Star Trek: TNG Review - 6x12 Ship In A Bottle | Reverse Angle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Moriarty returns with a vengeance, outraged at being forced to sit through Booby Trap without being able to do anything about it.
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Sources:
Echevarria, René. “Ship In A Bottle.” Star Trek: The Next Generation, created by Gene Roddenberry, Season 6, Episode 12, Paramount Television, CBS, 1993.
Galactus created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.
Lane, Brian Alan. “Elementary, Dear Data.” Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 2, Episode 3, Paramount Television, CBS, 1988.
Gibson, Alan, director. Dracula A.D. 1972. Columbia-Warner Distributors, 1972.
The Source Wall created by Jack Kirby.
Silvermane created by Stan Lee and John Buscema.
This is kinda a hidden gem of an episode to me, when people talk about TNG they usually mention The Best of Both Worlds, Yesterday's Enterprise, The Chain of Command, All Good Things etc. but I quite like Ship In A Bottle, the trio Picard + Data + Barclay are so great together I wish there was more episodes featuring them solving some issue etc., Moriarty is wonderful character and the whole solution is very surprising and satisfying when you see it for the first time. To me this is an A or A- at max.
Feel like we always get some extra effort acting out of everybody. I'm not saying that they aren't professional or anything like that but when you get to do something fun like that and look at a really unique and ever-changing situation makes things really fun
You seem to have confused min and max ...
probably one of the best of the episodes and was before the simulation argument took off aka after the matrix, but Picard's end statement is more true than the characters know, all of Star Trek being just a simulation (studio production) in a small box on a table (TV) in 1993 when it aired
@@halfsourlizard9319I like your comment. Gets a maximum F- or an A+ minimum.
If you have enough hydrogen to produce a sufficient density, you will get a star. It doesn't matter if the gas collects over millions of years or in a single event. With that said, Star Trek tends to show results of stellar events in episode times, which often isn't realistic.
Those gas planets would have needed dozens of Jupiter masses to become a star, meaning they would likely be brown dwarfs
Oddly enough gas planets more massive than Jupiter will have a similar radius due to the equilibrium of gravitational compression and the atomic pressure gradient.
Should also be mentioned that in season 1 it is shown that Data because of his enhanced vision is able to determine where the holodeck walls are while he is still inside the holodeck. So shouldn't data have known the entire time that they were still inside the holodeck.
Data lives a very boring emotionless life. Maybe he was fucking with them? :D
I assumed because Moriarty was created to defeat Data he was aware of this and accounted for it somehow.
Or the writers just kind of forgot 😉
@@Nasafalkas1 It works both ways. You can either appreciate it as consistency OR you can be angry for hack writing. It brings both sides of the fandom together. Brilliant!
The holodeck was upgraded towards the end of season 1 by the Bynars in "11001001".
They really should turn off those Holodecks for a few weeks for two reasons - 1) Deep Clean for all the Riker Jizz on the walls and 2) the Holodeck characters constantly trying to take over the Enterprise
Major grin made an edit about that very thing.(in one edit troi Jordi and riker all walk in to Barkleys prono program)
They should really rethink the holodeck. With it's tendency to malfunction with potentially lethal consequences, it's the most ill thought out leisure technology this side of Jurassic Park.
Futurama had an episode where evil Abe Lincoln escaped from the holodeck
"Riker to Bridge. If anyone needs me... I'll be in Holodeck 3."
@@Sin526Bridge to Housekeeping..get some rest while you can. You are going to be putting in some overtime.
A right-handed baseball player catches with his left hand but maybe they forget about that in the future.
People were blown away by the Matrix in 1999 thinking it was an amazing and original idea to consider being trapped in a virtual reality. But that idea was old even when this episode was made. There's a 1973 Werner Fassbinder made for TV movie, where scientists had created a computer simulated world, and the plot twist is not hard to predict. It's similar to this holodeck within a holodeck.
I mean, Nietzsche considered similar ideas in the 19th Century.
@@halfsourlizard9319
Plato considered the allegory of the cave. And Rene Descarte considered a similar thought experiment.
But the Matrix was unoriginal with its digital virtual reality.
10:44 at the end of this episode where LT Barckly walks off screen carrying the thing with the cube pluged into it i would of loved to of seen him pause breafly and break the 4th wall by saying to everyone watching this episode "Just Checking"
You say Brent Spinder is over-acting - I think that's the point. He's overacting because Data would overact.
Daniel Davis plays a superb villain. Dwight Schultz, is as always, great!
Great episode. A-
The merging of two sufficiently large gas giants could absolutely create a star, though it would take a long time (on a human scale) for it to fully form. The gravity well would "intensify" in the sense that it became smaller and steeper due to the new star being much denser than the planets.
For example: A brown dwarf with around 20 times the mass of Jupiter would likely have a smaller diameter.
I guess Moriarty lived until Generations. One of the sad casualties of Soran's ill advised plan. Moriarty would have died in the crash, along with however many lower decks characters they lost, and Kirk died from a deadly bridge.
They probably handed him off to Starfleet HQ. Easier to keep him contained in a non-networked computer.
I always imagined he was recruited by section 31
@@NeilCWCampbell how on earth would you recruit a hologram, it is just light projection and a digital subroutine of 1s and 0s like all software programming/coding,
@@shawntipton5078 ok 🤣🤣🤣
He's actually still alive even in Picard: Season 3.
The problem I have with the holodeck is just how small it is when we see it not in use. Just look at how small it is here at 1:25 - when we only see two present and it already looks tiny. Surely Paramount could have built a larger holodeck set? I don't ever see this holodeck functioning properly without people bumping into each other.
I'm glad I stuck around for the "Cube 0: Square" line
Quick question unlikely to get seen or answered: Are you guys planning on doing full series reviews on any other Star Trek shows? I'm really loving watching the two of you absolutely and lovingly tear apart TNG and would love to see your takes on DS9.
They talked about this in an earlier video right now they are just going to focus on tng but it's implied that once tng is over they may move to ds9( but this is just the impression I get/may be wishful thinking)
I think I heard them talk a while ago about moving on to DS9 after TNG, and doing Angel after Buffy.
@@clarkmichaels822 that's what I think I heard too might happen.
I think Moriarty did already know that the Enterprise is a starship. He was merely pretending to be surprised by this fact to make the holodeck simulation he had them trapped in seem as real as possible. At least that's what I'm going with in my head-canon since it actually makes some semblance of sense.
Wish they had shown Moriarty escaping after the ship crashes in Generations.
He rides off on an old-timey pennyfarthing bicycle with a bandolier of stolen phasers across his chest, quipping into the sunset. I like it
I am presently consuming your channel, like those nanites a few episodes ago, I have started to transcend.
I have been watching since they started early season 3 of tng lol
What I don’t understand is that in a couple episodes, the Exocomps will be introduced, and in Season 7, a probe with a neural interface will be introduced. Why couldn’t a warp capable space probe be developed to hold Moriarty’s consciousness with it’s own onboard holographic projectors?
Wouldn’t this also be the prototype for a 24 Century equivalent to the EMH mobile emitter?
Too bad Moriarity died in Generations right before the EMH was installed.
That actually exactly how stars are formed...
It's not the only way but yes, it's an entirely viable phenomenon.
Great review. And I can’t _wait_ to watch _Hypercube²: Squares of Justice._
I remember that this ep ending was sweet and unexpected. I initially thought they were just gonna trick him & delete him😅
He's not really Moriarty, he's a self aware computer program that thinks he's Moriarty. Considering he's supposed to be ultra intelligent, I think Picard or Data should have told him he was free to create himself in a new way, and then they should have offered him a job solving problems on the enterprise.
Sucks that this guy didnt get a magical future pocket holodeck like the Doctor from Voyager did
At least they did address holo porn.
But it was on DS9.
Suddenly Human IS that bad. It's The Most Toys that isn't that bad. Though, I might be biased because of Warehouse 13.
I like The Most Toys. Fajo (however it's spelled) reminds me a little of Harry Mudd from the original, only much more cruel. Although I don't know why Data is so rare given that they can create "transporter doubles" and replicate nearly anything.
@@kev3d Once they found the duplicate riker, I'm surprised they didn't look into cloning people via the transporter.
Well in ds9 vic Fontaine is a fully self aware hologram program and the doctor basically is or becomes a holographic person in voyager(not to mention how they discover his moble emitter) which allows him to exist anywhere
Don’t get me started on how The Doctor gained his mobile emitter. If someone from the ‘90s could figure that out, how could nobody do it hundreds of years later?
@@musicByJake from what I understand he just stole whatever tech was on the time ship.
Just to let you know, in our own galaxy Jupiter is a gas giant that has no surface.
You'd think this Star Trek universe, being centuries in the future, would have droids. There's Data of course, but though no one knows how to build another Data, they could put the AI they created in a robot.
I’m not saying that it would happen. But if the gas giants are hydrogen based like Jupiter, it could be that combined they have enough mass, enough heat and pressure, to start hydrogen fusion in the core. Seems possible. Improbable, but possible
Why doesn’t the lack of a solid surface make sense. Gas giants would have liquid surfaces, but the gradient from gas to liquid would be slow. Not like the Earth where you splash into the ocean
Yes, the gravity well should be the same, unless the the two planets combine and become more dense. Instead of larger. Which is what we should expect. In that case it the gradient of the gravity well would become more intense closer to the surface than for a less dense object with the same mass. In the same way that if you shrink the earth to the size of a golf ball it will be a black hole. This shouldn’t affect the enterprise though unless they are drifting closer to it. They shouldn’t experience any increase in force from the same location
I liked this episode
Wasn't the plot of the 2001 Space Odyssey sequel about turning Jupiter into a star by adding mass?
Thank you!
Took the words right out of my mouth. If a star can form from a gaseous nebula, why not from the collision of two much more densely packed balls of gas (presumably with a lot of hydrogen) ? I'm still scratching my head over the "lack of a solid surface" comment.
Yeah, I should have explained how I was taking Data's comment. I took Data to mean that the planets were 100% gas. That's technically not what he says, but I still think that's what the writers were thinking. -Robert
@@reverseangle ok, like he was saying you could potentially fly right through it?
Of course Picard mainly wanted to regain control of the ship. Do you the captain of the ship should have let some hologram remain in control because he was sad? I would have had Moriarty eliminated.
If two very large gas giants merge, they might have enough mass to produce the gravity necessary to kick start fusion....
True, but the way they depicted things was two planets slamming into each other at right angles-although granted the visual depiction later was the two planets seemingly at a standstill right next to each other, which was very implausible. -Robert
@@reverseangle Realistically they would begin to pull one another apart as they approached, but, assuming sufficient hydrogen mass between them, would still generate a star. I don't know how they got on a right angle course toward each other, but even that's not impossible.
Should have uploaded him to the Borg computer system, so they have to deal with him.
16:01 Season 3 of Picard: Moriarty's Revenge
I know Stephanie Beachum as Sable Colby in Dynasty.
2:33 stars COULD form from planets merging if they have sufficient mass.
i've always wondered if two gas giants could collectively have enough mass to jump-start a small star like a red dwarf. if one of those appears, it could hypothetically burn for tens of billions of years
to get a star you need 88 Jupiter's worth of mass. so it both the gas giants were technically brown dwarfs you could get a star. But I suspect geordi meant a brown daft which you could get with to with 13 Jupiter's worth of mass
Moriarty's first crime would be lashing a 23rd century pickup to a 23rd century ATM and gunning it.
But TNG is in the 24th Century.
It's kind of messed up that they create a conscious being, accidental or not, and say they are going to get him into the real world, but then file him away in some forgotten holodeck application directory (next to Rikers encrypted folder) and don't give him a second thought.
Also, if I were in charge of a nu-trek series, I'd tone down and clearly define the abilities of the holodeck. I love some of the TNG holodeck episodes, but they are also pretty silly
I don't know if someone has already made this point below. The major limitation of the holodeck is its physical size. Multiple people experiencing the same holodeck programme would have to physically remain no further from each other than the width and length of the holodeck floor. So at no point while the programme is running could anyone be out of sight of any of the others (unless they were behind a wall/door but still within the holodeck's actual dimensions).
The problem with the "beam stuff out of the holodeck" thing is: It has to function on its own. That means: Its internal structure must perfectly mimic the actual thing to be able to exist in our universe. The holodeck objects - including simulated beings - have no internal structure, they are faxsimiles, hollow shells, that only have to look convincing for the holodeck illusion, they're much like the NPCs of our computergames. So, in order to beam Moriarty's girlfriend out of the holodeck, she has to be replicated complete with internal organs and a brain with all the engrams necessary to make her "her". So, instead of using the transporter, they should use one of the large replicators in the main cargobay... but it's probably a moot point, because all this tech, holography, replication, matter/energy transportation is based on the same core principle in Star Trek. In any way, my point is: You can not just beam something out into the real world, when it lacks an internal structure to exist there in the first place. They did not adress this problem properly in that episode (and that's okay, because it's fiction anyway).
If they hhave no internal structure, how then could objects in hte holodeck look, and feel real ojects? How can the crew open a door in the holodeck, or sit on a chair if it lacks internal structure? It would seem if these holodeck objects are real enough to touch and feel, why wouldn't they have an internal structure? In the first episode with Moriaty, Data takes Picard a piece of paper off the holodeck that Moriaty gave him. So if they cannot transport objects off the holodeck, how did a single piece of paper make it off the holodeck without instantly distingerating?
@@3dartistguy All good questions. That Data takes out a piece of paper while entire books thrown out into the corridor disappear is a continuity mistake from the writers, obviously.
Now how can people touch and feel things in a Holodeck? Probably because of the other magical technology they claim to have: Forcefields. They actually say that in various episodes of Voyager ("It's all just photons and forcefields"). So, my guess is, the forcefields create the sensation of touch and barriers; maybe even texture. But I am speculating, which only patches up the holes the writers didn't care to explain away in a plausible way (so I probably shouldn't do that). But the claim it would be just photons and force fields strongly indicates: There is no inner structure - it's all just make believe.
But my argument still stands, and here is why: The Doctor, with mobile emitter or on the holodeck, gets repeatedly attacked. There was one scene in a barn on an alien planet, and he got shot at with a shotgun. The bullets went right through him and he just rolled his eyes. If he'd need an inner structure (which means an organic system) to exist as a holo-entity at all then this structure would have been severely compromised. But that didn't happen... he just flickered a couple of times and that was it.
This is plotarmor of course; contrivance. But it is in line with the photons-and-forcefields claim.
@@3dartistguy Also I should mention: To physically exist with conventional matter in our universe, you'd need to be comprised out of baryonic matter (you know, atoms, molecules, compounds and all), which is not the case with the "photons and forcefields" the holo-objects are comprised of. So, in order to get them out of the holodeck, they would have to "make" them... like with a replicator on the cargodeck. They didn't actually explain why the transporter would be the better choice, because that just recombines existing matter while a replicator actually "makes" things from scratch. I am ranting now, but you get the point.
@@Tristan3D was t a crewmen shot with a bullet on the holodeck sbd if it’s all forcefields and illusion , how could someone get wet from water from falling into a pond and how could a snowball hit Picard and cause him to get wet while standing outside the holodeck? If the replicators can replicate meat and other items why couldn’t replicate a whole human being as well that a custom outer design like Morisot and rhe Duchess?
@@3dartistguy Maybe you just misunderstood my argument: I am not saying they can't do it. But I am saying they should use the replicator instead of the transporter. The matter of fact is: You need to be a functional biological being to be transported out of an enviroment that simulates you in order to be "alive" outside of it in an independent way. The holodeck objects are described as these photons hold together with their magical forcefields - that is not my idea, but it is also true that these things can not exist outside the holodeck without being turned into actual baryonic matter and even more than that: To biological beings. Are you seriously of a different opinion? Are you implying that the holodeck "makes" people - actual living independet biologically fully functional people - out of baryonic matter every time they simulate a new enviroment (you do also know that videogame NPCs are not real people, right? They look and sometimes even behave like living people, but - and I can't believe I have to say this - they really are not living beings; they are hollow and have no inner structure other than maybe the bone structure the 3D geometry is skinned upon; as a fellow 3D artist you should know in detail how they are created - I surely do, and I work with this 3D & VFX stuff for over 25 years now)? If so, you are wrong - and even Star Trek says so. This is not how a holodeck is supposed to work according to the Trek writers from the 90's. This is not how the sparse info they gave us for it describes it to be and this is also not how Voyager's The Doctor worked as an entity. Also: Why would you assume I should be answering all these questions about the plot contrivances that have been screwed up by the Star Trek writers back in the day? I haven't invented this nonsense - they did.
And so: I don't really care about snowballs, water, food, the breeze of a wind or a piece of paper being carried out of the Holodeck, while a book would vanish, even though there should be no qualitative difference between the two simualted things - the reason is: I didn't make these mistakes in lacking to explain how that can work and I will not speculate on that either (which means: I don't think it is very well explained in Star Trek, and you will not catch me explaining these plotholes for them). This is the screw up of the writers, and all I do is remarking that in order to "transport" any simulated person outside of the holodeck, that is overtly described as being a simulation out of photons and forcefields, you really have to do more than just say "energize" - you have to make them into actual biological beings.
Did I make myself clear now? I surely hope so, because I really can not simplify my argument for you any more than I already did.
I give it an A-. I should mention that after four years, only a hint is made of Dr. Pulaski, when we first saw Moriarity. She is mentioned as "my hostage" instead of by name. Moriarity should have asked about her.
Moriarty is just bitter because he had to spend years in a holodeck program being the butler to a Broadway producer and listen to a woman's nasally voice.
If the Holodeck can make actual real objects like a chair, why wouldnt the transporters have something to lock onto?
09:11
that also happened
on an episode of
THE ORVILLE
Picard's end statement is more true than the characters know, all of Star Trek being just a simulation (studio production) in a small box on a table (TV) in 1993 when it aired
The hosts are getting snippy in their old age! ;-)
I never understood where Picard got his change of clothes if he, Data, and Barkley were in the holodeck the whole time.
stephanie beacham is very nice-looking.
She was awesome in the WWII drama Tenko.
I know her mostly from Seaquest DSV
6:55 best observation. - bravo
Wait till they get to voyager sentient holograms everywhere
I remember hearing they wanted to revisit Moriarty earlier but it took a while to get permission to use the character again due to copyright.
'"Cogito ergo sum...I think, therefore I am!" It would be nice to see Moriarty in Picard. He may have a cameo.
I felt the episode was good and entertaining to watch but they could have done more with it in the beginning and even in the end.
I'd actually give it a C+
I'm pretty sure Christopher Nolan took a bit inspiration from this episode for the dream within a dream thing in inception ( holodeck within a holo deck )
Two sufficiently massive hydrogen masses colliding with each other will absolutely trigger a fusion reaction and generate a star. I have no idea what you're talking about. Some gas giants just barely fail to become stars by themselves.
Also, it's entirely conceivable for gas giants not to have land mass. The internal composition of gas giants even within our own solar system is incredibly speculative. There's speculated to be a mineral core, which may or may not be solid depending on the compressibility of the material therein, and are just as likely to be frozen gasses such as methane or ammonia.
Also: Sure, you can stellify objects. I mean technically you can. I doubt two large gasplanets are enough mass-wise to get a star, but shove two brown dwarfs of suffcient mass together and they will combine to an extremely low mass red dwarf. Apart from the practical issues to do that in the first place, I don't really see a problem with this notion. But: I would recommend not to do that, because all the hydrogen in those brown dwarfs could be more efficiently used in fusion reactors, than in the center of a star. Stars are pretty wasteful, and as an energy source rather 'out-of-control'. When you need energy to operate, you want to have a controllable energy production method. Fusion reactors would be such a controllable technology - making stars on the other hand wouldn't; it is from all thinkable possibilities the worst to get a lot of energy produced.
Them bringing up an S tank made me wonder have they ranked an episode S? If not what is their highest ranking episode?
You guys are great! Subscribed! I spend a lot of my time during the day with software development nerds… Much like you two. 😂 “nerd“ is a compliment by the way. I’m a scaled agile nerd so I wear that badge proudly. Anyway, looking forward to watching other episodes. Keep them coming! Do you do other series?
a thought occurred about Moriarty: the holodeck is apparently capable of replicating smaller, simpler items, but i'm wondering if a full human body can be replicated with enough input information, sort of like the transporters.
Reverse Angle - for fun.... Mix Up FRAME of MIND and SECOND CHANCES
I wonder if the Simulation theory was discussed in this episode?
Would love you to do DS9 and Voyager too
2:12 - 2:28 Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Did just hear those two very incorrect statements or did I dream that?
Two gas giants combining into one can make a star If big enough.
This is another C- ranked episode. Transporting stuff off the holodeck made no sense to even attempt. The technobabble doesn't seem to have any actual, practical function. They have replicators and transporters but no way to mix that into a holodeck?
6:38 Stephanie Beecham was HUIGE whachoo talking about
Are you guys watching all these for the first time out? It feels like it.
Definitely not -- they've talked about it before ... Pretty sure it's a schtick for the videos.
Jupiter could have been a star if it were 13 times bigger, it's possible to stars to form from planet collisions but it would take thousands of years for gravity and friction to cause all the dust and gas to coallesce after the massive collision and much larger gas giants, like 80 times jupiter for a regular star, 13 times more for a brown dwarf and a thousand times bigger to be our sun
Get inception vibes from this ep
Giving sentience to your simulated holodeck ladyfriend: How romantic.
The simplest answer would be to use the transporter to make 2 Data and then then alter them to look like Moriarty and his wife and then upload them to the Datas. Done
Actually, 2 large brown dwarfs smashing into each other could indeed cause a red dwarf star to form.
this is out of nowhere, but since when is catching something in your left hand proof that you're left-handed? I'm going to guess that the writers didn't play sports, since if you played baseball you would probably catch better with your non-dominant hand. I think if someone throws something at me, I tend to catch it with whatever hand is closer to where the item is going
DNA from a Holodeck? What the Heck?
WTF I'm totally subscribed yet haven't been notified of the last few videos!!
You have to like and subscribe and hit the bell icon and kiss the monitor.
@@Doomclown I can't get anything right
You two are heretics! 😂 but gave good grades.
This was one of my all time favourite episodes
You’re right, everyone should have figured things out much sooner.
I think its worth remembering that in the 90s, no one was anywhere near as loaded on information as we are today, particularly in the sciences. TNG knew it could get away with quasinonsense technobabble - and it did… until you two showed up and ruined it all 25 years later!😂
Square … lmao nice one
"This proves you can have a good episode without lots of action..." Yes...
"...with good writing." Eh...
What if she gets pregnant?
Would it be a holobaby?
Let's give a bad guy, and a holographic one no less, free roam of the ship, what could go wrong?
I love this episode!
Literally WTF is a 'git push manager'!?
Retroactive support comment, 👍 and sub. I guess they're past 💰 but clearly, not past lying and cruel deceptions.
Do Voyager
Very good "what if" review. This was one of the smarter episodes in the series, but not too smart so as to lose the majority of the potential viewers (uh hum, Picard series).
I gave this one a B grade (it's another field goal). I'm not sure how the story could have been pushed higher. I think they pushed Moriarty's intelligence as far as it could go without getting into an infinite "I got you now"/Trump(card game)/program loop. If they had Moriarty figuring out that they were playing his trick on him, how do they stop the neverending loop?
A good episode, and the plot mechanism, using the holodeck to create a world within itself was a good one. However, I could easily see this being overplayed, and glad they didn't overdo it.
That's beautiful all girls in this world would love only me 🤣🤣🤣
Great review. 😅 ❤️
A+
Alexa end program. Wt….
lol square
I was looking forward to watching this, one of my favourite Star Trek: TNG episodes from years ago, but after the profanity at 31 seconds knew this wasn't for me. Won't watch any of these videos.
This channel is unpleasable