Duesenberg Les Trem II Revisted, Now With Upgrades!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- A number of months ago I posted a video where I popped a Deusenberg Les Trem II on my Epiphone ES-335, just to see what would happen. I was really impressed by it's ease of installation and excellent user experience. Apparently so were many of you because that has been my most viewed video garnering over 6000 views. (My son recently pointed out that as of this posting, my very first video showcasing the difference between bone and plastic nuts and saddles has somehow recently outpaced it.)
I have been wanting to make this video for a long time, where I revisit the Les Trem and address some of the comments that were mentioned in that video. So, here we are. Today, I reinstall the Les Trem on my ES-335, and add some of the most requested hardware upgrades to my guitar, all to answer the question "Can a guitar stay in tune when using the tremolo bar?"
Today I install the Les Trem I by Duesenberg, but I also install a high quality Roller bridge, as well as a String Butler. Then I do a tuning test to see what the result is.
This video starts a 2-part mini series focused on tuning stability for Gibson style guitars. In my next video, I am going to completely overhaul my buddy's crazy Chibson that sounds amazing but has absolutely abysmal tuning stability. So, make sure to subscribe to catch next week's video!
Featured in this video:
Epiphone ES-335 in Blueberry Burst - www.sweetwater...
Duesenberg Les Trem II - store.duesenbe...
Roller Bridge - www.amazon.com...
Deitrich Parts String Butler - www.amazon.com...
TC Electronic Unitune Clip - www.sweetwater...
Ernie Ball String Winder - www.amazon.com...
Stringjoy 11-50 Nickel Wound Ballanced Medium Strings - www.amazon.com...
Vox AC15 2x15 w/ Greenbacks - www.sweetwater...
I have a string butler on my gretsch G2622T. Works perfectly. I love it.
I've been using the Les Trem II for 3 years in my main guitar and I have found several flaws in its design. One issue when it comes to the tuning stabiliity is that the intonation changes if/when the spring rotates. (this is because of the way that the spring ends are cut). To solve this issue I have super glued the spring to the arm. This will also prevent the spring falling away when bending notes. There are also other flaws with the Trem but the latest one that I've found is that the ~5cm long flat metal bar is too soft/weak for anykind of bending. The metal bar has bent a lot due to bending notes and I doubt that it won't be too long until it has bent so much that I have to ditch the Les Trem II and find something else.
I'm on day one with my XTrem Stud Mount from Guitar Fetish and love it so far.
Incredibly helpful. Thank you, I like your long-form style. Learned a few things, and I've been playing a week or two...
Thanks bud! Sometimes I get self-conscious about how long my videos are. But for some reason, I can’t bring myself to make short, quippy videos. I am who I am, and I am long winded. Lol.
I first tried the Les Trem on my old Les Paul and it worked flawlessly - no tuning issues at all, with the stock bridge and no work to the nut. Then I tried it on a newer ES-335 and it was a disaster. It simply would not stay in tune, despite adding a String Butler and lubricating the nut slots, so I gave up and took of the trem. After watching this, you've given me some new ideas and I might give it another try. Thanks!
Nice video with great tips for trem and bridge install and tweaks!
Is it just me or is this guy really likable ? Love this video.
Awe shucks! Thanks Dan! Make sure to subscribe to see more of my videos. And you may want to check out my Podcast which launches this week!
Dan! This is the channel for my new podcast, if you want to check it out! The first episodes launch on 9/25/22!
very detailed, useful video - thank you !
The inner Bevis and Butt-head in me giggled so hard at "shaft, and Nut Slots" - Great Demo - you've convinced me to Purchase the Trem, Bridge AND butler! Great Video
I have a 2015 Les Paul Classic Sprint Run. It's got standard neck width unlike the 2015 LPC. It also has a titanium zero fret nut. The zero fret nut can easily be adjusted to set the action height at the nut, and there's very little string friction. I installed locking tuners and a Schaller roller bridge on it, which together made the tuning very responsive and stable. Sooner or later I'm going to try a Les Trem or a Bigsby on it, it should be smooth like buttah. I hope it still fits in the case after that.
Yeah, you may want to look into that, as the Les Trem can be bulky!
Excellent video that pleases the tinkerer in me.
Thanksalot - really helpful! Thinking of trying Duesenberg Trem + Schaller Rollernut rig for my Epi 'Wino' Les Paul. Still looking around but appreciate the detail you have gone into, bravo!
Love the feedback. Thank you.
you mean roller-bridge? I don't think Schaller makes a roller-nut.
@@josephfelice601 True, I think they do but they vid I watched suggested a different brand which I need to check out. I didn't catch their name! Looked like it was fitted for Epiphones.
Thanks, really useful advice on the roller Bridge and string thing.
Very cool! I learned a lot from these videos, so thanks! Trouble is I can't find one of these units anywhere and Duesenberg is out of stock. I'll keep looking on reverb and other places. My SG will be like new! Thanks again.
As a Fender guy who got two Epiphones this year, I’ve been curious about all these parts. So, thanks for this! I don’t know if I’ll install a bar on either guitar, but it’s always a thought. My Les Paul Special would be the most likely candidate, but it doesn’t have a stop bar, so I’d have to work up the courage to drill the additional holes for a Les Trem install. (But I did buy it specifically for such experiments.) I’ve also considered trying the Stets Bar, which has a wraparound bridge version, but you have to catch when he has them in stock. I’m looking forward to what you do with the Les Paul Custom!
Thanks Rob! That Les Paul is a Chibson but it is Cool. And it needs a lot of help!
Try Cosmo Music .
Good work you did on that roller bridge.
So I use one of these on an 2010ish Ibanez AM93-QM Jet Blue Burst. Coupled with a roller bridge and and a roller nut and later the addition of two rolling string retainers (the only permanent mod I've made to the this particular guitar) to hold the strings in the nut, as it tended to pop out of the groove when really getting on it, and it stays in tune quite well. And, in my opinion, for tuning stability, this setup is comparable to Floyd rose style bridge of which I own several, both the classic style FR and the FRX for hardtails. Superior product. Oh yeah, did I mention I use the Guyker brand licensed knock off for half the price? Better deal. Same quality and functionality and it doesn't have to ship from Germany.
Your presentation was thorough and very informative Thanks 😊
No, thank you.
thanks a lot, bud ! :D
On my guitar i had to tune it every 1/2H then i changed the tunners for locking ones and now it stays in tune for days. You probably don't need a string butler with locking tunners. I did modified the trem a little by adding a washer to make the spring tension a bit stiffer and it work perfectly with the roller bridge, it stays in tune and plays great! Hey guys if you are looking for a 335 type of guitar you should defenitly take a look at the Musoo copy of a 335 with p90 dogears pickup, flamed maple back and top, groover tunner(that i swapped for locking one). The guitar alone was 300$ CDN on amazone 100 for locking tunners, 250 for les tremII, 25 for roller bridge. A total of 675$ CDN or 530$ us is a real bargain for a 335 with p90 and a trem plus a killer flamed maple look and a dragon inlay headstock, i just love mine even more then my musicman majesty monarchy witch i won't say the price cauz it makes me cry! I still like it but if i compare the price vs the playability, I prefer the Musoo hands down!
Nice! Sounds like a sweet guitar! Yeah, I’m not super sold on the String butler. I do like that it changes the string angle, but I don’t feel that’s necessary with a well cut nut.
I will be trying that probably, I prefer a stiff trem. Thanks for the tip!
One last mod that may take care of what is left of the instability. Locking machine heads, no string wraps to slack off and bind. Works on my strat. Catch phrase ?? ♪♫♪ May the good tone be yours ♫♪♫
Thank you really informative. Was anning on building an SG style with a Les Trem. Will use a roller bridge and string butler maybe even a graph tec nut.
I’d say a high quality roller bridge is a definite upgrade. However, I would vote for a graphtech nut before the String Butler. I’m not really convinced.
@@MillerCustomGuitars a well cut graphtech nut makes the butler useless. I'll try the trem without a roller bridge. some pencil lube should do the trick. I hope :)
With a roller bridge (which I also swapped into my Epi LP) you need to make sure that you find one with the correct radius, or with height-adjustable saddles
A Tone Pro locking bridge with roller saddles would be the ideal for this but they are not cheap. I have a Tone Pro locking bridge on one guitar and once locked that does not move.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE CONTENT! You have given me so much to think about and try. One question, does your ephiphone still fit in your hardcase with the tremelo attatched? Thanks
Your videos are super. Do you prefer the Les Trem over the X-trem for overall tuning stability and quality? Or do you rate them the same?
Love your analytics, thanks again, Marty
Thanks! I really appreciate it! I haven’t tried the X-Trem but I’ll keep an eye out for it
Dude, great video. Thanks.
I’m so glad you enjoyed it!
The thing I don't like about the butler is it can leave indents on the face of the headstock at least on my buddies Gibson it did , he also brought it to me with the headstock broken off so I don't know if the extra mass it added contributed to the headstock break but it certainly left indents in the headstock.
I own a Cort CR250. Do you think it's worth the upgrade to this bridge on my guitar, since my guitar sounds really good and is very well built? I must buy rollerbridge and bridge. Do you suggest, at least on my guitar, since I think mechanics are not good as well as your 335s, to upgrade to locking tuners? If yes, which ones? Thank you very much
For me, the first thing I look at is always the nut. If your nut is good then your tuning stability is probably good. IMO a roller bridge can help a little, but if you’re having lots of stability issues when using a trem (or stability issues at all) check the nut first. Is it cut right, at the right height, are the slots relieved properly, free of burrs, lubed, etc.
@@MillerCustomGuitars mine has already a tusq Nut
@@MillerCustomGuitars mission accomplished. I bought locking tuners, tusq xl nut, rollerbridge and trem. No need of string butler. Can't see result on my Cort. When I'll have a real V I'll do this customization. Thank you for this video
I have a LES Trem on an inexpensive E-335 copy. Other than a little graphite lube in the nut, I have done nothing to it and it stays in tune remarkably.
I ordered 2 Duesenberg Les Tremolo ll’s , one in gold and one in chrome. However, I want to order a roller bridge but one of my guitar's fingerboard radius is 12" and the other is 10" what do I do. Most of them have a 14” radius. That is why I cancelled the roller saddle and opted to lubricate the existing saddles and nut. Any recommendations, please? Any adjustable
height Tune O Matic roller bridges available?
That’s a really good question and I’m not sure
The German made ABM 2400 is a 12" radius roller bridge. It's expensive, so shop around. It's arguably the highest quality roller bridge - there's no slop or errant rattles. I have one on my Gibson Johnny A.
You deserve more subs!
Thank you so much for saying so! There’s nothing I can do about that except for continuing to crank out videos, lol. I appreciate every sub I get!
Should try lubricant on the nut if you haven’t tried. Also they make a string tree that screws into to truss rod cover . I saw one that looks like a tiny skull. Easy install to. Might just be the extra thing you need.
I always lubricate my nuts with pencil graphite or sometime Tri-Flow lubricant (or both). I have seen those skull things and they look neat, even if I don’t care for the skull aesthetic.
I put a Duesenberg Les Trem II on an Epiphone Les Paul Prophecy. I like it, but I'm trying to figure out a way to take a little off of the spring so that the arm sits a bit lower. Yes, I know the arm angle is adjustable, but it still sits too high for me when it's adjusted to be level or parallel with the guitar's top, and I don't want to adjust it so that it tilts downward. I've searched and cannot find a spring with the same specs but shorter, so I'm thinking about grinding off a bit of it. I wonder if anyone else has attempted this?
That is a very interesting question. One that I have never heard asked. Obviously you know how to adjust the arm position and that is not solving your problem.
I have an upcoming project where I am hoping to install this type of tremolo permanently on a Les Paul style guitar. When I do, I will see what I can find out. It might be a while, when that time comes, I will remember you.
Solo necesitas añadir un puente Schaller STM (con rodillos) y una cejuela Tusq Graph para disponer del conjunto perfecto y que tus cuerdas deslicen sin problemas.
Esto puede ser cierto. Sin embargo, en este video intentaba responder preguntas que surgieron en mi video anterior sobre este sistema de vibrato.
Hope Google translate works on this! I was trying to say: This may be true. However in this video I was attempting to answer questions that were brought up in my previous video about this vibrato system.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Por supuesto, amigo. Sólo era una sugerencia en pro de mejorar el rendimiento del sistema.
Saludos desde España.
@@msmm.2871 Gracia y saludos desde California!
I have a Heritage H150. The headstock does not have really wide angled string splays. That's a terrible design flaw with Gibsons. They will never change it because the Headstock is such an iconic part of their branding.
Yeah, Gibson literally can’t change. If they released a model that addressed all the design flaws (week neck joint, string break angle, too heavy, better sounding pickups from literally every aftermarket pickup manufacturer, etc), the Gibson boys would riot and they wouldn’t sell.
@@MillerCustomGuitars And when Epiphone produce better guitars Gibson shuts it down. I actually have an old Epiphone SG style guitar from the 1990s made in the Korean Samick factory. It had two flaws. Poor pickups and poor bridge but once this was solved it was better than actual Gibson SGs I have tried. The Epiphone cost me £200 on ebay and a few hundred more for really good pickups and replacement bridge.
I think Gibson do produce one good pickup though and that's the Classic 57. They seem to be restricting distribution of this. Probably because you can take a cheap guitar, put these in and it will be great.
@@ryanstark2350 I haven’t tried a ton of Gibson pick ups, but I haven’t really liked any of the ones that I have tried. I just know that Fralin, Duncan, Lollar, Bareknuckle, not to mention the small Winders basically everywhere, or making their own versions of the PAF’s that everyone raves about.
But I do know, is that the pick ups in the guitar featured in this video, my ES-335 are awesome. I don’t know what the spec is on them or who made them. They just sounds great. I have no intention or desire to change them.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Epiphone’s pickups are now good but the old ones were bad. Gibson”s pickups are not great but the Classic 57s are. They are really great in brighter guitars like SG style. The problem is that most Gibson guitars these days are woolly and muddy sounding unless you go mega expense Murphy Lab versions. In standard muddy Gibsons the 57s fail.
@@ryanstark2350 yeah that’s been my experience as well. I can’t stand muddy pickups. I want pickups with clarity
Hey man great video. Which would you say stands a better chance of staying in tune: an LP with a string butler or a PRS headstock with the string pull not straight through but not as angled as a regular LP?
Honestly, I think the PRS would have a better chance of staying in tune. However, as I was trying to show in this video tuning stability is never just one thing. Check out my follow up video to this video, where I looked at the red less Paul copy. On that video I treated every apart on that guitar and in the end ended up with a really stable guitar.
However, if you started with a stable tuning guitar in the first place, you wouldn’t need to do all that stuff.
@@MillerCustomGuitars I'll check out that vid right away thanks. reason(s) behind choosing the prs style?
@@Modelguits Paul designed PRS guitars specifically to solve the problems with Fender and Gibson and Style guitars. They are designed to have super stable necks, really stable tuning, and easy playability because of the scale length.
Personally, I’ve never played a PRS that I’ve fallen in love with but they are awesome guitars. I’m sure I just haven’t played the right one for me.
Very cool video video
Thanks!
@@MillerCustomGuitars you're welcome my guitar frend
Is the bar limber enough to be able to strum with it ? The type of music I like they usually use the technique of holding the bar while they strum to create a wave of sound and I’ve been considering getting this thing but if it isn’t able to do this than idk if it’s the right fit for me
Yeah, I think it is.
Man you sound like my uncle right before he had to have a quadruple bypass. Might want to get checked out.
That’s nothing! You should hear me talk for an hour and drink Scotch on my new podcast! th-cam.com/video/NHDNgUggwp4/w-d-xo.html
By the way I do get checked out and the doc says I’m pretty healthy overall
Great didactic video friend !!!
No joke, I had to look up the definition of the word didactic. Thanks Cisco! Can I call you Cisco? I love nick names.
“Didactic” means “preachy” as in, “intended to instruct, morally”
It’s generally not a compliment to call something didactic.
@@marcsullivan7987 hey man, I choose to take it as a compliment. I was intending to instruct, with a moral ulterior motive. The motive was that your guitar should be in tune, lol. But also I was intending to learn, and I did.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Yes, no problem. I'm from Spain, I didn't use correct word. I´d want said "instructive, educational..." maybe. Thanks.
Hi, do we really have to use roller bridge with the les trem Ii?
No, definitely not. In a previous video I had talked about the Les Trem in a previous video and many people had asked me about a roller trem. I personally don’t LOVE roller trems even though I have used them and have an upcoming project where I’m planing to use one again. Honestly the nut is much more important.
@@MillerCustomGuitars thanks for clarifying
Hey guys can the Les trem be fitted to an epiphone les Paul junior?
So, I'm not the expert on this, but I don't think so, since the LPJ incorporates the stop bar and the saddles into one piece. The Les Trem is intended to replace the traditional Stop Bar, when used with a Tune-O-Matic style bridge. Hope that helps.
Does it effect the right hand? Like palm muting and such?
Not at all!
Very good. The Butler is fugly though.
I don’t think it’s that noticeable, especially from the audience.
do you have to intonate the new roller bridge or can i just put it on if my guitar has been setup fairly recently?
Yes, Daniel. If you replace the bridge with rollers you would definitely want to redo the intonation.
@@MillerCustomGuitars ya I have a Les Trem ii and a roller bridge set to be delivered tomorrow and it's for my Epiphone Les Paul Custom. initially i thought I would be able to do the install myself but now i'm thinking i'm gonna need to take it to a shop to make sure it's properly intonated and everything because I struggle with setups.
@@danielcarter3928 Well, it’s not for me to say. I’m sure that you know your own abilities. However both of those are pretty simple jobs. I bet you could do it!
@@MillerCustomGuitars i did it myself! this thing is awesome!
@@danielcarter3928 great job Daniel! I knew you could do it!
One word..."STETSBAR".
I have both and both work well. Pros and cons are that Doosy2 is half price, sleaker in design and I had the Stetsbar arm break and replaced under warranty.
Another thing that improves tuning stability is at least two full winds on all your wound strings. And four plus winds on the unwound strings. Stretching those strings thoroughly helps a lot also. Stretching is a must especially on guitars with a floyd rose trem. Expect to tune your Floyd equipped guitar six to eight times in at least a 24 hour time period before it stays in tune until the next string change. If it's that much work on a Floyd rose it's even more work on the non Floyd trems.
Definitey
I have four USA strats 3 with spertzel locking tuners and rolling nuts and two post floating terms and one 50th anniversary no rolling nuts and two post floating trem, I can change the strings in the morning and gig all night with no tuning issues, super bullets really work well with these trems
Nice beard.
You're probably making fun of me, but I'll take it.
..add a layer of epoxy to the arm.
..string butlers are great, but i think string trees would work as well-more economically..
Dude, the idea was ok, but your explaining... 27 + minutes, while you could have done it in 3. Plus you are trying too hard, and it comes out forced. And who except americans watch american football? Youve lost my interest in that example.
Sorry man, over-explaining things is kind of my brand, lol! My channel is all about very detailed explanations and half hour videos. If you think that's long you should watch my Eart Strat overhaul or one of my Guitar Kit videos which were over 50 minutes long. Anyway, hope you learned something.
@@MillerCustomGuitars yeah bro, no hard feelings, its just an overkill. I think it is too much talking and too much paralel examples with stuff that has nothing to do with tremolos. You overtalk. But its just my opinion, doenst mean I am right. The idea is good, and I am sure the video is educational, its just too boring for me, couldnt even watched it till the end. It doesnt mean you are bad at it. Its just too much talking for me. Sretno brate!
@@Crunch0123 lol, no hard feelings. I know my videos are not for everybody. Thanks for watching anyway.
Omg 13 minutes in and you still haven’t played a note.
Honestly, nothing beats the fender trem in price, elegance and ease of use. You can get a trem (cheap zinc one) for $25.00 and a wilson tremolo (at Guitar Fetish) with a steel block and saddles for around $39.00. Most of these advertised trems for LP's, SG.s, 335's and tele's are just plain ugly and at best have very little touch sensitivity.
I can use my fender trem with just the palm of my hand and get wonderful results. It just seems like someone (anyone) could come up with a similar trem for a LOT LESS MONEY! I don't mean to be rude, but there is nothing really great about these trem systems that could justify this outragous price of $106.00 to $164.99 and again, they just don't work very well at all. Even if you were to route out your LP (GOD FORBID) and put in a Floyd Rose... IMHO, it's just ugly and bulky and not a good solution.
Until someone figures this trem problem out with the LP's etc...just get a cheap strat and upgrade the pups and the bridge (zinc to steel block) with steel saddles and locking tuners (you can get locking tuners at the stratosphere for $20.00-$50.00). Just my honest opinion. Peace.
Love my strats man, but I don’t always want to play one. I do agree that many of the trem solutions for Gibson style guitars are bulky and inelegant. I have found the Les Trem to be neither. It installa without any permanent modifications to your guitar and works flawlessly. From subtle to divebomb. It’s truly awesome.
LOL.
what about graphtec saddles vs going roller saddle? i used graphtec on a non tremolo once liked the tone