Keen to see progress. I just used redtop version in my 165 for my first build. But have a BT head and 5s block for rnd 2. Esp keen to see how you mod the big breather/drain in coolant neck and externally feed the vvti.
I am currently running an unbuilt Manual Blacktop Beams in my MR2 (only full swap I'm aware of in an MR2). I will build it now that I am confident I got the swap in there correctly. I was considering using the 5S block for a big power build when I realized the blacktop block was made in the same generation as the coveted 98+ 5S block so casting material would be of similar quality. When i compared the two blocks side by side, I wasn't able to see why the 5S block would hold up any better than the Blacktop block. Having said that, I didn't do any sonic testing or any other in depth analysis comparing the two blocks. In my opinion sticking with the blacktop block may be a more straightforward build for anyone considering running the blacktop head. Either way I love the 5S + Blacktop combo idea and am very interested. Cudos for taking on this project and for sharing!
nice, in a sw20 or aw? the backtop block certainly makes things easier. I have ultrasonic tested both the late model 3s and 5s blocks. the 5s has on average 1mm extra bore thickness and is a harder material. the 3s block will hold around 500hp depending on cylinder pressure.
Would it make sense to utilize 5sgte pistons and have them machined for the valve angle ? If not, what are the necessary measurements for this kind of custom piston ?
I wonder if the stock 5s pistons wouldn't work with the beams head/valves? The 3s pistons have way too much of a dome, but the 5s pistons look pretty close. Don't know what they would give you for compression, but they would be more likely to work that the gen2/3 3sge pistons.
the 5S pistons do have a lot of dish so you might end up with a reasonble CR. Im not sure what the valve angle of the 5S is would could be an issue. anyway, the 5S pistons were never designed to handle boost so it was never an option for me. they may work as a budget low boost setup
@@hawes_power5590 For sure no boost, or minimal boost. I was thinking in the context of doing a really cheap 5sge, could you do something so simple and see good results?
valve angles are completely different from the Beams to the 3SGT head, if you use any non Beams pistons make sure to clay the head for piston to valve clearance
@@hawes_power5590 thanks bro... Will probably be a couple of years before it is ready for the road.... Am only wanting 250-300hp out of it... Do you have any tips on what I will need apart from the turbo and ecu... I would like to stay relatively high comp and low boost if that makes sense
@@nigelsmith7366 you can run that power on a factory engine. use a big turbo running low boost to keep the engine alive down low. but anymore and you want upgraded rods, pistons and head studs.
This is an interesting build, looking forward to seeing how it turns out! Question: Isn't it recommended to use a torque plate to clamp down on the block before doing the cylinder walls and headstuds so it will "preflex" into it's final shape? Or not necessary on iron blocks?
There isn't much choice for 5S rods, these maxspeeding rods are underrated. The custom pistons were well priced, and they had all the 3s specs in terms of valve angle etc. hopefully it all holds together
Finally someone ballsy enough to take on this challenge and put the info out. Been contemplating this set up for my tezza for a while. P.S. Got a link to those valve springs? And are you retaining VVT-I?
haha. Yeah I'm sure it has been done before, but as you say, no one has documented it. i got them from Kennelly cams in NZ www.kcams.co.nz/ Yes defiantly retaining the VVTi, its the main advantage of this head. although the do have superior port design etc
Hi I am trying to Follow and copy most of the build for my altezza With the J160 trans. Would you be able to give me some more info on the pistons? Who I would need to talk to to make me some? I have the car and a Running 5sge, so just need to buy the Beams head and other 3sge parts.
Hey fellow kiwi here. I built a 5sgte around 2018 using the manual blacktop head, custom rods, pistons, full cnc head, cam upgrade, full ferrea valvetrain. Running ext. oil pressure ported using an line to activate the variable cam timing. Partial grout filled block, stud kit etc. Stuck it into a TA22 and a built R154, LSD streeter
it is possible, but the engines are very hard to even lift, let alone throw on top of another engine. you would have to be very strong. all jokes aside, I presume you mean a beams head onto a 3sgte block. kind of, the head will bolt on but the valves will hit the 3sgte pistons due to the different valve angle. so custom pistons are require
clearly the 5SFE was never intended to be a performance engine, but it is underpowered compared to the 3sge, or honda B series or even a 4age from the same era
@Hawes_Power oh,of course,just saying it's within standard power for that market,not on the lower end; like say a D series. Certainly nothing that puts 100 to the wheels is exhilarating lol.
Just bolting mine up at the moment going into a Caldina. Went the Grey Top single VVTi. Had all the same issues your talking about. Great vid.
cheers, the greytop is certainly a more strait forward job and is very close to the blacktop performance
Looking forward to this as the poor supra has been neglected will get to see how the motor responds in this first
Keen to see progress. I just used redtop version in my 165 for my first build. But have a BT head and 5s block for rnd 2. Esp keen to see how you mod the big breather/drain in coolant neck and externally feed the vvti.
you'll get to learn from my mistakes haha
I am currently running an unbuilt Manual Blacktop Beams in my MR2 (only full swap I'm aware of in an MR2). I will build it now that I am confident I got the swap in there correctly. I was considering using the 5S block for a big power build when I realized the blacktop block was made in the same generation as the coveted 98+ 5S block so casting material would be of similar quality. When i compared the two blocks side by side, I wasn't able to see why the 5S block would hold up any better than the Blacktop block. Having said that, I didn't do any sonic testing or any other in depth analysis comparing the two blocks. In my opinion sticking with the blacktop block may be a more straightforward build for anyone considering running the blacktop head. Either way I love the 5S + Blacktop combo idea and am very interested. Cudos for taking on this project and for sharing!
nice, in a sw20 or aw?
the backtop block certainly makes things easier.
I have ultrasonic tested both the late model 3s and 5s blocks. the 5s has on average 1mm extra bore thickness and is a harder material. the 3s block will hold around 500hp depending on cylinder pressure.
@@hawes_power5590 oh cool! Late model 3S as in the blacktop beams? Blacktop was the last even later than redtop and gen4… I am in an SW20
@@hawes_power5590 Have you ultrasonic tested the blacktop block specifically? I am curious if it might be stronger than the other 3S blocks
@@theshadowofalepton5178 yes i tested the blacktop
so...i had to sub because of that little skit @0:55 hahahaha
Would it make sense to utilize 5sgte pistons and have them machined for the valve angle ?
If not, what are the necessary measurements for this kind of custom piston ?
you could do that. but considering custom pistons are only slightly more expensive than off the shelf pistons, why would you bother...
I wonder if the stock 5s pistons wouldn't work with the beams head/valves? The 3s pistons have way too much of a dome, but the 5s pistons look pretty close. Don't know what they would give you for compression, but they would be more likely to work that the gen2/3 3sge pistons.
the 5S pistons do have a lot of dish so you might end up with a reasonble CR. Im not sure what the valve angle of the 5S is would could be an issue. anyway, the 5S pistons were never designed to handle boost so it was never an option for me. they may work as a budget low boost setup
@@hawes_power5590 For sure no boost, or minimal boost. I was thinking in the context of doing a really cheap 5sge, could you do something so simple and see good results?
valve angles are completely different from the Beams to the 3SGT head, if you use any non Beams pistons make sure to clay the head for piston to valve clearance
Very cool build video.... I have plans to turbo my red top 3sge to put in my st165
That sounds pretty cool. You don't see many 165s these days!
@@hawes_power5590 thanks bro... Will probably be a couple of years before it is ready for the road.... Am only wanting 250-300hp out of it... Do you have any tips on what I will need apart from the turbo and ecu... I would like to stay relatively high comp and low boost if that makes sense
@@nigelsmith7366 you can run that power on a factory engine. use a big turbo running low boost to keep the engine alive down low. but anymore and you want upgraded rods, pistons and head studs.
@@hawes_power5590 thanks bro I was wanting to avoid engine internals as I only have a very small budget for parts
hi did you use the stock valve and stock retainers, only upgraded the springs ?? nice build by the way..
Yes stock valves and retainers
This is an interesting build, looking forward to seeing how it turns out!
Question: Isn't it recommended to use a torque plate to clamp down on the block before doing the cylinder walls and headstuds so it will "preflex" into it's final shape? Or not necessary on iron blocks?
yes it highly recommended on iron blocks, this will happen when it gets machined
Really surprised by that piston/rod combo.
There isn't much choice for 5S rods, these maxspeeding rods are underrated. The custom pistons were well priced, and they had all the 3s specs in terms of valve angle etc. hopefully it all holds together
Finally someone ballsy enough to take on this challenge and put the info out. Been contemplating this set up for my tezza for a while.
P.S. Got a link to those valve springs? And are you retaining VVT-I?
haha. Yeah I'm sure it has been done before, but as you say, no one has documented it. i got them from Kennelly cams in NZ www.kcams.co.nz/
Yes defiantly retaining the VVTi, its the main advantage of this head. although the do have superior port design etc
Hi I am trying to Follow and copy most of the build for my altezza With the J160 trans. Would you be able to give me some more info on the pistons? Who I would need to talk to to make me some? I have the car and a Running 5sge, so just need to buy the Beams head and other 3sge parts.
Hi I sourced them through PSI racing in the states. A 5SGE doesnt exist... What engine is in your altezza?
Hey fellow kiwi here. I built a 5sgte around 2018 using the manual blacktop head, custom rods, pistons, full cnc head, cam upgrade, full ferrea valvetrain. Running ext. oil pressure ported using an line to activate the variable cam timing. Partial grout filled block, stud kit etc. Stuck it into a TA22 and a built R154, LSD streeter
Awesome car! Sounds like a very similar setup, what sort of power are you making?
sick!
Is that same with 5sfe engine?
Im using a 5sfe engine...
Hey is it possible to throw a beams engine on 3sgte gen4/5
it is possible, but the engines are very hard to even lift, let alone throw on top of another engine. you would have to be very strong.
all jokes aside, I presume you mean a beams head onto a 3sgte block. kind of, the head will bolt on but the valves will hit the 3sgte pistons due to the different valve angle. so custom pistons are require
You have to complete this build
very soon if all goes well
To be fair,130hp wasnt underpowered in the 90s for an NA 4cyl.
clearly the 5SFE was never intended to be a performance engine, but it is underpowered compared to the 3sge, or honda B series or even a 4age from the same era
@Hawes_Power oh,of course,just saying it's within standard power for that market,not on the lower end; like say a D series. Certainly nothing that puts 100 to the wheels is exhilarating lol.
@@bobbybandz9194 agreed
First minute of this vid tell me everything about u lmao sub
haha cheers
Hey dude! Do you have an IG?
Hey there. Nah I don't. But my business, Agile Performance NZ does and we occasionally put up some pictures