Optimal Rest Punishes - Super Smash Bros. Melee
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Do you hate Puff? Ever wonder what the best way to punish her rest is? If you answered yes, then this video's just for you. In this tutorial, Kira goes over the various ways the most popular characters can kill or rack up damage on Puff while she's asleep!
Thanks to the following channels for providing footage!:
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Luigi taunt is the only optimal option.
BlackoXP Nah just taunt
BlackoXP do it for the meme
taunt into misfire
Ha ha ha ha (sarcastic laugh) get it? Its not true... 😒
@MaskedGiygas r/whoosh
True Falcon mains always go for the Falcon punch over F-smash, regardless of which kills earlier.
I punish with a taunt and then a jab wake up.
Stomp to grab
Ganondorf stomp at like any %
Falcon punch is actually optimal at a high level. Puff can amsah tech f-smash whereas she can’t amsah tech falcon punch.
They use falcon punch because it's optimal, since if you are coming from the angel platform, you can start falcon punch mid air and save time
"What's he gonna do scar? What's wizzy gonna do?"
"Stomp grab."
*wizzrobe does stomp grab*
stomp grab
PK Flash kills at 35%. If you need damage as Ness you can do dair to aerial, but the REAL high damage rest punish is YYG, get a thunder jacket, board a platform, then start spamming upB at the puff.
Falcon/warlock punch is optimal in some situations because you can start it in the air to save time. Same as marths sheild breaker.
Also does extra knockback when hit in the air
Falcon can full hop for 8 frames --> DJ --> falcon punch and it hits. Always optimal punish KO% wise
3:03 No, always go for the falcon punch
>optimal rest punishes
>doesn't mention phantom hits
OOOOOOOF
Samus can run to the other side of the stage and do a jump strong missile cancel chargeshot, so you get the percent from strong missile before chargeshot hits. It does about 37%
Walrusasauras That's really cool. Do you charge shots immediately afterwards or do you have to wait first?
im basically mashing B after the missile input so that it comes out as soon as you land
If you hold down at 0 and shield the charge shot will be shielded.
Then you super wavedash and keep the pressute obviously
Rest Punishment
Fox 0:38
Falco 1:06
Shiek/Zelda 1:34
Marth 2:09
Peach 2:28
Cpt.Falcon 3:02
Jgglypuff 3:24
Samus 3:41
Pikachu 3:56
Ice Climbers 4:11
Dr. Mario 4:37
Mario 4:50
Luigi 5:02
Ganondorf 5:13
Yoshi 5:23
You can thank me later ;)
Willie Lee you forgot Luigi
You forgot Bowser and Pichu
Chris Williams ha ha ha (sarcastic laugh) get it? Its not true 😒
Thank you later : 3
Pretty sure the best punish for Pikachu on Jiggs at low percents is a fully charged side b.
nah that shit is weak as balls
>A fully charged upsmash kills absurdly early
...in NTSC, yes :^)
Yeah some from the balanced Meleeide of the World!
I wish i had ntsc
0:37 fox
1:06 falco
1:35 sheik
2:10 marth
2:30 peach
3:02 falcon
3:23 puff
3:42 samus
3:56 pikachu
4:12 IC
4:38 doc
4:50 mario
5:02 luigi
5:13 ganon
5:23 yoshi
No kirby? We kirby mains always forgotten
I’m a sheik main and I already knew what her optimal rest punishes were, but it’s interesting to see some of the other characters’ optimal punishes too. Nice video.
SSB_Seal no one cares
+zion. Incorrect
SSB_Seal as a fellow sheik main, please impart your wisdom sir
Applea isjeod hw wants you to know he mains sheik
i see you literally everywhere
I’m a puff main and thanks for the valuable info I definitely didn’t know to rest the opponent if they miss their rest
What about Roy's reverse up b? easily the harder and fastest punish on Jigglypuff's rest
I'm pretty sure Jigglypuff can SDI into the rest of the up-b and survive
It's set knockback, so it only works on FD, Yoshi's and maybe PS but i'm not sure
As a Roy main I'll correct some misinformation here. Stadium has a lower ceiling than FD so there's no way it could work on FD and not Stadium lol.
Anyway, it actually is only guaranteed on YS. If they DI well, they can survive on any other stage, even Stadium (barely). Also to the person talking about SDI, you can mix up which direction you do the up b to cause the Jiggs to SDI the wrong way. That's assuming it's even possible, which I'm not actually sure of.
Also, if you have time, Roy has an even better rest punish, fully charged neutral B.
You can also set up combos into roy upb pretty consistently, or if they are on side platforms it become garanteed on battlefield and poke
As someone who used to play a lot of Roy, Puff can definitely SDI into the later hitboxes of the up-b and live. She ends up pretty close to him in the air. That move is never guaranteed unless the Puff doesn't SDI properly, and it is really easy to SDI it.
It's great to have Kira back on this channel along with CDK! And this video was super helpful! Keep it up!
For Luigi, it's also a good idea to charge his down b on the ground before going for the shoryuken.
Finally a post that applys to both intermediate and beginners. I can see the benefits of posting so many posts that apply to beginners it’s just I was getting bored of how many there were. Thanks for listening ;)
RIP this channel. Was such an informative channel and they just stopped uploading for some reason
You forgot desync f smash w/ nana into grab to wobble at low %
It looks sick as well
4:32
Just figured out what "SoPo" was due to this video. I always thought people meant "NanPo" or something. I've never really played Melee (only Brawl and Smash 4), but it's really fun to watch.
I always rage when I see marths go for tipper f-smash instead of roll behind d-smash on rest. It's easier to set up and kills like 20% earlier.
Plus the Fsmash is actually Amsah Techable unlike the dsmash setup
Obviously this is an old video but icies optimal punishing pre 40% is actually desynced charged nana fsmash into grab with popo leading to a wobble setup. It's sounds hard but it's quite easy if you've learn your desynced setups. I prefer spot dodge desync for this particular one.
Missed Roy up b insta kill
I have to add something to your Restpunish for ICs. Spotdodge do desynch - > Charge F-Smash with the CPU-Climber. TAUNT. right after your taunt is finished, the CPU Climber will release the full charged F-Smash and you get the grab. Pummel and you have the Wobble-Setup
So when is the rest of the tier list
Plexa those where my fav smash vids and I wait every day lol
Mewtwo's rest punish can be a little elaborate, but tricky. From 0-10% you get a double fair. Between 25-35% you can dair into grab, pummel once or twice into uthrow. This is a pretty nice 31%ish punish but takes a bit of practice. Anything above 60% just charge a side or dsmash. My little problem is from 15-20% its hard to really do much. I guess just a fully charged ball, but this isn't an option if you're coming back from a connected rest because well, Mewtwo isn't exactly hard to rest.
No upvotes? You're a real one rapidretrovenue
Weird Link/Young Link wasn't included here considering we have had tons of top level matches between the two.
On stages with platforms for fox : falling up air to drill onto the platform into grab pummel once into up throw bair or up air depending on the percent
for a non-SDI'able non-mashable wobble as a rest punish you can start the desync'd blizzard, then grab puff just before the first hitbox comes out. this ensures an optimal punish.
You can also desynch charge down smash with Nana and grab with Popo right after the hit to punish with ICs, this gives you a perfect wobble setup and you won't have to worry about SDI or mashing out passed like 15ish%
For Roy, if you're on a low ceiling stage, make sure Jigglypuff is at 20% ~ 30/40% and do a reverse up-B to only hit with the first up-B hitbox. That will garentee you a star KO.
Low ceiling stages:
Yoshi's Story
Final Destination
Pokémon Stadium
I think the first hit of Roy’s up B has set knockback actually, so it can kill at 0%
@@SSBMTutorials Yeah, but if the second hitbox hits it might not work. So I think it's better to rap up percent before doing it! :D
I'm glad you did Mario, coming from a new rising Mario player.
You can also do a soft, landing up air with sheik. It can combo into a tipper up smash at some mid percents (I don't remember off the top of my head) to kill.
TFW You watched the whole video waiting to see what cool punishes your main has... & your mains (Link, Bowser & Pichu) aren't in it
But my girl Zelda got a shoutout \^O^/
So true! I'm not sure why this channel doesn't feature any Link/Y. Link content.
Because this channel mostly panders to the Top 8 Characters such as Fox, Falco, Sheik etc. That's why the majority of their videos feature those characters. As someone who mains 3 Low Tiers basically it woulddddd be nice to get some content on them. I mean, just because they're Low Tier doesn't mean that we have to pretend they're not in the cast because that's just mean
As a Sheik and Peach main who didn't know about this, Sheik's optimal punishes are a bit disappointing but Peach's look pretty neat! Gotta try those out soon.
With link you can throw boomerang over her, time fsmash so it hits her in order of fsmash 1, boomerang return, fsmash 2
I thought I was gonna see skilled Roy up-B
also, with Samus you can take distance and trow a super missile along with the charged shot in a way they hit togeter but the charge shot hits last.
This works fine when puff is at a percent where grounded d-air puches him up or when you need an extra 10% to reach kill %.
Or you can just do it to build more damage if you are not sure of your kill%, since super missile + charge shot is like 35%, and the knock back may give enough time to charge another shot.
I love flaming peeps to oblivion with jiggly puff
Just a quick mention for Yoshi, down smash kills earlier but you're at a risk for an Amsah tech from the Jigglypuff player. Forward Smash also deals more damage than Down Smash. This is why Kira mentions Forward Smash rather than Down Smash.
I never knew that Yoshi's down smash did more damage than his down smash. Good to know.
Pizza Shark I was talking about Forward Smash but I'll edit it to make it clearer lmao
With Mario, Puff can Amsah tech the FSmash and live. Cape spam into upsmash is safer if Puff is in the center of the stage or you don't have time to fsmash on the inner side of the stage.
Has Kira come back?
No Puffs were harmed in the making of the video.
No comment wars? Fine let me try: Who do you think benefits more from shine Fox or Falco?
both they're shines are amazing but i say fox. Falco has moves like up tilt and down tilt that can pop his opponent up in his combo game (obviously not quite as good as his shine though due to shines hit stun) but Fox has no other move that can be used the same way as his shine during combos. also Fox has the off stage shine spikes too of course which is huge
Against floaties, Fox’s shine is better.
Against fast fallers, Falco’s is better.
Falco on ground, Fox in the air
using both character's shines to cover for their aerials that hit an opponent's shield are really good applications of the shine. I think both characters lose a lot of their combo game without shine, but I'd say Falco loses a lot more because he relies on his shine to be relevant in the neutral and combo games whereas fox can get away with more without blipping. Fox uses it more effectively, but Falco NEEDS his more than Fox does for their characters' strengths and weaknesses.
dddmemaybe
Disagree. Fox’s shine makes him the best character. One of its biggest strengths being that it has set knock back. He can use it to get grabs and up smashes easily against floatie characters whereas Falco’s, while useful for getting reliable damage at low and mid percents, doesn’t lead to a guarantee kill set up on the entire cast.
Fox’s is also better out of shield because of its range.
Fox also has better shield pressure than Falco.
Falco is relevant in neutral because of his big hitboxes and laser. Not so much shine.
Hi Kira!
Looking back at this you can see marths optimized punish with zain but still applicable
You should do a video about moves staling. I feel like it is the only tech that no one really understands fully. Also you talked about it in this video a lot
Prologue: sorry to all puff mains. OK so the Fox punish in here isn't actually the best. Depending on your player port and where puff rests you, you can get between 2 and 3 lasers by fastfalling off the platform and shooting a laser right before you land, then, if she's far away, running towards her and doing a SH laser that lands you right in front of her, or, if she's close to where you respawn, firing two standing lasers. Now that you're right next to puff, Fox can actually combo drill grab on her because of how light she is. On puff, a perfect drill is +8 on hit and his grab comes out on frame 7 giving you a 2 frame window to pull this off, tight but possible. 2-3 Lasers and a drill add up to 16-25% (if you can't get at least 11% on a SH drill maybe just up smash); in this range, grab, pummel, into buffered up throw, while not guaranteed, is really, really hard to mash out of and brings our total to 25-35%. At this point, the most guaranteed followup is bair making the total punish 40-50%.
Notes: drill grab is really hard to SDI out of if the fox fades forward during the dair, but is technically possible. To deal with this, do a turnaround up tilt into bair/upair instead of grab. For anyone who knows frame data and thinks, "hey I should just do that all the time since turnaround up tilt is 2 frames faster than grab" that gives up the guaranteed aerial followup since puff can crouch cancel it, but do you. If you're playing a puff with great SDI on upairs, trade out the up throw for a down throw if the puff rests you at anything higher than 25%, and try to techchase for an upsmash.
th-cam.com/video/MHucnC1JYtI/w-d-xo.html
0:55 of this video for Hax getting rested in a position where he could get 3 lasers.
Isn't fully charged skull bash the best damage Pikachu can do?
Justin Jones yes and it kills very early near the ledge
yeah but pikachu has the best up smash ib the game. It sends farther than Fox's so why not use that option.
cause if skull bash is stronger than up smash there is not point in using up smash
As a jiggs main. Delete this
Edit: I'm a Falco main now. So keep this up boys.
*Delet this
None of this matters if you don't miss rests in the first place. 🧐
I A G R E E
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As a person who gets rekt by Jiggs a lot. No
Typical jiggs main, not wanting people to know the tools they have... Lol. I see parallels with Hbox
i would say reverse warlock punch
but ganon doesn't have that until brawl
For yoshi, If you can L cancel it reliably I reccomend down air to down smash, and if they are on a side platform down grounded down B is good as well.
Also a note for Yoshi mains, full charged reverse upsmash kills earlier but harder timing to set up than fsmash.
The Fox punishes aren't the most damage. Long knowledge comment incoming. (All %s assume no staleness on any of the moves)
Lasers (X%) > Up Throw (all lasers hit 8%) > Up Air (both hits 18%) isn't the most damage possible at 26% from the attacks. Even including the one pummel adding 3% putting it up to 29% isn't the most.
Lasers (X%) > Drill (I'll go with 1 hit, 3%) > Up Tilt (12%) > Up Air (18%) = 33% from attacks alone, and this is the lowest possible damage. More likely it'd be like this.
Lasers (X%) > Drill (3 hits, 7%) > Up Tilt (12%) > Up Air (18%) = 37%
Drill > Up Tilt is guaranteed even on bad drill fastfall. After you L-Cancel the drill, you have a 2 to 3 frame window to input the up tilt so it's pretty lenient. If you include the frame of vulnerability normal spot dodge has, add another frame of leniency. If you're including buffered spot dodge's extra frame of shield, add 2 frames. At best, you have technically 5 frames of leniency. At worst, you have 3. You could unluckily up tilt the shield frame if you're that slow, but then you just up tilt again and it hits. Yes, drill can be SDI'd but most people won't know about a rest punish starting with drill and won't try to SDI, and it's very very hard to SDI enough off of 3 drill hits to make Drill > Up Tilt not work. You could probably get away with more than 3 hits. There's another version of this that might be "safer."
Best case scenario:
Lasers (X%) > Drill (7%) > Grab > Pummel (3%) > Up Throw (8%) > Up Air (18%) = 36%
Drill > Grab is guaranteed on puff on both good and bad drill fastfall. Technically, on bad drill fastfall you have to be frame perfect. On good drill fastfall you get one frame of leniency. This is technically because as I mentioned earlier, spot dodge has one frame of vulnerability and buffered spot dodge gives two frames of delay/vulnerability, but you can grab the shield. So overall, at the worst, you have to be frame perfect. At best, you have 3 frames of leniency.
If you're a memelord, you can do:
Lasers (X%) > Drill (7%) > Up Smash (18%) and if at low enough percent > Up Air (18%) = 43%
Up Smash has the same start up as grab so everything I said about grab applies here except for if you get unlucky and hit the frame of shield. Then you're as good as grabbed/rested.
Yoshi is considered a common character... we really are in the brightest timeline.
Pikachus best punish damage-wise is fully charged side b. Do that if you can't kill puff
Idk about y’all but I’m really digging more Kira appearances
Man I came here to maybe find something to help kirby but imma just stick with up smash up air then
for link and young link I think it's similar to peach's turnips, best I could do was a bomb, throw up to one side of jiggs, jump to the other side, land with L cancelled fair (hitting them into the bomb) and then connecting a dair off the bomb
I’m a puff main and a huge fan of this channel but I wish this video wasn’t made now
im a puff main too, not worried tho. as long as you dont miss rests they cant punish ;)
You can pretty easily throw an egg behind yourself into charged upsmash or down b as yoshi
I see Kira is trying to end HBox's winning streak.
Also Marth's fully charged neutral B kills sooner than fully charged down smash.
Who ever made this video, why did you not just include all the characters rather then most? I mean it would only be about 2 or 3 minutes longer! I thought TH-cam is encouraging TH-camrs to make longer videos, so i guess you can say that maybe this "OPTIMAL" rest video isn't really optimal for a Kirby main or an Ness main.... anways good video and and it was really helpful for the characters you did listed with calm music and HD wide-screen to combo with! 😁👌👍
With Ice Climbers, a charged Nana f-smash into immediate Popo grab is better than blizzard at low percents because they cannot easily SDI out.
roy you can get first hit of revers up b and kills at 0% off the top on FD
As a puff main, this was really interesting.
you should play around with it and look up some other videos too. some of Kiras stuff is ok but he does miss a bunch and has some incorrect data. resources like the Puff RnD on Facebook are really good btw if you want to join you can go on FB and request to join and someone will accept
More stuf like this pleaase! great video
Where's Falco's downtilt?
This should have mentioned the tomber grab (nana charge fsmash grab) i think it's much more consistent than the blizzard if you're good
For ic, instead of desync blizzard, I find desync fsmash to grab more reliable. I saw wobbles do it to hbox once. It's also easier than it sounds
Ic's can also do down throw -> Nana fair -> popo grab to wobble. Puff can't get out of it.
tf of all the low tiers young link should have definitely been covered. smash throw bomb above puff, pull a second bomb, wait for first bomb to connect then jump throw the bomb you pulled and double jump dair (if no plat above the puff)
On pikachu you forgot to mention a fully charged side B. It is the highest damage single move that pika has and if the Usmash/Fsmash won't kill her it is the best punish because of the percent.
Holy crap I’ve been playing Mario for three months and I never knew about his cape punish.
I don't know how it effects other characters, but if Puff crouche cancels the turnip she can rest Peach.
Also, Peach can get about 48% when not above a platform from turnip throw, go behind puff, reverse down tilt to down smash.
Dsmash can be SDId up, Puff can't CC if she's airborne after a nair. If % is low enough, I do believe Puff can DI the nair to CC, however. With that said, I do miss your old profile pic.
The best way to punish Jigglypuff with Marth is simple charge after bit to where when it's fully charged they just have enough time to Shield this will give the other player a false sense of hope into thinking they'll be able to survive but the shield will break and Jigglypuff will die
Pikachus skull bash is also rly strong if you have time
Discovered a doosey. if rest is completely missed on sheik, sheik can confirm a kill at 50 like everywhere lol.
Turn into zelda, push, roll behind, fully charge fsmash. Last hit is the only one that connects and kills 20% earlier than toe.
Its easier if you roll in front then hit puffs ear, but if you have to do the other side you can start your dash and cancel the first 3 frames of it into charging smash to confirm the last hit only
Kira's back WHAT!?!?!?1
I felt terrible when Jigglypuff died at 19% before the hit from Ganon's up-tilt mid screen.
Uh oh
Dude I'm a ness main and whenever someone using jiggly puff rests wrong. Pk Flash (neutral B) is the best option. Also you forgot Roy's reverse up-B, THAT IS DANGEROUS! It will destroy jiggly puff. I definitely feel it should've had a spot in the punishes tutorial
Can we just talk about Peach's turnip that falls through battlefield at 2:42?
Optimal punish for Link is to jump + boomerang throw past puff into charged fsmash + return boomerang hit + second hit of fsmash when puff is at low %s. Full charge Dsmash kills very early, and of course, sweetspot dair kills early.
P.S. Idk why this channel hates on Link/Y. Link so much?
How I should decide between Roll out and F-smash
Thanks
I don't understand how to use the luigi cyclone as a recovery, no matter how fast I mash it doesn't work. And yes, I do charge it
Good info. Thanks, y'all.
For Ice Climbers: If you grab quickly enough after the blizzard, i.e. grab right as the first hitbox of blizzard connects, they can't SDI or mash out and you can get a guaranteed wobble at 0%. It requires pretty good timing, but is definitely doable with a bit of practice, and it's worth practicing due to how easy it is for Puff to SDI up out of blizzard.
Example because I love plugging my own matches: th-cam.com/video/JNHLLess3MM/w-d-xo.htmlm10s
Listen this is that good good
Sad that YL wasn't here. Oh well, nice video regardless!
I thought forwardB was the best punish with Pikachu?
can you plz make a video all about counters
prinses and swordsman spike
Mario's upsmash is a mostly more reliable option than fsmash. Also Doc can upsmash into fair if the jiggs isnt expecting it and or doesnt know the right DI.
Good video otherwise.
Falcon punch will always be the most optimal rest punish
On 0% ICS have desync fsmash into grab wobble
There is only one true punish and of course it is performed by the best character in the game which is no other than our talented boi.
Pikachu wants to fully charge side b for the most % and to unstale if u smash won't kill
Is first hit up-air pivot uptilt worse than grabbing and upthrowing as Fox?