I would 3D print a mold and use unidirectional carbon fiber as well to wrap around the pin end with a molded in metal bushings. The bottom end probably needs redesigning to take advantage of the material.
Yeah. Moulded carbon parts get their strength from the fibres. If you start cutting holes through the strands in high stress areas it's going to end badly. I've been thinking about how it could be done, but I keep coming back too prepreg carbon ribbon, a multi part compression mould, and an autoclave...... You think Vlad fancys shelling out for all that?......... FOR SCIENCE ? :D
@@Reman1975 Well, they could've at least made a decent mould. They could've waxed the freakin mould and apply release agent. It's not difficult! But... they used a bent conrod for the mould. The mould itself was a disaster. The layers were not wetted after being applied. The fibre orientation was all over the place. The resin infusion was wrong from start to finish (the mid centre layers were bone dry). No steel insert on the small end... and so on. Composites are not quantum physics. Even when working with limited equipment, common sense still applies.
Unless lm mistaken, you need to close the resin intake line and draw full vaccuum before introducing the resin. This will help with air pockets, and let you fill the part more effectively.
The parts are strong at room temperature, but I don't think the resin will ever hold up under localized heat and pressure like this no matter how well the resin "flows".
@@scdevon You may be able to get higher heat resins, but I think an ICE engine will always tend to melt composites, at least the ones we know. Who knows what will be developed, but I think alloy metals are the way for now.
What a gas.. you guys.. I wish I was young again I would come and hang out with you nuts. I worked on cars since I was 14 and rebuilt my first car engine.. before that I used to rebuild lawn mower engines.. Keep it up boys and thanks for sharing the fun!
@@shaunconklin5694 if you are a content creator, then sure. If you want to actually make money from it or build an engine, you do research and don't waste money
My thoughts is having 2 con rods that are so much lighter is causing the motor timing to be off, or those rods are trying to out rotate the other 2 non carbon rods due to their weight. I'm confident if you did all 4 rods you'd get a better result
@@davidjernigan8161 As long as the crank alone would already be fairly balanced there is no need. It is a flat plane inline 4 with two outer and two inner journals move together so inherently balanced For example, certain motorcycle racing classes back then (AMA Superbike and others) require use of *stock and unmodified* crankshafts or even heavier ones than stock from the OEM (Kawasaki did for the ZX-7(R)/ZXR750) but they use titanium rods and custom/aftermarket billet or forged pistons
I call it a win as the fact it ran and drove I was amazed,I expected the second the engine started both rods would let go and it would lock solid,well done for the hard work that must have taken
Uhm. Carbon fiber has a higher tensile strength than steel. Remember. This is a poorly made rod in someone’s garage. Not a 3d printed piece made by a manufacturer to extremely accurate tolerance. Ie. Much higher quality. Kinda like milling put a steel rod by hand vs milling one with a CNC. Same shit. But ultimately it wouldn’t break because it’s carbon. It would break because it just isn’t made wel enough. Respect for the effort though.
Try CNC machining the conrods out of a block of multiple layered CFRP of same thickness as crank journal's width. I think it would do it Update: add optimization to tha mix, i.e run CF strands across where you need more overall strength
What if you make the rods in sandwich layers say (10 or even 15) in the shape of the rods, I think it will be stronger. Also when laying, put the weave in a 45 degree angle each time you put in a layer and a resin in between.
It won’t make any difference as the stress comes from multiple directions due to the motion of the conrod and the resin breaks down with the heat and oil
I really enjoy your videos. I am a master mechanic in Canada and used to work at a Lada dealership in Ottawa. I liked the Ladas, very crude but tough and super easy to repair. Keep up the good work.
I had the pleasure of owning a brand new 1990 Lada Estate Wagon. Lots of fun, qiute realiable, and cheap / easy to fix when it needed help. It did rust out though, after 10 years.
Yes, they did have a reputation of slop from the beginning, but that would stay the same till it rusted apart. Yes get up and go, got up and went, but there was nothing the Lada could not climb, much to the chagrin of the 4x4 clubs, where the only thing that stopped them was rocks so big even the Land Cruiser was bottoming out, the Lada 4x4 was simply able to idle over all obstacles, and climb almost vertical slopes. Plus so cheap that you had no worries about damaging it, your Lada was cheaper than repairing the Land Cruiser, and you could just panel beat it back into rough shape, and carry on. Plus the engine bay you could climb in to to work on the engine, and the full size spare, high lift jack, good tool kit and starter handle were standard. OK not the fastest, or the lightest on fuel, but had a really good heater, and AC you opened the window. Still a fair number of them running around, rust in close formation.
i'm in the design phase of doing this for a lawnmower. need more material around the cap bolts especially if you have the space. a layer of resin after machining might of helped too.
You will have to fill the carbon sheet in Helically from the bottom (big end) inwards to get the layers in the right place to prevent the being nothing but resin and misaligned fibre holding the big end bolt fittings together.
Carbon fibre struggles to deal with the oily, hot environment, and its porosity can result in the churning of the oil. Also, its lack of density (which is also what makes it so light compared to metal parts of the same size) means it needs to have less compact parts, despite its high strength to weight ratio. The latter problem is what happened here.
Its possible it could be used in high horsepower engines for short periods like one or two runs down a drag strip with an all motor no turbo or nitrous engine🤔
@@fleurdewin7958 Maybe. You cannot easily make a fibre-composite gear, but pulleys may be slightly easier. I think a big issue would be that the fibres would be experiencing lateral forces that would make it so that the resin would be bearing most of the load, which is obviously not good. However, I am not a materials scientist so I could not say for certain if this is the case.
Wow incredible that you even could start it! I never expected that!!! I think if you adjust the shape of the rod to the new material and make it from one piece it will last.
The strength of carbon fibre composite is in tailoring the layup to resist the stresses; you need to wrap the fibre around the eye (a metal insert fitted at the start of the layup). Similarly with the big end, fit metal inserts for the bolts, and wrap the fibres around those tubes to hold everything together, as well as wrapping around the bearing cap and along the length of the rod. You really need to use something like FEA to figure out how much fibre to wrap in which direction. It's like forged rods are stronger than cast, because the forging adds strength in the direction of the parts but cast is the same strength in all directions, which is down to the size and orientation of the crystalline structure.
Super cool project thanks for doing all the work so we could see. Im sure you could get them to work in some combination but that would probably take a couple more tries and alot of long hours working with carbon fiber.
These guys are on the cutting edge. Fabricating carbon fiber parts... I've noticed their toolset expanding with each video, but this I didn't see coming. Makes me wonder if the ability to use carbon fiber will become more widespread in the future. That would be pretty cool.
Amazing video guys, one of my favourites. Fantastic proof of concept. I bet if someone (or a company) with experience in carbon fiber parts, tried this, this could really become a viable option for replacement parts just like other car parts are made from carbon fiber. My other favourite videos from you guys are the starter motor as a supercharger, transparent radiator, crankshaft weld-up, and spring-loaded clutch! Keep up the great work.
Wow that was interesting, reminded me of my engine build in 1966 a 1957 Olds for my 1947 Chevy. Carbon Fiber ?? I had used Carbon Fiber 1st in 1978 for CT Scanner patient support. It was fairly translucent to Xray and Stiff as well. But that was a static part. In 1985 I used Carbon Fiber again for a robotic arm for a large industrial welder. Light weight, stiff and easy to control Vibration. But not heated or seriously stressed in small joints. The Connecting rod as we saw; Has a lot of stress at the fasteners, and heat from the engine and bidirectional forces changing direction rapidly. It's a really serious strength test for any material. Certainly you picked up on the need for design change required to add material at the stress point. Thicker wider wrist pin and rod bolt areas. But using a whole-strand has strength mostly in compression. It relies on the resin to handle other forces. In one project the Navy needed tougher Buoys for the sea environment. They tried Carbon Fiber but needed it to be lighter. The used Mirco-glass bubbles mixed in with the resin for lighter weight but still strong enough, it worked. I used those micro spheres to reduce X Ray absorbing on the thick edges of the patient support/ It worked! Now in the case of Connecting rods I would think if Automakers can press connecting rods from Powdered Metal. You could mix powdered metal into the resin for added strength to the Rod overall and then instead of a weak vacuum, use something like an autoclave to heat cure under very high pressure the rod assembly. Now with added material in the weaker points (wrist pin and rod bolts) plus powdered Metal in the Resin and High pressure curing You just might have a Connecting Rod that could handle a gas engine. for fun. how about a carbon fiber Housing for an electric motor and see if you can replace the gas engine with carbon Fiber Electric Motor. Save the Planet but still build fun cars with powerful engines and motors. Stay safe, Stay well, keep thinking and doing, what else do we live for. Dennis in Virginia
Did not know the reason would cure properly in the 100% humidity of an autoclave! I guess since hardening is just a chemical reaction with resins, it's fine?
This was amazing but they gotta try making them different ways and maybe with some carbon tow to increase strength in specific places also maybe try casting one with chopped fiber
I was thinking this could actually work really well if they used the, carbon fiber and titanium "alloy" that Pagani used to rigidifiy there chassis, because the titanium would handle the compression and expansion better, and the carbon fiber would aid in that.
They actually use carbon fiber rods in drags racing with 2000hp+ cars, but they need to be changed after 100 passes they can and do work and work well if made correctly
I see several companies claiming they can make them but I can't find any examples of them actually being used. Do you know who is using them? I'm interested because I've never seen carbon fiber parts succesfully used in compressive loading applications and if they managed to pull that off I want to know how they did it.... The only thing i can think of is maybe its a metal core rod wrapped in carbon fiber to use the tensile strength of the carbon fiber to increase strength of the metal core by preventing deformation from buckling... but a solid carbon fiber rod seems designed for failure so I'm genuinly curious about this.
The strength of composites is based on the orientation of the fibers in relation to the stress loads. Carbon fiber layups are not like an isotropic material and cannot be treated as an isotropic material. Careful thought and design needs to be taken into consideration.
using unwoven fabric of carbon fiber can't compensate for this ? the main issue here seems to be the lack of material. Even aluminium conrod are way more beefy than the steel ones.
@@jeffrykopis5468 isotropic means it doesn't have the same material properties (in this case applied to forces) in all directions. I.E. it has directional orientation based strength
In other carbon fiber videos I've seen, each layer of carbon is soaked with resin as it's being laid down. Those videos aren't using vacuum, but it might be helpful if you have trouble with the resin penetration.
The vacuum should pull out air, compress the fabric and pull out excess resin, for the highest fabric to resin ratio. I don't have a vacuum setup, but I have used sand, over a separater film to compress some things I've made. (Not nearly as good as a vacuum, but better than just atmospheric pressure.) I'm curious about the resin used. Mine is good to about 140 F, if I remember correctly.
... and while its an intermittent pulse of force lasting less than 10 deg of crank rotation, the rapid combustion force spread out over the top of the piston is roughly 21,000 psi pushing down on the rod. Also not sure what you used for resin, but most resins and epoxy will fail at those temperatures found inside an engine after warm-up, amplified by the lack of an oil cooler. Cool video guys! Always wondered if someone would try this.
Prepared worked for a pocket bike 2 stroke con rod in a single layup with an H prefabricated core holding the undersized bearings on center. Clamped the experiment within a 2 part CNC'd mold. For rare occasions with more time available than brains. Now back to our regularly scheduled entertainment for the climax.
It's impressive that you were able to make these in your own shop and have them last any length of time. There are carbon fiber con-rods on the market. But, they are very rare, very expensive, and not intended for street use at this time. After seeing carbon fiber brake rotors and pads, I figured it was only a matter of time before something like engine components would make their way onto the scene.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly when I was translating this one. I remembered how Horacio Pagani was trying to convince Lamborghini to acquire an industrial grade autoclave (and was unable to, if I remember correctly).
@@SwapBlogRU Lamborghini/Audi did do research into this. If you google carbon conrods speedhunters has an article about it back in 2018 november i think. Lambo is planning to use them in 2021 but that was pre covid. So i dno. If anyone is gonna invent Cf rods its gonna be Koenigsegg
@@rageauto1291 "If anyone is gonna invent Cf rods its gonna be Koenigsegg" I have nothing to add to that, Christian von Koenigsegg is a genius (especially when it comes to carbon fiber) and one of the greatest inspirations in the automotive world.
"Thiiiissss is a Lada, but not an ordinary Lada. This Lada has two carbon fiber con rods. First, we will see how the con rods were made, then I will drive it and then give it a Doug Score," Doug DeMuro.
This is a perfect example of how an excellent material for one application, may be terrible for another. I believe the problem is the polymer melts at too low of a temperature. Carbon fiber may be able to be used in high temperature engine components if it's combined with a high temperature material (metal perhaps? Don't even know if that's possible) regardless thanks for trying it guys! It's cool to see what actually happened.
With the pistons being 1/4th the weight wouldn’t the counter weights on the crankshaft need to be lightened? Then you also run into the issue of the other pistons being heavier than the carbon fiber ones. I think if they made all 4 carbon fiber pistons with lightened crankshaft it might run better.
yea that's where the vibration came from. They should have known that. That's basic engine building knowledge. Can you imagine over 800 grams of imbalance rotating.
Kyocera a Japanese ceramics company made a complete ceramic gasoline engine in the 1970’s. It actually worked! The friction was almost nonexistent as the ceramic material absorbed oil and kept both the rods and pistons clean well lubricated at all times.
So glad to see content being out out. And it doesn't look the subscribers are falling off anymore. The ones that left are the type ya don't want enjoying your genius content anyway
Great channel, I am glad to see a VAZ2121 in other words a Niva, I am proud to say I am a former Niva 1600cc owner , I hope we’ll see much more of those here , keep doing what you are doing
Great work, just a thaught, perhaps layer pre-soaked carbon fiber sheets into a stack and then put them in a press until they cure and then CNC cut and mill the part to size. maybe the pressed higher density would add more strength?
There are some top fuel drag cars experimenting with carbon fiber con rods. They are able to handle upwards of 10,000 hp. The carbon fiber definitely has the ability to handle the stresses, but it has to be made with a lot of care. I think the best way to make conrods with available equipment is to use forged carbon with continuous strands laid in the direction of the conrod, and then using a press to squeeze the mold.
Compared to steel, Carbon is 3x-4x 'stronger', in terms of ultimate and yield strength under a compressive load.... But it is not nearly as 'tough'. Steel can take more of a beating, since it isn't as stiff. It can spring. Carbon is too brittle, and I think a thicker connecting rod would have the same results. Carbon is ideal in a situation where it is constantly loaded, (bearing strength is incredibly high) but going from nearly no load on the exhaust stroke/intake stroke to very high compressive load on compression/power stroke is making the worst property of carbon come out: it is brittle. Also, the crank is balanced and counterweighted for a much heavier connecting rod. This extra vibration from the crank is not good for brittle carbon.
I think the rods would work if they did like a giant chunk of carbon fiber kinda like a billet piece compress it to like 30,000 psi to dry and machine it down. Then also figure out a way to add say an aluminum bearing housing inside the rod to hold the bearing still better. It would definitely require some science behind getting the piece of aluminum inside the mold in exact spot. And some kind of demples or short spikes to hold bearing housing still inside rod then actual bearings could be inserted. Or the bearing could actually be what I called bearing housing too.
@@spankthemonkey3437 why? You could just machine out a mold and make the part in one go. Composites aren’t the same as solid metal. Different processes to manufacture it, different properties, etc.
True. Machine a block of multiple layers within the resin layer rather than the fiber layer keep the sheets together to minimize sheering some grommets in the end caps would be the issue
To release parts from the mold easily apply a very thin lubricant to the mold like Vaseline VERY THIN before putting in the carbon fiber and after it's dried use compressed air around the corners of the part and it will literally fly off the mold :)
CF is strong but it's strength is directional. Lamborghini went around this by using shaved cf that is compressed in resin instead of layered ones. The compression also forces are aching along the grain and torsional ones with the crank moving to 90 and 270 help to twist the layers apart. Garage 54 never dissapoints. When do you guys ever work? 😀
cool experiment and possibly with a better stronger design professionally made they may work some day, but moral of the story for now is, metal connecting rods are stronger than carbon fiber rods.
Consider this. There's already a market for them, I'd say their machinist was of by a small amount. However the sheer weight of the other two metal rods is what caused the damage, it's too much rotational torque and despite the strength of CF it doesn't change the fact it still breaks.
It will probably require 2 molds in combination to form the 2 halves properly with vacuum and heat to cure properly. Also you may need to make it thicker in material initially before any machining is done. The whole thing needs be made into as solid of a piece as humanly possible to ever stand a chance. Cross layering is essential for strength to carbon fiber.
I really enjoy your show and I'm sad to see what's happening in the world I hope you and your fellow brothers understand you being mostly lies God bless you God bless freedom let's see you build some crazy cars in the future love you brother
Try a design using 2x2 twill each lay 45degree to each other, sandwiched with some random fibre patterns. Also use resin infusion method which will give you a tight lamination and a better fibre to matrix ratio (you can even use an autoclave to add additional atmospheres onto the part when under vacuum and heat if using pre preg) for what you are doing you need the best ratio possible due to to the matrix being brittle and the fibre flexible having a bad fibre to matrix will make the part too brittle as it was. The main issue is that composites hate being In compression and when compressed delaminate once they have started to delaminate all strength is lost and they rapidly fail.
What if you made a whole brick out of the carbon fiber and then cut and milled the rods out of that peice with additional material to compensate for the weak points?
Real forged carbon might be an option but it isn't stronger due to the fibers being separated and non-oriented to the direction of stress; you can manually add long 'binder' strips to help. By real, hydraulic pressing is involved, normally starting at the 100 ton level. It is definitely easier to use for complex shapes like this connecting rod, aside from the actual laying part as it gets attached to your gloves and such during manual layup. You just stuff it into a mold, having measured for resin to carbon ratio ahead of time.
First of all. Love the show. I am a big fan but i want to give some positive criticism There are numerous issues with the making the rod. 1. It needs kevlar reinforcing. Crabon is very strong but very brittle. Kevlar will add to that impact attenuation. Aramid fibers will be the best use for this. 2. Layering infusion on pure vacume alone wont work. You need to 3D print the mould and forge the carbon under high pressue. Autoclave might be needed. I doubt one was availible. 3. The main issue is its a composite the carbon can take the force but the issue is the resin. The resin cant handle the insides of an engine. The heat and oil breaks down the resin. Normal resins come apart at 60 to 80 deg Celcius. No manufacturer has figured out how to bypass this. I think the highest temp resin availible is 120 deg C. Stil lower than what is needed 4. The piston is heavier and that force its transfered into the carbon. You need a lighter piston also. 5. Throwing it on the ground creates small fractures. Carbon is brittle suden impacts are bad. 6. They need to be made thicker and reinforcing needs to be added to the design. A H beam design should be used for example. 7. The thermal expansion is different for CF. This affects your bearing clearances. Carbon has low thermal expansion. The bearong draw does not account for that. So the bearings ecpand from heat fracturing the conrod from the inside of the crank journal outwards. 8. Machining and cutting CF creates small fractures. If you combine those two youbget a recipe for failure (see dehaveland commet failure). Carbin fibre has to be cast with all points mounts and holes already included in the desin.. 9. The shapes are all wonkey. They need to be perfectly striaght to transfer the forces properly onto the crank journal. 10. You cant machine it at all. You need to cast it onto a metal type bushing of some type and ream those bushings to the correct specs. 11. Not all carbon fiber was manufactured equal. 12. You guys whacked it with a hammer to get it out the mould. Composits can easily crack like that I know its not the Garage54 way but those you made are 1/100th of what a proper deisgn can do. But even if you manage that you stil cant get past the termal limit of the resin. If you want more details PM me. Id love to help you guys out with some research im doing also. Pretty sure one can make it work with proper design and manufacture methods
Nah, this is Garage 54. You can give them a pile of rusted rebar and they find a way to make it drive around the block a couple of times. And this only half-destroyed Lada? I bet we will see it again in some future experiment.
love your content and we care for you and your staff. My heart is with you and the kind other Russians that are on the wrong side of this conflict, Ukraine is not your enemy.
Where was your country in the war in iraq and creation of ISIS? Peace needs to be worldwide, war never stopped. Russia is on the wrong side of history right now but really the powers at be need to STOP TAKING TURNS Also the european dependence on russian energy increasing in the past 8 years is very telliing... politicians don't care about the war at all, they were fine with putin attacking ukraine up until the fullscale invasion... like somehow only small incursions on human life are okay or something.
@@Industry-insider 300 degrees will seriously weaken the epoxy in structural applications. It might not melt or burn, but it can't survive 300 degrees while heavily loaded. There are some high temperature epoxies available but they are special. Probably very expensive and toxic.
Hey guys, I know I'm late to the party but I just wanted to say, whenever you're working with carbon fiber it's really important to wear good masks. Carbon fiber dust is really bad for you. Stay safe ya'll :)
You have to get your crank balanced, as the piston+rod had a big weight reduction, the balancing weight at the crank need to be shaved off so much weight to get your crank assemly balance out properly. The revs will go up due to lighter inertia. But with an unbalanced assembly your crank bearings will worn indefinitely and exess vibration will kill rod bearings in very short time
I really respect what you do in your shop. You may want to look up Project Farm for some ideas he hasn't worked on yet. I think this will not work very long, but hope that it does. Carbon fibre is the building material of the future, It may yet replace heavier parts in an internal combustion engine making it lighter and more fuel efficient. I believe the part of the piston rod that makes contact with the crankshaft and piston will remain metal due to the stress and sudden change in motion it has to do, but the rest of the part could be carbon fibre. I will watch with interest.
You should try forged carbon. It’s all payed up at once so there’s no issue with dis I ding and because it’s squeezed together it will be solid and more dense than separate plies. Y’all did a great job I’d love to see one more attempt!
Take 2 pins of the right diameter, and wind carbon fibre string between then to make a core. Then use more string to wrap around the long length of string, so as to make the long lengths pull together. You will need to leave the long wrap loose, so the wrap can pull them tight together, probably also first making a circle around the bores, so there is an even layer, then wrap the string lengthwise and then pull together in a wrap. Then you can use the mat to make the outside, using that vacuum form to make a wood replica, that has larger dimensions for the split area, and also wind more string around that area as well. No reason the composite should not be as strong as steel, just needs to be aligned correctly, not with a woven mat, as that is merely good as a panel, you need strength only in one direction, for both compression and tension. Thus the long string for tension, and the tight wrap for the compression side. After all the long length of the rod did not fail, but the attach points did, so you need to beef those up, and using carbon fibre string is the best for that, to allow you to control the direction of force.
Quite the fun project this was although I’d make them thicker, do all 4 for balance purposes and add that hard thick resin shine coating for rigidity and holding power, and make further enhancements for the connecting rod bearings. Well done nonetheless and amazing work!
I learned to do casting of crankshaft and heads at my father's shop that's how we made the bulk of our money obsolete diesel engines we got contracted to recast new blocks and heads because they didn't want to replace the motors themselves I had a hand carved out of Wax a whole lot of the parts and that was before we took the the wax mold and encased it into epoxy resin I had to coat the whole part even though it was made out of wax in linseed oil to help upon separation I think if you take the carbon fiber strips and cut them down 2 cm square that will also allow a lot more density in the fiber making a two piece mold the way I did out of the original part save time the typecasting we did was known vacuum casting it allows for a more even density throughout the metal
Interestingly I was watching a video about carbon conrods recently, the takeaway is that while the carbon is strong the resin that holds it together isnt up for the stress and heat cycles in the engine. Maybe for race applications but aluminum is already better
Fundamental problem here is the loading on the connecting rod and the material properties of carbon fiber. At TDC the force transmitted through the rod is compressive. Carbon fiber offers virtually no strength or stiffness in the compressive axial direction. In compression, the strength and stiffness is nearly 100% derived from the matrix (epoxy generally). While the carbon would offer some benefit in the bending stresses of the beam while the crankshaft is at 90 and 270 degrees the compressive force needs to be addressed.
There are rolls of resin, a sheet of resin, that you gotta keep it in a freezer at negative temperatures. Maybe -20 °C but i don't remember really well. What you have to do is you get the roll of sheet resin, that has a film of paper that you peel off when you have a 3meters long piece and you stick the sheet of resin on the sheet of carbon fiber. When you put a pice of carbon fiber with the resin sticked to it on the mold, you take a hot air blowing gun on 100-135 °C or more. Do not reach 200 because the piece of carbon will slide all over the place on the resin and make a mess. в листах есть рулоны смолы. у вас должен быть большой морозильник, чтобы хранить ролл при температуре -20 или ниже, я не помню ... когда вы берете рулет, однако, вы должны ждать, пока он нагреется до комнатной температуры или если нет, напоминают, что если его развернуть, смола рассыплется на куски. возьмите лист углеродного волокна той же длины, что и лист из смолы, возьмите смолу и положите ее на лист из углеродного волокна. но сначала снимаем слой бумаги, который отделяет смолу. когда пойдете прокладывать стык, возьмите пистолет, который стреляет горячим воздухом на 100°С и выше, но не выше 200. хорошо давить по углам и по всем кривым и углам. на готовую форму уходит лист пластика и один лист чистого хлопка. вы кладете его в пакет и вставляете в него клапан, который вакуумирует пакет с помощью компрессора. мешок должен находиться под вакуумом, когда он находится в духовке.
Rods don't only need to be strong, they also need to flexible. A rod changes direction several thousands times a minute. If your rod can't stretch, it will break.
i think i would make a steel skeleton and then add the carbon fiber it would be alot lighter and maybe might last and id just leave the rods square wouldnt worry about the rod being exactly like the regular rod shape!! good video pretty freaking cool guys!!
carbon infused metal has been used before, most notably carbo-tanium that Pagani uses. I think RND costs is what's holding it back from major manufacturers. As some one else stated in the comments, 3d printing forged carbon fiber may be the way to go
Ford uses carbon fibre wheels on the gt350r mustang. Something that is usually forged aluminum or magnesium in similar applications. This is a giant maybe.
I really appreciate how much time you guys put into this work. Even when things may not work out, you guys still give it 107%. Thank you!
I never saw how carbon fiber was done (flowing the resin)... This was cool.
Don’t know till you try.
Totally agree. I always appreciated the amount of work they put into these experiments.
The only thing they can do better is try again!
"Even when things may not work out"
You're watching garage54, the less it works the more fun.
I would 3D print a mold and use unidirectional carbon fiber as well to wrap around the pin end with a molded in metal bushings. The bottom end probably needs redesigning to take advantage of the material.
I was thinking the same thing, the fiber was splitting, laying the fiber in a cross cross patters would help.
I'm sure Boeing or Mclaren Technologies Ltd would do the same.
However, a garage in the middle of Siberia?! Nah... it's not happening.
Yeah.. that sounds like it might work.. if you have the stuff you should make some and send them to him..
Yeah. Moulded carbon parts get their strength from the fibres. If you start cutting holes through the strands in high stress areas it's going to end badly. I've been thinking about how it could be done, but I keep coming back too prepreg carbon ribbon, a multi part compression mould, and an autoclave...... You think Vlad fancys shelling out for all that?......... FOR SCIENCE ? :D
@@Reman1975 Well, they could've at least made a decent mould. They could've waxed the freakin mould and apply release agent. It's not difficult!
But... they used a bent conrod for the mould. The mould itself was a disaster. The layers were not wetted after being applied. The fibre orientation was all over the place. The resin infusion was wrong from start to finish (the mid centre layers were bone dry). No steel insert on the small end... and so on.
Composites are not quantum physics. Even when working with limited equipment, common sense still applies.
Unless lm mistaken, you need to close the resin intake line and draw full vaccuum before introducing the resin. This will help with air pockets, and let you fill the part more effectively.
And using an autoclave helps keep pressure on the mould
I was literally thinking that same thing
DEAR GARAGE 54 PLEASE LISTEN TO THE POST ABOVE
The parts are strong at room temperature, but I don't think the resin will ever hold up under localized heat and pressure like this no matter how well the resin "flows".
@@scdevon You may be able to get higher heat resins, but I think an ICE engine will always tend to melt composites, at least the ones we know. Who knows what will be developed, but I think alloy metals are the way for now.
What a gas.. you guys.. I wish I was young again I would come and hang out with you nuts. I worked on cars since I was 14 and rebuilt my first car engine.. before that I used to rebuild lawn mower engines.. Keep it up boys and thanks for sharing the fun!
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one week i see a video saying carbon conrods are impossible and this week I see you guys going full send and trying it. love it.
It is not that it is impossible to make them, but the problem is the resin which does not like the heat and oil of the engine
@jankzi which makes it virtually impossible to run long term. Most people get to your point and say "why even try."
@@shaunconklin5694 if you are a content creator, then sure. If you want to actually make money from it or build an engine, you do research and don't waste money
@@shaunconklin5694 I would try to replace the resin with something that actually can handle heat and acids of engine oil, like Teflon plastic
Would they even need oil though? I would think carbon rods would use graphite, or basically be self lubricating.
My thoughts is having 2 con rods that are so much lighter is causing the motor timing to be off, or those rods are trying to out rotate the other 2 non carbon rods due to their weight. I'm confident if you did all 4 rods you'd get a better result
Either way it will probably require rebalancing because the Bob weights on the crank will be too heavy.
The crank counterweights are way too big now.
@@davidjernigan8161 As long as the crank alone would already be fairly balanced there is no need. It is a flat plane inline 4 with two outer and two inner journals move together so inherently balanced
For example, certain motorcycle racing classes back then (AMA Superbike and others) require use of *stock and unmodified* crankshafts or even heavier ones than stock from the OEM (Kawasaki did for the ZX-7(R)/ZXR750) but they use titanium rods and custom/aftermarket billet or forged pistons
They only did 2 of the 4 ? Lol why….. come on.
@@tahustvedt get the crank from the old video that they chopped off the weights
I really hope you're all making it through these rough times. Thank you so much for continuing to experiment and entertain.
I call it a win as the fact it ran and drove I was amazed,I expected the second the engine started both rods would let go and it would lock solid,well done for the hard work that must have taken
my guess too!^^
Uhm. Carbon fiber has a higher tensile strength than steel. Remember. This is a poorly made rod in someone’s garage. Not a 3d printed piece made by a manufacturer to extremely accurate tolerance. Ie. Much higher quality. Kinda like milling put a steel rod by hand vs milling one with a CNC. Same shit. But ultimately it wouldn’t break because it’s carbon. It would break because it just isn’t made wel enough. Respect for the effort though.
f1 teams dont use carbon fiber engine parts. that should tell you something
Try CNC machining the conrods out of a block of multiple layered CFRP of same thickness as crank journal's width. I think it would do it
Update: add optimization to tha mix, i.e run CF strands across where you need more overall strength
Yea like a compressed in mold chunk of carbon fiber. Use a press to compress it to like 30,000 psi
It would work better but still wouldn't hold up, carbon fiber isn't very heat or wear resistant.
My thoughts as well, CNC'd out of Carbon fibre blocks...
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 carbon fiber itself, would. The composite, the resin specifically, wont.
What if you make the rods in sandwich layers say (10 or even 15) in the shape of the rods, I think it will be stronger.
Also when laying, put the weave in a 45 degree angle each time you put in a layer and a resin in between.
It won’t make any difference as the stress comes from multiple directions due to the motion of the conrod and the resin breaks down with the heat and oil
Don't worry about getting it done right, just get it done! You guys are my hero's. From mechanical mad scientists everywhere thank you!
get shit done and do certain things right.. will save you a lot of time if you keep that in mind !
I really enjoy your videos. I am a master mechanic in Canada and used to work at a Lada dealership in Ottawa. I liked the Ladas, very crude but tough and super easy to repair. Keep up the good work.
I had the pleasure of owning a brand new 1990 Lada Estate Wagon. Lots of fun, qiute realiable, and cheap / easy to fix when it needed help. It did rust out though, after 10 years.
Yes, they did have a reputation of slop from the beginning, but that would stay the same till it rusted apart. Yes get up and go, got up and went, but there was nothing the Lada could not climb, much to the chagrin of the 4x4 clubs, where the only thing that stopped them was rocks so big even the Land Cruiser was bottoming out, the Lada 4x4 was simply able to idle over all obstacles, and climb almost vertical slopes.
Plus so cheap that you had no worries about damaging it, your Lada was cheaper than repairing the Land Cruiser, and you could just panel beat it back into rough shape, and carry on. Plus the engine bay you could climb in to to work on the engine, and the full size spare, high lift jack, good tool kit and starter handle were standard. OK not the fastest, or the lightest on fuel, but had a really good heater, and AC you opened the window. Still a fair number of them running around, rust in close formation.
So, you kept the van fleet running, eh? The cars too, I assume! 😉
i'm in the design phase of doing this for a lawnmower. need more material around the cap bolts especially if you have the space. a layer of resin after machining might of helped too.
you need t balance that
You will have to fill the carbon sheet in Helically from the bottom (big end) inwards to get the layers in the right place to prevent the being nothing but resin and misaligned fibre holding the big end bolt fittings together.
Carbon fibre struggles to deal with the oily, hot environment, and its porosity can result in the churning of the oil. Also, its lack of density (which is also what makes it so light compared to metal parts of the same size) means it needs to have less compact parts, despite its high strength to weight ratio. The latter problem is what happened here.
Its possible it could be used in high horsepower engines for short periods like one or two runs down a drag strip with an all motor no turbo or nitrous engine🤔
Yup, carbon fiber is never going to survive hot oil.
You are all forgeting that epoxy resin is very resistant to chemicals.Heat on the other hand...
Does that means you can actually use carbon fiber to make cam pulleys for engines that run on timing belts since it doesn't need to be soaked in oil ?
@@fleurdewin7958 Maybe. You cannot easily make a fibre-composite gear, but pulleys may be slightly easier. I think a big issue would be that the fibres would be experiencing lateral forces that would make it so that the resin would be bearing most of the load, which is obviously not good. However, I am not a materials scientist so I could not say for certain if this is the case.
Nice idea guys.
I'm liking the format of this one, more interactions with the team, I like to hear them talking about the process of their task.
Wow incredible that you even could start it! I never expected that!!! I think if you adjust the shape of the rod to the new material and make it from one piece it will last.
If you make a mold out of steel then xoat each layer then out it in a press until it dries might work better. Cool video
I always love you guys and seeing what y'all come up with
Much love from Tulia Texas out on the farm
The strength of carbon fibre composite is in tailoring the layup to resist the stresses; you need to wrap the fibre around the eye (a metal insert fitted at the start of the layup). Similarly with the big end, fit metal inserts for the bolts, and wrap the fibres around those tubes to hold everything together, as well as wrapping around the bearing cap and along the length of the rod. You really need to use something like FEA to figure out how much fibre to wrap in which direction. It's like forged rods are stronger than cast, because the forging adds strength in the direction of the parts but cast is the same strength in all directions, which is down to the size and orientation of the crystalline structure.
Super cool project thanks for doing all the work so we could see. Im sure you could get them to work in some combination but that would probably take a couple more tries and alot of long hours working with carbon fiber.
These guys are on the cutting edge. Fabricating carbon fiber parts... I've noticed their toolset expanding with each video, but this I didn't see coming.
Makes me wonder if the ability to use carbon fiber will become more widespread in the future. That would be pretty cool.
Here for the engineering not the politics
You can ignore politics, politics will not ignore you.
@@importsstillsuckthat makes no sense my boy
Liberals
@secularargument you have a weak understanding of politics
@@secularargumentpolitics effect your global day to day life
this is the craziest car channel there is. These experiments will lead to a technological breakthrough one of these days.
Amazing video guys, one of my favourites. Fantastic proof of concept. I bet if someone (or a company) with experience in carbon fiber parts, tried this, this could really become a viable option for replacement parts just like other car parts are made from carbon fiber. My other favourite videos from you guys are the starter motor as a supercharger, transparent radiator, crankshaft weld-up, and spring-loaded clutch! Keep up the great work.
Wow that was interesting, reminded me of my engine build in 1966 a 1957 Olds for my 1947 Chevy. Carbon Fiber ?? I had used Carbon Fiber 1st in 1978 for CT Scanner patient support. It was fairly translucent to Xray and Stiff as well. But that was a static part. In 1985 I used Carbon Fiber again for a robotic arm for a large industrial welder. Light weight, stiff and easy to control Vibration. But not heated or seriously stressed in small joints. The Connecting rod as we saw; Has a lot of stress at the fasteners, and heat from the engine and bidirectional forces changing direction rapidly. It's a really serious strength test for any material. Certainly you picked up on the need for design change required to add material at the stress point. Thicker wider wrist pin and rod bolt areas. But using a whole-strand has strength mostly in compression. It relies on the resin to handle other forces. In one project the Navy needed tougher Buoys for the sea environment. They tried Carbon Fiber but needed it to be lighter. The used Mirco-glass bubbles mixed in with the resin for lighter weight but still strong enough, it worked. I used those micro spheres to reduce X Ray absorbing on the thick edges of the patient support/ It worked! Now in the case of Connecting rods I would think if Automakers can press connecting rods from Powdered Metal. You could mix powdered metal into the resin for added strength to the Rod overall and then instead of a weak vacuum, use something like an autoclave to heat cure under very high pressure the rod assembly. Now with added material in the weaker points (wrist pin and rod bolts) plus powdered Metal in the Resin and High pressure curing You just might have a Connecting Rod that could handle a gas engine. for fun. how about a carbon fiber Housing for an electric motor and see if you can replace the gas engine with carbon Fiber Electric Motor. Save the Planet but still build fun cars with powerful engines and motors. Stay safe, Stay well, keep thinking and doing, what else do we live for. Dennis in Virginia
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Did not know the reason would cure properly in the 100% humidity of an autoclave! I guess since hardening is just a chemical reaction with resins, it's fine?
This was amazing but they gotta try making them different ways and maybe with some carbon tow to increase strength in specific places also maybe try casting one with chopped fiber
I was thinking this could actually work really well if they used the, carbon fiber and titanium "alloy" that Pagani used to rigidifiy there chassis, because the titanium would handle the compression and expansion better, and the carbon fiber would aid in that.
They actually use carbon fiber rods in drags racing with 2000hp+ cars, but they need to be changed after 100 passes they can and do work and work well if made correctly
I see several companies claiming they can make them but I can't find any examples of them actually being used. Do you know who is using them?
I'm interested because I've never seen carbon fiber parts succesfully used in compressive loading applications and if they managed to pull that off I want to know how they did it....
The only thing i can think of is maybe its a metal core rod wrapped in carbon fiber to use the tensile strength of the carbon fiber to increase strength of the metal core by preventing deformation from buckling... but a solid carbon fiber rod seems designed for failure so I'm genuinly curious about this.
Seriously doubt that.At least not with carvon & resin.
The strength of composites is based on the orientation of the fibers in relation to the stress loads. Carbon fiber layups are not like an isotropic material and cannot be treated as an isotropic material. Careful thought and design needs to be taken into consideration.
using unwoven fabric of carbon fiber can't compensate for this ? the main issue here seems to be the lack of material. Even aluminium conrod are way more beefy than the steel ones.
Also this is composite material so epoxy sgould be taken into consideration too.Can it hold at that temperature?I dont think so.
"Isotropic"? 🤔
@@jeffrykopis5468 isotropic means it doesn't have the same material properties (in this case applied to forces) in all directions. I.E. it has directional orientation based strength
@@neillcoetzer9133 Ah, like wood? Some woods are very strong across the grain, but split easily along the grain.
LOL, another cool car video>. Being from Detroit, cars are my DNA. I enjoy watching The Russian's car scene.
In other carbon fiber videos I've seen, each layer of carbon is soaked with resin as it's being laid down. Those videos aren't using vacuum, but it might be helpful if you have trouble with the resin penetration.
You need vacuum for strength, or else its not much stronger than a fiberglass hull of a rowing boat.
The vacuum should pull out air, compress the fabric and pull out excess resin, for the highest fabric to resin ratio. I don't have a vacuum setup, but I have used sand, over a separater film to compress some things I've made. (Not nearly as good as a vacuum, but better than just atmospheric pressure.)
I'm curious about the resin used. Mine is good to about 140 F, if I remember correctly.
... and while its an intermittent pulse of force lasting less than 10 deg of crank rotation, the rapid combustion force spread out over the top of the piston is roughly 21,000 psi pushing down on the rod. Also not sure what you used for resin, but most resins and epoxy will fail at those temperatures found inside an engine after warm-up, amplified by the lack of an oil cooler. Cool video guys! Always wondered if someone would try this.
Definitely wanna see how a carbon piston holds up
Resins cant deal with the temperatures.
Prepared worked for a pocket bike 2 stroke con rod in a single layup with an H prefabricated core holding the undersized bearings on center. Clamped the experiment within a 2 part CNC'd mold.
For rare occasions with more time available than brains.
Now back to our regularly scheduled entertainment for the climax.
Amazing work done, thank you for sharing this with us.
Keep em coming!
Bri
It's impressive that you were able to make these in your own shop and have them last any length of time. There are carbon fiber con-rods on the market. But, they are very rare, very expensive, and not intended for street use at this time. After seeing carbon fiber brake rotors and pads, I figured it was only a matter of time before something like engine components would make their way onto the scene.
You can work with Carbon fiber at room temperatures, but for it to become real strong, you need an autoclave.
A kind of high pressure cooker.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly when I was translating this one. I remembered how Horacio Pagani was trying to convince Lamborghini to acquire an industrial grade autoclave (and was unable to, if I remember correctly).
@@SwapBlogRU Lamborghini/Audi did do research into this. If you google carbon conrods speedhunters has an article about it back in 2018 november i think. Lambo is planning to use them in 2021 but that was pre covid. So i dno.
If anyone is gonna invent Cf rods its gonna be Koenigsegg
@@rageauto1291 "If anyone is gonna invent Cf rods its gonna be Koenigsegg" I have nothing to add to that, Christian von Koenigsegg is a genius (especially when it comes to carbon fiber) and one of the greatest inspirations in the automotive world.
Surprised this channel hasn't reached 1mil subs yet...they deserve it.
Rev up your engines! This is the Scotty kilmer channel!
Let's rev up your engines!
I'll rev up your engine 😏
@@aToast3r please daddy
Scotty would not approve lol
"Thiiiissss is a Lada, but not an ordinary Lada. This Lada has two carbon fiber con rods. First, we will see how the con rods were made, then I will drive it and then give it a Doug Score," Doug DeMuro.
This is a perfect example of how an excellent material for one application, may be terrible for another. I believe the problem is the polymer melts at too low of a temperature. Carbon fiber may be able to be used in high temperature engine components if it's combined with a high temperature material (metal perhaps? Don't even know if that's possible) regardless thanks for trying it guys! It's cool to see what actually happened.
With the pistons being 1/4th the weight wouldn’t the counter weights on the crankshaft need to be lightened? Then you also run into the issue of the other pistons being heavier than the carbon fiber ones. I think if they made all 4 carbon fiber pistons with lightened crankshaft it might run better.
Definitely
yea that's where the vibration came from. They should have known that. That's basic engine building knowledge. Can you imagine over 800 grams of imbalance rotating.
cant, carbon fiber burns
Pre-soaking the carbon pieces definitely helps with the resin flow. I also always used form release as well
these videos are the coolest car related videos I have seen on youtube, keep up the awesome videos!
Maybe compression molding and balancing of the shaft can work? This was a great experiment. Good job guys!
Kyocera a Japanese ceramics company made a complete ceramic gasoline engine in the 1970’s. It actually worked! The friction was almost nonexistent as the ceramic material absorbed oil and kept both the rods and pistons clean well lubricated at all times.
So glad to see content being out out. And it doesn't look the subscribers are falling off anymore. The ones that left are the type ya don't want enjoying your genius content anyway
When he was machining the carbon fiber without a mask it made me bit scared for him. You don't want to breath it in, that shit is extremely evil.
In Soviet Russia carbon fiber machine you
Great channel, I am glad to see a VAZ2121 in other words a Niva, I am proud to say I am a former Niva 1600cc owner , I hope we’ll see much more of those here , keep doing what you are doing
Great work, just a thaught, perhaps layer pre-soaked carbon fiber sheets into a stack and then put them in a press until they cure and then CNC cut and mill the part to size. maybe the pressed higher density would add more strength?
Forged carbon fiber!
There are some top fuel drag cars experimenting with carbon fiber con rods. They are able to handle upwards of 10,000 hp. The carbon fiber definitely has the ability to handle the stresses, but it has to be made with a lot of care. I think the best way to make conrods with available equipment is to use forged carbon with continuous strands laid in the direction of the conrod, and then using a press to squeeze the mold.
Compared to steel, Carbon is 3x-4x 'stronger', in terms of ultimate and yield strength under a compressive load.... But it is not nearly as 'tough'. Steel can take more of a beating, since it isn't as stiff. It can spring. Carbon is too brittle, and I think a thicker connecting rod would have the same results. Carbon is ideal in a situation where it is constantly loaded, (bearing strength is incredibly high) but going from nearly no load on the exhaust stroke/intake stroke to very high compressive load on compression/power stroke is making the worst property of carbon come out: it is brittle.
Also, the crank is balanced and counterweighted for a much heavier connecting rod. This extra vibration from the crank is not good for brittle carbon.
I think the rods would work if they did like a giant chunk of carbon fiber kinda like a billet piece compress it to like 30,000 psi to dry and machine it down. Then also figure out a way to add say an aluminum bearing housing inside the rod to hold the bearing still better. It would definitely require some science behind getting the piece of aluminum inside the mold in exact spot. And some kind of demples or short spikes to hold bearing housing still inside rod then actual bearings could be inserted. Or the bearing could actually be what I called bearing housing too.
@@spankthemonkey3437 You don't billet composites. You create molds to get them to shape.
@@orppranator5230 why can't you make several compress layers of the material the machine it out
@@spankthemonkey3437 why? You could just machine out a mold and make the part in one go. Composites aren’t the same as solid metal. Different processes to manufacture it, different properties, etc.
True. Machine a block of multiple layers within the resin layer rather than the fiber layer keep the sheets together to minimize sheering some grommets in the end caps would be the issue
To release parts from the mold easily apply a very thin lubricant to the mold like Vaseline VERY THIN before putting in the carbon fiber and after it's dried use compressed air around the corners of the part and it will literally fly off the mold :)
CF is strong but it's strength is directional. Lamborghini went around this by using shaved cf that is compressed in resin instead of layered ones. The compression also forces are aching along the grain and torsional ones with the crank moving to 90 and 270 help to twist the layers apart.
Garage 54 never dissapoints.
When do you guys ever work? 😀
cool experiment and possibly with a better stronger design professionally made they may work some day, but moral of the story for now is, metal connecting rods are stronger than carbon fiber rods.
The machinist some how screwed it up. they shouldn't pay him.
They do make carbon rods that rate 3000hp
Consider this. There's already a market for them, I'd say their machinist was of by a small amount. However the sheer weight of the other two metal rods is what caused the damage, it's too much rotational torque and despite the strength of CF it doesn't change the fact it still breaks.
@@jst7141 Did not know that, thanks for the info.
It will probably require 2 molds in combination to form the 2 halves properly with vacuum and heat to cure properly. Also you may need to make it thicker in material initially before any machining is done. The whole thing needs be made into as solid of a piece as humanly possible to ever stand a chance. Cross layering is essential for strength to carbon fiber.
YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME I LOVE ALL THE CRAZY IDEAS YOU HAVE AND THE EFFORT YOU GIVE TO ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL
I really enjoy your show and I'm sad to see what's happening in the world I hope you and your fellow brothers understand you being mostly lies God bless you God bless freedom let's see you build some crazy cars in the future love you brother
Leave that shit to your message boards.
Check out forged carbon fiber. It can be very easy to do if you have access to a 3d printer to make the two halves of the mold.
You can just make a silicone mold
Try a design using 2x2 twill each lay 45degree to each other, sandwiched with some random fibre patterns. Also use resin infusion method which will give you a tight lamination and a better fibre to matrix ratio (you can even use an autoclave to add additional atmospheres onto the part when under vacuum and heat if using pre preg) for what you are doing you need the best ratio possible due to to the matrix being brittle and the fibre flexible having a bad fibre to matrix will make the part too brittle as it was. The main issue is that composites hate being In compression and when compressed delaminate once they have started to delaminate all strength is lost and they rapidly fail.
What if you made a whole brick out of the carbon fiber and then cut and milled the rods out of that peice with additional material to compensate for the weak points?
This i'd like to see
Just love these guys, and yes I'm sure all the major F1 racing teams have investigated the use of carbon conrods at sometime.. Very interesting..
Id love to see you try this with the forged carbon fiber method... I have always heard that forged carbon fiber is much stronger
Real forged carbon might be an option but it isn't stronger due to the fibers being separated and non-oriented to the direction of stress; you can manually add long 'binder' strips to help. By real, hydraulic pressing is involved, normally starting at the 100 ton level. It is definitely easier to use for complex shapes like this connecting rod, aside from the actual laying part as it gets attached to your gloves and such during manual layup. You just stuff it into a mold, having measured for resin to carbon ratio ahead of time.
the yeild/failure point of forged carbon is less than aluminium.. it's much weaker than normal twill
First of all. Love the show. I am a big fan but i want to give some positive criticism There are numerous issues with the making the rod.
1. It needs kevlar reinforcing. Crabon is very strong but very brittle. Kevlar will add to that impact attenuation. Aramid fibers will be the best use for this.
2. Layering infusion on pure vacume alone wont work. You need to 3D print the mould and forge the carbon under high pressue. Autoclave might be needed. I doubt one was availible.
3. The main issue is its a composite the carbon can take the force but the issue is the resin. The resin cant handle the insides of an engine. The heat and oil breaks down the resin. Normal resins come apart at 60 to 80 deg Celcius. No manufacturer has figured out how to bypass this. I think the highest temp resin availible is 120 deg C. Stil lower than what is needed
4. The piston is heavier and that force its transfered into the carbon. You need a lighter piston also.
5. Throwing it on the ground creates small fractures. Carbon is brittle suden impacts are bad.
6. They need to be made thicker and reinforcing needs to be added to the design. A H beam design should be used for example.
7. The thermal expansion is different for CF. This affects your bearing clearances. Carbon has low thermal expansion. The bearong draw does not account for that. So the bearings ecpand from heat fracturing the conrod from the inside of the crank journal outwards.
8. Machining and cutting CF creates small fractures. If you combine those two youbget a recipe for failure (see dehaveland commet failure). Carbin fibre has to be cast with all points mounts and holes already included in the desin..
9. The shapes are all wonkey. They need to be perfectly striaght to transfer the forces properly onto the crank journal.
10. You cant machine it at all. You need to cast it onto a metal type bushing of some type and ream those bushings to the correct specs.
11. Not all carbon fiber was manufactured equal.
12. You guys whacked it with a hammer to get it out the mould. Composits can easily crack like that
I know its not the Garage54 way but those you made are 1/100th of what a proper deisgn can do. But even if you manage that you stil cant get past the termal limit of the resin.
If you want more details PM me. Id love to help you guys out with some research im doing also. Pretty sure one can make it work with proper design and manufacture methods
14:56 vlad is asking himself on the left LOL
And for your next project - a concrete cylinder block! ;)
Lada ist kaput!
Nah, this is Garage 54. You can give them a pile of rusted rebar and they find a way to make it drive around the block a couple of times. And this only half-destroyed Lada? I bet we will see it again in some future experiment.
@@ReneSchickbauer Yeah, you're right. It's good for a few more miles.
I won't be surprised if someday I come in here and find these guys have built an entire engine from scratch! machined out the block and everything.
love your content and we care for you and your staff. My heart is with you and the kind other Russians that are on the wrong side of this conflict, Ukraine is not your enemy.
Where was your country in the war in iraq and creation of ISIS? Peace needs to be worldwide, war never stopped. Russia is on the wrong side of history right now but really the powers at be need to STOP TAKING TURNS
Also the european dependence on russian energy increasing in the past 8 years is very telliing... politicians don't care about the war at all, they were fine with putin attacking ukraine up until the fullscale invasion... like somehow only small incursions on human life are okay or something.
@@killsalot78 exactly
We labeled Osama bin Laden as an "anti soviet freedom fighter" in 1994. USA has no room to talk about peace.
@John Connor The vile hostility is childish and unnecessary.
Why do you feel the need to say this, this channel is not related to politics. I don't go around crying about Guantamo on gun videos.
great job guys! I appreciate the creative effort and originality!
Noe way the resin can withstand the heat
It’s not that hot, most can easily handle 300 degrees
@@Industry-insider 300 degrees will seriously weaken the epoxy in structural applications. It might not melt or burn, but it can't survive 300 degrees while heavily loaded. There are some high temperature epoxies available but they are special. Probably very expensive and toxic.
When he said only two, I was like aww damn, why? Then they show the process to make just one…I’m like yeah, yeah two is enough. Amazing work you guys
Hey guys, I know I'm late to the party but I just wanted to say, whenever you're working with carbon fiber it's really important to wear good masks. Carbon fiber dust is really bad for you. Stay safe ya'll :)
Their Russian they don't care about little things like harmful dust it can't hurt them their Russian s
You have to get your crank balanced, as the piston+rod had a big weight reduction, the balancing weight at the crank need to be shaved off so much weight to get your crank assemly balance out properly. The revs will go up due to lighter inertia. But with an unbalanced assembly your crank bearings will worn indefinitely and exess vibration will kill rod bearings in very short time
First, yay!
Second yay
3rd ye
@@lettuceman3848 fourth y
Fifth yay
but, when the CF breaks down due to oils/heat/isotropic loading etc. It with coat the engine in magic fairy dust so..... Love you guys!!!
21:24 Connecting rod: " see you on the other side, piston "
Tip for working with cured CF. Use abrasive tools rather than cutting tools. It works easier, faster, and is far less damaging
"I don't think we're going anywhere... Or are we? No need to be afraid!." Love you Vlad!
I really respect what you do in your shop. You may want to look up Project Farm for some ideas he hasn't worked on yet. I think this will not work very long, but hope that it does. Carbon fibre is the building material of the future, It may yet replace heavier parts in an internal combustion engine making it lighter and more fuel efficient. I believe the part of the piston rod that makes contact with the crankshaft and piston will remain metal due to the stress and sudden change in motion it has to do, but the rest of the part could be carbon fibre. I will watch with interest.
Carbon fibers work better under tension, rather than compression. In this case, you rely mostly on the resin's hardness. Great work with the video!
You should try forged carbon. It’s all payed up at once so there’s no issue with dis I ding and because it’s squeezed together it will be solid and more dense than separate plies. Y’all did a great job I’d love to see one more attempt!
I love the simplicity of that engine
Love your videos, love your willingness to experiment ,keep up the great work bob, England 🇬🇧
Full carbon fiber lada when?!
Jokes aside, i dont even know how ou guys come up with such crazy ideas, i love them.
I like when Ivan is on camera and narrating ... He's a badass
Take 2 pins of the right diameter, and wind carbon fibre string between then to make a core. Then use more string to wrap around the long length of string, so as to make the long lengths pull together. You will need to leave the long wrap loose, so the wrap can pull them tight together, probably also first making a circle around the bores, so there is an even layer, then wrap the string lengthwise and then pull together in a wrap. Then you can use the mat to make the outside, using that vacuum form to make a wood replica, that has larger dimensions for the split area, and also wind more string around that area as well. No reason the composite should not be as strong as steel, just needs to be aligned correctly, not with a woven mat, as that is merely good as a panel, you need strength only in one direction, for both compression and tension. Thus the long string for tension, and the tight wrap for the compression side.
After all the long length of the rod did not fail, but the attach points did, so you need to beef those up, and using carbon fibre string is the best for that, to allow you to control the direction of force.
If you look at aluminum rods, they have about twice as much material as steel ones. The process for carbon rotors is pretty involved.
Quite the fun project this was although I’d make them thicker, do all 4 for balance purposes and add that hard thick resin shine coating for rigidity and holding power, and make further enhancements for the connecting rod bearings. Well done nonetheless and amazing work!
Titanium rods & pistons next? With a lightened Flywheel, Damper, and maybe balanced crankshaft too?
You must use high heat glue with the carbon, The carbon must be cut to pieces and packed in the mold after its mixed with the glue.
I learned to do casting of crankshaft and heads at my father's shop that's how we made the bulk of our money obsolete diesel engines we got contracted to recast new blocks and heads because they didn't want to replace the motors themselves I had a hand carved out of Wax a whole lot of the parts and that was before we took the the wax mold and encased it into epoxy resin I had to coat the whole part even though it was made out of wax in linseed oil to help upon separation I think if you take the carbon fiber strips and cut them down 2 cm square that will also allow a lot more density in the fiber making a two piece mold the way I did out of the original part save time the typecasting we did was known vacuum casting it allows for a more even density throughout the metal
Interestingly I was watching a video about carbon conrods recently, the takeaway is that while the carbon is strong the resin that holds it together isnt up for the stress and heat cycles in the engine. Maybe for race applications but aluminum is already better
Fundamental problem here is the loading on the connecting rod and the material properties of carbon fiber. At TDC the force transmitted through the rod is compressive. Carbon fiber offers virtually no strength or stiffness in the compressive axial direction. In compression, the strength and stiffness is nearly 100% derived from the matrix (epoxy generally). While the carbon would offer some benefit in the bending stresses of the beam while the crankshaft is at 90 and 270 degrees the compressive force needs to be addressed.
There are rolls of resin, a sheet of resin, that you gotta keep it in a freezer at negative temperatures. Maybe -20 °C but i don't remember really well. What you have to do is you get the roll of sheet resin, that has a film of paper that you peel off when you have a 3meters long piece and you stick the sheet of resin on the sheet of carbon fiber. When you put a pice of carbon fiber with the resin sticked to it on the mold, you take a hot air blowing gun on 100-135 °C or more. Do not reach 200 because the piece of carbon will slide all over the place on the resin and make a mess.
в листах есть рулоны смолы. у вас должен быть большой морозильник, чтобы хранить ролл при температуре -20 или ниже, я не помню ... когда вы берете рулет, однако, вы должны ждать, пока он нагреется до комнатной температуры или если нет, напоминают, что если его развернуть, смола рассыплется на куски. возьмите лист углеродного волокна той же длины, что и лист из смолы, возьмите смолу и положите ее на лист из углеродного волокна. но сначала снимаем слой бумаги, который отделяет смолу. когда пойдете прокладывать стык, возьмите пистолет, который стреляет горячим воздухом на 100°С и выше, но не выше 200. хорошо давить по углам и по всем кривым и углам. на готовую форму уходит лист пластика и один лист чистого хлопка. вы кладете его в пакет и вставляете в него клапан, который вакуумирует пакет с помощью компрессора. мешок должен находиться под вакуумом, когда он находится в духовке.
Rods don't only need to be strong, they also need to flexible. A rod changes direction several thousands times a minute. If your rod can't stretch, it will break.
i think i would make a steel skeleton and then add the carbon fiber it would be alot lighter and maybe might last and id just leave the rods square wouldnt worry about the rod being exactly like the regular rod shape!! good video pretty freaking cool guys!!
Just realized these dubs are like audio book what can be listened while thinking something more important, like turbos.
What beautiful machine work you did on those con rods
now this is some high tech shit, wouldnt be surprised if we see this soon
carbon infused metal has been used before, most notably carbo-tanium that Pagani uses. I think RND costs is what's holding it back from major manufacturers. As some one else stated in the comments, 3d printing forged carbon fiber may be the way to go
Ford uses carbon fibre wheels on the gt350r mustang. Something that is usually forged aluminum or magnesium in similar applications. This is a giant maybe.