Enjoyed your reaction again. The scenes between Drummer and Ashford in this episode are fantastic. I like how "Spin the drum" carries so much weight and heft. I also enjoy how Bobbie is starting to see things through her own eyes. Great episode. Look forward to the next one.
When we were originally introduced to Anna, we found out she was a reverend and a doctor who runs clinics for the needy. And she was a past acquaintance of the former UN Secretary-General. Just those 3 things tell us she has not prioritized faith. She does her best to help where she can when she can but some of it is from guilt by her previous association with Sorento-Gillis. She is constantly surrounded by victims of violence and is probably constantly disappointed by people. I think she is spread very thin and is looking for something “good” in the universe to contrast all the “bad” she has seen. I think she has faith in God but has little faith in humanity. She is just a flawed human who needs to learn from her mistakes and the mistakes of those around her.
This is a great episode, and I'm glad you enjoyed it too. Very hard hitting as the Protomolecule changes the rules and everyone has to scramble to survive the new world. There's a lot of great little moments that remind us of things we take for granted, like bleeding. I love the moments in chaos of quiet - this moment, Cotyar talking to the infected crewmember on the Agatha King. Anna stunned Melba with a riot tazer, we've seen them used on the deserters so they're nonlethal. Agreed Martians tend to be xenophobic - they're essentially a cold war culture, and brought up knowing the Earth's entire armament is pointed at them, waiting for them to blink.
The Amos turn-away is a difficult one. I think it may just be another example of Amos confounding normal behavioural expectations. I'm not sure he means anything bad towards Naomi with it. He has no subtext. He said OK and went back to rest and recover. Maybe Naomi feels a pang of guilt as a result, but I don't think Amos is still holding a grudge.
We've never seen Amos [edited] hold a grudge (at least not against a nominally good person). Naomi is just not one of his moral compasses right now. And, yes, there is no subtext with Amos...he said "okay," he means "okay." The important thing is that he _cared_ to know if she intended to stay.
@@kirkdarling4120 I am in agreeance. that "okay" for Amos did settle the issue, and he then leans his head into a comfortable position to continue resting. I think we all sometimes forget how very uncomplicated Amos is.
@@davidbergfors6820I’ve actually always read the head turn more as a very vulnerable, even a bit childlike, expression of how he feels. In that moment he lets the wall he always has up around any sense of weakness like admitting someone could actually hurt him or that he could fear losing a relationship he depends on (as he so clearly does on Naomi). It makes me think of a kid that’s felt hurt or lonely and was acting angry or like they just don’t care/never cared, and then someone they care a great deal about and look up to reminding them they really can depend on them. Turning away in the moment because they don’t want to admit (and/or know how to express) how much that means to them, especially since that means admitting they were hurt in the first place, but feeling safe enough from the reassurance that they let their guard down.
Great reaction!!!!!!!!!!! I completely agree with ya, this episode was utterly brilliant from start to finish. The second half of this season is perfection, and that says a lot cuz when these were airing live i was completely convinced that the first half of this season, (ending with "Immolation"), was the best stretch of episode of the series and possibly of any series of episodes from any tv that I've ever seen. But then, the second half of this season somehow managed to one-up the first half! "Dandelion Sky," "Fallen World," and the 2-parter finale are better than almost any other trio of episodes from any tv series that I've ever watched, and I've watched tons of different tv-shows over the years!
Great reaction! The scenes between Drummer and Ashford in this one are so good! When Amos asked Naomi " back to help, or back to stay?" 😢 Looking forward to the next one!
@@rodentnolastname6612 heck I think there's also some DNA of Space: Above and Beyond in The Expanse too, especially with the UN and corporate conspiracies.
Fire does behave differently in zero G, but not necessarily as portrayed here (or in firefly). Doing a web search for fire in zero gravity should turn up additional info,’if you’re interested. Similarly, you commented on the tears pooling on Tilly’s eyes. This is fairly accurate; Chris Hadfield (astronaut) has discussed his experience with this on several occasions, one of which was his Ted talk called “what I learned from going blind in space”, which I commend to your attention. Lastly, a thought about Amos. I haven’t read the books, so there may be aspects of this I’m missing. I tend to view Amos through a lens of “he’s on the autism spectrum”; even if not entirely accurate, it doesn’t feel entirely /inaccurate/. Someone on the spectrum, upon hearing what Naomi said, could well have just filed that under “ok, she’s back” and that would be the end of it. I don’t know if I’m right or wrong, it just feels like it might be a partial explanation of his behavior.
I had a hard time buying that anger alone would be enough of a motivator for someone with very limited zero g training to put on a vac suit alone and chase after someone through the ring space. Thankfully, we have the book for additional context and I have to say, it's more entertaining, hilarious and far more believable. I've started listening to the entire audiobook series again and I'm currently on Book 3. Fantastic ride.
Buoyancy is similar to micro-gravity, but not exactly the same. The show has exaggerated the problems for dramatic effect and to allow Ashford his magnanimous hero moment, but there are real concerns about intra-cavity haemmorhage problems and performing things like open-abdomen surgery in zero G. There are scientific papers about this, and also reports from ISS astronauts about very slow wound healing. Maybe not "a death sentence", but it is worse in space than on Earth.
@@MattNolanCustom Good point. I was thinking more of hydrostatic pressure and density of blood, which is within a few 1000ths of that of water. The question is at 1g an internal wound drains or is resorbed. But drains to where? And why? And why wouldn't it for astronauts? And one must ask how hard it is to throw them into a 100% O2, if they are not already breathing it. The other question is, will this become part of common knowledge because of The Expanse, like The Martian and Mars has storms that can shred your habitat and blow over a loaded rocket. Strongest winds on Mars are about 60mph or 95 kph and the atmosphere is 1/50 the density of that of Earth. But I will bet you a banana that any poling among science enthusiasts will say those storms are very dangerous. Oh well, dramatic license. I saw a fire in an instrument panel expanding outward slowly. A very cool effect and one might ask, what was it burning?
@@charlesspringer4709 looking things up, you can die in as little as 6 hours from internal bleeding here on Earth. Surgical intervention is necessary. Only very mild cases, will sort themselves out naturally. To operate in zero-G requires complex logistics and, certainly, good quality, expertly wrangled and sterile suction. In an Apollo-like low pressure 100% Oxygen environment, generating low enough pressure for effective suction of blood is a challenge, but in an ISS-like 14psi normal air mix scenario it should be easy enough. So, it's a bit hand-wavy! As for the zero-G flames coming from the instrument panel, that's high-stakes drama gas burning
Anna is definatley a flawed character (as we all are) she's definitely selfish... Abandons her family to explore the gate, ignores a crewman depending on her in favour of her interests, leading to his death. Focusing on her guilt (my supposition) she phones in a memorial service, again not really listening and focusing on her own mistakes she gives some terrible advice to a freind. Who dies as a result.... I think you'll have more thoughts on her to come. I'm not convinced shes written well as a pastor, i think shes (written as) a pastor because shes supposed to be better, and is being confronted by that. In that sense i think shes a well written character- or at least a character i like (i'm not a writer, i know nuffin) This is one of my fave episodes, and probably made start to love Ashford.
I'm not sure that the advice Anna gave to Tilly was terrible. It only looks like that if you know that Melba is incredibly dangerous and only us, the audience, knows that. Under normal circumstances, you don't expect people to be homicidal, and suggesting to go and offer help to someone in trouble is good advice. I also don't think she "phoned in" the memorial service. Even Tilly as, clearly, a non religious and on the surface a quite shallow person was moved and impressed by it. Anna is flawed, but not as flawed as you are interpreting it, IMO.
@@MattNolanCustom that's why it was bad advice, she didn't ask for any further details, or what the situation was with this person... She wasn't really interested. Sure you'd never expect someone's life to be in danger but it could make things worse. To be clear, I think Anna is a good character, just that her misteps had disproportionately bad consequences.
@@MattNolanCustom Anna: "could you give me more details" Tilly: "well her father's the guy that killed everyone on Eros and sicced it on Earth. She disappeared after he got arrested and the assets confiscated and for some reason is dressed as an electrician here and now, which is weird because she was a socialite when I knew her, and couldn't wire a plug" .... wouldn't raise any red flags?
"You changed your hair." In the novels, Naomi has a nervous quirk of hiding her face behind long hair. They wisely removed that from the series (and generally keep long hair tied back anyway for both in-universe logical and cinemagraphic technical reasons), but give it a nod by changing her hairstyle each book. We haven't seen Amos holding grudges, but he's rarely wrong in his evaluation of people (that's part of what has kept him alive), so having been so wrong about Naomi's fidelity was an existential shock. Martians are such petty folk. Ashford is completely sincere about wanting to show Belters as an civilized nation, and offering the Behemoth to everyone is what he'd do. But it's a bold move, and would be surprising (even negatively so) to his own Belter crew, so explicitly identifying himself as the captain in firm control was necessary.
I was brought up in a Christian faith. Have since lapsed, but that is immaterial to this discussion. Outside of church services, the priests I knew were not constantly proselytising. I don't think Anna is under-written as a Pastor in the circumstances that she is in, and given that we have had 300 years of getting more liberal, ecumenical and secular. She certainly isn't written that way in the books, and Book 3 is crammed into half a season so much of her story is omitted. In the show, how much mechanic work have we actually seen Amos do? How much actual engineering work have we seen Naomi do? Some, but not lots, and these people are main characters. Anna's role is mid-level. She's a main character for a couple of seasons. The show is not about religion, or engineering. It's about humans coping with human traits in the face of huge upsets to the status quo and a big set of allegories about civilisation and the aims and hopes of getting better at doing it.
@@MattNolanCustom I'm a quite religious Christian, and I'd say Anna is predictably on the trajectory that Methodists appear today to be on. No surprise, just as I was unsurprised that Mormons in that day would be preparing to leave the Solar System.
I think a short prayer, something along the lines of "God, help us get through this" as she is waiting for a door to open or something like that would have gone a long way to incorporate that part of the character. sadly though, I think the writers didn't think far enough to include such a thing, oddly.
@@davidbergfors6820I think this sort of expectation depends a lot on personal experience with faith, and denomination. My own come from having grown up entirely outside religion with a fairly anti religious father but in the southeast US surrounded by very, very loudly proselytizing evangelicals… and finding my way to the American Episcopal church as an adult, specifically one with a congregation almost entirely made up of grad students and professors from the very liberal research college it’s just off the campus of. I very much see the kind of people I found a place with in Anna’s character, including the divinity students who attended from another nearby university and the Rector himself. They never hid the importance or their faith or it’s tangible reality to them, and it clearly ran through every part of their life, but not because they prayed publicly/out loud or directly brought it up out of context. Their decisions and how they interacted with others/showed empathy etc relied on their faith without having to say so. I very much get that it’s a different experience for many (most?) others who consider themselves religious, and that’s certainly valid. I also know that plenty of the religious communities I grew up around including my ex in-laws would say the people I found to exemplify what matters about faith to me aren’t “real Christians”. But for me at least Anna is actually a _very_ welcome, and recognizable, portrayal of the kinds of people that are the very reason I wound up in the Church.
Great thoughts and well worded it really is something special with an episode with a "smaller" issue being handled in different ways by people with different views. And yes, I agree with you, and it really bares repeating; Annas portrayal of Christian may be a positive thing because it is not the standard villanization of our faith, but it's not good since it's clearly very flat, one dimensional and the subject of faith that should permeate every fiber of her being is barely mentioned at all.
Coming from what I'd guess is a very different experience of religion/faith myself, I don't agree with it being a flat representation of faith or how what that has to look like (though I fully get how it could feel that way for many). For me, Anna is a _very_ welcome and recognizable representation of the people that I found a place with in the American Episcopal church as an adult medical student having grown up athiest/agnostic. Even faith 'permeating every fiber' can look very different in different people. (youtube seems to have lost a reply I tried to make to yours about including a prayer, hopefully this isn't a repetition!). My experience comes having grown up with an anti-religious father while in the southeast US, surrounded by a lot of very loudly proselytizing Evangelicals whom often did directly mention their religion in every part of their life. The community I found, who to me represent everything I find most important about faith, were admittedly a fairly specific case- a congregation largely made up of the (very science heavy) grad students and professors from the very liberal (for the region) research university along with a scattering of divinity students from another nearby school. I very much see them in Anna, all the way up to including the divinity students and the Rector himself. The people I met there never hid their faith, and for many it clearly was an important part of every aspect of their life, but they also didn't refer to it by name in unrelated conversation or feel the need to state that it's the reason they act how they do. It under-laid how they interacted with/empathized with others, the priorities they made in life, etc but to them the point was to act in their faith not pray so others could hear, or name it even if it's clear they are talking about it. Even the sermons largely didn't repeat or even name scriptural passages often, instead taking the idea underlying them and expanding it to broader life and issues like how we treat others struggling with depression/crisis/homelessness/acceptance etc. Coming from that perspective I it feels to me like her faith is very core to her, if a struggle to find the right ways to live up to it as it is for everyone. I very much see it in the sermon she gives, an As I mentioned, I understand how the portrayal could feel like a superficial representation of faith in how she addresses it for the many with different experiences/communities and not suggesting it's a better way, faith is just a very personal experience. For that matter, there are those among the evangelicals I grew up around that would (and did) say the people who represent everything I find valuable about faith are not 'real Christians'. Just wanted to express that Anna is a wonderful representation of at least some versions of a deep experience of faith who clearly see it as core to themselves and are exactly the kind of person that led me to be a part of the Church at all.
Good commentary, and as always great job noticing stuff most miss. I'm curious if you can point out the portrayal of a christian pastor that you've enjoyed in media that has the qualities you're expecting. I was going to say that maybe Anna's past doesn't put her in a position to show outwardly pastoral attributes. She was a radical activist riddled with guilt, as another commenter pointed out. Yet, in a scene where she could have brought the pastoral to the focus, she didn't (Jordaan's funeral). So I can see how that can feel off for a christian viewer.
It's been a while since I watched it, but Shepard Book from Firefly is a pretty good portrayal I think. From memory I didn't entirely agree with all of his theology, but he was constantly bringing things back to the Bible and his faith was clearly a core part of his character. He was still a complex and flawed character, but he gave me the impression of someone who couldn't survive without his faith, and he wanted to share that with those around him.
@@WrensRamblings I agree with that. Shepherd Book was great. Not sure if someone has already mentioned this to you but one of the original novels authors/series writer was raised in an abusive religious setting. He always refers to it as the “cult”. There’s is probably more than a little of that in the reluctance to show those traits in Ana.
I think you'd much prefer the Anna character in the books, a lot of stuff (as you've mentioned) is cut to make the TV show and without spoiling it for you, there is more of her being a Pastor in the books that just didn't make it in to the show. I can't comment on how accurate/Christ-like you'd find it as a non-religious person, but there is certainly more there.
I don't think any 21st century human, esp. Christians, has any understanding what it means to find out God has another planet of souls to be God to. Christ lived only 2000 yrs ago; their bible might change a lot from the King James version we know. (Only the Mormons would be "prepared" for extra-terrestial life), see B.S.G.
![[TH] 2024 PMWC x EWC Main Tournament Day 1 | PUBG MOBILE WORLD CUP x ESPORTS WORLD CUP](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f5Coja1zCzo/mqdefault.jpg)
Enjoyed your reaction again. The scenes between Drummer and Ashford in this episode are fantastic. I like how "Spin the drum" carries so much weight and heft. I also enjoy how Bobbie is starting to see things through her own eyes.
Great episode. Look forward to the next one.
When we were originally introduced to Anna, we found out she was a reverend and a doctor who runs clinics for the needy. And she was a past acquaintance of the former UN Secretary-General. Just those 3 things tell us she has not prioritized faith. She does her best to help where she can when she can but some of it is from guilt by her previous association with Sorento-Gillis. She is constantly surrounded by victims of violence and is probably constantly disappointed by people. I think she is spread very thin and is looking for something “good” in the universe to contrast all the “bad” she has seen. I think she has faith in God but has little faith in humanity. She is just a flawed human who needs to learn from her mistakes and the mistakes of those around her.
This is a great episode, and I'm glad you enjoyed it too. Very hard hitting as the Protomolecule changes the rules and everyone has to scramble to survive the new world. There's a lot of great little moments that remind us of things we take for granted, like bleeding.
I love the moments in chaos of quiet - this moment, Cotyar talking to the infected crewmember on the Agatha King.
Anna stunned Melba with a riot tazer, we've seen them used on the deserters so they're nonlethal.
Agreed Martians tend to be xenophobic - they're essentially a cold war culture, and brought up knowing the Earth's entire armament is pointed at them, waiting for them to blink.
The Amos turn-away is a difficult one. I think it may just be another example of Amos confounding normal behavioural expectations. I'm not sure he means anything bad towards Naomi with it. He has no subtext. He said OK and went back to rest and recover. Maybe Naomi feels a pang of guilt as a result, but I don't think Amos is still holding a grudge.
We've never seen Amos [edited] hold a grudge (at least not against a nominally good person). Naomi is just not one of his moral compasses right now. And, yes, there is no subtext with Amos...he said "okay," he means "okay." The important thing is that he _cared_ to know if she intended to stay.
@@kirkdarling4120 exactly. Though I think you wrote Holden there, when you meant Amos.
@@kirkdarling4120 I am in agreeance. that "okay" for Amos did settle the issue, and he then leans his head into a comfortable position to continue resting.
I think we all sometimes forget how very uncomplicated Amos is.
@@davidbergfors6820I’ve actually always read the head turn more as a very vulnerable, even a bit childlike, expression of how he feels. In that moment he lets the wall he always has up around any sense of weakness like admitting someone could actually hurt him or that he could fear losing a relationship he depends on (as he so clearly does on Naomi).
It makes me think of a kid that’s felt hurt or lonely and was acting angry or like they just don’t care/never cared, and then someone they care a great deal about and look up to reminding them they really can depend on them. Turning away in the moment because they don’t want to admit (and/or know how to express) how much that means to them, especially since that means admitting they were hurt in the first place, but feeling safe enough from the reassurance that they let their guard down.
@@kirkdarling4120 Agreed. If he didn't care he wouldn't have asked.
Great reaction!!!!!!!!!!! I completely agree with ya, this episode was utterly brilliant from start to finish. The second half of this season is perfection, and that says a lot cuz when these were airing live i was completely convinced that the first half of this season, (ending with "Immolation"), was the best stretch of episode of the series and possibly of any series of episodes from any tv that I've ever seen. But then, the second half of this season somehow managed to one-up the first half! "Dandelion Sky," "Fallen World," and the 2-parter finale are better than almost any other trio of episodes from any tv series that I've ever watched, and I've watched tons of different tv-shows over the years!
Yes, fire behaves weirdly in zero G.
Great reaction!
The scenes between Drummer and Ashford in this one are so good!
When Amos asked Naomi " back to help, or back to stay?" 😢
Looking forward to the next one!
Love Ashford's speech in this ep
Babylon 5 is a sci-fi series that covers religion, faith, and spirituality in interesting ways and may be worth looking down the road at some point!
Without B5 we wouldn't have The Expanse. TV was never the same after.
@@rodentnolastname6612 heck I think there's also some DNA of Space: Above and Beyond in The Expanse too, especially with the UN and corporate conspiracies.
I too think you'd enjoy this show!
Love the sweater !
Fire does behave differently in zero G, but not necessarily as portrayed here (or in firefly). Doing a web search for fire in zero gravity should turn up additional info,’if you’re interested. Similarly, you commented on the tears pooling on Tilly’s eyes. This is fairly accurate; Chris Hadfield (astronaut) has discussed his experience with this on several occasions, one of which was his Ted talk called “what I learned from going blind in space”, which I commend to your attention. Lastly, a thought about Amos. I haven’t read the books, so there may be aspects of this I’m missing. I tend to view Amos through a lens of “he’s on the autism spectrum”; even if not entirely accurate, it doesn’t feel entirely /inaccurate/. Someone on the spectrum, upon hearing what Naomi said, could well have just filed that under “ok, she’s back” and that would be the end of it. I don’t know if I’m right or wrong, it just feels like it might be a partial explanation of his behavior.
I had a hard time buying that anger alone would be enough of a motivator for someone with very limited zero g training to put on a vac suit alone and chase after someone through the ring space. Thankfully, we have the book for additional context and I have to say, it's more entertaining, hilarious and far more believable.
I've started listening to the entire audiobook series again and I'm currently on Book 3. Fantastic ride.
The zero gravity blood thing should also apply to fish and whales and human fetus and eggs, etc. And it doesn't.
Buoyancy is similar to micro-gravity, but not exactly the same. The show has exaggerated the problems for dramatic effect and to allow Ashford his magnanimous hero moment, but there are real concerns about intra-cavity haemmorhage problems and performing things like open-abdomen surgery in zero G. There are scientific papers about this, and also reports from ISS astronauts about very slow wound healing. Maybe not "a death sentence", but it is worse in space than on Earth.
@@MattNolanCustom Good point. I was thinking more of hydrostatic pressure and density of blood, which is within a few 1000ths of that of water. The question is at 1g an internal wound drains or is resorbed. But drains to where? And why? And why wouldn't it for astronauts? And one must ask how hard it is to throw them into a 100% O2, if they are not already breathing it.
The other question is, will this become part of common knowledge because of The Expanse, like The Martian and Mars has storms that can shred your habitat and blow over a loaded rocket. Strongest winds on Mars are about 60mph or 95 kph and the atmosphere is 1/50 the density of that of Earth. But I will bet you a banana that any poling among science enthusiasts will say those storms are very dangerous.
Oh well, dramatic license. I saw a fire in an instrument panel expanding outward slowly. A very cool effect and one might ask, what was it burning?
@@charlesspringer4709 looking things up, you can die in as little as 6 hours from internal bleeding here on Earth. Surgical intervention is necessary. Only very mild cases, will sort themselves out naturally. To operate in zero-G requires complex logistics and, certainly, good quality, expertly wrangled and sterile suction. In an Apollo-like low pressure 100% Oxygen environment, generating low enough pressure for effective suction of blood is a challenge, but in an ISS-like 14psi normal air mix scenario it should be easy enough. So, it's a bit hand-wavy! As for the zero-G flames coming from the instrument panel, that's high-stakes drama gas burning
Anna is definatley a flawed character (as we all are) she's definitely selfish... Abandons her family to explore the gate, ignores a crewman depending on her in favour of her interests, leading to his death. Focusing on her guilt (my supposition) she phones in a memorial service, again not really listening and focusing on her own mistakes she gives some terrible advice to a freind. Who dies as a result.... I think you'll have more thoughts on her to come.
I'm not convinced shes written well as a pastor, i think shes (written as) a pastor because shes supposed to be better, and is being confronted by that.
In that sense i think shes a well written character- or at least a character i like (i'm not a writer, i know nuffin)
This is one of my fave episodes, and probably made start to love Ashford.
I'm not sure that the advice Anna gave to Tilly was terrible. It only looks like that if you know that Melba is incredibly dangerous and only us, the audience, knows that. Under normal circumstances, you don't expect people to be homicidal, and suggesting to go and offer help to someone in trouble is good advice. I also don't think she "phoned in" the memorial service. Even Tilly as, clearly, a non religious and on the surface a quite shallow person was moved and impressed by it.
Anna is flawed, but not as flawed as you are interpreting it, IMO.
@@MattNolanCustom that's why it was bad advice, she didn't ask for any further details, or what the situation was with this person... She wasn't really interested. Sure you'd never expect someone's life to be in danger but it could make things worse.
To be clear, I think Anna is a good character, just that her misteps had disproportionately bad consequences.
@@no_no_just_no Tilly didn't know Melba was homicidal either. Asking for more details wouldn't have changed the advice or the outcome.
@@MattNolanCustom
Anna: "could you give me more details"
Tilly: "well her father's the guy that killed everyone on Eros and sicced it on Earth. She disappeared after he got arrested and the assets confiscated and for some reason is dressed as an electrician here and now, which is weird because she was a socialite when I knew her, and couldn't wire a plug" .... wouldn't raise any red flags?
@@no_no_just_no did Tilly say anything that indicated she perceived any red flags?
legs legs legs legs legs legs legs legs !!
"You changed your hair." In the novels, Naomi has a nervous quirk of hiding her face behind long hair. They wisely removed that from the series (and generally keep long hair tied back anyway for both in-universe logical and cinemagraphic technical reasons), but give it a nod by changing her hairstyle each book.
We haven't seen Amos holding grudges, but he's rarely wrong in his evaluation of people (that's part of what has kept him alive), so having been so wrong about Naomi's fidelity was an existential shock.
Martians are such petty folk.
Ashford is completely sincere about wanting to show Belters as an civilized nation, and offering the Behemoth to everyone is what he'd do. But it's a bold move, and would be surprising (even negatively so) to his own Belter crew, so explicitly identifying himself as the captain in firm control was necessary.
Yeah, especially as Naomi was Amos' morality version of a seeing-eye dog.
@@Sinewmire That's a good way to put it. If you discover your seeing eye dog would lead you into traffic...that would be a shock.
Anna hardly talks about her faith at all. She's kind of busy just trying to survive.
I was brought up in a Christian faith. Have since lapsed, but that is immaterial to this discussion. Outside of church services, the priests I knew were not constantly proselytising. I don't think Anna is under-written as a Pastor in the circumstances that she is in, and given that we have had 300 years of getting more liberal, ecumenical and secular. She certainly isn't written that way in the books, and Book 3 is crammed into half a season so much of her story is omitted. In the show, how much mechanic work have we actually seen Amos do? How much actual engineering work have we seen Naomi do? Some, but not lots, and these people are main characters. Anna's role is mid-level. She's a main character for a couple of seasons. The show is not about religion, or engineering. It's about humans coping with human traits in the face of huge upsets to the status quo and a big set of allegories about civilisation and the aims and hopes of getting better at doing it.
@@MattNolanCustom I'm a quite religious Christian, and I'd say Anna is predictably on the trajectory that Methodists appear today to be on. No surprise, just as I was unsurprised that Mormons in that day would be preparing to leave the Solar System.
I think a short prayer, something along the lines of "God, help us get through this" as she is waiting for a door to open or something like that would have gone a long way to incorporate that part of the character.
sadly though, I think the writers didn't think far enough to include such a thing, oddly.
@@davidbergfors6820I think this sort of expectation depends a lot on personal experience with faith, and denomination. My own come from having grown up entirely outside religion with a fairly anti religious father but in the southeast US surrounded by very, very loudly proselytizing evangelicals… and finding my way to the American Episcopal church as an adult, specifically one with a congregation almost entirely made up of grad students and professors from the very liberal research college it’s just off the campus of. I very much see the kind of people I found a place with in Anna’s character, including the divinity students who attended from another nearby university and the Rector himself. They never hid the importance or their faith or it’s tangible reality to them, and it clearly ran through every part of their life, but not because they prayed publicly/out loud or directly brought it up out of context. Their decisions and how they interacted with others/showed empathy etc relied on their faith without having to say so.
I very much get that it’s a different experience for many (most?) others who consider themselves religious, and that’s certainly valid. I also know that plenty of the religious communities I grew up around including my ex in-laws would say the people I found to exemplify what matters about faith to me aren’t “real Christians”. But for me at least Anna is actually a _very_ welcome, and recognizable, portrayal of the kinds of people that are the very reason I wound up in the Church.
Great thoughts and well worded
it really is something special with an episode with a "smaller" issue being handled in different ways by people with different views.
And yes, I agree with you, and it really bares repeating; Annas portrayal of Christian may be a positive thing because it is not the standard villanization of our faith, but it's not good since it's clearly very flat, one dimensional and the subject of faith that should permeate every fiber of her being is barely mentioned at all.
Coming from what I'd guess is a very different experience of religion/faith myself, I don't agree with it being a flat representation of faith or how what that has to look like (though I fully get how it could feel that way for many). For me, Anna is a _very_ welcome and recognizable representation of the people that I found a place with in the American Episcopal church as an adult medical student having grown up athiest/agnostic. Even faith 'permeating every fiber' can look very different in different people.
(youtube seems to have lost a reply I tried to make to yours about including a prayer, hopefully this isn't a repetition!). My experience comes having grown up with an anti-religious father while in the southeast US, surrounded by a lot of very loudly proselytizing Evangelicals whom often did directly mention their religion in every part of their life. The community I found, who to me represent everything I find most important about faith, were admittedly a fairly specific case- a congregation largely made up of the (very science heavy) grad students and professors from the very liberal (for the region) research university along with a scattering of divinity students from another nearby school. I very much see them in Anna, all the way up to including the divinity students and the Rector himself.
The people I met there never hid their faith, and for many it clearly was an important part of every aspect of their life, but they also didn't refer to it by name in unrelated conversation or feel the need to state that it's the reason they act how they do. It under-laid how they interacted with/empathized with others, the priorities they made in life, etc but to them the point was to act in their faith not pray so others could hear, or name it even if it's clear they are talking about it. Even the sermons largely didn't repeat or even name scriptural passages often, instead taking the idea underlying them and expanding it to broader life and issues like how we treat others struggling with depression/crisis/homelessness/acceptance etc. Coming from that perspective I it feels to me like her faith is very core to her, if a struggle to find the right ways to live up to it as it is for everyone. I very much see it in the sermon she gives, an
As I mentioned, I understand how the portrayal could feel like a superficial representation of faith in how she addresses it for the many with different experiences/communities and not suggesting it's a better way, faith is just a very personal experience. For that matter, there are those among the evangelicals I grew up around that would (and did) say the people who represent everything I find valuable about faith are not 'real Christians'. Just wanted to express that Anna is a wonderful representation of at least some versions of a deep experience of faith who clearly see it as core to themselves and are exactly the kind of person that led me to be a part of the Church at all.
Good commentary, and as always great job noticing stuff most miss. I'm curious if you can point out the portrayal of a christian pastor that you've enjoyed in media that has the qualities you're expecting.
I was going to say that maybe Anna's past doesn't put her in a position to show outwardly pastoral attributes. She was a radical activist riddled with guilt, as another commenter pointed out. Yet, in a scene where she could have brought the pastoral to the focus, she didn't (Jordaan's funeral). So I can see how that can feel off for a christian viewer.
It's been a while since I watched it, but Shepard Book from Firefly is a pretty good portrayal I think. From memory I didn't entirely agree with all of his theology, but he was constantly bringing things back to the Bible and his faith was clearly a core part of his character. He was still a complex and flawed character, but he gave me the impression of someone who couldn't survive without his faith, and he wanted to share that with those around him.
@@WrensRamblings I agree with that. Shepherd Book was great. Not sure if someone has already mentioned this to you but one of the original novels authors/series writer was raised in an abusive religious setting. He always refers to it as the “cult”. There’s is probably more than a little of that in the reluctance to show those traits in Ana.
I think you'd much prefer the Anna character in the books, a lot of stuff (as you've mentioned) is cut to make the TV show and without spoiling it for you, there is more of her being a Pastor in the books that just didn't make it in to the show. I can't comment on how accurate/Christ-like you'd find it as a non-religious person, but there is certainly more there.
I don't think any 21st century human, esp. Christians, has any understanding what it means to find out God has another planet of souls to be God to. Christ lived only 2000 yrs ago; their bible might change a lot from the King James version we know. (Only the Mormons would be "prepared" for extra-terrestial life), see B.S.G.