@@grahamdrews9290 its actually telvanni noble, whipping is just for fun, and scalys couldn't hold any land for long since they are nothing without their little cesspool that they call home
Actually, it is possible to make reference to things in English without reference to time. It's an old grammatical feature called the gnomic aspect, which is used when trying to state general truths. In English, the gnomic aspect calls for the omission of the definite article and the verb to take the form of the present tense. However, the statement does not convey tense in the traditional sense. Gnomic expressions are sort of timeless, thus tenseless. At most, it could be called a "neutral" tense. An example of this would be something like, "Rabbits run," or "a mother can tell." No time is indicated by a verb or time-referent particle, but they're still perfectly grammatical. Now, the gnomic aspect hardly exists in English (or most other Germanic languages, as far as I know), but in some Indo-European languages, the gnomic aspect is better preserved and can be seen more productively in old Indo-European languages, like Ancient Greek and Latin.
its not just that you have to get the pronunciation correct in Jel. its actually been stated that the mouths of the other races are incapable of making the sounds needed to speak the full language. Other than that, Jel is full of metaphor. Even when translated to other languages the other races cant understand it.
My love for Argonians started in Morrowind because being a 'lizard dude' was appealing to me at 10. Now I love them because they have some of the best lore and an awesome culture. Thanks for the work you do :D
5:22 they use words like yesterday or tomorrow, that way they can use them in the sentence to mark time without changing words. For example: I will pay you tomorrow. You use tomorrow, so you know that the action will happen in the future and the word "will" is not very important.
I really hope they do something big for the argonians once. There basically the underdog in tamriel. Always enslaved. If the hist wasnt there they would be nothing. I really hope that their attack on morrowind wasn,t full scale but just to test the weak dunmer and that they will attack the weakened winner of the second great war.
Well. Here's the problem. The Argonians main threat when they invaded Morrowind was house Redoran whose suffered from 2 major crisis, and they were still holding their own. Argonians by them selves can't win a battle.
Maya Before, Maya After by NativLang looks at Mayan, which is a tenseless language. Its a good video that explains it well imo. Great video loving these lore videos while I'm in a TES binge.
You mentioned that Jel never really changed after its original creation due to the interconnection of all the Hist trees. However, do you think it's possible that Lilmoth Jel actually *did* change a bit in the early fourth era, due to the events of The Infernal City? Specifically I'm talking about the Lilmoth Hist tree's disconnection from the other Hist trees in favor of Umbriel's Fringe Gyre trees. The book states that Lilmoth Argonians were pretty much universally worried about this, and the inability to connect to other tribes leaves Lilmoth Jel able to evolve separately from the main branch of Jel. Additionally I would wonder if, even without Umbriel's intervention, the Lukiul would have eventually diverged from the An-Xileel due to Imperial influence on their culture. It really is a shame that there's so little data, or even plain information, about this language. It would be fascinating to study properly.
Been Studying a little bit of it on my own and I greatly appreciate that you made a video on it definitely going to be a little bit more helpful than a few pages keep up the good work 👍
I do not know chinese well but I do know that in chinese if you want to say when something happens you literally say when it happened no tense change. For example "my cat run yesterday" or "I do that 5 minutes (ago)"
So Argonians don't have the concept of time causality? (B is moving because it was touched by A before) If they think everything exists in a non linear way when it concers time it seems like so. Then their ethics and moral maybe really different form other religions, creeds or mindsets that values choice and the consequence of them. But then I think what's the point of having a language if all Argonians in Tamriel are connected by thought? Are they really telepathic with each other? Or it just like a hearsay because their language is so near to express perfectly thoughts that foreign people think it's telepathy? Also: NINININININININININININININININININI
I like how you can only understand Jel if you are a Black Marsh Argonian. From what I understand, Argonians born outside of Black Marsh can't understand it because they don't have the influence of the Hist.
I know years late. But if the city wasnt its own loading screen location it would work. But because ir would break the game and even lag out they made it where it dont work. Like it works in cities like dragonreach, or helgen cuz its not its own loaded location.
Jel works very similar to various Asian languages, not just Chinese but yes that is an example. Tenses are weird, but thanks to how Jel works it's very unlikely for us to go to Black Marsh without major retcons to not only the region but also the language. While they can simply just translate it to whatever language is needed the dependance on verbal AND body language would make it very expensive to make a game there since you'd have to still do that body language aspect. All that animating gets expensive.
I love it when game developers go the extra step by making a unique language for their gameworlds; it really creates a feeling of wholeness. Bethesda should hire a linguist like David J. Peterson (Game of Thrones) or use conlangs (constructed languages) that already exist. For the Imperial Legion (which is clearly inspired by Rome), Interlingua or Latino Sine Flex would be great since they are basically modernized and simplified versions of Latin. For the Nords, use Folkspraak or Anglish because they are based on Germanic languages. For the dragons, use Folkspraak, Anglish, or Proto Indo-European (PIE) because dragons probably predate the many races of Skyrim. For the other races, read the "Zonal Constructed Languages" article on Wikipedia. Hiring a linguist could be expensive and time consuming. Using a conlang is easier because the work has already been and some are probably free to use. Search for Interlingua conversations, the Anglish Moot, or the Folkspraak wiki.
Since the video is about slaves, I just wish to remind you all that khajiit were once elves and became cat people by choice and thus are officially furrys and deserve to be treated more harshly as slaves (or test rats for telvanni experiments)
Ukko The Dwarf that’s what they believe as a religion, but in reality Tamriel was inhabited by all beast folk before anybody else showed up, including the elves, although once they did show up they stayed for so long you might as well call them natives. Most of the old beast folk races went extinct a long time ago, probably from being overcrowded by the elves or being enslaved by them and the such, but a few are still around like the khajiit and argonians.
I don't mean to be negative, but a ton of information in this video is bad speculation based on bad information. For example, the Ehlnofey (descendants of the Aedra) are the ancestors of men and mer (elves) but NOT Beastfolk (the khaijit and argonians - but also minotaurs, goblins, giants, and even dragons). Jel is explicitly not descended from Ehlnofex (the language of the Ehlnofey). The Hist don't just store the memories of Argonians - the trees are sentient themselves, and Jel is THEIR language, imparted to Argonians. It really bothers me when youtubers who style themselves as lore experts don't like. Take a half-hour to refresh their half-baked recollections before writing a script.
Indeed but khajiit are worse, they chose to become cats in the merethic era and are officially furrys and should not be ignored when choosing a slave for your mines or fields
“Hey, dark brotherhood? I would like to place 2 contracts on some people. Darth Plagueis The Wise, and Ukko The Dwarf. They have disgraced and discriminated us Argonians.
Sep nei yoqe Todd Howard
Do not worry N'wah, I'm sure you will speak fluent Dunmeris after few months of whip therapy
Ever thought about talking about what happened to the protagonists of "The elder scrolls" but in detail. It would be beautiful if you do it.
@@ukkothedwarf1259 Don't worry Dres Noble, you will speak fluent Jel after the Tear(city) burning and mournhold sacking therapy too :)
@@grahamdrews9290 its actually telvanni noble, whipping is just for fun, and scalys couldn't hold any land for long since they are nothing without their little cesspool that they call home
xho keelu farengar
Actually, it is possible to make reference to things in English without reference to time. It's an old grammatical feature called the gnomic aspect, which is used when trying to state general truths. In English, the gnomic aspect calls for the omission of the definite article and the verb to take the form of the present tense. However, the statement does not convey tense in the traditional sense. Gnomic expressions are sort of timeless, thus tenseless. At most, it could be called a "neutral" tense.
An example of this would be something like, "Rabbits run," or "a mother can tell." No time is indicated by a verb or time-referent particle, but they're still perfectly grammatical.
Now, the gnomic aspect hardly exists in English (or most other Germanic languages, as far as I know), but in some Indo-European languages, the gnomic aspect is better preserved and can be seen more productively in old Indo-European languages, like Ancient Greek and Latin.
The only language I understand is the good old septim
"Perhaps my friend Tiber can ease your doubts"
Jel sounds a lot like many indigenous north american tongues. Maybe that’s why I like Argonians so much
Sleepy Sartorialist Their culture mirrors Aztec, Maya and Inca culture. Khajiit culture reflects Southeast Asia
its not just that you have to get the pronunciation correct in Jel. its actually been stated that the mouths of the other races are incapable of making the sounds needed to speak the full language.
Other than that, Jel is full of metaphor. Even when translated to other languages the other races cant understand it.
Hmm then how can I read, speak, and understand it perfectly (ish)
Shaka when the walls fell.
That and it only has present tense verbs
Timba, his arms wide.
Pelagius trying to speak Jel must have sounded like that scene in Men in Black
My love for Argonians started in Morrowind because being a 'lizard dude' was appealing to me at 10. Now I love them because they have some of the best lore and an awesome culture. Thanks for the work you do :D
5:22 they use words like yesterday or tomorrow, that way they can use them in the sentence to mark time without changing words. For example:
I will pay you tomorrow. You use tomorrow, so you know that the action will happen in the future and the word "will" is not very important.
I really hope they do something big for the argonians once. There basically the underdog in tamriel. Always enslaved. If the hist wasnt there they would be nothing. I really hope that their attack on morrowind wasn,t full scale but just to test the weak dunmer and that they will attack the weakened winner of the second great war.
HteMachtigeKanaal The Great Argonian Empire
Well. Here's the problem.
The Argonians main threat when they invaded Morrowind was house Redoran whose suffered from 2 major crisis, and they were still holding their own. Argonians by them selves can't win a battle.
Txakal thtachal teetlu'eth. Sep kuatxa jel. Kauh xho lakhu khaal, or yoqe? sep lakhu khaal. Kaaxl thtachal teetlu'eth.
Looking at that and trying to pronounce it gives me a headache. Maybe I won’t try to learn it.
Cool
So basically this is the TES version of Polish.
Got it.
Co? XD
@@jakubolszewski8284 W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie.
Confirmed...
More like aztec
@@danielpedraza6455 About the language
Tego się nie spodziewałam xD
Maya Before, Maya After by NativLang looks at Mayan, which is a tenseless language. Its a good video that explains it well imo.
Great video loving these lore videos while I'm in a TES binge.
Those trees made their tools language timeless just to screw with Auriel-katosh ;^p
You mentioned that Jel never really changed after its original creation due to the interconnection of all the Hist trees. However, do you think it's possible that Lilmoth Jel actually *did* change a bit in the early fourth era, due to the events of The Infernal City? Specifically I'm talking about the Lilmoth Hist tree's disconnection from the other Hist trees in favor of Umbriel's Fringe Gyre trees. The book states that Lilmoth Argonians were pretty much universally worried about this, and the inability to connect to other tribes leaves Lilmoth Jel able to evolve separately from the main branch of Jel. Additionally I would wonder if, even without Umbriel's intervention, the Lukiul would have eventually diverged from the An-Xileel due to Imperial influence on their culture.
It really is a shame that there's so little data, or even plain information, about this language. It would be fascinating to study properly.
If the parents gave Lifts Her name, then I feel bad for Her.
Been Studying a little bit of it on my own and I greatly appreciate that you made a video on it definitely going to be a little bit more helpful than a few pages keep up the good work 👍
Good video 👍 Imperial Knowledge. You followed my request !!!
Can you make more language vídeos?
Yoq
Great video!
It's the 4th of July I'm just now waking up. Just got my recurve bow in the mail and I'm drinking coffee while watching imperialknowledge. Great day
Lizard dude: **Speaks in his native language.**
Farengar: “The f*ck?”
I do not know chinese well but I do know that in chinese if you want to say when something happens you literally say when it happened no tense change. For example "my cat run yesterday" or "I do that 5 minutes (ago)"
Love argonians. I became the leader of house telvanni as one in morrowind.
So Argonians don't have the concept of time causality? (B is moving because it was touched by A before)
If they think everything exists in a non linear way when it concers time it seems like so.
Then their ethics and moral maybe really different form other religions, creeds or mindsets that values choice and the consequence of them.
But then I think what's the point of having a language if all Argonians in Tamriel are connected by thought? Are they really telepathic with each other?
Or it just like a hearsay because their language is so near to express perfectly thoughts that foreign people think it's telepathy?
Also:
NINININININININININININININININININI
:|
I like how you can only understand Jel if you are a Black Marsh Argonian. From what I understand, Argonians born outside of Black Marsh can't understand it because they don't have the influence of the Hist.
Is it normal that the *bend will* shout does not work in a City on a Dragon ? Like solitude
I had thought it a bug. Thanks Large Man
I know years late. But if the city wasnt its own loading screen location it would work. But because ir would break the game and even lag out they made it where it dont work. Like it works in cities like dragonreach, or helgen cuz its not its own loaded location.
Jel works very similar to various Asian languages, not just Chinese but yes that is an example. Tenses are weird, but thanks to how Jel works it's very unlikely for us to go to Black Marsh without major retcons to not only the region but also the language. While they can simply just translate it to whatever language is needed the dependance on verbal AND body language would make it very expensive to make a game there since you'd have to still do that body language aspect. All that animating gets expensive.
Im a die hard argonian follow. Im a argonian with a SPEAR !
Heck yeah. Bring back the spears and make some one-handed ones. Fucking hoplite Argonians!
a lot of things can be implied by context. especially Japanese.
Oh nice farengar with another video
I love it when game developers go the extra step by making a unique language for their gameworlds; it really creates a feeling of wholeness. Bethesda should hire a linguist like David J. Peterson (Game of Thrones) or use conlangs (constructed languages) that already exist.
For the Imperial Legion (which is clearly inspired by Rome), Interlingua or Latino Sine Flex would be great since they are basically modernized and simplified versions of Latin.
For the Nords, use Folkspraak or Anglish because they are based on Germanic languages.
For the dragons, use Folkspraak, Anglish, or Proto Indo-European (PIE) because dragons probably predate the many races of Skyrim.
For the other races, read the "Zonal Constructed Languages" article on Wikipedia.
Hiring a linguist could be expensive and time consuming. Using a conlang is easier because the work has already been and some are probably free to use. Search for Interlingua conversations, the Anglish Moot, or the Folkspraak wiki.
Summoned by another. Questions again?
Also , what's the name of that blue creature in 03:13
Naga.
@@thomasharden2012 was it shown in any game in the franchise?
@@saifallahghidhaoui1853 They're in Elder Scrolls Online.
@@urfacecalling101 thanks friend .
Well yes but these ones are undead
How come people from Atmora have a language similar in origin to the Dunmer's or the Khajit's languages ?
Argonians worden geobserveerd door hun ouders, en hun gedrag tijdens deze periode bepaalt hun naam.
DraganGrazic that is not jel, for it is jiberish
Vencidious actually I believe that’s dutch lol. Ik spreek een beetje nederlands
@@turtledeity9920 Ik ook maar het is niet moeilijk als je spreek engels 😄
Since the video is about slaves, I just wish to remind you all that khajiit were once elves and became cat people by choice and thus are officially furrys and deserve to be treated more harshly as slaves (or test rats for telvanni experiments)
Ukko The Dwarf that’s what they believe as a religion, but in reality Tamriel was inhabited by all beast folk before anybody else showed up, including the elves, although once they did show up they stayed for so long you might as well call them natives. Most of the old beast folk races went extinct a long time ago, probably from being overcrowded by the elves or being enslaved by them and the such, but a few are still around like the khajiit and argonians.
@@blonded0532 does not matter, they belive it was a choice, just like furrys
Hail Sithis! He will destroy us all.
..... Then, why are some of them named in English?
Geez. Does everyone in this comment section hate Argonians?
Infiniti Flux I hope not, for I am one
Xhutha niitkleel'eth katxan jehuak tah'eth sekl tloltec'met!
I don’t think there is any language IRL that don’t have time
The Piraha tribe in the amazon doesn't use time in their language, so there are some. probably worth a look to see if there are any more.
I don't mean to be negative, but a ton of information in this video is bad speculation based on bad information. For example, the Ehlnofey (descendants of the Aedra) are the ancestors of men and mer (elves) but NOT Beastfolk (the khaijit and argonians - but also minotaurs, goblins, giants, and even dragons). Jel is explicitly not descended from Ehlnofex (the language of the Ehlnofey).
The Hist don't just store the memories of Argonians - the trees are sentient themselves, and Jel is THEIR language, imparted to Argonians.
It really bothers me when youtubers who style themselves as lore experts don't like. Take a half-hour to refresh their half-baked recollections before writing a script.
China speak best!!
That like to dislike rateo thougj
Filthy lizards.
Indeed but khajiit are worse, they chose to become cats in the merethic era and are officially furrys and should not be ignored when choosing a slave for your mines or fields
@@ukkothedwarf1259 'Khajiit has wares if you have coin.'
@@benjaminbeddow1421 khajiit ARE wares if you got coin
@@ukkothedwarf1259 Yep, but I've heard Argonians fetch a better price.
“Hey, dark brotherhood? I would like to place 2 contracts on some people. Darth Plagueis The Wise, and Ukko The Dwarf. They have disgraced and discriminated us Argonians.
Lies there Talk German 🤔