What I hate about AR15 rifles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- This is the NGSW video I talk about: • US Army's NGSW Program...
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Two more things I like about the AR15 that I forgot to mention: 1. I love all of the great trigger options for it. 2. I love the inline stock that helps with controlability.
Agreed. However ihave a challenge for Desert Tech. Why not go ahead, and do a redesigned AR-15, without all of the things you hate, redesign, engineer and manufacture, a better version. As such without rear charging, and buffer tubeless. But still able to use all the commonality of aftermarket parts, barrels, triggers and accessories etc. while still maintaining a low cheap PSA priced AR-15, but in your image.. that how you overthrow the AR Market, while at the same time knocking the AR of its throne and introducing a better more ergonomic version of the AR platform. If anybody could pull it off it would be y'all at Desert Tech. The key to the AR-15 Market is its low cost, availability and plethora of parts, and accessories to build or buy it the way the end user wants it to be, or look. without the giant $1k plus pricetags, of other available platforms. Also there are those of us, that would love to have a better platform, but absolutely just cannot afford it.
I wish the MDR and SRS had options for 2 stage triggers! They’re great otherwise but I just personally dislike single stage triggers.
Please do a vid on why you hate the AK47. Besides it being commie of course.
@@mrshort2379 because after 50 years its pretty optimized already
to the extent that its not, look at the SIG SPEAR LT
that basically the pinnacle of 556/300blk
you arent going to be able to improve on that design
You made some valid points on the AR-15 platform, and it's good to make changes going forward. The AR-15 platform can be learned very quickly ,even a small man or woman can operate it effectively with some training & repel multiple attackers. Just ask Kyle Rittenhouse. It definitely saved his life.
The best thing about the DI is that it makes the gun light and low recoiling.
and thats why its the best
I agree with both statements! 👍🏻
Cleaning them, however, is NOT.
Is just pros and cons like all things in life.
The low recoil comes from the buffer system. The recoil is closer to your body. Much like a bullpup.
I would add a 7th metric into the performance criteria: Serviceability -how fast and easy can the product be cleaned and repaired in field conditions.
Overall good work, I like the engineering mindset that Desert Tech uses in the development of their products.
That too is an important metric that should be added to the list. Thanks for surfacing it! 👍🏻
You are a breath of fresh air in many ways, thank you! . I couldn’t agree more on what is wrong with the ar15.
Thanks!
Loss of context is a huge piece. When it was adopted, the AR platform was light years ahead of the M14 and Garand it replaced. Bringing the recoil spring in line with the bore and DI piston reduced recoil in concert with a new intermediate cartridge leading to vastly improved full auto / burst performance vs the 308s. The use of aluminum and polymer were some of the first. So the AR was the greatest. Ergonomics were improved, and the construction let the aftermarket support it for years to come. Unfortunately, that context is lost and people still think it’s the greatest just because. It sucks to see institutional inertia repeating mistakes of the past as the SPEAR looks about as similar to the M4 as the M14 (widely accepted as a failure) was to the Garand before it. Glad companies like DT keep pushing the envelope, but more needs to be done to wake the public up to the fact that the AR deserves its laurels, but is now 80 years old. We see the Russians sticking to their old AK platform and failing to innovate with the AK-12 flop. Keep at it DT!
I second that emotion.👍
They didn’t really fail with the ak 12 it’s still loved among many and is considered a war trophy the only thing the did wrong was the trigger group fire selector waht ever you want to call it and remember the ak had the ar beet easily in Vietnam
I watched Garand Thumb's review of the General Dynamics/True Velocity RM277. Very interesting and forward-looking NGSW candidate in a bullpup profile. Check it out.
Someone had to say it
I want to get one of those "It has been XX days since a workplace accident" signs but have it say "It has been XX days since I heard the phrase 'shits where it eats' in reference to an AR15".
Yet goes 2000 rounds just fine without cleaning 😕
@@benjaminnevins5211yep, all that carbon build up actually helps with the function of the gun since it acts as the perfect dry lubricant. Of course you need to clean it from time to time but it “shitting where it eats” actually helps it.
"What would desert tech do ar15" when
A Few Things:
1)The biggest weakness the entire AR family has is it's relative fragility in 'over the beach' testing.
2)The velocity loss due to chopping the barrel is operational requirements intersecting with the inherent weakness of 5.56, not an AR family one.
3)It's old (at least 64 years depending on how you count) and has modernized better than all it's peers and many of it's alleged successors.
4)Point 3 needs to be taken with the added context that all of that modernization has occurred effectively outside it's design envelope.
5)A lot of people think that it's the best, because for them, it is. For many, whether they verbalize it, or not, the fact is that they want to buy in to the logistical train surrounding the standard issue rifle of their country. That log train effects everything around it, well in to the civilian sector. It means all my accessories and enablers are going to be geared to it (the AR fam), it means most ammunition being produced will be 5.56 and .223. These are just a few things your are accessing by buying an AR. There isn't an industry behind a single one of the other 5.56 weapon systems the way there is just for the AR family.
6)Item 5 has more to do with the AR being an innovation killer than anything.
7)Have a good day and best of luck with your business.
Great points!
Simplicity should be top on the list. The fewer breakable parts, the better. 2nd should be serviceability- bc no matter how well designed a product, eventually they break. Easily attainable quality parts and components as well. No gunsmith needed
level as a baseline for design. That might aid in reliability too.
Simplicity usually leads to reliability for sure. As far as the order of importance each military tender generally weighs each think differently. Just depends on what the end user decides he wants the most.
With Garand Thumbs RM277 video showcasing the incredible control-ability of the rifle I’m very curious to see what the WLVRN (in 308 specifically) looks like during a full auto mag dump!
I just watched his video. That rifle is really controllable. Maybe we can do some videos with our sabertooth.
@@DesertTechUT I hope so! Need more content on the WLVRN platform asap!
Hopefully Hunter will snag one to do a video soon and maybe one day Garand to follow!
What I hate about other rifles other than the AR-15 is the price!!!!
I agree. Unfortunately 50 year old designs are cheaper to keep reproducing than it is to pay for the development and time it takes to creat the next generation rifle systems.
@@DesertTechUTif you offer the best bullpop rifle design 2000 or less, i would get 1.
@@jechezeqel7376check their gun broker, used last gen MDRs for cheap
A lot of good points I never really thought about. Being in the military, you’re so used to the AR platform rifles, that you just accept and go with everything.
Never shot an mdr but i’m interested now, and to see whether I fully agree or not.
Our new WLVRN rifle is the next generation after the MDRX. th-cam.com/video/bVazJohWlvw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=JlG_nCf4APXw4FaM
@tinybatmanname9476, my thoughts exactly. I also see that in my father's generation and their M-14 which I used as an honor guard team member. The M-14 was a great gun, but the AR platform was a big leap in technology and modularity. Now I am a big fan of bullpups. I have them in shotguns and intermediate range rifles. I also own and love my ARs. Again, different platforms have different advantages and disadvantages...not necessarily better or worse...just different.
100%
the WWSD made me realize just how much missed potential is in the AR
Yup
I will say I regretted buying one. The handling is very nice, but shooting it was less so. Mine was severely over gassed even using cheap 223. I also had issues with the trigger not resetting. I ended up putting a lot of money into the rifle to try and remedy these things, adjustable gas block, tungsten weights, new trigger, but it just didn't work out. Putting one together myself may have been a better option, but I have come to appreciate turn-key designs, especially at the price. I have an old SP-1 that I inherited that is a fantastic shooter. I ended up just selling the WWSD and bought a new Colt. Despite the hate new Colt gets, the rifle seems to be just as nice as the SP-1.
Nick is the MAN! - always interesting videos, full proffesionalism and the passion for firearms. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
The question I have is. Will the .308/6.5creed Wolverine work with 25 round Pmags and or drum mags to that 2k no stoppage mark?
If you've only had a SA80 the AR15 seems perfect!
I bet!😂
large oof
What the frack were the Brits thinking with that design?
If they were going to switch from 7.62 to 5.56 ... they should have immediately considered their version of the FN FNC or M16A2.
And if they wanted to develop their own bullpup ... learn from the Steyr AUG, FN FNC & M16 ... to make the SA80 ... with a bufferless AR upper with a side charging handle ... with an AR or bullpup lower. Then you focus on impoving the upper and lower ... with the upper focused on weight, recoil, & accuracy .. and the lower focused on wieght, AR controls, trigger.
The MDR ... should have began as an bufferless monolithic piston AR upper ... for an 18 in barrel, side charging handle, not T handle & forward assist .... that can be mated to any AR lower ... or ... an MDR bullpup lower.
The Steyr AUG .. should have been redeveloped into ... into a AR upper & bull pup lower .. with Steyr offering offering a piston AR with folding stock ...and a bullpup lower. And then focus on reducing weight & recoil, and improve accuracy ... with the AR upper .... and ... reduce weight, add AR finger controls, and AR triggers with the BULL pup lower.
Again. what the frack were the Brits thinking with the SA80? Should at the very least worked with Steyr on a better AUG if they really wanted a bullpup ... otherwise adopt the FN FNC or M16 A2.
@@abelincoln8885 Ok, where to begin.....
1. The Government of the time were in the process of trying to sell off Royal Ordinance at any cost (to fit in with Government Policy on privatisation) and pushed the designers to get something, anything, into market as Royal Ordinance had no "new" products on offer. So, it was a rush job for the benefit of stock market pricing....
2. "And if they wanted to develop their own bullpup ... learn from the Steyr AUG" - ever heard of EM2? It predates the AUG by about 30 years and was, to all intents, very good. Unfortunately it was designed around an intermediate cartridge that was scuppered by the US Army unilaterally choosing 7.62x51 and basically forcing this onto NATO. Thanks US...
3. "The Steyr AUG .. should have been redeveloped into ... into a AR upper & bull pup lower" - you're talking as if the modularity in small arms design that we seem to take for granted now has been around for the last 50 years or so. It hasn't.
4. "..what the frack were the Brits thinking with the SA80?". I handled and fired the pre-production prototypes of SA80 - they were reliable and incredibly accurate rifles but like all prototypes needed some "fettling" as experience in their use increased and some issues were discovered. However, what really killed them was that they were (with the sale of Royal Ordinance) put into production at the lowest possible cost (profits are a thing in private industry). The rest is history.
Agree with everything said here except I can’t afford Desert Tech
Underrated comment #truth
I am happy that the first thing mentioned is the T charging handle. That thing sucks bad. I would way rather have any sort of Side charging handle reciprocating or otherwise.
Run a side charger in a real course of fire with multiple shooting positions and you will wish you bever had it.
@@alexcapps9290Settle down, internet operator. Go tell that to all the targets of AK fire 😂
@TweakRacer go run an AK at a 2 gun event then come talk some shit.
Huge plus for the AR-15 is the feasibility of reliable
Really glad you highlighted the aspects of people erroneously associating gear a military adopts to be the best available, and the way US government policies have essentially stymied development of platforms other than the AR by reducing competition for one reason or another.
The AR-15 isn't necessarily popular because of any things intrinsic to its design, but rather its adoption by the most funded military in the world, its lack of competition in the largest domestic firearms market, and the decades of iteration and innovation focused on the platform because of these factors.
The fundamentals of the AR are essentially that it's direct impingement and has a buffer tube, this isn't what makes the AR platform good.
No, not going to like the video until I actually watch it and decide I do Like it....
Yeah, that is super weird he asks that at the start of all their videos 😂
Let's set the record. 99% of all the problems stated have been solved by many companies.
Ergonomics: The charging handle was at the most ergonomic position ever at the time of it development which was under the charging handle and then was moved to its current position at the rare. The safety can always be made more ergonomic but to say the MP7 has a good safety is just bananas, that thing would always catch on gear to the point that some guys modified it with a dremel tool.
Reliability: The weapon is very reliable, problems start to occur as you cut down the barrel which was solved early on by the Taiwanese with the T65 and most common known the HK416. The problem was first truly solved by LMT with their enhanced BCG in the MK18 until colt built the MK18 upper. Lets also make it clear that the M4/MK18 cost less than $1000 so you can't compare it with a HK416 which is above $2000 and use more durable metals.
Durability: Many companies already solved all the durability issued mentioned in the video.
Mobility: There is not a single LE/MIL organization that shoots with the stock of a gun folded unless they can control the weapon properly such as an MP5. Folding stocks are for concealment of the weapon, storage, transportability and movement.
Lethality of the MK18 was mainly solved with MK262 MOD1 ammo from black hills and if you're shooting a short gun, ballistics of a 5.56 at close ranges is not a the top of the list.
Survivability: Many companies already solved all these problems.
The 3 shot burst trigger group was not favored by any of the colt engineers or even stoner himself because of the problems stated and no special operations group used it because it caused problems with the consistency of the trigger pull on semi-auto. Most rifles were converted to full auto as burst was useless.
The XM8 test was said to be deceitful as the tested M4s were not new rifles. (Statement from a Colt Employee)
Overall I agree that the AR15 has absolutely murdered innovation of firearms to a level never seen before. Never has so many manufacturers, countries, governments and militaries try to copy as many features from one gun and reproduce it in history. Its to the point that if our major enemies had a chance to use, it they would
Then what do you say to the user who wants a quality side charging system?
@Sergi762 side charging sounds great on paper but the second you start running it you will realize it has a lot of issues
Get one. There are dozens of options. But with years in the most unfriendly places on earth, and the use of dozens of different rifles.... side charging isn't always the best option.
A moving handle is a fast way to get jacked up in a gun fight. As an ambidextrous shooter, you'll appreciate not having one.
If you're ever wounded in your hand/ arm, the charging handle on the right side is also a problem.
Good luck.
@@christianlequoix7473Fair enough.I'll keep my eyes open.
@@Sergi762 many companies make side charging ar15s. Faxon. Bear Creek. Are 2 that immediately come to mind.
There is a video of a handloader getting a DI AR to function with 160 grain 6.5 Grendel subsonic suppressed. That implies a replacement cartridge for 300 Blackout, 5.56mm and most .308 rifle in military use. Could an MDR be made to cycle both regular and subsonic 6.5 Grendel?
These are many of my own concerns, I kept the safety, decoupled the handguard from the nut, put all the recoil forces in the upper, and a few other things unseen. I enjoy these videos thanks.
I can't wait to try out the Wolverine. It's going to be my first DT rifle. The thing I like about the AR over a bullpup is how fast you can reload magazines. I guess with a lot of training I can overcome that.
You’re in luck! They use the same STANAG magazines, so it takes the same time to reload the magazines 😂
@@TweakRacer That's awesome, great to know.
The T charging handle is one of my most hated feature of the AR rifles. Having grown up with AK's, not having the side charging reciprocating handle is a huge problem. The DI gas system isn't my favorite to clean and maintain either, and the inability to use a side folding stock is aggravating. I am looking to get a 5.56 rifle to replace my AK-74N because of the 5.45x39 ammo situation. So, naturally, I have been looking at every 5.56 rifle out in the market right now to replace it, and you aren't wrong : the AR is smothering other rifles. Just because the Army wants it, does not make it worth the trouble. That same army bullsh*t cost the US soldier the FAL rifle. The FAL was, and is, a far better rifle overall than the M14.
I tuink you shpuld consider chambering it a line of short magnum cartridges like the 300 wsm or 6.8 western. I think youd stir a lot of attention as there are no ar platforms comercially made in that caliber and its an excellent ling range cartridge. Some good 20 rd mags and a solid scope mount and it would make an amazing long distance gun as you could have a full 22 to 26 inch barrel in a bullpup and have it be reasonable manageable.
The XM8 example is just not true. Firstly, the XM8 was a problematic design that is known for quickly overheating especially the polymer upper receiver. Secondly, the test you are referring to used issued, potentially worn out M4s versus brand new FN Scars, HK 416s, and HK XM8s. “Coincidentally” the rifle the preformed the best did not use STANAG magazines.
Thanks for taking your time to share your opinion. Love the content.
My favorite thing about the ar is parts availability and squad compatibility. My least favorite is the exposed buffer tube design.
Cheers boys.
I'm not into the AR15 platform at all. I despise the nose heavy balance, especially when you start to throw the balance even farther forward wit a silencer, and/or useful accessories like lights, lasers, laser range finders, and especially dangley bipods. My brother loves his AR15, and I don't think he'd trade it for a brand new Ferrari.
I'm certainly interested in the new WLVRN, but frankly I really don't want to give up the forward eject of my MDRX. It adds weight to a rifle that's heavy to begin with, but the one I have has yet to give me any problems. And since I only see out of my left eye I like the fact that I don't even have to change it to a right handed gun when I let friends shoot it.
I didn't buy my MDRX for home defense and so I'm a little disappointed that I didn't start right out with the 20" .223 barrel. I'm going to add a 20" .308 barrel soon, and if I can get my hands on one I'll add a 20" .223 barrel soon after that. I just don't have the need to give up the extra muzzle velocity for a shorter O.A.L.. I'll keep the BLK LBL bipod intended for the 16" barrel so I doubt the extra 4" of barrel will make a noticeable difference in front end weight when I'm shooting .223. Grrrr. I imagine I'll have to go aftermarket for a 20" 6.5CR barrel. And I have to say I'm not thrilled about that.
I'll no doubt at all eventually go for the WLVRN for the decease in weight, and if it really turns out to actually be "30% more accurate", AND more reliable that my reliable 'ol MDRX, that would be more than enough to put up with having a left handed only gun. (I know it can be switched over, but the changeover looks like a pain in the... yeah.)
A consistent 30% gain in accuracy would be an incredible feat if it's actually been pulled off. My MDRX is no slouch in the accuracy department. A 30% increase in accuracy that independent reviewers start to show wouldn't surprise me, (DT has some ass kicking engineers), but it would impress the living hell out of me. I ran our R&D department for 37 years. So I know. I've been there. A full and consistent 30% improvement in pretty much anything at all is tough. It's getting that last 5% to actually get to 30% that's where all the sweat and head banging comes into it.
But even if it turns out to be more like a 20% increase in accuracy, AND lighter, AND more reliable. I'm gonna want me a WLVRN.
A very important thing from a German/Eropean view is the safety lever function. Every Military or Law-enforcement Contract requires that you can always put the lever in safe no matter the bolt position or loading condition.
That is true this bothers me about the AR too.
@@DesertTechUT Why? If one is attempting to place the rifle on safe after a stage of fire or simply after chambering a round and you can't, that is a very fast signal that something has malfunctioned.
@@aaronfarnsworth7653Calm down, fanboi. Every AR bug is a feature? 😂
@@TweakRacer No, in a different post I said how the bolt stop should be different. I was merely pointing out that the safety/selector functioning the way it is does, alerts the rifleman to a problem such as a disconnector malfunction that let the hammer follow the bolt home. Trigger discipline problems should be taken care of in basic training.
In my opinion the move would be to make a dedicated 5.56 Direct Impingement version of the WLVRN as an entry level offering to really catch on and snag some AR users by being in the same price range ($1500-$1800 at most)
This would make it even lighter, more accurate, softer recoiling, and simpler!
Perhaps remove some features like quick change barrels to further reduce weight and cost
But of course keep an adjustable gas block.
Right now a bullpup is $2000 and up to get a decent rifle, even higher for the near if not perfect WLVRN, and less for a cheap bullpup that suffers in every way
A good mid tier priced offering as described above would be killer from you guys!
AR 15/rifles = the five-shot revolver/handguns.
The AR15 charging handle placement is great. It does the most important thing: it's out of the way. It's very rarely that that specific placement of the charing handel hinders a shooter in any meaningfull way. The MP5/G3 placement that a lot of companies has started doing is the worst in practice. It's in the way of the support hand in a lot of situation, it catches slings, and on the G3 it is a pain to charge while lyinging down.
The Saftey is also great since it stays on safe while carring the rifle. I think the 45-degree saftey and such is something that only makes sense on paper and that it's gained popularity only among people how compete or only shoot at a range. Just as the charging handle the saftey is used much less than people think and it's ease of use or speed of use is secondary to it not being actuated inadvertently.
About the bolt release: the speed reload is a USPSA/3-gun/IPSC thing. A 4 second reload vs a 5 second one is irrelevant when loading from web-gear/poches. And your left hand is already off the the gun since you are already reloading.
A lot of these conclusions i suspect originate from range time and competition. In my experience some militarly important things get lost in that environment.
True Velocity RM277 bullpup controls ergonomics seems not bad at all.
I disagree about the use of the AR15 as The sporting rifle for a couple of reasons.
First, European semi-auto rifle offer was very limited in the 2000's : Steyr AUG, AK variants, VZ58, Sig 550 family, HK G93 and SLR (FN FNC, FAMAS F1). Only the AUG is more ergonomic, handier but not cheaper than a M16 A2 style rifle (even in Europe). Alternatives in the US were also there : AR180, Bushmaster M17.
Other alternatives exist today but, in my opinion, don't point as well as a "tube" rifle and their center of gravity is too much forward due to their gas piston systems.
Legitimate criticisms for the most part. However weight, straight line recoil, and modularity make the package attractive.
Agreed
I'm with you on the charging handle. Worst location ever!
The original top design was better. Although with the advent of pic rails a side or forward charger is the best. :-)
Although dirtier, having the bolt be the piston was really brilliant. It reduces system weight and barrel whip, improving accuracy and reducing muzzle rize. The use of forged aluminum and plastic parts was also revolutionary. I wish modern manufacturers would use more space age materials, making stronger and lighter guns able to handle higher chamber pressures. We are starting to see this with suppressor companies and companies like BSF with their carbon fiber barrels. If they were able to mate their design a with maraging steel barrel, that would be incredible!!!!
Replacing steel components with titanium and aluminum components with carbon fiber composites or high tech carbon fiber reinforced polymers like PEEK would go a long way to improving the weight, performance, durability, and reliability of firearms. :-)
I think that sounds really great myself! I agree on the DI comments. Ingenious design.
The trigger charger from the OG ArmaLite AR-10s was trash.
* It got piping hot and would burn your fingers.
* It required a channel cut into the top of the receiver that allowed debris ingestion.
* It made optics mounting a mess.
These are the reasons they got rid of it on the AR-15 as well. The Dutch were already designing CH improvements on their AR-10s, to include a folding latch on the right side of the rear of the shaft for airborne troops.
Everything is a design/performance compromise.
Do you want:
* Best ergonomics
* Debris ingestion resilience
* Simplicity
Pick one carefully. AR-15 gives you 2 of those, which is extremely rare.
For examples:
G3/Hk33 suck for ergos, simplicity, and debris ingestion.
AK sucks badly for ergos and debris ingestion, but is simple.
FAL is awesome for ergos, but sucks for debris ingestion and is so-so for simplicity/complexity, depending on model.
AR is user-replaceable too, the others aren't.
There is no such thing as a "perfect weapon".
Nope not yet each has compromises. Like a balance beam scale you want more of this then you get less of that. It’s getting closer every year though.
Xm8 failed for so many reasons, no support for picatinny, not using stanag mags, no better performance except in skewed testing
I liked that you mention about the adjustable stock, and I would add the mag position for reload is more confortable in thr AR platform. But DT bullup rifles managed to add all the other advantages mentioned, and I agree.
Great job Nick!
Is it possible to integreat an recoil reducer on the end of your stock on the wylvrn and sabertooth?
Mayby a combination of amourphus steel hat is shock reflekting and other new matireals like a schmall layer of non newstowns mass or crystals and rubber?
I mean if you increase a bit of your weight but decrease the felt recoil of the .308 it will be great. Than you could have a feeling like an assould rifle but you shoot an battle rifle. With M993 or XM 1158 advanced armour pircing and powder for short barrels you have an gun for nearly all types of work on the battle field.
I have this idea because of i shot a few times the old WW2 gun Fallschirmjägergewehr 42, and this had an spring on the stock too reducce the felt recoil and the top wandering of this short gun with the powerfull 8x57IS😮.
Only a downgrade is that our triggergroup is a bit in movement but the reduce of recoil is great😊.
You can see the difference on ,,Forgotten Weapons'' Channel the FG 42 in fully auto.
I love your MDRX/wlvrn/saberthooth and i think, the .308 and mayby thr .277 is a big player on battlefield because of the wide using of body armour, drugs and high range of modern weapons and optics.
Desert Tech❤
Everybody swoons over AR magazines, but I've seen so many FTFs because people end up grabbing the magazine after a magazine or two because the handguard gets too hot for them to hold.
Wear gloves problem solved
Don't run aluminum.... pretty simple
Rail covers work wonders with that problem.
@@christianlequoix7473 wtf are you talking about aluminum is what the best hand guards are made out of.
@@c.m.b.4868 exactly
So what you are trying to say is that... Desert Tech wants to make a HK433 in the USA? I mean that would be quite lovely.
the 433 is sick! Love that rifle!
I have a Tavor 7. I am a left handed shooter. I love it!
I know what you meant when you compared DT to McLaren, but those super-cars don't have a percent of the durability that your guns have.
If i could get a wlvrn as cheap as an ar15, I'd for sure swap
This is a 2005 critique of colt and bushmaster.
We are in a post KAC, BCM, DD, LMT world.
Everything you listed is fixed or fixable in aftermarket.
The takeaway I'm getting, is something that has an AR style magazine release, an MP7 style safety, a folding stock, and the left side right side charging handle like a G36.
All valid points and I agree with most of what you said; for me it was the first rifle I ever fired (USAF). Daily use and too many rounds down range to recall, helped me overcome/mitigate any of the rifles issues. As I am much older I have guns that are better and I like more than the AR, I will be joined for life to the AR, as it was my right hand for most of my time in service. On a separate note, soon as I can swing it I'll have your SRS in 300 winmag and a 338LM conversion kit!!!!
Ok I can definitely agree on the 3 shot trigger being absurd. Even stoner hated that idea
I almost unilaterally agree with these points, but it is impossible to have this conversation without acknowledging parts availability. I understand that it is separated from the gun itself, it is not a direct boon to the AR-15 platform. But is is to owners. It is a reality we live in where if I need to repair my firearm, I will have absolutely no issue doing so the same day.
i like all your complaints besides the last one the ar15 is common because it is a good weapon compared to things like the ak which isn't as modular and easy to work on and that's the real reason why the ar15 keeps winning its the common mans rifle its for everyone
Ak is simple people just don’t know how to do anything more than
See
Buy
Bolt on
I love the thought process you have. Inline with an inventor or engineers thought process. But as a vet who's been in combat you points are valid. I've never had a reliability issue with ar's (knock on wood), but the other points you stated I've noticed personally.
Thanks, and thank you for your service!
i will forever be a bullpup lover only have the aug but I'm hoping to get the wolvrn soon
Me too! 😍
Citing that 2007 "reliability" test multiple times that was shown to be so heavily flawed that it was one of the nails in the coffin for the xm8 is not a good look try again
Yeah, especially when desert tech made so many bad mdrx rifles. I dont think I can trust them again after these statements.
I also ordered a quattro, and even the take down pin holes were drilled too small. I needed a hammer and hammer punch to push the pins in and out. Tested on Radian take down pins and normal mil spec ones
Wahwahwah, why are you so butthurt, internet operator? 😢
Sure do waste a lot of time watching DT vids and leaving all these crybaby comments 😂
@TweakRacer nah I'm just tired of people peddling garbage trying to convince people to buy their products. I watched the video because I'm not a luddite who so far up my own ass I can't breath. I never once claimed to be any kind of operator, I shoot rifle competitions and can tell you with experience that most of what he said is either misleading or a flat out lie. By all means if you prefer substandard ergonomics, feel free to listen to his gospel
@TweakRacer Do you happen to work for desert tech? You seem to be the only person here that's butt hurt
How did you not blink the entire video
It's one of my hidden talents! 🤓
Bought a mdrx back in Covid days and could only find side eject black in 556… wish I could trade out my never fired black body for a fde one for really cheap .. I just can’t justify a grand as sexy as the fde color body is.. any ideas? Desert Tech is really a great business with awesome offerings for the firearms community, they definitely deserve more attention then what they’ve got presently.. keep up the great innovation and styling!! ❤
Cerakote it yourself.
Aluma Hyde from Brownells is a tough paint. I've used it on most my rifles. Just follow their video's on painting it & cure time.
Are you hiring?
Watch our website as we post all job openings there.
@@DesertTechUTso that's a no😊
Are you hiring psychologists? I can't do anything else.
@@DesertTechUTthanks!
Very well done video.... I plan on getting a WLVRN . Seems to be a very well thought out rifle.
Survivability...training gunfighters to make ambidextrous "optimal use if cover" is key. The ambidextral gunfighter requires a rifle with perfectly mirrored controls. The 7.62 MDR I tested was great at that.
Love your products, great points!, the armys new xm7 solves a lot of these issues was hoping you guys could make a 45rd quadstack magazine and lower receiver for the xm7 so i gotta better chance at surviving the draft😅
XM7 is the shit right? 👌
There was QC problems and I had to switch cause it had bizarre molding problems. It looked like there was some sort of clay or something molded over the lower, next to the brand, and then like they carakoted over it. Not sure what that was about. You get it when it was like 6k?
Agree on all points, the mk18 crowd is gonna be seething
lost me at 1 stoppage at every 500 rounds.
How's the Quattro WLVRN project?
drum mag....
@@Patrick5 bullpups and drums dont mix well.
They said the width of the magazine interrupts the transfer bar, thus making it impossible.
Not possible unfortunately. 🥲
@@Orudaikenthey should make a fly by wire electronic trigger to replace the transfer bar.
sure the military market wouldn't want that, but us
civvies buy stupid but cool gun shit all the time. 😂
hell, go full Halo and add an electronic ammo counter. 🤣
then it will be too cool for anybody to complain about the batteries or being fly by wire.
alas... getting the investors to sign off on that sounds impossible 💀
Just love your wolverine line. Always pushing the bulpup concept for maneuverability in tight urban places.What makes the AR-15 platform work is that you can build one like Legos in many configurations on the fly with different calibers by just slapping on a new upper. The late Frank Dessoma made a 308win rifle on an AR-15 frame. 6.8lbs. Blackout defense came out with a dual tapper locking system & gradually measured cuts on their barrels to drastically reduce barrel whip & barrel point of shifting when getting hot during usesage. Love your HTI bolt gun design on a 50 BMG, then switch barrels to different calibers. Very impressive design. The Quattro magazine design is genius 👌.
Nice title. Guaranteed clicks.
🍿
Does the Wolverine has a quick way to change ejection side? The Beretta ARX can do that with a push of a button. Bullpups should copy this system.
Requires a tool and some assembly
@@DesertTechUT That choice was likely made to keep Italian grunts from fiddling with it or some belief that it would be easily accidentally bumped on gear while moving and possible cause a malfunction. If they had let it be a tool-less cross-bolt style operation and simply molded in a guard like a magazine release guard it should have been fine. It that still wasn't quite enough, increase the spring tension which holds it at either end of selection.
Their chosen reversible charging handle was a big fault of the design. Much too tiny. Nice idea but failed execution. That shouldn't be too difficult to fix either but more work than the ejection selector. Their basic mechanism, bolt, bolt carrier and quick change barrel appeared a simple, easily maintained mechanism that could have been ideally placed into a bullpup configuration with little effort and far better sales success. My only other question with it was the gas system. If I remember, it was claimed to not need service, cleaning or adjustment. I certainly never saw one disassembled. That may have needed a redesign. Carbon buildup could have been a b to the itch after a while.
The XM8 was also melty. Nice to carry, bad for sustained fire.
Agreed
The good thing about having the t shaped charging handle is being able to mortar the rifle more reliably as a proper mortaring technique on side chargers biases the bolt to one side or the other of the receiver, even then it’s not that big of an improvement over side chargers. I think the ar 15 is a good rifle, but as you mentioned, it’s an innovation killer. Too many companies are focused on improving a system that was designed over 50 years ago, and that’s largely due to the prevalence of ar 15’s on the market and in mil/LE
Ive been shopping options for a 308 platform. Then you guys come along... Maybe, JUST IN THE NICK OF TIME!!! The WLVRN sure looks intriguing... 🤔
This guy sniffing the glue
It has a lot of good likes... but a couple dislikes in addition to what you said. Mags don't always lock in if there is a mag issue, dirt or debris, or an issue with the mag catch. Noticeable in snowy/icy conditions and muddy/sandy conditions. Just when you think it is in and fire, it can drop free. Also if you have a bad jam that may be easier to clear if you field strip, oh well too bad, you can't field strip the weapon if the bolt wont fully seat (or at least very close to) in battery.
The benefit is you can buy aftermarket upgrades for any problem over time, I’d rather buy a new part every month than buy a new gun every couple years. It’s an old design but works great
Would Nick Young ever do a video on what he likes/dislikes about the Kel Tec RDB and how he would redesign it were Desert Tech to release their own version?
I may do a video to go over the things I don’t like on some of the other Bullpup rifles.
Are there Wolverines in the wild yet? I saw the 308 version was already shipping. I ordered one and just looking forward to see the videos on them while I wait.
We shipped all the 308 backlog and we started shipping 556 this last week
@@DesertTechUT Mine still say pending when I log into your website.
In my opinion all innovation on the AR platform are band-aid fixes or work-arounds on outdated design considerations
I agree with this statement 100%!
@@rottingravensblood9106 The AR-platform is 70 years old my guy
I like how your list of 6 things to increase to boost lethality in a weapons system doesn't include increasing "accuracy", which I guess makes sense given how the MDRx's rails don't hold zero. At least the priority list is honest haha.
Increasing lethality is facilitated by increasing accuracy. 👍🏻
My PA-10 has a stoppage every 3000 rounds or so...i got lucky i think....all the starts aligned 😂
Most of my rifle owning friends and relatives have AR15's. I am the Star Wars guy of the group, I like bullpups! I just don't like the way the AR platform feel like. The weight of my .308 MDRXCOM is fine with me. I do have the 20" .223 bolt kit. I own several lever guns and bolt actions that I like. One day I may own the SRS system, but I am not sure which barrel kits I will buy. Even though I prefer bullpups, I would be interested in a bolt action kit for an AR.
There are some bullpup kits for AR uppers showing up now. Even when bullpups are heavier, they feel better balanced with the weight closer to you and as DT grinningly likes to show, they are one handedly controllable even on full semi-auto. 😁
You should have made #2 "Speedability"....LOL
Love the new term! LOL
Totally valid points…… still my favorite platform 😊
As a bullpup collector, I've drawn different conclusions to a lot of yours. I find ar15s to be damn near perfect if it's fully ambidextrous. I also prefer DI over external pistons for ARs. I haven't found anything as accurate and lightweight as an AR 15. As for reliability/durability, I've seen a few go 5-7k without any failures, which is why I tend to favor them. Plus they're so modular anything you want to shoot out of them is available and relatively reliable. Just my opinions, but I appreciate diverse perspectives. 🇺🇸👏
Remember guys this video exists to sell you a product. The criticisms here are all either non-issues, preferences which the AR15 platform can easily accommodate, or borderline deceitful (1 failure every 500 rounds?) The Baseline Reliability report from 2016 established 1 stoppage every 3,600 rounds. The MDR's rail can't even hold a zero.
I want to see a stress test of the latest .308 mdrx. I wouldn't ever consider buying one again based on my experience with the awful metallurgy have 3 bolts break in a row. If you guys managed to make billet/milled steel bolts that might be a game changer. Good ergos but just feels like it wouldn't last a day in combat or even a hunt
WLVRN. Bolt Carriers and Bolt Heads are machined from billet 4140 and heat treated for strength. They are substantially stronger than Capenter 158
@@DesertTechUT So you diverged from the profit increasing scheme of Indian MIM (machining)? do you have proof?
Not a single part has ever been machined in India, not sure where you are getting your information from.@@Earther94
can you make a video on how the bolts are manufactured. I'd consider buying if convinced it's better than the last gen (2023 mdrx)
M4 : 500 MRBS
XM8 : 2000 MRBS
M16A2: 3600 MRBS
M4A1 (PMAG&M855A1) :4800 MRBS
The reason that the AR15 is an innovation killer is its low cost, you can get an excellent duty AR anywhere between $900-$1500, but if you go with a Spear LT or MDR or 416 or Bren or SCAR or anything else that's "innovative" and you'll wind up having to take out a mortgage to purchase one. Companies not only need to innovate when it comes to firearms technology, but they also need to innovate when it comes to cost and parts availability! But they generally forget about the cost part
True
It's simply a better design that nobody has topped yet, after 67 years. Nobody else has come close to matching it in:
Lightweight
Balance/handling
Reliability
Accuracy
Modularity
Ease of mx/logistics
When you look at those things combined, there simply isn't any competition in the market of innovation.
Most companies still haven't even embraced the basic aerospace materials construction used in AR-15s with 7075 receivers and the tiny gas tube (hydraulic line). They're still trying to make a Tokarev piston operating system work from the early 1900s, going backwards in the evolutionary path.
What do you think of the QBZ191 ??
Just what I have watched on TH-cam so no hands on experience with it.
I agreed with the design criticisms of this platform, such as the buffer tube, safety and charging handle. Those are all legitimate weak points.
I'm not sure the AR-15 is causing an innovation problem because people want what the military uses. I think it's that there are so many options, from budget to high-end, at a relatively high level of quality. It's also a non-proprietary system where you can get parts from all over. I think if your MDR/WLVRN were closer to $1K, or if you had an option closer to that price to compete with the high-value ARs (From PSA to BCM basically), that would go a long way towards solving this problem.
The AR commands market dominance because nobody has demonstrated the ability to make anything that's overall a better design.
Anytime someone tries to deviate from the core operating system, they make the gun heavier and out-of-balance, add complexity, and weird parts that claim things they don't deliver on most of the time.
The only ones that reduced parts count and weight are those WWSD carbines in the spirit of the original design, not that I'm for or against them, just pointing out facts.
@@LRRPFco52this.
Why buy a desert tech rifle that has a history of nothing but issues when I can spend that same amount of money on an FN AR that is objectively more accurate and reliable and have money left over to buy a quality optic?
The math isn't in desert tech's favor.
@@LRRPFco52 yeah, agree. The WLVRN may go a long way to solving or at least mitigating these problems, with the much reduced part count and full pound of weight loss. Unfortunately, it will still be very expensive and proprietary. I'm really rooting for them to knock it out of the park though, to the best extent they can.
@@double0cinco795 Bullpups always made sense on paper for me, until I started shooting them. Especially today, you would need a clean sheet design that does not use the bulky 1920s external op-rods and pistons, which add unnecessary weight and volume to an already-heavy system.
With external pistons, you get instantaneous carrier momentum, which is really bad for gas-operated firearms if you’re trying to delay primary extraction until chamber pressure has dropped. This is compensated for with heavy springing, which means more perceived/secondary recoil effects, on top of an off-bore axis reciprocating mass. Bad, bad, bad, and you still end up with extraction issues, hammer slap against disconnectors, and heavily-gassed ports with signature problems when you suppress.
The firearms design part is all mostly worked out. The systems integration is not. That’s where the real canvas is, and nobody in the firearms industry has the correct background in being able to address those problems, nor are they even trying.
@@LRRPFco52 Proper primary extraction timing is necessary on both an over barrel piston (short or long stroke) and an internal/DI system. Proper selection of gas port placement and size is also necessary for either system. Adjustable gas blocks can compensate to a degree when conditions change from the desired or expected condition.
I recently saw online a trigger group by KE Arms that claims to eliminate all hammer slap, even with blowback 9mm versions of AR. It has an interesting design that I hope has its durability proven as well.
By "systems integration" are your referring to the addition of electro-optical observation, targeting, ranging, (including automatic calculations for windage, bullet drop, angle, and earth rotation) illumination, laser designation, thermal and light enhancement and integrated power supply into a rifle?
There are clearly a few companies working in some of if not all of those areas combined. Perhaps more at independent component level but automatic cooperation between components is starting to appear commercially. The claimed leading edge of those companies may be working with well known companies in the aerospace industry or have hired talent previously employed by them. That would make the most sense to me.
Are you guys gonna make an MDR/WLVRN that takes Quattro mags?
The transfer bar linkages prohibit the qmag from being able to be integrated into the wlvrn unfortunately
These are very valid points. The AR-15 was designed 70 years ago, and it fires an anemic cartridge. It's conventionalism at it's worst. Why would we stick with a buffer tube and cut down the barrel to reduce the effectiveness of said anemic cartridge? Oh, conventionalism, and we're too lazy to train soldiers on a new weapon system, and bullpups suck. Really? I'd take a Tavor over an M4 any day of the week. Why? Because it does everything an M4 will do, but more efficiently. Where Desert Tech fell off is when they produced the MDR for the civilian market without testing it to military standards. The Tavor was produced to military standards and then marketed to civilians without select fire. Desert Tech has great concepts, but the weapons they develop for the civilian market should be just as good, if not better, than their military counterparts.
Anemic? Come on, man.
Bolt release works great for us southpaws!
No one wants to move past the ar platform because no one can afford to be guinea pigs for unreliable over priced products. Also because many of us want reliable part availability and not proprietary parts that basically leave you dead in the water if something breaks in the not widely tested "innovative" platform. I'm sure if something that was truly innovative came out people would consider going to it so long as it wasn't a 1 off manufacture patent thing.
That's the issue with all the proprietary innovative stuff. It can't get market share cause only one company makes it and so it stays proprietary and small production.
Talk me out of a 14” 6.5 CM battle rifle vs your WLVRN 20”…. Im realllllly wanting to risk the 2500 for that WLVRN… it just has to hold about 2 MOA
On the charging handle, we agree.
Does the blueprint call for zero tolerance between upper and lower?
No
The AR platform is outdated. I firmly believe the only reason the US military hasn't moved on from an AR platform is because #1 it's cheap & #2 it's convenient to not have to retrain personnel on new weapon systems.