What happens when you fit 10 head gaskets to an engine?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2021
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In this episode we try and see how far we can get with the cheapest way out there to decompress an engine (for whatever reason, be it a turbo conversion or just screwing around).
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Suggestion: make a electric-Lada using only startermotors attached to the gearbox! Lots of them! TESLADA
They are gonna need a lots of amperage for that one. Would be cool though
It wouldn't be a G54 episode without someone saying this.
Might be easier doing a hybrid type and have a generator running to help power the motors
@@chrissi.enbyYT more than a few!
Now that would be cool too see !
Garage54 employees going back to there wives after work : wife- oh so what did you do today at work? Employee - rebuilt the same lada motor 7 times
now it has more volumetric capacity and you can turbo it with high boost
I like the way your thinking
Gaskets will go flying with boost
@@antevernersson7387 And that is exactly what we want to see. :)
With a compression of 5 It sounds like a car from the 20's
Yes. But until the right amount of fuel and o2 is given. High flow injectors are needed for safety if not it blows the gaskets. Just wait for. Lol
With the low compression you will need to advance the spark by about another 10° to possibly 18°. The combustion at 8° will be far too slow, hence the blow back through the carb.
Right here ☝️
also valve timing could be wrong because cam is farther away from cam. it need to be checked..
@@AM-we5bj Exactly, this is happening. Now the distance between gears is 9mm longer, but the chain is still the same. Hence it will advance timing
@@estebanquito356 maybe 2 more link could fix problem? It it aprox 1cm per chainlink
And valve timing, as I totally missed, and so did garage 54, apparently. It would be easy to use a fully adjustable cam drive sprocket to remove this obviously apparent contributor. Ignition timing, obviously, is easy peasy.
"Runs like clockwork. Not necessarily Swiss, but clockwork nonetheless."
That is a brilliant line. I'm totally using that.
Russian clocks
Yes.
how about no head gasket. weld it on LOL
Danger to manifold!
Some Deutz engines did actually came that way without head gasket, but it has super precise machining and proper torque on bolts.
Maybe not weld, just polish and a sheet of foil.
There would be nothing to seal the water jackets
Old VW beetle engines don't have any iirc.
You guys should see how much power you can produce with a lada engine
th-cam.com/video/Jks9ZF-YS0I/w-d-xo.html
@@dot7107 That is a Nissan engine, not a Lada engine.
@@dot7107 thats an sr20 not a lada engine it’s nissan
You will get some seriously low compression. You guys come up with some pretty funny stuff. A blower would fix it just fine, at least until head gaskets started getting flung all over the shop. Another video here that was actually an interesting experiment. It occurred to me that the difference in compression should have been reducing with each gasket addition later in the experiment. I'm not too sure I can explain some of what you found, compression wise. Maybe if you were reusing gaskets the o rings getting compressed multiple times thinned them even more than a first torquing would do? But your measurement was the measurement, obviously. Fun. :-)
Edit: Yeah, timing, I get that, my bad for not thinking of it. All the above I stand by, though.
It wasn't sealing anymore, compression wasn't going down anymore because it couldn't hold any more pressure.
Oh no! I read your comment before I watched, spoilers 😭😭😭
Sorry, but no way could I fix that.
It would be interesting to see the engine on a dyno as they added the gaskets.
It messes up the cam timing, ignition timing too?
Every gasket adds the same volume which as a percentage is less for each one so there is diminishing return. That's why the drop in compression is tapering off.
Not a prediction but a guess why it stopped running at the end: I think adding the gaskets affected the valve timing. Assuming the cam gear is 20cm in diameter, adding 9mm would advance the valve timing by over 5° (or retard it, depending on the engine design?). This may be too much? The compression seemed sufficient, if not optimal.
Would be interesting to change the timing by one tooth and see if that helps.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Most likely timing chain tensioner is on the slack side so most likely they advanced the cam quite a bit.
It would be interesting to see them try the same experiment on a flathead motor, so they wouldn't have to deal with cam timing or pushrod length issues
yup. advanced the cam timing.
It affects timing because the chain on the lead side is fixed length and taut. The trailing side is lose against the tensioner. As the head moves up higher the cam gets pulled further forward in relation to the crank. Advancing the timing.
Adding gaskets has a reducing effect on compression pressure. More gaskets has less effect. Compression RATIO and compression PRESSURE are related but not the same thing. As shown by any turbo arrangement ever.
yup the timing gets affected also if you grind the head even. so do the gaskets
@@MrLarsgren changing timing, and changing gear ratios, are two totally different things
I liked the crankshaft welding video. Lets see you guys weld up a crank to have all 4 cylinders fire at the same time. Would take a cam mod also- use 4 coils to fire the plugs using one set of points.
God this channel is amazing. No bullshit, no clip bait, always amazing content and merch isn't over priced.
Now you can add a big turbo...🤩
Love how he gives a hearty laugh when things don't go to plan!
You need to try the backyard turbo trick: a quarter inch steel plate cut the same as the head gasket, and a head gasket either side of that. Add turbo, wind up boost, it'll never break*.
I've done that.
Put a big roots blower on such a thing.
Toque NOW !
Subtle as a punch in the mouth.
Low compression boosted = PT boat, racing boat stuff.
(Probably because having a whole lake to cool a 6-71 blown, low compression cast iron V8 is a very very good thing)
@@danielmiller8156 How did it work out for you? It's on my bucket list of 'stupid things to do with a car'!
@@creepingjesus5106 Works great. Did it again on an engine rebuild without a turbine. High compression pistons with a 3/16 spacer plate and it's still running with over 140k miles on the rebuild. Gets better gas mileage than it did before. In need of another rebuild, but the rest of the truck is just too tired. It's time to retire it.
The only yt channel which answers the most important questions
If you had a Dyno it would be interesting to see the power lost
He doesn't need a Dyno. He is a Dyno, lol!
"Shut it off, it's starting to glow again"
I'm always impressed by garage54's commitment to the ideas and comments.
Another really fun episode. Reusing the luminance painted Lada engine added to this episode. Really great!
These guys just keep answering questions I never knew I wanted answered
4:1 compression needs multiple spark discharge coil, plugs gapped to .025", very aggressive spark advance coming all in at a low rpm, much lower cam lift & duration with tighter valve clearance. Then it should run fine.
And it would run on just about ANYTHING too
You on to it as well :P
@@twoeightythreez even vodka and orange juice.
@@twoeightythreez so a briggs and Stratton
Check the timing as well. The extra distance of the head gaskets will change the timing.
Thank you for correcting me without having to feel all superior, like some idiot above. It WAS funny, though. According to him I know NOTHING about what I was talking about. I told him to hold the timing constant and see if the obvious other parameter change had no effect. LOL I really should have thought of this, obviously a major contributor. Oops. And yes, good point, cam timing too. I can absolutely guarantee it won't run at some compression ratio, as compression directly effects efficiency, and when it falls to near zero (will be zero at some point, fuel will not burn enough to produce much of any cylinder pressure, eventually basically none). Cheers, and thanks for the polite correction.
Why is that? Doesn't the piston travel the same distance? (just less near the top)
Isn't the chain a set size, so timing wouldn't change aside from when you decide the valves open (but same frequency -- as piston travel is the same)?
add a turbo so you can try and actually fill the volume
Vlad, glad to see you know how to do a correct compression test! Keep on keeping On! Love the channel.
I wonder how much the cam timing changes with all those gaskets, being it’s OHC. The total chain length is longer, so cam timing advances. That’s probably why it won’t run with all those gaskets. It sure sounded like an engine that was a tooth off on cam timing, that’s why even when resurfacing an OHC head you need to install an adjustable cam gear....just taking ten thousandths off is ebough to negatively affect engine performance on an OHC.
As each gasket is added, the camshaft timing would advance slightly. I suspect it's reluctance to run is more to do with the advanced timing rather than the compression ratio. If they could fit it with a vernier pulley kit they would be able to adjust the timing to suit.
I actually hosed a valve timing retarded by a tooth on an older Camry (the marks are pretty ambiguous, to my mind). Luckily it still cleared, and at least I had the sense to hand rotate it through to before trying to start it. It ran VERY badly, trying to obtain power, but still idled pretty much as normal. I would have to know the gear drive spacing on the belt to determine if the 9 mm is more than a tooth, but from my experience I suspect it is about the same as one, more or less.
Also I'd have to incorporate a brain cell or two to think about whether it advances or retards, but since the pulling side is direct gear to gear with the slack taken up on the relaxed side for at least two obvious reasons, I expect it actually advances timing, which could be worse, not sure, never screwed it up on that side, in fact that was the only time I'd done that. If Toyota put the damned marks where they aren't basically BETWEEN the two teeth it wouldn't have happened then. :-/
Here, they could have just moved back a tooth when he approached the next tooth distance, or half that way, but no idea if they did. At least then you'd only be a half tooth off, worst case. Good point.
I would suspect about1 1/2- 2 teeth at the cam :) enough to have a power loss. + ignition timing, + fuel mix..
I bet the house on it. The cam and crank timing have everything to do with why it won't run!!
@@rushunt2131 pushrods are too short now with the higher deck height also
Lada: We build engines to last a century.
Garage 54: Yeah well... Let's put it to the test
Gosh i love the crazy things you guys get yourself into!
you guys are amazing. when most others would give up and end the video , you guys keep pushing forward :)
You need to advance the ignition timing to account for the low flame speed from the lower compression. Maybe not very much either.
The old detroit 2 strokes had a blower that was used as like a scavenger pump to help the pressure in the cylinders increase.
Install a blower and give it another go.
Or take a head gasket off and fit a massive turbo on it and see how much boost it can handle.
To stop the oil leak het some of that copper gasket spray and spray all the gaskets with it and see if the oil stops leaking
Lada s are freaking bombproof love this channel 😁👍😎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This channel dont run out of ideas, incredible
The cam timing is way off! Thats why it runs extra poor.
Can you do the opposite now? Sanding the head off or remove the gasket or use thinner gasket and see what happens. Thanks in advance, i love these videos.
The engine will get higher compression and at a certain compression ratio it will start knocking by uncontrolled combustion
Won't the pistons hit the valves?
You guys do some crazy tests, one of the better experimental auto channels on youtube.
This old man is the best. Always works hard behind the camera.
I did this years ago with an engine i was turbocharging, the compression ratio was too high so instead of buying a decompression plate, i used two gaskets
Going back > 40 years here...
I had an old (pre crossflow) 1500cc Ford Kent motor which had VW pistons and was overbored to 1632cc
The block was 'tired' (and worn oval) so rather than risking another overbore with already thin cylinder walls, I threw a spare block at it.
What I didn't realise at the start was that the new block had been decked quite a bit such that the piston crown was now 0.020 ABOVE the deck causing valve-to-piston clearance issues
Instead of mucking around with the (already assembled) short block, I simply threw 2 head gaskets at it and that worked fine.
The new 'problem' was that it would blow head gaskets after 50-100 miles! (Not helped by the increased compression ratio than with the old block)
I 'cured' that problem by re-torquing the heads multiple times in the first 50 miles as the gaskets slowly 'squished' to their final height (but only AFTER I had blown several head gaskets figuring it out).
My 'record' time for a head gasket(s) swap was just under 20 minutes! (The head was removed and refitted with ALL of the intake and extractors still attached. The longest single task was adjusting valve lash!)
Why not, except for the obvious question, how long did it hold up? Also with an aluminum block aluminum head engine you can strip block threads easily. Many engines do that as a matter of course. My current Camry did at 185k.
I literally removed the back center bolt with my fingers on disassembly. The two beside it weren't much better, but at least they required a wrench, almost no torque though.
A lot of people speculated that the insulation bib back there for the intake manifold is the culprit, but I suspect it is much more the fact that the cooling channels there looked very puny compared to the others and if I remember correctly had a very large we between them.
I don't know what percentage of cooling occurs directly off the head/block when aluminum (next to none with cast iron, I expect, my brother, as a thermodynamicist could calculate each case, but he's retired for a reason :-) ).
I'm guessing the coolant flow does BY FAR the majority of it. BTW, if this happens to you, a guy named Hahn (I think) makes a FAR superior fix to the stupid timeserts with courser larger threads on the steel insert. The stupid time certs provide a kit to FIX their earlier kit failures...WTH...looked elsewhere when I saw that. Why wouldn't they just fix their current kit by going directly to the larger diameter inserts, OR the obvious, put in courser larger threads? Sometimes I despair for my profession (electrical, though, retired, in my case). So far, so good. Fingers crossed.
Not only is your valve timing off with 6 or more gaskets, your spark timing is also off.
On the Lada motor the distributor is driven by the oil pump drive, not the cam so spark timing would not be affected.
This guys will never run out of ideas.
I'm happy to see G54 doing good. 👍
Another fun video. You guys ever thought about welding two 4-cylinder LADA engines together to form a V-8? That would be really cool!
They however did just that but merging them in line - both 2- and 3-engine variants xD
@Mike These guys cut a crankshaft then welded it back together.They could cut and weld a crankshaft into a V8 configuration to make it work.Then weld two 4-cyl blocks together.This is Garage-54,nothing is impossible!
@Mike You should have a look at the H1-V8, two 4-cylinder Hayabusa engines combined into a single V8. Although to be fair they made a custom short block to accommodate the 90-degree V setup but its still the closest thing to "combine two 4-cylinder engines into a V8" I've ever seen. Id imagine this might be too much for Garage-54.
Good call
@Mike It can be "U" engine
I love ingenuity and the straight up fact's just as any engineer. Hey man putting Ivan on the spot in front of the camera. Brilliance takes time. I enjoy this explanations of Russian's point of view in mechanical engineering. This world is so much more beautiful now , glory be to the Russian People and Glory be to the American people. Thank you for your patience and diligence in a fun education for the world.
Ivan deserves more pocket money for being put on the spot like that :')
Every time I see one of your videos I already know what's going to happen , but I watched the awesomeness anyway .
My guess would be that It would starts to loose all compression
the camshaft timing is now too early...
Back in the 80’s when gas was crap I lowered the compression on my 68 Z/28 by adding an extra gasket. That was over thirty years ago and it’s still runs like a champ :-)
Sooo good. Love you guys!
I once got a zip tie between my engine and head, and had to disasamble it again...
Might as well try the opposite extreme. Shave down the block. The Pingsmobile.
Soren Kuula they could have done that with the diesel to petrol conversion. An experiment to run if they decide to convert another diesel engine.
With the extra gaskets and lower compression you should see how well the motor takes to turbo boost next. Might be a potential for performance gain but will it last or will the boost cause the gaskets to blow out over time? Would be a really great experiment!
Like others have mentioned, I think you guys need to tweak the ignition timing. You may need to tweak or tune up some other things in the ignition system such as the condition of the points, the point dwel, and maybe a fuel-air adjustment is needed. Essentially, you need to do a tune up, but you have the added challenge of not having the specs that you need to tune to due to your head gaskets.
What if you use a chain to replace a serpentine belt
Молодцы, ребята. Мне всегда нравятся твои новые видео. Вы можете делать все, что мы всегда хотели сделать.
Liquid nitrogen as engine coolant
Buddy, go watch garage 54 the OG one it's 100% in russian
Awesome work
I've always wondered, and now I know. Thank you.
Lost compression 🤷♂️
Pre-experiment comment - If skimming the head & fitting thinner gaskets increases compression, and therefore performance (if tuned properly), then adding more gaskets will probably make this engine run like a bag of wet noodles, assuming the stack doesn't blow out or something...
These guys could do anything and I’d find it entertaining
The Kawasaki FB460v 12.5hp vertical shaft engine has a 6 to 1 compression ratio and they are very durable long lasting engines. One that I had on a little Wheel Horse 252-H had between 2000 and 3000 hours on it when I dismantled the tractor and it still ran fine, just didn’t start as quickly when cold.
I think they'll blow out the side at some point.
Or the top..
Sleeve/spacer/displacement options?..
Great stats though.
Diesels, opposing pistons
Curious too!
Would not the elevation of the head cause an advance in the valve timing?
Yup
@@sb350allday can't picture valve timing change...the cogs have remained the original size?
This is the best channel on TH-cam ! 👍👍
Try no head gasket using different gasket sealent. Definitely worth the try and if it can be a quick fix to get someone home who can't get the part then would be great.
I think the valve timing is to far off. If you change the distance between the crankshaft and the camshaft you change the valvetiming because of the timing chain too.
Boosting a NA engine be like:
i guess it's viable when you don't have a decompression plate
Always best channel ever.
When you lift the head like that it actually changed the valve timing some and when you lower the compression you need to lean out the mix a little
This would be a good way to lower compression for a turbo 🤔
No! A good way to lower compression is to use a spacer and 2 gaskets, not 10.
@@petermerkin6428 budget build brah🤣
Amazing to see the difference even with 2 gaskets. 👍👍🇬🇧
Add a turbo to the gaskets or nitro. love the work guys keep it up and the extreme experiments
My 150cc motorbike compression ratio is 1:9.5. After 6 years hard work, compression pressure is only 5 bars now, and it's still rideable up to 105kmh. Originally top speed was 120. So, I think your engine compression is not an issue right now. It should run smoothly on idle speed.
Love the channel!! just an idea for a future video, converting an engine to be used as an air compressor like they did with the old VW air cooled engine. 2 cylinders powered the motor and the other 2 provided the air for the tank. Or could always use a motor with more cylinders? Just a thought! 👍🏼
"Bro I think you have a blown head gasket"
"Ok, 9 remaining"
Good morning, your videos are amazing, no one in the world does what you guys do! congratulations! I was surprised by this test of the head gaskets! the engine supported up to 6 joints! if it were in my country (brazil) (worst gas in the world) almost 30 percent alcohol, i believe that no engine can support 3 head gaskets!
I wonder how the engine would have ran if the valve timing was dialled back to stock. (It would be very advanced during this experiment) I was amazed how well that plucky Lada engine did though! Enjoyed this video
When he said hey Ivan I almost shat myself
With supercharging induction or turbo you are force packing the extra space in the cylinder making it run again.
Lifting the head changes the valve timing. The amount can be calculated.
If it is enough you can compensate by skipping a tooth.
If not machining an offset keyway on the sprocket or shaft would work
if it uses a keyway.
Also an old stretched chain would be useful for testing.
I know that it used to be common to stack multiple headgaskets and metal plates together to lower the compression of an NA- engine to turbo it. But it usually just ended up being engine- block -> headgasket -> metal plate -> headgasket -> engine- head, no more than that... :)
2 leaked last mistake I made a few years ago..,now 10? More power to ya man lol
Hahaha i opened the youtube app and this title came out of nowhere to the point i died laughing, everytime it's so random that it's glorious
Definitely increase the timing advance significantly. What would be neat is to see you use a head that is 14:1 (or more) compression ratio on E85. Increase/decrease timing just under it knocking, you should get a ton more power.
I'd never heard of such a simple approach for running lower octane fuel. My country is full of unimaginative people.
Adding a turbo would let you run an absolutely MONSTROUS amount of boost just to get back up to a normal compression ratio again. It would be a fun sequel video to turbo it and see how much boost is required to reach the original compression ratio again, if it will hold together.
I wish you showed more. How did you get the timing chain and on with the growing stack of head gaskets? How much adjustment did you have ?
i have that same compression tester. its way off when using the long rubber hose. i noticed 20psi difference when using the metal fitting with the rubber cone.
As you raise the head further from the block, it rotates the overhead cam further and further changing the cam timing.
just let me say: i don't know but i'm going to watch and find out! go on garage 54!
I'm thinking maybe advance the ignition timing and check the cam timing, it will have effect on the compression ratio. Neat video!
I wonder if you you compensated chain timing, now that the head is 9mm farther away from the block, it might mean it is off by one tooth, making the spark ignition, and valves go off too.
Great video ideas, go where no other engine or car has gone before.
Add a turbo to keep compression up, extend timing chain, longer head bolts, and guide sleeves for oil/coolant ports.
55 head gaskets!
install some longer reach spark plugs so that the igniton of th emixture is lower in the combustion chamber , hence igniting the mixture sooner? Also, the cam timing, because of the longer chain required will be changed?
The timing changes when you raise the head If you put the chain with one tooth off you might be able to start it again
Needed some sort of boost whether it’s a turbo or supercharger high boost while dumping fuel should help
when running nitrous oxide a lower compression is needed alongside larger ring gaps. maybe try some no2
Could you be changing valve timing with the extra distance on the chain like when you resurface a head too much.
Increasing the block to head distance also increases the crank to cam (OHC) distance, but the chain is not lengthened to compensate. Therefore the cam will have to be rotated (advanced) a bit to engage the chain with the cam teeth, so now the cam timing is advanced to the point where things get dicey..
Imagine loosening the head WITHOUT removing the timing chain.
Now start to lift the head away from the block.
The cam will rotate forward (advancing itself) the more distance you create.
Finally , a solution to the subaru problem
you might need 24V to the starter to get it turning fast enough to start.
you could also increase manifold pressure to get to start. "leaf blower might be enough"
having the ignition start before TDC might also help as the flame front takes time to denonate