Awesome discussion. I will be straying a portion of my house in the coming weeks.(removed all of my fiberglass that I could get) Thank you giving lots of detail and easy to follow audio with your slides. I had a small addition strayed 15 yrs ago and the same installer is doing it again. Note from my experience. I built my house in 1999 all fiberglass - small house little at a time I added small two bedrooms (2 stories) with insulated foam blocks (legos with concrete) in 2002 - Comparing the insulated foam block to my spray foam ( spray foamed another addition in 2005) - hands down spray foam has caused zero issues. i used an early version of Amvic ICF's Ive learned a ton from watching many of your videos even though I completely trust the installer who has been doing spray foam for well over 20 years. Your customers are lucky to have someone like yourself who has their back. Thanks again for making very informative videos.
You are a godsend Mike to the consumers out here who want and need to be educated. I was in construction for over 30 years and have learned a lot just by listening and when possible looking over the shoulder and can tell when a job is being done correctly just by the number of shoulders I've looked over. You've opened my eyes to possibilities no one seems to have a clue about as they stuck in the 90s still heheh. Keep it coming.
I always invite my customers into my spray rig to show them how it works and what they’re spending all that money on. They always appreciate the knowledge and usually comforts their anxiety issues about the product I am applying in their homes
I’m an hvac tech and there’s a home that is spray foamed and it’s a new home and ever since the homeowners moved in they have been smelling something weird and lots of pink bacteria build up in bathroom sinks. They are clean people too.
Hey Mike Thanks for another well articulated video. We have been trying to hammer these points to our clients for years along with other things that need to be done in an the application process. Please keep up the videos it helps a lot in the education of customers when they talk to contractors.
I want to start by saying I believe you are well informed and doing your best to inform others. You introduce the topic saying that incorrect language is being used. That is not true. Off-gassing is shorthand for volatile organic compound emission and the term is used in the CAN/ULC documents you are showing for testing standards.
Excellent video, thank you! On average how long would you expect no smell to be experienced after installation? If I may get your thoughts on one other question...its imperative that A and B are combined in a 1:1 by volume. Ideal substrate conditions as well as environmental conditions are also very important. What seems to be less important (and probably much less) is the proportioner. The standards make no mention or recommendation on which machine is used and frankly if the chemicals are mixed correctly the foam itself is unable to tell what mixed it. Getting to my question...doesn't a more expensive proportioner really only result in conveniences (such as off-ratio warning, temp control, speed, etc) and perhaps add to the artistic outcome (asthetic) of the foam (smoother surface, easier to achieve desired lift height, etc)? I'll concede that an expensive machine seems to atomize and mix better than a less or older machine. However, it seems like the chemistry tolerance is wide enough to allow for less efficient mixing by an inferior machine and still result in a favorable outcome. Thoughts? Thanks again!!!
Hello Mr Jones i am doing some resurch on spray foam. I am in North Carolina and i do HVAC work. one of our customers called us about two month's ago complaining about a smell in her house. what she described sounded like dirty sock syndrome. When we arrived we noticed she had the crawl space encapsulated and spray foam on the block walls. we did our check on everything HVAC related. in the process I found mold on the floor joyce from a bathroom leak they had a year or two earlier. this was supposed to be handled by the company that did the crawl space. I was out again today due to the smell getting stronger. when I opened the crawl door it was a strong odor, not 100% how to describe the smell . after about 15-30 min of being under the house, I started getting a headache. i have been to a lot of houses with encapsulated crawl spaces but this is the first with spray foam and having the smell. i am going to recommend they have some testing done. Any other ideas? anything is appriciated.
You need to get to the source of the odor. Could be mold, ground water, many things. Foam does not usually smell like socks but water-related issues sure will. Get the data first, then they can attack the problem properly.
I don't like the idea of fiberglass fibers floating around my house and never have. I work on houses and have never liked fiberglass insulation. It's like Tweefer in the way that it's probably just as bad as asbestos in the long run, for your lungs, but it's not the banned one so they can still sell it.... if you smell what I'm toking. The house we recently bought had fiberglass stuffed in between the joists. It's really good at holding moisture :) I ripped it all out and sealed the crawlspace and added a vent fan. I'm really just commenting on your channel to help it out. Good day sir
Excellent information! I'm getting ready to have my new 30x50 shop sprayed and this gives me the basis for numerous questions to ask my installer. Well done, Mike!
I have the same problem as a few others here. I had my attic spray foamed with open cell a year ago and it still smells like the day it was done. He closed up entire attic and vent, sprayed close the attic roof fan and the gable walls. With warm and hot weather it is unbearable. The attic turned into a hot sauna and the moisture was so bad that the paint off the kitchen ceiling was being pulled away in sheets just like wallpaper by my kitchen renovation guy and I took a video of it. The kitchen reno got worse. So much moisture coming down from the attic into the drywall, we had to remove it all in the kitchen and dinning room. We thought at least it would air out but no it didn't. It was recommended to remove the foam with the roof deck. I'm looking at replacing the roof!
I was going to say didn't you already cover this, but it was the video on burning foam. I say foam is only dangerous when closed cell is applied and you just stand beside the application process without a mask.
So company’s have a warranty? Like let’s say it didn’t cure right and it keeps off gassing…how does the company fix it? Do they rip the whole roof off??
I live in the tropical part of Australia and I enjoy listening to your podcasts. No one spray foams homes within a 1000 miles. However I'm very keen to bring a company up to do my new build house. Part of the reason for my interest is the house is in a cyclone area and the foam adds strength. With climate change we will get more and stronger. How about a podcast on how spray foam strengthens a building.
I am looking at ideas for 2022. Podcasts require a lot of time to put out the content, and I want to make sure I have 1 year worth of content before starting - depending on frequency of episodes. Thanks for watching down under.
Bravisimo mr. Spray Jones, that presentation just convinced me to go ahead with my roof project. My wife is sensitive to voc's, but I'm going to have the installer let us do a walk thru on one of there projects before signing up. And will have them comment and of course watch this vid.
I saw a special on TV where the foam made the family sick and they ultimately had to have it all removed. Even after that, the fumes were still there and they never could move back in. Apparently some of them were hyper-sensitive to chemicals. I believe they had to sell the house.
What can cause that? inappropriate mixing ratios or catalyst used? We've thought about spray foaming a few walls in the house, mainly for noise reduction, but after seeing that special on TV (60 min or something; can't recall) we opted not to do it. My wife is also hyper-sensitive to chemicals to the point where I have to do all of my interior painting projects while she's visiting her family overseas for a month.@@SprayJones
The wheels of progress turn slowly. I observed the first problem with spray foam over fifty years ago and we still don't have a standard or test? What took, or is taking, so long? Thank you for talking about this problem and helping others understand it and getting behind the consumers safety. When I need spray foam again I feel like I'll have to move to Canada and have you do the work!
USA is fragmented. New York will not have Texas telling them what to do. Canadians want authority and rules. Americans hate it. Both have their issues.
So you saying there is not a standard test, and that's all one needs to know that it's on purpose and there are health hazards. Just started to look into this yesterday, but another proof lot of shady things in this world for profit
Thanks for the excellent video. You’re obviously put a lot of work into it. He said it may have to go into a second episode and I kind of hope it does because I got something I’d like you to further explain. On the testing, you mentioned that they take a physical sample of the spray foam in a bag. To me that sounds like it’s testing the chemistry of the product being sprayed. But as you stated the problem starts with a bad installation. And what needs to be tested is the air quality. Not a sample of the foam itself. Because when the guy spraying it into the bag he’s not spraying it into the bag too thick too fast. I’m not sure if the green guard certification actually does air quality testing. That is what I think ultimately needs to be done and they may be doing it
You miss understand. The sample is sprayed and collect and placed into a bag. Taken to the lab whereby the next day the bag is opened, the sample taken out and placed into the chamber described in ULC S774 and the 24 hour test is underway.
I think that is my understanding with the exception I thought it was a sample of what was being sprayed. But my point is the same. If one guy or a team of guys sprays 90% of the sample within specs but one guy does a poor job in a spot no one will see for whatever reason. If the sample is not taken from that expect spot then the test is not indicative of the problem causing area. I have seen lawsuits based on bad application in only a fraction of the home. The home was allegedly uninhabitable. Much like with asbestos’s and lead the air itself needs to be tested.
@@SprayJones Thank you.I just found out that in FL a wall with a high thermal mass like brick or concrete the code for R value is half. Is this true in Canada as well? Engineers were saying a airtight envelope with thermal mass wall system was most energy efficient. But they were also mostly referring to FL climate. Thanks 👍
@@brianlee6849 Thermal mass applies best when there are swings that need to be regulated. So cold at night but hot during the day... store up the heat of day and use it to get through the night. When in long extended periods of not having swings thermal mass is useless and can be a hindrance. Hence good insulation.
@@SprayJones Not saying they were correct because I'm not a expert but they are claiming 50% more efficient with a high thermal mass on the outside with 1" air gap frame insulation inside vs frame with same R value. But they were pointing out that to meet FL code your wall requirements for R value are half. I want the brick exterior for many reasons value, hurricane protection, fire resistant and looks. I was thinking energy efficiency was a extra bonus I still want frame with 3" closed cell foam inside. Thanks
My thoughts in my State is to evaluate vendors, select one, have them apply to an outbuilding that is used for storage, then test results and air quality. If good they come back and do the house.
Mike, I do not know how many times I have run into a job where the problem was as simple as the previous technician just didn't read the friggen label. In 35 years, I'm sure I made a mistake or two- unlike some really great plumbers, I have had a leak or two- but honest observation and thorough testing meant they were my problem and not my clients. Great presentation- I'm not sure how you do it, but it seams you have some way of "highlighting" the important parts- Good on Ya"! On the matter of US testing and standards, these things are usually done state by state- I live in Texas and the only Texas approved product of Canadian origin, with the State Lege or regulation offices, is Lyin' Ted. I don't blame Canada for him, just every now and again, a cropper gets through. Texas may be a bit longer getting those standards, so I'm hoping you might have some ideas how us "unwashed" might get these tests and assurances done. FR
@@SprayJones As usual, you did the work! Paul seems to have a game plan and has got what financial it will take and it sounds like he will be peeling all of the exterior walls as your reprise of "saving' a bad job pointed out. A nightmare even if caught before the sheet rock process is started. I'm beginning to learn how to watch out for this particular bus- awesome! the tip you offered for a supplier in Arlington will be a good beginning. The politics this will take in Texas current "deregulate everything" atmosphere is something I don't want to wait on- self education is my friend! With help, anyway.
Excellent points. Thanks for clearing a lot of air. In summary I would like the sprayer to do 1 inch pass everytime and comeback and add 1 inch after. Willing to pay more for labor and get it right.
It is really not necessary you have to be over double the recommended thickness to start to have an issue. In fact the foam is designed to fair the best at the 2 inch pass mark.
My Coast Guard mandated, fire control training…. Exposed firefighting as a modern day chemistry event. When hot, things change at the molecular level. If they burn, they borrow molecules from other things that are burning to create other hazards that did not exist before. I appreciate your passion and your acceptance of the science of your industry and your faith and character to adhere to the science and it’s absolute, benchmark formulation that is reduced from engineering to a list of instructions that must be followed. Clever. But it’s stuff like that that is keeping it too expensive for me and I’d be foolish to not add that if you restrict the airflow… you gotta get an HVAC engineer involved or you will have air quality issues. More expense. So… the thermos bottle houses you are making are gonna be heated with a candle, but that’s all your gonna be able to afford after all the college kids get paid. For the time being anyway….
Thanks Mike, very informative. Now, what about people like me who have open cell spray form in the house that I have lived in it since 2008. Can I remove a piece of foam that's been installed in my home and have it tested for VOC's? I live in south Louisiana. Can you provide a company for testing samples for VOC's. or, can you suggest a monitoring/testing device to sample the air for VOC's. I guess I can always call a company locally to conduct in-house testing. My reason for asking is because the two air condition air handler in my attic have failed multiple time due to evaporator coil leaking refrigerant. The last times the coils leaked, we replace them with coated coils. Haven't had any more problems. The A/C service company said it a problem with spray foamed homes. The temperature and humidity in the attic typically run about 10 percentage points higher or lower then the living space in my home.
I have not seen that where we live. I think you are getting some BS from HVAC. Watch video 3 & 4 for non-vented roof series where I address humidity levels in attics.
Do you have or will you make a video about a bad installation and all the hassle of removal of product and remediation to bring job to a "green" standard? BTW I am a retired journeyman painter with 45 years in the business. I always did a top notch job strictly because of the horrors of fixing a bad job were too much too deal with. Thanks for your in depth approach - I wish you worked out here on Vancouver Island.
I will probably do some "fix it" videos on dealing with botched jobs at some point. More time is spent avoiding the botched jobs hence what I am doing. Thanks for watching.
Great video! Does this information also apply to injection foam? My installer told us that injection foam is different and that there is no off-gassing or VOCs like there is with spray foam because its a totally different chemical. Is this true? I'm having a hard time finding information that compares spray vs injection foam in terms of safety.
Hi Mike. I live in the US and recently had my bathroom and laundry room spray foamed on the outside walls. It’s been almost 2 weeks and I still have an odor. The company came back and looked at it and said everything looked good. However, there are parts of the foam that started flaking. It’s dropping small pieces of foam onto the floor and it’s no longer a smooth surface. What are my options? I don’t want to get sick but the company said it’s fine. Can I just hang some vapor barrier? Do you recommend sealing it first? Or do I have to remove it? How do I know? I appreciate any help I can get. Thank you! Erin
Know what brand of SPF they installed? If so I would get in contact with the manufacturer and send pics of what you are seeing. Start there. Inform the install company you have concerns and want to know more..
One consideration, what are the total VOC emissions of 100 cubic feet of Spray foam, from manufacturing to installation vs the VOC emissions of producing the same amount of other insulation. Example, wool insulation, the VOC’s given off by sheep. The environmental impact of hemp production, and the effects of fibreglass on the environment for the same amount of insulation?
That has been done by BASF in their total life-cycle analysis reports. Fiberglass & Rock Wool will not even be considered. By the time you melt the raw material for making it you have consumed more energy than the product can save in it's life-time.
Excellent presentation of information, as usual. Thank-you! In another video of yours (sorry, I don't recall which one) I believe you made a comment about the R value of foam decreasing slightly over time...which got me thinking with regard to this VOC topic. Is there a one time or ongoing 'settling' of the foam, and, in light of the comment in this video about the closed cells being a vacuum, is there any risk of VOCs being released over time if there is a settling or aging event? (when/if that vacuum is broken). Thank-you.
Good question! The answer is no. The diluting of the blowing agent happens quickly within the time of application, however the VOC test has already shown that within 24 hours there is 0 detectable traces. The VOC test does continue past the 24 hours as shown in the green guard certification the values are rated for a while. Hence why the LTTR rating is all that is to be listed and used for thermal ratings.
Question can you spray 2” closed cell then apply an open cell on top of that to reach the necessary R-value? We need a R-50 which would be fairly expensive with closed cell.
You can. But this opens up all sorts of other issues. I assume this is a roof problem. I will be addressing this code issue in the 4 part series on roofs starting next Tuesday.
Hey Spray Jones thank you for putting this out! Curious how open cell vs closed cell spray foam affects these findings? You mention that in closed cell because the cells are essentially a vacuum it prevents future release of VOCs, but what about open cell SPF? Reason I ask is because open cell tends to be more popular in my area (Florida, US), because it’s water permeable and often sprayed on the underside of roof decks, so you’ll notice if you have a roof leak sooner than you will with closed cell. Any thoughts on toxicity/ release of VOCs with open cell?
Both are very different. If something is not mixed correctly it is going to smell. Open cell uses water to blow it open, so yes there is no diminishing value on insulation values. VOC test is just that, the VOC within 24 hours.
How convenient that you uploaded this today. I just asked the two Spray-foam installers I'm talking to this week about this. I didn't get a clear answer, so maybe you can help. I have several fish tanks, most of which are too big to move. Do you have any experience with risk to aquariums from the VOC emissions? One of the installers said I should "just throw a tarp over it, but that [he] isn't liable for it..." so that made me uncomfortable.
I recently had two of our interior walls foam insulated and two weeks later there's still a crazy plastic-like smell. Is that normal? I called the insulation company and they indicated it should go away after a day. When I indicated it didn't, they haven't called me back. I'm not sure what to do. It's my baby girls room and I'm worried I'll never feel comfortable putting her back in that room. Is the only solution to rip the walls open?
@@SprayJones I'm sad to think we're going to have to completely rip her bedroom walls completely out but, I think that may be our healthiest solution in the long run. I'm not sure if it's open or closed. We used usainsulation.net.
Are VOC’s primarily an issue with closed cell foam? It seems that open cell installs are not as concerned about hitting a certain depth….basically trying to fill the cavity.
So there isn't anything that can be done here in the US now before or after the spraying of foam correct? What can be done to prevent being stuck with spray foam that is releasing VOC's in the US. Knowing all this makes me pessimistic about ensuring that I hire someone that will spray the foam in a way where i don't need to worry about the safety of the foam and my family's health.
Demilec, BASF, NCFI are 3 examples of companies that make solid and safe products that you can trust. It then comes down to getting a good installer, which it the real key to it. So good product and good installer = excellent job that is safe for generations. No different from electrical wiring or HVAC.
I am getting my whole house spray foamed and the 2nd floor has just been finished. If 24hrs is the timeframe for occupancy, would that mean i cannot work unprotected within that 24hour period? I smell off gassing but its not extreme. Product used was Grizzly Gold MD SPF.
Very well explained Mike here in the uk I have noticed that since my particular resin was changed( now hfo) I use more product taking into consideration temperatures of structure and ambiance temperature this normal now ?
Yes. HFO is a difficult chemistry. Only the top chemists will be making a great product now. In the past it was easier. Keep playing with settings. AND UP YOUR PRICE.
Thanks for the video. Do you think that spraying another inch of foam over stinky foam could solve the smell? Currently in that exact situation, have lots of room for more so they opted to spray another layer but I'm skeptical it'll work.
Well.... the reason it stinks is that something is wrong with the chemistry from how it is designed to be installed. Encapsulation is an ify idea since it does not go to the root of the issue at hand.
@@SprayJones Thanks for the response. 4 days later I can confirm it did not work. Company is now trying to claim the smell is wooden 2x4s on the walls and "if I want" I could poly the walls to stop the smell. Not doing that. Now in contact with the manufacturer's QA certification team. Wish me luck!
Normally the stove will have an adapter collar that allows insulation to come in contact with it and then it contacts the hot flue pipe. We only spray to where it is supposed to and can go..
Hey Mike when Demilec closed cell is sprayed to thick to quick does it increase the voc to danger levels?Will the smell dissipate with time? And what do you think my chances of getting the big company I hired to repair the part of my crawl space they screwed up are? Thanks!
How Water Proof is close cell? So if your house was to flood, would you have to remove it and let things dry around it and have it re-sprayed? or would the water not penetrate and reapplying wouldn't be necessary?
There is a fairly easy test, if you know someone with asthma. make sure you clean the house with minimal scented products and have someone with asthma walk through, if there are any fumes from the foam that are harmful they will get an asthma attack. obviously they would need to have their puffer ready and a rapid egress from the house.
Do you have a link to the chart you show that gives the insulation performance at different CSF thickness levels? It was something like at 1" you hold 89% of your heat and at 2" 93% and so on, I was curious to know what the delta was in the example after thinking about it. Thanks
Not yet. I have asked my web site ppl to build a resources page where I can upload those to for review. So it will be coming and then I can populate the info for your view.
@@SprayJones Thanks, I found the chart in your video "Is 1" enough?" Do you remember what delta they used or do you know if it changes much with a larger delta? I live in South Dakota, we see 100F summer all the way to -32F winter temps.
Mike: I have a double wide mobile home that has a block wall under it for looks. Between the floor and the top of the block is a gap and the air comes thru and in the winter our floors are freezing cold. Question. #1 i want to appply spray foam to the underside of the home and the bock wall under the house. #2. I want to do it myself buying the kits at the box store is this doable or would i have water or moisture issues. Thank you Roy.
Video request: Is steel frame + closed cell spray foam the perfect DIY house design for an indestructible, insulated, and everlasting home? I was looking into ICFs initially for my dream home due to their strength and longevity, but after watching a series of a couple DIYing theirs in Washington (US), I realized what an absolute nightmare of ,necessary engineering approval, logistics, material density, and wooden barricading and boarding it required. I also realized the only advantage it seemed to have over steel frame is a continuous insulating barrier created by the concrete so there's no air-leaks, but after watching your videos, spray foam over the walls and roofs probably surpasses it. Your channel touched on DIY construction a bit and I think that's part of the audience - so video idea!
@@SprayJones Aw yiss. And thanks for the detailed explanation of low-voc emittance and the weird smell topic. I said it before but you might as well seek an honorary degree as a materials scientist.
If the foam was in fact sprayed too thick maybe, as i can still smell it 3 months after a new house roof deck was sprayed with open cell and the Florida heat makes it smell. Will the foam eventually gas off? What's the expected time frame? The installer claims to have all new equipment etc and it was sprayed during good weather. He brought 2 samples, one was a year old and one a day old. The one year old sample was all yellow and practically had no smell to it. The house was ventilated without the drywall for 2 months but now it almost feels that the paint and the drywall has that sweet and bitter smell to it
Too thick too quick only applies to closed cell. The chemistry for open cell has no upper limit on application thickness. You can simply remove a small chunk of the foam, leave it be for a day and come back to it and see if it smells. No odor then you know the foam is not your source rate. Once this gets into your head that something may be off you can start "smelling" things all the time. Especially if you are hyper sensitive. I find people will sometimes blame construction odors on the SPF, especially: drywall mud, paint, primers, glues, sealants, on and on. Drywall mud has a sour smell to it when it is curing and even for a while afterwards. So it may not even be the SPF you are smelling.
@@SprayJones definitely SPF, the house sat with open windows and doors for 2 months. Now that the drywall is up and the temperatures are in the 90s as well as the high humidity, the smell has intensified. Even with AC running and 2 exhaust fans in the attic. Just wandering what could have gone wrong with the install. They used UPC 500 foam and it’s a large installer, licensed and all. The AC makes the smell even worse as it sits in the attic. The house is unlivable I think at this point, a brand new construction, on a saltwater canal, not sure what to do next. If what I is MDI then this must be a huge issue I’m guessing. Based on your video, which is excellent, if the chemistry was somehow changed due to bad application, the smell will never disappear sounds like.
@@drchamp1902 Hi Dr Champ, I have exactly the same issue and we’ve added ventilators in the attic. It hasn’t improved, and the AC makes it worse. Have you figured out a solution for it?
@@walidphul6048 I’ve installed air purifier in the ac unit, 3 UV lights, sealed the handler with tape and silicone, it feels better now, 15 months later. However, I can still smell it, it’s our second home so I’m only there once a month or so for a week. I had the manufacturer pay for it though. There is definitely an issue with this industry and foam, no one with skin in the game is honest about it, the lobby is too strong, even the lawyers don’t want to deal with this. I had a company test air for VOC, outside showed 0.3 inside and and all attic exhaust vents 0.6, double the outside. That was done prior to the purification. At this point I’ll just live with it, maybe not for long:) I’m convinced the product is pure poison and should not be used inside living spaces. It a shame that I’ve designed and built this house using the best materials and modern technology. However, the foam situation is very unfortunate, the manufacturer has offered to remove it but since my attic is unvented, I would be required to redesign the entire roof system and redo energy calcs and probably reduce AC and a bunch of other stuff.
I know they recommend customers not being inside for 24 hours at least from time of application. What is the recommendation on installing this in a persons workplace while they are working below the installation. Should workplaces ensure their employees aren’t on site during application?
I am in the United States and am going to get spray foam our new house. Do you think that we should have a company come out and check the air to make sure it is not releasing VOCs?
Any issues with the smell? My new house is now unlivable, open cell UPC 500 foam under the roof deck, polyglass MTS underlayment and a standing seam metal roof. With hot and humid weather the smell inside the house is very strong, unbearable
Man, I hope you are willing to react to my question. Im a Carpenter for like 27 years heren in Holland and I want to have the closed cell spray foam in my 100 year ons new house. But it seems, here in Holland are not many companies who use spray foam. And thats why, i guess, why spray foam has such a bad name due to health issues people experiencing after isolating their home with spray foam. Ive seen your video's. Well some. And ik know youre a serious proffesional who knows what he does. Man i love the closed spray foam, bit man im so worried for the health fory kids and myself. Can you give me a tip where to look at and who to hire here in the netherlands? Ik you can even samen something about that. Big If. And ive seen your video about the 5 sorts of people you schould avoid. But, yeah... I still dont know.
You are a world away from me... but BASF is a German company and has a large European presence, so start searching BASF and Walltite spray foam in your areas and see what comes up.
Your other business should be as a consultant for other new spray foam companies. Education and training for the employees. Or at least author a comprehensive set of training and educational materials for sale as a package. I'm sure between Canada and the USA you could make a fortune.
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You’re a true professional and someone that clearly takes pride in their job well done!
Thank you.
Awesome discussion. I will be straying a portion of my house in the coming weeks.(removed all of my fiberglass that I could get) Thank you giving lots of detail and easy to follow audio with your slides. I had a small addition strayed 15 yrs ago and the same installer is doing it again. Note from my experience. I built my house in 1999 all fiberglass - small house little at a time I added small two bedrooms (2 stories) with insulated foam blocks (legos with concrete) in 2002 - Comparing the insulated foam block to my spray foam ( spray foamed another addition in 2005) - hands down spray foam has caused zero issues. i used an early version of Amvic ICF's Ive learned a ton from watching many of your videos even though I completely trust the installer who has been doing spray foam for well over 20 years. Your customers are lucky to have someone like yourself who has their back. Thanks again for making very informative videos.
Thanks for the feedback
You are a godsend Mike to the consumers out here who want and need to be educated. I was in construction for over 30 years and have learned a lot just by listening and when possible looking over the shoulder and can tell when a job is being done correctly just by the number of shoulders I've looked over. You've opened my eyes to possibilities no one seems to have a clue about as they stuck in the 90s still heheh. Keep it coming.
Thank you John.
Yes God sent us.
This video made me feel like I was back in school, like a good instructional video should! Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Lol
I always invite my customers into my spray rig to show them how it works and what they’re spending all that money on. They always appreciate the knowledge and usually comforts their anxiety issues about the product I am applying in their homes
That's fine. We do not. Been stabbed in the back too many times.
@@bucsanders7861 Oh, yah... go hire the next guy. You can see the outside.
@@bucsanders7861 Thank you for leaving.
I’m an hvac tech and there’s a home that is spray foamed and it’s a new home and ever since the homeowners moved in they have been smelling something weird and lots of pink bacteria build up in bathroom sinks. They are clean people too.
Hey Mike
Thanks for another well articulated video. We have been trying to hammer these points to our clients for years along with other things that need to be done in an the application process.
Please keep up the videos it helps a lot in the education of customers when they talk to contractors.
Glad it was helpful!
I want to start by saying I believe you are well informed and doing your best to inform others. You introduce the topic saying that incorrect language is being used. That is not true. Off-gassing is shorthand for volatile organic compound emission and the term is used in the CAN/ULC documents you are showing for testing standards.
What are you doing here?? I spoke with the chemists at BASF and that was the first correction that they told me about.
Excellent video, thank you! On average how long would you expect no smell to be experienced after installation? If I may get your thoughts on one other question...its imperative that A and B are combined in a 1:1 by volume. Ideal substrate conditions as well as environmental conditions are also very important. What seems to be less important (and probably much less) is the proportioner. The standards make no mention or recommendation on which machine is used and frankly if the chemicals are mixed correctly the foam itself is unable to tell what mixed it. Getting to my question...doesn't a more expensive proportioner really only result in conveniences (such as off-ratio warning, temp control, speed, etc) and perhaps add to the artistic outcome (asthetic) of the foam (smoother surface, easier to achieve desired lift height, etc)? I'll concede that an expensive machine seems to atomize and mix better than a less or older machine. However, it seems like the chemistry tolerance is wide enough to allow for less efficient mixing by an inferior machine and still result in a favorable outcome. Thoughts? Thanks again!!!
Hello Mr Jones i am doing some resurch on spray foam. I am in North Carolina and i do HVAC work. one of our customers called us about two month's ago complaining about a smell in her house. what she described sounded like dirty sock syndrome. When we arrived we noticed she had the crawl space encapsulated and spray foam on the block walls. we did our check on everything HVAC related. in the process I found mold on the floor joyce from a bathroom leak they had a year or two earlier. this was supposed to be handled by the company that did the crawl space. I was out again today due to the smell getting stronger. when I opened the crawl door it was a strong odor, not 100% how to describe the smell . after about 15-30 min of being under the house, I started getting a headache. i have been to a lot of houses with encapsulated crawl spaces but this is the first with spray foam and having the smell. i am going to recommend they have some testing done. Any other ideas? anything is appriciated.
You need to get to the source of the odor. Could be mold, ground water, many things. Foam does not usually smell like socks but water-related issues sure will.
Get the data first, then they can attack the problem properly.
I don't like the idea of fiberglass fibers floating around my house and never have. I work on houses and have never liked fiberglass insulation. It's like Tweefer in the way that it's probably just as bad as asbestos in the long run, for your lungs, but it's not the banned one so they can still sell it.... if you smell what I'm toking. The house we recently bought had fiberglass stuffed in between the joists. It's really good at holding moisture :) I ripped it all out and sealed the crawlspace and added a vent fan. I'm really just commenting on your channel to help it out. Good day sir
Thanks so much for all the leg work and the diagram was great!
You're welcome!
This video was what I was looking for an I’m in the US also !! Thanks Pal your doing a great job
Glad I could help
Had done my whole basement 5 years ago. This summer, spraying my main floor for a big reno.
Good. Thanks for watching.
Keep the information coming best to keep people informed.
👍👍
Will do!
Excellent information! I'm getting ready to have my new 30x50 shop sprayed and this gives me the basis for numerous questions to ask my installer. Well done, Mike!
Glad it was helpful!
I have the same problem as a few others here. I had my attic spray foamed with open cell a year ago and it still smells like the day it was done. He closed up entire attic and vent, sprayed close the attic roof fan and the gable walls. With warm and hot weather it is unbearable. The attic turned into a hot sauna and the moisture was so bad that the paint off the kitchen ceiling was being pulled away in sheets just like wallpaper by my kitchen renovation guy and I took a video of it. The kitchen reno got worse. So much moisture coming down from the attic into the drywall, we had to remove it all in the kitchen and dinning room. We thought at least it would air out but no it didn't. It was recommended to remove the foam with the roof deck. I'm looking at replacing the roof!
There is a lot going on there. You need some help in your corner.
I was going to say didn't you already cover this, but it was the video on burning foam. I say foam is only dangerous when closed cell is applied and you just stand beside the application process without a mask.
Correct.
So company’s have a warranty? Like let’s say it didn’t cure right and it keeps off gassing…how does the company fix it? Do they rip the whole roof off??
I live in the tropical part of Australia and I enjoy listening to your podcasts. No one spray foams homes within a 1000 miles. However I'm very keen to bring a company up to do my new build house. Part of the reason for my interest is the house is in a cyclone area and the foam adds strength. With climate change we will get more and stronger. How about a podcast on how spray foam strengthens a building.
I am looking at ideas for 2022. Podcasts require a lot of time to put out the content, and I want to make sure I have 1 year worth of content before starting - depending on frequency of episodes.
Thanks for watching down under.
Bravo!!!! Addressed so many questions I've had for over a decade... Here to you elevating the trade!!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Bravisimo mr. Spray Jones, that presentation just convinced me to go ahead with my roof project. My wife is sensitive to voc's, but I'm going to have the installer let us do a walk thru on one of there projects before signing up. And will have them comment and of course watch this vid.
Glad I could help
I saw a special on TV where the foam made the family sick and they ultimately had to have it all removed. Even after that, the fumes were still there and they never could move back in. Apparently some of them were hyper-sensitive to chemicals. I believe they had to sell the house.
Sprayed wrong. Total failure on the installer's part.
What can cause that? inappropriate mixing ratios or catalyst used? We've thought about spray foaming a few walls in the house, mainly for noise reduction, but after seeing that special on TV (60 min or something; can't recall) we opted not to do it. My wife is also hyper-sensitive to chemicals to the point where I have to do all of my interior painting projects while she's visiting her family overseas for a month.@@SprayJones
The wheels of progress turn slowly. I observed the first problem with spray foam over fifty years ago and we still don't have a standard or test? What took, or is taking, so long? Thank you for talking about this problem and helping others understand it and getting behind the consumers safety. When I need spray foam again I feel like I'll have to move to Canada and have you do the work!
USA is fragmented. New York will not have Texas telling them what to do.
Canadians want authority and rules. Americans hate it.
Both have their issues.
So you saying there is not a standard test, and that's all one needs to know that it's on purpose and there are health hazards. Just started to look into this yesterday, but another proof lot of shady things in this world for profit
Thanks for the excellent video. You’re obviously put a lot of work into it. He said it may have to go into a second episode and I kind of hope it does because I got something I’d like you to further explain. On the testing, you mentioned that they take a physical sample of the spray foam in a bag. To me that sounds like it’s testing the chemistry of the product being sprayed. But as you stated the problem starts with a bad installation. And what needs to be tested is the air quality. Not a sample of the foam itself. Because when the guy spraying it into the bag he’s not spraying it into the bag too thick too fast. I’m not sure if the green guard certification actually does air quality testing. That is what I think ultimately needs to be done and they may be doing it
You miss understand. The sample is sprayed and collect and placed into a bag. Taken to the lab whereby the next day the bag is opened, the sample taken out and placed into the chamber described in ULC S774 and the 24 hour test is underway.
I think that is my understanding with the exception I thought it was a sample of what was being sprayed. But my point is the same. If one guy or a team of guys sprays 90% of the sample within specs but one guy does a poor job in a spot no one will see for whatever reason. If the sample is not taken from that expect spot then the test is not indicative of the problem causing area. I have seen lawsuits based on bad application in only a fraction of the home. The home was allegedly uninhabitable. Much like with asbestos’s and lead the air itself needs to be tested.
Excellent 👍. I was concerned about voc and now I feel better. Thanks for sharing 👍
All good.
Using your comment about air seal in the R value video coming up.
@@SprayJones Thank you.I just found out that in FL a wall with a high thermal mass like brick or concrete the code for R value is half. Is this true in Canada as well? Engineers were saying a airtight envelope with thermal mass wall system was most energy efficient. But they were also mostly referring to FL climate. Thanks 👍
@@brianlee6849 Thermal mass applies best when there are swings that need to be regulated. So cold at night but hot during the day... store up the heat of day and use it to get through the night.
When in long extended periods of not having swings thermal mass is useless and can be a hindrance. Hence good insulation.
@@SprayJones Not saying they were correct because I'm not a expert but they are claiming 50% more efficient with a high thermal mass on the outside with 1" air gap frame insulation inside vs frame with same R value. But they were pointing out that to meet FL code your wall requirements for R value are half. I want the brick exterior for many reasons value, hurricane protection, fire resistant and looks. I was thinking energy efficiency was a extra bonus I still want frame with 3" closed cell foam inside. Thanks
@@brianlee6849 Sounds good. And I was just claiming hat conditions are needed to make thermal mass effective.
My thoughts in my State is to evaluate vendors, select one, have them apply to an outbuilding that is used for storage, then test results and air quality. If good they come back and do the house.
Demilec and NCFI should have lots of info on their products too.
Mike, I do not know how many times I have run into a job where the problem was as simple as the previous technician just didn't read the friggen label. In 35 years, I'm sure I made a mistake or two- unlike some really great plumbers, I have had a leak or two- but honest observation and thorough testing meant they were my problem and not my clients. Great presentation- I'm not sure how you do it, but it seams you have some way of "highlighting" the important parts- Good on Ya"! On the matter of US testing and standards, these things are usually done state by state- I live in Texas and the only Texas approved product of Canadian origin, with the State Lege or regulation offices, is Lyin' Ted. I don't blame Canada for him, just every now and again, a cropper gets through. Texas may be a bit longer getting those standards, so I'm hoping you might have some ideas how us "unwashed" might get these tests and assurances done. FR
Thanks for watching.
@@SprayJones As usual, you did the work! Paul seems to have a game plan and has got what financial it will take and it sounds like he will be peeling all of the exterior walls as your reprise of "saving' a bad job pointed out. A nightmare even if caught before the sheet rock process is started. I'm beginning to learn how to watch out for this particular bus- awesome! the tip you offered for a supplier in Arlington will be a good beginning. The politics this will take in Texas current "deregulate everything" atmosphere is something I don't want to wait on- self education is my friend! With help, anyway.
Excellent points. Thanks for clearing a lot of air. In summary I would like the sprayer to do 1 inch pass everytime and comeback and add 1 inch after. Willing to pay more for labor and get it right.
It is really not necessary you have to be over double the recommended thickness to start to have an issue.
In fact the foam is designed to fair the best at the 2 inch pass mark.
Keep it up! Do you know if the U.S.A. has adopted the method used by Canada as of today? Where might I find that if so?
My Coast Guard mandated, fire control training…. Exposed firefighting as a modern day chemistry event.
When hot, things change at the molecular level. If they burn, they borrow molecules from other things that are burning to create other hazards that did not exist before.
I appreciate your passion and your acceptance of the science of your industry and your faith and character to adhere to the science and it’s absolute, benchmark formulation that is reduced from engineering to a list of instructions that must be followed.
Clever. But it’s stuff like that that is keeping it too expensive for me and I’d be foolish to not add that if you restrict the airflow… you gotta get an HVAC engineer involved or you will have air quality issues.
More expense.
So… the thermos bottle houses you are making are gonna be heated with a candle, but that’s all your gonna be able to afford after all the college kids get paid.
For the time being anyway….
Thanks Mike, very informative. Now, what about people like me who have open cell spray form in the house that I have lived in it since 2008. Can I remove a piece of foam that's been installed in my home and have it tested for VOC's? I live in south Louisiana. Can you provide a company for testing samples for VOC's. or, can you suggest a monitoring/testing device to sample the air for VOC's. I guess I can always call a company locally to conduct in-house testing. My reason for asking is because the two air condition air handler in my attic have failed multiple time due to evaporator coil leaking refrigerant. The last times the coils leaked, we replace them with coated coils. Haven't had any more problems. The A/C service company said it a problem with spray foamed homes. The temperature and humidity in the attic typically run about 10 percentage points higher or lower then the living space in my home.
I have not seen that where we live. I think you are getting some BS from HVAC. Watch video 3 & 4 for non-vented roof series where I address humidity levels in attics.
Do you have or will you make a video about a bad installation and all the hassle of removal of product and remediation to bring job to a "green" standard? BTW I am a retired journeyman painter with 45 years in the business. I always did a top notch job strictly because of the horrors of fixing a bad job were too much too deal with. Thanks for your in depth approach - I wish you worked out here on Vancouver Island.
I will probably do some "fix it" videos on dealing with botched jobs at some point.
More time is spent avoiding the botched jobs hence what I am doing.
Thanks for watching.
Great video! Does this information also apply to injection foam? My installer told us that injection foam is different and that there is no off-gassing or VOCs like there is with spray foam because its a totally different chemical. Is this true? I'm having a hard time finding information that compares spray vs injection foam in terms of safety.
Hi Mike. I live in the US and recently had my bathroom and laundry room spray foamed on the outside walls. It’s been almost 2 weeks and I still have an odor. The company came back and looked at it and said everything looked good. However, there are parts of the foam that started flaking. It’s dropping small pieces of foam onto the floor and it’s no longer a smooth surface. What are my options? I don’t want to get sick but the company said it’s fine. Can I just hang some vapor barrier? Do you recommend sealing it first? Or do I have to remove it? How do I know? I appreciate any help I can get. Thank you! Erin
Know what brand of SPF they installed? If so I would get in contact with the manufacturer and send pics of what you are seeing. Start there.
Inform the install company you have concerns and want to know more..
One consideration, what are the total VOC emissions of 100 cubic feet of Spray foam, from manufacturing to installation vs the VOC emissions of producing the same amount of other insulation. Example, wool insulation, the VOC’s given off by sheep. The environmental impact of hemp production, and the effects of fibreglass on the environment for the same amount of insulation?
That has been done by BASF in their total life-cycle analysis reports.
Fiberglass & Rock Wool will not even be considered. By the time you melt the raw material for making it you have consumed more energy than the product can save in it's life-time.
Excellent presentation of information, as usual. Thank-you! In another video of yours (sorry, I don't recall which one) I believe you made a comment about the R value of foam decreasing slightly over time...which got me thinking with regard to this VOC topic. Is there a one time or ongoing 'settling' of the foam, and, in light of the comment in this video about the closed cells being a vacuum, is there any risk of VOCs being released over time if there is a settling or aging event? (when/if that vacuum is broken). Thank-you.
Good question! The answer is no. The diluting of the blowing agent happens quickly within the time of application, however the VOC test has already shown that within 24 hours there is 0 detectable traces. The VOC test does continue past the 24 hours as shown in the green guard certification the values are rated for a while.
Hence why the LTTR rating is all that is to be listed and used for thermal ratings.
2 inches per pass, how long do you have to wait for the second pass?
The times keep changing. Chemistry is improving.
Question can you spray 2” closed cell then apply an open cell on top of that to reach the necessary R-value? We need a R-50 which would be fairly expensive with closed cell.
You can.
But this opens up all sorts of other issues.
I assume this is a roof problem.
I will be addressing this code issue in the 4 part series on roofs starting next Tuesday.
Ha I asked in a newer video about this and you already made one. Thanks man.
Do you have one for how long spray foam is supposed to be good for?
Generations.
Hey Spray Jones thank you for putting this out! Curious how open cell vs closed cell spray foam affects these findings? You mention that in closed cell because the cells are essentially a vacuum it prevents future release of VOCs, but what about open cell SPF?
Reason I ask is because open cell tends to be more popular in my area (Florida, US), because it’s water permeable and often sprayed on the underside of roof decks, so you’ll notice if you have a roof leak sooner than you will with closed cell.
Any thoughts on toxicity/ release of VOCs with open cell?
Both are very different. If something is not mixed correctly it is going to smell.
Open cell uses water to blow it open, so yes there is no diminishing value on insulation values.
VOC test is just that, the VOC within 24 hours.
@@SprayJones thank you Spray Jones! I appreciate the additional insights there. :)
How convenient that you uploaded this today. I just asked the two Spray-foam installers I'm talking to this week about this. I didn't get a clear answer, so maybe you can help. I have several fish tanks, most of which are too big to move. Do you have any experience with risk to aquariums from the VOC emissions? One of the installers said I should "just throw a tarp over it, but that [he] isn't liable for it..." so that made me uncomfortable.
I cannot see how the SPF will affect things inside water.
I recently had two of our interior walls foam insulated and two weeks later there's still a crazy plastic-like smell. Is that normal? I called the insulation company and they indicated it should go away after a day. When I indicated it didn't, they haven't called me back. I'm not sure what to do. It's my baby girls room and I'm worried I'll never feel comfortable putting her back in that room. Is the only solution to rip the walls open?
Something is off for sure. Two options: encapsulate the SPF to contain the smell or rip it out and re-spray.
Open or closed cell?
@@SprayJones I'm sad to think we're going to have to completely rip her bedroom walls completely out but, I think that may be our healthiest solution in the long run. I'm not sure if it's open or closed. We used usainsulation.net.
@@jenniferondrasik982 curious did the smell resolve? What course of action did you take? thanks
Are VOC’s primarily an issue with closed cell foam? It seems that open cell installs are not as concerned about hitting a certain depth….basically trying to fill the cavity.
Any SPF can have VOC issues. Open cell foam has a lot of catalyst in it and has to be well mixed to work 100%. Sometimes that step is skipped.
Thanks for the breakdown, much appreciated. It's unfortunate you're not in NYC. Do you have any recommendations for installers in NYC?
Yes. Kyle and Son is who to look for. They are on You Tube
@@SprayJones Hey thank you for the great videos! and recommendations for Montreal region ?
@@700mexi Talk with BASF and see who they recommend. Lots to choose from.
So there isn't anything that can be done here in the US now before or after the spraying of foam correct? What can be done to prevent being stuck with spray foam that is releasing VOC's in the US. Knowing all this makes me pessimistic about ensuring that I hire someone that will spray the foam in a way where i don't need to worry about the safety of the foam and my family's health.
Demilec, BASF, NCFI are 3 examples of companies that make solid and safe products that you can trust.
It then comes down to getting a good installer, which it the real key to it.
So good product and good installer = excellent job that is safe for generations.
No different from electrical wiring or HVAC.
@@SprayJones my installer said he uses a product called Lapolla by Huntsman.... Have you heard anything about this product? Thank you
@@em2012ish Yes. Huntsman owns Lapolla.
Do you think 24 hours is necessary? It’s been about 12 and I’m ready to go home lol
What was said in the video? 1 hour and no VOC detected...
@@SprayJones sorry I didn’t hear that part
I am getting my whole house spray foamed and the 2nd floor has just been finished. If 24hrs is the timeframe for occupancy, would that mean i cannot work unprotected within that 24hour period? I smell off gassing but its not extreme. Product used was Grizzly Gold MD SPF.
Generally no. People work all the time behind the SPF crew before the 24 hour period is up.
@@SprayJones thank you I appreciate you responding so quickly. This is great information and knowledge for others as well
Very well explained Mike here in the uk I have noticed that since my particular resin was changed( now hfo) I use more product taking into consideration temperatures of structure and ambiance temperature this normal now ?
Yes.
HFO is a difficult chemistry. Only the top chemists will be making a great product now. In the past it was easier.
Keep playing with settings. AND UP YOUR PRICE.
Thanks for the video. Do you think that spraying another inch of foam over stinky foam could solve the smell? Currently in that exact situation, have lots of room for more so they opted to spray another layer but I'm skeptical it'll work.
Well.... the reason it stinks is that something is wrong with the chemistry from how it is designed to be installed.
Encapsulation is an ify idea since it does not go to the root of the issue at hand.
@@SprayJones Thanks for the response. 4 days later I can confirm it did not work. Company is now trying to claim the smell is wooden 2x4s on the walls and "if I want" I could poly the walls to stop the smell. Not doing that. Now in contact with the manufacturer's QA certification team. Wish me luck!
While spraying under metal roof,how far should installer stay away from wood stove pipe and can the foam ignite while Wood stove is heating .
Normally the stove will have an adapter collar that allows insulation to come in contact with it and then it contacts the hot flue pipe. We only spray to where it is supposed to and can go..
Hey Mike when Demilec closed cell is sprayed to thick to quick does it increase the voc to danger levels?Will the smell dissipate with time? And what do you think my chances of getting the big company I hired to repair the part of my crawl space they screwed up are? Thanks!
Any foam can smell given stupidity and violation of physics with the chemistry.
Question #2, how would I know??
How Water Proof is close cell? So if your house was to flood, would you have to remove it and let things dry around it and have it re-sprayed? or would the water not penetrate and reapplying wouldn't be necessary?
Closed cell is great against water. Watch "is there waterproof spray foam"
@@SprayJones Thanks great video.
Is there a simple device to test a house that's already sprayed, something like a radon detector?
Nope.
There is a fairly easy test, if you know someone with asthma.
make sure you clean the house with minimal scented products and have someone with asthma walk through, if there are any fumes from the foam that are harmful they will get an asthma attack.
obviously they would need to have their puffer ready and a rapid egress from the house.
@@jaquigreenlees would love to see the research that supports this...are you sure youre not thinking about canaries in the mine shaft?
@@treystills just my own severe case of asthma where all chemical scents have been triggers for asthma attacks.
What's your take on the new ultra-low VOC spray foams (e.g., Ultra-Pure by Natural Polymers, and the like)?
No idea yet.
Do you have a link to the chart you show that gives the insulation performance at different CSF thickness levels? It was something like at 1" you hold 89% of your heat and at 2" 93% and so on, I was curious to know what the delta was in the example after thinking about it. Thanks
Not yet. I have asked my web site ppl to build a resources page where I can upload those to for review.
So it will be coming and then I can populate the info for your view.
@@SprayJones Thanks, I found the chart in your video "Is 1" enough?" Do you remember what delta they used or do you know if it changes much with a larger delta? I live in South Dakota, we see 100F summer all the way to -32F winter temps.
Mike:
I have a double wide mobile home that has a block wall under it for looks.
Between the floor and the top of the block is a gap and the air comes thru and in the winter our floors are freezing cold.
Question.
#1 i want to appply spray foam to the underside of the home and the bock wall under the house.
#2. I want to do it myself buying the kits at the box store is this doable or would i have water or moisture issues. Thank you Roy.
Get a pro... please.
@@SprayJones can not afford a pro. I am going to do ot myself.
Looking for addvice.
But if you dont want to offer advice thats ok. Thanks anyway.
@@dailylife6432 That was my advice.
Thanks Spray Jones. Wish you were down my way. We should be breaking ground in a month and still don't have a spray contractor.
What is your location
Sounds good
@@waterwayinsulation697 NJ
Video request: Is steel frame + closed cell spray foam the perfect DIY house design for an indestructible, insulated, and everlasting home?
I was looking into ICFs initially for my dream home due to their strength and longevity, but after watching a series of a couple DIYing theirs in Washington (US), I realized what an absolute nightmare of ,necessary engineering approval, logistics, material density, and wooden barricading and boarding it required. I also realized the only advantage it seemed to have over steel frame is a continuous insulating barrier created by the concrete so there's no air-leaks, but after watching your videos, spray foam over the walls and roofs probably surpasses it.
Your channel touched on DIY construction a bit and I think that's part of the audience - so video idea!
Ok, will do.
Thanks for watching.
@@SprayJones Aw yiss. And thanks for the detailed explanation of low-voc emittance and the weird smell topic. I said it before but you might as well seek an honorary degree as a materials scientist.
If the foam was in fact sprayed too thick maybe, as i can still smell it 3 months after a new house roof deck was sprayed with open cell and the Florida heat makes it smell. Will the foam eventually gas off? What's the expected time frame? The installer claims to have all new equipment etc and it was sprayed during good weather. He brought 2 samples, one was a year old and one a day old. The one year old sample was all yellow and practically had no smell to it. The house was ventilated without the drywall for 2 months but now it almost feels that the paint and the drywall has that sweet and bitter smell to it
Too thick too quick only applies to closed cell. The chemistry for open cell has no upper limit on application thickness.
You can simply remove a small chunk of the foam, leave it be for a day and come back to it and see if it smells. No odor then you know the foam is not your source rate.
Once this gets into your head that something may be off you can start "smelling" things all the time. Especially if you are hyper sensitive.
I find people will sometimes blame construction odors on the SPF, especially: drywall mud, paint, primers, glues, sealants, on and on.
Drywall mud has a sour smell to it when it is curing and even for a while afterwards.
So it may not even be the SPF you are smelling.
@@SprayJones definitely the foam smell but thank you for the reply
@@SprayJones definitely SPF, the house sat with open windows and doors for 2 months. Now that the drywall is up and the temperatures are in the 90s as well as the high humidity, the smell has intensified. Even with AC running and 2 exhaust fans in the attic. Just wandering what could have gone wrong with the install. They used UPC 500 foam and it’s a large installer, licensed and all. The AC makes the smell even worse as it sits in the attic. The house is unlivable I think at this point, a brand new construction, on a saltwater canal, not sure what to do next. If what I is MDI then this must be a huge issue I’m guessing.
Based on your video, which is excellent, if the chemistry was somehow changed due to bad application, the smell will never disappear sounds like.
@@drchamp1902 Hi Dr Champ, I have exactly the same issue and we’ve added ventilators in the attic. It hasn’t improved, and the AC makes it worse. Have you figured out a solution for it?
@@walidphul6048 I’ve installed air purifier in the ac unit, 3 UV lights, sealed the handler with tape and silicone, it feels better now, 15 months later. However, I can still smell it, it’s our second home so I’m only there once a month or so for a week. I had the manufacturer pay for it though. There is definitely an issue with this industry and foam, no one with skin in the game is honest about it, the lobby is too strong, even the lawyers don’t want to deal with this. I had a company test air for VOC, outside showed 0.3 inside and and all attic exhaust vents 0.6, double the outside. That was done prior to the purification. At this point I’ll just live with it, maybe not for long:) I’m convinced the product is pure poison and should not be used inside living spaces. It a shame that I’ve designed and built this house using the best materials and modern technology. However, the foam situation is very unfortunate, the manufacturer has offered to remove it but since my attic is unvented, I would be required to redesign the entire roof system and redo energy calcs and probably reduce AC and a bunch of other stuff.
What about the Freon you mentioned on your other video? Isn't this harmful?
If it was it would have shown up in the report.
Can you recommend a spray foam contractor in NYC? Thinking of spray foaming my attic.
What about Kyle & Son ? They have a YT channel.
I know they recommend customers not being inside for 24 hours at least from time of application. What is the recommendation on installing this in a persons workplace while they are working below the installation. Should workplaces ensure their employees aren’t on site during application?
In Canada: unprotected workers must be 30' (10m) away.
Isolate your work area, ventilate to give the SPF somewhere to go.
I am in the United States and am going to get spray foam our new house. Do you think that we should have a company come out and check the air to make sure it is not releasing VOCs?
No.
Hire a good SPF installer and research the product to use. Demilec, BASF, NCFI, Huntsman etc.
Any issues with the smell? My new house is now unlivable, open cell UPC 500 foam under the roof deck, polyglass MTS underlayment and a standing seam metal roof. With hot and humid weather the smell inside the house is very strong, unbearable
exposure to off Gassing constantly exposed must have its
consequences.
Thanks, very informative.
Glad it was helpful!
What kind of PPE would you recommend wearing while spraying?
Tyvek suit, and full face fresh air supplied
@@SprayJones what if you don’t have a fresh air system, are you okay with good ventilation , p100/Organic vapor filters and full face respirator?
Does the US have their standard yet?
Not that I know of
New subscriber and new foamer
Welcome aboard!
Great video
Thanks for the visit
Man, I hope you are willing to react to my question. Im a Carpenter for like 27 years heren in Holland and I want to have the closed cell spray foam in my 100 year ons new house. But it seems, here in Holland are not many companies who use spray foam. And thats why, i guess, why spray foam has such a bad name due to health issues people experiencing after isolating their home with spray foam. Ive seen your video's. Well some. And ik know youre a serious proffesional who knows what he does. Man i love the closed spray foam, bit man im so worried for the health fory kids and myself. Can you give me a tip where to look at and who to hire here in the netherlands? Ik you can even samen something about that. Big If. And ive seen your video about the 5 sorts of people you schould avoid. But, yeah... I still dont know.
Autocorrection on my Phone makes a lot of typos
You are a world away from me... but BASF is a German company and has a large European presence, so start searching BASF and Walltite spray foam in your areas and see what comes up.
@@SprayJones haha yes. Quite far. I will look into it. I'll try to gibr you an update. If I dont forget that is. Thank you for replying to me.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a spray foam professional in the Austin Tx area? Or San Antonio area?
Not from me. There are lots down there. Call to Demilec in Arlington and ask who they sell to.
@@SprayJones This is one I will follow up on- Arlington is just down the road from where I live! FR
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First viewer and comment on this video
Good job
this is ridiculous, consider investing in eco-friendly natural and organic materials.
Your other business should be as a consultant for other new spray foam companies. Education and training for the employees. Or at least author a comprehensive set of training and educational materials for sale as a package. I'm sure between Canada and the USA you could make a fortune.
Maybe...
People do not want to pay for training especially good training.