The couch videos are unironically my favorite videos you guys make on either channel. Love these, makes me wish you guys had a podcast so we could get more long form thoughts like this.
Here are the Aussie prices assuming base spec at a Sydney dealership (You'll definitely want to option some of these e.g - manual vs auto): - GR86 is 47k (31k USD) - BRZ is 47k (31k USD) - MX-5 is 51k (34k USD) - Mini Clubman JCW is 75k (50k USD) - Golf GTI is 60k (40k USD) - Elantra N, sold as i30 N Sedan is 57k (38k USD) - Chevrolet Camaro can't buy new in Australia - GR Corolla is 69k (46k USD) - Jeep Wrangler Overland is 93k (62k USD) - Subaru WRX 53k (35k USD) - Honda Civic SI can't buy new in Australia, closest is the Type R which is 74k (49k USD) Cheers
I had a 2lt 1le 2017 for 4 years. Best car I've ever had. Used to even get 34 mpg on my 3 hr trip to university. Sold it mid covid with the crazy prices. Put 66k miles on it and broke even
Let me make an overview of the list in this video for Italy (so basically for all of Europe for what matters): - Toyota GR86: Cannot be sold in 2024 due to european active safety regulations. In 2023 anyway 250 were promised to be imported in Italy and never arrived. - Subaru BRZ: It had never been imported in Europe, except for a special version offered at more than 50000 euros. 60 cars imported in italy in total, which makes easier to order a Ferrari. - Mazda MX5: Can be ordered. Starting price is from 37800 euros, but in a trim that does not exists in the US, which does not have LSD. First serious trim starts from 41300 euros. - Mini Cooper JCW: Cannot be ordered anymore. The only way JCW badging remains available is as trim for the standard 2 liter, with 204hp. Even that one cannot be ordered, it's just available on the network and cannot be customized. Starts from 40300 euros. - Volkswagen Golf GTI: Can be ordered, start from 45000 euros. - Hyundai Elantra N: In does not exists in european market. The nearest match is the Hyundai i30 N, which is an hatchback. Of course it cannot be ordered, it's only available in stock theoretically, and I couldn't find any. - Chevrolet Camaro: It KINDA exists in european market. That's an tough call because appears in some listing online, starting from 54000 euros, but it does not appear on Chevrolet website, which sells only the Corvette. - Toyota GR Corolla: it does not exists in european market. The closest match is the GR Yaris, which is impossible to understand how it is prices. It doesn't have a price for the restyling yet, the older version is available only used (for more than 40k). - Jeep Wrangler: available only in standard trim and long wheel base chassis, from 71500 euros. - Subaru WRX: it does not exists in european market. - Honda Civic SI: it does not exists in european market. The only version available is the 2 liter full-hybrid, with 184hp. Which is obviously not fun and starts exactly from 40000 euros. Given that 40000 euros are 43600 US dollars (more or less) all the cars in this list are out of scope, and also, with the exception of the Miata, cannot be bought. So well, european drivers, you have not choice. You have no fun car to buy.
I completely agree with all of your points, EU has basically ruined Fun affordable cars from entering the marker, hence why I snatched a mx-5 ND2 2nd hand tbf but at the highest spec before they stop bringing them over as well. Then there's ferrari producing Dodici Cilindri in their upcoming model 😂😂
That's definitely a big part of it. Plus charging far more for smaller SUVs in particular, just because they're popular. Another thing is that people just demand more features now. My 2000 Camry LE was over $20k with hardly any features outside of a power seat. A base Camry now being about 50% more money 25 years later, loaded with all sorts of features, that's not bad.
@@victreebel170 yeah I agree the features massively increase prices too, some of the features some people don't even want but they lumped in together as "packs" which is very irritating
@@victreebel170 it IS bad because the features used to be an arms race between the manufacturers in order to get customers to buy their cars, now they're just used to jack up the price regardless of if anyone actually wants many of them.
Thank you, James, for being one of the rare TH-camrs who knows the difference between less and fewer. In 2024, this is actually enough to be impressive. Also, my wife says you're not ugly, but she's been watching a lot of Bridgerton so she might be swayed by the accent.
Glad they mentioned the VW. I bought my ‘23 GTI 40th anniversary edition last year for $34K. Thought that was a fantastic deal for what I got. 6 spd, adaptive dampers, digital dash, and nice club sport 19” forged wheels. Plus some 40th graphics on the side of the car. My 40th also has the less frustrating S model infotainment, which I have completely gotten used to and have no issue using now.
As an owner of a 2020 Mustang Ecoboost, I was thinking the same thing. I think when they mentioned the V6 Camero, they should've lumped in the v6 Charger/ Challenger, and the Ecoboost. They're all great options, it's a lot down to personal preference
I see a lot of new cars on the road and always wandered how they could afford them. Then I decided to buy a new car, after saving a decade, negotiating with every car dealer in us, borrowing money due to increased prices, wanting 2800 off, settling for 2000 off, fly 1000 miles to get a deal, staying in hotel on the way back, settling for a car with 1000 miles, filling out the paperwork myself, I finally have a base model new car on SS income. I am very happy!!!
The Civic SI may be the cheapest on the list, but it isn't really the cheapest. I looked at the SI last year and the car-scalping stealership wanted 35k for it. They said it was, "...an exclusive car." I ended up buying an Elantra N on my way to drive a GTI. I got the Elantra N for 34k MSRP. I got the Elantra N for a thousand less than what they wanted for the SI and I should thank that stealership for being greedy bc I am so happy with that Elantra N. It makes me smile every day and I get over 300 whp after only a tune and fixed the wheel hop issue with a lower motor mount.
Good news about the GR Corolla. I bought one a week ago from a dealership in Texas and got it for under MSRP. My budget happened to be $40k so I got the Core with the performance package (Torsen Limited-Slip Differentials and painted brake calipers). Fantastic car! I actually don't mind using it as a daily driver. The ride is a bit stiff so I tend to avoid imperfections in the road that I never thought about before, but since it came with all of the driver assist tech, including the best lane keeping assist that I've ever used, I can still totally use it for my daily commute. At the end of my work day I can take it out to the rural roads and turn off all of those features and have as much fun as I've ever experienced in a car.
@@tannerlinares6849 It handles like it' s on rails. Like I said, it's a pretty great daily commuter. As far as gearing on the freeway, the lower end (2000 RPM) of 6th gear is about 50 MPH, so even without downshifting, acceleration from 75 is still pretty quick. Once I get on the freeway I shift into 6th and pretty much never have to touch the clutch until I exit. Even better, if I do get into traffic and have to downshift, the adaptive cruise control doesn't disengage when I change gears - up or down.
As an Si owner, spend the $800 on a KTuner, pick a tune (TSP, Ktuner base maps or Phearable), run it on MAP 2 and call it a day. Ups the hp and torque to about 220 and remaps the turbo to spool a little earlier and kills the rev hang. It REALLY wakes the car up and honestly should come this way from the factory. I would love to see you guys review one because I think with that 1 relatively inexpensive modification you could not come close to beating this car for the money.
@@waykool698 I don't.. The cost is too high compared to what you can get on the used market. I was in the market for a GR86 not too long ago (they weren't all over dealer lots yet though like they are now), test drove it, and realized that it wasn't as sharp as my ND Miata Club and would just be another 'compromise' vehicle for me.. So I added a 2017 Fiesta ST instead, lol.. Im out the door for less than a new GR86 and have two fun to drive cars instead.. One is much sharper than the other (by design), but the FiST is a proper driver's car as well, even if it is fwd, lol..
Daily: GTI or GR Corolla Weekend / 2nd car: Miata if I lived by the beach but since I’m in the desert: Camaro I’m actually on the search for a c7 grand sport right now too. Maybe I’ll look at the Camaros a bit more…
Miata I'd think is pretty livable in hot temps too? I'm in OH, so def not as hot, my daily is a '19 Bullitt and just got an '07 Miata hardtop. Both are fantastic!
@@richardnavratil9661 Probably, but pretty limited in roof down time due to the heat. That's why I think targa is best of both worlds. (Hopefully) better NVH on the highway with the roof up and I can open it and store it away if I want that convertible experience. That's my thought process at least
Also, I had a 2016 SS Camaro before my GTI and that thing handled super well. It wasn’t a 1LE but it did have the optional 6 piston big brake performance upgrade and Magnetic ride. It didn’t make sense for me to have it as a daily at the time so I sold it. But I’d definitely recommend a Camaro if that’s what you’re looking into!
The Toyota GR 86 is a revelation. It is one of the best driving cars full stop. That lightness, that size, that tight handling and the way how it doesn't snap when you drift but goes into the slide progressively? REVOLUTIONARY. It's truly one of the best cars, I swear by that name, and I preach about it like it's gospel. All of these cars are amazing and I love that everyone can have their own flavor of motoring fun satisfied for a reasonable price where they can reach it, so all of these are the best of the best of the best.
used. As a foreigner from a place where cool cars are basically unattainable, the US used car market is my favorite thing in the world. So many depreciated bargains. Recently got a B8 RS5 for a third of MSRP. Crazy stuff. Almost went for a GR86 as the more sensible choice but I couldn't pass on the V8 monster hahah love the channel, keep up the great work
I got my F56 JCW pre owned with 16k miles for $26,000 and it feels like so much car for the money. 6 speed manual, with the b48 and the JCW exhaust is amazing. Traded in my Civic si for it and haven't looked back since lol
Having purchased a GR86 and taken ownership of it Dec 4th 2023, I can fully agree to the fun of driving it. I also spent a fair amount of time researching potential issues that can occur with it. Most of those issue revolve around the use of the vehicle on a track. Issues with oil starvation, lack of feedback from the gauges to indicate an oil starvation scenario seem to be a primary result in engine failure. Combine that with the oil pickup tube in boxer engines accumulating silicone sealant used in engine assembly being a supporting factor. I am approaching 7k miles on the ODO and so far the engine is not burning oil as some have reported. I think oil burning also goes along with extended periods of tracking the vehicle. That being said, this is my current daily driver and will not be tracked until such time as it is paid for and retired from daily driving. The vehicle is most fun when driven hard because it isn't a powerful vehicle. The OEM tires also allow the rear end to be moved around in hard cornering. The LSD on mine is very quick to lock up and on uneven pavement will cause the rear end to lurch on slow turns, which I'm not certain is a common thing. It may end up being an early failure point of the vehicle, time will tell. Either way, this one is destined for a V8 swap once it is retired from daily driving use.
Yes, free. Literally no one pays for it, at all. Free. Yes. Doctors work for free. Hospitals are built for free. Medicine is created for free. Really, these Canadians are just so friendly that they work for free. Nobody gets any money there. It's just a super country.
@@dougrobinson8602it’s not, it barely works out at anything per person per year, we have lots of issues right now, cost of healthcare pp isn’t one of them lol
I bought a 22 BRZ for right around $30k usd with registration and dealer fees and it has been phenomenal. Set it up with some new wheels and coilovers and it rides so nice. I strongly recommend + there are a ton of catback/exhaust setups to make that flat 4 absolutely sing and if you want there are turbo kits, supercharger setups and so many aftermarket parts and kits it’s amazing
Just because somebody is willing to spend a large sum on something they really want doesn't mean they egree with it. The manufacturer chooses the price, not the consumer.
@@Lost1ntheSauc3 If they buy the car, it means they would rather have the car than the money. If it isn't mutually beneficial, no transaction should occur. If a consumer says "I will buy it no matter the cost" that is an open invitation for the automaker to charge more.
As an owner of a Mk7 GTI, I absolutely love it. It’s not the fastest or the most fun car I’ve owned, but it is my favorite overall car I’ve owned so far. Reliable, practical, good on gas, and with just a tune and better fuel it’s decently quick. Every time I consider training it in I can’t bring myself to go through with it lol. Next car on my list is an ND2 Miata to have on the side of my GTI :)
I have a 2016 Miata Grand Touring. Ive owned it a year and its fantastic. Drove down to tail of the dragon and back of the dragon in March, its so good on turns. Only mod it needs is an upgraded exhaust as its a bit quiet when not wide open
@@danielc1417 Why would you say it sucks? It's the best daily driver, best value, all season performance sedan with a manual transmission that you can buy today.
@@SuzukiKid400 Except you can get the Civic Si and a second set of wheels with winter tires and it’s suddenly a better all-weather performer than the Subaru.. and the insurance, fuel, and reliability will all be in the owner’s favor. Subaru’s open-diff AWD was great 20 years ago. These days traction control can let 2wd cars crawl up icy slopes. If your AWD system isn’t torque vectoring to improve handling, it’s just dead weight adding understeer. Subau fans need to stop fooling themselves.
@@EUC-lid My bad, where are all the rally car civics at? You are joking if you think an si will do better than any Subaru in winter i dgaf winter tires or not, not to mention si is slow af and has a super cheap interior. Subaru's awd system does have active torque vectoring, just doesnt have the sti center diff, still can handle corners and hoon much better than any si. I could understand if your argument was the hyundai thing or the gr carolla but the si is base model trash.
Got my 3LT Camaro for a bit over 40k and I can’t go back to anything else. Comfortable, reliable, surprisingly luxurious, and the sound is perfect. I would hardly compare it to a V8, but I did compare it to other similarly priced cars. It outdid even luxury vehicles like Audi and Mercedes. To this day, I haven’t found anything I’d like over it. However, now that it’s discontinued I have started looking at EVs.
@@bladi1998 I’m almost at 20k miles and 2 years of ownership, only issue that just popped up is a bad EVAP detection pump, but it’s covered under warranty 👍🏼👍🏼 great daily driver, and highway driving the gas mileage is incredible
6:20 - Adjusting for inflation is fine but if you're going to do that you also have to adjust for where the car sits in the food chain. In 1991 the Miata was on par with most sporty (not hot) hatchbacks and saloons and could hang with a lot of things around a track. It also looked ultra cool with pop up lights and all the rest. The new one seems good but I wouldn't say its at the same level. Now its more entry level and seems closer to where things like the kei cars useds to be. That beign bad/good is debatable in itself because small, light cars are almost always great fun but they shouldn't cost the same as the ones which need more putting into them to make in the first place.
So they were stupid to kill a car that didn't sell. Got it... Like it or not, they're in business to make money. Obviously, if it made Ford money, they would still be selling it. We, as enthusiasts might not like the decision, but it was smart to stop selling them over here.
Even though my Mustang Ecoboost didn't make the list, I still enjoy it. Not the fastest car and the steering is dead but it looks great and wakes up with a few mods. Super daily-able and capable plus lighter than the V8 and easier to insure. That said the new one doesn't come in a manual like my 2015 is...
I have an Elantra N and I totally agree about the clutch bite point and stalling. It's especially true in normal mode when the throttle response is a bit slower. I have for sure stalled a few times in places I'd be embarrassed to say 😂
Big thanks for brining up the V6 Camaro. Hope you guys do a review on one! I have been saying for years that its a great performance car when compared to other performance cars in its price range, especially if you want something with RWD. People are so caught up comparing it to the V8 Camaro, which is stupid. They never compare it against the GTI, BRZ, WRX, Elantra N, Miata, etc. All of thosenother cars occupy the same price range with varying levels of practicality. For whatever reason the V6 is only compared to the faster (V8) car in every damn discussion. Its like trying to talk about a Civic Si and everyone compares it to the Type R. Or comparing a WRX to an STI. Or comparing a GTI to Gilf R. Or comparing a M340i to an M3.
that's because i would always feel some kind of way if I had a non-v8 pony/muscle car... immediate "I should've just saved for a few more months and got the v8....." It's worth it for the sound alone lol.. imo Edit: I applied this logic when I got my Scat Pack manual back in 2018.. I knew the R/T wouldn't be enough for me, lol.. Needed the 6.4
@@dre32pitt You could apply that logic with any car that has a faster version though, yeah. Like keep saving money and buy a Civic Type R instead of a Civic Si. Or buy a 911 turbo instead of a normal 911. But it's only the American pony car community where people routinely get shit on for having the 'slower' version of the car. The funny this is the V6 and Turbo 4 Camaros and Mustangs aren't even slow. They are only 'slow' compared to the V8s.
@@Maljey It's because the other examples didn't add 2-4 cylinders and sound 5x better.. The Si and Type R are both 4 poppers.. one just has more power (and sounds extremely mid.. i owned one for a bit) and the other, id argue, the 911 turbo sounds worse than the NA 911 because turbos always muffler exhaust noise (their design makes it that way).. To me it's like going to a renown steakhouse and ordering seafood.. You're not going there for what they're known for, lol.. Samething with the American muscle cars.. The only reasons the 4s n 6s were introduced was for the rental fleet and CAFE standards (car manufacturer's have to avg a certain amount of MPG across their entire range.. the 4s n 6s brings that number up).. While I agree, the 4s n 6s are capable, it's not what you want in one of those cars, imo..
@@dre32pitt Yeah, but the cylinder count is largely irrelevant besides the added sound. If someone actually cares about the performance of the cars, then you still see large gaps in performance when comparing a M340i to a M3, a 911 base to a 911 turbo, a Golf GTI to a Golf R, a Civic Si to a Civic Type R. Its no different than comparing a V6 Camaro to a V8 when you're strictly looking at performance numbers. That's why I say comparing a V6 to a V8 is wack. People can't let the V6 stand on its own against other performance cars in its price range.
@@Maljey The sound makes a BIG difference for me. Like it's #2 behind driving feel for my personal car 'checklist'.. Im not doubting the performance differences, im just stating what most Americans thought process on this is.. At least for me, at this age, it's not about perfornamce #s.. it's about how the car feels, sounds, and most of all, how it makes ME feel.. And knowing myself, I know better than to get a 4 or 6 popper muscle car because Ill just want the V8 instead, so by going after the V8 initially, im actually saving myself $$.. at least that's the mental gymnastics I do, lol (everyone does this for multiple things in their life, whether you know it or not.. some may call it 'justification', but it's all mental gymnastics, lol)
Throw a couple mods at it and it'll be an even more fun daily. I've got an EX-L (arthritic knee + city traffic = no manual for me) and even that is fun with a tune and stickier tires than Firestone OEM ones. I love mine too.
When publishing a video depending on size of your channel and your level of relevance on TH-cam, you get tools like the one that allows you to decide where to place ads on the video specifically. So it likely wasn't too much of a coincidence. 😂
My first year 2019 Veloster N with the same drivetrain as the Elantra N manual has held up purty good. Hasn't been a Corolla reliable, but no performance car is, though all repairs have been covered at no cost. Brakes and tires are expensive, but otherwise, maintenance is cheap. Dealership experience is hit or miss depending on where u go, but generally, cheap dealership experience. I'm overall happy with my long term ownership and surprised that 5 yrs and 68k miles later no skweaks, no rattles, and suspension/rack and pinion steering feel is pretty tight and feels nearly as when new!
The Civic and the BrZ/86 twins are the best looking cars in the list. Personally, the Civic takes the cake. Drop it on some nice coils and WOW looks so damn good. Just wish it had more power. Guess you can stretch your budget and get the Type R
I'd like to know why Ecoboost Mustang for them didn't make the list. For me the Ecoboost now start around 30 to 31k US. Once you put the performance package on it your like 35 to 38k OTD. Its a lot of money when for less you can buy a camaro and the alpha platform or a lighter weight better handling car like the 86 or BRZ.
To the Hyundai Elantra N comment about aging, I'd like to say, I daily an 18 Elantra Sport 1.6T DCT, and it has impressively not aged "like a Hyundai". I'm pleased to report zero creaks or noises. The doors still close with an acceptable "thunk". It's a solid little car.
Well... no unexpected noises. The tiny turbo still makes Hoover noises, and the exhaust still grumbles and burbles on a cold start more pleasantly than it has any right to.
Those Elantra Sport and the Kia Forte Koup Turbo were one of the best cars HMG ever built. I've owned both and not a single problem in more 95,000 miles of very hard driving. That 1.6T can take some abuse :)
My dream was to buy an STI, but since they dont make them anymore and I really hate the design of the new WRX I was excited for the GR Corolla when it got revealed. But its too expensive for me in Canada. Recently I ended up test driving a friends BRZ and instantly fell in love. It felt like you were going quick even when driving regular speeds. The Gr86/BRZ has been where my heart has been and i hope to get one in a year or two
Get a used STI?? If you get a 2019+, you get the stouter block by default (2018 STI Type RA longblock).. I had a Type RA for a bit.. dealer made me an offer to buy it that I couldn't refuse a couple of years ago when prices were mad, lol.. $45.5k (25k miles)
@@dre32pitt I've been considering this option! The only part that keeps me away from this is that by the time I'll be ready (2025/26) most STIs will be fairly used, and I worry about the reliability of used STIs being driven hard all the time with their head gasket concerns. Which is why I was planning on getting one brand new, so I knew how it's been treated. Unless I'm ignorant and the 2019+ is a safer bet
@@TheUnkindledGuardian There will be 2019+ cars available that haven't been driven into the ground.. You'll probably still pay $35k-ish for one of those.. Find a low mile example that's been babied.. The stocker, the better (CBE is okay, lol). These STI's aren't like a Honda or Toyota.. They have more of a German feel/approach to maintenance and preventative maintenance.. You gotta be johnny on the spot with your fluid changes and monitoring temps.. The headgasket thing isnt as big of an issue on the turbo'd EJ's.. Most of hte failures, from my experience, are folks modding the car without proper supporting mods (AOS, 4th cylinder cooling mod, etc..).. They treat it like a B18 or some shit, lololo.. cant do that with these motors.
I was in the same boat and ended up buying a turbo Mazda cx-30, a 250hp awd hatchback with great ground clearance and a bunch of luxury features. Rwd is not fun in Canadas winters, make sure to budget for studded tires if you’re going that route.
@@Nathan-jw1qn STI is AWD.. not sure where rwd statement was coming from, lol.. And the cx-30 is not comparable to the vehicles on this list.. No manual option and it's center of gravity is another knock against it being 'fun'.
As an EN owner, 50k miles and only now has the first issue popped up and that’s because of a high boost tune. The BOV solenoid failed. However overall the car has been great in terms of fun and reliability
@@debestcanadian SavageGeese is slightly better, imo.. more track and engineering focused.. but these two beat the pants off of that other canadian duo... they're too goddamn nice lmao
@@dre32pitt Agreed that the guys at Savagegeese do a much better job at presenting the technical side. I will admit, though, that I just prefer a more "entertaining" presentation (same as Top Gear always was in its heyday). And yes, I also agree that Thomas and James have this formula much better worked out than the Straight Pipes.
Finally! As a half white half korean guy my mom was always annoyed when people mispronounced Hyundai (her last name is Hyun), so it’s good to see people actually getting it right
Guys, why wasn't the Mazda 3 manual hatchback not mentioned. It has about the same power as a civic si. I really would love a comparison between the 2.
@@GingkoMister while there's some truth in that, the 3 is about 9/10th of fun level that the SI offers with a more luxurious cabin. An exhaust mod with some grippy tires can change its demeanor.
After mark ups (in Canada at least) a civic SI and an Elantra N are basically the same price. Which seems like a bad deal on the civic’s part (and I’ve been a Honda fan boy growing up) 😂 I just got a 2005 Mini Cooper as my second ever car, learnt to drive a manual in the last two months and I’m totally sold so whatever my next car ends up being will likely be a manual as well. What you guys said about it feeling “square” is so pin on haha. I was thinking that last month going around traffic circles 😆
Just got THE Civic Si last year. Ccoming from a first gen 86 chassis, it's not as fun, but it's a good compromise for having all the extra usability of a Civic.
I'd like to confirm that an ad showed up at @11:50 immediately after James said..." we'll put an Ad there, LOL; maybe youtubes algorithms will figure it out."
Nice! Completely agree with TH's list👍 From my experience for that amount of money I would get a well taken care used 6th gen Camaro SS 6MT. I tested the BRZ/GR86, Elantra N with the DCT and 6MT and the WRX. My take that the best one for the money was the oustanding performing Elantra N in which ever transmission, followed by the great handling BRZ/GR86 twins. The WRX drove great but I hated the very thight uncomfortable Recaro seats.
My money is ready. Recently sold my GR Corolla after a little less than a year for only 5% depreciation, took the equity I had from my previous trade and am now ready to go! Low balling Subaru dealerships on leftover 23 WRXs because of the finance incentives has been fun but nobody is biting on $5K under sticker despite them sitting for 6-8 months 😂.
The elantra N is plenty capable in the snow. I live in Canada, the e-lsd with snow tires is more than enough grip. For engine reliability, I can confidently say it's the most overbuilt engine at it's price point. Its not using the theta 2 economy engine (which is wildely problematic), it uses the motorsports derived theta 2i. We're still really pushing the limits of the platform. A tune puts you around 350whp super reliably, the platform is more fuel limited than anything. On meth, it pushes 400whp solidly. It's a great engine, used in their tcr cars.
With my EN (on all-weather Kumho) I've gone some hills that AWD with snows would slide back down. Reason being, the car has the dynamic to keep the momentum going (for the brave at heart).
Unfortunately, that's not very much long-term data. But once they hired Audi and BMW engineers, everything improved there. But we still won't really know for another 5-10 years.
@@mediocreman2 the theta 2i didn't debut on the Elantra N. It debuted back in 2017 with the 2018 i30N. There's been almost a decade of real world data to show that it's a very very reliable engine. I can't attach pictures but if you saw what the rod looks like from these engines it's hilariously overbuilt Sxth element engineering (does a ton of analysis, aftermarket parts and tuning for both the GR Corolla and the EN) has stated that the N's engine is definitely capable of holding more power than the corollas 1.6t. They estimate 450-500whp on stock internals no problem to be daily driven and abused. The economy theta 2 2.0t in the optima's, Genesis coupes and SUV's used to blow up if you looked at them funny lol.
@@mediocreman2 EN would be a great mule to effect the brands reliability issues On a positive note, after fueling-up at Shell (on Richmond St), took it up the DVP to Bloor and then to Greenwood Park. Did 5.9L/100km on that short mixed trip...The good engines tends to improve on consumption as they age.
1:03 it is mainly governments to blame. New cars need to adhere to so many rules and regulations that prices are automatically pushed up. I am talking about mostly safety equipment that has become mandatory over the years and also emissions standards.
Thomas- You don't realize how great the Camaro's 3.6 V6 is when paired with the manual. It revs so good and sounds better than it should. Have you ever driven a manual v6 Camaro sixth gen?
I can only speak for Hyundai in europe, since I've owned a 2011 model and a 2021 model: They have improved themselves BY A LOT! And I know exactly what you mean by the Hyundai effect, where after a long period the plastic in the car starts rattling, which is a solid concern, I get that. Or nowadays that the wear and tear on certain components can be really high, but they got you covered with their 5 year warranty, expandable to 8 (yes they actually replace these for free, if the car was not tempered with in a significant way and yes you can buy tuning parts from Hyundai which also get covered by warranty like a fricking intake system which goes sutututu) But how I see it, it's like the Mustang where it's not necessarily the cars and more the owners fault of it's reputation. One factor is the target audience of these cars, secondly it is kinda what the car wants you to do with it. Because the cars are great, I am not gonna question that, but it's the certain quirks that come with it.
Best new car and performance car under 40k its a GTI. Easily. Nothing has a better chassis, and nothing can split the personalities better. Also manual for the win.
Fun fact. I'm an engineer at the company that designed and built the "Bezel-less" rear view mirror for the Mx-5. as well as almost all other cars' mirrors.
The Elantra N, Kona N have proven to be very strong engines, even modded to make well over 400+ WHP. Since 2022 the 2.0 Theta is the last interation of the engine and they went all out from larger turbo, to stronger casting on the block and other minor changes for NVH and reliability.
I've been running a SXTH stage 2 tune on my FBO EN with no issues. Doesn't seem that uncommon from what I see online with others' tuned ENs. (Thomas, please get one!)
45k miles of pure abuse on my Kona N, hasn't skipped a beat. Multiple cross country road trips, hours and hours of runs on places like Tail of the Dragon, etc. Zero issues whatsoever and has been nothing but pure enjoyment to own and drive. The N cars are absolutely fantastic and I'm a massive critic of cars, and have owned and driven a fair amount of other sporty cars in various configurations.
I love a little Throttle Couch
Babe wake up, new series title just dropped
That's my new favorite pet name for the show, close behind "Thortle Horse" 😂
Throttle Crotch?
Throttle Cooch.
Give the cooch a good throttling. Vroom vroom.
I've only just realised that James' last name is Englishman in Dutch, and Thomas' last name is Holland. It's like these 2 are made for one another.
I mean, where does Thomas fit in with all of this?😅
I only just realized that there is no fun new car for under 40k in Holland....
@@RRSmurf I'm an idiot x_x
@RRSmurf Hmm... well, maybe the connection with Thomas and the Dutch are that he's never complained about being too tall. Lol
Engelsmann in german means angelsman,
The couch videos are unironically my favorite videos you guys make on either channel. Love these, makes me wish you guys had a podcast so we could get more long form thoughts like this.
This is more fun than a podcast honestly
Throttle house is only watched on my TV. No small screen treatment for their videos. Not even these couch ones, they are the best 🤩
Think this is it bro
My second favorite type of couch "films"
yup.. right behind the tim couch highlight video from the late 90s
fellow blues clues enjoyer
Men of culture
Links to your fav pls
Aye yo 😂😂😂
Here are the Aussie prices assuming base spec at a Sydney dealership (You'll definitely want to option some of these e.g - manual vs auto):
- GR86 is 47k (31k USD)
- BRZ is 47k (31k USD)
- MX-5 is 51k (34k USD)
- Mini Clubman JCW is 75k (50k USD)
- Golf GTI is 60k (40k USD)
- Elantra N, sold as i30 N Sedan is 57k (38k USD)
- Chevrolet Camaro can't buy new in Australia
- GR Corolla is 69k (46k USD)
- Jeep Wrangler Overland is 93k (62k USD)
- Subaru WRX 53k (35k USD)
- Honda Civic SI can't buy new in Australia, closest is the Type R which is 74k (49k USD)
Cheers
As a bonus, Mustang EcoBoost costs 72k (48k USD)
Oof! You guys really get burned on the US/UK cars! :O
Base spec GR86 is 104k CAD in Denmark 🥲
A new MX-5 starts at 35k€ (= 38k USD) in Finland. A Golf GTI is over 50k USD. Got too depressed to look up any more.
Am I wrong when I say that the taxes are already built into the price there? In the US, the taxes and fees aren't calculated until the end.
I had a 2lt 1le 2017 for 4 years. Best car I've ever had. Used to even get 34 mpg on my 3 hr trip to university. Sold it mid covid with the crazy prices. Put 66k miles on it and broke even
You're part of the problem
@@quentonmillstid850 mfw market forces😡
@@quentonmillstid850yeah blame the consumer not the industry lol
Let me make an overview of the list in this video for Italy (so basically for all of Europe for what matters):
- Toyota GR86: Cannot be sold in 2024 due to european active safety regulations. In 2023 anyway 250 were promised to be imported in Italy and never arrived.
- Subaru BRZ: It had never been imported in Europe, except for a special version offered at more than 50000 euros. 60 cars imported in italy in total, which makes easier to order a Ferrari.
- Mazda MX5: Can be ordered. Starting price is from 37800 euros, but in a trim that does not exists in the US, which does not have LSD. First serious trim starts from 41300 euros.
- Mini Cooper JCW: Cannot be ordered anymore. The only way JCW badging remains available is as trim for the standard 2 liter, with 204hp. Even that one cannot be ordered, it's just available on the network and cannot be customized. Starts from 40300 euros.
- Volkswagen Golf GTI: Can be ordered, start from 45000 euros.
- Hyundai Elantra N: In does not exists in european market. The nearest match is the Hyundai i30 N, which is an hatchback. Of course it cannot be ordered, it's only available in stock theoretically, and I couldn't find any.
- Chevrolet Camaro: It KINDA exists in european market. That's an tough call because appears in some listing online, starting from 54000 euros, but it does not appear on Chevrolet website, which sells only the Corvette.
- Toyota GR Corolla: it does not exists in european market. The closest match is the GR Yaris, which is impossible to understand how it is prices. It doesn't have a price for the restyling yet, the older version is available only used (for more than 40k).
- Jeep Wrangler: available only in standard trim and long wheel base chassis, from 71500 euros.
- Subaru WRX: it does not exists in european market.
- Honda Civic SI: it does not exists in european market. The only version available is the 2 liter full-hybrid, with 184hp. Which is obviously not fun and starts exactly from 40000 euros.
Given that 40000 euros are 43600 US dollars (more or less) all the cars in this list are out of scope, and also, with the exception of the Miata, cannot be bought.
So well, european drivers, you have not choice. You have no fun car to buy.
europeans ruined so much with their fake-ass regulations that this feels kinda like karma
The evenings must fly past at your place.
@@gregsheppard1457 no man it's just autism :)
I completely agree with all of your points, EU has basically ruined Fun affordable cars from entering the marker, hence why I snatched a mx-5 ND2 2nd hand tbf but at the highest spec before they stop bringing them over as well. Then there's ferrari producing Dodici Cilindri in their upcoming model 😂😂
That's really a shame, I thought the USA's regulations were bad but that's just sad.
The main problem is no ones wages have appropriately adjusted for inflation, that's the main issue lmao
That's definitely a big part of it. Plus charging far more for smaller SUVs in particular, just because they're popular.
Another thing is that people just demand more features now. My 2000 Camry LE was over $20k with hardly any features outside of a power seat. A base Camry now being about 50% more money 25 years later, loaded with all sorts of features, that's not bad.
@@victreebel170 yeah I agree the features massively increase prices too, some of the features some people don't even want but they lumped in together as "packs" which is very irritating
This is the truth 1000% and nobody even knows it
@@victreebel170 it IS bad because the features used to be an arms race between the manufacturers in order to get customers to buy their cars, now they're just used to jack up the price regardless of if anyone actually wants many of them.
100% in fact, my income has gone down as "bonuses" have decreased every year while base pay has only increased 7.5% over 5 years
It played an ad right when you said it! 😂😂
What the hell is an ad? Get an adblock browser extension
@@hhaste haha I feel okay taking some time to support them
@@hhaste what ad blocker do you use? Havent they blocked the adblockers?
@@aralskywalker They tried and gave up, i use ublock origin, never had any issues.
@@hhasteI don’t mind TH-cam Premium
"It's not crazy, because adjusted for Inflation...."
B-b-but, Inflation *Is* crazy
Facts say otherwise. Inflation 2.7% canada 3.3% usa vs wage growth of 4.7% in both canada and usa.
Thank you, James, for being one of the rare TH-camrs who knows the difference between less and fewer. In 2024, this is actually enough to be impressive. Also, my wife says you're not ugly, but she's been watching a lot of Bridgerton so she might be swayed by the accent.
That ending was perfect!🤣
Yall are dating right?
casting couch
Yes
Which is the top?
Thomas is the bear and James is the otter.
@@BlackWater6937 this is an absurd question, it's obviously Thomas, like think about that jamesussy bro
Glad they mentioned the VW. I bought my ‘23 GTI 40th anniversary edition last year for $34K. Thought that was a fantastic deal for what I got. 6 spd, adaptive dampers, digital dash, and nice club sport 19” forged wheels. Plus some 40th graphics on the side of the car. My 40th also has the less frustrating S model infotainment, which I have completely gotten used to and have no issue using now.
James: "It's a rocket!" 🚀🤣
brz/86. Don't need to go any further. I own an older one with 73k on it, made in Japan and Zero issues !
The ending was brilliant 😂😂
But why not the mustang? 😂
🧐 yeah why not
As an owner of a 2020 Mustang Ecoboost, I was thinking the same thing. I think when they mentioned the V6 Camero, they should've lumped in the v6 Charger/ Challenger, and the Ecoboost. They're all great options, it's a lot down to personal preference
I see a lot of new cars on the road and always wandered how they could afford them. Then I decided to buy a new car, after saving a decade, negotiating with every car dealer in us, borrowing money due to increased prices, wanting 2800 off, settling for 2000 off, fly 1000 miles to get a deal, staying in hotel on the way back, settling for a car with 1000 miles, filling out the paperwork myself, I finally have a base model new car on SS income. I am very happy!!!
The Civic SI may be the cheapest on the list, but it isn't really the cheapest. I looked at the SI last year and the car-scalping stealership wanted 35k for it. They said it was, "...an exclusive car." I ended up buying an Elantra N on my way to drive a GTI. I got the Elantra N for 34k MSRP. I got the Elantra N for a thousand less than what they wanted for the SI and I should thank that stealership for being greedy bc I am so happy with that Elantra N. It makes me smile every day and I get over 300 whp after only a tune and fixed the wheel hop issue with a lower motor mount.
Good news about the GR Corolla. I bought one a week ago from a dealership in Texas and got it for under MSRP. My budget happened to be $40k so I got the Core with the performance package (Torsen Limited-Slip Differentials and painted brake calipers). Fantastic car! I actually don't mind using it as a daily driver. The ride is a bit stiff so I tend to avoid imperfections in the road that I never thought about before, but since it came with all of the driver assist tech, including the best lane keeping assist that I've ever used, I can still totally use it for my daily commute. At the end of my work day I can take it out to the rural roads and turn off all of those features and have as much fun as I've ever experienced in a car.
How does the car handle 75-80 MPH Freeways? Particularly the gearing?
@@tannerlinares6849 It handles like it' s on rails. Like I said, it's a pretty great daily commuter. As far as gearing on the freeway, the lower end (2000 RPM) of 6th gear is about 50 MPH, so even without downshifting, acceleration from 75 is still pretty quick. Once I get on the freeway I shift into 6th and pretty much never have to touch the clutch until I exit. Even better, if I do get into traffic and have to downshift, the adaptive cruise control doesn't disengage when I change gears - up or down.
As an Si owner, spend the $800 on a KTuner, pick a tune (TSP, Ktuner base maps or Phearable), run it on MAP 2 and call it a day. Ups the hp and torque to about 220 and remaps the turbo to spool a little earlier and kills the rev hang. It REALLY wakes the car up and honestly should come this way from the factory. I would love to see you guys review one because I think with that 1 relatively inexpensive modification you could not come close to beating this car for the money.
Warranty tho
Literally one second after you said ‘ad’ I had to watch through an ad. Thanks guys😅
What the hell is an ad? Get an adblock browser extension
@@hhasteso you don’t want them to get paid? Despicable leeches
YT creators get to chose the position for the ads dude.
As a long time owner of a Golf GTI I can confirm that the GTI is one of the cars of all time
Incoherent edited comment gets more likes than I ever do. Checks out
I would love to see this as a 40K used cars :) or 55K CAD....just saying ;)
People want new cars.
That's a 4-part mini-series, lol.
@@waykool698 I don't.. The cost is too high compared to what you can get on the used market. I was in the market for a GR86 not too long ago (they weren't all over dealer lots yet though like they are now), test drove it, and realized that it wasn't as sharp as my ND Miata Club and would just be another 'compromise' vehicle for me..
So I added a 2017 Fiesta ST instead, lol.. Im out the door for less than a new GR86 and have two fun to drive cars instead.. One is much sharper than the other (by design), but the FiST is a proper driver's car as well, even if it is fwd, lol..
I agree
Used car market is still bad
Daily: GTI or GR Corolla
Weekend / 2nd car: Miata if I lived by the beach but since I’m in the desert: Camaro
I’m actually on the search for a c7 grand sport right now too. Maybe I’ll look at the Camaros a bit more…
Miata I'd think is pretty livable in hot temps too?
I'm in OH, so def not as hot, my daily is a '19 Bullitt and just got an '07 Miata hardtop. Both are fantastic!
@@richardnavratil9661 Probably, but pretty limited in roof down time due to the heat. That's why I think targa is best of both worlds. (Hopefully) better NVH on the highway with the roof up and I can open it and store it away if I want that convertible experience. That's my thought process at least
@@wavemusicthere is a solid top Miata that exists from factory. Look into the MX-5 RF
I daily a GTI and it’s perfect for almost anything you wanna do. I’m currently looking into adding an ND Miata soon as a 2nd vehicle :)
Also, I had a 2016 SS Camaro before my GTI and that thing handled super well. It wasn’t a 1LE but it did have the optional 6 piston big brake performance upgrade and Magnetic ride.
It didn’t make sense for me to have it as a daily at the time so I sold it. But I’d definitely recommend a Camaro if that’s what you’re looking into!
And I‘m James!
Truly one of the james of all time
The best James!!! Up there with James from team rocket 😂
The Toyota GR 86 is a revelation. It is one of the best driving cars full stop. That lightness, that size, that tight handling and the way how it doesn't snap when you drift but goes into the slide progressively? REVOLUTIONARY.
It's truly one of the best cars, I swear by that name, and I preach about it like it's gospel.
All of these cars are amazing and I love that everyone can have their own flavor of motoring fun satisfied for a reasonable price where they can reach it, so all of these are the best of the best of the best.
I can't take someone who says "full stop" seriously
@@janoycresnova9156 .
reliability curses this platform as long as subaru is involved.
Yep. My most fun car. Ever.
Lol you sound like you haven't driven anything but a GR86 😅
used. As a foreigner from a place where cool cars are basically unattainable, the US used car market is my favorite thing in the world. So many depreciated bargains. Recently got a B8 RS5 for a third of MSRP. Crazy stuff. Almost went for a GR86 as the more sensible choice but I couldn't pass on the V8 monster hahah love the channel, keep up the great work
I got my F56 JCW pre owned with 16k miles for $26,000 and it feels like so much car for the money. 6 speed manual, with the b48 and the JCW exhaust is amazing. Traded in my Civic si for it and haven't looked back since lol
Having purchased a GR86 and taken ownership of it Dec 4th 2023, I can fully agree to the fun of driving it. I also spent a fair amount of time researching potential issues that can occur with it. Most of those issue revolve around the use of the vehicle on a track. Issues with oil starvation, lack of feedback from the gauges to indicate an oil starvation scenario seem to be a primary result in engine failure. Combine that with the oil pickup tube in boxer engines accumulating silicone sealant used in engine assembly being a supporting factor. I am approaching 7k miles on the ODO and so far the engine is not burning oil as some have reported. I think oil burning also goes along with extended periods of tracking the vehicle. That being said, this is my current daily driver and will not be tracked until such time as it is paid for and retired from daily driving. The vehicle is most fun when driven hard because it isn't a powerful vehicle. The OEM tires also allow the rear end to be moved around in hard cornering. The LSD on mine is very quick to lock up and on uneven pavement will cause the rear end to lurch on slow turns, which I'm not certain is a common thing. It may end up being an early failure point of the vehicle, time will tell. Either way, this one is destined for a V8 swap once it is retired from daily driving use.
"free healthcare" had me crying.
“Free”… once you can get any
It's not free. Their taxation is insane, just like their Prime Minister.
Yes, free. Literally no one pays for it, at all. Free. Yes. Doctors work for free. Hospitals are built for free. Medicine is created for free. Really, these Canadians are just so friendly that they work for free. Nobody gets any money there. It's just a super country.
Nothing is free. Ever.
@@dougrobinson8602it’s not, it barely works out at anything per person per year, we have lots of issues right now, cost of healthcare pp isn’t one of them lol
I bought a 22 BRZ for right around $30k usd with registration and dealer fees and it has been phenomenal. Set it up with some new wheels and coilovers and it rides so nice. I strongly recommend + there are a ton of catback/exhaust setups to make that flat 4 absolutely sing and if you want there are turbo kits, supercharger setups and so many aftermarket parts and kits it’s amazing
I love these videos, please more. Lists and deep thought tracks etc.
The GR Corolla was 56k at the dealership where I purchased my GR86 for 32k out the door. No argument could be made to me to select that over the GR86.
I love that outro, great work gentlemen
Long time viewer here - I’d watch one of these every week if you guys put them out!
Thomas and James: These car companies are despicable for charging so much.
Also Thomas and James: Spend a little more if you can.
Still the company's fault if they're overcharging for the good stuff.
@@Lost1ntheSauc3 It's not overcharging if the buyer determines it's worth that much.
Just because somebody is willing to spend a large sum on something they really want doesn't mean they egree with it. The manufacturer chooses the price, not the consumer.
@@Lost1ntheSauc3 If they buy the car, it means they would rather have the car than the money. If it isn't mutually beneficial, no transaction should occur. If a consumer says "I will buy it no matter the cost" that is an open invitation for the automaker to charge more.
Man I hate arguing with idiots
You can't beat these videos. Couch talks format + affordable fun topic are the best!
As an owner of a Mk7 GTI, I absolutely love it. It’s not the fastest or the most fun car I’ve owned, but it is my favorite overall car I’ve owned so far. Reliable, practical, good on gas, and with just a tune and better fuel it’s decently quick. Every time I consider training it in I can’t bring myself to go through with it lol. Next car on my list is an ND2 Miata to have on the side of my GTI :)
That would be a pretty solid two car garage.
I have a 2016 Miata Grand Touring. Ive owned it a year and its fantastic. Drove down to tail of the dragon and back of the dragon in March, its so good on turns. Only mod it needs is an upgraded exhaust as its a bit quiet when not wide open
I’m thrilled you included the WRX … it deserves it!
Except it sucks!
@@danielc1417 Why would you say it sucks? It's the best daily driver, best value, all season performance sedan with a manual transmission that you can buy today.
@@SuzukiKid400 Except you can get the Civic Si and a second set of wheels with winter tires and it’s suddenly a better all-weather performer than the Subaru.. and the insurance, fuel, and reliability will all be in the owner’s favor.
Subaru’s open-diff AWD was great 20 years ago. These days traction control can let 2wd cars crawl up icy slopes. If your AWD system isn’t torque vectoring to improve handling, it’s just dead weight adding understeer. Subau fans need to stop fooling themselves.
@@EUC-lid My bad, where are all the rally car civics at? You are joking if you think an si will do better than any Subaru in winter i dgaf winter tires or not, not to mention si is slow af and has a super cheap interior. Subaru's awd system does have active torque vectoring, just doesnt have the sti center diff, still can handle corners and hoon much better than any si. I could understand if your argument was the hyundai thing or the gr carolla but the si is base model trash.
@@EUC-lidI guess no one has told you about all the issues those shitty 1.5 turbos have been having...
Got my 3LT Camaro for a bit over 40k and I can’t go back to anything else. Comfortable, reliable, surprisingly luxurious, and the sound is perfect. I would hardly compare it to a V8, but I did compare it to other similarly priced cars. It outdid even luxury vehicles like Audi and Mercedes. To this day, I haven’t found anything I’d like over it. However, now that it’s discontinued I have started looking at EVs.
Have you two considered doing a long form podcast?
They created a subscription Discord club but no idea how it's doing.
Everyone and their grandmother is doing podcasts now. It's so oversaturated.
It would work well, especially when they film this type of content.
@@janoycresnova9156 quite unlike TH-cam which is nothing but Greenfield ;p
Relationship...I mean podcast
I’ve loved my MK8 GTI SE, tuning it really woke it up, daily my daily for two years now and it’s awesome. (Convenient too)
I just bought one yesterday! How’s the reliability been?
@@bladi1998 I’m almost at 20k miles and 2 years of ownership, only issue that just popped up is a bad EVAP detection pump, but it’s covered under warranty 👍🏼👍🏼 great daily driver, and highway driving the gas mileage is incredible
6:20 - Adjusting for inflation is fine but if you're going to do that you also have to adjust for where the car sits in the food chain.
In 1991 the Miata was on par with most sporty (not hot) hatchbacks and saloons and could hang with a lot of things around a track. It also looked ultra cool with pop up lights and all the rest.
The new one seems good but I wouldn't say its at the same level. Now its more entry level and seems closer to where things like the kei cars useds to be.
That beign bad/good is debatable in itself because small, light cars are almost always great fun but they shouldn't cost the same as the ones which need more putting into them to make in the first place.
My daily here in Toronto is a 2017 Focus RS and nothing has really inspired me to trade it in for anything. The 350hp AWD is just too fun.
Ford was so stupid to kill that car. I hate that no domestic brands make good cars anymore.
So they were stupid to kill a car that didn't sell. Got it... Like it or not, they're in business to make money. Obviously, if it made Ford money, they would still be selling it. We, as enthusiasts might not like the decision, but it was smart to stop selling them over here.
Even though my Mustang Ecoboost didn't make the list, I still enjoy it. Not the fastest car and the steering is dead but it looks great and wakes up with a few mods. Super daily-able and capable plus lighter than the V8 and easier to insure. That said the new one doesn't come in a manual like my 2015 is...
Has more horsepower than anything on this list too
My 2020 Ecoboost has fantastic auto insurance coverage with State Farm, and i only pay $80/mo!
I have an Elantra N and I totally agree about the clutch bite point and stalling. It's especially true in normal mode when the throttle response is a bit slower. I have for sure stalled a few times in places I'd be embarrassed to say 😂
Big thanks for brining up the V6 Camaro. Hope you guys do a review on one! I have been saying for years that its a great performance car when compared to other performance cars in its price range, especially if you want something with RWD.
People are so caught up comparing it to the V8 Camaro, which is stupid. They never compare it against the GTI, BRZ, WRX, Elantra N, Miata, etc. All of thosenother cars occupy the same price range with varying levels of practicality.
For whatever reason the V6 is only compared to the faster (V8) car in every damn discussion. Its like trying to talk about a Civic Si and everyone compares it to the Type R. Or comparing a WRX to an STI. Or comparing a GTI to Gilf R. Or comparing a M340i to an M3.
that's because i would always feel some kind of way if I had a non-v8 pony/muscle car... immediate "I should've just saved for a few more months and got the v8....." It's worth it for the sound alone lol.. imo
Edit: I applied this logic when I got my Scat Pack manual back in 2018.. I knew the R/T wouldn't be enough for me, lol.. Needed the 6.4
@@dre32pitt You could apply that logic with any car that has a faster version though, yeah. Like keep saving money and buy a Civic Type R instead of a Civic Si. Or buy a 911 turbo instead of a normal 911.
But it's only the American pony car community where people routinely get shit on for having the 'slower' version of the car. The funny this is the V6 and Turbo 4 Camaros and Mustangs aren't even slow. They are only 'slow' compared to the V8s.
@@Maljey It's because the other examples didn't add 2-4 cylinders and sound 5x better.. The Si and Type R are both 4 poppers.. one just has more power (and sounds extremely mid.. i owned one for a bit) and the other, id argue, the 911 turbo sounds worse than the NA 911 because turbos always muffler exhaust noise (their design makes it that way)..
To me it's like going to a renown steakhouse and ordering seafood.. You're not going there for what they're known for, lol.. Samething with the American muscle cars..
The only reasons the 4s n 6s were introduced was for the rental fleet and CAFE standards (car manufacturer's have to avg a certain amount of MPG across their entire range.. the 4s n 6s brings that number up).. While I agree, the 4s n 6s are capable, it's not what you want in one of those cars, imo..
@@dre32pitt Yeah, but the cylinder count is largely irrelevant besides the added sound. If someone actually cares about the performance of the cars, then you still see large gaps in performance when comparing a M340i to a M3, a 911 base to a 911 turbo, a Golf GTI to a Golf R, a Civic Si to a Civic Type R.
Its no different than comparing a V6 Camaro to a V8 when you're strictly looking at performance numbers.
That's why I say comparing a V6 to a V8 is wack. People can't let the V6 stand on its own against other performance cars in its price range.
@@Maljey The sound makes a BIG difference for me. Like it's #2 behind driving feel for my personal car 'checklist'.. Im not doubting the performance differences, im just stating what most Americans thought process on this is..
At least for me, at this age, it's not about perfornamce #s.. it's about how the car feels, sounds, and most of all, how it makes ME feel..
And knowing myself, I know better than to get a 4 or 6 popper muscle car because Ill just want the V8 instead, so by going after the V8 initially, im actually saving myself $$.. at least that's the mental gymnastics I do, lol (everyone does this for multiple things in their life, whether you know it or not.. some may call it 'justification', but it's all mental gymnastics, lol)
Oh dam, I’ve been subscribed to you guys before the pandemic.. time has moved so quickly!!
Got the civic si a month ago, love it!! It’s just got enough to be a fun daily.
Throw a couple mods at it and it'll be an even more fun daily. I've got an EX-L (arthritic knee + city traffic = no manual for me) and even that is fun with a tune and stickier tires than Firestone OEM ones. I love mine too.
I will need to figure out what mods it needs. I have no idea about mods (yet) :).
Best mods hands down are ktuner, rear sway bar, and lowering springs. Then get into upgraded brakes and tires
Jeez, if it needs all that, just buy a better car.
Pretty slick that you called the ad 11:47 and I actually got an ad. Turning TH-cam into cable tv lol
When publishing a video depending on size of your channel and your level of relevance on TH-cam, you get tools like the one that allows you to decide where to place ads on the video specifically. So it likely wasn't too much of a coincidence. 😂
Being early to a throttle house video is TIGHT.
Women are the same way... remember that
Tight tight tight
With notifications on it’s super easy, barely an Inconvenience
Yeah yeah yeah!
@@ToasterPizzaFun makes me think of Beavis and Butthead
My first year 2019 Veloster N with the same drivetrain as the Elantra N manual has held up purty good. Hasn't been a Corolla reliable, but no performance car is, though all repairs have been covered at no cost. Brakes and tires are expensive, but otherwise, maintenance is cheap. Dealership experience is hit or miss depending on where u go, but generally, cheap dealership experience. I'm overall happy with my long term ownership and surprised that 5 yrs and 68k miles later no skweaks, no rattles, and suspension/rack and pinion steering feel is pretty tight and feels nearly as when new!
The Civic and the BrZ/86 twins are the best looking cars in the list. Personally, the Civic takes the cake. Drop it on some nice coils and WOW looks so damn good. Just wish it had more power. Guess you can stretch your budget and get the Type R
Has Thomas upgraded that old thrustmaster wheel yet?
I'd like to know why Ecoboost Mustang for them didn't make the list. For me the Ecoboost now start around 30 to 31k US. Once you put the performance package on it your like 35 to 38k OTD. Its a lot of money when for less you can buy a camaro and the alpha platform or a lighter weight better handling car like the 86 or BRZ.
Becuase the list is 10 cars, not 11
they said fun cars
It's auto only but it's the fastest car you can get for under $30k. Don't pay sticker should get several grand off easy even a 5.0 is $38k now
Because its trash.
the s650 version sucks and auto only. good for rental fleets though
To the Hyundai Elantra N comment about aging, I'd like to say, I daily an 18 Elantra Sport 1.6T DCT, and it has impressively not aged "like a Hyundai". I'm pleased to report zero creaks or noises. The doors still close with an acceptable "thunk". It's a solid little car.
Well... no unexpected noises. The tiny turbo still makes Hoover noises, and the exhaust still grumbles and burbles on a cold start more pleasantly than it has any right to.
Those Elantra Sport and the Kia Forte Koup Turbo were one of the best cars HMG ever built. I've owned both and not a single problem in more 95,000 miles of very hard driving. That 1.6T can take some abuse :)
Hyundai Steel is bad quality.
My dream was to buy an STI, but since they dont make them anymore and I really hate the design of the new WRX I was excited for the GR Corolla when it got revealed. But its too expensive for me in Canada. Recently I ended up test driving a friends BRZ and instantly fell in love.
It felt like you were going quick even when driving regular speeds. The Gr86/BRZ has been where my heart has been and i hope to get one in a year or two
Get a used STI?? If you get a 2019+, you get the stouter block by default (2018 STI Type RA longblock).. I had a Type RA for a bit.. dealer made me an offer to buy it that I couldn't refuse a couple of years ago when prices were mad, lol.. $45.5k (25k miles)
@@dre32pitt I've been considering this option! The only part that keeps me away from this is that by the time I'll be ready (2025/26) most STIs will be fairly used, and I worry about the reliability of used STIs being driven hard all the time with their head gasket concerns. Which is why I was planning on getting one brand new, so I knew how it's been treated.
Unless I'm ignorant and the 2019+ is a safer bet
@@TheUnkindledGuardian There will be 2019+ cars available that haven't been driven into the ground.. You'll probably still pay $35k-ish for one of those.. Find a low mile example that's been babied.. The stocker, the better (CBE is okay, lol). These STI's aren't like a Honda or Toyota.. They have more of a German feel/approach to maintenance and preventative maintenance.. You gotta be johnny on the spot with your fluid changes and monitoring temps..
The headgasket thing isnt as big of an issue on the turbo'd EJ's.. Most of hte failures, from my experience, are folks modding the car without proper supporting mods (AOS, 4th cylinder cooling mod, etc..).. They treat it like a B18 or some shit, lololo.. cant do that with these motors.
I was in the same boat and ended up buying a turbo Mazda cx-30, a 250hp awd hatchback with great ground clearance and a bunch of luxury features.
Rwd is not fun in Canadas winters, make sure to budget for studded tires if you’re going that route.
@@Nathan-jw1qn STI is AWD.. not sure where rwd statement was coming from, lol.. And the cx-30 is not comparable to the vehicles on this list.. No manual option and it's center of gravity is another knock against it being 'fun'.
First the intros, now even your outros are also always something to look forward to... 😅❤
Elantra N for sure
As an EN owner, 50k miles and only now has the first issue popped up and that’s because of a high boost tune. The BOV solenoid failed. However overall the car has been great in terms of fun and reliability
Glad to hear about the good reliability. Did you go with the DCT or manual version?
Can you do used cars? or is that too broad?
I put 85K miles on my Veloster N, with zero issues. But since the warranty was about gone and i drive 2200 Miles a month, I traded into a GR Corolla.
I got an add at exactly 11:52 😂😂
I didn't
My top 3 from that list, in order ( Speed, Fun, Stick )
1. Base V8 Camaro
2. GR 86
3. Elantra N
Are these 2 the new top gear?
Yes
Closest thing to it, IMHO. These guys are currently the best automotive channel on TH-cam
If they add Camissa full time and bring in Randy as the Stig.. then yes
@@debestcanadian SavageGeese is slightly better, imo.. more track and engineering focused.. but these two beat the pants off of that other canadian duo... they're too goddamn nice lmao
@@dre32pitt Agreed that the guys at Savagegeese do a much better job at presenting the technical side. I will admit, though, that I just prefer a more "entertaining" presentation (same as Top Gear always was in its heyday). And yes, I also agree that Thomas and James have this formula much better worked out than the Straight Pipes.
25:00
GR86 owner here. 6 track days 100% Stock except for oil changes. Feels as tight as the day i bought it.
Overfill half a litre??
@@ytj22 I use 6 us quarts and oem oil filter when changing oil. Not a single problem with the engine so far.
Finally! As a half white half korean guy my mom was always annoyed when people mispronounced Hyundai (her last name is Hyun), so it’s good to see people actually getting it right
I got a 24 gli and am loving it just need better tires
@25:05 THANK YOU THOMAS! Someone else shares my pain when manufacturers do this!
Guys, why wasn't the Mazda 3 manual hatchback not mentioned. It has about the same power as a civic si. I really would love a comparison between the 2.
Coz it's not considered to be a fun car
@@GingkoMister while there's some truth in that, the 3 is about 9/10th of fun level that the SI offers with a more luxurious cabin. An exhaust mod with some grippy tires can change its demeanor.
@@wizrish so you're spending GTi and approaching EN levels of money at that point
@@ShaiyanHossain I see your point. Naturally aspirated engine and a fine gearbox should amount to something. .
Love the couch talk vibe boys. Keep bringing on the content.🎉🎉🎉
"free healthcare". LOL
After mark ups (in Canada at least) a civic SI and an Elantra N are basically the same price.
Which seems like a bad deal on the civic’s part (and I’ve been a Honda fan boy growing up) 😂
I just got a 2005 Mini Cooper as my second ever car, learnt to drive a manual in the last two months and I’m totally sold so whatever my next car ends up being will likely be a manual as well. What you guys said about it feeling “square” is so pin on haha. I was thinking that last month going around traffic circles 😆
Thomas. Buy the Elantra N. Youll love it.
Just got THE Civic Si last year. Ccoming from a first gen 86 chassis, it's not as fun, but it's a good compromise for having all the extra usability of a Civic.
TH-cam's algorithm did, indeed, figure it out 💀
I'd like to confirm that an ad showed up at @11:50 immediately after James said..." we'll put an Ad there, LOL; maybe youtubes algorithms will figure it out."
Nice! Completely agree with TH's list👍
From my experience for that amount of money I would get a well taken care used 6th gen Camaro SS 6MT. I tested the BRZ/GR86, Elantra N with the DCT and 6MT and the WRX. My take that the best one for the money was the oustanding performing Elantra N in which ever transmission, followed by the great handling BRZ/GR86 twins. The WRX drove great but I hated the very thight uncomfortable Recaro seats.
I was thinking about the mustang at the exact moment you said it! How does a mustang with a 4.5 0-60 and under 40k not make the list?
My money is ready. Recently sold my GR Corolla after a little less than a year for only 5% depreciation, took the equity I had from my previous trade and am now ready to go! Low balling Subaru dealerships on leftover 23 WRXs because of the finance incentives has been fun but nobody is biting on $5K under sticker despite them sitting for 6-8 months 😂.
They know what they have 🤣
Why did you sell your GR Corolla after only a year? And to a loss. I don't get it.
@@janoycresnova9156 5% depreciation is awesome. I had a 7.5% interest rate and the car isn't worth that, especially when I don't have a commute.
As a brand new Honda sales rep I was waiting so hard to hear the SI 😂😂
The elantra N is plenty capable in the snow. I live in Canada, the e-lsd with snow tires is more than enough grip.
For engine reliability, I can confidently say it's the most overbuilt engine at it's price point. Its not using the theta 2 economy engine (which is wildely problematic), it uses the motorsports derived theta 2i.
We're still really pushing the limits of the platform. A tune puts you around 350whp super reliably, the platform is more fuel limited than anything. On meth, it pushes 400whp solidly. It's a great engine, used in their tcr cars.
With my EN (on all-weather Kumho) I've gone some hills that AWD with snows would slide back down. Reason being, the car has the dynamic to keep the momentum going (for the brave at heart).
Unfortunately, that's not very much long-term data. But once they hired Audi and BMW engineers, everything improved there. But we still won't really know for another 5-10 years.
@@mediocreman2 the theta 2i didn't debut on the Elantra N. It debuted back in 2017 with the 2018 i30N.
There's been almost a decade of real world data to show that it's a very very reliable engine. I can't attach pictures but if you saw what the rod looks like from these engines it's hilariously overbuilt
Sxth element engineering (does a ton of analysis, aftermarket parts and tuning for both the GR Corolla and the EN) has stated that the N's engine is definitely capable of holding more power than the corollas 1.6t. They estimate 450-500whp on stock internals no problem to be daily driven and abused.
The economy theta 2 2.0t in the optima's, Genesis coupes and SUV's used to blow up if you looked at them funny lol.
@@mediocreman2 EN would be a great mule to effect the brands reliability issues On a positive note, after fueling-up at Shell (on Richmond St), took it up the DVP to Bloor and then to Greenwood Park. Did 5.9L/100km on that short mixed trip...The good engines tends to improve on consumption as they age.
anything is good in snow with the right snow tire.
1:03 it is mainly governments to blame. New cars need to adhere to so many rules and regulations that prices are automatically pushed up. I am talking about mostly safety equipment that has become mandatory over the years and also emissions standards.
man, really wish the Suzuki Jimny came to the US
Picked up a '23 MX-5 a few weeks ago. It's such a fun freaking car.
You should do a mid tier budget fun car list with a budget under $65,000!!
Love, love the couch videos!! Cherrs!
Thomas- You don't realize how great the Camaro's 3.6 V6 is when paired with the manual. It revs so good and sounds better than it should. Have you ever driven a manual v6 Camaro sixth gen?
I can only speak for Hyundai in europe, since I've owned a 2011 model and a 2021 model: They have improved themselves BY A LOT!
And I know exactly what you mean by the Hyundai effect, where after a long period the plastic in the car starts rattling, which is a solid concern, I get that. Or nowadays that the wear and tear on certain components can be really high, but they got you covered with their 5 year warranty, expandable to 8 (yes they actually replace these for free, if the car was not tempered with in a significant way and yes you can buy tuning parts from Hyundai which also get covered by warranty like a fricking intake system which goes sutututu)
But how I see it, it's like the Mustang where it's not necessarily the cars and more the owners fault of it's reputation. One factor is the target audience of these cars, secondly it is kinda what the car wants you to do with it. Because the cars are great, I am not gonna question that, but it's the certain quirks that come with it.
CAMARO LT1!!
Good car but not under $40k in 2024. And now dead.
Just had to look it up….it starts at $53k!!
Best new car and performance car under 40k its a GTI. Easily. Nothing has a better chassis, and nothing can split the personalities better. Also manual for the win.
Indeed, why no Mustang EcoBoost?
The list is 10 cars that’s why, not 11 cars
@@19hundoc47 I think it's implied that the Mustang should replace one of the Ten.
they said fun cars
Well...
@@coolaa7Except who wants to be another Mustang driver?
“maybe youtube’s algorithm will figure it out” and i got an add right as you said that 😂
Dude. You timed the ad Bang On 11:49
Fun fact. I'm an engineer at the company that designed and built the "Bezel-less" rear view mirror for the Mx-5. as well as almost all other cars' mirrors.
11:57 it figured it out! Got a Mint Mobile ad! 😂
The Elantra N, Kona N have proven to be very strong engines, even modded to make well over 400+ WHP. Since 2022 the 2.0 Theta is the last interation of the engine and they went all out from larger turbo, to stronger casting on the block and other minor changes for NVH and reliability.
I've been running a SXTH stage 2 tune on my FBO EN with no issues. Doesn't seem that uncommon from what I see online with others' tuned ENs. (Thomas, please get one!)
45k miles of pure abuse on my Kona N, hasn't skipped a beat. Multiple cross country road trips, hours and hours of runs on places like Tail of the Dragon, etc. Zero issues whatsoever and has been nothing but pure enjoyment to own and drive. The N cars are absolutely fantastic and I'm a massive critic of cars, and have owned and driven a fair amount of other sporty cars in various configurations.