Same here. Still don’t know why they went with Goldeneye instead of Perfect Dark, which is objectively an upgrade. Neither are even close to Paper Mario, though.
"When it comes to N64, the essence comes down to that multiplayer or single player adventure." That's literally every game ever on every console ever. It's either a multiplayer game or a single player game, that'd be the "essence" of every console then.
And yet they talked about the games and not about how they got there, ie the music argument. You needed to mention that the music was recycled because without the previous games you wouldn’t have ocarina of time. Give the games merit for what it is and not just based on “I like the music” I didn’t think I’d say this because this little project was a good idea but it seems like just another top 10 by a random magazine.
What logic says that N64 games weren't music focused? The LoZ game discussed here literally had 'Ocarina' in the title, and then Majora's Mask actually ended up expanding on the importance of music and had a ton more original compositions. Honestly, I'd postulate that Mario 64 and 'Banjo' 'Kazooie' lose a lot of their playability without the background tracks spurring you onward. There's a lot of walking from point A to point B in N64 games that could have been much more tedious to traverse without the sound and environmental design distracting you when you really think about it.
It could be worse, a person could be named Arin Hanson and not understand how XYZ soace & Z-targetting works and call a game terrible because of it, which even a child can understand. Z-targetting always felt pretty good to me, even in OoT, mostly because casual combat is just mashing attack and jump-attack, and would be some of the worst 3D combat if you couldn't lock on.
I think Z-Targeting itself is fine but the camera could be kind of screwy still. Although I think I had more camera struggles in Twilight Princess (Wii version) than any of the 3D Zeldas that came before it.
Valanway I think Arin’s point was that the way z-targeting changed the camera, it meant that it created a divide between exploration and combat, which the 2D games always combined. BotW didn’t change the camera angle in the same way (ie no zoom in on link) when targeting and so combat feels much more integrated into exploration. Also, Nintendo didn’t account for the extra axis when considering some of the enemies, so keese are stupidly annoying to kill and take a disproportionately long time to deal with. It’s not really that Nintendo did it poorly, they just could’ve done better. Arin even says that the targeting makes combat complicated as a compliment. Whatever you personally feel about whether the mechanics work well, I think it’s a misrepresentation of Arin’s argument to say he thought z-targeting was bad, more he thought they handled it badly, or at least they could’ve done better.
Because it seperated combat from exploration; making combat complex. However, they didn't make the enemies complex. Therefore, making the combat sluggish and uninteresting. It never felt natural throughout the entire game. Eeh. The game would have been worse without z-targeting. Besides, the worst part about Oot was the puzzle design.
What about kirby and the crystal shards. Best kirby game ever. You can combine powers, become fireworks to blow up enemies, use Nes' PK thunder, and you can even have a Darth Maul lightsaber. How is this not the best n64 game of all time.
If they had also added Perfect Dark and Banjo-Tooie along with Conker's Bad Fur Day and Kirby 64, then their bracket would've been even on both sides. Hopefully it worked out like that in an alternate universe.
It's just sad to see another N64 comparison series come down to Mario VS Zelda. This series was, in essence, supposed to be randomized so this was less likely to happen. Not that Mario and Zelda aren't good games, they just get Top 2 almost every time.
Banjo-Kazooie unfortunately has the deck stacked against it in this episode. I wish more people on the panel played it. BUT, I will give it to PBG and Jared they are showing the game respect instead of outright dismissing it.
I definitely liked Tooie more when I was younger but I think Kazooie is overall a tighter experience. There was wayyyy too much backtracking in Tooie. I need to go back and play through Tooie again though. It's been a long time since I have done that. But YES grabbing ledges was a godsend lol.
@@vgsquirrel *cough cough* Grunty Industries *cough cough* fuck that level. In all seriousness the sole reason I did not 100%Banjo Tooie was that sky level and not knowing where the fuck to go.
Ehh I'd argue Banjo holds up better and can make for a more enjoyable experience. Goldeneye is simply not a good game and the only reason it got this far was nostalgia
Not nostalgia but the fact it is a precursor. FPS simply wasn't possible on console before goldeneye. Games like Halo, Call of Duty and many more owe this game a lot. But it hasn't aged well like Banjo has.
TheMajorStranger You also have to remember this is best n64 game not best modern game. For the time, Goldeneye was an amazing game, it’s just not good anymore because of how much shooters have evolved and how poorly the graphics and controls have aged
I kind of wish the premise was more well defined at the start of this, and I hope that they clarify in future seasons. To me the "Best N64 game" is just the "best game on the N64", not "the game that is most iconically N64". For 90s cartoons I'm hoping that they clarify this, do they mean the most watchable, highest-quality show, or do they mean the most "90s feeling" cartoon. Because right now the hosts feel like they're arguing to different ends.
The problem with that is then we would know immediately who would win. Its garsh darn obvious Majouras mask is objectivley the best game on the console
Honestly i feel like 90% of the time they are talking about which is the better game first and then they swap too which is the better n64 game. Like in the future i just want it to be the best game on X console or X TV show. It just feels like they using mental gymnastics just too justify why X game is better for the n64 overall or whatever even if they don't necessarily agree with their own statements lol. Still love the show but it gets a little annoying sometimes.
I agree. It seems to bounce around, and the arguments they've made in previous episodes are backed by a different sight of "best N64 game". I understand looking at it from a perspective of what the game did for the console, but personally I think it would be more consistent and interesting for them to discuss the best game in light of it's design. Ocarina is so fondly renowned, and I feel like that's carrying it through this tournament. It was a fun game, and sentimental experience, but I feel that this should've been Banjo vs Paper Mario vs Star Fox 64. They're arguably the most consistent in cohesive, well-designed game-play. Setting Paper Mario aside as it's more of a story-driven game, the simple yet solid game-play is what drives the player through Banjo and Star Fox
When you ask “what’s the best N64 game”, that’s not a black and white question. When you say they should pick the game with the best gameplay, that’s a black and white answer.
I’m hoping for Banjo to win this round, but with 2 people basically not playing it and Furst openly saying he doesn’t like it, and considering its going against Ocarina, i see no hope for it
So close for me, but Banjo edges out Ocarina just because every inch of that game is designed to be explored, with unique secrets or items and collectables. Banjo is just so simply yet expertly crafted and tightly designed. And while Ocarina is brilliant and does have those jaw dropping moments, great set pieces and moments to really explore, it also has things like Hyrule Field, the Desert trek, even something like the lead in to Zora's domain that feel like filler and make them hurdles to get to the next fun moment. Banjo just keeps giving and entertaining pretty much non-stop consistently through the entire adventure.
but the problem with games like banjo is that, yeah you can find collectibles everywhere, but how useful are they. outside of trying to get 100% completion they are not worth as much as it is in ocarina. when you find a secret in a game like ocarina it feels bigger cause its harder to get to and you can most likely use it. it being a heart piece an item or to a lesser degree rupees. having shit everywhere for people to find doesn't make it better to find things. its quality over quantity. do you want to collect a bunch of small progression items and some that don't matter or get big items that change the game in bigger ways.
I disagree, hyrule field is supposed to be open for 2 reasons, first, its the first truly open area you experience as young link after only one dungeon so you are enticed to explore it and thats when you meet with the giant peahats, and grottos, but to avoid having the player losing focus of the quest that's when night comes and stalchildren come out making it a dangerous place, forcing you to seek shelter and second reason, when you are an adult you need big open area to hunt for poes (which you are pretty much guaranteed to find naturally when you first get epona) the lead in to zora's domain is filled with stuff, magic beans vendor, a piece of heart which you need to bring a cucko with you so you are more careful in your exploring, the frogs, the shortcut to lost woods and again, when you are adult link you see the results of planting magic beans which help you during the biggoron sword fetch quest At the desert.....it's a desert wouldn't make much sense to have it filled with npcs and houses (plus you do get the flags, the longshot sandpit and the ghost guide) and it's pretty much a 15 minute section between a "town" and a temple (which you can later warp to, avoiding the whole place)
@@PlayPodOG most of banjo kazooie's collectables are important and enjoyable to gather. Keep in mind to even beat the final boss you need 94 of 100 jiggies in the game. Most of banjo' s kazooies collectables revolve around gathering jiggies including the mumbo tokens, jinjos, and other smaller collectibles. The big exception being the honeycombs which are similar to the heart pieces in OOT. Basically what I'm trying to say is most of banjo kazooie's collectibles share a huge purpose outside of 100% completion.
That's also true, I think more I just meant there's more of a sense of every single area of each level had so much care and specific necessity put into it rather than it's simply more to do if that makes sense? I'm also very back and forth between the two though, and also super agree Ocarina's discoveries are certainly more impactful and overall it definitely does have more of a puzzle emphasis- just I appreciate how Banjo has just absolutely no filler because it's so simple (which I guess could long run be a major con against it too).
the thought for jirard to include "or whoever they may be" after boy or girl was so incredibly heartwarming in a way I could never articulate. small comments like that are so insignificant and unnoticeable to the majority and that's cool, but is so important beyond words to the people he's talking to. just thank him so much, thank you for including it. enjoying the heck out of this series. love how everyone can be so objective when it's the point of it all, while still including things very personal. would take strength I could never muster p:
just realized the video must be 'liked' to improve the chances of seeing more content like this. Great video as always fellas (going back to like prior videos in hopes this continues.)
Wow, I can’t believe it’s gonna come down to Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. Who would have thought this would happen? Surely, nobody could have foreseen such a twist! It’s just unbelievable! I’m speechless!
Wow, you guys, way to spoil the outcome. Hey, you guys, I'm a three-year-old whose parents are totally internet illiterate, and I totally could've never ever in my life guessed this would be the end of the bracket. You guys, think about the unborn fetuses that want to watch the series from the comfort of their own womb. God! Can't believe you would spoil that without thinking of the glimmers in the eyes of future fathers, who totally wouldn't guess it outright.
That's nothing against Goldeneye. It was made by the same company. Perfect Dark was the spiritual successor and shows how much could be done with the framework Goldeneye set up.
Perfect Dark came out at the twilight of the n64 when the GameCube was already slated for release. There's a reason almost nobody remembers it but everyone knows Goldeneye
Goldeneye started it, Perfect Dark perfected it (appropriately enough). It's fair to have Goldeneye on the list because it was certainly more impactful and ubiquitous, but I agree -- Perfect Dark is the rare game that improves on its predecessor in virtually every single way. It's my favorite multiplayer shooter to this day.
I feel that Ocarina was guaranteed this round, now if Majora was in this round we would have had a better debate on mechanics. But also if the brackets were different it would have changed the outcome drastically. Like what if Mario 64 and Ocarina were in the same side of the bracket? What would be in the final round? Mario 64 or Ocarina vs. Smash or Goldeneye? they should have seperated Majora and Ocarina at least
The best way to figure out which game on the N64 is the best is to give someone who never played a N64 these games and then ask him which was the best Thats where i step in
It'll be a weird one, because SM64 is more fun to just pick up and play, but OoT is arguably a better game to play all in one go. I think it depends on personal preference. There's a reason they've got 96% and 97% (respectively) on GameRankings. Honestly, it's a lot like arguing Odyssey vs. BotW
Personally, I think the reason so many people think OOT is the greatest game ever is because of the spectacle. Seriously, you have to look on the ceiling and Ghoma is there, you see Volvagia fly out of the volcano, and who could forget the awesome final boss? You run up the spiral staircase, the organ getting louder and louder, and then you fight Ganondorf at the top of the tower, then the castle crumbles, and you fight Ganon, only his silhouette is visible, there's thunder, and the epic music... Basically, the game is pretty good, but it has practically unbeatable awesome moments.
@Hey Guys, This Is My New Name It is your opinion "boiii". But from people who really have broad experience with shooters anything on console is a joke (at least until Modern Warfare where trench between platforms mostly ended).
Jirard is on to something. As much as I love and admire Ocarina and what it's brought to the table for future Zeldas and games, there are far more games on the n64 that I love more so... Let it die
just because a game has good multiplayer doesn't make it better, the biggest question is, can you play that same multiplayer by yourself and still have just as much fun against computer players? not everyone can have friends over when they want to play a video game, just because it uses the 4 player aspect of the n64, what will you enjoy when no one else is around?
Ssj Ichigo goldeneye didn't have bots. That was perfect dark. I have a lot of older cousins so I remember having way more fun with goldeneye than the other two.
Yeah, the discussion about it's influence first person shooters was pretty crucial. Paved the way for games like Halo, CoD, and Socom for a bit. Red Faction too.
My brothers and I still play Golden Eye. We'll get together and drunkenly play the game with friends. Lowest kills sits, second lowest picks the next level weapons etc. We love it and now with kids they are playing it and starting to whoop up on us. It's a simple game that can still be fun and is less spastic than new shooters. I like the anticipation or the fear of running into someone Golden Eye had. In today's shooters everyone just runs around fast and it's so crazy. No one would do that in real live and I feel Bond is a better representation, which is sad.
Yes! I remember setting up a game in multiplayer by myself just to explore the maps, input cheats and have fun. So it still was a lot of fun even without playing with other people LOL but that was probably just me not sure if anyone else would do that. 😂
"I have no friends so I hate multiplayer games" is how you sound. I'm sorry you were robbed of your childhood ... and/or just too young to experience the n64 in the first place. Trust me bro, if you had an n64, you would have friends to play it with. And that goldeneye experience is top notch.
I have an anormous amount of respect and admiration for Jirard, but...while Ocarina is getting praise, everyone seems to jump on the bandwagon of Majora being the better game out of the two. Sure, Majora was dark and its' characters were great - it was an emotional game. But...don't forget that Ocarina of Time did have moments like that too. Go watch Yungtown's videos of Ocarina of Time (Sub2Yungtown). Ocarina literally has an epic story where a slogan like "Time To Grow Up" could fit the game to a T. How many times haven't you been taken seriously as a kid, getting patronized? How many times have you felt a bit insecure, doubting yourself? In Ocarina of Time, Links faces some pretty dickish comments from NPCs just because he is a kid, but he soldiers through it all. He rises to the occasion - despite being a child. And when you pull out the Mastersword and become Adult Link...it's just so iconic. Link and YOU, the player, have time and time again shown fortitude and bravery when it was needed - despite being a kid, you took the mantle of an adult and put the legwork in, and it felt like when you became Adult Link for the first time, it was a testament to your unyielding courage, determination and growth as a character. It attested that you, in facing the tribulations in trying to rid the world of Ganondorf, had grown up. Majora's Mask is an incredible game, make no mistake. But in my eyes, Ocarina was better. EDIT: Spelling.
That is a very good argument for Ocarina, but I have an issue with it. I feel like if Ocarina really took that approach, they could have made an even more iconic videogame than they did. However, they did not take that approach because of 1 thing. Link is still a mute. If Link is supposed to represent the player, he has to show emotion to something, otherwise he just feels like a lifeless cardboard cutout that nobody relates to, which is exactly the case. Wind Waker in my personal opinion had the perfect emotional expressions for Link, and it would have been brilliant if they could have implemented that sort of character for Link in Ocarina. This can be said for Majora's Mask as well, but the focus of that game isn't Link, the focus is everybody else. And everybody else in Majora's Mask feels alive and complete. Link is very much a side character in that game, not the destined hero. I think this point makes Majora's Mask feel much more special and unique than Ocarina of Time in the long run, and it's definitely the game I go back to play more frequently.
That's an interesting point of discussion. I see the transition from child to adult Link not as a reward for what you had to become as a child, but rather as a catalyst for making a man out of you. From the start of the game up to retrieving the Master Sword, you were on a fun adventure as a child, exploring and doing light hearted quests for people with minor troubles. Granted, the first dungeon was to stop an evil monster from poisoning and killing the Deku Tree, but none of it felt like it was too serious. You have fun helping people, playing games, sneaking around a castle, and are going to beat the big bad guy! But then what happens? You get the Master Sword and get trapped for 7 years. When you return to Hyrule, you are forced to see the actual devastation that Ganondorf caused while you were away. Hyrule Castle has become an evil fortress in a beautiful land that has become desolate. The people from Castle Town are either dead or moved to Kakariko Village. Goron City is empty, its inhabitants eaten or captured. Zora's Domain is empty, their deity missing (or dead), their king and the waters that define the Zora frozen. Your childhood home overrun by monsters. By becoming an adult, you are thrust into a world where there are real problems; the life you've known as a child is gone. That's when reality sets in and you realize you are the only hope for this world. You have so much responsibility dumped on your back, you have no choice but to find the courage to push forward. In my opinion, this is when the game teaches you that you have to grow up. Honestly I would argue that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are separate but equal. Ocarina of Time delivers such a fundamental, timeless fantasy adventure that anyone can enjoy the tale but is especially useful for what it can teach children. Majora's Mask has lessons that anyone can learn from; it's a more emotional, intimate tale that teaches rather deep concepts in a more artistic way. Both beautiful, but in different ways.
I always thought Majora was more profound when I was young, but the older I get, the more I appreciate Ocarina's story. It may be simple and built directly on familiar archetypes, but it delivers powerful themes of growing up and saying goodbye that strike my heart quite a bit deeper than Majora does these days. I've been playing Ocarina regularly for most of my life, but recently its end credits brought me to tears. The elation of Hyrule celebrating Ganon's defeat, juxtaposed with Mido and King Zora mourning their personal losses as the sages look over the world before departing for the last time -- and of course Link and Navi saying goodbye -- are some of the most emotional scenes I've ever experienced in any media.
Link doesn't talk, but he isn't a mute. And...well, they left a lot to the imagination to the player, since he's supposed to be a link between the two. Undoubtedly you've heard that story before. I think T. rexExpert01 brings up some valid points, read his comment. At the end of the day, a lot of people seem to prefer Majora's Mask and here's the thing - that is ABSOLUTELY fine. What I don't like, is how a lot of those people seem to disregard Ocarina of Time, dubbing those who like it "blinded by nostalgia" which is only said to diminish fans' opinions of Ocarina it seems like, which is sad commentary on their part.
Banjo's first half holds up better than Ocarina but the second half really suffers a lot from 90s game design. It's too janky and slippery for you to lose an hour of progress by misinput. Ocarina remains a great modern game because it plays around the N64's limitations a bunch better, and is still an incredibly designed puzzle game to boot. The combat is passable, but that's ok because they did it better later on and the fights are still pretty fun.
Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with Jirard preferring Banjo. I think it's a completely valid opinion. What's frustrating is how he wants Ocarina to lose simply because everyone talks about it. I get it, but I feel like he's almost holding a grudge against the game. You can't fault Ocarina for everyone who says it's the "best game ever" if that's not what you believe. Vote against Ocarina if you truly believe another game is better, objectively or subjectively, but don't say you'd vote for "anything" just because you don't want to see Ocarina win. I feel like that's terribly unfair.
I don’t understand why Jirard has such a burning hate toward Ocarina of Time. If the only reason that he doesn’t like it is because people talk about how good it is, then that’s ludicrous. He constantly talks about what makes a good N64 game, but to say that he doesn’t want OoT to win just because people love it, then I’m sorry Jirard, but your arguments are completely moot.
Overexposure and constant overrating can sour a person's perspective and love or appreciation of a product, especially games and movies. I personally do the same thing with OoT and Final Fantasy 7. Both games I know for a fact have slightly-older and younger siblings that are far better in design and visuals, but don't get all the praise because they weren't released in that point of a lot of people's childhood where nostalgia is strongest, and with both games being the first of their kind of their series; 3D games with an emphasis on the graphics. I also got sick of seeing it, without fail, even in ultra casual lists, in top 10 lists, where I always felt it was placed way to high, considering the advancement in their own franchises and genres
It's more that at this point people don't actually analyses the game and just put it on top without thinking about it. It just stagnate any conversation about it, makes it boring and impossible to gain new perspective/information out of it.
@@Valanway That's a shower thought I had a while back: I wanna see somebody do "Top 7fast7furious Supernintendo 64cube U games" lists, except with the caveat that OOT, Mario 64 and whatever else they feel is appropriate (gonna be subjective obvi) are left out because otherwise 70% of the list would just be echoing everyone else.
@@pickk90 Yeah, OoT is such a story driven game with puzzles but it's like they forgot about the puzzles in Banjo. Banjo's were more fun for me as a child. Zelda's puzzles were too difficult for me as a kid and then too easy for me as a grown teenager. There wasn't a time I went, "Oh yeah, great puzzle." But the situations with learning how to use Kazooie to find objects and how to interchange them for maximum gameplay really had me thinking on how to beat bosses or traverse the world. Cut scenes and storyline was way above Banjo. I think Zelda has more replayability but Banjo was more fun for me. I just hate that I had to ask my dad how to beat Queen Gouma (sp?).
The one thing I’d suggest for next season is defining criteria first, cause it’s hard to get if “best” N64 game means most well-crafted, or most significant. Constantly redefining means a lot of slowdown in the arguments so it’d just give more structure. That said, this is awesome and I’m down for the finals.
Banjo is so very fun to play through, but honestly Ocarina just leaves more for you to think about. Banjo’s got a more charming world, but Ocarina’s world is more in depth.
Agreed. Shane is very "to the point". I can't say he's the person that speaks the most, but the arguments that comes out of his mouth are heavy as hell. I tip my hat to you, Shane!
I think Golden Eye 007 is actually a larger reflection of the N64 than people think. Graphics: 007 is the poster child of that era with it’s “ugly” polygon graphics, which the N64 and competitors are known for. Controls: 007’s controls are a hodgepodge to make a working shooter on a console. The N64 controller is a crazy mix of buttons and joystick to make 3D environments playable. They both feel awkward, but they were overdesigned to the point of working and feeling memorable. Multiplayer: A main feature of N64 was having 4-player gaming built in right away. 007 uses 4-player action so well that it’s mainly remembered just for that. Companies Supporting the System: It’s obvious that Rareware played the largest role outside of Nintendo for making games for the system. Rareware were innovators with any genre they tackled around that time. What’s a game that innovated a genre and was one of the most popular Rare games? Golden Eye 007. There’s only one thing that I think doesn’t agree with them mirroring each other. The N64 is KNOWN for being driven by it’s first party IPs. 007 doesn’t meet up with that by using the James Bond license... I feel if Golden Eye 007 starred a Nintendo IP (like Donkey Kong or something) and not James Bond, it would literally be the best N64 game. The game and system would be symbolic representations of each other in every way.
Mario 64 vs Ocarina in the final. Glad to know this bracket has officially devolved into the oldest forum debate in Internet history. Tune in next week for the 90s cartoon bracket to devolve into Batman vs X-Men.
As much as I would have liked Banjo Kazooie to make it further, no one can deny how iconic OOT was. Personally, I also did get more enjoyment out of OOT. Banjo Kazooie was a great game, and I will probably go back and play it many more times... But I still remember how annoyed I was going through the levels and realizing, "Cool, I got some weird rubber boots... Now I have to go back to a bunch of stages and find out where I needed them!" Obviously this did not only happen with the boots. (Flight, Running Shoes, etc). Ocarina of Time did make you go back for a little bit... but only for Gold Skultulas or for when you were an Adult and had different things to do in the area.
@@PlayPodOG I'm not a morjora fan, I like each game equally. But you're saying it's subjective, then immediately saying after that it 100% deserves to be there. Don't contradict yourself.
me saying it deserves it doesn't mean my opinion is valued over someone elses. im just saying that the spot was well deserved. majora also 100% deserves the spot as well. it doesn't mean it should have won. it just means it deserves it. there is a clear difference
it's disappointing to see the "ocarina shouldn't win because ocarina always wins" and I agree with PBG, the "problem" with ocarina's combat can be easily fixed by using the items AKA the things you spend the whole game searching for; deku nuts aren't just for jokes and bombs aren't just for blasting walls
The only reason Goldeneye's multiplayer was so well loved in the 90s is because there were literally no other 4-player console shooters back then. It had zero competition. Not hard to be the star pupil when you're the only one showing up to class.
Banjo-Kazooie is the pinnacle of 3D platformers. There have been several better Zelda games and much better shooters since Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye. There are only perhaps 1 or 2 3D platformers better than Banjo-Kazooie since then.
but banjo wasn't as revolutionary. it did what it did very very well but it didn't impact the industry the same way. mario 64 is usually looked at as an example of 3d platforming origins. banjo expanded on that and made the collectathon genre but not a lot of companies have made those types of games and thats why its hard to find games better then it. but i would argue that jak and daxter, the original 3 spyro games. and a hat in time (more like mario then banjo but it still counts) are better. but its all subjective
You're absolutely right. But one of those 2 better games was Tooie. It's kind of a bummer that no one voted that game onto the list. What do you think are better 3D platformers than Banjo-Kazooie? BK was my absolute favorite game for like 15 years, but now I'd say Tooie, Psychonauts and Odyssey have it beat. I've heard great things about A Hat in Time, but haven't played it yet. Yooka-Laylee was a disappointment though.
just 3d platformers. all jak games. hat in time. mario galaxy and odyssey . spyro. those are the only ones i can think of right now. and it is subjective. i understand people will value different games above others and it makes sense. but there are some just straight facts you have to look at as well
Are y'all gonna do a PS1 version of this? The whole time Jirard was talking about Banjo I couldn't stop myself from thinking, "Spyro did all that and more."
I am here whit you completionist! Zelda is my favorite Franchise, but Banjo has a special love in my heart and childhood memory. I remenber playing both games, and feel like Zelda was a more dark , mysterious and challenger game. Banjo in other hand was so much fun all the time, the characters, the voice lines, the music, the worlds we have to explore, was all so unique and beautiful. It was a tough one, but we all know GoldenEye was the real winner :V
Ive never played Banjo, but I agree with the idea that Ocarina is kinda overrated. Dont get me wrong, it's a good game but...you kinda get tired hearing about it all the time
As some one who didn't play Goldeneye growing up, the game is completely shit to me now lol Its aged so poorly and aside from nostalgia there's no reason to play it lol And, it really didn't revolutionize any games. You can say it founded multiplayer shooters on console, but first person shooters existed before.
Just because you don't understand that it revolutionized things doesn't mean that it didn't. Before games like Goldeneye a lot of the people who like games now didn't even like video games. They saw them as too immature or too simple, wrong or not, doesn't matter because that's what they thought. "DOOM" did indeed exist, and so did others on PC, but they were NOT like modern FPS games. Goldeneye is, just with bad graphics and shitty controls. But it still was the father of every shooter that exists today, which, obviously, is the most popular video game genre period. Forget most influential N64 game, it might legitimately be the most influential game PERIOD, at least in regards to the industry and how it has developed.
I agree with you mostly except you can't say goldeneye didn't revolutionize any games it proved that shooter games could work on consoles and was THE console shooter game until Halo
@@noahraymon9486 Am I missing something? It's Majora vs Ocarina vs SM64 in the final right? You know SM64 has no chance, so it's just Zelda vs. Zelda, which is disappointing.
Yep. OOT will beat SM64 and OOT already beat MM once, so they cant just say that MM is suddenly better when it already lost to OOT in the beginning... so OOT has to win again.
I like the argument of which game would be more accessible to a child, but then I think of tide pods and I realize why crappy mobile games are so popular with kids and that most kids probably wouldnt even know how to operate a nintendo 64, let alone understand the game mechanics for either of these games ha ha.
I was being sarcastic and trying to go for laughs buddy. I'm pretty sure any kids watching this channel have the sense enough to play older video games. Also, I never said I wasn't a dumb kid.
I used to love OoT, but I truly don't understand the love for it now. I compare it to the Iliad and the Odyssey. OoT is a great children's story (like Odyssey), but Majora's Mask was infinitely better as a narrative overall (like Iliad). Comparing the three games that are here, Banjo wins 100% of the time for me. I can't even believe it was close. I'm with you, Jirard. OoT gets a lot of nostalgia love, but it didn't age well at all.
I don't agree with the nostalgia argument. I did not play all the way through OoT until I had the 3DS version. I didn't experience the horrors of the Water Temple torment with the boots but the overall game is still very fun to play. You gain as many connections with characters in OoT as you do in MM yet these characters are actually integral to saving the world. The Sages are all characters that you previously bonded with as a child. Zelda disguising herself as Shiek to help you through the adventure, the dungeon designs, many of the races either by redesign (Zoras) or first to be introduced all come back to OoT. A lot of the strengths of MM are also in OoT, yet I don't think a lot of the strengths of OoT are in MM (dungeon design being up there). In the end, I feel it depends on what storytelling you prefer. MM is more of a drama. OoT is the Hero's Journey.
i think you are 100% wrong in every way shape and form. ocarina is still an amazing game. maybe not to you but to me it is. i can still play it now and have fun with it. i have played it so many times that its not as fun as it was. but it is still an amazing game. it was an amazing game and still is. its not nostalgia and im annoyed that people keep saying it. it is a great game and its totally understandable why it was close and why it won. also it being the most revolutionary games ever for its genre. its hard to argue against it. we would not have the games we do today if it was not for ocarina. thats a fact. it introduced so many concepts that all action adventure games to this day use.
@@PlayPodOG Jesus christ man, take a long, deep breath and explain why you feel this way. You are allowed to have an opinion, as do I, as does everyone . However, publicly sharing your strong opinions online without any evidence supporting them is a kinda silly thing to do. Especially when you have the ability to easily give evidence using WORDS that you can write down and edit to make sure that you are making yourself clear; The exact thing that I have just done.
Surprise, surprise. Jirard is the only member of NormalBoots who fully experienced what Banjo has to offer. If you sat me down with any of the games on this bracket and asked which one I’d want to play, I’d pick Banjo every day of the week.
Why do people always put OoT at the top for best games all time. I love Ocarina don't get me wrong but I think people need to take their Nostalgia Glasses off and be more critical. Check out Egoraptor's Sequelitis on it.
@@blainedew6672 its an amazing game. It revolutionized the action adventure genre as a whole. There was nothing like it. People say its over rated now because of how many 3d action adventure games there are. But non of them would exist. Atleast the way they do. If it wasnt for ocarina. It set the standard for 3d action adventure.
honestly, out of the two finalist, mario 64 is the most overrated. It started to get outdated once banjo kazooie came out not even a full year later and then even more when rare kept upgrading the genre and control. And that's only if we talk about on the n64. I mean you know it's bad when a shitty ds port of a 3d platformer is better than the original
LOSTLEAD8R Banjo Kazooie is an amazing game with tons of memorable music and fun levels, but Ocarina of Time was and still is the perfect adventure game. Plot twists, amazing music, emotional story telling, and memorable gameplay from start to finish.
So glad you touched on the sound. I played OoT again the first time since I got my GCN, but the sound design blew me away, it's probably my favorite sound + music for a game ever. (Aside from games from my favorite franchises, like Star Wars)
I think Jared's back and forth (or open-minded) way of taking the discussion really makes his point resonate more between everyone else. He brings up a game as if it is the underdog (not wanting to exclude it from the conversation) making the others want to play devil's advocate, resulting in everyone getting more on board with the idea. I believe this has given Jared a lot of control when his most favored game is in the minority. He tries to stay unbiased, but in the end, he is always most partial to the game he likes most. Also the phrase "Best N64 game" has been a useful tool in shifting the discussion. He understands what it means to him, but the term is still too broad to be universally understood. I do not believe Jared is doing any of this on purpose, but I have seen him having a lot of control over the discussion across this season.
![HIWWHEE | OHM [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OJJLtTLqLag/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how Jirard looks like he's about to lose a child in every episode.
Xavier Alvarez BRO WHY IS THAT SO DAMN TRUE
It makes me happy
Hes very passionate for sure. 😂
Well, he lost a child in this one.
Wow your right he looks like hes from saw being timed to pull a knife out of his *ANUS*
Two great games and Goldeneye.
DidYouKnowGaming? Loooool
Nice.
well i mean. you're not wrong
Brutal
Goldeneye is the best game on n64 what u smoking
Me and Shane are on the same wavelength
I'm still upset that Paper Mario didn't win, lmao
LuigiBro14 same haha. I was so bitter when it essentially lost to the Call of Duty of the 90's haha
Same here. Still don’t know why they went with Goldeneye instead of Perfect Dark, which is objectively an upgrade. Neither are even close to Paper Mario, though.
I dont know if it was the same for this bracket but fan votes on twitter are what choose the games that appear
y'know,i feel like paper mario would have been closer to winning this round than goldeneye in their eyes
I prefer Golden Eye, but I was still upset because they all though paper Mario was the better game, but golden eye won.
"When it comes to N64, the essence comes down to that multiplayer or single player adventure."
That's literally every game ever on every console ever. It's either a multiplayer game or a single player game, that'd be the "essence" of every console then.
No... It’s literally only two type of games
But n64 games werent graphic or music focused. Meaning the focus had to be in gameplay
And yet they talked about the games and not about how they got there, ie the music argument. You needed to mention that the music was recycled because without the previous games you wouldn’t have ocarina of time. Give the games merit for what it is and not just based on “I like the music” I didn’t think I’d say this because this little project was a good idea but it seems like just another top 10 by a random magazine.
@@Sweetrad what are you talking about the N64 was marked as the graphics powerhouse console
What logic says that N64 games weren't music focused? The LoZ game discussed here literally had 'Ocarina' in the title, and then Majora's Mask actually ended up expanding on the importance of music and had a ton more original compositions. Honestly, I'd postulate that Mario 64 and 'Banjo' 'Kazooie' lose a lot of their playability without the background tracks spurring you onward. There's a lot of walking from point A to point B in N64 games that could have been much more tedious to traverse without the sound and environmental design distracting you when you really think about it.
Ill never understand how Z targeting in Ocarina was bad. Never had issues with it. When I was younger.
It could be worse, a person could be named Arin Hanson and not understand how XYZ soace & Z-targetting works and call a game terrible because of it, which even a child can understand. Z-targetting always felt pretty good to me, even in OoT, mostly because casual combat is just mashing attack and jump-attack, and would be some of the worst 3D combat if you couldn't lock on.
I think Z-Targeting itself is fine but the camera could be kind of screwy still. Although I think I had more camera struggles in Twilight Princess (Wii version) than any of the 3D Zeldas that came before it.
Valanway I think Arin’s point was that the way z-targeting changed the camera, it meant that it created a divide between exploration and combat, which the 2D games always combined. BotW didn’t change the camera angle in the same way (ie no zoom in on link) when targeting and so combat feels much more integrated into exploration. Also, Nintendo didn’t account for the extra axis when considering some of the enemies, so keese are stupidly annoying to kill and take a disproportionately long time to deal with. It’s not really that Nintendo did it poorly, they just could’ve done better. Arin even says that the targeting makes combat complicated as a compliment. Whatever you personally feel about whether the mechanics work well, I think it’s a misrepresentation of Arin’s argument to say he thought z-targeting was bad, more he thought they handled it badly, or at least they could’ve done better.
The game would be worse without the z targeting. But the z targeting could be better
Because it seperated combat from exploration; making combat complex. However, they didn't make the enemies complex. Therefore, making the combat sluggish and uninteresting. It never felt natural throughout the entire game.
Eeh. The game would have been worse without z-targeting. Besides, the worst part about Oot was the puzzle design.
I still don't understand how Conker's Bad Fur Day didn't make the bracket.
Randomized
Because it was audience voted, and nobody voted for it. :(
What about kirby and the crystal shards. Best kirby game ever. You can combine powers, become fireworks to blow up enemies, use Nes' PK thunder, and you can even have a Darth Maul lightsaber. How is this not the best n64 game of all time.
If they had also added Perfect Dark and Banjo-Tooie along with Conker's Bad Fur Day and Kirby 64, then their bracket would've been even on both sides. Hopefully it worked out like that in an alternate universe.
It's just sad to see another N64 comparison series come down to Mario VS Zelda. This series was, in essence, supposed to be randomized so this was less likely to happen. Not that Mario and Zelda aren't good games, they just get Top 2 almost every time.
Banjo-Kazooie unfortunately has the deck stacked against it in this episode. I wish more people on the panel played it. BUT, I will give it to PBG and Jared they are showing the game respect instead of outright dismissing it.
VGSquirrel banjo kazooi was fun, but I personally enjoyed banjo tooie a lot more. Just being able to grab ledges.....i was so happy lol
I definitely liked Tooie more when I was younger but I think Kazooie is overall a tighter experience. There was wayyyy too much backtracking in Tooie. I need to go back and play through Tooie again though. It's been a long time since I have done that. But YES grabbing ledges was a godsend lol.
@@vgsquirrel *cough cough* Grunty Industries *cough cough* fuck that level. In all seriousness the sole reason I did not 100%Banjo Tooie was that sky level and not knowing where the fuck to go.
Except for the fact that it’s infinitely better than goldeneye lmao
Josh Heckman Banjo Kazooie I enjoyed more than Banjo Tooie
Lets be honest, Ocarina was always gonna win this round.
22:12 Ocarina always wins.
Ehh I'd argue Banjo holds up better and can make for a more enjoyable experience. Goldeneye is simply not a good game and the only reason it got this far was nostalgia
Not nostalgia but the fact it is a precursor. FPS simply wasn't possible on console before goldeneye. Games like Halo, Call of Duty and many more owe this game a lot. But it hasn't aged well like Banjo has.
@@TheMajorStranger that is true but even then Perfect Dark is a superior game
TheMajorStranger
You also have to remember this is best n64 game not best modern game. For the time, Goldeneye was an amazing game, it’s just not good anymore because of how much shooters have evolved and how poorly the graphics and controls have aged
I kind of wish the premise was more well defined at the start of this, and I hope that they clarify in future seasons. To me the "Best N64 game" is just the "best game on the N64", not "the game that is most iconically N64". For 90s cartoons I'm hoping that they clarify this, do they mean the most watchable, highest-quality show, or do they mean the most "90s feeling" cartoon. Because right now the hosts feel like they're arguing to different ends.
The problem with that is then we would know immediately who would win. Its garsh darn obvious Majouras mask is objectivley the best game on the console
Honestly i feel like 90% of the time they are talking about which is the better game first and then they swap too which is the better n64 game. Like in the future i just want it to be the best game on X console or X TV show. It just feels like they using mental gymnastics just too justify why X game is better for the n64 overall or whatever even if they don't necessarily agree with their own statements lol. Still love the show but it gets a little annoying sometimes.
@@neonrocks2084 I think they wanted to set up playability and level of fun as the main means. "Best" is too painfully objective of a term.
I agree. It seems to bounce around, and the arguments they've made in previous episodes are backed by a different sight of "best N64 game". I understand looking at it from a perspective of what the game did for the console, but personally I think it would be more consistent and interesting for them to discuss the best game in light of it's design. Ocarina is so fondly renowned, and I feel like that's carrying it through this tournament. It was a fun game, and sentimental experience, but I feel that this should've been Banjo vs Paper Mario vs Star Fox 64. They're arguably the most consistent in cohesive, well-designed game-play. Setting Paper Mario aside as it's more of a story-driven game, the simple yet solid game-play is what drives the player through Banjo and Star Fox
When you ask “what’s the best N64 game”, that’s not a black and white question. When you say they should pick the game with the best gameplay, that’s a black and white answer.
I’m hoping for Banjo to win this round, but with 2 people basically not playing it and Furst openly saying he doesn’t like it, and considering its going against Ocarina, i see no hope for it
Croutonking65 I wish
Oh well, the whole point of the show is to talk about games, and if half the people haven't played the game then there isn't much they can talk about.
"Best part of the game was when you weren't playing with it" classic
So close for me, but Banjo edges out Ocarina just because every inch of that game is designed to be explored, with unique secrets or items and collectables. Banjo is just so simply yet expertly crafted and tightly designed. And while Ocarina is brilliant and does have those jaw dropping moments, great set pieces and moments to really explore, it also has things like Hyrule Field, the Desert trek, even something like the lead in to Zora's domain that feel like filler and make them hurdles to get to the next fun moment. Banjo just keeps giving and entertaining pretty much non-stop consistently through the entire adventure.
but the problem with games like banjo is that, yeah you can find collectibles everywhere, but how useful are they. outside of trying to get 100% completion they are not worth as much as it is in ocarina. when you find a secret in a game like ocarina it feels bigger cause its harder to get to and you can most likely use it. it being a heart piece an item or to a lesser degree rupees. having shit everywhere for people to find doesn't make it better to find things. its quality over quantity. do you want to collect a bunch of small progression items and some that don't matter or get big items that change the game in bigger ways.
I disagree, hyrule field is supposed to be open for 2 reasons, first, its the first truly open area you experience as young link after only one dungeon so you are enticed to explore it and thats when you meet with the giant peahats, and grottos, but to avoid having the player losing focus of the quest that's when night comes and stalchildren come out making it a dangerous place, forcing you to seek shelter and second reason, when you are an adult you need big open area to hunt for poes (which you are pretty much guaranteed to find naturally when you first get epona)
the lead in to zora's domain is filled with stuff, magic beans vendor, a piece of heart which you need to bring a cucko with you so you are more careful in your exploring, the frogs, the shortcut to lost woods and again, when you are adult link you see the results of planting magic beans which help you during the biggoron sword fetch quest
At the desert.....it's a desert wouldn't make much sense to have it filled with npcs and houses (plus you do get the flags, the longshot sandpit and the ghost guide) and it's pretty much a 15 minute section between a "town" and a temple (which you can later warp to, avoiding the whole place)
@@PlayPodOG most of banjo kazooie's collectables are important and enjoyable to gather. Keep in mind to even beat the final boss you need 94 of 100 jiggies in the game. Most of banjo' s kazooies collectables revolve around gathering jiggies including the mumbo tokens, jinjos, and other smaller collectibles. The big exception being the honeycombs which are similar to the heart pieces in OOT. Basically what I'm trying to say is most of banjo kazooie's collectibles share a huge purpose outside of 100% completion.
Oh, you died with 98 notes? Too bad: you have to redo the entire level to get all the notes again...
That's also true, I think more I just meant there's more of a sense of every single area of each level had so much care and specific necessity put into it rather than it's simply more to do if that makes sense? I'm also very back and forth between the two though, and also super agree Ocarina's discoveries are certainly more impactful and overall it definitely does have more of a puzzle emphasis- just I appreciate how Banjo has just absolutely no filler because it's so simple (which I guess could long run be a major con against it too).
At least it's the last time when they're gonna talk about "multiplayer importance"
RIP Paper Mario
the thought for jirard to include "or whoever they may be" after boy or girl was so incredibly heartwarming in a way I could never articulate. small comments like that are so insignificant and unnoticeable to the majority and that's cool, but is so important beyond words to the people he's talking to. just thank him so much, thank you for including it. enjoying the heck out of this series. love how everyone can be so objective when it's the point of it all, while still including things very personal. would take strength I could never muster p:
We all knew this was coming, the finalists were inevitable.
I wonder what the finalists would be if Mario 64 was swapped with Banjo for the early brackets.
They didn't have to be. Majora's Mask should've been in the winner's bracket. And I also feel that as amazing as sm64 is, Banjo is better.
Yes, I whole-heartedly agree.
Nwish425 And boring as hell to boot
Idk man, it's close between Ocarina and Banjo. Idk prob banjo for me
Nah
It’s original on many aspects
@Hoodini2571 I second that!
They are both must plays tbh. Those and SM64.
Jayce Cherry Yeah def
We got the most predictible final, but i'm not even mad, its truly between those two genre defining excellent games. Mario vs Zelda
just realized the video must be 'liked' to improve the chances of seeing more content like this. Great video as always fellas (going back to like prior videos in hopes this continues.)
Wow, I can’t believe it’s gonna come down to Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. Who would have thought this would happen? Surely, nobody could have foreseen such a twist! It’s just unbelievable! I’m speechless!
I look forward to seeing this series in my subs more than anything right now. Good work guys!
Well look what the final match is
Ocarina will win
Who would have guessed?
Wow, you guys, way to spoil the outcome. Hey, you guys, I'm a three-year-old whose parents are totally internet illiterate, and I totally could've never ever in my life guessed this would be the end of the bracket. You guys, think about the unborn fetuses that want to watch the series from the comfort of their own womb. God! Can't believe you would spoil that without thinking of the glimmers in the eyes of future fathers, who totally wouldn't guess it outright.
TheNCSmaster Don’t tell me what to do.
Dragon Orb Mario 64 is better why? Because the game is atleast fun to play and that's why it won
Wow Mario 64 vs. OoT?! Who would have thought??? This bracket should have just been those 2 games at the start.
Perfect Dark is better than Goldeneye
It is.. Golden Eye is one of most overacted games of all time 0_0
That's nothing against Goldeneye. It was made by the same company. Perfect Dark was the spiritual successor and shows how much could be done with the framework Goldeneye set up.
Perfect Dark is better technically, but I had more fun with GoldenEye back in the day.
Perfect Dark came out at the twilight of the n64 when the GameCube was already slated for release. There's a reason almost nobody remembers it but everyone knows Goldeneye
Goldeneye started it, Perfect Dark perfected it (appropriately enough).
It's fair to have Goldeneye on the list because it was certainly more impactful and ubiquitous, but I agree -- Perfect Dark is the rare game that improves on its predecessor in virtually every single way. It's my favorite multiplayer shooter to this day.
Can someone list the songs that play in the background? The description only gives the artists.
The song at 10:24 is soooo fire
Am I the only one who really like the N64 controller?
Benoit Levesque no sir you are not. I think it is the best controller of that generation.
Besides the stick wear, yes in spades
And here I always thought I was the only one who liked it.
Yes
Well no but I don't like it
I'm really glad you like the band Home, I loved hearing Tides at 16:50 and Hold your breath at 17:45
I feel that Ocarina was guaranteed this round, now if Majora was in this round we would have had a better debate on mechanics. But also if the brackets were different it would have changed the outcome drastically. Like what if Mario 64 and Ocarina were in the same side of the bracket? What would be in the final round? Mario 64 or Ocarina vs. Smash or Goldeneye? they should have seperated Majora and Ocarina at least
I may be wrong but I thought they said the bracket was randomly generated
@@tjt8502 sounds about right.
The best way to figure out which game on the N64 is the best is to give someone who never played a N64 these games and then ask him which was the best
Thats where i step in
"Banjo is better than Zelda in just about every way"
"Yeah, but its Zelda, though"
"Fair point, vote Zelda"
Aaargh.
"omg these guys are insane, they pick goldeneye over paper mario wtf, you suc"
"omg mario 64 vs ocarina, you're so predictable ppl wtf, you suc"
SM64 vs OOT. That's going to be interesting.
It'll be a weird one, because SM64 is more fun to just pick up and play, but OoT is arguably a better game to play all in one go. I think it depends on personal preference. There's a reason they've got 96% and 97% (respectively) on GameRankings.
Honestly, it's a lot like arguing Odyssey vs. BotW
Personally, I think the reason so many people think OOT is the greatest game ever is because of the spectacle. Seriously, you have to look on the ceiling and Ghoma is there, you see Volvagia fly out of the volcano, and who could forget the awesome final boss? You run up the spiral staircase, the organ getting louder and louder, and then you fight Ganondorf at the top of the tower, then the castle crumbles, and you fight Ganon, only his silhouette is visible, there's thunder, and the epic music...
Basically, the game is pretty good, but it has practically unbeatable awesome moments.
7:45 Speak for yourselves, my "PC master race" days began in DOS.
I'm sure somebody else has pointed this out already, but Turok came out a half year before Goldeneye.
And Quake World year earlier..
and i think turok (mostly 2 and 3) is better then golden eye. its just not as big as golden eye was
Ok, but I had all of those games and they sucked. Goldeneye 4 lyfe boiii
@@chadd990 turok was great. Especially 2 and 3
@Hey Guys, This Is My New Name
It is your opinion "boiii". But from people who really have broad experience with shooters anything on console is a joke (at least until Modern Warfare where trench between platforms mostly ended).
Jirard is on to something. As much as I love and admire Ocarina and what it's brought to the table for future Zeldas and games, there are far more games on the n64 that I love more so...
Let it die
No, I refuse to believe that OAT beat banjo kazooie
I knew going into this that Ocarina was going to win, but Banjo-Kazooie is still my favorite game of all time.
I’m gonna be hurt if Banjo loses, but it probably will. I’m calling Ocarina.
Edit: Of fucking course.
I find it funny that I understand all these episodes more than my dad, who was a HUGE gamer teen when the 64 came out. XD
just because a game has good multiplayer doesn't make it better, the biggest question is, can you play that same multiplayer by yourself and still have just as much fun against computer players? not everyone can have friends over when they want to play a video game, just because it uses the 4 player aspect of the n64, what will you enjoy when no one else is around?
Ssj Ichigo goldeneye didn't have bots. That was perfect dark. I have a lot of older cousins so I remember having way more fun with goldeneye than the other two.
Yeah, the discussion about it's influence first person shooters was pretty crucial. Paved the way for games like Halo, CoD, and Socom for a bit. Red Faction too.
My brothers and I still play Golden Eye. We'll get together and drunkenly play the game with friends. Lowest kills sits, second lowest picks the next level weapons etc. We love it and now with kids they are playing it and starting to whoop up on us. It's a simple game that can still be fun and is less spastic than new shooters. I like the anticipation or the fear of running into someone Golden Eye had. In today's shooters everyone just runs around fast and it's so crazy. No one would do that in real live and I feel Bond is a better representation, which is sad.
Yes! I remember setting up a game in multiplayer by myself just to explore the maps, input cheats and have fun. So it still was a lot of fun even without playing with other people LOL but that was probably just me not sure if anyone else would do that. 😂
"I have no friends so I hate multiplayer games"
is how you sound.
I'm sorry you were robbed of your childhood ... and/or just too young to experience the n64 in the first place. Trust me bro, if you had an n64, you would have friends to play it with. And that goldeneye experience is top notch.
How did I know this tournament would end up being Super Mario 64 vs Ocarina Of Time
I have an anormous amount of respect and admiration for Jirard, but...while Ocarina is getting praise, everyone seems to jump on the bandwagon of Majora being the better game out of the two. Sure, Majora was dark and its' characters were great - it was an emotional game. But...don't forget that Ocarina of Time did have moments like that too. Go watch Yungtown's videos of Ocarina of Time (Sub2Yungtown). Ocarina literally has an epic story where a slogan like "Time To Grow Up" could fit the game to a T. How many times haven't you been taken seriously as a kid, getting patronized? How many times have you felt a bit insecure, doubting yourself? In Ocarina of Time, Links faces some pretty dickish comments from NPCs just because he is a kid, but he soldiers through it all. He rises to the occasion - despite being a child. And when you pull out the Mastersword and become Adult Link...it's just so iconic. Link and YOU, the player, have time and time again shown fortitude and bravery when it was needed - despite being a kid, you took the mantle of an adult and put the legwork in, and it felt like when you became Adult Link for the first time, it was a testament to your unyielding courage, determination and growth as a character. It attested that you, in facing the tribulations in trying to rid the world of Ganondorf, had grown up.
Majora's Mask is an incredible game, make no mistake. But in my eyes, Ocarina was better.
EDIT: Spelling.
I just thought some of the story elements of OoT were more trope and cliche than MM
That is a very good argument for Ocarina, but I have an issue with it. I feel like if Ocarina really took that approach, they could have made an even more iconic videogame than they did. However, they did not take that approach because of 1 thing. Link is still a mute. If Link is supposed to represent the player, he has to show emotion to something, otherwise he just feels like a lifeless cardboard cutout that nobody relates to, which is exactly the case. Wind Waker in my personal opinion had the perfect emotional expressions for Link, and it would have been brilliant if they could have implemented that sort of character for Link in Ocarina.
This can be said for Majora's Mask as well, but the focus of that game isn't Link, the focus is everybody else. And everybody else in Majora's Mask feels alive and complete. Link is very much a side character in that game, not the destined hero. I think this point makes Majora's Mask feel much more special and unique than Ocarina of Time in the long run, and it's definitely the game I go back to play more frequently.
That's an interesting point of discussion. I see the transition from child to adult Link not as a reward for what you had to become as a child, but rather as a catalyst for making a man out of you.
From the start of the game up to retrieving the Master Sword, you were on a fun adventure as a child, exploring and doing light hearted quests for people with minor troubles. Granted, the first dungeon was to stop an evil monster from poisoning and killing the Deku Tree, but none of it felt like it was too serious. You have fun helping people, playing games, sneaking around a castle, and are going to beat the big bad guy!
But then what happens? You get the Master Sword and get trapped for 7 years. When you return to Hyrule, you are forced to see the actual devastation that Ganondorf caused while you were away. Hyrule Castle has become an evil fortress in a beautiful land that has become desolate. The people from Castle Town are either dead or moved to Kakariko Village. Goron City is empty, its inhabitants eaten or captured. Zora's Domain is empty, their deity missing (or dead), their king and the waters that define the Zora frozen. Your childhood home overrun by monsters.
By becoming an adult, you are thrust into a world where there are real problems; the life you've known as a child is gone. That's when reality sets in and you realize you are the only hope for this world. You have so much responsibility dumped on your back, you have no choice but to find the courage to push forward. In my opinion, this is when the game teaches you that you have to grow up.
Honestly I would argue that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are separate but equal. Ocarina of Time delivers such a fundamental, timeless fantasy adventure that anyone can enjoy the tale but is especially useful for what it can teach children. Majora's Mask has lessons that anyone can learn from; it's a more emotional, intimate tale that teaches rather deep concepts in a more artistic way. Both beautiful, but in different ways.
I always thought Majora was more profound when I was young, but the older I get, the more I appreciate Ocarina's story. It may be simple and built directly on familiar archetypes, but it delivers powerful themes of growing up and saying goodbye that strike my heart quite a bit deeper than Majora does these days.
I've been playing Ocarina regularly for most of my life, but recently its end credits brought me to tears. The elation of Hyrule celebrating Ganon's defeat, juxtaposed with Mido and King Zora mourning their personal losses as the sages look over the world before departing for the last time -- and of course Link and Navi saying goodbye -- are some of the most emotional scenes I've ever experienced in any media.
Link doesn't talk, but he isn't a mute. And...well, they left a lot to the imagination to the player, since he's supposed to be a link between the two. Undoubtedly you've heard that story before.
I think T. rexExpert01 brings up some valid points, read his comment.
At the end of the day, a lot of people seem to prefer Majora's Mask and here's the thing - that is ABSOLUTELY fine. What I don't like, is how a lot of those people seem to disregard Ocarina of Time, dubbing those who like it "blinded by nostalgia" which is only said to diminish fans' opinions of Ocarina it seems like, which is sad commentary on their part.
"I just get frustrated because Ocarina's always at the top"
I feel like that's not a legitimate reason to argue against it
And also the fact they always voted majoras
Poor Banjo, you'll always be a treasure in my library.
Banjos music and sound effects are on another level
Banjo's first half holds up better than Ocarina but the second half really suffers a lot from 90s game design. It's too janky and slippery for you to lose an hour of progress by misinput. Ocarina remains a great modern game because it plays around the N64's limitations a bunch better, and is still an incredibly designed puzzle game to boot. The combat is passable, but that's ok because they did it better later on and the fights are still pretty fun.
I like this series, I've always wanted to do something similar and make a show about it, so props up to these guys making it happen 😁
The further this series goes, the more outspoken Shane becomes.
And I love it.
I hope his momentum keeps up into the 90's Cartoons brackets.
Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with Jirard preferring Banjo. I think it's a completely valid opinion. What's frustrating is how he wants Ocarina to lose simply because everyone talks about it. I get it, but I feel like he's almost holding a grudge against the game. You can't fault Ocarina for everyone who says it's the "best game ever" if that's not what you believe. Vote against Ocarina if you truly believe another game is better, objectively or subjectively, but don't say you'd vote for "anything" just because you don't want to see Ocarina win. I feel like that's terribly unfair.
Goldeneye sucks because I can’t look at the box art without seeing James Bond’s right hand as part of his mouth
Now we have Zelda VS Mario. This is gonna be a tough final.
Well, I'll be first to admit to this, Ocarina and Mario 64 are indeed the most synonymous to the N64, no other game can beat those two at that.
Quest 64, bro.
Imagine how tough this matchup would have been if paper Mario had beat goldeneye
I don’t understand why Jirard has such a burning hate toward Ocarina of Time. If the only reason that he doesn’t like it is because people talk about how good it is, then that’s ludicrous. He constantly talks about what makes a good N64 game, but to say that he doesn’t want OoT to win just because people love it, then I’m sorry Jirard, but your arguments are completely moot.
Overexposure and constant overrating can sour a person's perspective and love or appreciation of a product, especially games and movies. I personally do the same thing with OoT and Final Fantasy 7. Both games I know for a fact have slightly-older and younger siblings that are far better in design and visuals, but don't get all the praise because they weren't released in that point of a lot of people's childhood where nostalgia is strongest, and with both games being the first of their kind of their series; 3D games with an emphasis on the graphics. I also got sick of seeing it, without fail, even in ultra casual lists, in top 10 lists, where I always felt it was placed way to high, considering the advancement in their own franchises and genres
It's more that at this point people don't actually analyses the game and just put it on top without thinking about it. It just stagnate any conversation about it, makes it boring and impossible to gain new perspective/information out of it.
@@Valanway That's a shower thought I had a while back: I wanna see somebody do "Top 7fast7furious Supernintendo 64cube U games" lists, except with the caveat that OOT, Mario 64 and whatever else they feel is appropriate (gonna be subjective obvi) are left out because otherwise 70% of the list would just be echoing everyone else.
@@pickk90 Yeah, OoT is such a story driven game with puzzles but it's like they forgot about the puzzles in Banjo. Banjo's were more fun for me as a child. Zelda's puzzles were too difficult for me as a kid and then too easy for me as a grown teenager. There wasn't a time I went, "Oh yeah, great puzzle." But the situations with learning how to use Kazooie to find objects and how to interchange them for maximum gameplay really had me thinking on how to beat bosses or traverse the world. Cut scenes and storyline was way above Banjo. I think Zelda has more replayability but Banjo was more fun for me. I just hate that I had to ask my dad how to beat Queen Gouma (sp?).
Sorry but OOT didn’t get good until the 3D remake
The one thing I’d suggest for next season is defining criteria first, cause it’s hard to get if “best” N64 game means most well-crafted, or most significant. Constantly redefining means a lot of slowdown in the arguments so it’d just give more structure. That said, this is awesome and I’m down for the finals.
Banjo is so very fun to play through, but honestly Ocarina just leaves more for you to think about. Banjo’s got a more charming world, but Ocarina’s world is more in depth.
Tune in next season to hear ProJared say: "These are all great cartoons, but which is the best 90's cartoon?"
I realize that Ive agreed with Shane in all these videos
oniXlyl Same lol, he’s the voice of reason
Shane is a good
He’s easily the best at debating, he and Jirard most often have the best points as well
Agreed. Shane is very "to the point". I can't say he's the person that speaks the most, but the arguments that comes out of his mouth are heavy as hell. I tip my hat to you, Shane!
I think Golden Eye 007 is actually a larger reflection of the N64 than people think.
Graphics: 007 is the poster child of that era with it’s “ugly” polygon graphics, which the N64 and competitors are known for.
Controls: 007’s controls are a hodgepodge to make a working shooter on a console. The N64 controller is a crazy mix of buttons and joystick to make 3D environments playable. They both feel awkward, but they were overdesigned to the point of working and feeling memorable.
Multiplayer: A main feature of N64 was having 4-player gaming built in right away. 007 uses 4-player action so well that it’s mainly remembered just for that.
Companies Supporting the System: It’s obvious that Rareware played the largest role outside of Nintendo for making games for the system. Rareware were innovators with any genre they tackled around that time. What’s a game that innovated a genre and was one of the most popular Rare games? Golden Eye 007.
There’s only one thing that I think doesn’t agree with them mirroring each other. The N64 is KNOWN for being driven by it’s first party IPs. 007 doesn’t meet up with that by using the James Bond license...
I feel if Golden Eye 007 starred a Nintendo IP (like Donkey Kong or something) and not James Bond, it would literally be the best N64 game. The game and system would be symbolic representations of each other in every way.
golden eye graphics are like what jontron says in starcade number five "this game is featuring pixel chimp face"
Mario 64 vs Ocarina in the final. Glad to know this bracket has officially devolved into the oldest forum debate in Internet history. Tune in next week for the 90s cartoon bracket to devolve into Batman vs X-Men.
lol... 20 minutes of everyone pretending Ocarina isn't gonna win
As much as I would have liked Banjo Kazooie to make it further, no one can deny how iconic OOT was. Personally, I also did get more enjoyment out of OOT. Banjo Kazooie was a great game, and I will probably go back and play it many more times... But I still remember how annoyed I was going through the levels and realizing, "Cool, I got some weird rubber boots... Now I have to go back to a bunch of stages and find out where I needed them!" Obviously this did not only happen with the boots. (Flight, Running Shoes, etc). Ocarina of Time did make you go back for a little bit... but only for Gold Skultulas or for when you were an Adult and had different things to do in the area.
Ocarina of time
I will die on this hill, Banjo is my favorite N64 game. I knew it wasn’t gonna make it, but you hate to see it go.
Should have been Majora's Mask instead of Ocarina in this round.
Yep
shut up about that. its all subjective. ocarina 100% deserves to be in the spot it is in right now. im so annoyed of the butt hurt majora fans.
@@PlayPodOG I'm not a morjora fan, I like each game equally. But you're saying it's subjective, then immediately saying after that it 100% deserves to be there. Don't contradict yourself.
@@kayamoosic thought the same thing lmao
me saying it deserves it doesn't mean my opinion is valued over someone elses. im just saying that the spot was well deserved. majora also 100% deserves the spot as well. it doesn't mean it should have won. it just means it deserves it. there is a clear difference
it's disappointing to see the "ocarina shouldn't win because ocarina always wins" and I agree with PBG, the "problem" with ocarina's combat can be easily fixed by using the items AKA the things you spend the whole game searching for; deku nuts aren't just for jokes and bombs aren't just for blasting walls
Yeah... Goldeneye was never going to win this.
Never should've won anything tbf
The only reason Goldeneye's multiplayer was so well loved in the 90s is because there were literally no other 4-player console shooters back then. It had zero competition. Not hard to be the star pupil when you're the only one showing up to class.
Banjo-Kazooie is the pinnacle of 3D platformers. There have been several better Zelda games and much better shooters since Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye. There are only perhaps 1 or 2 3D platformers better than Banjo-Kazooie since then.
but banjo wasn't as revolutionary. it did what it did very very well but it didn't impact the industry the same way. mario 64 is usually looked at as an example of 3d platforming origins. banjo expanded on that and made the collectathon genre but not a lot of companies have made those types of games and thats why its hard to find games better then it. but i would argue that jak and daxter, the original 3 spyro games. and a hat in time (more like mario then banjo but it still counts) are better. but its all subjective
You're absolutely right. But one of those 2 better games was Tooie. It's kind of a bummer that no one voted that game onto the list.
What do you think are better 3D platformers than Banjo-Kazooie? BK was my absolute favorite game for like 15 years, but now I'd say Tooie, Psychonauts and Odyssey have it beat. I've heard great things about A Hat in Time, but haven't played it yet. Yooka-Laylee was a disappointment though.
just 3d platformers. all jak games. hat in time. mario galaxy and odyssey . spyro. those are the only ones i can think of right now. and it is subjective. i understand people will value different games above others and it makes sense. but there are some just straight facts you have to look at as well
Are y'all gonna do a PS1 version of this? The whole time Jirard was talking about Banjo I couldn't stop myself from thinking, "Spyro did all that and more."
Majora's Mask could beat all of these imo
I am here whit you completionist! Zelda is my favorite Franchise, but Banjo has a special love in my heart and childhood memory. I remenber playing both games, and feel like Zelda was a more dark , mysterious and challenger game. Banjo in other hand was so much fun all the time, the characters, the voice lines, the music, the worlds we have to explore, was all so unique and beautiful.
It was a tough one, but we all know GoldenEye was the real winner :V
I wish Jontron had a seat in this debate.
We all do, and we all know he would have voted for Banjo
No pretty sure he has stated that ocarina of time is his favorite video game of all time
@@snitchez1176 when? I remember him saying that Banjo was his favorite game.
@@ProXYOneCreations I'm pretty sure he would've gone with Ocarina as well.
It was on a James and mike Monday episode and they were playing smash 64
So next is gonna be super Mario 64 VS Ocarina of time man this really is madness
Just going to say this....
Ocarina of Time is overrated
#TeamBanjo
Ive never played Banjo, but I agree with the idea that Ocarina is kinda overrated. Dont get me wrong, it's a good game but...you kinda get tired hearing about it all the time
@@fab.912 right? I always hear how "it's the best game of all time", like... how? I love the game, but one of the best of all time? So damn overrated
Still amazed Goldeneye made it into the competition.
Everybody knows Perfect Dark was better!
Ocarina is great, but Banjo was robbed.
nah i think ocarina deserved its spot . i wouldn't be upset either way. as long as goldeneye didn't win it made sense
@@PlayPodOG I agree. Goldeneye was revolutionary but it has aged as well as a 20-year-old piece of lunchmeat
For as much as I love Ocarina and it's importance, I kindda feel like Banjo is slightly more polished, anyone agree?
As some one who didn't play Goldeneye growing up, the game is completely shit to me now lol Its aged so poorly and aside from nostalgia there's no reason to play it lol And, it really didn't revolutionize any games. You can say it founded multiplayer shooters on console, but first person shooters existed before.
I like lines
Well, lol, I think it was super fun for, lol, it's time, idk lol XD
I 100% agree
And Quake World, the first true online multiplayer shooter come out year earlier.
Just because you don't understand that it revolutionized things doesn't mean that it didn't. Before games like Goldeneye a lot of the people who like games now didn't even like video games. They saw them as too immature or too simple, wrong or not, doesn't matter because that's what they thought. "DOOM" did indeed exist, and so did others on PC, but they were NOT like modern FPS games. Goldeneye is, just with bad graphics and shitty controls. But it still was the father of every shooter that exists today, which, obviously, is the most popular video game genre period. Forget most influential N64 game, it might legitimately be the most influential game PERIOD, at least in regards to the industry and how it has developed.
I agree with you mostly except you can't say goldeneye didn't revolutionize any games it proved that shooter games could work on consoles and was THE console shooter game until Halo
Thanks for another fun chat!
Of course it's Zelda vs Zelda in the finals :/
Ummm.....
@@noahraymon9486 Am I missing something? It's Majora vs Ocarina vs SM64 in the final right? You know SM64 has no chance, so it's just Zelda vs. Zelda, which is disappointing.
Yep. OOT will beat SM64 and OOT already beat MM once, so they cant just say that MM is suddenly better when it already lost to OOT in the beginning... so OOT has to win again.
@@stephenmcdonald1648 Exactly my thoughts, I'm with Jirard
William Campbell what? The final is OOT versus Super Mario 64. Why are you saying anything about Majora? It already lost.
I kinda want to see this kind of discussion but JUST debating Zelda BotW vs Mario Odyssey
I like the argument of which game would be more accessible to a child, but then I think of tide pods and I realize why crappy mobile games are so popular with kids and that most kids probably wouldnt even know how to operate a nintendo 64, let alone understand the game mechanics for either of these games ha ha.
"Kids are dumb today but I wasn't"
Ok buddy
give children more respect dude, you probably played the system when you were a child
I was being sarcastic and trying to go for laughs buddy. I'm pretty sure any kids watching this channel have the sense enough to play older video games. Also, I never said I wasn't a dumb kid.
I think it’s interesting how Jared is the only one that will engage the camera, like he’s trying to get us on his side.
I used to love OoT, but I truly don't understand the love for it now. I compare it to the Iliad and the Odyssey. OoT is a great children's story (like Odyssey), but Majora's Mask was infinitely better as a narrative overall (like Iliad). Comparing the three games that are here, Banjo wins 100% of the time for me. I can't even believe it was close. I'm with you, Jirard. OoT gets a lot of nostalgia love, but it didn't age well at all.
I don't agree with the nostalgia argument. I did not play all the way through OoT until I had the 3DS version. I didn't experience the horrors of the Water Temple torment with the boots but the overall game is still very fun to play. You gain as many connections with characters in OoT as you do in MM yet these characters are actually integral to saving the world. The Sages are all characters that you previously bonded with as a child. Zelda disguising herself as Shiek to help you through the adventure, the dungeon designs, many of the races either by redesign (Zoras) or first to be introduced all come back to OoT. A lot of the strengths of MM are also in OoT, yet I don't think a lot of the strengths of OoT are in MM (dungeon design being up there).
In the end, I feel it depends on what storytelling you prefer. MM is more of a drama. OoT is the Hero's Journey.
i think you are 100% wrong in every way shape and form. ocarina is still an amazing game. maybe not to you but to me it is. i can still play it now and have fun with it. i have played it so many times that its not as fun as it was. but it is still an amazing game. it was an amazing game and still is. its not nostalgia and im annoyed that people keep saying it. it is a great game and its totally understandable why it was close and why it won. also it being the most revolutionary games ever for its genre. its hard to argue against it. we would not have the games we do today if it was not for ocarina. thats a fact. it introduced so many concepts that all action adventure games to this day use.
@@PlayPodOG Jesus christ man, take a long, deep breath and explain why you feel this way. You are allowed to have an opinion, as do I, as does everyone . However, publicly sharing your strong opinions online without any evidence supporting them is a kinda silly thing to do. Especially when you have the ability to easily give evidence using WORDS that you can write down and edit to make sure that you are making yourself clear; The exact thing that I have just done.
@@blainedew6672 i did explain myself.....
@@PlayPodOG Alright. Sure.
Surprise, surprise. Jirard is the only member of NormalBoots who fully experienced what Banjo has to offer.
If you sat me down with any of the games on this bracket and asked which one I’d want to play, I’d pick Banjo every day of the week.
Why do people always put OoT at the top for best games all time. I love Ocarina don't get me wrong but I think people need to take their Nostalgia Glasses off and be more critical. Check out Egoraptor's Sequelitis on it.
Of course that's what the finale matchup would be. How could it be any different? We all saw it coming from the beginning
perfect dark should be up there instead of goldeneye
Shane is my hero in this debate
Ocarina overrated
no its not....caveman
@@PlayPodOG Explain yourself.
Ocarina was great at the time, I grew up with the 3Ds remake and enjoyed a lot. But we can all agree that the best Zelda game is Spirit Tracks
@@blainedew6672 its an amazing game. It revolutionized the action adventure genre as a whole. There was nothing like it. People say its over rated now because of how many 3d action adventure games there are. But non of them would exist. Atleast the way they do. If it wasnt for ocarina. It set the standard for 3d action adventure.
honestly, out of the two finalist, mario 64 is the most overrated. It started to get outdated once banjo kazooie came out not even a full year later and then even more when rare kept upgrading the genre and control. And that's only if we talk about on the n64. I mean you know it's bad when a shitty ds port of a 3d platformer is better than the original
Holy hell people know about Karamel Kel?! So glad his music is getting recognition!
thank god Ocarina won
agreed
LOSTLEAD8R Banjo Kazooie is an amazing game with tons of memorable music and fun levels, but Ocarina of Time was and still is the perfect adventure game. Plot twists, amazing music, emotional story telling, and memorable gameplay from start to finish.
So glad you touched on the sound. I played OoT again the first time since I got my GCN, but the sound design blew me away, it's probably my favorite sound + music for a game ever. (Aside from games from my favorite franchises, like Star Wars)
Ocarina of Time isn't even the best Zelda game on the N64
I think Jared's back and forth (or open-minded) way of taking the discussion really makes his point resonate more between everyone else. He brings up a game as if it is the underdog (not wanting to exclude it from the conversation) making the others want to play devil's advocate, resulting in everyone getting more on board with the idea. I believe this has given Jared a lot of control when his most favored game is in the minority. He tries to stay unbiased, but in the end, he is always most partial to the game he likes most.
Also the phrase "Best N64 game" has been a useful tool in shifting the discussion. He understands what it means to him, but the term is still too broad to be universally understood. I do not believe Jared is doing any of this on purpose, but I have seen him having a lot of control over the discussion across this season.
Zelda is my favorite series but to me ocarina might be the worst one here
well..to me..you are an idiot
@@PlayPodOG You're saying these kinds of things alot. Yet, you have still not clarified your statements.
I knew it was going to come down to OOT and SM64. It always does in debates like this.
Undertale is easily the best
Undertale wasnt on the n64, also it is a great game, but I wouldnt consider it the best game ever.
Jack Abramsohn Undertale isn’t the best game ever it’s the best n64 game
Damn! I wanted it to be Super Mario 64 vs Banjo-Kazooie! Both games are similar enough to compare to each other.