same toner cartridge. Still prints perfectly even after sitting for months since last use. Just discovered the HP Ink jet subscription nightmare trying to help my 63 year old neighbor. "WTF is this?!" Told him to trash it and get the Brother laser.
@@vger2 👍🏼 Another thing I do is in the settings I click the “toner saver” box.
Because on some it is forced.
Having spent the first 22 years of my working career at HP starting out in 1973 at the age of 19 as a trainee tech repairing the HP-35 electronic slide rule I had a front row seat the HP’s slow at first but steady and accelerating decline. It was truly heart breaking to see such an amazing company get driven into the toilet by bean counting MBAs starting in the late 70’s followed up by maximum profit before quality upper management and a succession of CEOs in the 80’s and 90’s. My last seven years were spent in the medical products division and one time when we had our annual business meeting in San Diego we got a tour of HP’s San Diego Division which manufactured XY plotters, chart recorders and the first few generations of Inkjet printers. They showed us the new Inkjet 300 printer and how it was actually able to print a beautiful image on a taco shell.
Gone are the days…
Too many companies have copied the Jack Welch way of doing everything...
@@TuckFrump-r9h I finally bailed out on April 13th 1995 after 22 years 2 Months and 19 days. I had spent 15 years in the instrumentation group and just over seven years in the medical products group and I could see the writing on the wall and bailed out to the Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe Railway and had a 25.5 year career with the Santa Fe, Union Pacific and BNSF Railways… Unfortunately the rail industry has gone the way of pretty much the rest of the big industries and I’m just glad I was able to start collecting my railroad retirement in April of 2021.
Printer: No ink for printing your crap.
Printer: Prints test page.
FR.. and their test pages use a lot, I mean LOTS of ink just to check their print head working properly or not
The most egregious component of the HP scam saga: theres no ink the in the cartridges. I saw a video where a guy busted one open, and the sponge which allegedly contained the ink wasnt even wet
I believe it was a Canon. Same story though.
Enrique Lores is the President and CEO of HP Inc
Soon, HP will ship their printers with timed bombs and charge a monthly "bomb timer maintenance" fee to push the timer out a bit
Haha, that's practically the plot of the tv series "Lost".
Could the Island actually be a HP printer Ink Service while the caracters are trying to escape from it?
😅
"oh wait, you activated the printer. Guess we gotta do a self-clean cycle. Wouldn't want that ink to dry in, right? Just gotta blast about 3% of each cartridge god knows where, should only take half an hour. Would you look at that, one of the cartridge is at 10% now. May as well be empty. Btw that means the bomb timer was now set to tomorrow. You know what would help with that? A new cartridge pack. Only 99.99$"
You don't think they already have that built in? Guess what happens when the little tank the ink goes into every time it cleans the head fills up? Yep, the printer shuts down and is no longer able to print and you can't empty out that ink tank. Every time you turn on your printer it dump ink into the waste tank. Every time it cleans the head mid printing it dump ink into the tank.
Shhh...don't give them any ideas 🙁
Lol, yes. Exploding ink. 😁
There was once the legend that "hp products are good", then it became "If it says HP and it does not print or use RPN, don't buy" now it's Just "don't buy HP", good villain arc there
I've never known HP to be good quality. They've been leading the hardware failure charts for 2 decades...
I love RPN. In high school during the early 80s I won a science fair calculator competition with an HP-32e. Not only did I win, but I corrected 5 of the answers on the test as well.
I bought a Brother laser printer like 8 years ago and I'm still using the first toner cartridge.
I bought a chisel and block of granite in the 1950's. Still trying to get the first i dotted.
@@ChatGPT1111its cause youre stupid. Life is hard, but much harder when youre this dumb.
Same here. Bought an HL1212 in 2016, had to change toner twice so far because I used to use it a lot, and only changed the cylinder once. Should point out, I've moved to different places 3 times with this printer, one of the places I've lived in had a major leak during a storm, and water poured directly OVER the printer for at least an hour. I flipped the thing over and basically a waterfall came out of it, and IT STILL WORKED. Of course that's when the cylinder became permanently dirty and the prints would come out with a few smudges, but I still printed with it for years like that, and when I finally decided to buy a new off-brand cylinder, it only cost me the equivalent of 3-4 dollars.
@@luizgoncalves5113Brother consumables are so inexpensive I found out that I don't mind paying 10% more for genuine Brother consumables rather than going 3rd party.
My consumption is kinda low-medium, though. For people that really _really_ utilize their Brother printers, the savings might add up significantly. So, YMMV.
Buying Brother printers had always been a good investment for my hard-earned money.
@@luizgoncalves5113 plus toner never dries up like ink jet csrtiriges do
I used to work for HP in the 80s. At the time, it was a well regarded company with high quality products. However, in the 90s, they started to hire non-engineer CEOs with wonderful MBAs... It was the beginning of the end. Since then, I stopped buying HP equipment one after another as they produced more and more crap every day, trying to rip money from customers. I bought two non HP laser printers (same brand as the one you mentioned) and I'm now a happy non-HP user.
What printers are they? I’m fed up with HP
You are right, I have the same experience. HP LJ4's and its variants were the de facto office work horse. I still use a HP LJ4100mfp today and use non-HP toner. Since I won't buy HP today I spent money on a multi purpose A4 Brother Colour Laser and it works very well, with plenty of sources available for good priced toners.
@@ianchandley Brother Laser printers are mentioned in the Spiel. MONO.
TEF
@@ianchandley Brother DCPL3550CDW Laser color, double-sided, double paper sources. I'm using Linux and I followed the installation process provided by Brother. Works like a charm !
I've said this for 20 years. In the 90s HP made great printers. I remember in the early 00s I bought a HP printer from a retail store, took is straight home to set it up and it wouldn't work because the ink was "expired". I returned it and never bought an HP product ever again.
HP make rubbish consumer printers. However they're the clear leader in commercial printers where all the money is to be made.
Have my Laserjet 4000 for 25 years now.
It has Duplex and Network and I never had any issues.
Threw all ink printers out years ago.
Laser is cheaper, more reliable and has much better prints that don't look like garbage.
Expired ink... I too experienced that. Bought a package of two black ink XL950 and after I used one of the and installed the second one, it expired by several months and the printer refused to print because the error 'expired ink cartridge"! How stupid is that... Ink cost $40 each!
I bought a brother laser printer with no frills for $40 a long time ago, maybe 6-7 years ago. It's rotated around the family, parents have it now after I left. No wifi capability, usb only, but it has ALWAYS worked. I got 10x+ the value of that printer out of it. Have always respected brother as a result as a brand and happy to see them getting a good mention here.
I can vouch for Brother having high quality, inkwell printers are SOOOOOOOOOOO much better than these cartridge scams
same. I bought one from walmart for 70 bucks maybe 3 years ago and use it fairly frequently. still on the same toner cartridge and no signs of needing another yet (knocks on wood*)
same!! after wasting so much money for unusably shitty results on a string of inkjets (don't get me STARTED on how it needs magenta to print in black) I got a Brother laser printer, and it just ... works! Reliably! I print stuff constantly, never have to pay for an account to use the printer ink, and only have to replace the thingamijig once or twice a year
Brother is amazing. I have MASSIVE respect for them.
I still own my 150€ Brother DCP-7030 from 2008. It served me very well in college and is still printing flawlessly. I have never replaced the drum (it's time though) and last toner change was about 7 years ago. I literally printed entire books on this thing for years without any issues only using knockoff cheap toner cartridges from eBay. Probably the best value purchase of my life
My dad used to be an engineer in the laserjet division, and there was definitely some bad blood between the divisions over how the inkjets treated the customer. I still have a 2001 HP laserjet that I am happily using with no issues and no maintenance. It was in a box for 4 years when I didn’t need it during one move. No problems when I unpacked it and fired it up.
I had a HP laserjet 4L I bought in 1993. It served me well for 20 years. Unfortunately during one of my 5 moves, I dropped it once too often. That product was a beast. Tell your dad my thanks for that. It was a rugged workhorse and never let me down.
Their LaserJet printers suck too. Haven't been good for a decade.
Yep, I have a 5100tn that still works great. Bought it used for $35 about 8 years ago, it just needed a new toner cartridge.
Totally agree, I have fallen foul of HP's instant ink con. The biggest problem I have experienced is trying to get a replacement ink cartridge when mine has dried up. I have cancelled my instant ink subscription and bought a Brother laser printer and so glad I have done that. Thanks for a great video, revealing the truth behind HP's BS!
Suddenly, I realise that Louis Rossman's job is really stressful: 1) Trying to repair devices built to fail and turn to trash, 2) Trying to convince customers to buy better, not cheaper, products and... 3) Trying to convince politicians to protect the general public from the "business practices" of the tech industry... Did I miss something?
He is on a mission.. and we as users of tech and trying to exist in the obfuscation nightmare that is threatening to engulf us.. should support his and our cause..
We need more people like him. Unfortunately, many people really do suck up to the big guys.
I think your third point should have a sub section that says Louis has the task of challenging politicians to start feeling bad for taking the money of companies.
You missed nothing.
@@leedunbar4222 Thanks. I foresee a future where all abusive tech companies lose their customer base and are reduced only to their government and business leasing equipment departments... fedtechmagazine.com/sites/default/files/75788-wp-it-leasing.pdf
I can definitely recommend Brother laser printers. One of my relatives bought one 5 years ago and despite it being used fairly regularly it still works just fine. It also has a scanner and the quality is perfectly fine for what the vast majority of people need.
I'm going on 10 years. The ink lasts a long time too.
I have an inkjet Brother with the inktank, bought it about five years ago. I don't really use (which is even worse than using it a lot), but when I do, it's always ready and never had an issue. The printer wifi is reliable (never disconnected, not once), the scanner is really top notch for a home printer, and its fast. I'd recommend it to anyone, anytime.
+1 for Brother. I just bought a laser one for €200 and I didn’t need to install drivers, it’s got a scanner etc.
Indeed! I bought one recently following the advice from this channel and I'm very happy with it! I hope that this brand keep being like this so is THE option against HP (and others) insane business model.
My Brother laser / scanner gets used from time to time and has been working great for 7 or 8 years.
It's also worth mentioning that their Linux drivers don't suck, unlike HP's.
I have HP test equipment twice my age that will probably outlast me. Every part of HP that was HP has been sold off and sold again until there is nothing left. It's heartbreaking in a way.
What was HP is now Aligent (and possibly HPE). And let's not even talk about HP calculators.
@@hp67c Now it's Keysight; the general purpose instrumentation business got spun off again! Agilent now specializes in biomedical and nuclear power vertical markets.
@@hp67c Agilent has life sciences now, Keysight is standard test and measurement, components ended up with Broadcom [retch], and various pieces broke off all over the place.
Sadly it seems the HP 67C will never be released due to their poor management. At least we can still get 12C, I guess.
I bought a Samsung laser printer 13 years ago, replaced the ink powder 10 years ago and still prints flawlessly. The ink is around 40%.
This is such a horrible practise that it needs a class action lawsuit asap! Personally I'm just amazed that Norwegian authorities have let this evil and malicious practise get past the Marketing Authority.
Speaking of lawsuit, i wonder if this would qualify for an antitrust lawsuit.
Money buys everything you need. Bribery is one of its worst and most used purposes. Look at the US government its the best politicians money can buy.
Exactly! I'm surprised that the EU hasn't payed any attention to printers yet... I've lost hope in North America doing the right thing 😅
There is a class action lawsuit going on right now. Louis himself is the one who talked about it one of his other hp videos.
@@Tuberculosis_Man I sure hope so! Thank you!
The “imma pump up the sales figures so I can get a good bonus, then leave” is something I have seen at EVERY job I have ever had. And I’m talking about working at restaurants, hotels, grocery stores, etc…even now I work as a server repair tech and I see my bosses doing it. This is INSANE. I have had superiors completely screw the entire company and then just leave with a huge bonus. Bonus structures need to be well thought out or it leads to bad results every time
It's the fault of the sick head of the company.
These company owners usually are ok guys, they think about the future (unless they were selected by the investor board ;) ), EXCEPT that they usually are f*cking laziest sons of b*tches on Earth and the better the company works, the more money they earn, the lazier they get.
Having 4-5 vacations per year? No problem!
They drop all the work on the middle layer management, just look at the numbers in order to judge them, they never go down and try to keep up with what is actually happening in the company. They just turn on their Excel from time to time, look at those few numbers and that's the end of the working day for them. Not a slightest effort to go down, speak with actual lowest layer workers, see what's happening there and how they see the future of the company (because it's the lowest layer that usually thinks about the future - and that's why lowest layer keeps being the lowest layer).
Middle layer managers are not stupid, they are extremely smart people. They know, that working too hard to make the company work better, instead of just making the numbers look better - this doesn't work at all with such bosses. No one will notice, no one will care. They may even get fired for questioning things, bringing up ideas that the top doesn't understand, sacrificing numbers at the owner's excel and focusing on those that somehow didn't fit the limit of 5 visible columns on his laptop.
this is also what politicians do
I think the problem is that a lot of the shareholders are also in it for the short term. So executives and managers doing this is exactly what a lot of shareholders want. Pump up the sales, crank up te stock price, and then we both leave.
Not only printers, but laptops as well. I bought an HP laptop few years back, and it crashed in less than a month. It was so frustrating, it kept overheating. One day it got stolen and weirdly enough, that made me happy. That gave me a reason to buy a new one (non HP of course).... and the thought of the thief getting frustrated of that piece of "gem" he stole from me is an added bonus.
We're in this together. I bought mine in March 2022 for 800€ and it looked decent online and for the features I got for the price. I mean, it's been running reliably since and without any overheating or much crashing even with Win 11, but the hardware itself...feels like a piece of plastic toy under my fingertips, the keyboard is a joke, so is the entire surface. I'm almost afraid of resting my (little larger) hands on that thing or I might dent it in 😅
SAME AS YOU GUYS. bought an hp laptop this year and it’s hardly hardly usable. it’s running like trash. waste of my money, and i don’t _have_ those disposable funds for a new one. i am without a computer
@@unfortunatelyiamsane 😨🤕 Is your warranty still good?
Good one. I spontaneously laughed. “Stolen but was happy”
I bought an hp tower in 2013 and am quite happy. The graphics card needed to be replaced, but the whole thing is still in operation. Recently the hd drive is producing errors. I might need to move it soon, but hardware does not last forever. Overall, I had good experience with hp. Maybe I was just lucky. Makes me sad, if there really is a deterioration process going on... 😞
I was jumping since early 90s with HP, Epson and Lexmark inkjets. I moved into laser with a Brother one. Replaced the toner twice already (it lasts around 1000 prints). Problem solved. Best way to avoid printing headaches.
"Let's say you do need color printing" If it's not frequent, drive to your local library or office store and print it there. That's what I recommend and do if it's not a regular need. Libraries typically have less markup for printing color.
This is what I was going to comment. Just go to the library, print out for a very low cost per page with no worry about the printer or ink.
Already ten years ago. The HP technicians where pushed to sell new equipment instead of repairing them. My team and I where reprimanded for not selling a new things instead of repairing it and saving the customer money. I clearly stated that they where engineers and not sales people. Long story short that was my last month at HP.
when i worked at best buy i used to tell people never buy HP and would explain to them in detail why and tell them to tell others about it
Absolutely agree, not so many years HP products were of an excellent quality and build. Laptop build quality has gone the same way. At one time I’d recommend HP products to friends and family but now I’d tell them never to touch them with the proverbial barge pole.
What companies would you recommend for laptops/desktops nowadays?
@@Andy-xn9zn I honestly don’t know I’m afraid. My current laptop is an ASUS that has an excellent build quality but I bought it 8-9 years ago (don’t know if the new ones are the same quality?). I do need to start looking at new ones but will look first at strong the build is before looking a the tech details.
4:00 I think they bundle printers for free with computers at most stores now. The fact physical goods like this and cars are on free to play models just has the heaviest dystopian vibes
Thats how I got my HP printer.... Didnt know about these "features"
I hope someone figures out how to crack these printers so they’re actually useable
Printers are a classic vendor lock-in, also called "Razor and blades model", they often sell you the device itself subsidized with an initial dose of ink/toner (literally like a drug dealer, the first dose/line goes on the house/for free) and the spare blades/toner/cartridges at cutthroat prices; a few months ago here in germany a new coffee system from Switzerland that uses capsules without a capsule (ground coffee that has been pressed into balls) was launched "Coffee B" and the machine initally costs around a hundred bucks but the prices at the exclusive seller EDEKA dropped rapidly I saw them a few weeks later selling it for 40 and then 20 bucks, almost gifting it and guess why - it's still a lock-in and these coffee balls are a lot more expensive per 100 grams than a similar amount of "loose" ground coffee or whole beans...
Another example are the brush heads for electric/electrosonic toothbrushes, they also sell you like 4 heads for a whopping 30 bucks, luckily nowadays there are 3rd-party compatible heads for much more reasonable prices like 12 for 20 or 8 for 24 bucks...
They already made the printers themselves suspiciously cheap while marking up the price for ink like crazy. Guess they might as well give them away for free. The real money maker is the ink.
HP has not sold an inkjet printer above the cost to make in more than 20 years because it's the ink they make all their money on. Most ink based printers are sold at a loss because of how much the markup on ink is and that is not just HP. You can tell how much ink will cost you by the selling price of the printer itself. The higher the price of a basic printer, the lower the cost of the ink.
It could be worse... HP should just calculate how much ink is needed for an A4 scan...
Aprox 3ml of black ink or 6.5ml of color ink per scan.
A scan should take 0 ink wtf
@@HarmonicVectorthat's... the joke
@bradleywhais7779 Somebody give this man a raise rn!
if you power on your printer to do the scan it will make a test squirt to check the cartridge so you have to add that amount into the usage. A scan will use ink if you add the test squirt it does and calculate on the basis that it will do it every time.
First, I often print in color (and need to). That said, I used to by HP products when they were good. As a Linux user, I appreciated the fact that the older printers all used HPCL to communicate with the host computer, which meant that I never EVER had to worry about compatibility or the availability of drivers. With my last printer purchase, I discovered that HP printers now suck stupendous balls through a thick garden hose. Mine insisted it had a "paper jam" even after dis/re-assembly. There's also the "can't scan without ink" nonsense and the fact that the "ink cartridges" don't contain enough ink to wet the foam inside (literally!!). I switched to the Epson EcoTank printers. Liquid ink. You can buy the bottles for CHEAP, and get them from multiple third-party vendors. There's no way for the printer to execute the "not an original HP cartridge" scam, either. In My Humble Opinion, what HP is now doing is consumer fraud, which is clearly and blatantly criminal behavior. I've washed my hands of them, but I'd be pleased to join any class action intent on suing them into obscurity.
My last HP printer, I got that cartridge error when I put in a real HP cartridge
Interesting how hp printers were good for Linux, it seems hp despises Linux now and nothing works with it
@@lennytlm dunno about that. got an HP Deskjet 2130, worked straight out of the box. Sure, all the issues with expensive cartridges and jamming if not used regularly etc. Not a shill here, definitely would love to get a Brother next time .
But the HP worked for 5 years and works with 3rd-party cartridges on Linux. On Linux wouldn't even be surprised if there are zero restrictions ie scan without ink etc. That sort of stuff is usually for Windows users.
@@lennytlm HP does actually provide some of the best Linux support on the market for the printers. Still wouldn't use a HP printer when it was gift.
Good for you for standing up for integrity. I purchased an HP desktop in 2001 along with a 12-month warranty. On month 13, I started having troubles that required me to call the help desk. I was told that it was time to replace my desktop. After one year? Are you serious? I was told that HP expected customers to replace their desktops every year. Fair enough. I agreed to replace my desktop, but I swore that I would never buy another HP product. So, yeah. The printer scam doesn't surprise me. Sad that they never changed. It is who HP is.
I used to work at a major tech retailer here in South Africa, and we once had a special on an HP inkjet printer going for R200 while the cartridges were about R300, once had a customer come in and buy 20 printers and literally eWasted them when the cartridges that came in the box ran out because the printers themselves were so prone to failure. I tried to convince him to get a laserjet but he was convinced that buying 20 inkjets was a better deal
Twenty years ago I applied for a job as an IT technician at a large Secondary school nearby. The IT manager of the school took us on a tour of the facilities prior to the interviews. I noted that all the printers were cheap domestic ink jets with some surprise in my voice. The manager proudly stated that it was cheaper to buy inkjet printers then Laser printers especially as they used off brand refill packs for the ink cartridges. I asked how many printers did the school have to be told over 100, I then asked how long before they failed and needed replacement. He responded six months maybe up to eight if they were lucky then they would buy a new "cheap" inkjet. He was really proud of his cost saving measure for the school!
I didn't get a job at this school...
i loved the laserjet series. i used a 3, and a 5. the 3 for for long format, card stock. the 5 was for letter.
@@Fedaykin24 Yeah I am in IT and have met some managers like this. I don't know if you noped out or were just not hired but probably for the best if they did not hire you.
I remember seeing a sale, at Incredible Connection I think it was, "buy a set of ink cartridges and get a free printer" 🤣
I used to do that and would get a free ream of paper to boot, The printer became the disposable, weird.@@MarkoVukovic0
I quite liked the HP pagewide inkjet printers. They didn't have a moving printhead - there was a stationary set of inkjet nozzles arranged in a strip as wide as an entire sheet of paper. That printer would just crap out printed pages as fast as a laser. HP stopped making it because the cost-per-page to print with it was too low.
A company that does that deserves to have its patents invalidated.
*What US government entity is empowered to do that?*
@@blackrifle6736None, but HP would deserve it.
Patents expire for a reason. It's fair game at some point.
@@thepwrtank18Unused patents should expire much quicker....
I was part of Compaq when HP took them over. During the first session with the CEO Carlie F. We were told we would "Learn to love Ink" this was around 2003/4
"HP = Horrible Product"
@@PrestoJacobsonalso Having Problems.
Seriously, I love my Canon Pixma. Got mine for $200. Comes with two giant ass bottlles of black ink and smaller for colors. Its been almost a year and still have lots of the ink it came with and WAAAYY cheaper than a toner cartridge is.
Made my dad buy a laser brother printer about 2-3 years ago and it’s the longest running printer we ever bought😂 he got an expensive one for the business and he admitted it’s probably saved him more money then he could have ever imagine a printer doing
i‘ve been using a canon mx850 for… 15 years. loved it.
more money than*
@@herrweiss2580correct
@britneyfreek I stopped using cannon after I helped someone set one up. It was a PITA and HAD to be connected to the internet before it would print . It wouldn't have been bad but the app to connect it to the wifi was a POS and kept giving errors .
@@sweis12 well. 15 years have passed. looked at canon recently and didn’t like it either.
In 1973 I was working at an engineering facility programming an IBM 1130 computer. The IBM customer engineer who came out to service the computer proudly showed us the HP oscilloscope he'd purchased with his own money. It was his pride and joy, and it was a stunningly high-quality piece of equipment. He took the cover off of it, and all the engineers gathered around to admire the internals. Now the HP that made the highest-quality stuff in the world has sunk to this??
Ironically, I joined HP out of grad school that very year. Your facility was likely the only facility that didn't use an HP3000 for computing -- EXCEPT for one of the Palo Alto area's manufacturing divisions which ran the biggest IBM System 3 available.
And, you're absolutely spot on, Bill & Dave's product strategy was clear & simple: HP will provide premium products to the market at premium prices. That strategy worked superbly for many years.
@@rogerforsberg3910 There were at least a dozen 1130 installations in the Detroit/SE Michigan area at that time. (That many companies were members of a user group.) It was IBM's cheapest computer when it was introduced in 65. Younger people might get a laugh looking at the Wikipedia page for it. Longer than a normal office desk, cost over $100K (a quarter million in today's dollars?), as best I can remember. It had 32K (yes, "K") of actual core memory. (Kids don't know the word "core" meant tiny magnetic rings, called cores, with multiple hair-fine wires strung through them.) Seemed like a lot, back then. In any case, 50 years later I can still remember the proud grin on the CE's face when he pulled out that oscilloscope. Like a 5 year-old with his first puppy.
@@rogerforsberg3910 So, what would you say has ultimately changed?
Is this a scenario where the CEO is determined to use their golden parachute and GTFO?
Or has HP wound up in a situation similar to companies like Kodak, where the only thing that remains linked to the original company is the brand name and whatever IP weren't already liquidated?
@@rogerforsberg3910 Agreed. I think part of the story of HP's demise is that a company that was once happily run by smart people with engineering backgrounds came to be run by lesser souls, many with a finance or accounting backgrounds.
"Mr. Packard was always a gentleman, who insisted that his employees respect their competitors. ... (T)here is much that Mr. Packard would have disapproved of in today's (Silicon) Valley. Growing up in the depression and seeing what banks could do to companies, he swore never to take on long-term debt. The firm grew on profits alone, and did not go public until nearly its 20th year. ... (H)e relished face-to-face contact with his employees. When he worked at GE, after leaving university, he spent a day on a factory line and cracked the problem behind its failure rate with vacuum tubes. From then on, when things went wrong at HP, he would head for the shop floor. This 'Management by Walking Around' (later dignified by management theorists as MBWA) reflected Mr. Packard's low tolerance for boardroom decision-making, business schools and professional managers." [Excerpted from David Packard's obit in The Economist (13-Apr-96) which I clipped and have at my desk as a source of continual inspiration.]
Still have my HP-15C programmable hand calculator, and its spiral bound (!) manual, which is working fine 40+ years after purchase ... and a handy alternative if I haven't the time, opportunity or inclination to fire-up a spreadsheet. Cheers.
Sadly HP got of the test equivalent business, they figure they can make more money selling cheap printers
Man the old HP 5Ps were beasts. Early laser printer, 25 pin, pretty sure we had some I used to service that were in the millions of pages, insane build quality and basically never died unless someone screwed up loading paper or put something in it they shouldn't have. They always could be fixed. How far they have come..
Yep, the department I used to do IT for in the 90s had a LaserJet 4si that thing printed like a million pages. It was going constantly. Never broke down as far as I could recall.
Yep. A printer that works for a decade or more of regular use only makes the company money once per decade or more.
A printer that craps out in 5 months? That's continuing revenue even before the slimy ink subscriptions.
-
I knew someone who was using their printer pretty heavily and would go through dozens of ink cartridges and 3-6 printers per YEAR. But they could not be talked into a laser printer at all, even though they were only printing in black & white.
LaserJet is legend. May need new rubber rollers but they are indestructible.
Those and the 8000s, yeah those were beasts. I worked at a financial company a long time ago that had like 4-5 of them for check printing, never had a problem with them.
P1102 were amazing as well, the university I work at still has around 80 of them. They rarely break, and even if they do it is usually just a separator problem that can be serviced.
Several years ago I went to Savers and noticed a Xerox 3210 AIO printer priced 20$. I immediately got the thing. Since then it just prints and prints and prints on the same cartridge. Best 20$ spent
Worse yet, they ALSO lock printers, the HARDWARE, to user accounts... so if you sell your printer and DON'T release it from your account, the new owner CAN'T USE IT! That's terrible.
I was wondering why the used ones are so cheap! Thank God I read some reviews and went for Canon instead.
that's anti competitive and if you're in the US of A, unconstitutional...
@@davepasternYeah, I like a good constitutional in the morning.
@@mikem9536 jolly good for you.
@@davepastern Speaking of unconstitutional. There has been no Drug Prohibition Amendment for over 100 years. No one cares about Constitutional.
I remember having an HP printer in the 90’s. That thing would print anything even if 2 of the 4 cartridges where empty. How times have changed
I remember being out of black ink, so I just printed in the darkest blue possible. It looked black lol
You're lucky. My printer detects my cartridges are empty, usually a few days after I have just fitted new cartridges and hardly used it in between.
@@obtuse1291 Sounds like you should scrap your current printer and get yourself something that isn't made by a scammy company.
You know, like one of those Brother lasers everyone is talking about - I got one of my family members one of those, they love it.
Or, if you can't afford that, go hunting for a laser printer at thrift stores and/or online used items marketplaces. Should be able to find a usable one that'll serve you much better than whatever piece of junk you have, for pretty cheap.
The brother printer I bought almost 6 years ago was one of the best tech purchases I've ever made. I still haven't changed out the original toner it came with.
The ink in the HP printer I had would dry up after a couple months of unuse.
I second that! My parents' Brother printer is almost 20 years old. Mine turned 10. Unkillable and very friendly with generic supplies.
Louis, thank you a thousand times. After I have been using HP printers for years, I saw this video and also realized HP is a scam. I went to Staples and bought the exact same Brother printer you suggested and I cannot be happier. HP is a legitimate scam as you say. I buy the printer cartridges and even though I keep the printer off (which seals the printer ink cartridges), they still seem to destroy themselves for no reason at all. Plus, the WiFi is always disconnecting and unusable. After frustration, I watched your video and bought the Brother printer. WiFi was connected in 5 minutes and is still working flawlessly. HP is like Keurig coffee makers. You buy a cheap machine then spend tons on the printer cartridges and the coffee pods. Keep up your great work, my friend. Cheers.
Took the words out of my mouth. I came in to a tech job where the entire outfit was using HP. I was determined to cut that real quick. It’s taken a couple of years but all 5 buildings have been converted to brother.
This is normally the tirade I have to go through for my clients who want an HP or an inkjet printer. I’m just going to point them to this video from now on. Kudos to you, brother.
And sooooo many people keep buying them because the initial cost is lower😩.
So kudos to Brother, you say :)
It still amazes me as to how HP continues to practice these types of business models and hasn't been told off by the law.
*What consequential and punitive law are you referring to?*
Because corporations can buy lawmakers/politicians that make the law and therefore they own the law?
I am led to believe that it is unlawful for a publicly listed company to do any thing but maximise profits and maximise returns to the shareholders. Unnecessarily increasing wages for example can get them into trouble.
@@kissingfrogsnot evenly remotely true. They have to operate in the best interest of shareholders, who are of course almost always profit and return driven. The shareholders can vote to maximise salaries and reduce environmental impact for example.
@@MeppyMan shareholders **always** prioritize profits, therefore @kissingfrogs is correct.
I like you, you're honest and direct.
I was an HP inkjet printer user since their first inkjet printer came out. It worked great for years. Sadly, the price of a cartridge went up drastically as the years progressed. Eventually I decided to go with a color HP inkjet printer, but found that the cartridges were usually dried out when I needed it...and they cost a fortune (3X ???) to replace. Never mind the incredible number of cartridge models on the wall at staples and the probability of bringing home the wrong one. A couple of years ago I trashed all of my HP printers and bought an Epson ET-4760 color printer that you fill with bulk ink. It has worked flawlessly for those two years...no dried out cartridges to replace. I am still using the ink that came with it, too! It just sips ink compared to those HP ink guzzlers, and the price of new BOTTLES of ink are about the same as the tiny HP cartridges used to cost me.
I went for the Canon Maxify with the same concept. I love it. Printing in color is very cheap (dont expect great photoprints but in text an magazine prints it is great). I am a heavy user. Used to print mostly in B/W mode because of the price of the colored ink. No I can forget about that. Always print in color mode. After 2 years of heavy printing I finally had to fill up the black ink. The colored ink is not below the halfmark. Printed 14.000 pages with it! Love it
I'm in IT business for the last 30 years. Recently I noticed that hp inject counts down the pages. For example if you put 4 new cartridges the counter resets for 500 pages. Now, When you print a b/w page in color mode then you have 499 left. If you keep doing that and print 500 pages you have to replace all cartridges. Note here that all color ones are still full. Not many people know this
@@petroscharalampopoulos8865 Where have you been for like the last 15 years???
I have an Ecotank and it's great. My understanding isn't that HP actually guzzles the ink- there's a few drops of overpriced ink to begin with and then the printer artificially restricts actually printing all that much.
@@petroscharalampopoulos8865 You're in IT and you don't know about tank printers?
I was a product manager on one of HP's first color laser printers. I see the quality of what they are putting out now and it makes me super sad. Lew Platt was HP's last good CEO.
Re: Platt, I agree. He had an MBA but he was first an engineer, and understood "The HP Way". His successor was Carly Fiorina, who considered Platt to be a has-been old thinker. Thus began the collapse of HP.
My first printer was a laser I bought in 1990. It was a tank and lasted many years of high volume printing. HP was built and run by engineers who demanded quality, but over time they retired and were replaced by bean counters who could care less about quality.
@@jamesodell3064 Had the "cheap" LaserJet 3P in 1991, and yes, it was built like a tank. I carried it around using the output slot as a handle, it didn't even creak when lifted that way. It was my workhorse for over 10 years.
But, somehow, after 10 years, the toner suddenly got ridiculously expensive. Yup, HP has this marketing campaign where they claimed that "inkjet printing is cheaper than laser" -- yes, obviously they had to raise the toner price to make that statemen true. 3rd party toner helped for a while, but apparently the 3rd party supplier eventually thought that it's no longer profitable to stock toner for a 10+ years old model of hardware, so that dried up.
Since then, I had exclusively bought laser printers where toner is either cheap and/or 3rd party toner is available for several sources. Currently own a Xerox Phaser (color, duplex, network, 200€). Original replacement toner is 400€ for all four colors. 3rd party toner is 30€, also all four colors. But it feels so like cheap plastic that I was convinced that I could break it by opening the side door to exchange toner cartridges (it didn't break so far, but it just feels that way).
In other news, I still have an HP 21 sitting on my desk. I had to 3D-print a new battery holder for it, but it still works. I really like the old LED display (yup, LED, not LCD) and the keys work as well as on day one. Double-shot injection molding, the "print" in the keys isn't printed on the key, it's solid plastic of a different color. It's like it has been built by a totally different company --which happens to be also called "Hewlett Packard", but has nothing to do with modern HP..
what's crazy is I'm a college student and I bought an HP Inkjet for like $250 because it looked nice, had a little touchscreen LCD, and was an all in one model. The thing is horrible in that it refuses to work via usb, over my university wifi, and only accepts prints over direct connection from my desktop. To very other device, it pretends to not exist. HP blows. Their software is godawful as well.
You should have bought an Epson ecotank.
My grandparents hp inkjet was great. It's an older one but after an update it stopped working with aftermarket cartridges. Luckily I was able to downgrade the firmware, which probably isn't possible with new printers
I got an Epsom WF-385 pro for 80AUD, it is a decent printer.
I remember printer ink refiller guys used to be a thing, haven't seen any in my town lately.
Epson has decent line up of budget VFM printers! I have M200 purchased back in 2016 for 9500 (9800 maybe I don't remember exactly) inr
NEVER buy an HP product ever, or ANY inkjet printers. Brother HL-L3270CDW color laser printer around $250.
I agree, laser is the way to go. Inkjet printers are a scam in general.
@MindinViolet not true, my epson ecotank works great
Generally agree. Only exception is if you regularly print photos and you get an inkjet that is easily refillable or uses tanks (e.g. Epson or Canon). If you print often, dried out ink isn't too much of a problem and liquid inks are actually pretty reasonable, but only when purchased in bulk. For people that rarely print something - get a laser. If all you print is text, shipping labels, or stuff that doesn't really need color - get a laser. Realistically, few people even need a color laser - monochrome is perfectly fine. For the occasional photo you may want to print, just get Walmart or somebody to print them for you - it'll be way cheaper and better quality than maintaining your own inkjet.
A Brother just disabled the brand new aftermarket toner after an update. Brother is on the naughty list too.
@@theflash9068 do a search about the ecotank and their ink pad. You have to ship your printer to Epson to have it replaced (it's basically an ink tampon with a chip that only they can reset)
I'm glad you brought up the brother black and white laser printer. I owned mine for seven years, and I have refilled the toner twice on my own. Still works like new and love it.
Mine likewise.
Same here what a great machine.
You know how after all the big wars we bring people to trial for things that weren’t technically illegal but were so clearly wrong that it should be punished anyway? Can we expand that to corporate law?
and suspend their licence to sell worldwide
I've been using an HP printer for years and have been signed up to Instant Ink for just as long. I am in the "less than 15 sheets/month" category and have never gone over that limit. A year ago (approx) my printer was getting low on ink and I was sent a black and a color cart. free of charge. I have left my printer sit unused for 6 months at a time and has always worked without incident. I usually agree with your take on items and services (like the Amazon Prime commercials/advertisements) but I disagree this time. I love your vids as they are always well done and very informative.
Been using laser Brother printers for around 15 years. Not even once any of them broke - in fact only reason I bought new one was because I was moving to my own apartment and left mine to my brother.
I buy genuine just becase i NEVER in my life had troubles with either hardware or software of brother. IT EVEN WORKS ON LINUX OUT OF THE BOX (except from scanning, but single tar install file remediates that).
Please support quality manufacturers
In the 90s I used to work creating electronic prototypes, and the Inkjet series was the only one that could print with great accuracy on acetate paper to use in our cheapo UV photoresist etching process. Worked great. It's sad to see HP lose all the credibility and making bad stuff now.
I got an old HP AIO with the parallel port from 2000, still works. Is it any good for converting for use in modern processes? I just wanna know if it could be used to experiment with making something more intricate than boards.
Where can I find this acetate paper? Never heard of such a thing.
I got a used brother color laser printer/scanner for $350 at the beginning of college and after 9 years it still works and i have bought maybe 2 toner cartridges, just black the colors still arent finished. Brother is fantastic
i learned the hard way 16 or so years ago in the late 90s that twice a year my inkjet cartridges would dry out and the cartidges were more expensive in most cases versus the actual printer. Saw a laser that was like 150 bucks a the time so gave it a go. One of those toner cartridges lasted me 6 years and i got my dad to switch over since he has the same problem. We been happy ever since.
Same! It was my second semester I got a Brother. It survived an insect crawling in and fusing to the drum. Thing is a tank.
Right on! There's even more to the story too. I could tell stories all day like this. Starter cartridges, firmware updates, and all kinds of examples of not caring about the customer/wanting to own the customer. Epson is now guilty as well. I have clients that stocked up on refilled cartridges that had worked fine for years. Epson sends out a firmware update disabling them and customer is all of the sudden stuck with hundreds of dollars worth of unusable cartridges. Forcing cloud connection is another terrible practice where simple features you would assume a printer/scanner are capable of have to be "rented" for a monthly cost. Thank you for your good work Louis!
Louis, you should check out the recent HP smart tank printers. They come with "three years worth of ink" in the box, but after purchasing you read the label on the bottle and find it's "use within 60 days of opening" 😂
You can just collect your 3 years worth of printjobs and print them in one go in those 3 months /s
The suggestion to use the ink within 60 days, as I understand it, seems to advise pouring the entire contents of the ink bottle into the reservoir once opened. While it's important to critically evaluate the practices of companies, it might be a misunderstanding to interpret this as a claim that all the yield should be used within two months. I'd be interested to hear other perspectives on this.
@@progandy 2 months
I have 6 year old refurb ink cartridges for my Epson (one of the first I’ve owned that AirPrint just works, and works beautifully) and they work perfectly fine. First time I used them it complained about invalid cartridges but turns out I just somehow got ink on the contacts.
How things have changed. We used to always advise our customers to buy HP laser printers over Brother, Epson, Canon etc. HP had the best availability of super-cheap knock-off toner cartridges. We inherited several HP2015DN mono laser printers when a client went out of business a few years back, we're still using them, recon. toner/drum cartidges cost about $20. HP milking their customers isn't a new thing, even back in the early days of inkjets, an HP driver disk installed 100's of MB of crud onto your PC if you were daft enough to insert the CD that came with your printer. The driver (the bit you actually need) is a fraction of a MB in size, the rest was useless bloatware, including a feature which would derive your location from your IP address and direct you to your nearest authorized HP ink dealer when your ink ran low. Sneaky...
I had two black and white brother prints, one with a scanner, one without. They printed ridiculously fast, required maintenance every two years to keep working, and the ink went so far.
ikr? The ink lasted like foooorreeeveeeeeer... made me kinda uncontrollable with printouts lol 😂
@@PanduPoluan And in a pinch if you run out of toner you can usually finish the day's printing by shaking the cartridge. That really frustrates Murphy's law at a deadline.
I’ve been in the market for a printer lately and the first thing I told myself was, I’m not getting HP, it’s been years of horror stories.
brother or xerpx
i‘m looking as well. nothing, absolutely NOTHING, appeals to me. it’s all either cheap or expensive garbage.
Yeah, I just keep getting surprised at their ingenuity and creativity. Even those Indian tech support scammers cant hold a candle to their constant stream of seedy moneymaking schemes
Only buy a laser printer. Yes they are more expensive, but they will last longer and the cost per printed page is far cheaper even when you add in the cost of the printer itself. Remember, most ink cartridges are rated for 400-500 pages while toner is rated at well over 1000 pages and toner doesn't dry out in a couple months. The image drums will go bad in a laser printer, but that takes years of just sitting as long as there isn't any light shining into them (never store a toner cartridge outside of a box or black bag)
I agree completely! I have a somewhat older HP all-in-one but it still uses the ink cartridges with the computer chip that marries to the printer and also establishes an "expiration date" for the cartridge. I purchased a 2-pack of "high capacity" HP black ink cartridges at Costco as spares. I don't print all that often but I NEVER expected that when I finally needed to change the black cartridge that it would be "expired" and not work in the printer! A genuine HP printer cartridge, brand new, sealed in the factory packaging, and full of ink would not work because it was past an arbitrary "expiration" date. HP claims that this is to protect your printer from "old" ink. No more HP printers or ink for me. The next time I need to buy an ink cartridge I'm going to buy an Epson Eco-tank printer instead. An inexpensive laser printer only works if you never have to print in color. The up front cost of a color laser printer and the higher cost of color toner cartridges would be higher than something like the Eco-tank inkjet.
I think Epson also would have deserved some credit. For some time now they mostly produce ink printers with tanks, so no DRM, no Greedy Manufacturer, just simple printing with high quality with Ink.
The Devices are around 200 - 280€, so in the same league as the Brother
Also they don't seem to stop you using third party ink cartridges. It just says "non genuine ink detected, are you sure you want to use it?" and if you say yes it will print normally. I have three different models and they all work with third party ink.
@@nicholasvinenbought a epson 5150 for my mom a couple of days ago because I remember two youtubers talking about the low cost of ink especially third party but how does it even detect it's third party. you are just filling up the ink reservoirs.
I got to add that my Epson won't print black and white because it's out of cyan; so your mileage may vary, I guess.
@@the3dprintingbelgianthe cartridges are chipped. Lexmark is to thank for starting that slippery slope.
@@nicholasvinen They do on the higher end ones meant for actual photo reproduction (for artists, photographers etc) as the carts have chips that are read by the printer. Although there are alot of crappy third party ink suppliers out there, there are ones that are rivalling the OEM's own inks in regards to the high end market where ink formulation is biiiiig business. On a side note, I do recall Epson (?) being involved in some big law case regarding ink carts not actually being empty even though the printer was demanding a cart change. I may be wrong on that but there was something that blew up a few years ago with one of the big names..
Agreed, I recall helping my father purchase his first PC back in 1998 an IBM, with Windows 98 SE along with a HP inkjet and Fuji digital camera just so he could take pictures of our family and friends, and it was a great purchase, as he had a blast taking some truly wonderful pictures we still have today. Then about 10 years later I decided to purchase a printer of my own, so naturally I purchased an HP, I remember thinking to myself, my god how things had changed, this new HP printer was no where near as good as the one my father owned from 10 years earlier, and a close friend who had just purchased a HP computer that seemed rather junky too. Moving onto the year 2013 was when I feel HP took the final belly flop into the pool of truly crappy products. Since then I steer clear of anything made by Hewlett Packard. Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it.
I love how HP puts a little "No USB" Sticker where the USB is so the common consumer doesn't plug in a Printer Cable to avoid downloading HP's software.
just searched that up, apparently if you print without setting up the cloud the printer bricks up after 20 pages.
talk about disgusting
HP is absolute cancer.
I've never been so pissed over a product as I've been over garbage HP printers
@@kamo7293 REALLY?, sick practice
@@kamo7293 mine does differently: il just deep fries the image to a point where there is a double print like 2 mm offset on top of the existing print
Oh my God
I have been using Brother for years, ink jet mind you. They're reliable, last long and I can put whatever ink I want with the refill tank system. They're a good investment.
When I was working for HP back in 2010, the VP of the ink division was nicknamed the ink sheikh.
The barrels of ink were kept in cages in a secure, guarded facility, because it was worth more than gold.
I work in retail, and I've been a computer tech for 15+ years. The amount of time I've spent explaining this exact same issue is insane. You know what the worst part is? They still buy the cheap ink jet and it all boils down to the following reasons:
- "I've got grandkids and I NEED to print photos"
- "I've got kids and they need to print colour"
- "I've always used an inkjet/HP printer, so that's what I'm sticking with"
- "A toner costs how much? wow that doesn't seem cheap at all"
and that's when I realize the worst part of retail/tech support is the customers. You just can't fix stupid, but you can definitely overcharge them for making your job harder.
Indeed, I realized HP is doing this a few years ago. I find it almost unbelievable people are still buying jet printers
@@rustler160 Not all inkjet printers are a scam. Epson for example do some that are cost effective.
@@rustler160 my cannon printer lets me use my own non brand name refillable cartidges. They show up as empty but still work like a charm 6 months later after not using them.
@@ZenAndPsychedelicHealingCenter listen to @skunch's advice (he is a retailer after all). You get much better value with laser printers where the ink lasts for years even though the printer is expensive at first. My mother always says don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish.
They deserve to be scammed then.
To me HP is a great example that a company can ride it's reputation for years, or even decades, regardless of the shitty quality of their products. People don't care.
The average Shmoe will just see the name and go "HP, yeah, I know them, they're a good company" and just go ahead and buy it.
Kinda reminds me of BMW, their reputation for being top quality was undeserved 10 years ago and people still buy them.
This phenomenon is being exploited by Chinese companies here in Germany, they're buying old names like AEG, Zündapp, Grundig and so on. They just buy the name and slap it on some random made in China crap and people buy it because "hey, i know that brand".
To me this proves that the vast majority just looks at the name and buys based on brand recognition. The actual quality doesn't matter, they may never buy this product again, but million others might.
People have short memories, don't inform themselves and just buy whatever looks good, is convenient or cheap and companies know that.
BMW quality was bad 20 years ago. With the 3-series of that time you were lucky to get past 4 years without having a major problem.
@@RB-hj7qc the Car Ninja channel and Hoovie on here on TH-cam would tend to agree with you and certainly the Car Wizard. 😁
I don't feel like the BMW comparison is a good one. Despite tarnishing their reputation ever ever since 2010 or so, the G generation has upped BMW's interior and performance game tremendously, despite some of their silly attempts at monetizing the customer in a strange manner (heated seats subscriptions - which they canceled by the way, because we complained). Not to mention that out of the German premium trio, BMW probably gouge their customers the least.
To be clear: I'm not trying to paint them as saints, they're not. But if there was a car company you could compare HP to it's VW, easily. They're still riding on the reliability reputation they had decades ago, and they're still upping their prices despite the fact that their cars' fit and finish are more and more budget-oriented (see the most recent Golf, that interior is worse than cheaper rivals).
@@xIcarus227 but that's kinda my point (about BMW at least), they used to build solid, reliable cars, the luxury was about comfort, finish, performance and reliability.
Now they're overcomplicated plastic gin palaces that are beyond economic repair when something goes wrong once the warranty runs out. They are stuffed with toys and deliver great performance, but they're built to last a certain time and beyond that there's no telling how long they'll last. Car Ninja always mentions their plastic cooling pipes.
A lot of manufacturers are playing the same game it seems.
You've described Apple.
Thank you, Lewis, for pointing it out. Printer scams have been going on for decades, but today is more money grab than ever. I have years of experience in selling, maintaining, and using printers anywhere from the cheapest there is to big industrial ones, but I'm going to keep it in the home/small office color printer ballpark here. There is always a tradeoff, and you should really sit down and think what you need the printer for before buying any printer. Lasers are good, they don't dry out, work for years, but toners can be very expensive, set of 4 (CMYK) often cost more than a new printer that comes with the toners (usually lower page count ones included in the box). Aftermarket laser toners are hit and miss, much cheaper, but often (not always) with print quality issues. There are good ink jet printers out there, however they cist a bit more then average inkjet printer, not over the top expensive, but not the cheapest thing on the shelf as well, and there is no such thing as worry free ink jet printer. There are things ink jets are good for, and there are things ink jets can do that lasers can't, but 99% of average users don't need any of those features, like printing on real thick paper, printing with special ink etc. Ink jets that use ink cartridges, those are junk across the board, don't buy any of them, don't even accept them as a gift. The ones that use ink reservoirs are good, ink is dirt cheap, and the price per page printed is so low that paper cost is much higher than ink cost, Epson ecotank MFP's stands out as a good example and come with a lot of ink in the box, but the thing with them, you have to keep printing, at least a few color pages a week becose if you don't and leave them unused for months you can pretty much toss them in the trash as servicing them will cost a good chunk of a price of a new one.
Every manufacturer today uses identifying chips in toners and ink cartridges to make using aftermarket cartridges difficult or even impossible, but hp went the furthest by disabling working features based on subscription.
Before buying any printer check how much full set of tonners/ink cost and for how many pages, chek do you need to replace any other parts (print belts/drums, fuser stations, waste toner/ink bottles etc and calculate cost per page. What may seem as a good deal now might bite your wallet hard later.
Well said Lou! I used to work for HP as an engineer. Now I would not touch a new HP product with a 10 foot pole.
Me too.
I have a lot of HP gear and none of it was made after the 90's. In my eyes, HP engineers were gods. I have a digital frequency counter that was made in 1966. It is still well within spec and it hasn't been calibrated in over 20 years.
The suits prostituted out the HP logo to making consumer crap, but even the stuff that is now Keysight is not the rock-solid product that it one was. There is better value for money out there. I would rather have a vasectomy with a weed whacker than buy anything HP.
@@alexanderbaker4900 "Why the company exists in the first place" - Exactly ! and nowhere is this more true than with HP. We used to joke that HP meant High Price, but we knew that we were getting quality. They sold off their reputation one shitty product at a time.
Not only do we have to stay away from HP printers, we have to stay away from HP Smartfriend technical support as well. They are both set to rip people off and the technical support is awful. I ended up having to solve the computer problem myself after paying for the service.
What about their laptops?
I've known about HP's trashiness since I was a child (about two decades ago), but now they require the customer to get a paid subscription just to be able to use their ink??? Holy shit, that's a record new low. Thank you for not only spreading awareness about their outrageous scams, but also suggesting a decent, non-scamming alternative. I'm absolutely gonna share this video with every soul I encounter who wants to buy a new printer lol.
Absolutely untrue. You just cannot use the ink they sent you as part of the subscription. If you cancel the subscription, you send them THEIR CARTRIDGE back and buy a cartridge from the store. I know, I have the plan and it has saved me a fortune.
@@yxmichaelxyyxmichaelxy3074 Are you genuinely this gullible? This is why HP gets away with their constant scamming. You must be a bot. Nobody is this much of a corporate boot licker.
@@yxmichaelxyyxmichaelxy3074 why bother putting a cartridge in a box if you have to pay for it, like the example in the video
@@areyousiri
What are you talking about?
@@yxmichaelxyyxmichaelxy3074 In the video, we see an example where someone bought a printer that came with ink cartridges in the box and they had to sign up for the paid subscription to use it. I'm asking how that works, cause your comment tells OP that this isn't true even though it is in the video?
I got a brother laser printer 7+ years ago and it's still going strong. I used to refill the ink, but now I just buy their cartridges. They're not super expensive for how long they last, and it's my little way of supporting them. I don't actually know how big they are, but I don't want them to be lured over to the same practices as HP.
In my family we had laserjets since 2006 with a P1004. Now in the office we have 3 hp P1102W and they have never required maintenence nor repairs for over 8 years. Excelent companions for low cost printing and never used original toners.
The gym membership of the printer world. Easy to join, impossible to leave financially intact
Brilliant analogy! So true. So sad.
I personally go for Epson EcoTank line. The ink for these refillable by bottle printers is so cheap that I never even felt the need to by another brand of ink for these printers. Furthermore, they come with 2 full bottles of black ink and one full bottle of each color. I really feel like being treated correctly with these compared to other printer brands and especially HP like you said.
I find these a good middle ground between going Laser and getting abused by the printer company
I love Epson’s printers! 🖨️
@@Amsro21hifive! I have M200! Best b/w printer although mine is not printing sometimes due to dust clog (it's my bad maintenance lol) but affordable inks and also prints max 800 pages... What else we need!
You are absolutely right about what you said at 6:45.
I work for HP for the past year now and let me tell you I expected so much more from this company.
I get a feeling that it's being run by a buch of apes that are looking only for short turn profits and doing everything as cheap as humanly possible. Who cares about the future consiquenses of our desisions. We are gonna save 0.5 cents per customer now. It doesn't matter that it will be hell for the people working for us and that our customers won't get what they paid for.
I have a feeling management will run this company in the ground in the next 10-15 years because they are focusing on minor things while big problems everyone knows about are being swept under the rug.
@user: maybe it’s time to move on before the ship sinks.
I hate HP, too. Years ago, I had a desktop computer that had problems with the CD drive. I called and called and they said try this and try that every time. The last time I called, they informed me the warranty had expired, and there was nothing they could do. I chewed the rep out, telling him they blew me off until the warranty expired. I promised him I would, and to this day, if I see someone even looking at a HP product, I tell them not to buy it.
I have an hp printer that I bought back in 2017. I use it sporadically. Still works fine, sometimes it just prints really slow. Glad I'm watching this, now I know that whenever it does fail I'm going with a different brand.
As a former HP Authorized reseller, I no longer buy HP printers and very few if any of their other products. I would state BUYER BEWARE.
and what you buying - cannon or samsung? They doing the same.
@@s.i.m.c.a, presumably he'd buy a laser printer. Samsung is ok; Brother is a bit better, according to my own experience. I wouldn't go near anyone's inkjet printer unless I absolutely had no choice.
@@s.i.m.c.aepson ecotank printer is kinda good
What brand of printer would you suggest? I'm looking for a printer for my illustration works
@Villager_U Nah, its great. I Have an Epson ecotank et-3760 and no issues. It's a bit loud but it prints great
Read about this. Went looking for a laser printer to replace the ink jet that kept plugging 'cause disuse - and yeah, saw Brother didn't include all the nonsense, bought 1 and it's true, I can just use it, no hoop jumping required ✅
Thank you for this video. In my country, a lot of people use Epson Eco tank for large duties. I think this is a good solutions in ink printers
Yep! They give more prints for less money!