I get about 10% good rng the rest of the time I might as well set it to automatically delete things for this entire new season zero armor from the new season content which I have been farming trying to get something useful got a stat to 60… If they don’t return crafting, I doubt if I will ever play this game again it’s not worth the time. I do not want to play a game the treat it like a job. You need to spend eight hours a day to get the same results as the streamers who do then get off the game and play other shit , when I have time to maybe a couple hours here and there
the trouble is the dudes that lost all their money in Vegas, come home to play Destiny while their wife is out on a date with her boyfriends. these sad sacks need to pull the Destiny slot machine lever and get their god roll to feel anything. the game should be activity focused or masterworking focused. let people buildcraft rolls with a crafting system.
The Adept weapon system bungie introduced in the master Root of Nightmares raid imo is the best of both worlds. You still have to grind column 3 and 4 perk combos, but once you enhance them, you can then go to the enclave and switch out the barrel and mag. This way, you still have to grind, but it also respects the players' time and can still be sort of a loot protection. Imo this is just how weapons should work in general. Especially for the playlist weapons like bygones that has an ungodly amount of perks.
No, it isn't. Just getting the two perks you want can a fruitless endeavor. People need to disassociate how Bungie implement crafting from the concept of crafting in general.
Crafting vs "I'll play something else". I've been playing other stuff. Not out of anger, but out of apathy. I just don't care enough to log in and grind random rolls.
Add in the many bugs that disrupt the flow of the game (everytime I go to character menu and try to open the world map and it closes out I die a little inside) and the horrifically short (even shorter if you didn't get the lore audio for those fieldwork missions) story just makes me check out. I wanted the full story drop, but man theres no way Episode2 Act1 narritiveily is as long as Episode1 Act1 was
Especially since I have no way of knowing if that roll will be worth my time and effort in the next patch. Look at bygones it literally just got massacred
people will complain about crafting removing the grind and then complain about having to grind the same activity over and over to get a good weapon drop. crafting respects the player's time and gives them a guaranteed way to earn a reward while also giving the player choice of perks.
Absolutely no one complained about crafting but Bungie who wants to inflate playtime. If they got the attunement system right we wouldn't be having this conversation
@@kcisthe1stpeople did complain about it and even some clown made a video about how they should remove it and only listen to players that play this game as a job. Their main point was crafting is taking the grind away and giving them no reason to play
@@kcisthe1st where tf have you been? There were a lot of people complaining about weapon crafting and wanted to grind for the weapon rolls they wanted 😂 now that they got what they wanted, they’re bitching about wanting crafting back 🤦🏽♂️😂 make it make sense
If they don't want us to have crafting, then there needs to be an engram focusing system. Not having either is a huge step back and only exists to make the game more annoying to play. I understand RNG plays a big role on destiny. But you can't make progress and then regress and expect it to go over well, when people have seen how something could be better.
Whats funny is that we did have this with umbral engrams, I don’t understand why they didn’t bring a form of that back for seasonal weapons. People that don’t have enough time to play can get these engrams, have a chance at getting that specific weapon and boom! They might get lucky with doing the activity of choice where it drops there, so they can knock it off their list and focus another
The reason why I like crafting is because trying to get a dungeon weapon with a perk that you want is almost impossible. For example, I'm trying to get the new dungeon Auto rifle, and I just want it with jolting feedback, so I'm just wanting a 1/5. I have gotten over 70 of those autos to drop, and I've yet to get one with jolting feedback. I am not kidding. At this point it's just frustrating and I just quit. Even with being able to focus an auto rifle (at the chest) and have that weapon be guaranteed to drop, still doesn't help a specific perk or specific perk combo to drop. There either needs to be crafting or there needs to be ways where you can focus certain perks on a weapon
@@GeronimoPlaz The game has had to fire people twice in seasons with crafting, last season has had an average player count lower than this season. Crafting isn't doing anything for this games death or life, it's the content which has sucked for years
All I'm gonna say is that crafting respects my time 100x more than normal RNG farming. Do I want a direct path to get exactly what I want out of a weapon or spend 50-100+hrs in the same encounter just to settle for a 3/5 roll? The answer should be obvious. To this day I have yet to get a perfect roll on Matador. I spent 3 hours total over a weekend farming red borders in GoS and now have a perfect Prophet of Doom that is better than Matador could ever hope to be. What the hell are we even talking about. I'm convinced people that don't like crafting in Destiny have no respect for their own time. Keep hitting that slot machine guardian, you're definitely not a gambling addict. Smile.
Legitimately this. You can't be complaining about the game not respecting your time, and simultaneously want a system that doesn't respect your time. Like, what?
Especially on seasonal weapons. Like, I kind of understand the argument for not wanting raid or dungeon weapons or something that's supposed to stick around forever to be craftable, even if i disagree, but weapons whose sources only stick around for a few months to a year? Like, come on.
@@yourewrong9028 Yep. Seasonal weapons should always be craftable, but dungeon and raid gear should be taken out of that system. Why else would you want do the raid once you got the exotic and the patterns? It seems so backwards on the initial complaint about the seasonal weapons.
Just bringing this up because I know someone else will: _Oh but what about that satisfactory dopamine hit when you DO get that 6/5 God roll? That pure intoxicating satisfaction of high rolling?_
I farmed every single day for a spare rations when they first came out until they sunset them and best was a 3/5 that wasn’t even usable. Never had a good madator as well. Still no good eyeasluna, never had a 5/5 outside of crafting. The grind was so good in destiny 1 cause exotic drops were so rare and actually strong and the roll was static. That was the excitement. Not bs trash rolls just deleting over and over. How can you trust rng anyway after what they just got caught doing. Fuck all this for real.
1) Crafting beats the fuck outta whatever the hell Bungie wanted to do this season. 2) Tonics are ass. They ARE convoluted (not even your guide was good enough to flesh them out entirely), they are a worse version of the engram system we've always had. You got engrams from all activities, which you could then FOCUS for EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! Tonics are shit, and defending them is shill behavior. 3) The activities we got this season are below mid af. The stuff coming in Act 2 looks mid af. I am not excited for Act 3 either, based on what Bungo has fumbled out this season. Basically, everything we've gotten has been a shit sandwich and I am getting Lightfall levels of apathy again. Essentially, the game sucks...and don't even get me started on the INSANE amount of bugs.
That's a big point too, according to the FaQ in the frontier twab, no vault changes until behemoth, and it's not certain if any increase is happening in behemoth.
Give us more Vault Space then. Crafting is not healthy for the livelihood of the game. It removes the joy from the grind. Had Crafting been Bad Luck protection, then maybe the system would have been healthy, but as it stands Crafting does nothing but make the game more boring and more of a chore.
This isnt a debate. Crafting saved seasonal content. It's the best thing they ever implemented into the game. Anyone who thinks crafting is a bad thing should be institutionalized. Nobody wants to run the shitty seasonal activity for 3 months for the chance at a halfway decent roll on a weapon that will be irrelevenant as soon as the next season drops. Spending 90% of your time chasing loot rolls only to then immediately shelf those so you can farm the new seasonal weapons is a terrible gaming experience.
Personally I think there is a middle ground to be had here. RNG with with extended options for the first 2 parts of the Episode, red borders with part 3. That way if you haven't found a roll you have the option to get the crafted before the episode closes and into the next. That way both sides win, those who want to chase 5/5 or those who want to spend the mats on the crafted later. Crafting should be the fail back not the default and I'm say that as someone who lives the crafted life. Most seasons I've maxed the crafting in the first week or two there were available that just leads me to sharding everything for the rest of it.
If they removed the timer from the tonics and you could just swap them out as you needed that would be 10,000X better than what we have. Loathe the entire system.
I think for the Tonics, instead of it being on a timer, it should be how many activities you could do with the level of the Tonic. For example, the Uncommons last for 1 activity, the Rares for 2, and the and the Legendaries last for 3. That way, you can maximize the potential of these Tonics and can easily track how long it will last.
@@FlashesSoccer011 I don't mind the tonics. Only gripe is not having them auto activate. I should be able to just set a tonic and have it replenish the timer when it runs out.
The “loot chase” kills the game for me. I have a life now that I didn’t when I was younger and could avoid homework by grinding all day. I kinda would like to have a deterministic way of getting these weapons since luck, even for streamers, isn’t something worth betting on
We got lives outside of constantly playing D2, I hate having to playing over and over again in comparison to getting a craftable gun and choosing the rolls i want
I live on d2 and still have been looking for a envious arsenal chill clip and blinding sideways chill clip liturgy 6 weeks later. Tonics are popped almost always and I get more snipers/sidearms than gls
@@Reason7322 What? I ran GOS 150x for the farm on 1st and 2nd encounter, I got all up 6x reds and no G rolls.. What free loot? You like those Utubers who claim class items are free from Hallo event...
Then play another game? You do realize crafting has only been a part of D2 since Witch Queen right? Thats not that long. If a game is no longer fitting into your life style its not the game that has to change but you figuring out which games do. Like hlw many of us play MMOs now that we’re older? Probably a lot less. Why? Because we simply dont have the time to put into it. So then what, should every MMO now change its core target audience to the casual Dads just because I want to keep playing? No. You move on and find another game. For me? I dont need every weapon in D2. If I get it cool, If I dont? Oh well. Its not like my vault isnt filled with almost 700 different weapons of which I use like 10 anyways. Thats the issue. Everyone is falling victim to FOMO when we all knkw how often things get power crept anyways. You dont need every weapon. The easier you understand that the more enjoyable your time can be in Destiny. Fundamentally if a game is no longer fun? Just find one that is. I have fun mindlessly killing things in D2 with the occasional raids or GMs. I grind for weapons, sure but Im not going to get stressed just because I dont get it. If you cant out yourself in that mentality? Youre no longer playing the game, the game is playing you.
I go with crafting and the reason for that is because they load these weapons with so many damn perks nowadays that it's tedious trying to get the one you want. If all weapons had the double perk slot maybe it wouldn't be so bad
Crafting will always be better because I will play to unlock the frame of bad/mediocre weapon. I won't ever grind for a god roll of a bad weapon regardless of the number of drops.
The issue is once you've crafted the weapon, no future drop of that weapon can be better so it becomes pointless in the loot pool. There has to be a chance for a (very slightly) better version to drop otherwise there is no point to a looter game.
Destiny 2's biggest problem: Its community I remember pre-crafting they were like "WE NEED SOMETHING TO AVOID THIS RNG" then we got crafting and everyone was "THANK YOU BUNGIE THIS IS AWESOME" then 20 seconds later it was "WE NEED RNG BUNGIE, WE NEED MORE LOOTCHASE" then 30 seconds later, Bungie reduces the amount of craftable weapons and now it's a problem again hah
Real dude that’s why the game ain’t even fun no more. First sunsetting now we’re walking back great qol changes because some d1 fan boys can’t live past their nostalgia and want more reasons to flex. Like we get it bro you were on of the 1% who had gally in d1. Congrats want a cookie? Thing is tho you can still have rng loot rolls… just don’t craft weapons like tf idek why this is a debate or something bungie even needed to do.
Because the crafting they introduced is too powerfull. It shouldn't have let you make a perfect item. No future drop of that item can ever be better or exciting.
@@tomaszguzik9018 Question: Do you play Destiny for loot drops or do you play because you enjoy the content? Give us whats good NOW so we can enjoy the content not having to run the same content 100x for a chance to get what we want then getting sick of playing it then never running it again. content enjoyment over loot grinds because the game becomes only about loot grinds when we should be enjoying the content.
@@GeronimoPlaz dont play grindy games if u dont have time for them, or dont bitch when u dont get every single item in the game after 20 hours of playtime
There has to be a way to integrate one into the other more seamlessly… How about that ALL craftable weapons are unlocked for crafting the first time you pick it up, BUT you have to find the perks for the weapons for future crafting from obtaining weapons with the perks you’re looking for from random rolls?
@ that’s the thing make it some expensive piece from xur with limits per week, but it would make everyone question what perk they want to make craftable
"The tonic system is terrible for the gear chase" Cross: "look at the tonics we have for artifact perks and materials" He acts like we didn't have all of these things baked in as seasonal vendor upgrades in previous seasons 🙃
I'd be more on board with RNG if I could just change out my barrel, mag, and grip like they were mods on a gun. It's crazy that it's 2024 and we haven't figured that out yet. If I could take a gun like Hung Jury, put any sight, barrel, mag, or stock on it as long as I had the resources to do so, I'd be thrilled. All I need to focus on is the perk combo I want. And if the exotic class item proved anything is that STILL with just TWO perks to hunt for the RNG can be stingy af.
Gonna be honest, I didnt hate crafting I just felt nothing towards it, apathetic. Into the Light was the First time in a long time that I had gotten excited to get weapon drops, now this season is somewhat similar theres a few weapons I want and Ive been popping potions like crazy and I love it. I can do what I want when I want and still get the weapons Im chasing, maybe not the rolls but thats rng. Maybe the Timers could be a little longer but I dont think its a necessity overall I think potions are a great addition and Im glad its in the game. That and its always good to see Bungie doing new things, even if its something small like this.
I like Destiny. I need a reason to play. Loot RNG is not it. I have a goal with red borders and I feel good knowing I can do other things with my time. Can’t interact with the dungeon as much because onslaught doesn’t drop enough flakes to make it tonics worth it.
This game is 1000x better when you play with other people. You’re not even playing the whole game if you do everything solo. Why bother playing at all and why would anyone want to hear your opinion about this game if you only play a tiny portion of the game ?
This article’s author leaves out a crucial point (which applies to him so surprise he left it out): if he doesn’t like crafting and wants RNG drops, then don’t craft stuff and grind for it! There’s nothing stopping him from grinding even when crafting exists.
@@arkhammer4759 for that you need it to be possible for a drop to be better then a crafted weapon. Time invested in to grinding in a looter needs to have some pay off. Even if it'd be something as silly as +5 to a single stat or sth.
@@arkhammer4759 Added literally last season, you also don't understand why people who grind grind, they grind for better rolls and more damage not because they love grinding. They're not arguing for grinding over a love of grinding they're arguing for it to make loot more valuable and the game more fun to play. If you genuinely think making the weapons this season craftable would help the season in anyway then boy you're dumb, just look at last season, had crafting and had lower player averages than this season, and last season had a major expansion alongside it. The content sucks but you're too stupid to realize it, you want better content not a checklist that helps you forget you're playing a crappy game
As a casual tryhard, I can confidently say that grinding for rolls in Destiny is the worst part of the game. I don't have time to partake in activities I enjoy, explore the world, or get the desired rolls in time so that they're not outclassed by new ones. Every weapon in the game should be craftable. Either that, or they should institute a leveling system like CoD.
Paul Tassi, a man with 50 lifetime dungeon clears try to explain why farming for god rolls is better than crafing? Man has never farmed in his life gtfo
I like crafting for the convenience of changing rolls whenever I want to and it helps with weapon bloat in my vault. On the other hand having something to chase other than red borders is better for longevity in my opinion. Aka, that feeling you get when you finally get that that good roll lol
The problem is, we have a lot of options and even better ones, most people wont even bother going after guns with no redborders, i'am one, most people i know dont even bother doing the activities because you cant craft them.
IF we had Unlimited Vault Space, then yeah, RNG would be superior. But in a game where there's PVE & PVP and the meta is constantly changing, being able to craft whatever kind of roll you need at any given moment (without needing to hoard a bunch of different rolls of the same weapon, taking up a whole bunch of space), That is CLEARLY the Better Option. *side note: I REALLY wish the Ergo Sum & Exotic Class Items were able to have some kind of crafting component where maybe could pick from the perk combinations you've obtained. You have to select them with the exact perks that they dropped with, but you don't have to take up an absurd amount of your vault space
Man, I’ve wrote dissertations on the loot scarcity in Destiny. Bungie’s outright refusal to turn up the loot drop rates kills all motivation to sink any more time into the game. There is simply to many variables to getting a “god” roll to drop. The drop rates are so paltry that I’d rather lick sand in the Sahara. Truthfully the only reason people spend as much time as they do grinding for “god” rolls is because the game play is satisfying. Unfortunately for me, the satisfying game play loop is no longer appealing to me. Crafting was a swing so far in the other direction that I can see why people would want it back. Quite simply it’s a guarantee that if a person puts in the time they can get exactly what they want, which cannot be said without crafting. Seriously, the only time I enjoyed farming for loot was double loot drops from Nightfalls. Honestly, that system needs to be turned all for all activities 100% of the time. I’m not saying people need to get Adept loot for every activity, but any activity that drops its loot should be cranked up to 11. With all the variables, I don’t understand why Bungie is so averse to turning up the amount of loot people receive for activities. Want to solve the crafting issue, crank up the loot drop amount, pure and simple.
The answer is a bit of both like it was, I have not grinded a single of these after they removed crafting. The reason I love crating and " finishing" a grind, knowing that's done and behind me allows me to move on to something else. The feeling that I can always go back and craft a roll I want or need without having to grind for 100s of hours and still not getting the rolls I want.
NO! I love that I actually have a reason to grind now. Y’all don’t wanna play, absolutely nobody is forcing you to. Let those of us that like a grind have it back.
Tonics are fine, but they don't last long enough. And they should not expire DURING an activity (yes, I know you can reapply while in the activity, but that's annoying)
I mean the solution is simple. All seasonal weapons can be crafted, however you also have a shiny variant which cannot be crafted and can only drop as an RNG drop.
So you only play for crafting weapons?? What did you do after crafting the other episodes weapons? Did you you stop playing. Are craftable weapons the only good weapons in the game and you said I have all the "best" weapons this season so no reason to play anymore?
Genuinely felt that the reward tonics sucked ass. It felt like I never got the right weapon I was focusing for. I had one match where I never got a weapon until around wave 40 and it wasn’t even the weapon my tonic was focused on
Crafting takes less time. People complain that it ruins replayability. So? If anything, that’s a good thing. It forces Bungie to make better content that’s actually enjoyable to play so we have a reason to beyond hoping we strike gold with every single weapon in the game, and it requires players to spend less time on the game.
For me, with crafting, I would chase red borders even for weapons I wasn't excited for because of a "just in case" and you hold that pattern literally forever if you ever need it. Now because I'm forced to get a lot of RNG drops for weapon I don't care about and would rather ignore since I can't craft them, they dilute the drops for weapons I do want. So I feel less compelled to engage in the content when I only care about 1/4 of the drops or whatever.
Exactly! Sometimes I end up making a very specific build that needs a weapon with a very specific perk combo and a old seasonal weapon from a year ago will end up having it. Crafting majorly helps in keeping weapons in player's hands
@theremnants6807 yup. You're not gonna know to keep stuff like that a year in advance, or if you do keep a bunch of stuff because of the "just in case" you're quickly gonna fill up your vault
Maybe I'm just too casual now, but I don't have enough time to grind random rolls in endgame content, so those patterns were enough for me to play throughout the season. I'll still play, but I guess I'll just have to dedicate a little more time to seasonal activities. No worries.
Just making crafting more complex. Lean a little bit more towards warframe. Do something instead of just login in every week to get a red boarder. Then keep the shiny rolls. Why not do both. Also, get rid of the instant level up on the crafted rolls. I liked being able to level it up.
And when you do get one, watch it have awful options like explosive ordinance/proximity grenades and volatile/confined launch with a crappy reload MW. This is why crafting will be indefinitely better.
Craftable, I don't got time to farm like I did when I was 20. Rng has its place i guess. But crafting had me longing in every week. Now I don't. I don't care about shinies, to each their own, I just want something I can actually use
uh isnt that the same for getting your god roll or close to it? That's not a great take. There's plenty of reasons. Achievements being one of them, rewards attached to achievements, speed runs, low mans, bragging rights, sherpaing other new raiders. FOR FUN. God forbid that a raid or dungeon be actually fun enough to run just because its bloody fun. And don't even for a second tell me people don't do things just for fun over and over again otherwise Disney theme parks would have gone out of business a long time ago.
@@pituguli5816 go play warframe or first descendants because thats LITERALLY the same concept. you farm to get the best roll and use it in stronger content. raids aint enjoyable when you have done them several times over for both red borders and exotics. its called stale content and its precisely the reason seasonal content EXISTS........ You can enjoy older content but I can bet you dont run it weekly on every character and neither does the majority once they have what they want.
@@123TheCloop Ahh tisk tisk how wrong you are, I play all 3x chars since all 3x chars are at 2025 power level now. Funny all I did was ask a question and you reacted with "Go play warframe" How about no? How about I will play what I want to play? You never answered my question. Raids aren't enjoyable even with or without red boarders if you have to run them 100x.. I ran the loot farm for GOS and out of more than 150 runs I got 6x reds and no G rolls.. Imagine running it 500x to get the rolls on all the weps hahahahahahaaha. Get with the program, the player base is gone, stop with the gate keeping you aren't doing the game any favors.
The point of this franchise has been to GRIND. FOR. LOOT. If crafting is going to stay for seasonal guns red borders need to be rarer than Into the Light shiny weapons. And the CAN'T DROP FROM FOCUSING. Waiting till an act starts and playing vending machine simulator with stored up engrams is not it. That shit is boring and kills the achievement of collecting a 5/5.
The #1 thing for me about Tonics that makes them bad, is the fact that there is no indicator that you do or don't have a tonic(outside of the notification, which I may or may not ignore when stuff's going on, especially when I JUST put a tonic on and it notifies me it "expired" in 1 min). Could just be a tiny icon near your abilities and stuff. I've played long enough without Tonics that I don't even think about them unless I get loot that comes from it. Yeah, that's a me problem, but still. I've probably spent 5% or less of my time this season with a Tonic on, simply because I don't even think of it. I prefer crafting because I can choose to keep a weapon or delete it comfortably without worrying about losing the god roll because my vault is full. Sucks this season because of course I hoard a bunch of rolls, then sift thru them like I would any non crafted weapon. For Crafted weapons, I can get the pattern, then let it sit in the enclave waiting to be crafted when I decide it's worth crafting. I like the idea of getting multiple perk rolls per weapon to help skew the RNG in your favor and counter weightgate (until they fix that), especially when you do more challenging difficulty of whatever content drops it. The other aspect of it I like, with red borders, is at least there is an end goal to where I can not feel obligated to play the game so much that I can't enjoy other games. I am FULLY AWARE that some of these are just me problems, but nowadays every game wants your full attention just at the off chance you want to spend some money on their offerings, and it gets to be a pain to have to try and play every game just to keep up with stuff. Being able to craft gives me a clear defined goal, with some RNG on drop rate, but at least once I get it, I don't feel like I'm wasting a ton of time chasing the perfect roll just to be disappointed over and over. At least enhancement has bridged the gap of having the boosted crafting perks so you can keep those god rolls and have them comparable to crafting. I only played a bit during D2 launch then from season 21 onward, I can't imagine having played the other 20 seasons just grinding for rolls all the time... RNG sucks sometimes. I'm all for them dropping some god rolls thru Banshee or Xur more often, not always old weapons that have no origin traits that are mostly powercrept. Or maybe a new vendor?
FOMO is important. Shinys are perfect because it’s aesthetically pleasing, but if we knew shiny rolls would be attainable in the future the majority of us wouldn’t have gone nearly as hard in into the light
Biggest tonic system problem atm is "different" types of crafting materials for it. Leaving alone 4-5 that's not in game yet, at least one of them you forced to farm in one particular activity. You can't get weapon tonic's without farming over and over new onslaught. And it is indeed boring, almost hour long, activity.
The problem isn't the Volatile Tonics, for me it's the Enriching ones. I understand if you pop the tonic while playing other activities like Strike or PvP in order to still occassionally roll season weapons. My problem is that I specifically play Salvation Onslaught to roll the weapons in that loot pool. Then I drink the tonic in order to FOCUS a specific weapon in that loot pool, in my case Exuviae. I'll go through a whole 50 wave run, get around 10 or so weapons to drop and I'll be LUCKY if I get more than 1 Exuviae to drop that entire time. It feels like the tonic somehow does the opposite to what I want it to do. During Into the Light, if I attune to Blast Furnace and run a 50 wave Onslaught, I can rest assured I'll get at least 4 or 5 of that weapon to drop, not to mention the additional rolls I can get turning in Trophies of Bravery at Shaxx. If the tonics are supposed to increase the drop chance of specific weapons, I think they need to take a pass at it to make sure that's what it's doing and if needed increase the drop chance while under the effects of a tonic even MORE.
They way they should have implemented crafting should have been like this, say you get a decent roll not amazing, but then you can break other weapons down for lets call them perk nodes, you select the perk on the gun break it down and in exchange gives you a perk node of that perk, these new perk nodes can then be slotted into 1 per column and thats it, no reforging. So if you want the same gun you have to get another one, but if its perks are what you want you can enhance those perks with perk nodes too.
This is just the worst of both scenarios. This solves nothing. This is just a super shitty version of crafting that is still entirely reliant on RNG. It's easily the worst suggestion I have heard so far.
@@FlashesSoccer011 Then what's yours then, people complain about RNG, crafting, loot incentive there is no solution to the issue that people wouldn't whine about.
Main problem with random rolls nowadays is that almost all weapons have 1 PvP and 1 PvE god roll in most cases, there are just so many useless perks added on purpose just to be there
@@BakrisKills You b-raindead numpty, Bungo catered for hardcores where did that get us? Lowest player count in history of the game, abandon casuals you kill your game.
@@pituguli5816 nope. guess you dont like facts. ill give you one and you can do your research you parasite. In D-1 and in d-2 who kept the game afloat in in its worst periods? Do you wanna guess, do you wanna do your research you fkn newb. The hardcore. D-1 was trials hardcore and in d-2 it was us in COO.You causal F2P garbage cans want everything handed to you, cry about no raid with matchmaking ect, and then cant even do hard content. shut up pussi, you know nothing and just started playing. Your response reeks of "im entitled" because you bought a game. Go earn it like it was meant, crafting is junk and has watered down any identity a weapon has. go feed that parasite in your brain. I bet you cried and cried when you couldnt clear a day 1 because its not geared towards your causal tastes. How is Day 1 raids in contest the most pronounced release of a new expansion if the causal tards are what keep the game up. Man you are missing choromsomes
With Crafting vs RNG grind, I like both to a degree. With crafting, it’s nice having it for some activities but not all of them. It’s why it bums me out with the raids. You get all your red borders and, if you care enough to go after the title and armor, then you’re done. I have NO reason to run the raids again. I want to run them for more than just the sake of it, I think it’s why my group and I grinded Pantheon since it could drop the adept weapons. For RNG, it’s a mix of nostalgia and gives me more of a reason to jump back on D2 rather than just for the weekly reset. I like having a loot chase/grind to give me a goal for the activities and rewards. Now, I don’t like when it feels like the weapon I’m chasing just doesn’t want to drop or I get other weapons even with a focusing node with Zavala or the tonics. RNG grinding isn’t a bad thing per se but it needs some major refinement. The tonics are 50/50 for me. The tonics that buff the artifact? Love em, especially the stasis ones. The weapon, armor, and material tonics? Meh, doesn’t feel too great but it’s okay. I do think they could make it to where the tiers of the tonics(uncommon, rare, legendary, exotic) could behave differently between each other. An uncommon maybe drops a weapon or armor piece every few activities/rounds etc. and make the higher tier tonics drop something every 10 minutes or something. Oh, and remove the timer on the tonics man, that’s the most frustrating thing I have about them. Some only last for what? 15-20min? That’s terrible.
I think crafting spoiled the community tbh. I can speak from personal experience that I have spent HUNDREDS of hours farming GM's for 5/5 rolls on some adepts. Palindrome, hung jury, hothead to name a few. 2 of those 3 I have 5/5s for. When crafting got introduced, it was a better investment for my time. With enhanced perks, it is now a better option. 5 red borders=unlimited choices, better than base perks, and a gaurenteed 5/5. The red border drop rate appears to be about a 1 in 4 ish, so basically within 20 drops I can get the 5/5 roll. With this new found time on my hands, I can run older raids like VoG or KF that I want to run because I like them. Not because I'm after something to throw in the vault, but I can play because I love the game. This is why people prefer crafting. I don't think it's a spoon feeding thing, I think it's a time to do other stuff thing. Now, I do think crafting has made getting end game items FAR to easy and accessible so I would like to propose the following: in the spirit of business, there has to be a value proposition. Crafting can offer the "value" of convenience, and RNG can offer a stronger item. I think enhanced perks should be limited to non crafted items. It gives more value to RNG drops, because they are more rare than crafted items so they can be more powerful, but crafting exists in the meantime to ensure a slightly worse version of still a powerful roll can be in the hands of the players
Destiny lifers are so stupid they'd rather grind an activity they dont enjoy for weeks to get a gun they want only to stop playing from burn out instead of, crafting their gun and doing the things they find fun with it
@@rjherra9285 you realize most people don’t have that type of luck. I’ve farmed for hundreds of hours for each and never got a 5/5. Easy comment to make from someone so lucky.
The problem with the tonic system is your grinding for materials to then pop a tonic and go through another grind. The only way the tonic system could be good is if A) a tonic lasted a day or B) if you could influence the rolls or C) the drop rate wasn't ass. It's just a slightly convoluted system that doesn't feel worthwhile. At least crafting respected your time.
Had to pause about 1:45 in, to say - Paul Tassi is objectively wrong in a demonstrable manner with his claim - "You can pop one [a tonic] and run 50 waves of onslaught and get exactly one copy of the weapon you're focusing" Even with very bad luck, that's nigh impossible, and anyone can test this right now.
Solution: there is a toggle in the selection screen of the tonics in your inventory that automatically draws duplicates in your reserves until you run out of that specific tonic. Make 2-3 purples, and that's a full blown session where you make one selection in the screen.
As a person who works 5 to 6 days a week, 12 to 14-hour shifts away from home crafting makes getting the rolls i want a reasonable goal. I don't have a lot of time. Last season felt good. I was able to play for a few hours during the week. I or 2 more on my day off. I'm getting the rolls i want and making tangible progress. It's a seasonal weapon. Let the grind hards go for raids and dungeons. That's fine. Let the guy who enjoys the game but doesn't have the time for the endless loot chase have his seasonal weapons.
would you expect the same handout of loot in warframe or the first descendants then? because these have insane time sinks, sounds to me you just got far to complacent with a handout looting system and to be frank no looter shooter would cater to your lack of playtime, why? its called player time sink and its how these looters make money and have larger concurrent player counts. They have the game be designed in a way that has excessive time sinks so they stay in the game longer. you simply are not the games audience they want and thats being real not elitist
Shinies from into the light worked not only cause the were visually different and that got u exited the second u saw it. It was easy to identify. But also drops were more frequent as Tassy mentioned, right now the seasonal “shinies” are capped at the 30+ waves with only the chest drops having a chance at it(aledgedly). They need to increase the ways to focus this guns(either give a chance to ecounters to drop seasonal engrams that we can focus at Iedo, or increase the frequency of tonic weapon drops
I’ve grinded nearly 100 Mecharbe rolls, and 90% of them have been Air Trigger + Vorpal. I’m not joking or using hyperbole. Literally 90% of my rolls have been dukey. Crafting would have circumvented this.
So someone who gets paid to play destiny 2 is for the tonics. What a surprise. The weapon crafting was better especially after weight gate. Rng is bs and makes the grind twice as long. The tonics are terrible. Who wants to have to stop during an activity to reapply a tonic.
Most weapons now have 7-8 perks in each column (some even going up to 12) so at base thats a 1/14 to 1/16 chance at a 2/5 roll. That doesnt sound bad until you factor in armor bloated loot pools and the lack of focusing which turns that into a 1/56 to 1/112 for a basic 2/5 on most weapons, but can be significantly worse depending on the source of them. We need more double perks and selectable barrel/magazine options.
And realistically if you don't like weapon crafting that's fine and understandable but realistically it's at a point where playlist weapons are more valuable to grind for then seasonal weapons why because when you reset your rank it's a chance of it getting multiple traits in each column and by keeping on resetting you can also have the possibility of 3 in each sometimes 4 but realistically I don't get why that isn't the same for these seasonal weapons, trials, nightfalls, and dungeons and even some events such as this past event having no way of getting multiple traits in both columns
Only the people with 2000+ hours were the ones crying about crafting. They need RNG to make the game exciting for them. Not realizing they really just need to move on
Some thoughts on the Tonic System... Back in Into the light, I was positivly suprised about the loot grind for the godrolls of the weapons. I was able to attune a single weapon, and had mostly that weapon drop with a chance of a shiny roll with double perks, making it much more likely to get the roll I wanted. I therefore spend many, many hours playing the new mode to get the roll I wanted. And at some point, I got what I was looking for. Fast forward to today where I have to do activity, I have not interest in, only to get some material to craft a tonic, that barely increases the drop chance for the weapon I want to grind for. It feels like when I drink the tonic for Bitter/Sweet, I get 1 roll of that weapon out of 5 drops. In addition to that, **playing the Salvation Onslaught mode drops all weapons and armor instead of only the attuned weapon**. I have played about 20 hours of expert salvation onslaught and don´t have one, just one, roll of a weapon I care for, despite optimizing every run and all 150 hours since launch of revenant with the tonic of the weapon I want. This feels really shitty (like being trapped in a badly designed skinnner box) and like Bungie just wanted to increase the playtime by any means possible. I get that the crafting of the seasonal weapons made them less appealing to grind for, as you could just buy the red border once per week for the weapon you cared for. But this is not a worthwhile alternative. **TLDR:** If you take away the red border crafting system, at least make it easy to grind for the weapon you care for, maybe just use the attunement system with shiny rolls like in into the light. Just add the armor to the attunenent table and you have a way for the first time to target farm for a specific armor piece. If they then drop with good stats, it could be a viable and rewarding alternative to artifice armor farming.
Why not both? Crafting for convenience, cosmetics for grinding past crafting. Instead of grinding for rolls, you're grinding for clout, for big dick energy. You get red borders? Sure it's nice, but having a god roll shiny with a unique skin feels ball tingling in a good way.
I understand tonics fine but i loved crafting i wish it was cheaper though! Also being able to farm glimmer with tonics is nice so why not both? Also shiny is awsome but why not let us farm for the "shiny" ornament?
Crafting killed my love for the grind and from someone who was playing since 2019 D2 and a lil bit of the beta, I feel like grinding for it is better for the dopamine feeling, the rewarding feeling, crafting will defeat those feelings cuz you are set on a timed path, a predetermined path, whereas no crafting will set you on an adventure to get the roll you want. “WHAT MADE YALL FORGET THE GRIND, OR ARE YALL JUST NEW PLAYERS THAT ARE LAZY” that’s just imo tho, take it with a grain of salt
OH AND FOR THE COMPLAINERS, IF YOU NEVER PLAYED DESTINY 1 I WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY YOU LIKE CRAFTING BUT IF YOU DID, SHAME ON YOU. WE DIDNT HAVE THIS BACK IN THE DAY WHY SHOULD WE NOW
@@SujiOfficialD1 had considerably less perks, and ALL perks were significantly less impactful in D1. This is a horrible argument. For reference, you could put on the most dog balls, green auto and still be successful in TRIALS, RAIDS, whatever, with little to no impact on your playstyle.You cannot do that (to the same level) in D2.
@@crsdj0110 im sayin d1 never had crafting and earning your god roll weapons meant smth, doing it in a fixed sense just takes away the rewarding feeling, like I said, it’s all about the feeling of finally getting smth you wanted after the grind. Its childish to think getting any good feeling in a fixed way is rewarding as the other way around.
@@SujiOfficial Like I said, perks meant less. In D1 just getting THE GUN, was normally enough, you didn't need a 5/5. In D2 perks MATTER and on some they define whether on not is is USEABLE, let alone meta. Also, this game is not a gambming sim. If you want to play something that gives you a 'rush', go waste your life and money spamming packs on fifa or madden.
Also, what's 'childish' is thinking that a game revolves entirely around you and what you want. There is an easy way to make this work for everyone, and that's to make random rolls on cratftable guns enhanceable.
Potions are a scam. Bring back GUARANTEED 100% drop of the FOCUSED weapon like how the menagerie was. If I focus for a sniper or an auto rifle I only want the item I’m focusing for. Everything else that I’m not interested in at that very moment needs to excluded from the drop pool because it just feels like a disrespectful waste of my time.
Paul Tassi's takes and videos are dull. Crafting lets more players gear up to take on more challenging and different content faster than exhaustively farming one activity for X roll on Y weapon.
The issue with the tonics is that you have to remember to apply them. Last episode, the seasonal activity had the passive mechanic to simply collect radiolaria and you turned it in at the end for a literal ton of loot. With the tonic though you get one maybe two added drops during a round of onslaught which only gives you one weapon at the end of the activity. Three drops doesn't equate to the literal half dozen or more we got with breach executable.
I would like to put out there that I’ve gotten probably 6 or 7 shinies since the creation of shinies and all shinies that I’ve had have been completely DOG SHIT so crafting 100% wins for me.
The main reason I like crafting is that it allows you to essentially save a drop for later. In the sense that something that sucks now or you dont care for but might be good later can have its pattern pocketed to be crafted later down the line without having to go through increasingly obscure farming methods to get one. It lightens up on vault space letting you not hold on to gear you wont use by basically using crafting as a bank, and this is doubly better for seasonal weapons which are usually phased out in yearly expansions, rendering getting more of them difficult or even impossible after their regular acquisition methods get deprecated. For example if you missed out on the Eremite and want it, you have to HOPE that banshee sells it, if he even can as i've only seen a small handful of season of the witch weapons. I can sympathize with the idea of relieving the pressure of having to blow tons of deepsight harmonizers on some of these older weapons since craftable weapons aren't enhanceable, but being able to skip some of the strangest grinds with crafting is a big plus for it on seasonal weapons. IMO the way theyre handling seasonal weapons should be how raid weapons should have worked since Vow, but we can't undo the past of craftable weapons for every raid. I like enhancing weapons much more conceptually but crafting has saved me SO much vault space. There's also the issue where TONS of weapons are not enhanceable with very little justification for why they cant. Enhanceable weapons as a system started rolling out in season of the wish, but the reprised dreaming city weapons and warlords ruin weapons can't be enhanced even though they are from the same time period? What is the justification for the cutoff on ritual activity weapons not being enhanceable, i.e. why is blowout enhanceable but not out of bounds? How come I can't enhance my immortal or my buzzard? It feels like a lot of weapons are missing out by being arbitrarily denied access to enhancement and bungie hasn't said anything about being willing to let these weapons be enhanced retroactively like how you can enhance older versions of the FOTL weapons. I believe that bungie should work on letting literally any weapon with an origin trait get enhanced because it just seems really bad to leave so many weapons without it.
TLDR: I don’t hate tonics but they are pretty underwhelming and the system as a whole feels incomplete. The easiest way to explain my opinion is just to list out what I would change from the current system: -split current volatile tonics into artifact tonics and combat tonics -artifact tonics would ONLY boost artifact mods, with no secondary effects, max of one active at a time -every boost-able artifact mod would have corresponding uncommon (22 mins) and rare (44 mins) artifact tonics that only boost that mod -legendary (66 mins) artifact tonics would boost two mods, and there would be one for every possible pair of boost-able mods -combat tonics would give you buffs similar to the secondary effects volatiles have now, and there’d be more of them(ex: think of the “While devour is active, special ammo void weapons deal bonus damage” part of the weakening void tonics as its own tonic) -allow up to 4 combat tonics to be active at once -higher rarities have improved duration (22, 44, and 66 mins for uncommon, rare, and legendary respectively) and effect strength (each jump would be around a 3-5% improvement over the previous rarity) -loot targeting enriching tonics should be replaced with an onslaught style attunement screen that can be accessed from the tonic capsule, where attuning to an item is like crafting and drinking its corresponding tonic in one step, ingredients are still consumed for this -resource tonics for cores, prisms, raid banners, and ritual mementos should be added Bungie said “potion crafting system”, but I think what they meant was “pick two extra artifact mods for an hour” and “have some attunement options with extra steps”. So, my solution is to simplify and streamline attunement, expand the pairing options for those “two extra artifact mods” while separating them from extraneous effects, and expand those extraneous effects into a functional combat potion system.
Given how much I've been burned by bad RNG, crafting was the only way I could actually get the rolls I've wanted.
EXACTLY THIS
I get about 10% good rng the rest of the time I might as well set it to automatically delete things for this entire new season zero armor from the new season content which I have been farming trying to get something useful got a stat to 60…
If they don’t return crafting, I doubt if I will ever play this game again it’s not worth the time. I do not want to play a game the treat it like a job. You need to spend eight hours a day to get the same results as the streamers who do then get off the game and play other shit , when I have time to maybe a couple hours here and there
the trouble is the dudes that lost all their money in Vegas, come home to play Destiny while their wife is out on a date with her boyfriends. these sad sacks need to pull the Destiny slot machine lever and get their god roll to feel anything.
the game should be activity focused or masterworking focused. let people buildcraft rolls with a crafting system.
The Adept weapon system bungie introduced in the master Root of Nightmares raid imo is the best of both worlds. You still have to grind column 3 and 4 perk combos, but once you enhance them, you can then go to the enclave and switch out the barrel and mag. This way, you still have to grind, but it also respects the players' time and can still be sort of a loot protection. Imo this is just how weapons should work in general. Especially for the playlist weapons like bygones that has an ungodly amount of perks.
I’d love to be able to change barrel and mag on some of the shiny brave weapons I enhanced, or any of the random rolls that I’ve upgraded.
No, it isn't.
Just getting the two perks you want can a fruitless endeavor.
People need to disassociate how Bungie implement crafting from the concept of crafting in general.
10000% man. They solved the problem. We get the drop we want, and we go customize it at the enclave with our barrel and Mag of Choice
I have entirely no idea what your talking about.
Crafting vs "I'll play something else". I've been playing other stuff. Not out of anger, but out of apathy. I just don't care enough to log in and grind random rolls.
Add in the many bugs that disrupt the flow of the game (everytime I go to character menu and try to open the world map and it closes out I die a little inside) and the horrifically short (even shorter if you didn't get the lore audio for those fieldwork missions) story just makes me check out. I wanted the full story drop, but man theres no way Episode2 Act1 narritiveily is as long as Episode1 Act1 was
This.
100%
Especially since I have no way of knowing if that roll will be worth my time and effort in the next patch. Look at bygones it literally just got massacred
You're not a destiny player then, congrats, stay out of the game
people will complain about crafting removing the grind and then complain about having to grind the same activity over and over to get a good weapon drop. crafting respects the player's time and gives them a guaranteed way to earn a reward while also giving the player choice of perks.
Absolutely no one complained about crafting but Bungie who wants to inflate playtime. If they got the attunement system right we wouldn't be having this conversation
@@kcisthe1stpeople did complain about it and even some clown made a video about how they should remove it and only listen to players that play this game as a job. Their main point was crafting is taking the grind away and giving them no reason to play
@@kcisthe1st where tf have you been? There were a lot of people complaining about weapon crafting and wanted to grind for the weapon rolls they wanted 😂 now that they got what they wanted, they’re bitching about wanting crafting back 🤦🏽♂️😂 make it make sense
@@jdeevee2k I think it's different people complaining in both instances.
I will die on the hill of crafting getting removed is the best thing
If they don't want us to have crafting, then there needs to be an engram focusing system.
Not having either is a huge step back and only exists to make the game more annoying to play.
I understand RNG plays a big role on destiny. But you can't make progress and then regress and expect it to go over well, when people have seen how something could be better.
Whats funny is that we did have this with umbral engrams, I don’t understand why they didn’t bring a form of that back for seasonal weapons. People that don’t have enough time to play can get these engrams, have a chance at getting that specific weapon and boom! They might get lucky with doing the activity of choice where it drops there, so they can knock it off their list and focus another
The reason why I like crafting is because trying to get a dungeon weapon with a perk that you want is almost impossible.
For example, I'm trying to get the new dungeon Auto rifle, and I just want it with jolting feedback, so I'm just wanting a 1/5. I have gotten over 70 of those autos to drop, and I've yet to get one with jolting feedback. I am not kidding. At this point it's just frustrating and I just quit.
Even with being able to focus an auto rifle (at the chest) and have that weapon be guaranteed to drop, still doesn't help a specific perk or specific perk combo to drop. There either needs to be crafting or there needs to be ways where you can focus certain perks on a weapon
Nothing will kill this game faster than removing crafting
You do know it’s bugged right?
@@GeronimoPlaz The game has had to fire people twice in seasons with crafting, last season has had an average player count lower than this season. Crafting isn't doing anything for this games death or life, it's the content which has sucked for years
@@ghostirqNo perk has a lower or higher chance to roll. Combinations of perks, however, do. OP just wants a 1/5.
All I'm gonna say is that crafting respects my time 100x more than normal RNG farming. Do I want a direct path to get exactly what I want out of a weapon or spend 50-100+hrs in the same encounter just to settle for a 3/5 roll? The answer should be obvious.
To this day I have yet to get a perfect roll on Matador. I spent 3 hours total over a weekend farming red borders in GoS and now have a perfect Prophet of Doom that is better than Matador could ever hope to be.
What the hell are we even talking about. I'm convinced people that don't like crafting in Destiny have no respect for their own time. Keep hitting that slot machine guardian, you're definitely not a gambling addict. Smile.
Legitimately this. You can't be complaining about the game not respecting your time, and simultaneously want a system that doesn't respect your time.
Like, what?
Especially on seasonal weapons. Like, I kind of understand the argument for not wanting raid or dungeon weapons or something that's supposed to stick around forever to be craftable, even if i disagree, but weapons whose sources only stick around for a few months to a year? Like, come on.
@@yourewrong9028 Yep. Seasonal weapons should always be craftable, but dungeon and raid gear should be taken out of that system.
Why else would you want do the raid once you got the exotic and the patterns? It seems so backwards on the initial complaint about the seasonal weapons.
Just bringing this up because I know someone else will:
_Oh but what about that satisfactory dopamine hit when you DO get that 6/5 God roll? That pure intoxicating satisfaction of high rolling?_
I farmed every single day for a spare rations when they first came out until they sunset them and best was a 3/5 that wasn’t even usable. Never had a good madator as well. Still no good eyeasluna, never had a 5/5 outside of crafting. The grind was so good in destiny 1 cause exotic drops were so rare and actually strong and the roll was static. That was the excitement. Not bs trash rolls just deleting over and over. How can you trust rng anyway after what they just got caught doing. Fuck all this for real.
1) Crafting beats the fuck outta whatever the hell Bungie wanted to do this season.
2) Tonics are ass. They ARE convoluted (not even your guide was good enough to flesh them out entirely), they are a worse version of the engram system we've always had. You got engrams from all activities, which you could then FOCUS for EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! Tonics are shit, and defending them is shill behavior.
3) The activities we got this season are below mid af. The stuff coming in Act 2 looks mid af. I am not excited for Act 3 either, based on what Bungo has fumbled out this season.
Basically, everything we've gotten has been a shit sandwich and I am getting Lightfall levels of apathy again. Essentially, the game sucks...and don't even get me started on the INSANE amount of bugs.
Truth
Crafting is better and uses less vault space
That's a big point too, according to the FaQ in the frontier twab, no vault changes until behemoth, and it's not certain if any increase is happening in behemoth.
how to anger D1 better than D2 chuds with a single comment
Give us more Vault Space then. Crafting is not healthy for the livelihood of the game. It removes the joy from the grind. Had Crafting been Bad Luck protection, then maybe the system would have been healthy, but as it stands Crafting does nothing but make the game more boring and more of a chore.
Yeh RNG would be less a problem if we had more space to put the different combinations
@@BatM-l6j No changes until they start charging silver for more space and drop crafting completely.
The Destiny 2 Civil War
Team Crafting vs Team Gambling
Let's go gambling
Team that plays the game for the loot vs Team that plays the game to complete checklists
Maybe both ( impossible)
@@Skm00n love these types of dumbass comments LMAO
Team Hair vs Team Receding
This isnt a debate. Crafting saved seasonal content. It's the best thing they ever implemented into the game.
Anyone who thinks crafting is a bad thing should be institutionalized.
Nobody wants to run the shitty seasonal activity for 3 months for the chance at a halfway decent roll on a weapon that will be irrelevenant as soon as the next season drops.
Spending 90% of your time chasing loot rolls only to then immediately shelf those so you can farm the new seasonal weapons is a terrible gaming experience.
100% correct
Nah lower end content shouldnt have crafting. At most engram focusing. You shouldnt be able to craft BiS weapons
Personally I think there is a middle ground to be had here.
RNG with with extended options for the first 2 parts of the Episode, red borders with part 3. That way if you haven't found a roll you have the option to get the crafted before the episode closes and into the next.
That way both sides win, those who want to chase 5/5 or those who want to spend the mats on the crafted later. Crafting should be the fail back not the default and I'm say that as someone who lives the crafted life. Most seasons I've maxed the crafting in the first week or two there were available that just leads me to sharding everything for the rest of it.
Stop crying keep grinding😂
The loud minority was begging for the grind to return, saying it was why the game was good. They were wrong.
If they removed the timer from the tonics and you could just swap them out as you needed that would be 10,000X better than what we have. Loathe the entire system.
Yeah, I don’t even think the timer is a big thing, it’s just very inconvenient and it’s just like could u not have made this a little more intuitive
I think for the Tonics, instead of it being on a timer, it should be how many activities you could do with the level of the Tonic. For example, the Uncommons last for 1 activity, the Rares for 2, and the and the Legendaries last for 3. That way, you can maximize the potential of these Tonics and can easily track how long it will last.
No. Tonics need to go away forever. Everything about this seasons loot acquisition is terrible.
@@FlashesSoccer011 Like it or not, tonics are here until the end of act 3 of the next episode. Changes to how they work are the best you can hope for.
@@FlashesSoccer011 I don't mind the tonics. Only gripe is not having them auto activate. I should be able to just set a tonic and have it replenish the timer when it runs out.
That example is horrible ..im not tryin to be crafting and chasing materials ..tf ...
The timer is fine ..just need a higher percentage of drops
Having it be timed is absolutely ridiculous. Just make it last for a full activity.
Crafting is way better than no crafting
The “loot chase” kills the game for me. I have a life now that I didn’t when I was younger and could avoid homework by grinding all day. I kinda would like to have a deterministic way of getting these weapons since luck, even for streamers, isn’t something worth betting on
Removing crafting has made my entire clan quit the game. No one cares enough anymore to farm for a roll that will be obsolete in a couple months
We got lives outside of constantly playing D2, I hate having to playing over and over again in comparison to getting a craftable gun and choosing the rolls i want
100% Bungo listen to these lo life streamers waaaaay to much, so much so they have alienated the casuals which are the backbone of any game.
I live on d2 and still have been looking for a envious arsenal chill clip and blinding sideways chill clip liturgy 6 weeks later. Tonics are popped almost always and I get more snipers/sidearms than gls
@@pituguli5816 this game has been burger friendly for years, raid level loot is given for free by afking seasonal content, what are you on about lmao
@@Reason7322 What? I ran GOS 150x for the farm on 1st and 2nd encounter, I got all up 6x reds and no G rolls.. What free loot? You like those Utubers who claim class items are free from Hallo event...
Then play another game? You do realize crafting has only been a part of D2 since Witch Queen right? Thats not that long.
If a game is no longer fitting into your life style its not the game that has to change but you figuring out which games do.
Like hlw many of us play MMOs now that we’re older? Probably a lot less. Why? Because we simply dont have the time to put into it. So then what, should every MMO now change its core target audience to the casual Dads just because I want to keep playing? No. You move on and find another game.
For me? I dont need every weapon in D2. If I get it cool, If I dont? Oh well. Its not like my vault isnt filled with almost 700 different weapons of which I use like 10 anyways.
Thats the issue. Everyone is falling victim to FOMO when we all knkw how often things get power crept anyways. You dont need every weapon. The easier you understand that the more enjoyable your time can be in Destiny.
Fundamentally if a game is no longer fun? Just find one that is. I have fun mindlessly killing things in D2 with the occasional raids or GMs. I grind for weapons, sure but Im not going to get stressed just because I dont get it.
If you cant out yourself in that mentality? Youre no longer playing the game, the game is playing you.
I go with crafting and the reason for that is because they load these weapons with so many damn perks nowadays that it's tedious trying to get the one you want.
If all weapons had the double perk slot maybe it wouldn't be so bad
Crafting will always be better because I will play to unlock the frame of bad/mediocre weapon. I won't ever grind for a god roll of a bad weapon regardless of the number of drops.
The issue is once you've crafted the weapon, no future drop of that weapon can be better so it becomes pointless in the loot pool.
There has to be a chance for a (very slightly) better version to drop otherwise there is no point to a looter game.
@@tomaszguzik9018fair point
@@tomaszguzik9018 with an ever increasing ammount of weapons to chase i see this as a necessity
@tomaszguzik9018 Yes and then I move to a new activity with new drops as players always have throughout the entire game?
And then never use the crafted roll beacuse its bad/mediocre. What have you gained? Atleast with god rolls you can show off
Crafting respects my time investment and I can move to my next grind faster and be less frustrated.
And it helps my Vault and protects being able to craft again if a perk gets buffed or nerfed in the future
I prefer Crafting over RNG ngl ima still watch the video though.
Same
Yup
Destiny 2's biggest problem: Its community
I remember pre-crafting they were like "WE NEED SOMETHING TO AVOID THIS RNG"
then we got crafting and everyone was "THANK YOU BUNGIE THIS IS AWESOME"
then 20 seconds later it was "WE NEED RNG BUNGIE, WE NEED MORE LOOTCHASE"
then 30 seconds later, Bungie reduces the amount of craftable weapons and now it's a problem again hah
100%
Real dude that’s why the game ain’t even fun no more. First sunsetting now we’re walking back great qol changes because some d1 fan boys can’t live past their nostalgia and want more reasons to flex. Like we get it bro you were on of the 1% who had gally in d1. Congrats want a cookie?
Thing is tho you can still have rng loot rolls… just don’t craft weapons like tf idek why this is a debate or something bungie even needed to do.
Aztecross, you're in the vast minority of people who don't want crafting. Honor your audience. We all want crafting.
Because the crafting they introduced is too powerfull. It shouldn't have let you make a perfect item. No future drop of that item can ever be better or exciting.
@@tomaszguzik9018 Question: Do you play Destiny for loot drops or do you play because you enjoy the content? Give us whats good NOW so we can enjoy the content not having to run the same content 100x for a chance to get what we want then getting sick of playing it then never running it again.
content enjoyment over loot grinds because the game becomes only about loot grinds when we should be enjoying the content.
It’s only masochists that didn’t like crafting
wrong
@@BakrisKills Right
Aka people without lives
@@GeronimoPlaz dont play grindy games if u dont have time for them, or dont bitch when u dont get every single item in the game after 20 hours of playtime
It was only streamers and content creators. A small minority with the loudest voices.
Are craft-able weapons done? I think all weapons should be craft-able.
There has to be a way to integrate one into the other more seamlessly…
How about that ALL craftable weapons are unlocked for crafting the first time you pick it up, BUT you have to find the perks for the weapons for future crafting from obtaining weapons with the perks you’re looking for from random rolls?
Use the “harmonic synthesizer” to unlock the perk once you collect. Thus making people have to weigh pro/con of the perks each season?
@@echelon007entertainment when you only get so many synthesizers per season? have you even played the game?
Don't see how that solves anything. That's like crafting but without the "upside" of perfect god rolls for no effort.
@ that’s the thing make it some expensive piece from xur with limits per week, but it would make everyone question what perk they want to make craftable
@@davidredsox im not a dev so in my mind it still makes a push for a grind but also still utilizes crafting.
"The tonic system is terrible for the gear chase"
Cross: "look at the tonics we have for artifact perks and materials"
He acts like we didn't have all of these things baked in as seasonal vendor upgrades in previous seasons 🙃
We do get more of them tho
I'd be more on board with RNG if I could just change out my barrel, mag, and grip like they were mods on a gun.
It's crazy that it's 2024 and we haven't figured that out yet. If I could take a gun like Hung Jury, put any sight, barrel, mag, or stock on it as long as I had the resources to do so, I'd be thrilled. All I need to focus on is the perk combo I want. And if the exotic class item proved anything is that STILL with just TWO perks to hunt for the RNG can be stingy af.
Real shit, let us spend those useless Ascendant Alloys to atleast re-roll the barrel, mag and MW on a gun, if we can't craft it.
Gonna be honest, I didnt hate crafting I just felt nothing towards it, apathetic. Into the Light was the First time in a long time that I had gotten excited to get weapon drops, now this season is somewhat similar theres a few weapons I want and Ive been popping potions like crazy and I love it. I can do what I want when I want and still get the weapons Im chasing, maybe not the rolls but thats rng. Maybe the Timers could be a little longer but I dont think its a necessity overall I think potions are a great addition and Im glad its in the game. That and its always good to see Bungie doing new things, even if its something small like this.
I like Destiny. I need a reason to play. Loot RNG is not it. I have a goal with red borders and I feel good knowing I can do other things with my time. Can’t interact with the dungeon as much because onslaught doesn’t drop enough flakes to make it tonics worth it.
God I totally agree on that flake drop rate comment. Those flakes have been a thorn in my backside for weeks now.
Proposal: tonics should last for x number of activities based on their rarity instead of being on a timer
Seasonally crafted weapons are the only source for solo players but of course, Bungie wants to stop it.
This game is 1000x better when you play with other people. You’re not even playing the whole game if you do everything solo. Why bother playing at all and why would anyone want to hear your opinion about this game if you only play a tiny portion of the game ?
@@223ndog tell us how your fireteam doesnt have the heart to tell you theyre sick of carrying you without telling us 😂😂😂
Absolutely. I hate not being able to craft. It takes too long without crafting. I can't play 6 hours per day
Then you wont get the weapon. Tough shit lil bro. You cant have everything. Its okay to not get something
This article’s author leaves out a crucial point (which applies to him so surprise he left it out): if he doesn’t like crafting and wants RNG drops, then don’t craft stuff and grind for it! There’s nothing stopping him from grinding even when crafting exists.
Because secretly he hates himself and RNG but clings to "Crating is bad" If you enjoy running a Raid 100x to obtain something you have mental issues.
@@arkhammer4759 for that you need it to be possible for a drop to be better then a crafted weapon. Time invested in to grinding in a looter needs to have some pay off. Even if it'd be something as silly as +5 to a single stat or sth.
Enhanced perks exist ffs.
@@BuoyBuizelyou can enhance random drops as well as crafted weapons.
@@arkhammer4759 Added literally last season, you also don't understand why people who grind grind, they grind for better rolls and more damage not because they love grinding. They're not arguing for grinding over a love of grinding they're arguing for it to make loot more valuable and the game more fun to play. If you genuinely think making the weapons this season craftable would help the season in anyway then boy you're dumb, just look at last season, had crafting and had lower player averages than this season, and last season had a major expansion alongside it. The content sucks but you're too stupid to realize it, you want better content not a checklist that helps you forget you're playing a crappy game
As a casual tryhard, I can confidently say that grinding for rolls in Destiny is the worst part of the game. I don't have time to partake in activities I enjoy, explore the world, or get the desired rolls in time so that they're not outclassed by new ones. Every weapon in the game should be craftable. Either that, or they should institute a leveling system like CoD.
Paul Tassi, a man with 50 lifetime dungeon clears try to explain why farming for god rolls is better than crafing? Man has never farmed in his life gtfo
@@Hosk17 only 5/5 he has are crafted as well 🤣
Tassi has always been the crowned king of whiners tho. He has the most asinine takes when it comes to this game
I don't do tonics bc I dont feel like flying to a separate destination just for them.
I like crafting for the convenience of changing rolls whenever I want to and it helps with weapon bloat in my vault.
On the other hand having something to chase other than red borders is better for longevity in my opinion. Aka, that feeling you get when you finally get that that good roll lol
The problem is, we have a lot of options and even better ones, most people wont even bother going after guns with no redborders, i'am one, most people i know dont even bother doing the activities because you cant craft them.
IF we had Unlimited Vault Space, then yeah, RNG would be superior. But in a game where there's PVE & PVP and the meta is constantly changing, being able to craft whatever kind of roll you need at any given moment (without needing to hoard a bunch of different rolls of the same weapon, taking up a whole bunch of space), That is CLEARLY the Better Option.
*side note: I REALLY wish the Ergo Sum & Exotic Class Items were able to have some kind of crafting component where maybe could pick from the perk combinations you've obtained. You have to select them with the exact perks that they dropped with, but you don't have to take up an absurd amount of your vault space
Nobody talks about how glad they are craftable weapons are gone. Because nobody is-RNG sucks.
Only these streamers like the changes, rest of people who actually touch grass don't.
I am not a streamer and I am legit glad it’s gone. Crafting sucks.
Man, I’ve wrote dissertations on the loot scarcity in Destiny. Bungie’s outright refusal to turn up the loot drop rates kills all motivation to sink any more time into the game.
There is simply to many variables to getting a “god” roll to drop. The drop rates are so paltry that I’d rather lick sand in the Sahara. Truthfully the only reason people spend as much time as they do grinding for “god” rolls is because the game play is satisfying.
Unfortunately for me, the satisfying game play loop is no longer appealing to me. Crafting was a swing so far in the other direction that I can see why people would want it back. Quite simply it’s a guarantee that if a person puts in the time they can get exactly what they want, which cannot be said without crafting.
Seriously, the only time I enjoyed farming for loot was double loot drops from Nightfalls. Honestly, that system needs to be turned all for all activities 100% of the time.
I’m not saying people need to get Adept loot for every activity, but any activity that drops its loot should be cranked up to 11. With all the variables, I don’t understand why Bungie is so averse to turning up the amount of loot people receive for activities. Want to solve the crafting issue, crank up the loot drop amount, pure and simple.
The answer is a bit of both like it was, I have not grinded a single of these after they removed crafting. The reason I love crating and " finishing" a grind, knowing that's done and behind me allows me to move on to something else. The feeling that I can always go back and craft a roll I want or need without having to grind for 100s of hours and still not getting the rolls I want.
I farmed the hell out of echoes acrivities to get all the red borders of the guns, played just 6 times onslaught salvation and dintd bother anymore.
@@aygaion2295 Same, without red borders it gives me less reason to grind.
NO! I love that I actually have a reason to grind now. Y’all don’t wanna play, absolutely nobody is forcing you to. Let those of us that like a grind have it back.
Tonics are fine, but they don't last long enough. And they should not expire DURING an activity (yes, I know you can reapply while in the activity, but that's annoying)
Agreed. I feel 2 hours instead of one is good
I mean the solution is simple. All seasonal weapons can be crafted, however you also have a shiny variant which cannot be crafted and can only drop as an RNG drop.
I can only speak for myself but, I haven't played a single day this season since I found out there weren't going to be any craftable weapons.
Right. At this point I just play for the season pass I bought. Even then, i completely stopped playing a few weeks ago at only level 40.
So you only play for crafting weapons?? What did you do after crafting the other episodes weapons? Did you you stop playing. Are craftable weapons the only good weapons in the game and you said I have all the "best" weapons this season so no reason to play anymore?
If you dont like crafting don't craft just keep farming rng . And us who lime crafting will craft. Just because you can doesn't mean you have to.
Genuinely felt that the reward tonics sucked ass. It felt like I never got the right weapon I was focusing for. I had one match where I never got a weapon until around wave 40 and it wasn’t even the weapon my tonic was focused on
I miss crafting
i like the IDEA of tonics. it just wasn’t executed super well i think
Crafting takes less time. People complain that it ruins replayability. So? If anything, that’s a good thing. It forces Bungie to make better content that’s actually enjoyable to play so we have a reason to beyond hoping we strike gold with every single weapon in the game, and it requires players to spend less time on the game.
Idk i prefer crafting but i like having both options, i prefer reducing rng so im not gatekept out of making builds 😅
Exactly
For me, with crafting, I would chase red borders even for weapons I wasn't excited for because of a "just in case" and you hold that pattern literally forever if you ever need it. Now because I'm forced to get a lot of RNG drops for weapon I don't care about and would rather ignore since I can't craft them, they dilute the drops for weapons I do want. So I feel less compelled to engage in the content when I only care about 1/4 of the drops or whatever.
Exactly!
Sometimes I end up making a very specific build that needs a weapon with a very specific perk combo and a old seasonal weapon from a year ago will end up having it. Crafting majorly helps in keeping weapons in player's hands
@theremnants6807 yup. You're not gonna know to keep stuff like that a year in advance, or if you do keep a bunch of stuff because of the "just in case" you're quickly gonna fill up your vault
Maybe I'm just too casual now, but I don't have enough time to grind random rolls in endgame content, so those patterns were enough for me to play throughout the season.
I'll still play, but I guess I'll just have to dedicate a little more time to seasonal activities. No worries.
Just making crafting more complex. Lean a little bit more towards warframe. Do something instead of just login in every week to get a red boarder. Then keep the shiny rolls. Why not do both. Also, get rid of the instant level up on the crafted rolls. I liked being able to level it up.
im on my 50th bitter/sweet and still no envious arsenal/ BnS
100% rng never stop gambling
That's why I don't bother, if its good they will nerf it which makes it pointless to waste your time.
And when you do get one, watch it have awful options like explosive ordinance/proximity grenades and volatile/confined launch with a crappy reload MW.
This is why crafting will be indefinitely better.
Craftable, I don't got time to farm like I did when I was 20. Rng has its place i guess. But crafting had me longing in every week. Now I don't. I don't care about shinies, to each their own, I just want something I can actually use
They messed up crafting when they allowed raid and exotic weapons to be crafted. Literally 0 reasons to raid once you have all the red borders
So you play content for a carrot on a stick? While I play to enjoy said content.
uh isnt that the same for getting your god roll or close to it? That's not a great take. There's plenty of reasons. Achievements being one of them, rewards attached to achievements, speed runs, low mans, bragging rights, sherpaing other new raiders. FOR FUN. God forbid that a raid or dungeon be actually fun enough to run just because its bloody fun. And don't even for a second tell me people don't do things just for fun over and over again otherwise Disney theme parks would have gone out of business a long time ago.
@@pituguli5816 go play warframe or first descendants because thats LITERALLY the same concept. you farm to get the best roll and use it in stronger content. raids aint enjoyable when you have done them several times over for both red borders and exotics. its called stale content and its precisely the reason seasonal content EXISTS........
You can enjoy older content but I can bet you dont run it weekly on every character and neither does the majority once they have what they want.
@@pituguli5816Why are you such a dick lol
@@123TheCloop Ahh tisk tisk how wrong you are, I play all 3x chars since all 3x chars are at 2025 power level now.
Funny all I did was ask a question and you reacted with "Go play warframe" How about no? How about I will play what I want to play?
You never answered my question. Raids aren't enjoyable even with or without red boarders if you have to run them 100x.. I ran the loot farm for GOS and out of more than 150 runs I got 6x reds and no G rolls.. Imagine running it 500x to get the rolls on all the weps hahahahahahaaha.
Get with the program, the player base is gone, stop with the gate keeping you aren't doing the game any favors.
The true issue will always be “RNG is bad” since even RNG tends to be the reason you can’t complete your crafting sometimes.
Crafting all the way!!
The point of this franchise has been to GRIND. FOR. LOOT. If crafting is going to stay for seasonal guns red borders need to be rarer than Into the Light shiny weapons. And the CAN'T DROP FROM FOCUSING. Waiting till an act starts and playing vending machine simulator with stored up engrams is not it. That shit is boring and kills the achievement of collecting a 5/5.
I feel like crafting should only be for a baseline. Get "good enough" gear, but the actual god rolls on the actually good weapons should be rng
The #1 thing for me about Tonics that makes them bad, is the fact that there is no indicator that you do or don't have a tonic(outside of the notification, which I may or may not ignore when stuff's going on, especially when I JUST put a tonic on and it notifies me it "expired" in 1 min). Could just be a tiny icon near your abilities and stuff. I've played long enough without Tonics that I don't even think about them unless I get loot that comes from it. Yeah, that's a me problem, but still. I've probably spent 5% or less of my time this season with a Tonic on, simply because I don't even think of it.
I prefer crafting because I can choose to keep a weapon or delete it comfortably without worrying about losing the god roll because my vault is full. Sucks this season because of course I hoard a bunch of rolls, then sift thru them like I would any non crafted weapon. For Crafted weapons, I can get the pattern, then let it sit in the enclave waiting to be crafted when I decide it's worth crafting. I like the idea of getting multiple perk rolls per weapon to help skew the RNG in your favor and counter weightgate (until they fix that), especially when you do more challenging difficulty of whatever content drops it. The other aspect of it I like, with red borders, is at least there is an end goal to where I can not feel obligated to play the game so much that I can't enjoy other games.
I am FULLY AWARE that some of these are just me problems, but nowadays every game wants your full attention just at the off chance you want to spend some money on their offerings, and it gets to be a pain to have to try and play every game just to keep up with stuff. Being able to craft gives me a clear defined goal, with some RNG on drop rate, but at least once I get it, I don't feel like I'm wasting a ton of time chasing the perfect roll just to be disappointed over and over. At least enhancement has bridged the gap of having the boosted crafting perks so you can keep those god rolls and have them comparable to crafting. I only played a bit during D2 launch then from season 21 onward, I can't imagine having played the other 20 seasons just grinding for rolls all the time... RNG sucks sometimes. I'm all for them dropping some god rolls thru Banshee or Xur more often, not always old weapons that have no origin traits that are mostly powercrept. Or maybe a new vendor?
FOMO is important. Shinys are perfect because it’s aesthetically pleasing, but if we knew shiny rolls would be attainable in the future the majority of us wouldn’t have gone nearly as hard in into the light
I think we would have. Onslaught is a solid gameplay loop and relatively less time consuming unless you're cracked and are farming final checkpoints
Biggest tonic system problem atm is "different" types of crafting materials for it. Leaving alone 4-5 that's not in game yet, at least one of them you forced to farm in one particular activity. You can't get weapon tonic's without farming over and over new onslaught. And it is indeed boring, almost hour long, activity.
I don’t respect Paul Tassi after reading his shill articles from other games. Games journalists have really gone mask off recently.
The problem isn't the Volatile Tonics, for me it's the Enriching ones. I understand if you pop the tonic while playing other activities like Strike or PvP in order to still occassionally roll season weapons. My problem is that I specifically play Salvation Onslaught to roll the weapons in that loot pool. Then I drink the tonic in order to FOCUS a specific weapon in that loot pool, in my case Exuviae. I'll go through a whole 50 wave run, get around 10 or so weapons to drop and I'll be LUCKY if I get more than 1 Exuviae to drop that entire time. It feels like the tonic somehow does the opposite to what I want it to do. During Into the Light, if I attune to Blast Furnace and run a 50 wave Onslaught, I can rest assured I'll get at least 4 or 5 of that weapon to drop, not to mention the additional rolls I can get turning in Trophies of Bravery at Shaxx. If the tonics are supposed to increase the drop chance of specific weapons, I think they need to take a pass at it to make sure that's what it's doing and if needed increase the drop chance while under the effects of a tonic even MORE.
They way they should have implemented crafting should have been like this, say you get a decent roll not amazing, but then you can break other weapons down for lets call them perk nodes, you select the perk on the gun break it down and in exchange gives you a perk node of that perk, these new perk nodes can then be slotted into 1 per column and thats it, no reforging. So if you want the same gun you have to get another one, but if its perks are what you want you can enhance those perks with perk nodes too.
This is just the worst of both scenarios. This solves nothing.
This is just a super shitty version of crafting that is still entirely reliant on RNG.
It's easily the worst suggestion I have heard so far.
This basically how crafting was on release and it was horrible which is why they changed it
@@FlashesSoccer011 Then what's yours then, people complain about RNG, crafting, loot incentive there is no solution to the issue that people wouldn't whine about.
Main problem with random rolls nowadays is that almost all weapons have 1 PvP and 1 PvE god roll in most cases, there are just so many useless perks added on purpose just to be there
Crafting is needed. I get all my happiness from using the god roll.
thats a YOU problem. Not true for the hardcore, be causal all you want but dont speak like its a fact. it is not.
@@BakrisKills You b-raindead numpty, Bungo catered for hardcores where did that get us? Lowest player count in history of the game, abandon casuals you kill your game.
@@BakrisKillscasual move the game, if they left you end with closed servers and will play with your ass.
@@pituguli5816 nope. guess you dont like facts. ill give you one and you can do your research you parasite. In D-1 and in d-2 who kept the game afloat in in its worst periods? Do you wanna guess, do you wanna do your research you fkn newb. The hardcore. D-1 was trials hardcore and in d-2 it was us in COO.You causal F2P garbage cans want everything handed to you, cry about no raid with matchmaking ect, and then cant even do hard content. shut up pussi, you know nothing and just started playing. Your response reeks of "im entitled" because you bought a game. Go earn it like it was meant, crafting is junk and has watered down any identity a weapon has. go feed that parasite in your brain. I bet you cried and cried when you couldnt clear a day 1 because its not geared towards your causal tastes. How is Day 1 raids in contest the most pronounced release of a new expansion if the causal tards are what keep the game up. Man you are missing choromsomes
With Crafting vs RNG grind, I like both to a degree. With crafting, it’s nice having it for some activities but not all of them. It’s why it bums me out with the raids. You get all your red borders and, if you care enough to go after the title and armor, then you’re done. I have NO reason to run the raids again. I want to run them for more than just the sake of it, I think it’s why my group and I grinded Pantheon since it could drop the adept weapons. For RNG, it’s a mix of nostalgia and gives me more of a reason to jump back on D2 rather than just for the weekly reset. I like having a loot chase/grind to give me a goal for the activities and rewards. Now, I don’t like when it feels like the weapon I’m chasing just doesn’t want to drop or I get other weapons even with a focusing node with Zavala or the tonics. RNG grinding isn’t a bad thing per se but it needs some major refinement.
The tonics are 50/50 for me. The tonics that buff the artifact? Love em, especially the stasis ones. The weapon, armor, and material tonics? Meh, doesn’t feel too great but it’s okay. I do think they could make it to where the tiers of the tonics(uncommon, rare, legendary, exotic) could behave differently between each other. An uncommon maybe drops a weapon or armor piece every few activities/rounds etc. and make the higher tier tonics drop something every 10 minutes or something. Oh, and remove the timer on the tonics man, that’s the most frustrating thing I have about them. Some only last for what? 15-20min? That’s terrible.
I think crafting spoiled the community tbh. I can speak from personal experience that I have spent HUNDREDS of hours farming GM's for 5/5 rolls on some adepts. Palindrome, hung jury, hothead to name a few. 2 of those 3 I have 5/5s for. When crafting got introduced, it was a better investment for my time. With enhanced perks, it is now a better option. 5 red borders=unlimited choices, better than base perks, and a gaurenteed 5/5. The red border drop rate appears to be about a 1 in 4 ish, so basically within 20 drops I can get the 5/5 roll. With this new found time on my hands, I can run older raids like VoG or KF that I want to run because I like them. Not because I'm after something to throw in the vault, but I can play because I love the game. This is why people prefer crafting. I don't think it's a spoon feeding thing, I think it's a time to do other stuff thing.
Now, I do think crafting has made getting end game items FAR to easy and accessible so I would like to propose the following: in the spirit of business, there has to be a value proposition. Crafting can offer the "value" of convenience, and RNG can offer a stronger item. I think enhanced perks should be limited to non crafted items. It gives more value to RNG drops, because they are more rare than crafted items so they can be more powerful, but crafting exists in the meantime to ensure a slightly worse version of still a powerful roll can be in the hands of the players
Destiny lifers are so stupid they'd rather grind an activity they dont enjoy for weeks to get a gun they want only to stop playing from burn out instead of, crafting their gun and doing the things they find fun with it
I really like your take. It really does come down to quality of time spent.
@@rjherra9285 you realize most people don’t have that type of luck. I’ve farmed for hundreds of hours for each and never got a 5/5. Easy comment to make from someone so lucky.
@@jsapp84 Tough shit lil bro. You win some and you lose some
Bring back crafting. Rando rolls suck.
From what happened recently with the perk weighting they need to crafting always been better
The problem with the tonic system is your grinding for materials to then pop a tonic and go through another grind. The only way the tonic system could be good is if A) a tonic lasted a day or B) if you could influence the rolls or C) the drop rate wasn't ass. It's just a slightly convoluted system that doesn't feel worthwhile. At least crafting respected your time.
Had to pause about 1:45 in, to say - Paul Tassi is objectively wrong in a demonstrable manner with his claim - "You can pop one [a tonic] and run 50 waves of onslaught and get exactly one copy of the weapon you're focusing"
Even with very bad luck, that's nigh impossible, and anyone can test this right now.
Solution: there is a toggle in the selection screen of the tonics in your inventory that automatically draws duplicates in your reserves until you run out of that specific tonic. Make 2-3 purples, and that's a full blown session where you make one selection in the screen.
As a person who works 5 to 6 days a week, 12 to 14-hour shifts away from home crafting makes getting the rolls i want a reasonable goal. I don't have a lot of time. Last season felt good. I was able to play for a few hours during the week. I or 2 more on my day off. I'm getting the rolls i want and making tangible progress. It's a seasonal weapon. Let the grind hards go for raids and dungeons. That's fine. Let the guy who enjoys the game but doesn't have the time for the endless loot chase have his seasonal weapons.
Playing so little, you shouldn't be able to get godroll of every weapon you want.
would you expect the same handout of loot in warframe or the first descendants then? because these have insane time sinks, sounds to me you just got far to complacent with a handout looting system and to be frank no looter shooter would cater to your lack of playtime, why? its called player time sink and its how these looters make money and have larger concurrent player counts.
They have the game be designed in a way that has excessive time sinks so they stay in the game longer. you simply are not the games audience they want and thats being real not elitist
@@123TheCloop According to the player base drop who is the target audience? Streamers? Lets see how that pans out for them.
@@123TheCloopyou guys are just hopeless vagabonds with too much time in your hands.
@@pituguli5816the idiot just used the first descendent as a excuse for stupidity, the game who is literally bleeding players, lmao.
Shinies from into the light worked not only cause the were visually different and that got u exited the second u saw it. It was easy to identify. But also drops were more frequent as Tassy mentioned, right now the seasonal “shinies” are capped at the 30+ waves with only the chest drops having a chance at it(aledgedly). They need to increase the ways to focus this guns(either give a chance to ecounters to drop seasonal engrams that we can focus at Iedo, or increase the frequency of tonic weapon drops
Guess what? You never had to craft them If you didn't want to, you could have always just waited for your roll like you always have.
yeah, and get those enchanced perks via random drops aswell
no, wait, fuck
I’ve grinded nearly 100 Mecharbe rolls, and 90% of them have been Air Trigger + Vorpal. I’m not joking or using hyperbole. Literally 90% of my rolls have been dukey.
Crafting would have circumvented this.
Yes, I know my luck may just be abysmal (I would like to know the probability of this happening), but I am starting to suspect another loot glitch
I've had the same happen with me trying to get a braytech with rewind kinetic tremors and I just couldn't do more runs! I was so mad lol
Giving crafted weapons the ability to be enhanced killed the loot chase. Crafting as it was implemented hurt the loot system.
So someone who gets paid to play destiny 2 is for the tonics. What a surprise. The weapon crafting was better especially after weight gate. Rng is bs and makes the grind twice as long. The tonics are terrible. Who wants to have to stop during an activity to reapply a tonic.
Most weapons now have 7-8 perks in each column (some even going up to 12) so at base thats a 1/14 to 1/16 chance at a 2/5 roll. That doesnt sound bad until you factor in armor bloated loot pools and the lack of focusing which turns that into a 1/56 to 1/112 for a basic 2/5 on most weapons, but can be significantly worse depending on the source of them. We need more double perks and selectable barrel/magazine options.
And realistically if you don't like weapon crafting that's fine and understandable but realistically it's at a point where playlist weapons are more valuable to grind for then seasonal weapons why because when you reset your rank it's a chance of it getting multiple traits in each column and by keeping on resetting you can also have the possibility of 3 in each sometimes 4 but realistically I don't get why that isn't the same for these seasonal weapons, trials, nightfalls, and dungeons and even some events such as this past event having no way of getting multiple traits in both columns
2:10 they just overcomplicate a very simple mechanic. its just over complicating stuff for the sake of it.
Only the people with 2000+ hours were the ones crying about crafting. They need RNG to make the game exciting for them. Not realizing they really just need to move on
Some thoughts on the Tonic System...
Back in Into the light, I was positivly suprised about the loot grind for the godrolls of the weapons. I was able to attune a single weapon, and had mostly that weapon drop with a chance of a shiny roll with double perks, making it much more likely to get the roll I wanted. I therefore spend many, many hours playing the new mode to get the roll I wanted. And at some point, I got what I was looking for.
Fast forward to today where I have to do activity, I have not interest in, only to get some material to craft a tonic, that barely increases the drop chance for the weapon I want to grind for. It feels like when I drink the tonic for Bitter/Sweet, I get 1 roll of that weapon out of 5 drops. In addition to that, **playing the Salvation Onslaught mode drops all weapons and armor instead of only the attuned weapon**. I have played about 20 hours of expert salvation onslaught and don´t have one, just one, roll of a weapon I care for, despite optimizing every run and all 150 hours since launch of revenant with the tonic of the weapon I want. This feels really shitty (like being trapped in a badly designed skinnner box) and like Bungie just wanted to increase the playtime by any means possible. I get that the crafting of the seasonal weapons made them less appealing to grind for, as you could just buy the red border once per week for the weapon you cared for.
But this is not a worthwhile alternative.
**TLDR:**
If you take away the red border crafting system, at least make it easy to grind for the weapon you care for, maybe just use the attunement system with shiny rolls like in into the light. Just add the armor to the attunenent table and you have a way for the first time to target farm for a specific armor piece. If they then drop with good stats, it could be a viable and rewarding alternative to artifice armor farming.
Why not both? Crafting for convenience, cosmetics for grinding past crafting. Instead of grinding for rolls, you're grinding for clout, for big dick energy. You get red borders? Sure it's nice, but having a god roll shiny with a unique skin feels ball tingling in a good way.
Quick tip, if you use a weapon tonic (splicer weapons etc.) and go to shuro-chi, I’ve noticed that after 250-300 kills I was getting a drop.
4:15 perfect time to plug in the ANTICROSS filter and they missed it 😂😂😂😂😂😂
But everything he said was spot on. Super easy to understand and use and they still out there bitchin.
I think all weapons in every activity should drop with double perks.
I understand tonics fine but i loved crafting i wish it was cheaper though! Also being able to farm glimmer with tonics is nice so why not both? Also shiny is awsome but why not let us farm for the "shiny" ornament?
RNG is destiny Crafting is Call of duty
Crafting killed my love for the grind and from someone who was playing since 2019 D2 and a lil bit of the beta, I feel like grinding for it is better for the dopamine feeling, the rewarding feeling, crafting will defeat those feelings cuz you are set on a timed path, a predetermined path, whereas no crafting will set you on an adventure to get the roll you want. “WHAT MADE YALL FORGET THE GRIND, OR ARE YALL JUST NEW PLAYERS THAT ARE LAZY” that’s just imo tho, take it with a grain of salt
OH AND FOR THE COMPLAINERS, IF YOU NEVER PLAYED DESTINY 1 I WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY YOU LIKE CRAFTING BUT IF YOU DID, SHAME ON YOU. WE DIDNT HAVE THIS BACK IN THE DAY WHY SHOULD WE NOW
@@SujiOfficialD1 had considerably less perks, and ALL perks were significantly less impactful in D1. This is a horrible argument. For reference, you could put on the most dog balls, green auto and still be successful in TRIALS, RAIDS, whatever, with little to no impact on your playstyle.You cannot do that (to the same level) in D2.
@@crsdj0110 im sayin d1 never had crafting and earning your god roll weapons meant smth, doing it in a fixed sense just takes away the rewarding feeling, like I said, it’s all about the feeling of finally getting smth you wanted after the grind. Its childish to think getting any good feeling in a fixed way is rewarding as the other way around.
@@SujiOfficial Like I said, perks meant less. In D1 just getting THE GUN, was normally enough, you didn't need a 5/5. In D2 perks MATTER and on some they define whether on not is is USEABLE, let alone meta. Also, this game is not a gambming sim. If you want to play something that gives you a 'rush', go waste your life and money spamming packs on fifa or madden.
Also, what's 'childish' is thinking that a game revolves entirely around you and what you want. There is an easy way to make this work for everyone, and that's to make random rolls on cratftable guns enhanceable.
Potions are a scam. Bring back GUARANTEED 100% drop of the FOCUSED weapon like how the menagerie was. If I focus for a sniper or an auto rifle I only want the item I’m focusing for. Everything else that I’m not interested in at that very moment needs to excluded from the drop pool because it just feels like a disrespectful waste of my time.
Paul Tassi's takes and videos are dull. Crafting lets more players gear up to take on more challenging and different content faster than exhaustively farming one activity for X roll on Y weapon.
The issue with the tonics is that you have to remember to apply them. Last episode, the seasonal activity had the passive mechanic to simply collect radiolaria and you turned it in at the end for a literal ton of loot. With the tonic though you get one maybe two added drops during a round of onslaught which only gives you one weapon at the end of the activity. Three drops doesn't equate to the literal half dozen or more we got with breach executable.
I would like to put out there that I’ve gotten probably 6 or 7 shinies since the creation of shinies and all shinies that I’ve had have been completely DOG SHIT so crafting 100% wins for me.
The main reason I like crafting is that it allows you to essentially save a drop for later. In the sense that something that sucks now or you dont care for but might be good later can have its pattern pocketed to be crafted later down the line without having to go through increasingly obscure farming methods to get one. It lightens up on vault space letting you not hold on to gear you wont use by basically using crafting as a bank, and this is doubly better for seasonal weapons which are usually phased out in yearly expansions, rendering getting more of them difficult or even impossible after their regular acquisition methods get deprecated. For example if you missed out on the Eremite and want it, you have to HOPE that banshee sells it, if he even can as i've only seen a small handful of season of the witch weapons. I can sympathize with the idea of relieving the pressure of having to blow tons of deepsight harmonizers on some of these older weapons since craftable weapons aren't enhanceable, but being able to skip some of the strangest grinds with crafting is a big plus for it on seasonal weapons. IMO the way theyre handling seasonal weapons should be how raid weapons should have worked since Vow, but we can't undo the past of craftable weapons for every raid. I like enhancing weapons much more conceptually but crafting has saved me SO much vault space.
There's also the issue where TONS of weapons are not enhanceable with very little justification for why they cant. Enhanceable weapons as a system started rolling out in season of the wish, but the reprised dreaming city weapons and warlords ruin weapons can't be enhanced even though they are from the same time period? What is the justification for the cutoff on ritual activity weapons not being enhanceable, i.e. why is blowout enhanceable but not out of bounds? How come I can't enhance my immortal or my buzzard? It feels like a lot of weapons are missing out by being arbitrarily denied access to enhancement and bungie hasn't said anything about being willing to let these weapons be enhanced retroactively like how you can enhance older versions of the FOTL weapons. I believe that bungie should work on letting literally any weapon with an origin trait get enhanced because it just seems really bad to leave so many weapons without it.
TLDR: I don’t hate tonics but they are pretty underwhelming and the system as a whole feels incomplete.
The easiest way to explain my opinion is just to list out what I would change from the current system:
-split current volatile tonics into artifact tonics and combat tonics
-artifact tonics would ONLY boost artifact mods, with no secondary effects, max of one active at a time
-every boost-able artifact mod would have corresponding uncommon (22 mins) and rare (44 mins) artifact tonics that only boost that mod
-legendary (66 mins) artifact tonics would boost two mods, and there would be one for every possible pair of boost-able mods
-combat tonics would give you buffs similar to the secondary effects volatiles have now, and there’d be more of them(ex: think of the “While devour is active, special ammo void weapons deal bonus damage” part of the weakening void tonics as its own tonic)
-allow up to 4 combat tonics to be active at once
-higher rarities have improved duration (22, 44, and 66 mins for uncommon, rare, and legendary respectively) and effect strength (each jump would be around a 3-5% improvement over the previous rarity)
-loot targeting enriching tonics should be replaced with an onslaught style attunement screen that can be accessed from the tonic capsule, where attuning to an item is like crafting and drinking its corresponding tonic in one step, ingredients are still consumed for this
-resource tonics for cores, prisms, raid banners, and ritual mementos should be added
Bungie said “potion crafting system”, but I think what they meant was “pick two extra artifact mods for an hour” and “have some attunement options with extra steps”. So, my solution is to simplify and streamline attunement, expand the pairing options for those “two extra artifact mods” while separating them from extraneous effects, and expand those extraneous effects into a functional combat potion system.