Cathedral Ceilings, Attics & Roofs with Spray Foam Insulation | 4 of 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2024
- This is part 4, the final video of the series where we cover melting of snow on roofs with SPF behind them. We take a look at hot climates using SPF to keep the attic cool and clean up a few other topics.
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So glad to find these videos before my husband put a huge hole in the gable. Central Alberta's deep freeze produced horrible amounts of attic rain. We are still building (yr 4 ... covid blew our budget.. now we build on time and $ earned) not all the fire taping is done so obviously we had internal penetration just weren't prepared for it to go down all the way from 2nd fl to the basement. Best time to catch it before all is finished, some repairs to do on some main floor window frames. anything else isn't finished anyway so not a huge problem. Hubby tore out some drywall upstairs closet & bdrm, both layers of wall bat were soaked (see below) and ceiling. sub floors water stained. mostly on the north and east walls a bit on the west and none yet on the south.
Key features: light grey metal simple a-frame roof (6-12 I think), double wall exterior walls 2x6 exterior bat insulation vapour+ 1" gap + 2x4 interior bat insulation drywalled not all taping mudding done
all ceilings are vaulted 2nd floor
Trusses ordered 2" heel came as 1' no time to change. added 6' closed cell spray foam from the exterior top plate up the roof deck, then the second wall was installed.
(winter was coming yada yada) attic pink blow in fibre over all that a lot of it !
Questions: I assume the ridge vent needs to go for a hot roof? Only one roof penetration for the main vent stack.
Attic access is from the outside on the west side gable end, box it in, inside the attic?
if we add the closed cell foam to the roof deck all the way, does it have to then meet the interior edge of the interior wall?
I wish I had a better contact for you, I would appreciate some input.
Thanks for taking the time to make these vids I will send these to our county planning department.
Why don't you call me tomorrow. My toll free is on the web site.
Wowzers never intended to watch hours of spray foam edumacation, but I’m glad I did. Extremely well done… thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Right, thank god I normally watch youtube at 2x
💯What a game changer watching this series! Thank you ever so much! I have subscribed 👍☺You have helped with one more piece of the construction puzzle solved to move forward. 👍This will be considered in the planning of the ceiling in the new 2.5 storey cathedral gambrel roof addition. You made it quite clear that in the existing gambrel roof and attic renovation that I started, the 21 pitch slope of the gambrel roof does Not allow access for the spray foam people. After a lot of thinking and researching to get that 2 inch air gap in this cold climate in Atlantic Canada, in that particular precarious section (8-10ft long to attic floor, or attic collar) I will make a sort of U-shaped trough for 2 inch high air to pass and have someone help at the soffit area to push it up to the attic collar, or attic floor. The 21 pitch section of the steep gambrel roof presently has pink insulation pushing up to the roof sheathing. This trough might be a challenge to push through under the roof sheathing with that pressure.
One more piece of the puzzle allegedly figured out as we problem solve to vent this existing attic renovation.
More great content. My main argument for spraying the roof as opposed to either batt ceiling or spray down is that the HVAC equipment will live a much longer and happier life in a conditioned environment vs the exceedingly high summer temps it would encounter in a typical attic space. Not to mention that high efficiency equipment cannot be installed in unconditioned spaces as per most US codes.
As a 30 year HVAC contractor in a very high humidity, high temp climate I still can't convince anyone that thermal bridging is a thing. Builders still design systems to be in the attic and think that an R6 duct wrap will keep out 140 degree moist air. It's just the way we've always done it... It's frustrating.
This was a great series. My techs love what you do and we're about as far apart in real life application as you can get :) Lots of great info to glean. Thanks for your contribution...
Great point on a strong termination line because I watched a man spend three days in a 60 foot boom lift, cutting and scraping. They’re going over the termination line ordered by the state fire marshal in a new high school Tennessee.,
Mike, You Sir are a rock star. Am in the planning process to build a barndominium and your videos have really helped me to learn what questions to ask and what I need to specify for roof system. There are lots of folks espousing positions based on zero data and total lack of science, so I truly appreciate your presentation of documentation, science and your candor. Thank you for doing what you do.
-Les
Glad to help Les.
Be blessed.
I am way smarter after consuming this 4 part series. I’m ready to address my new build with the best technical solution for insulation. Now I need to get the proper info together to convince my county building official. Thanks!
Frozen water going directly to vapor is sublimation not evaporation. Great series of videos. Building a post frame structure currently, going 4" closed cell on all exterior surfaces. 4" so there are no areas less than 3".
Sounds good.
Not many know that it is sublimation or that sublimation is even possible
Thank you for the clear concise presentation of this information. Watched every minute of the series and enjoyed it!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the great video series!! I'm very close to buying a very old house (1925) that needs a lot of work. Now I'm dreaming of having the whole house sprayed with closed cell, and bring the house from the drafty coal furnace in every room era to the modern, efficient, and clean SPF era!
You can do it!
Thanks teacher for letting us out of class early lol.
I was sold on cell foam long before finding your video's. Everything you talk about in your video's give me more talking points.
Thank you.
Happy to help!
Watched all videos in this series and I am sold on spray foam insulation. This is what I'll be utilizing to reclaim useable attic space.
Great. Now to find a good installer in your area, hire them and be happy with your purchase.
This spray foam 'Hot Roof' system appears to be the way to go on Vaulted parallel Chord trusses ... FANTASTIC ! and THX for taking the time to share your knowledge.
That said, and given costs.... I'm wondering if it's advisable or even acceptable ?
to do Spray Foam/Hot Roof on Vaulted Truss Areas of the House and on the transition/partition wall separating the Attic space over the Std Trusses on the rest of the House and still blow cellulose in the rest of that Attic space (Cold/Vented Attic) ?
Basically 2 completely separate Roof insulation systems on the same roof.... one HOT Roof Spray Foam on the Vaulted Parallel Chord Truss Portion of the House..... and a completely separate Std Truss Cold Attic/Vented Blown Cellulose on the rest ?
We do that all the time. Old ways with new way. Just need to separate them 100%.
@@SprayJones Thx again for sharing your knowledge !
I'm going to pursue this route with my local spray foam contractor for my new House right away, as I'm now at "Lock up" stage with just Ice & Snow peel and stick on the Plywood sheeted Roof currently, the Hot Roof system seems the way to go from here whether I use Fibreglass Shingles or Metal as a final ?
Thx again !
@ 14.40 that blocking here in the states is required anyway for firestop and air barrier.
Bravo what a series. Im sold... Just wish you were closer to come and do my place!
Thanks
Amazing videos J. It occurred to me that either a solar (or other) intermittent electrical heating system, or blowing warm-air (only during times of snow accumulation) would remove ice in the valleys after snowstorms. It's a challenge and probably expensive if not planned for, but if planned-in early-on I don't see how it wouldn't be a good idea.
Interesting!
A piece of 2x lumber has a relatively low thermal mass. Once the sun goes down, those top chords or rafters release their stored thermal energy very quick. If those frost melt lines are there in the morning, you are 100% witnessing thermal bridging and heat loss from the interior
Please watch the video on frost lines on the roof and read the pinned comment..
@@SprayJones huh? The pinned comment said the same thing that I said in my comment .....
Im planning on doing the following with my roof 5:12pitch :
1. Roof truss
2. 2x4 furring strips 12 o.c.
3. 2in XPS foam
4. Elastomere type of roof membrane
5. Metal roofing.
When the spray foam comes in and fills in from the inside, the foam can go around the roof truss. Kind of like pole barn walls. I think there wouldnt be any lines on it because of the XPS foam and the 2x4 is what adds to the rigidity (i wouldnt trust just xps foam nailed onto the trusses).
Also are you familiar with airmetric soya hfo closed cell foam? Multiple contractors in the area are switching to it due it being more "bio"
Thoughts?
P.s. loved this series and the content. Very educational and has helped me not only be convinced that spray foam is the way to go but also that its the only way to do things right.
1. Have your design reviewed by someone that will be knowledgeable and responsible for sealing it.
2. Demilec / Huntsman makes an amazing product. Bio reasons are rubbish. They switch due to cost, tech specs and availability. Allocation and shortages are a big issue until Spring is over right now.
3. Thank you for watching.
Thanks for the videos. I am about to start building our home. IMHO it would be helpful to include relative price comparisons (e.g. open cell is 100% more than fiberglass batt and closed cell is 50% more than open cell). Secondly, why is the price for closed-cell foam so much greater than for open-cell foam? Both foams require spray gear and the same personnel? I would like to use closed cell but when the quotes came back I was surprised.
Thank You for all the time that you spent putting this information together. In a way the average person can understand.
My pleasure!
Your comment about using other attic insulation to minimize sound transfer from apartment to apartment made me wonder how well spray foam does in sound deadening exterior walls.
I will have a video on that comparing open and closed cell for just that.
I learned so much with the four part series, thank you!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent series and just perfect timing for me to watch as my house is getting closed-cell foam spray to my cathedral ceiling without venting! The information provided put my mind at ease. I am the type to check every inch of my house to make sure everything is done correctly, but then again I belive the devil is in the detail. I'm actually renting a thermal camera to check that the insulation was applied evenlly. ; )
Sounds great!
Im concerned how spray foam will be effectively applied in my case with having a 4/12 pitch. Especially the tight corners towards the soffit. Area.
Watch the 4 part series. The drywall is down, we can see where we are spraying with no issues.
Great vid. I'm thinking of spraying my self with on the shelf kits. I have cathedral camp and I wonder if I can spray direct on the plywood roof or I need an are space between the plywood and the close cell foam? thanks
Amazing! Your videos are really informative!
Glad you think so!
Thanks for putting these videos together and sharing. It's helping a lot of us. Interior walls are spayed with 3" of closed cell so that is a vapor barrier from in to out, correct? House wrap is still used for exterior water moving from out to in, correct?
All the data on the closed cell is covered already in my vapor barrier video.
House wrap is for exterior drainage plane and keeping the foam from bonding to the metal. It takes the place of sheathing.
Awesome and informative as always. I screenshot that report to shut my friend down that’s anti foam.
Maybe building dept will start getting with the program
Great idea
I have heard from multiple contractors that by using spray foam, the heat will cause the shingles to deteriorate quicker unless they are designed for the use with spray foam. Some roofing contractors will not warantee thier work if there is spray foam applied before hand. This is giving me mixed feelings about applying spray foam. We only have a ridge vent for ventilation as our home is limestone built in 1819.
Go watch the shingle life and SPF video.
Another interesting video. Do you have one showing insulating an attic floor? Yes, I know it’s not ideal.
Unfortunately not
I watched all 4 videos full length!
Great! You and me both.
Thanks a lot for your time and effort. Very informative and you took all of us to a new level
Glad it was helpful!
Good morning, I have enjoyed watching your videos. They are very educational.
Question, Can spray foam be sprayed on the ground before concrete is layer. Basement or garage floor
Yes, I have videos on that. Look at the playlists.
By watching many of your video"s I can assume by lessening the building materials could help pay for the foam since the foam has such tenacity and rigidity to the walls. By building with 2x4's single plate 3" foam, no noggins and styro sheathing should reduce cost a substantial percent.
Correct. Very correct
Thank you for all of these videos. Very helpful. Any thoughts on what I can do to the underside/floor of my new cottage build? It is going to built on helical piles because of the clay content but would like to somehow keep the water/drain lines from freezing etc...and to keep the flooring warm. Keeping critters out as well would be a bonus. This is going to be a 4 season cottage. Maybe just spray foam the inside of any skirting I use to close out the bottom of the cottage? It is on a slope so it will go from 6" to the ground at the back to about 50" to the other end (towards the water/lake). Would like to try and keep that space underneath the cottage warmish!
Thoughts? Thanks
It is being built in Gatineau QC so def could weather and lots of snow.
Build a box that is insulted and heated, place everything else inside the warm box.
@@SprayJones So essentially I will box in the entire underside of the cottage and keep it heated :) Might use some foil/bubble wrap insulation on the inside of the "box". Thanks
Really interesting - can you spray directly onto the under roof breathable membrane? I don't have chipboard and shingles, I have tiles, a breathable membrane then the wooden joists.
Yes most of the time you can.
Good job, I learned. Have you heard of or have had someone use Aerobarrier to finish up sealing an airtight house? If so how was it.
No.
I have seen in only on internet. It is a gimick to me. We have to hand-caulk all the seams and visual everything. Plus our method can be done while trades are coming in and out.
Sprayers and tips plug up....
Sometimes grunt work is still the best way...hand applied.
I'm looking at closed cell foam for roof on new residential construction. Typical roof pitch. 3 or 4/12. Future plan includes full roof top solar installation. Can you comment on considerations for roof penetration, post build, for solar track anchoring?
They need to be water-tight to the outside and have no bearing on the SPF from the inside.
You should be able to install the penetration and then get it very wet, with NO water coming inside.
How much closed cell spray foam should you have behind ductwork that is inside roof rafters for a cathedral vaulted ceiling so you don’t have heat penetration through the roof showing melt lines?
Watch the video on roof lines where the physics are explained as to what that phenom is. It can't be removed...
If you were steel roof trusses, how would you spray the ceiling joist part of the truss? The thermal transfer of the steel would be high.
The steel must be embedded. Usually they have a flange to the outside and that is buried in the SPF.
Great series! 👍 And I got out of school early to boot! LOL!
Thanks for the feedback.
Great videos. Thanks. Quick question. Can you spray 2" foam on the bottom of the roof deck and then add blown in on top of the ceiling for more R value if needed or wanted? Also what about 2" foam for the roof and batts for the walls? With no attic ventilation for both questions? Thanks
No, I do not approve of hybrid systems. Spend the money and go with one system.
I cover how to beat the higher R values game in video 2 and 3.
We have a cathedral ceiling, no attic, spray foamed with a metal roof on a 13 year old home. Screws are rusting on the underside of the decking and it appears that moisture is coming from underneath the decking and is now rotting out the decking. Any suggestions?
Not a roofer...... but lift up the metal and lay down a membrane to be a drainage protection for the wood.
@@SprayJones
Is there any chance moisture can be coming up through the ceiling and penetrating the foam to the screws on the underside of the sheeting?
@@BeckyHoops-w8p Open or closed cell? What state are you in?
Fantastic series
Glad you enjoyed it
Greetings from Ireland. I Love the videos. Delivering the information in a very easy to listen professional format. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Hello Ireland. Was there for 1 week in Aug of 2002.
When choosing to spray foam the underside of the roof deck as a remodel project must all of the old roof vents be removed and then the roof patched where the vents were removed?
No. Just block from inside and spray over.
What process, tools and possibly chemicals are used to remove spray foam from between/on the rafters/sheathing?
Knives, saws, pry bars, floor scraper.
Score the foam into pieces, then ram a pry bar behind and break a piece free, then get a 2 or 3 inch wide trim removal bar in and start prying it loose.
Does this method work with open cell spray foam?
Yes
Hi Mike, fan for over a year. Quick question: I’m trying to figure out if you can spray foam brick construction from the inside. Have you addressed that in any videos? I can’t find it if you have. My understanding is that bricks need to move and you may need a material between the brick and the spray foam. Thoughts? Thank you!
That is the next video coming up. Yes you can spray the bricks from the inside.
Don't suppose you'd drive down to Ontario to help foam the passive house I'm going to build? 😁
Nope.
Hey mike are you having supply issues as far as getting NCFI or BASF in Canada? I have been spraying 8 years. Here in the USA they are saying we have no product or very limited product, raising the price 7% on a set of foam.
Yes. Price increases and allocations.
For professional fees; are you available to consult with spray foam applications, in complex roof structures? No on site visit but be available for paid Zoom meetings?
No. I do not consult on that which we are not going to spray. Have no insurance for that or real desire.
@@SprayJones OK. Wish you could do my work in WA State.
Apologies,
It occurred to me that my whole concern with a vapor port was something that was discussed by a number of people when using OPEN CELL 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Ok, well you are more educated now, so all is better.
Oh ya ...
Closed soffits as per fire code and we have soffit lights
How do we get the codes changed??
Blackmail.
@4:56. .... property stated, " as the sun rotates around in the sky". The earth is flat, and the sun rotates around the face of the earth.
Another roof in OSB. I just don't trust OSB
That's fine. Use plywood.
@@SprayJones are there any new OSB technologies? I used it once on my cabin and it got soaked. I had to remove everything and dry it before I put up plywood.
Then I see new subdivisions using OSB and I scratch my head. At least plywood is more forgiving and structural, right?
@@truckerdaddy-akajohninqueb4793 Both are acceptable. We prefer osb because it can swell and then return to its previous shape. Plywood delaminates and never returns. Osb is also much lighter/easier to handle!
@@cooper8318 my experience with my cabin was once it got wet, vertically, it didn't dry and turned to mush. If you buy D-grade plywood, it delaminates. I didn't. I used good plywood on all exterior walls. I tried to go cheap on one wall and it was a disaster.
No one uses OSB on roofs. Why? Disasterous.
You can avoid this don't buy a house with a bunch of peaks and valleys these crazy rooflines are nothing but a headache I won't buy one only a simple low pitched peak or hip roof other than that I'll pass
Ok.... My wife says "yes ! this is the one!"