Master Shock Upgrade For A Luxurious Ride
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- I replace the stock air shock on my Master with a coil shock to make for the most car like experience that I've ever had on an EUC.
The 291r Coil+Oil Shock can be ordered here: amzn.to/3UEj5YN
Select the 190mm and 1000-lb version
Alternatives that should work (but I have not tried):
amzn.to/3AgOZT8
amzn.to/3E7kO1H
amzn.to/3galKdF
Time Index:
00:00 Introduction
02:59 Disassembling the Master
07:40 Removing the stock shock
12:11 Preparing the new coil shock
13:09 Modifying the Master to accept the new shock
15:09 Adding a foam pad
15:50 Installing the new shock
19:05 The results
21:15 Test ride
28:20 Conclusion
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Use the Chapter links in the Description to jump to the parts of the video that interest you most.
Thanks for watching ✊
Your content is fantastic, the slight suggestion I might make to increase your audience is to up you're tempo a little. Playback on x2 is closer to regular content, but I suspect some won't use this feature and lose interest, but you do you.
@@MaxInNewZealand Thanks. This is my style so it is what it is 🙂
Feeling inept... looking for links to the shock. Thanks for making the vid. Looking forward to no knock and luxury!
@@blandhoke Good luck. I think any of the coil shocks will give the smooth ride you (and I) want 🙂
What is the size for.the coil shock?
Two comments regarding taking it apart.
First. You do not need to take the handle off the get the seat off. Just pop the handle to its highest position, and then you can easily wiggle the rubber seat off the handle.
Second. To get the suspension off.
release the pressure. Then shut the rebound screw in all the way. Then press the wheel down just a few cm to compress the shock a bit. Reales the pressure again. Due to the second chamber, there will always be some pressure left, but with the rebound totally closed, the shock will stay compressed those few mm you need to take it out easy peasy.
If the long bolt is stuck anyway (because you forgot the rebound trick), just put light pressure on the long bolt at the same time as you "screw" it out. There is no threads on it, but it will slide out easy if it is rotated while you press.
Just some tips from a technician who also have a Master ;)
EUCzero
Fantastic tips. Thanks much 👍👊
Coil shocks are said to have better small bump sensitivity. There is less stiction. The weight of the spring needs to be correctly chosen for rider weight and use case. It can’t just be compared to other wheel systems without being optimised. Set up the sag also, as far as you can.
Love these upgrade videos Marty! Keep up the great work! I ordered one for my master.
Thanks Marty. I just ordered the Master and I will try it out. I got a shock through your link. Thanks again. One suggestion is to show the result at the beginning so that your viewers will be motivated to watch the installation instructions. ☺️
When are you going to join one of our group rides? 🙂
@@ElectricUnicycles thanks Marty! I can finally ride at a decent speed 35-40mph so next im going to figure out how to get time to ride with you guys! 😁
Looks like an amazing cushy ride 😊
Thanks. Ordered. Excited to try it out.
The money I've spent on suspension tools and upgrades for this wheel is mounting fast lol
Great update 👍
Seems like a fair amount of work to make the swap but it is good to hear and see the success. I wonder if it would have been a good idea to try some graphite as a pivot point lube.
I still need to try and get a ride on a Master. It looks like a great wheel. I had a look around one but not had the opportunity to ride one.
The Master really is the ultimate sports car EUC. Hope you get a chance to try one eventually.
Amazing video, thanks! So question... you mention the 190mm shock - do you know if that's the same size that I'd use on the Begode T4?
They use the same shock on the Master Pro, EX30, and Master. I suspect it's the same on the T4 but can't confirm. Hopefully with a bit of Googling you can confirm.
Great video. Do you still ride your Master today? What versiom is it? Did you pick that version specifically? Have you done any waterproofing? Thanks!
Yes, I still have my Master. It's the very first version. I don't ride in the rain so no waterproofing needed for me.
Amusingly, I made a FB post on this very same EXA Form 291r as a potential upgrade for BG suspension wheels. This 291r is a recommended shock upgrade on a escoot I just recently acquired (Vsett 10+ for those curious) & looking at the specs, its seemed to me to be potentially viable for BG wheels.
FWIW the Vsett grp recommended spring rate is 1500lbs for under 70kgs & 1850lbs for those over which is a lot higher than yours. I thought it might be a escoot thing but then, its 2 shocks with similar spring rates. BTW differing spring rates can be said to be a compression damping adjustment of sorts.
Got a T4 incoming so if the stock shock isnt up to my satisfaction, this 291r will be the way to go. I was pondering the on the install so your vid is mucho appreciated. Thanks for the vid Marty
I suspect the 1500-lb spring might be better. However, I'm not convinced that it would fit between the stock linkages. There is very little clearance with the 1000-lb spring and I believe the stiffer springs are larger (diameter).
I managed to fit a 1350lb spring in mine by using the spring for a 165mm shock. I don't have coil binding because the Master doesn't use the full stroke. I can bottom out on stair sets and bigger jumps too, but it's nice and comfy with snappy rebound that really eats up the chattery bumps!
@@redfoxdude can you share some links to the shock and spring? I'm riding in cold weather and need a coil vs air. Thx!!!
Awesome! Subbed, will try on mine, thx!
Hi! Got the same setup with coil for 1000 lb on my master but I faced an issue with it. You push your master on the video just by your hand and it bounce back but when I do so my master kinda stuck in lower position. I'm only able to bring it back up with my hands. So I loose about 2 cm of my suspension. Any ideas why is it going on? Even if I unscrew bolts I got the same result. Preload is the same position as yours. Thanks!
Great video as always. I’m currently trying to find a good off road wheel for trial riding and some medium sized jumps. Having a hard time choosing between the begode master and the KS s22pro. Any preferences between the two?
If you get a good one, the S22 is one of the best trail wheels. The slider implementation (even the latest) is the weak link with this wheel. The Master probably has the best track record but many people replace the shock (easy enough). At the end of the day either wheel will bring you joy so don't stress too much about making the wrong decision.
@@ElectricUnicycles thanks so much for you input. Really appreciate your response to my comment even on a 1yr old video. You do great work in the community and I hope to join you guys on a group ride when I get a bigger wheel than my 16x
Hey Marty, I’m going to be changing my shock on my Begode master pro V2 to this same coil shock. My question is if I should get the 1000lb or 1500lb? I weigh 235lbs. Thanks for any help you can give me!
I can't give a definitive answer. With the new Begode linkages (don't know if those are included in your Master Pro) the 1000-lb spring "should" be fine, but that's an educated guess on my part. I don't think the 1500lb spring would fit anyway (larger diameter won't fit between the linkages).
Great informative video as always Marty! 👍🏼 You can also use a DNM DV22-AR coil shock instead, so you won't need to grind anything at all 😆 Cheers! 🍻
Thanks. Yeah, that shock has been mentioned multiple times 👍 I think I'll try it with my Hero 🙂
Will be trying w mine, thx. 😃
Does this shock (DNN DV22-AR) install the same as the one Marty installed besides grinding? Is it said to be an equivalent or better upgrade as the one Marty installed?
Ok I just orderd one. Hope it works like the one on this vid. Apreciate the tips and easier fit advice.
@@pacochawa2746 Let me know how it works for you
I also find that having better shoes helps with shock absorption. I wear a pair of Kybuns which are Swiss made and cost $430-450 a pair. Best everyday boots I have every owned. I have 6 or 7 pairs. These shoes/boots take alot of knee shock and lower back and hip shock out of the equation.
subbed. I like a more indepth video and you got it!
Did you ever change Master Pro shock?
Thanks, Marty! Would you know if it is compatible with the Master V3?
Not with 100% certainty but I can't imagine why not. I put the same spring in my EX30 too. Should be compatible with all of their 190/200mm suspensions.
Cool! Thanks, Marty. We hold two major annual events here in Brasília, the capital of Brazil. I will send you the links via email. It will be a great pleasure to have you with us one day.
Hi Marty on your Master coil shock replacement what material did you use for your mud gaurd thx
A 3x8 inch strip of 1/8" leather
Wondering how do you dial the suspension in once it’s installed? Turning that nut looks impossible when the battery is back on
Yeah, it's not ideal. I use a large screwdriver and hammer to adjust the nut up or down the shock. Works but is a bit clumsy.
You make it look so easy. I replaced my shock arms this weekend (stock shock still in use) and the suspension is locked up tight. even after loosening all the bolts. Suggestions?
Oh wow. Unfortunately I don't. I hope you've arrived at a solution by now.
@@ElectricUnicycles As it turned out, it was the inserts that needed to be pressed out of the old arms and re-installed in the new ones. These were inexpensive replacements, not the all-inclusive (and expensive) Kuba arms.
Curious if you have tried the Kuba setup and how this compares.
I have not. I'm sure it'll be a big improvement.
Great video Marty. I’m only 160lbs. Do I still go with the 1000lbs option?
Absolutely
I bet this will work on the Master Pro.
The Master (not Pro) is the only sup-100-pound option that has 134 volts and suspension? Too bad it needs a bunch of mods to work well. But even with the extra work necessary, it's tempting. I'm not much of a trail rider, but the local secondary streets are often not well maintained.
Do you use this wheel still?
Marty does this shock work with the torque pads kobi? Suspension kit?
I see no reason why it would not. The coil shock is a drop in replacement for the stock shock.
Have you seen the new longer linkages from the guy in Italy? Gives almost triple the travel and allows for easy adjustments. Only 150 euros.
th-cam.com/video/QuktOE2RXl8/w-d-xo.html
Hi Marty, Im David, bought a master, and I picked up the kuba suspension plates I’m trying to figure out what shop to use that will work the best and what spring rate to add to the shock I was thinking of 1000 pounds wondering what you thought. Thanks.
From my understanding, with the new Begode linkages or the Kuba linkages the shock strength can be reduced. I don't "know" yet because I haven't installed the new linkages (I will) but probably 1000-pounds would be the maximum.
Kuba links won't work with a coil spring setup, only air (no room).
Quick question. Do you have to discharge the battery before you unplug the connection between the battery and the mother board?
No
Doctor PD
you mean discharge de capacitors?
you dont have to since you still have front battery packs connected.
Hi Marty thanks for the tip. It's probably relatively meaningless in the whole scheme of things but I'm able to take my entire seat off the top without taking apart the trolley handle. It just slips up over the trolley handle with a little bit of finagling.
Hey Mike. Actually that's great to know. I'll be doing another upgrade soon so one last think to take off :-)
One more question, Marty, please. I weigh 75 kg (something like 78 to 80 kg with safety equipment and backpack). I like soft suspension (I have an S22 Pro with a 750 lb spring that I really like) and my use is very similar to what you showed in the video, between off-road and city. Apparently, we have very similar tastes. Would you still advise the 291r - 1000-lb version? Thank you for your help!
I'm still a fan of the shock I used in this video and installed it in my EX30 too (see related video)
Thanks!
How much do you weigh? I'm 185 and trying to decide between the 1000 lb or 1500 lb coil.
I hear MasPro shock setup is similar... should i give it a shot?
Can't say for sure but I'm getting my MP in a few days so I'll know then.
Small suggestion.... @13:09 modifying the shock instead for a better fit, as opposed to the modifying the Master. that way it remains untouched.
Yes, but not a lot since I'm always getting newer wheels. But every time I get on it I enjoy the ride. Still happy with the shock that I put on it.
Will this mod work for the master pro with a higher load spring (like say 1500lbs)?
I believe that both wheels use the same shock. However, from my personal experience the stock shock on the Master Pro feels like the coil shock that I installed on my Master. This is why, as of early 2023, I'm not making any changes to my Master Pro shock - feels great as-is. But you absolutely should be able to install a coil shock on the Master Pro.
However, be aware that the 1500-pound shock coil will not fit between the linkages (the spring is too thick). People have told me that they bought a 1500-pound spring for a 165mm shock and then the spring fits because it's a shorter spring.
@@ElectricUnicycles Thanks Marty. If it doesn't feel any different, Im not sure the effort would be worth it. Good thing you said that, I had it in my cart and it wouldnt have fit!
Someone needs to teach Kingsong have to make an suspension!!! 🤬🤬🤬
I mentioned the DNM shock before. Everything fit with the 190mm shock and 95mm 1500lbs spring, but the setup felt bad to me....😪. Theres too much sag when you get on and it still felt too soft. Im going back to the stock shock and 350 psi....😭😭
Thanks for the feedback. Even with preloading the spring you had too much sag? I'm able to preload my spring for about 1/3rd sag when I step on the wheel.
Sorry it didn't work out for you.
@@ElectricUnicycles After more testing I am starting to come around... I wish I was in CA to have you test it and compare to your spring. I did pre load it more and that seems to have helped. The weather's been bad in oregon so I haven't been out to any trails. I was doing speedbumps and small stairs today and it felt great. I might have been comparing it too closely to the air shock which has practically no sag and really pushes itself "open" at high PSI, riding at "top out" position almost. This feels way different to that. it does fit though if you feel like trying it! 😂 You have more experience with different setups than I do so it may be excellent and I just dont know any better. I think the sag scared me too much at first, but when I ride it over bumps and curbs it has been performing well. Im keeping it installed for now to do more testing!
@@CrunchyTire I'm glad that you gave it more time and maybe it'll work out. The thing to remember is that the coil shock will offer a much more subtle ride which I think includes more sag. So yeah, it feels very different than the air shock but hopefully more comfortable. Check out this video: th-cam.com/video/56cM7Ff5YUU/w-d-xo.html
@@ElectricUnicycles Thanks I'll check it out!
Hello again Marty. Searching throw all ur video about suspension upgrade again trying to find the best fit for my hero. Great stuff.. while going through all the comments, im interested in this convo between u guys. This is exactly what i wonder what i should order. So what the difference between 1000lb spring which u installed on ur master, and this gentleman here install the 1500lb spring? The 1500lb spring is softer ? Or it the other way around?
Will this fit on a begode t4 as well?
Probably but I do not know for sure. If it uses a 190mm shock than the coil should fit.
Would this shock still be a good upgrade with the updated Begode linkage?
Absolutely. It's even better (zero bottom out). People have done it and I'm about to add the new linkages on mine.
@@ElectricUnicycles thank you sir!
@@michaellmcentire BTW, read the comments for an alternative (that I have not personally used but I know people who have) coil shock that fits without having to grind anything on the Master.
@@ElectricUnicycles I ended up doing one of the ones that required grinding of the bracket do to my lack of patience. What an upgrade! They really should have come this way.
Having such soft shocks that you can use up 2-3 cm of travel just by pushing it with your hands, must mean most of the travel is gone the second you step on the wheel? It also looked like you were having almost no travel left when you were riding it.. Maybe increase preload quite a bit?
It actually works for me (plenty of travel) but you can always increase the pre-load on yours.
BTW, I just added a bit more pre-load (two complete turns) to the spring and now it compresses ~1/3rd when I stand on the wheel, just about perfect for what you want.
Is the master the most exciting to own?
Exciting? Yeah, probably, if speed and acceleration is exciting to you 🙂
Would the same shock work on the hero? With the different geometry of the hero from the master would you go for a 750lbs spring?
I believe it will since the Hero also uses a 190mm shock. I'm going to also do this to my Hero but will stick with the 1000-lb spring. A bit of guesswork involved but I can change the spring later if need be.
@@ElectricUnicycles I got the 1000lb spring on the hero. Way too stiff and makes some very concerning noises going off curbs and stuff like it's hitting the frame. I'm about 80kg with my gear on
Somebody on the FB page/TH-cam put a 650lbs spring on his and seemed to like it.
I was happy with my dnm ao-38rc shock so might just stick with that for now until I've done some more research
Ta!
@@christopherspencer63 Which coil shock did you put on the Hero? The same one I put on the Master in this video? I was about to order one for my Hero. Surprised to hear that it was stiffer than the stock shock.
@@ElectricUnicycles not sure if my other reply came through.
Yeah used the exa 291r shock with 1000lb spring.
A few people say the suspension geometry on the master is horrible so you need a very strong spring.
The hero has better geometry so you don't need such a strong spring.
The euc way of life guy had a 650lbs spring and seemed to like it
@@christopherspencer63 Thanks much for the update. I'll try the 650lb version. Yes, Begode just release a new linkage design for the Master which provides more range and thus needs a weaker spring. So if the Hero already had a better linkage design I guess it makes sense. Thanks.
🤙🏼 ⚡ 🤙🏼
I may have missed it but what weight coil did you purchase?
1000-lb
I'll update the Description. Thanks.
@@ElectricUnicycles Thank you, no binding issues between the linkage and the coil?
@@caseybretthauer9006 Zero binding
how much do you weight? just wanna do a comparison im 6'3 at 230 lbs
My riding weight right now is ~203-lbs
With your weight, you are using the 1,000 lb spring. What spring strength would you recommend for a 140 lb. rider? Also, would the suspension mod be greatly improved even for a light 140 lbs. rider or do you think it is not worth it and just stick to the stock suspension?
he said its soft/comfy and bottomed it out a couple times. So maybe the same spring is good for your lighter weight and no bottoming out. Really depends on the terrain you ride, and the spring pound itself is not the only factor since its going into an EUC. Charts and recommendations will only get you so far, gotta do some testing. You can buy the shock with 1000lbs and then buy a couple extra springs to find your perfect settings. Thats what I would do (and I did lol. I have 3 springs coming from 750 to 1500) I got the DNM shock since you dont have to shave your master down lol
I think the 1000-lb spring would still be great for you. And the difference between this and the stock shock is substantial so if you want a very soft ride, do the upgrade.
Can you give me a link to the exact shock that you used. And the 1500-lb spring still fits between the linkages? Thanks.
@@ElectricUnicycles If you are talking to me its the DNM DV22-AR and it says "torch" on it. I have the shock but had to buy the spring from aliexpress so its not here yet. Based on my research the 1500 is the same width as the 1350 which people confirmed fit in the master with no modifications. I have not personally fit them yet. The spring will fit your shock too. The spring is sold from golfwheel store and is called "Taiwan EXA 290&291R and DNM DV-22&DV-22AR Scooter bicycle rear shock absorber special spring".
@@CrunchyTire Thank you. If it fits between the linkages and works, drop a comment here if you think about it ✊From my experience the stiffer springs are larger in diameter so I have my doubts. Waiting ... 🙂
Got a question - you seem to know more about the inner workings of these EUC, does the batteries auto balance themselves during charging?
Yes, they do. Each battery pack has its own BMS which manages the charging process.
@@ElectricUnicycles You bring up some good points. Do you know what the individual battery packs “S” rating is - home many cells in series, like 12S?
@@srqTagle The number of cells in series depends on the battery pack configuration and voltage. There are different versions for the Master. Can be 8 or 16 depending on the version.
@@ElectricUnicycles I see the 4 plugs for the 4 packs, are the balancing leads for the individual packs easy to get to?
@@srqTagle The battery pack connectors have three leads. The middle lead is the BMS signal wire.
Wouldn't it have been easier to file some material off the shock instead of the EUC?
You would have to grind 1/16th of material away from the shock. I doubt the shock material is much thicker than that. But try it.
Will the 1500 lbs version work and mount the same?
You'll probably have to add spacers to separate the side linkages a bit to allow the wider 1500-lb spring to fit.
@@ElectricUnicycles OK thank u.. I'm 225lbs..I need something better tgzb the stock.
Is there any reason the 1500 pound spring wouldn’t work?
The 1500-lb spring is too wide to fit between the "stock" linkages. If you modified the spacing on the linkages it might be possible.
@@ElectricUnicyclesdoes cranking up the preload on the spring make much of a difference in the firmness of the ride and bottoming out this shock? I do some fairly challenging single track riding and I’m just so fed up with the topping out and banging I’m happy to put on a shock that may bottom out slightly easier than dealing with the constant topping out and slamming of the suspension. Which I think is the Achilles’ heel of the master all the other things I can deal with except for that.
@@sherryandpeter Pre-load has zero affect on the firmness of the ride but does help to reduce the occurrence of bottoming out. You set the pre-load so that when you stand on the wheel the suspension compresses by ~1/3rd. This is what I've done.
The rebound control on my coil shock essentially eliminates topping out on my Master. It can still bottom out on big drops.
At the recent Apple Valley Speedway races I let various people try my Master. General consensus was that it was great and everyone said it rode like the Sherman S (which has a beautiful soft ride).
@@ElectricUnicycles Hey Marty thanks for taking the time to respond to all my questions! I’ve ordered a separate 1250 pound spring and a 1500 pound spring just to have some options and see what I can do with them. I will let you know how it goes. I should get them in the next couple weeks I think. 🤞
1000lbs out of stock
can buy 190mm 650lbs? I am weight around 70 to 80kg
I really wouldn't. I think 1000-lbs is as low as I'd want to go and I weight about the same as you
The alternative links that I provided are in stock
Okay noted. I think I have found a shop selling similar specs ready stock.
It is the 190mm correct?
Yes. 1000-lb 190mm
Im going to try the DNM dv22-ar since you can install it without any permanent modifications. Cheap shock but maybe with 1000-1500 pound spring it will be ok. Forum users have said its better than stock and its cheap so why not try it lol.
Hope it works for you
I've liked mine with a DV22-AR paired with 1350lb spring for a 165mm shock. Not sure bigger than 1000lb would fit the stock linkage, but the shorter spring gets around that issue.
@@redfoxdude How come you bought the 165? The configuration Im going for that is "tested" by people and working is the DV22-AR 190mm, with the 1500 spring from aliexpress made for this shock, using the stock linkage. There are pictures of this setup assembled and fitting.
@@CrunchyTire I bought it because the spring that came with my DV22-AR from Aliexpress didn't fit between the lower portion of the linkage. Maybe if I pre-loaded the heck out of it, it would clear, but it didn't fit for me.
@@redfoxdude oh ok, interesting. I guess I'll have to see for myself when the spring arrives. Thanks for the info. Maybe its a different spring or something. If you look at the thread called "master-suspension-modifications" on electric unicycle forums there are several people using a 190mm with upgraded spring and they said its "absolutely stunning" compared to other wheels lol. They link directly to the 190mm and the springs that allegedly works, which were made for these shocks.
pls guys lets push Linea and the peeps from leaperkim to make sherman S next batch higher voltage looks like the wheel is just dope.
as a sherman rider myself my only issue with the S is why stil 100V....... not getting higher voltage??????????
PLEASE LEAPERKIM MAKE THE S 134V... I wish they would give it more battery aswell but hey making the perfect wheel would be counterproductive just pls GIVE SHERMAN S HIGHER VOLTAGEEEEEEEEEEEEE and i will buy it
1:29 That's what she said.......🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I couldn't see any relative motion of the suspension or pedal-to ground distance in the relatively bump-free riding you filmed. Looks as if you were riding exclusively on the urethane bumper. The shock you spec is in no way sophisticated ( progressively wound spring or bi-directional damper adjustable) so it cannot be both super soft and resistant to bottoming-out. Sag-the percentage of total suspension travel used up by your static body weight should only be like 15 to 25% . This is a well-known parameter in the MTB world. The ease with which you could deflect the suspension with your arms indicates the spring rate and/or preload is way to low.
Thank you. Yes, I understand how shocks work and no, I am not riding exclusively on the urethane bumper :-) Specifically, my "upgrade" is for providing a soft and luxurious ride. It's not for meant for aggressive jumping and trail riding. YMMV.
There should be a better solution than that open cell foam
Wouldn't it have been more practical and easier to take the excess metal from the shock and not the wheel?
Remove 1/16" metal from the shock? I doubt the shock casing is that thick. But do whatever works for you.
Try it and let me know? I will order one too. I'm sure you can just return it if it is damaged