We made mild steel pistons - how will the engine operate?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2021
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    In this episode we follow up our previous experiments with plastic and wooden pistons with a (somewhat) proper iteration.
    Our instagram / garage__54
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ความคิดเห็น • 989

  • @TheHumphrey367
    @TheHumphrey367 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1187

    Heat up a pool with an engine. Like plumb the pool water through the block run the engine and see how cool the engine stays and how warm the pool water gets lol. Ive always wanted to see that

    • @user-ts3ti5mj1q
      @user-ts3ti5mj1q 2 ปีที่แล้ว +46

      They already did this

    • @TheHumphrey367
      @TheHumphrey367 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@user-ts3ti5mj1q i searched and couldn't find a video

    • @heavyballs8458
      @heavyballs8458 2 ปีที่แล้ว +78

      OMG. LADA HOT TUB!!!

    • @heavyballs8458
      @heavyballs8458 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      You my friend are a genius

    • @Allanlbrr
      @Allanlbrr 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      @@user-ts3ti5mj1q no they didn't

  • @carloscollomps1552
    @carloscollomps1552 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    The pin play was NOT caused by the weight of the pistons, but by the fact that you forgot to drill the pin lubricating holes in the pistons.

    • @julianbrah5873
      @julianbrah5873 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      You are correct.

    • @OldCrowsClassicCars
      @OldCrowsClassicCars ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Another great catch! I noticed that as well

    • @bradleyfreeman9010
      @bradleyfreeman9010 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yes man I noticed that when he was weighing them 🤦🏻‍♂️

  • @fwaynedavis
    @fwaynedavis 2 ปีที่แล้ว +384

    Since Steel does not expand as much as Aluminum, your pistons didn't swell too much. BUT...the wrist pin slop did not account for the engine locking up or the initial very hard start. The piston weight would be insignificant at starting speed (i mean, the starter can move the whole car if in gear right? The rotating assembly of that engine is probably 25 kilos or more even with aluminum pistons, another 4 kilos isnt going to do much against the starter motor. I suspect the machining of the wrist pin bore is the culprit. Also the gravity theory is not valid, as when one piston goes up another is coming down on all 4 cylinder engines. I say a do-over is needed, use bronze bushings in the wrist pins. And do it in a pre-tuned well running motor first to eliminate all the other variables! Awesome content!

    • @ASoftaaja
      @ASoftaaja 2 ปีที่แล้ว +85

      The wrist pin bore was probably not drilled exactly at 90 degrees angle. This would cause the piston to bind up sideways when the connecting rod was tightened and would explain the friction. I was also puzzling why the engine was so hard to turn.

    • @fwaynedavis
      @fwaynedavis 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@ASoftaaja Agreed!

    • @MF175mp
      @MF175mp 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      The wrist pin isn't supposed to move in the bore in the piston anyway, the bearing is in the conrod and the piston has tighter hole so that it won't spin.

    • @captaingoldbeered803
      @captaingoldbeered803 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      That’s where I’m at. It would run fine if done correctly. Steel is ok for pistons, just not as good as aluminum from a thermodynamic standpoint. Still love the channel though lol.

    • @99thpeanut59
      @99thpeanut59 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      You’re all forgetting a fundamental engine design flaw. It’s none of that. All of that is fine. You’re reading way too far into it. It’s way more simple than that. The pistons they made were round. Pistons aren’t round. They’re oblong.

  • @samuelfreeman9518
    @samuelfreeman9518 2 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    I watched a late 30s Chevrolet dealership promo film here on youtube. They exclaimed that Chevrolet uses steel pistons instead of the competitors aluminum pistons which would "obviously wear out". Also, Chevrolet bragged about not needing a oil filter because oil filters are only needed for inferior designed engines. That didn't age well.

    • @webtoedman
      @webtoedman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Good old disingenuous GM. Ford made steel pistons back in the '30s too. They were tin plated to assist the running in process.

    • @isaacsrandomvideos667
      @isaacsrandomvideos667 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      lol
      I love those Chevy promo videos

    • @herpnderpn2484
      @herpnderpn2484 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Steel was pretty common early on. And to be fair, if the tolerances are terrible to begin with, all you really need to do is change the oil regularly. Filter won't do much.

    • @oldleatherhandsfriends4053
      @oldleatherhandsfriends4053 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      But in the 30's aluminum was still really expensive and you can make steel close to the same weight with proper disign and type/grade selection. The real issue is the heat retention and steel and iron wearing on each other.

    • @andrewdunbar5335
      @andrewdunbar5335 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      In the 1930s engine oil was so cheap and had such a short life it wasn't worth filtering. They just used a fine wire mesh strainer to remove any large particles. Even the engines used in fighter aircraft didn't use a filter.

  • @backwoodsjunkie08
    @backwoodsjunkie08 2 ปีที่แล้ว +75

    My father owned a machine shop when I was a kid. I always loved dickin around an making all kinds of stuff. I made several pistons for O.S. and Saito engine for rc aircraft and had great success! I used aluminum though. I even had an O.S. 46 that had almost 20hrs on a home made piston

    • @volvo09
      @volvo09 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      That's cool!
      Tight tolerances too, aren't those engines ringless? Been a while since I played with them.... But it was a little .12 or .15 so...

    • @mehmeh7701
      @mehmeh7701 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@volvo09 i thought it was a single ring piston in those nitro engines

    • @buildurtruckurway9118
      @buildurtruckurway9118 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      My friend did the same for his trike. He owns a small machine shop and he wanted a big bore that they don't produce for the 185/200. He took an aluminum block and machined it down to a 67.5mm piston. It had a huge dome And valve reliefs cut in and made like 12.5-1 compression. He ran it for 3 seasons before the bike started burning oil like crazy. he tore it down bored another cylinder and reused the piston with new rings and ended up selling the bike this year.

    • @rocknraptor3195
      @rocknraptor3195 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@mehmeh7701 no, no rings! Aluminum piston, chrome lined brass sleeve.

    • @rocknraptor3195
      @rocknraptor3195 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thats cool, i know the O.S. engines were good. If you could make the sleeves you would be set!

  • @descargaelbano
    @descargaelbano 2 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    From machining over the years, I have found a Pistons are not only tapered from bottom to the top they have a slight oval to them to prevent them from expanding and scoring the bore or locking up

    • @naturafibre7905
      @naturafibre7905 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      As my experience, I agree.

    • @chippyjohn1
      @chippyjohn1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thats because Aluminium has a high expansion rate and the metal is not evenly distributed throughout the piston.

    • @descargaelbano
      @descargaelbano 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@chippyjohn1 Yes.

    • @martin09091989
      @martin09091989 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yea, it´s a kind of art to make the shape of a piston right.
      It´s very importent to have that shape so the piston rides on a oil wedge and not binde while tilting and changing direction.
      If you make a piston just cylindrical it rides on very small surfaces on the ends, and gets no oil shoved under those.

    • @martinda7446
      @martinda7446 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      🤠 I know you likely didn't intend it to read this way, and I'm being a bit pedantic, but you can't 'prevent pistons from expanding'. The only way to minimise expansion is by choice of alloy, and cooling. They are shaped, in part, to be geometrically precise at working temperature.

  • @anibalbabilonia1867
    @anibalbabilonia1867 2 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    The fact that they made their own fabricated pistons! I call that a success! And it ran!👌😂👍amazing!

    • @VirtualR
      @VirtualR 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Should see their other videos with wooden and plastic pistons lol

  • @Smokey0210
    @Smokey0210 2 ปีที่แล้ว +79

    Take a front drive engine and mount it inside the car. Use the left half-shaft to power the front differential and the right to power the rear differential. It would be like 4wd without a second transfer case.

    • @lustfulvengance
      @lustfulvengance 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      That's been done before but you end up with so much gear reduction because you have the differential in the transaxle and then the axles are connected to that, the thing tops out at like 40 miles an hour lol

    • @ce5243
      @ce5243 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@lustfulvengance you want 4wd for off-road and crawling anyways. Would work out well if it works out

    • @jmferenermig
      @jmferenermig 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Mastermilo did that years ago but i would love seeing garage54 do it

    • @em3ls842
      @em3ls842 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      They have done it, to an old rusted out samara

    • @AxelP33
      @AxelP33 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      They started onna samara but never finished.

  • @sungear
    @sungear 2 ปีที่แล้ว +75

    This kind of stuff does way more for international diplomatic relations than any politician.
    I love the Ukranian attitude.

    • @steve0680657
      @steve0680657 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ukraine.

    • @sungear
      @sungear 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@steve0680657 thanks, i wasn't sure.
      I'm a somewhat ignorant westerner regarding Ukraine vs Russia, etc.
      I'll update the post.

    • @SwapBlogRU
      @SwapBlogRU 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@sungear as a Russian myself with some Ukrainian blood in me (who has relatives/friends living there) - I feel like we're a common ethnos. But the influence of certain powerful groups of people acting in the name of their own interests (which I'm not going to pretend that I fully comprehend) has driven us apart, unfortunately. Commonfolk get along, always have and always will, but the powers that be are on their own wavelength, they have their own motivation, and as far as they're concerned we're all expendable.

    • @SwapBlogRU
      @SwapBlogRU 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Honestly, to me (and I feel like that's how any healthy human being will feel) there does not exist a single nationality or race that I'd be prejudiced against by default "just because". In this day and age a bunch of us have become "worldly", and we all know that every nation has its jackasses, but also has its amazing and cool people. Yes, different peoples/races have their peculiarities and quirks associated with such, but as a general rule that is not what determines whether they're fundamentally good or bad people. I mean, speaking for myself - when I meet someone from, say, Nigeria, Vietnam, Hungary, Argentina or some other far away country, I'm intrigued and curious, first and foremost, certainly not negatively charged because of some BS stereotypes.
      But then if we discuss cars - then it's going to be a different story) I can be a major dickhead when it comes to the subject, I enjoy taking jabs at BMW's and their owners on account of them not using their turn signals and topping off their motor oil each time before going for a drive))

    • @Adam-im4hm
      @Adam-im4hm 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@SwapBlogRU yes for sure, a lot of us have terrible governments. Mine is no different.

  • @brandonlaw2010
    @brandonlaw2010 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Use a steam radiator as a muffler and see how quiet the engine is. Install it in the back of a lada as a heater as well as a muffler.

    • @teebosaurusyou
      @teebosaurusyou ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Some farmer has probably already done it. 🤪

    • @andrewdunbar5335
      @andrewdunbar5335 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That is pretty much how the VW Beetle heater worked.

  • @-A-Hybrid-Skunk-Productions-
    @-A-Hybrid-Skunk-Productions- 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    That was a very facinating experiment Garage 54. I was very intrigued. Thank to you all at garage 54 for putting this video together for us. Have an awesomely epic day in Mother Russia.

  • @kad_blazedgaming_991
    @kad_blazedgaming_991 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I think it would be fun to see y’all make all the parts of an engine starting with the rotating assembly like the conrods, crank, etc then the head and the block. I know it would be hard but it would be pretty cool long term project.

    • @raven4k998
      @raven4k998 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      mild steel failed that's why you need hardened steel pistons🤣🤣

  • @1984xlx
    @1984xlx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Fascinating experiment! And I am impressed with your teams machining skills. Those pistons turned out great. So even though it didn't run very long, I'd still call this a success.

  • @stefenheiff2208
    @stefenheiff2208 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Steel has a lower expansion coefficient than aluminium. The pin holding the head seemed to receive less heat than the head, then it came loose and rubbed against cylinder walls. The knocking would be all the play of the piston in the cylinder. I must say this was a good video in line with Garage 54's tradition

    • @99thpeanut59
      @99thpeanut59 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wrong. You are all over complicating it. It’s way simpler than that. They made circle pistons. Pistons aren’t circular. They’re oblong.

    • @ottopartz1
      @ottopartz1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@99thpeanut59 you are wrong. Lada pistons as well as just about every other piston is round from the bottom of the ring pack up. Some pistons might be oddly shaped or oblong from the ring pack down but that is a matter of choices for oil flow and clearances for the full stroke of the engine cycle. If you don't believe me, go look up the specifications for the Lada pistons and rings, they are round.

    • @99thpeanut59
      @99thpeanut59 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Malay Maniac that’s not true lol. There’s more material where the wrist pin doesn’t reside. This means the piston expands wrong if it is made round. Pistons are made oblong so when they expand from heat they don’t score up the sides where it bulges (they become round when hot)

    • @ottopartz1
      @ottopartz1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@99thpeanut59#1 the wrist pin is below the rings #2 the rings are the only part of the piston assembly that actually make any contact with the cylinder walls #3 pistons are round hot or cold, metal can't be mass produced to have different expansion properties to change from oval to round. #4 pistons can and will be different shaped below the rings to save weight and other reasons but it doesn't matter because the rings are the only part that make any contact with the cylinder walls

    • @mfree80286
      @mfree80286 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@99thpeanut59 It's simpler than that, even. I never saw anyone drill any oil ports in those pistons.

  • @johnjay5143
    @johnjay5143 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    HAHAHA , I thought a rod snapped , sending it into the head and instantly into the crank case seizing it up . And then seeing the wrist pin clearance was an EYE opening moment . lol Damn , talk about RECIPRICATING weight !?! Priceless .

  • @MathieuTechMoto
    @MathieuTechMoto 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Best mecanic channel i've ever known, i'm surprised that they are not even 1M subs yet !

    • @televisionandcheese
      @televisionandcheese 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Тhey're at 3.75 million subs + this channels subs

  • @Gabja
    @Gabja 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I must say, the editing and music on your videos is always top notch. 👌

    • @thatguyalex2835
      @thatguyalex2835 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I love both also. The electronic music is pretty cool, like electro and trap. While I don't typically like the latter, it goes well on this mechanical fooling around channel. :)

  • @plkracer
    @plkracer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I bet the steel was partially stress relieved when it heated up, the drawn rod they were made from has a ton of residual stress. Would be interesting to measure them after the fact.
    Your wrist pin was likely bending inside the bores due to the extra weight as well, which would destroy the tolerances in short order.

  • @3dartstudio007
    @3dartstudio007 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great episode. Super interesting. This is the kind of stuff I wonder about all the time. On to different alloys of pistons? Love these "what if" scenarios!

  • @emilschw8924
    @emilschw8924 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love this channel, gives me answers to some of my questions...
    Thank you for taking your time to do experiments on cars and show us the results of said experiments.

  • @6628guitarhero
    @6628guitarhero 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    How light can you make a stock rotating assembly? Shave what you can from the piston, rods, and crank.
    Like the episode when you guys cut off the crank counter weights

  • @dodgydruid
    @dodgydruid 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    They used steel before alloy so they should have worked. My guess is, a steel piston would have had its inner area scoured out to give a very light mass so when heat was accumulated, the piston itself didn't excessively swell but done in such a way to give strength still to the gudgeon pin support. If you look at how an alloy piston is designed, every ounce of excess material is removed above and below the pin except for the two shoulder supports and a reasonable thickness to give the crown strength and also to allow oil to splatter up from the rod to the inner crown face to give some cooling there too which is supposed to aid anti fouling on the exterior crown face. I reckon you should knock off externally another thou or so to cope with expansion, measure the piston body when cold then measure after heating it to glowing and you will be seriously surprised how much bigger it is. So with some engineering maths you can work out how much to shave off the exterior diameter and have a perfectly fitting piston.

    • @99thpeanut59
      @99thpeanut59 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      It’s a lot simpler than that. He cut the pistons round. Pistons aren’t round. They’re oblong. So they failed.

    • @nerd1000ify
      @nerd1000ify 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@99thpeanut59 For many years before cam grinding equipment became available pistons were turned round on a lathe. Round pistons work. Of course the uneven expansion means that the piston to bore clearance must be larger, and the contact between the piston skirt and the cylinder liner is less optimal, meaning more friction and a need for a longer, heavier piston to withstand the side forces without excessive wear. Some engines were still made this way up to the 1950s, especially those that had cast iron pistons which don't expand as much as aluminium ones.

    • @Numer1Polak
      @Numer1Polak 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Just look up a Detroit Diesel 60 EGR piston. Diesels have been doing it for over 20 years. The top is round and tapers to the center as a transfer point to the pin which saves weight and allows the top to expand evenly then only thin skirts are left as guides.

  • @Trumplican
    @Trumplican ปีที่แล้ว +1

    lots of old engines had cast iron pistons so this should work too. the heat transfer sucks but it should work. you have to get the piston to cylinder wall clearance right though.

  • @scootergem
    @scootergem 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It is very gratefully appreciated that you tried this. It failed, but that is when we really learn. Thank you for all your efforts. Kudos my friends!

  • @MF175mp
    @MF175mp 2 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    You should try silicon bronze pistons for less friction, will it consume less fuel?

    • @dustinandtarynwolfe5540
      @dustinandtarynwolfe5540 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      That's actually a really solid idea dude. I'd like to see how that works as well.

    • @Jonas_Aa
      @Jonas_Aa 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      VW made in the recent years a low friction piston by making low friction rings. All that did was to make the engine eat more oil. VW says it is ok for 1 liter (~1 quart) for every 2000 km (1240 miles).

    • @MF175mp
      @MF175mp 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Jonas_Aa the rings probably were similar than previously but had just less preload to them.

    • @nitrorcmaster1
      @nitrorcmaster1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@Jonas_Aa yep. ‘And not to mention VW will not permit you adding engine oil if it’s a lease, you cannot change or add oil on your own, so the guy at the dealership I know is seeing these motors come in all the time with little or no oil. Junk design

    • @Jonas_Aa
      @Jonas_Aa 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MF175mp probably. Makes a mess though.

  • @JOHNKESSLER88
    @JOHNKESSLER88 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    A vintage John deere "D" tractor has factory cast iron pistons the size of paint buckets.

    • @thatguyalex2835
      @thatguyalex2835 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nice. :) Cast iron is almost black, and as we know, black pistons are better in every way.
      Ok, I'll step out.

  • @watajob
    @watajob 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I gotta' tell ya': Your level of sophistication has increased many orders of magnitude since the beginning. Really cool. And, we appreciate all your projects... even the few that go south.

    • @GoldenCroc
      @GoldenCroc 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Going south? Nah, all of their projects have a 107% success rate!

  • @darcymcrae3619
    @darcymcrae3619 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I’d love to see you try that again but harden the pistons first to hopefully prevent that from happening!

  • @micinum
    @micinum 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Drill out the pistons from the inside to lower the weight and make them the same weight. Fabricate new pins. Weld weights on the crankshaft cunterweights (how much? your piston - the stock piston = your cunterweight). It will work like a new engine, everything was out of balance how do you expect it to run?!

    • @anythingrc4715
      @anythingrc4715 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think you spelled counterweight wrong 💀

    • @Conservator.
      @Conservator. 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Exactly. This engine was bound to vibrate itself out of existence in no time.
      They’d also have to put extra weight on the balancing axis (if there are any).

    • @OldCrowsClassicCars
      @OldCrowsClassicCars ปีที่แล้ว

      great point!

  • @maikeru01
    @maikeru01 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I saw this video on a different channel a few weeks ago about a one wheel motorcycle that was kind of eye opening for me in terms of the way engines work. We take for granted that the wheels turn on a car or a bike when you give it gas but on the one wheeler, after all the work they did, the grip from the tires kept the wheel in place, and swung the rest of the thing around until it hit the ground, then once the tank or the seat or fender hits the ground, only then it's there enough resistance that the wheel could actually turn and move the bike forward. That's what these heavy pistons are reminding me of. If it isn't precisely engineered, it isn't going to act how you think it should. It almost ceases to be an engine.

    • @mikeznel6048
      @mikeznel6048 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What's this "we" take for granted stuff?

  • @OldCrowsClassicCars
    @OldCrowsClassicCars ปีที่แล้ว

    I think with a few key modifications, it could be made practical...Cast iron pistons were used in the 40s.
    Correct clearance, drill holes for wrist pin lubrication, correct counterweights on crankshaft, correct hole angle for wrist pin and it would be a useable piston.

  • @sheiladawg1664
    @sheiladawg1664 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    25:15 is that a power outlet next to a power washer wand?
    PERFECT!

  • @prinzeugenvansovoyen732
    @prinzeugenvansovoyen732 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    steel pistons when used in tractors have a piston ring at the bottom that keeps them centered so no direct steel on steel contact can occur

    • @peglor
      @peglor 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Aren't piston rings usually made from steel?

    • @prinzeugenvansovoyen732
      @prinzeugenvansovoyen732 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@peglor hard chrome plated spring steel
      its a spring
      so it gives a bit and doesnt shave off material or create much friction

    • @OldCrowsClassicCars
      @OldCrowsClassicCars ปีที่แล้ว

      Interesting.I had never heard of that

  • @operator8014
    @operator8014 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Make a hydraulic brake setup where you can pump each tires brakes individually, like how new vehicle stability systems work.
    Test it to see if it's as good as a locking differential, and if it can help you when sliding around on ice.

    • @peglor
      @peglor 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      These are known as fiddle brakes and are used in some classes of off road vehicle where the driver does the steering/gears and the co-driver operates 4 levers, one for the brake on each wheel. Here's an example - they use locked differentials too, but a switch on the brake levers disengages the diff lock when they're using the fiddle brakes: th-cam.com/video/_jktBwQfBJE/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=OffroadAddictionTV

  • @jezza4338
    @jezza4338 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love what you guys get up to!

  • @Texassince1836
    @Texassince1836 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Need to drill oil holes through the piston on the lower piston ring like the stock pistons

  • @Turboy65
    @Turboy65 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The steel pistons would expand LESS from heat than the aluminum ones. Aluminum has a higher coefficent of thermal expansion than iron or steel.

  • @danielclifton6140
    @danielclifton6140 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    How about seeing how long you can make a inlet and exhaust manifold and how it performs

  • @superbmediacontentcreator
    @superbmediacontentcreator 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love these guys and the International nature of this content! Everything is done at the harry edge all the time in such privative conditions. The translation is sometimes hilarious too!

  • @volvo09
    @volvo09 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That was an impressive amount of work for an experiment, good work!
    At also failed in a different manner than I expected, cool!

  • @thehulkamaniabrother2.089
    @thehulkamaniabrother2.089 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I'm really impressed with all the precision machining that you guys have done on this channel. You guys are excellent machinists

    • @TheAsheybabe89
      @TheAsheybabe89 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Lol nah. Those pistons wouldn't have had that much variance in weight if that were true

    • @Eva-augustin
      @Eva-augustin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I guess you impressed by a pile of horse 💩 too huh…that was horrendous

    • @seekingtko3146
      @seekingtko3146 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Its more ingenuity than anything else

    • @thehulkamaniabrother2.089
      @thehulkamaniabrother2.089 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@seekingtko3146 I just want that manual lathe that they have lol. I have a Bridgeport milling machine in my shop but no lathe😥

    • @mrmatt2525able
      @mrmatt2525able 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Eva-augustin can you do better?

  • @jeffp5730
    @jeffp5730 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The pistons dont rub the wall. Thats what the rings are for. So the coating should have no bearing in how it turns over

    • @notavailable9919
      @notavailable9919 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      isn't it the cylinder wall that should be coated?

    • @mikeznel6048
      @mikeznel6048 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Pistons certainly do rub the cylinder wall. The pistons rings are to seal it for compression and oil control. The skirt of the piston will rub the cylinder wall. The coating of oil between the piston and cylinder wall is what prevents excessive wear.

    • @mikeznel6048
      @mikeznel6048 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@notavailable9919 No, its coated pistons. The cylinder walls are coated with oil.

  • @bostedtap8399
    @bostedtap8399 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brilliant as per usual, 👏
    Thanks for sharing.

  • @mungmungie
    @mungmungie 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have to admit, Vlad is even more entertaining after a couple of vodka & irish creams.
    At 13:14--there's a sound I remember. Back in the early 1980s, a "friend" installed some aircraft spark plugs and advanced the ignition in my Lada. Eventually, it burned holes right through the pistons. I drove over the Rocky Mountains on one cylindar, pulling a trailer. Ladas are almost unstoppable.

  • @oldfarmertrucker1996
    @oldfarmertrucker1996 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Try to make wooden intake valves see how well that works

    • @KvngCotto
      @KvngCotto 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      those would easily break

    • @mikeznel6048
      @mikeznel6048 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@KvngCotto Breaking wouldn't be the issue. Burning would destroy them. The hot combustion gases leaving the cylinder on the exhaust stroke would burn the exhaust valve first likely before they would burn from combustion. There are some incredibly hard and tough tight grain hard woods. You would would surprised how tough they are. You couldn't break a piece the size of a pencil with your hands.

  • @K-Effect
    @K-Effect 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Make an engine block out of wood but use steel piston sleeves and install metallic bearings wherever necessary and use the original cylinder head, manifold accessories etc. but build a block out of wood. If not wood use epoxy, concrete anything you can think of

  • @farmboy6218
    @farmboy6218 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I enjoy these experiments.
    Thanks guys!

  • @double-you5130
    @double-you5130 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    excellent. so fascinating to watch to know all these details matter

  • @got2kittys
    @got2kittys 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I've seen this done on a motorcycle and it ran perfectly. There's some other issue.
    Rings for an aluminum piston may need more end gap, in a steel piston. Just a theory, hehehe!

  • @Universal.G
    @Universal.G 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Hey Vlad, you know what would really be EPIC, if Garage 54 made their own engine from scratch!! That would kick ass!!!

    • @MrBanaanipommi
      @MrBanaanipommi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      it would require stuff that costs a lot and takes time to plan the engine

    • @realrickharrison3103
      @realrickharrison3103 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@MrBanaanipommi Nothing will stop garage 54

    • @BruceCarbonLakeriver
      @BruceCarbonLakeriver 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MrBanaanipommi welders grinders and steel. That's enough for Garage54 to get it done LOL

    • @MrBanaanipommi
      @MrBanaanipommi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BruceCarbonLakeriver loool...

    • @Universal.G
      @Universal.G 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BruceCarbonLakeriver 😂👏

  • @knobsdialsandbuttons
    @knobsdialsandbuttons 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent video as always ! 👍👍

  • @robertwest3093
    @robertwest3093 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love plan B (or P)! These guys go all out making sure engines start and run if just for a few minutes.

  • @Jonas_Aa
    @Jonas_Aa 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Piston seemed to be missing oil holes for the axel that goes through the rod.

  • @MF175mp
    @MF175mp 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You need hard chrome liners for steel pistons.

    • @MF175mp
      @MF175mp 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Even then the pistons are usually cast iron as well as the piston rings.

    • @AmritGrewal31
      @AmritGrewal31 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MF175mp why chrome specifically?

    • @MF175mp
      @MF175mp 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AmritGrewal31 Nikasil or anything hard and slippery will do fine as well. But the factory made engines used in the old days that had cast iron pistons had usually chrome liners

    • @AmritGrewal31
      @AmritGrewal31 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MF175mp hard and slippery strokes better, huhn?

    • @MF175mp
      @MF175mp 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AmritGrewal31 if the piston and liner are basically of the same material (both iron based) and relatively close in hardness, you maximise the risk of galling them together. You could probably also go softer like bearing bronze liners but it would wear much faster then

  • @ardennielsen3761
    @ardennielsen3761 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the piston to cylinder wall clearance on a air cooled 1983 Yamaha XJ650 that rev's to 11'000rpm is around 2mm to 3mm. ring gap 36 thousandths of an inch. has holes under the oil scrapers that pressurize oil onto the wrist pin as the piston moves down.

  • @FransvandenBergeMuziekschuur
    @FransvandenBergeMuziekschuur 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are a great teacher. Thank you.

  • @sacr3
    @sacr3 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Steel expands differently than aluminum, you would probably have to change the dimensions to allow for more clearance. Still also holds on to heat a lot longer than aluminum due to its density
    There is a thrust side to all Pistons, the side that pushes up against the cylinder wall as it rises due to the angle of the piston arm, when this giant chunk of steel expands from the heat it'll make more contact on the thrust side leaving gouges
    That's my assumption at this point. Piston rings are known to destroy engines after people end up throwing superchargers or turbos on their engine without rebuilding it. Due to the increase to heat and pressure the piston ring expands a little further than it should and makes contact with itself which forces it to warp, this warping action damages cylinder walls and the piston. Pistons have blown apart because of this before.

  • @mikeznel6048
    @mikeznel6048 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love all the comments about how they should have done this or that to do it right. The whole point of this was to make heavy and unbalance pistons to see what happens. What fun would it be if they made them perfect and as they should be made? Might as well just buy new pistons and swap swap out if they were to do that. The whole point of doing it like this was for entertainment. They know everything there is to know about engine anatomy.

    • @theothertonydutch
      @theothertonydutch 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Fun? We wouldn't want fun on our internet now would we? Why, we might be entertained and enjoy our time here, even!

    • @ohm1945
      @ohm1945 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Mike Znel
      Yep, these guys really do know the guts of an engine. They’re creative fellows and an awesome source of our entertainment and education.

  • @sexyredtablet6599
    @sexyredtablet6599 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    When we used to build bangers (granadas/sierra/erc) we ran 24v through just the starter to give it more oomph (and to start quicker if you got rammed and it cut out) but yhe rest of the system was normal 12v..give that a try and see if the lada starters can take it.

    • @henrycarlson7514
      @henrycarlson7514 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      i have an old Oliver tractor , that came from the factory 6v. I have used a 12v battery to start it for many years , one nice thing the starter turns faster , so it starts better . i did some demolition derbies several years ago . That was a lot of fun

  • @jeffmatson2046
    @jeffmatson2046 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yu guys are crazy fun! Nut's all the way to the end . Still great job guy's

  • @jreererer8490
    @jreererer8490 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You should bore out the engine cylinders to get higher displacement and make custom pistons for them and see the HP gain

  • @willierule3744
    @willierule3744 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think the Pistons since their steel they swell too much in heat so once they cool they will shrink and it'll run again

    • @wowzzing5571
      @wowzzing5571 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Steel expands less with heat then aluminum.

    • @willierule3744
      @willierule3744 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@wowzzing5571 I did not know that I thought it was the other way around but I guess that's what you get when you assume things I just assumed that steel would expand more thanks for the information I know better now have a good night

  • @MrAmrmnabil
    @MrAmrmnabil ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks. You always make my day better.

  • @Texassince1836
    @Texassince1836 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Cars used to use steel pistons. You can mill out alot more metal to get the weight down to ~650g and make the pistons tighter to the bore than you would aluminum. Steel expands less than aluminum

  • @winnaingtun2744
    @winnaingtun2744 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In dynamic action, we think about one of many things. It's that weight of piston(s) is more and than flyweight (weight of flywheel) is more to continue spin running.
    Any way I like this experimentation, and thank you all.

  • @MrDerbee
    @MrDerbee ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting and informative experiment; proof that the type of materials used in engines is critical to proper running. The engine may start and run, but only for a very short time!

  • @bingbing-ti2rv
    @bingbing-ti2rv 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome as usual !

  • @benjurqunov
    @benjurqunov 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice guys !
    Draining oil right into the floor sewer.

  • @MattFromAmerica
    @MattFromAmerica 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video!

  • @jasonz7788
    @jasonz7788 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great work Sir thank you

  • @brianhaygood183
    @brianhaygood183 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    13:45 Neighbors thinking, "that's the most normal thing that has ever come out of that shop."

  • @tracymcdougal6381
    @tracymcdougal6381 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Intriguing experiment.

  • @wilbill9
    @wilbill9 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Keep it up this show is awesome

  • @altonrowell613
    @altonrowell613 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting information. I always use lead for my pistons.

  • @Quebecer_Powerstroke
    @Quebecer_Powerstroke 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Newer Ford Super Duty with the 6.7 Powerstroke diesel use forged steel pistons and it work really well ! (Third gen 6.7 2020+)

  • @1992heavychevy
    @1992heavychevy 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cummins and cat have been doing this for years. Piston top is steel and skirt is aluminum to help wear. They are a 2 piece design with wrist pin connecting the 2

  • @TowerCrisis
    @TowerCrisis ปีที่แล้ว

    I think part of the issue is the center of mass is way above the pin on the piston. When the rod swings around, it pushes the piston to the side. When the piston gets pushed to the side, it rotates in the bore and the piston skirt kits the opposing wall first. Then on the upstroke, since the piston is already rotated, it pushes the top against the other side of the cylinder just because the center of mass is so far above the pin.
    Standard OEM pistons actually have a very carefully offset pin to try and counteract this and reduce piston rattle.

  • @goranmiskulin5903
    @goranmiskulin5903 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video like always...I think hole in oil scraper ring is not enough for lubrication, it should be more of them

  • @godfreypoon5148
    @godfreypoon5148 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    MrCrispin has a video you should watch - "Choose the Right Material!"
    Some materials do not play well together. When they slide against each other, they pick up and gall and make a heck of a mess.
    You may have found such a pair.

  • @animalfarm7467
    @animalfarm7467 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    May I suggest you research Cam-Ground Pistons. Pistons skirts are not circular but are elliptical, with the minor axis parallel to the wrist pin. And given the linear coefficient of thermal expansion for steel is less than that of aluminum, it is unlikely the material selection is the reason for seizure. But using the factory cam-ground clearances for non-Cam-Ground pistons may be the reason for piston seizure. Also, with that much discrepancy in mass (e.g. 300g - 1300g), the second harmonic from the piston would have attempted to hammer the con-rod bearings flat at high engine RPM. Remember, the 300g you measured for the mass of the factory piston is offset by the counterweights on the crankshaft. The additional 1000g difference is pure unbalanced mass and would have resulted in large forces outside of the design parameters of the engine. These forces would be roughly proportional to that unbalanced mass and the square of the engine RPM.

  • @operator8014
    @operator8014 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dang, really good work guys. Sorry it didn't work out this time.

  • @EdgarsLS
    @EdgarsLS ปีที่แล้ว

    Back in the early days of the combustion engine, pistons were made out of steel, they would glow a dim red color during operation. But then Jaguar decided to make pistons out of aluminum and when they fixed all the problems, it revolutionized combustion engines.
    Diesel engines however still use steel pistons sometimes.

  • @fullboostturbo1
    @fullboostturbo1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The reason these pistons all had same wear marks was due to them drilling the wrist pin holes OFF CENTER. Also if they actually made all the pistons weigh the same this motor would have ran perfectly until such revs that the Connecting rods or Crankshaft broke from too much weight/force.

  • @michailokeefeMooMoo
    @michailokeefeMooMoo 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Theses guys are genies’s what will they think of next. You just gotta love them

  • @FragTheFirst
    @FragTheFirst 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Really interesting one this video. Unexpected result for sure.
    An idea : how light can you machine regular pistons before they become too weak? As in drilling small, shallow holes in the bottom of them, removing wall thickness, etc? What would a lightened piston do to engine performance - higher max RPM? Faster revving up? Rougher idle?

    • @illdeletethismusic
      @illdeletethismusic 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      if you lighten all pistons the same amount you could get faster revving and higher max RPM, if you only test them one by one you will get vibrations

  • @samleen
    @samleen 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Could you make your own opposed piston engine by bolting another engine block on top?

  • @stevesmith8854
    @stevesmith8854 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting result

  • @the_kombinator
    @the_kombinator 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The footage from the drive shows like 75% old Japanese cars. It's about what I saw in Vladivostok myself.

  • @alirezaeskandari2287
    @alirezaeskandari2287 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You never clickbait that's why i love your channel.

  • @crazzzymick1
    @crazzzymick1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It would be interesting to see a video of your shop.

  • @woofgbruk5947
    @woofgbruk5947 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love the what if? factor of this channel!

  • @achecase
    @achecase 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a great channel!

  • @TestingPyros
    @TestingPyros 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was quite wild!

  • @rastamanralph6670
    @rastamanralph6670 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That gives a whole new meaning of sounding like a bag of hammers😂

  • @genehunsinger3981
    @genehunsinger3981 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    NEXT WEEK-we outfit the army with such Vlada engines!!!!And hold a parade.We are make'n a trip to France,,,,hahahahaah

    • @genehunsinger3981
      @genehunsinger3981 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes ,,my ass is draging ground,,this is GRAVITY,,,,,LOLI have no passenger door,,,,"I wonder how fast we go on high way",,,,Get the dash cam,,,we are CRUSE'N,,,,WAIT,the engine SEIZED,,,,must be $hity chiness fuel additive,,,,,LOLThey make PROBLEM,,for VIDEO.Hey Nikolay,,get out "persuader"

  • @teebosaurusyou
    @teebosaurusyou ปีที่แล้ว

    Piston skirts are oval because their load capacity is different on an axis the same as the wrist pin versus perpendicular to the axis of the wrist pin. Load capacity depends on clearance. Friction loss is also dependent on clearance. Therefore, the lower load capacity axis of the piston skirt has a larger clearance which saves friction and fuel.

  • @austinmaxi
    @austinmaxi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I think some of it is down to the design of the piston, the gudgeon pin being an interference fit in the rod, and not in the piston instead, I think made a BIG deal on why the pin holes ovaled out in the piston. If the little end would have been a floating type with the interference fit in the piston, the contact point of the pin in the piston would have been much larger to spread the load..and that there's no wear potential too, it would have worked for a lot longer..

  • @stancefraternity2641
    @stancefraternity2641 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I like your mindset, trying everything. Try big speaker magnets as piston heads.

  • @georgemckenzie7524
    @georgemckenzie7524 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I want to see you guys make a variety of different types of pistons made from different metels like lead brass if possible tungsten and even if possible Damascus steel

    • @thatguyalex2835
      @thatguyalex2835 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The Damascus Steel ones might be very durable. :)

  • @carolineverner9773
    @carolineverner9773 ปีที่แล้ว

    Remember watching the one where u made pistons out off wood I've been hooked ever since