The Germans used ball baring crankshafts in the V-12 Panzer and Tiger engines in WW2. The crankshafts where bolt together design. It took a incredible amount of design, machining and assembly to pull it off but they did. The tank engines ran on gasoline, 7 to 1 compression ratio and 16 litter displacement pumping out around 700hp.
I went and looked this up and that crankshaft from the Maybach HL230 is definitely a bolt up design! its nuts that the whole crank is circular in the entirety of its design
I hadn't heard of VW crankshafts being built up, but a number of early Porsche cranks were. Especially in the higher-performance cars or race cars. The typical way those were done was that each piece was bolted through the rod journal onto the next piece. You'd slide the one-piece connecting rod (no need to leave space for rod bolts!!) onto the journal, then bolt it onto the rest of the crank.
I was thinking the same thing with bolting it together .. . Doing like a gear design for the insert and cutout on the other to keep shape ... might have better luck with it holding together
As a mechanic I love your crazy Ideas ! Honda actually build 9000 RPM engines like this for their first cars . I don't know all the details, but you're experts!
I would have gone with either keyways/ an interference fit to lock the parts together, or using liquid nitrogen/helium to shrink and press the parts together with a really tight tolerance
Fellow engineer here… It would be interesting one to solve thats for sure. Keyways is a solid idea, maybe even brazed in place just to prevent any shock from the valve strikes. Interference fitting is a cool solution too provided your materials can meet the condition range. Interference fittings of the same material can have questionable reliability when heated… This often works better with dissimilar metals, where the contracted piece has a lower expansion ratio than the receiving piece… In this way the fit remains super tight throughout the expected temperature range. Note : Two different types of steel by example can have vastly different ratios.
All of this is wonderful, the interactions between gearheads and shade tree engineers. My opinion just to throw one out there is that a multiple crank is possible using a splined press fit. I think where they ran into trouble was in the balancing, vibration caused their welds to crack. Many large industrial machines use splined press fit parts without issue. As far as the bearings go, 2 piece caged needle bearings would work if the conrod and end caps were lipped to keep the needles in and both were harden.
Should have used split cage needle roller bearings. You could machine the crankshaft and conrod to suit and with a groove cut in the outer diameter you can still deliver oil to the wrist pin and cylinder walls.
@@glt-m2l you can fit a split cage to standard crank, roller bearings means you have a multi piece crank that has to be pressed together with the bearings
Many dirtbikes, ATVs, lawnmowers, etc use needle bearings for the crankshaft to rod rotary connection. Upon doing some research I found that the typical surface bearings used in vehicles need a consistently high oil pressure to prevent damage. This also means that engines that routinely get tipped over, shook, etc rarely use these bearings as the engine can be oriented such that the oil pump receives no oil (ie. dirtbike wrecked on it's side). The needle bearings can survive this as they operate off the oil mist in the crankcase and do not need a consistent oil pressure supply to prevent wear (the film stays on the bearing much longer). Vehicle engines do not ever undergo random losses of oil pressure so the need to have bearings that can survive without oil does not exist, thus they can use the far cheaper surface bearings.
Yes all multi-piece crankshafts use needle bearings on the big end of the rod. Surface bearings need a small layer of oil in between the two surfaces or they will quickly get damaged. That small film of oil is critical
In those conditions the design simply uses a dry sump design where the oil is scavenged away from the sump and pumped into a separate oil tank. A second pump then pumps the presurised oil from the tank to the crank shell bearings
Motorcycles use a press-fit pin and then you can do the final alignment in a jig with a dial indicator. You might also use a pinned crank, where a hole is drilled and a pin or bolt is inserted to hold alignment rather than welding. On the rods, using a needle bearing would give you thinner bearings to work with, but you need a hard enough surface for them to roll on.
I rebuild engine and multi piece crank shafts and a hammer is exactly whats required. Usually a copper or bronze mallet. IT IS WHAT YOU DO to true up cranks.
You fellows work well together in solving problems. Sticking with a problem until you solve it no matter how many failures is inspirational. Good work!
Ford falcon, simplicity at its very best! I had a 66, 68 and 70 Falcons that were transplanted with 428CJ engines, back when gas was $0.29 a gallon. Before Reagan destroyed the American an dream. I have had to drive a mini car since.
@@Highstranger951 yes, - center punch the area and start small with a good set of carbide drill bits. A drill press is highly recommended for depth. I also center the bearing cage so that I don't knick a B.B. I work for a transmission shop, and I also work with dirt bike engines, drilling a hole in the bearing can be very helpful in old 2 stroke motorcycle engine "if done properly and patiently".
Yes Russians not to be under estimated. Also incredible electrical engineers also. Which took off doing similar tactics with electronics and motors "things that don't make sense/break laws of physics" and kept most of their discoveries secret.
@@codyhatch4607 well, Harleys are designed for it. In this case they might have inadvertantly covered/blocked some oil passages. (PS I didn't know Harleys had roller bottom ends... That's cool)
My 1981 H-D has needle bearings in the lower end and you can tell when they go bad also. I had 78,000 miles on it and it was shaking like Charo(Latin dancer) and knocking like a diesel. Thanks for sharing the video post, best of luck 🍀to you, your crew and families ❤️
If they simply just fill the rod end and bearing caps with needle bearings to match the size of the original ones, they could have a “roller bearing” engine that revs like a motorbike, using an original crank and they would receive proper lubrication. Ball bearings will eventually seize without continuous lubrication.
Facts man I thought that while they making the crank. Not the needle bearing thing but there are no oil passages in that crank at all with no lubrication on the bearings it’s of course going to fail
Will not work the crank and rod are not hard enough for metal on metal bearings race are way harder than the conrod And you still need a cage for the roller bearings so you need a multi piece crank that is press fit and bike conrod are one piece normally And motor like the gsxr1000 use normal half moon bearings just like the stock Lada engine use
@@suzysuzuki8865 Hear me out, now. What if you took needle bearings... and fused all the needles together to make one giant round piece and made the outer race part of the conrods and made the inner race part of the block and caps and drilled holes to pump oil into it, wouldn't that be cool?
These guys are really good fabricators. I absolutely love their experiments and the name of their channel. It's hard to give these guys good ideas. They've got the resources and know how to do almost anything. But it has to be cost sensible and produce a decent amount of content.
Drill almost right through each lobe of the crank shaft and insert roll pins all the way through, that should hold each section together. You could even tap the hole and cap it off with a set screw, use loctite thread locker for extra security and that way the pin has no chance of working it's way out.
May be not make the holes perfect circles so the rotational stress is eliminated form the welds? I'm not a machinist so not sure how difficult would it be. Also taper the to be weld surfaces so there is a cove to fill with weld? Again, not a welder but intuition says that would be a way stronger weld. May be they did it already
A very cool idea and it did work although temporarily. I have seen a roller bearing cam shaft something from the 60's I believe. It had a 2 peace bearing with some type of rollers inside and the halves were held together with a tiny spring like in a seal and allowed oil flow into the center of the bearing to lube the rollers. That's the only one I have ever seen and even a couple hot rod buddies never heard of such a thing. It was purchased in a whole bunch of old circle track car parts from the 50' to the 70's, sadly I don't know what it fits but I assume a Chevrolet. If anyone has ever heard of such a thing I would love to hear about it. But what I was getting at is, that would be the best way I can think of to make a ball bearing crank shaft and would it would definitely free up the crank shaft. Love your videos, you guys rock.
This was fantastic idea. And I think some improvements can be made. Yes balancing is important, but I would like to see much tighter tolerances machined into the holes that the journals need to be pressed into. In this way should make the crank shaft easier to keep true in alignment. Also add into the engine a separate oiling system that is fed by the oil pump. This system would would have small tubes [copper] shaped into squirter that is aimed at the under side of the piston. Splashing will happen as the piston travels up and down spraying oil onto cylinder walls. Making a small chamfered hole on the external part of the connecting rods will allow some of that lol to seep into the wrist pin end of the connecting rod. I would most definitely love to see a revisit on this engine hack. Keep up the great experiments you do to these cars and engines, love your show!
One day will you put a supercharger where the water pump goes and see if you can air cool a liquid cooled engine finally since we've asked a thousand times now???
When you compress stuff, it gets hot. How much airflow would you need through those small spaces just to remove additional heat? I don't think that's possible for much longer than running it dry.
NTN has developed split roller bearings for automotive applications, including camshafts. These look like a great idea for reducing friction. Ball bearings are not good for lateral thrust applications whereas rollers are. Great job getting this done! The belated oil circuit confusion was entertaining. Might have to introduce some oil jets to splash the bottom of the pistons? Perhaps cross-pins through the intersections of the crank might have helped? Maybach and others successfully built tunnel crankshaft engines but these require bearing internal diameters larger than the crank throw. Doubt there is enough room to modify the crankcase for that in a Lada. Ever since owning a couple of Niva 4x4, I have always admired the simplicity and ruggedness of Russian vehicles. The Niva would often go places that vehicles costing 10x more could not. But they would have benefited from a 2 litre engine and maybe 300mm increase in overall length for road use. You could buy them new with a 2L Toyota diesel in New Zealand when Lada cars were taken in exchange for dairy products in the 1980s. A local company converted new Niva’s and they really were much improved by this engine. Love this channel - subscribed! 👍🏻
There is a reason for plain bearings instead of ball/needle bearings. The contacting surface of a ball/needle bearing is a tiny spot. Meanwhile the contacting surface of a plain bearing is almost a 180° of the circle.
I'm so impressed that you do such advanced research with simple manual lathes and mills. It shows true genius that you solve complex problems with basic shop equipment.
I think if the pins for the bearings were splined to mate with the crank throws and press fit then welded if may be more durable but I think you guys did a fantastic job for your first attempt.
2 strokes have been using roller bearings in the crank, rods and piston wrist pin forever. Of course it’s because they are oiled through the fuel so no oil pump or oil bath for the bearings.
2 strokes have twice the number of combustion cycles - but they're half as big. Bugatti, Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes, Lotus, BRM, Honda (and more) have all tried roller bearing bottom ends and NEVER get it to work right in a 4 stroke.
@@GroovesAndLands Many motorbikes have roller bearing cranks. Not just 2 strokes, but for instance the original suzuki GS range of four strokes. Made them bullet proof
I love you guys! There is no other channel that could be compared to yours. Not just mind blowing, and well implemented projects, but expert skills and scientific explanation behind it. Greetings from Hungary! ☺️
What you should do next is to make a crossplane i4 engine by cutting and welding the crank as well as the camshaft for the new timing of the engine. I would love to hear a car with such a unique engine.
The ingenuity and the fact that you were actually successful only limited was a great step forward. Perhaps one day someone will be able to perfect it and it will be revolutionary for future engines. Great Job!
my 50-cc scooter has needle bearings on the crank and wrist pin. the average rpm is around 6 to 10 grand. granted it is a single cylinder 4 stroke, but maybe using bearings on a small 4 banger might be viable.
I wonder how much Performanceyou can get from a Lada engine just from adding EFI, ECUs, the ball bearings shown here, or even a turbo., but without swapping rods, pistons, or cranks.
Every 2 stroke motorcycle has ball bearings for the crank and roller and needle bearings for the Rod, nothing strange, they work, rev very High and last long, Classic vespa engines last 100k km sometimes before rebuilt, and very powerful 125-250 bikes can last 50k with no problem, modern scooters are less reliable because cheap construction and the strain of the offcenter belt and CVT eats the crank bearings but they also can last
I wanted to do this (in theory) since I was a young man (40+ Years ago). I never tried it. I didn't have the resources. You guys are now fulfilling (one of) my dream(s). Thank You from the bottom of my Heart!! ❤👍🙂
Lawn boy mowers were very well known to have a needle bearings in the crankshaft end it was very rare for them to ever have problems and would last as many times as you could get away with rebuilding the engine
@@kleetus92 Ive got alot of 4 strokes that have ball bearing cranks with needle bearing rods. Idk why people keep talking like its a 2 stroke only thing.
@@kleetus92 Look into gy6 150s Or CN250s or Linhai/vog 250/260/300s Just to name a few. Many many 4 stroke atv/bike motors are the same also. One piece cranks/rods (pressed together) with ball bearing mains and needle bearing big ends. No bearings on the small ends tho.
I have thought of this for some years now. The solution i came up with for connecting the journals to the crank arms was a light press fit with machined splines, keyway, or some sort of interference rotational wise fit. A flat spot in the circle of both meshing parts. Then secure it together with a decent sized bolt and a beefy washer. I’ve dreamed of designing and building a stackable single cylinder heavy duty industrial engine like this. Design each cylinder so it could be mated to other cylinders either on end or in a v configuration.
I tore down a marine engine when i was young that used needle bearing assemblies mounted on a forged crankshaft. The design was really neat, the outer race was unevenly split and had two grooves on the outside that spring steel retainer rings would fit on to hold the outer race together while assembling. If you looked at the outer race from the side the split would look like this [ / ]. I thought about it for a while and concluded that they split them at an angle like that so that the needle bearings would not hang up because it would only encounter a small portion of the seam as it was rolling by. There were oil port holes in them too, and the journals had a small groove for oil to travel freely to the oil port on the race.. After seeing that, i always thought that oil bathed needle bearings, or a more chunky roller bearing would be the best alternative (hopefully more durable) solution to soft metal solid bearings or bushings.
13:31 God damn, this man knows what he is doing. In this stupid idea, the amount of knowledge, theory and physics used shows how great mechanic he is right now, we will see where he will be in 10 years!
Many years ago, someone special ordered a Volkswagen crankshaft assembled with either ball bearings or with needle bearings, it was used in the pancake style air cooled 4 cylinder, it came from Germany.
That was a GREAT Effort . Yes , Torrington Roller conversion would be the way with a Cast Crank . Alternatively , for a Built-Up , Multi piece Crank , it needs Machining to 120 Ton Press assembly tolerances . Needs doing in an Alignment Jig . And the Other Version involves Fine Sliding fit , Keyed for Alignment and using High Tensile Bolt and Nut assembly through the Journals . Ultra High precision Machining .
Very good effort. I have never seen anything kill this before. Genius idea!!!!!!!! 10 out 10 the idea and effort and the fact it started and ran for few minutes. Keep it up and maybe sports engine makers might learn something from you. Try and sell this idea to some big company with the condition that you will work on the engine yourself in there facility and make the first sport engine crank shaft running on ball bearings
Great content! Needle bearing would have been a better option but it would loose a lot of oil pressure but overall it would be easier to assemble, there would be no needed to cut the crankshaft, but the bearings would have to be made from scratch for them to be split in 2 to replace the original bearings, this is a very good idea!
Is Sergei the son of Vlad? If so, it’s really neat to see them be able to work together. Even if not, they’ve got a great rapport and are a fun team to watch!
these guys are kinda impressive. Others will think themselves to be badasses because they buy fancy parts and build a motor out of it, these lads straight up built their own god damn crankshaft because they wanted to.. and it works. Absolutely impressive.
This has been done before by automotive companies. Even with today modern engines there's about 6% of fuel saving with roller bearings. The problem is the assembly is rather expensive and noise and vibration harshness is a big issue with them What Ford will do on their 1.0Ecoboost mild hybrid is to install a roller bearing on the first crankshaft bearing pulley side. So to cover for the bigger loads due to the high torque there because of the belt starter generator. Gives about 2% fuel saving too overall. But they have to go long ways to reduce NVH
I think that is a good idea for Ford, but as these engines become more expensive, who can afford them. They are not high-priced Mercedes models! Maybe they could make this special crankshaft and the motor block so tough, that it lasts for 2 or 3 cars. Then sell the first car and lease its motor, so they can get the used motor block back later on and put it into the next model ! Silly idea maybe? I am having a Ford Tourneo 1.0 Eco boost, 95000km, frequent oil-changes ( twice per year) the engine is a little bit louder, than when new.
@@konradcomrade4845 no in 1972 VW thought about something different. The long term car. So after 10 or 15 years the dealer could swap you in a more modern drivetrain or update other stuff instead of buying a whole new car to protect the environment with less material and energy usage. Guess where that idea landed in the end
A lot of motorcycle crankshafts are press-fit with some being doweled and/or having keyways and use roller bearings on the ends and/or the middle as well. Cool approach to it though!
Hey well done on listening to your subscribers with getting merch 👌 We all love your whacky crazy car channel. I never miss an episode. Thanks for your contribution of awesome content for us all to watch for free 👍
I would call that a success! It ran, drove. Ok it didn’t last too long because of the weld issue but with some refinement it may last much longer. Great work! I think a version 2.0 with needle roller bearings. Maybe the different sections of crank can be machined to thread together before welding for extra contact.
Wonder if you could spline the ends of the crankshaft sections and eliminate the need for welding. Might even be able to replace only the broke parts when it blew that way.🤔
There is actually no need to go to the extra complication of macining splined components just a simple pressed together interference fit is all that is required to do the job reliably. That is how most of the commercially made built up crankshafts are assembled.
In the 1960's there was a car called the Inch Pincher that had roller bearings on the crankshaft ( main bearings and connector rod bearings ) it showed up at the drag strip every Sunday . It was a V.W. bug , went like stink ( for a V.W. ) PS you can buy split roller bearing so you don't have to take the crankshaft apart , we used them on the trim saws in the sawmill . Shaft was over forty feet long so stripping it down to replace a center bearing would have take all day . Bearing could be replaced during a coffee break or between shifts with the split roller bearing. They seemed to last a long , long time ( 1800 rpm , 16 hours a day ) The mill was a forty foot mill cutting hemlock
many years ago a company called SPG made roller bearing crankshafts for VW and Porche... you need a modified oiling system as the roller bearing require a lot more volume
@@Tore_Lund did not know that.... I just know that they (roller bearing crankshafts) are very expensive and engine blocks/cases have to be specially modified to use one if its not made that way from the factory
@@williamaittala7700 They also had to be overhauled every 50.000km, if I remember correctly, but that as 1950' tech basically, materials today might be better, The Saab was two stroke, so it was obvious to use roller bearings like in a moped engine when there was oil in the gasoline already.
This has been done decades ago. An entry into the INDY races, it proved to be less reliable than plain bearings. Rollers just don't tolerate oil contamination or debris. But their solution was a split type bearing, like a clam shell bearing so the crank is forged and not welded. It's very entertaining and interesting to see it done in this video.
The webs and pins should have been a press/interference fit, no need to weld. common practice on old multi-cylinder motorcycle engines revving to 10,000 rpm. Suzuki gs1000 to name one.
See also Kawasaki cranks, Allen Millyard must have a hundred videos showing his custom ones. Brilliant idea, and like you say, they can rev some. But are they ever a chore to fix!
@@creepingjesus5106 Pin-together cranks work fine on 2 strokes, where the combustion pulses are half as strong but come twice as often. 4 strokes? Not so much.
@@GroovesAndLands Wrong! There are loads of reliable high output 4 stroke motorcycle engines that run ball and roller bearing cranks without reliability issues.
i thought the engine sounded like it needs a higher rpm idle because the crank's rotating mass is a lot less, would need a heavier than stock flywheel to compensate
I haven't heard of any production cars with ball bearing crankshafts, but roller bearing cranks were definitely a think in the 50s and 60s. They are better than oil-fed plain bearings for high revs but loading them up at low revs will trash the bearings quickly. Roller bearings are much stronger and more durable for radial loads (which a crankshaft journal sees) but have very little side load capacity (which would be front-back loading in a crankshaft, and is unnecessary because thrust bearings take those loads). Another big difference is that roller bearing cranks always use open bearings, not grease-lubricated sealed bearings. The rollers and races need to be splashed with fresh oil. Grease and rubber seals will harden and break down over time. Oil will seep in and wash the grease away, but won't flow enough to properly lube the bearings. Also, debris in the oil will get trapped.
Lots of motorcycles have roller bearing crankshafts on the conrod big ends, sometimes even on the little ends at the piston pin. My old 1976 yamaha 650 had full roller bearings on both big and little ends, such a well designed engine. 👍
Also balancing would remove the excess stress. I’m sure that had a lot to do with the failure. Hope you decide to keep working on it. I want to see it rev up and run!
This is cool, I love to watch hou guys do all this. My concern with bearings on the crankshaft would be pitting from the constant pounding. Especially if pre-ignition occurs.
I think splined pins might have lasted a little longer then weld them where you can reach or use set screws so the bearings could be servicable. Great content, guys! I really enjoy your videos! You guys do the things I just get to think about.
I've always wondered why the big manufacturers never pursued this as it has to reduce frictional losses by a big amount thereby upping efficiency by a more than just a small, perceptible amount. Glad someone finally did it. Maybe each race should have had a few very small holes drilled in them to allow oil to flow similar how its fed to regular bearings
What a blast , funny as guys 👍obviously there are better solutions but to have a go with limited machinery! I think you did rather well . In an ideal world maybe spline and shrink fit the crank and have a one piece rod with needle roller bearings , this would then need hardened journals etc . There will always be an issue with crank flex and balance really . The other ideal solution would be to have roller bearings with split hardened shells with the joint at an angle so the rollers don’t hit a joint square . Nothings easy unless you have access to quality machinery. Love stuff like this , can’t wait till you decide to build an aircraft 😇🇬🇧👍👍👍
ball bearings are good and last forever on even rotational forces without major vibrations or temperature variations*. Crankshaft on the other hand have pretty hard rotational forces that depending the work* of the engine, shift dramatically. That's why they use oil pressure. Zero metal to metal contacts, minimum friction, runs cooler and the oil works as a dumping material to absorb any vibrations coming from the rods
I built a roller crank 400 Chevy back in 1980. Biggest problem was floating valves and rods that didn't want to "cooperate". But it was fun while it run.
Who takes decades of engineering, world wide practices, and tons of highly educated engineers and mathematicians ideas, and just scoffs at all this? Vlad . And that is why we love him.
I've done this before, you need to make each part of the crankshaft mate using a square or keyed end that inserts into an equivalent recess on the other, this way, they "lock" into place, then you put a bolt through to tighten them. :)
You should drill very small holes in the bearings to get lubrication and cool down on the bearings. Plus you will get the oil splash under the piston. Try a normal crankshaft to get distribution of oil. I think you can try a bolt to bolt the crankshaft together at the bearings. Will be a little heavier but should add torque. You wel dial pins to keep it from turning and lock it in place.
Fun fact my friend Steve who is between the age of 70 to 90 has made a ball bearing engine that want to go kart race back in like the 50s or 60s and the guy has multiple patents on electric heart pumps and things of that touch but to see you guys do this is awesome much appreciated put my friend Steve in mind
8:12 ... Bardahl!! My younger brother (rip) always drove a Ford diesel pickup truck, as he could get Diesel Fuel free at work, but not gas :) .. And He always used Bardah Oil, for Diesel engines, as that's the brand EVERY truck in the company fleet used for Oil and Additives!!!
How about roller bearings for all bearings except for the center main bearing. Use the center main bearing with a well oiled ball bearing to allow for thermal expansion while keeping the crankshaft centered. Like they do in large jet engines. Rods would use roller bearings too. High oil flow would be required for cooling but high pressure would not be required. Tolerances would need to be very tight. Higher quality metallurgy with minimal thermal expansion and strength. While retaining flexibility in the steel alloy would probably be required. In the block, crank and rods. It might up the cost just a bit? There would be weight penalty in using steel vs aluminum. That could be partially compensated by use of lighter secondary parts. Aluminum heads, fuel and oul pumps. All is ask is don't be BMW and use plastic anywhere in the engine. Maybe the intake manifold? But that's it.
Some good ideas , and agree . One of the problems will always be ‘pick up ‘ on the bearing faces and even if they could get away with a standard crank , journals would have to be hardened and ground unless split inner and outer races were used . I’m sure it can and has been done and would be a viable way . Problem is engine manufacturers make the excuse as ‘cost’. Funny though BMW have never made a decent engine since the e36 and 46 M3 , at least their Lada engine had a twin timing chain ! Bonus seeing as I’ve just done a timing chain on a poxy 2014 Bmw . Cam lobes 10mm wide , poorly designed plastic guides and a single cam chain no stronger than a bicycle. Crappy main and big end bearings , rubbish value train . All they had to do is copy a decent motorbike top end and job done 😡all down to useless cad designers, accountants and EU emissions regulations. If they didn’t put stupid gimmicks on the cars like heated steering wheels and saved a bit of weigh the cars would be more efficient anyway lol
How are you going to oil the cylinder walls and wrist pin bores. The main bearings supply the oil for the connecting rods and the connecting rods squirt oil onto the cylinder walls and wrist pins. You talked about oil cooling the piston skirts. In a 2 stroke engine, the charge of oiled fuel into the crankcase, it cools the piston skirts and cylinder walls. You had a great idea, but without oil holes in the connecting rod and main bearings, it will always have a lubrication problem. If you could use diamond carbide to drill oil holes, it could be a viable bearing set up. Great videos. They definitely give us reason to think of new unheard of projects. Thank you
If you got an old block and cut away the sides so as to leave the crank main bearings sitting high, it would give you better access to weld the crankshaft and it would be streight at the same time. Great project.
Splines, locks and good balancing. Press it together and fit the locking mechanisms (bolts, nuts or other better ways?) That way you should be able to change the bearings and the crank would be less prone for shaking things loose if balanced.
That was cool, could you grind a stock crank down to fit roller bearings into the clearance between the rod and crank then the crank could still lube the bearing you might need to fabricate some skirts to hold oil pressure.
Man, this was done to an American V8 more than 40 years ago, and motorcycles used roller bearings in the bottom ends of both 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines for decades.
I looked into similar design. The crank journals on my design had splines like a drive shaft so instead of welding the journals they are thermally pressed in (journals are frozen in a freezer and the other material is heated. Then you slip the two in and they are joined just factor in the thermal expansion of the metal) there is a hack i do for balancing cranks but ita hard to explain in text. Ita just putting the crank on rollers and the heaver parts fall down. Kinda like balancing a bicycle wheel but more presice. That should solve the issues. I honestly thought the bearings would fail before the crank. Now i know. Great job guys i love it
This is cool two things i would have done pinned the counterweights to the main and rod journal's then welded and drill the oil passage and put oil squirter to oil the piston and bore she'll run One more thing would be great is to run needle bearings on the camshaft with oiling tubes hope this helps
Back in the 1960s, several Top Fuel dragster teams experimented with roller bearings for their crankshafts. The results were that there was no performance increase over conventional mains. Upon thoughts about the result, it was concluded that the cranks floated on a thin film of oil as it was, thus eliminating drag, and so did the cranks when supported by roller bearings. At most, it was a wash, with the cost of converting to roller bearing mains not offsetting any minimal performance increase.
The Germans used ball baring crankshafts in the V-12 Panzer and Tiger engines in WW2. The crankshafts where bolt together design. It took a incredible amount of design, machining and assembly to pull it off but they did. The tank engines ran on gasoline, 7 to 1 compression ratio and 16 litter displacement pumping out around 700hp.
I went and looked this up and that crankshaft from the Maybach HL230 is definitely a bolt up design! its nuts that the whole crank is circular in the entirety of its design
Used in vw also. Needle bearings
Interesting
I hadn't heard of VW crankshafts being built up, but a number of early Porsche cranks were. Especially in the higher-performance cars or race cars.
The typical way those were done was that each piece was bolted through the rod journal onto the next piece. You'd slide the one-piece connecting rod (no need to leave space for rod bolts!!) onto the journal, then bolt it onto the rest of the crank.
I was thinking the same thing with bolting it together .. . Doing like a gear design for the insert and cutout on the other to keep shape ... might have better luck with it holding together
As a mechanic I love your crazy Ideas ! Honda actually build 9000 RPM engines like this for their first cars . I don't know all the details, but you're experts!
Honda s600 and s800 have bearing cranks
I would have gone with either keyways/ an interference fit to lock the parts together, or using liquid nitrogen/helium to shrink and press the parts together with a really tight tolerance
Yes or spline
Fellow engineer here… It would be interesting one to solve thats for sure.
Keyways is a solid idea, maybe even brazed in place just to prevent any shock from the valve strikes.
Interference fitting is a cool solution too provided your materials can meet the condition range. Interference fittings of the same material can have questionable reliability when heated… This often works better with dissimilar metals, where the contracted piece has a lower expansion ratio than the receiving piece… In this way the fit remains super tight throughout the expected temperature range.
Note : Two different types of steel by example can have vastly different ratios.
Simple shank n slot would sufice
I was thinking same
Umm.... Press fit. What's so hard to figure out here? How bikes are...
All of this is wonderful, the interactions between gearheads and shade tree engineers. My opinion just to throw one out there is that a multiple crank is possible using a splined press fit. I think where they ran into trouble was in the balancing, vibration caused their welds to crack. Many large industrial machines use splined press fit parts without issue. As far as the bearings go, 2 piece caged needle bearings would work if the conrod and end caps were lipped to keep the needles in and both were harden.
I tried a keyed press fit, which caused deflection and threw the output shaft out of alignment when I pressed it in. A splined shaft might work.
16:51 So cool to watch people push this kind of backyard engineering this far, man this channel is great!
LOL Motorcycles have been using normal roller bearing and needle bearings for crankshaft in many many years, so this is not that unusual...
Those joints Should be Pressed together, and Not welded !!! ! !!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 Pwy 🙂
Should have used split cage needle roller bearings. You could machine the crankshaft and conrod to suit and with a groove cut in the outer diameter you can still deliver oil to the wrist pin and cylinder walls.
this is great but i think they use roller bearing
@@glt-m2l you can fit a split cage to standard crank, roller bearings means you have a multi piece crank that has to be pressed together with the bearings
I believe that's what was used in many older engines, like the Honda S600 and Bugatti Type 52
Many dirtbikes, ATVs, lawnmowers, etc use needle bearings for the crankshaft to rod rotary connection. Upon doing some research I found that the typical surface bearings used in vehicles need a consistently high oil pressure to prevent damage. This also means that engines that routinely get tipped over, shook, etc rarely use these bearings as the engine can be oriented such that the oil pump receives no oil (ie. dirtbike wrecked on it's side). The needle bearings can survive this as they operate off the oil mist in the crankcase and do not need a consistent oil pressure supply to prevent wear (the film stays on the bearing much longer). Vehicle engines do not ever undergo random losses of oil pressure so the need to have bearings that can survive without oil does not exist, thus they can use the far cheaper surface bearings.
Yes all multi-piece crankshafts use needle bearings on the big end of the rod. Surface bearings need a small layer of oil in between the two surfaces or they will quickly get damaged. That small film of oil is critical
When there is oil plain bearings can take more load
@@servicetrucker5564 Theoretically yes, however it mostly depends on the quality of metals used in the bearings.
Plane bearings also tend to last longer and can handle higher loads at a cost of increased friction.
In those conditions the design simply uses a dry sump design where the oil is scavenged away from the sump and pumped into a separate oil tank. A second pump then pumps the presurised oil from the tank to the crank shell bearings
Motorcycles use a press-fit pin and then you can do the final alignment in a jig with a dial indicator. You might also use a pinned crank, where a hole is drilled and a pin or bolt is inserted to hold alignment rather than welding. On the rods, using a needle bearing would give you thinner bearings to work with, but you need a hard enough surface for them to roll on.
5:97 "a bit of fine tuning with a hammer" I love Garage 54
I rebuild engine and multi piece crank shafts and a hammer is exactly whats required.
Usually a copper or bronze mallet.
IT IS WHAT YOU DO to true up cranks.
It works on single piece cranks too lol.
@@matthemberry Yes that it does too, but I have only used a press and V-blocks for a single piece crank re work
You fellows work well together in solving problems. Sticking with a problem until you solve it no matter how many failures is inspirational. Good work!
YOUR LADAS REMIND ME OF MY OLD 1965 FORD FALCON, 6 CYLINDER, IT MOVED BUT NOT MUCH ELSE. THANKS FOR THE NOSTALGIA GUYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ford falcon, simplicity at its very best! I had a 66, 68 and 70 Falcons that were transplanted with 428CJ engines, back when gas was $0.29 a gallon. Before Reagan destroyed the American an dream. I have had to drive a mini car since.
@@charleslum2438 BEFORE THE DARK TIMES, BEFORE RAGANOMICS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are not mechanics. You are engineers and artists. Master craftsmen
Don't forget to drill a hole in the bearing race and match it up with the oil feed in the main journals.
Have you ever “drilled” a hole in a bearing race?
Indeed, make sure to get it in the center of the race so oil gets fed directly to the anti-friction elements! That will ensure bearing longevity!
@@Highstranger951 yes, - center punch the area and start small with a good set of carbide drill bits. A drill press is highly recommended for depth. I also center the bearing cage so that I don't knick a B.B. I work for a transmission shop, and I also work with dirt bike engines, drilling a hole in the bearing can be very helpful in old 2 stroke motorcycle engine "if done properly and patiently".
Y’all are full of shit
Well, that’s the first time I’ve seen someone stick weld a crankshaft
it's insane how talented these guys are
No!
It's a talent how insane they are!
@@Rob-fc9wg also true!
as you said ; both insane and talented ; in all the good ways ; now imagine how good the Buggatti engineers where and the fabricators 100years ago.
Yes Russians not to be under estimated. Also incredible electrical engineers also. Which took off doing similar tactics with electronics and motors "things that don't make sense/break laws of physics" and kept most of their discoveries secret.
All that glitters is not gold..
Props to Sergei for thinking to put some 2 stroke oil in the fuel... That's kind of brilliant👍
Like a rotary!
Harley's have been using roller bottom ends forever, no need for 2 stroke oil in the fuel.
@@codyhatch4607 well, Harleys are designed for it. In this case they might have inadvertantly covered/blocked some oil passages. (PS I didn't know Harleys had roller bottom ends... That's cool)
@@colestowing8695 Not when rebuild time comes. Ya they have dry sumps as well.
In a 4stroke it will only lube the inlet, exhaust valves and piston crowns
My 1981 H-D has needle bearings in the lower end and you can tell when they go bad also. I had 78,000 miles on it and it was shaking like Charo(Latin dancer) and knocking like a diesel.
Thanks for sharing the video post, best of luck 🍀to you, your crew and families ❤️
Cool story bro
Cuchi cuchi chachacha
If they simply just fill the rod end and bearing caps with needle bearings to match the size of the original ones, they could have a “roller bearing” engine that revs like a motorbike, using an original crank and they would receive proper lubrication. Ball bearings will eventually seize without continuous lubrication.
Facts man I thought that while they making the crank. Not the needle bearing thing but there are no oil passages in that crank at all with no lubrication on the bearings it’s of course going to fail
Will not work the crank and rod are not hard enough for metal on metal
bearings race are way harder than the conrod
And you still need a cage for the roller bearings so you need a multi piece crank that is press fit and bike conrod are one piece normally
And motor like the gsxr1000 use normal half moon bearings just like the stock Lada engine use
@@legros731 they make split needle bearings. There’s two in my manual transmission.
@@suzysuzuki8865 Hear me out, now.
What if you took needle bearings...
and fused all the needles together to make one giant round piece
and made the outer race part of the conrods
and made the inner race part of the block and caps
and drilled holes to pump oil into it,
wouldn't that be cool?
1000% correct!!!
These guys are really good fabricators. I absolutely love their experiments and the name of their channel. It's hard to give these guys good ideas. They've got the resources and know how to do almost anything. But it has to be cost sensible and produce a decent amount of content.
Drill almost right through each lobe of the crank shaft and insert roll pins all the way through, that should hold each section together. You could even tap the hole and cap it off with a set screw, use loctite thread locker for extra security and that way the pin has no chance of working it's way out.
Bolts.. roll pins twill shear..
Instead of a roll pin put a taper pin, then once it is held tight weld up nicely.
May be not make the holes perfect circles so the rotational stress is eliminated form the welds? I'm not a machinist so not sure how difficult would it be.
Also taper the to be weld surfaces so there is a cove to fill with weld? Again, not a welder but intuition says that would be a way stronger weld. May be they did it already
NO.. it needs square mating surfaces,& or woodroof keys..
A very cool idea and it did work although temporarily. I have seen a roller bearing cam shaft something from the 60's I believe. It had a 2 peace bearing with some type of rollers inside and the halves were held together with a tiny spring like in a seal and allowed oil flow into the center of the bearing to lube the rollers. That's the only one I have ever seen and even a couple hot rod buddies never heard of such a thing. It was purchased in a whole bunch of old circle track car parts from the 50' to the 70's, sadly I don't know what it fits but I assume a Chevrolet. If anyone has ever heard of such a thing I would love to hear about it. But what I was getting at is, that would be the best way I can think of to make a ball bearing crank shaft and would it would definitely free up the crank shaft. Love your videos, you guys rock.
I like how you guys tear apart the project afterwards to find the failures.
Absolute
And then explaining what's going on too
This was fantastic idea. And I think some improvements can be made. Yes balancing is important, but I would like to see much tighter tolerances machined into the holes that the journals need to be pressed into. In this way should make the crank shaft easier to keep true in alignment. Also add into the engine a separate oiling system that is fed by the oil pump. This system would would have small tubes [copper] shaped into squirter that is aimed at the under side of the piston. Splashing will happen as the piston travels up and down spraying oil onto cylinder walls. Making a small chamfered hole on the external part of the connecting rods will allow some of that lol to seep into the wrist pin end of the connecting rod. I would most definitely love to see a revisit on this engine hack. Keep up the great experiments you do to these cars and engines, love your show!
One day will you put a supercharger where the water pump goes and see if you can air cool a liquid cooled engine finally since we've asked a thousand times now???
It will work...
Until it doesn't.
Hi. Honestly, this is the first time I've ever seen anybody making this sort of suggestion.
Well I think more than a supercharger is needed. Maybe a couple air conditioning units could however
When you compress stuff, it gets hot. How much airflow would you need through those small spaces just to remove additional heat? I don't think that's possible for much longer than running it dry.
That's a really stupid idea, and why they never did it.
NTN has developed split roller bearings for automotive applications, including camshafts. These look like a great idea for reducing friction. Ball bearings are not good for lateral thrust applications whereas rollers are.
Great job getting this done! The belated oil circuit confusion was entertaining. Might have to introduce some oil jets to splash the bottom of the pistons? Perhaps cross-pins through the intersections of the crank might have helped? Maybach and others successfully built tunnel crankshaft engines but these require bearing internal diameters larger than the crank throw. Doubt there is enough room to modify the crankcase for that in a Lada.
Ever since owning a couple of Niva 4x4, I have always admired the simplicity and ruggedness of Russian vehicles. The Niva would often go places that vehicles costing 10x more could not. But they would have benefited from a 2 litre engine and maybe 300mm increase in overall length for road use. You could buy them new with a 2L Toyota diesel in New Zealand when Lada cars were taken in exchange for dairy products in the 1980s. A local company converted new Niva’s and they really were much improved by this engine.
Love this channel - subscribed! 👍🏻
There is a reason for plain bearings instead of ball/needle bearings. The contacting surface of a ball/needle bearing is a tiny spot. Meanwhile the contacting surface of a plain bearing is almost a 180° of the circle.
they should have used the "roller bearing"... (idk the name in english but you hopefully understand, instead of ball it's cylinders...)
Exactly what i thought as soon as he said ball bearing.
Though some 2-strokes have ball bearings. Must be something different there. I dunno. I'm just a body man.
@@UberLummox I guess it's because two strokes don't have pressurized oil circulating. Easier for the oil to move through a ball bearing I think
@@norrlandstruggles9798 Ok thanks!
I'm so impressed that you do such advanced research with simple manual lathes and mills. It shows true genius that you solve complex problems with basic shop equipment.
Your statement made me laugh so hard........🤣
Vlad has a great mechanical mind. Always enjoyable. Greetings from USA.
I think if the pins for the bearings were splined to mate with the crank throws and press fit then welded if may be more durable but I think you guys did a fantastic job for your first attempt.
2 strokes have been using roller bearings in the crank, rods and piston wrist pin forever. Of course it’s because they are oiled through the fuel so no oil pump or oil bath for the bearings.
2 strokes have twice the number of combustion cycles - but they're half as big. Bugatti, Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes, Lotus, BRM, Honda (and more) have all tried roller bearing bottom ends and NEVER get it to work right in a 4 stroke.
@@GroovesAndLands Many motorbikes have roller bearing cranks. Not just 2 strokes, but for instance the original suzuki GS range of four strokes. Made them bullet proof
@@GroovesAndLands But many high performance motorcycle manufacturers have made it work very reliably.
@@gs425 I've been saying exactly the same thing as you have.
I love you guys! There is no other channel that could be compared to yours. Not just mind blowing, and well implemented projects, but expert skills and scientific explanation behind it. Greetings from Hungary! ☺️
What you should do next is to make a crossplane i4 engine by cutting and welding the crank as well as the camshaft for the new timing of the engine. I would love to hear a car with such a unique engine.
there was a rally car that used a crossplane for their i4 because it yielded better results in the corners iirc
Dude a cross-plane I-4 woukd sounds so cool
The ingenuity and the fact that you were actually successful only limited was a great step forward. Perhaps one day someone will be able to perfect it and it will be revolutionary for future engines. Great Job!
my 50-cc scooter has needle bearings on the crank and wrist pin.
the average rpm is around 6 to 10 grand. granted it is a single cylinder 4 stroke, but maybe using bearings on a small 4 banger might be viable.
bearings on the crank mains are quite common in motorcycles
Ball bearings won't last on crank, needle bearings will (lots more surface area). Balls will quickly get flat spots.
@@Rudy97 Roller bearings will last though, like used on a lot of motorbike engines.
I wonder how much Performanceyou can get from a Lada engine just from adding EFI, ECUs, the ball bearings shown here, or even a turbo., but without swapping rods, pistons, or cranks.
Every 2 stroke motorcycle has ball bearings for the crank and roller and needle bearings for the Rod, nothing strange, they work, rev very High and last long, Classic vespa engines last 100k km sometimes before rebuilt, and very powerful 125-250 bikes can last 50k with no problem, modern scooters are less reliable because cheap construction and the strain of the offcenter belt and CVT eats the crank bearings but they also can last
I wanted to do this (in theory) since I was a young man (40+ Years ago). I never tried it.
I didn't have the resources. You guys are now fulfilling (one of) my dream(s).
Thank You from the bottom of my Heart!! ❤👍🙂
Lawn boy mowers were very well known to have a needle bearings in the crankshaft end it was very rare for them to ever have problems and would last as many times as you could get away with rebuilding the engine
That's true, but it was also a 2 stroke with oil and gas being drawn through the crank area.
Needle bearings were also common in two stroke small ends
@@kleetus92 Ive got alot of 4 strokes that have ball bearing cranks with needle bearing rods. Idk why people keep talking like its a 2 stroke only thing.
@@jonpippen6998 I've seen a few hondas with ball bearing mains, but never saw anything with needle bearing rods in 4 stroke. What engine/application?
@@kleetus92 Look into gy6 150s Or CN250s or Linhai/vog 250/260/300s Just to name a few. Many many 4 stroke atv/bike motors are the same also. One piece cranks/rods (pressed together) with ball bearing mains and needle bearing big ends. No bearings on the small ends tho.
Hondas in the 60’s when they first started making cars did this on everything, it needed no oil pressure
I have thought of this for some years now. The solution i came up with for connecting the journals to the crank arms was a light press fit with machined splines, keyway, or some sort of interference rotational wise fit. A flat spot in the circle of both meshing parts. Then secure it together with a decent sized bolt and a beefy washer. I’ve dreamed of designing and building a stackable single cylinder heavy duty industrial engine like this. Design each cylinder so it could be mated to other cylinders either on end or in a v configuration.
That's a very interesting idea 😃!
square mating surfaces, not round,,& woodroof keys.. or splined..this is why manufacturers dont do it..too much head fk & unreliable at 7000 revs..
Splined crankshaft with needle bearings was standard on Hirth aircraft engines in the -30s
Splined crankshaft with needle bearings was standard on Hirth aircraft engines in the -30s
The built-up ball or needle bearing motorcycle cranks I've seen have been pressed together.
Sergei, always thinking 10 steps ahead.
I tore down a marine engine when i was young that used needle bearing assemblies mounted on a forged crankshaft.
The design was really neat, the outer race was unevenly split and had two grooves on the outside that spring steel retainer rings would fit on to hold the outer race together while assembling.
If you looked at the outer race from the side the split would look like this [ / ].
I thought about it for a while and concluded that they split them at an angle like that so that the needle bearings would not hang up because it would only encounter a small portion of the seam as it was rolling by.
There were oil port holes in them too, and the journals had a small groove for oil to travel freely to the oil port on the race..
After seeing that, i always thought that oil bathed needle bearings, or a more chunky roller bearing would be the best alternative (hopefully more durable) solution to soft metal solid bearings or bushings.
13:31
God damn, this man knows what he is doing. In this stupid idea, the amount of knowledge, theory and physics used shows how great mechanic he is right now, we will see where he will be in 10 years!
yup lol, figured since they were going to delete most of the crank oil splashing system he'd give it a chance with premix.
Agreed!
Yhea I was actually surprised he did that.
Many years ago, someone special ordered a Volkswagen crankshaft assembled with either ball bearings or with needle bearings, it was used in the pancake style air cooled 4 cylinder, it came from Germany.
On top of welding, maybe drilling and pinning each joint would strengthen it up.
Just wrote similar myself 😅😅😅
That was a GREAT Effort . Yes , Torrington Roller conversion would be the way with a Cast Crank .
Alternatively , for a Built-Up , Multi piece Crank , it needs Machining to 120 Ton Press assembly tolerances . Needs doing in an Alignment Jig .
And the Other Version involves Fine Sliding fit , Keyed for Alignment and using High Tensile Bolt and Nut assembly through the Journals .
Ultra High precision Machining .
Ive thought about this forever its amazing to see it done.
Plane bearings (shells) are going to provide much better thrust load capacity and much less friction. But this is fun to watch !
Can you try to make a cross-plane crank? Like the YZF R1?
Very good effort. I have never seen anything kill this before. Genius idea!!!!!!!! 10 out 10 the idea and effort and the fact it started and ran for few minutes. Keep it up and maybe sports engine makers might learn something from you. Try and sell this idea to some big company with the condition that you will work on the engine yourself in there facility and make the first sport engine crank shaft running on ball bearings
Finally With ur video my lunch is going to be perfect 👍🏼
And my dinner
It is always entertaining and educational when watching Garage 54 videos. Thank you! Greetings from Ohio, USA.
Love garage 54 these guys are epic
Great content! Needle bearing would have been a better option but it would loose a lot of oil pressure but overall it would be easier to assemble, there would be no needed to cut the crankshaft, but the bearings would have to be made from scratch for them to be split in 2 to replace the original bearings, this is a very good idea!
Is Sergei the son of Vlad? If so, it’s really neat to see them be able to work together. Even if not, they’ve got a great rapport and are a fun team to watch!
until sergei is drafted for putins crazy war
these guys are kinda impressive. Others will think themselves to be badasses because they buy fancy parts and build a motor out of it, these lads straight up built their own god damn crankshaft because they wanted to.. and it works. Absolutely impressive.
This has been done before by automotive companies. Even with today modern engines there's about 6% of fuel saving with roller bearings.
The problem is the assembly is rather expensive and noise and vibration harshness is a big issue with them
What Ford will do on their 1.0Ecoboost mild hybrid is to install a roller bearing on the first crankshaft bearing pulley side. So to cover for the bigger loads due to the high torque there because of the belt starter generator. Gives about 2% fuel saving too overall. But they have to go long ways to reduce NVH
I think that is a good idea for Ford, but as these engines become more expensive, who can afford them. They are not high-priced Mercedes models! Maybe they could make this special crankshaft and the motor block so tough, that it lasts for 2 or 3 cars. Then sell the first car and lease its motor, so they can get the used motor block back later on and put it into the next model ! Silly idea maybe?
I am having a Ford Tourneo 1.0 Eco boost, 95000km, frequent oil-changes ( twice per year) the engine is a little bit louder, than when new.
@@konradcomrade4845 no in 1972 VW thought about something different. The long term car. So after 10 or 15 years the dealer could swap you in a more modern drivetrain or update other stuff instead of buying a whole new car to protect the environment with less material and energy usage. Guess where that idea landed in the end
A lot of motorcycle crankshafts are press-fit with some being doweled and/or having keyways and use roller bearings on the ends and/or the middle as well. Cool approach to it though!
Let’s all drop a like for Garage 54’s top notch content.
Hey well done on listening to your subscribers with getting merch 👌
We all love your whacky crazy car channel. I never miss an episode. Thanks for your contribution of awesome content for us all to watch for free 👍
I would love to see you build a rotary motor .
Rotary Lada engine?:)
I would call that a success! It ran, drove. Ok it didn’t last too long because of the weld issue but with some refinement it may last much longer. Great work! I think a version 2.0 with needle roller bearings. Maybe the different sections of crank can be machined to thread together before welding for extra contact.
Wonder if you could spline the ends of the crankshaft sections and eliminate the need for welding. Might even be able to replace only the broke parts when it blew that way.🤔
Was thinking that myself.
I was thinking of splines with a retainer ring kind of thing
There is actually no need to go to the extra complication of macining splined components just a simple pressed together interference fit is all that is required to do the job reliably. That is how most of the commercially made built up crankshafts are assembled.
In the 1960's there was a car called the Inch Pincher that had roller bearings on the crankshaft ( main bearings and connector rod bearings ) it showed up at the drag strip every Sunday . It was a V.W. bug , went like stink ( for a V.W. ) PS you can buy split roller bearing so you don't have to take the crankshaft apart , we used them on the trim saws in the sawmill . Shaft was over forty feet long so stripping it down to replace a center bearing would have take all day . Bearing could be replaced during a coffee break or between shifts with the split roller bearing. They seemed to last a long , long time ( 1800 rpm , 16 hours a day ) The mill was a forty foot mill cutting hemlock
many years ago a company called SPG made roller bearing crankshafts for VW and Porche... you need a modified oiling system as the roller bearing require a lot more volume
The Saab 96 had ball bearing crankshaft, some old Morris's did too.
@@Tore_Lund did not know that.... I just know that they (roller bearing crankshafts) are very expensive and engine blocks/cases have to be specially modified to use one if its not made that way from the factory
@@williamaittala7700 They also had to be overhauled every 50.000km, if I remember correctly, but that as 1950' tech basically, materials today might be better, The Saab was two stroke, so it was obvious to use roller bearings like in a moped engine when there was oil in the gasoline already.
Spray oiling. Grind notches in the bearing shell that would spray. Also would run a 30mm pump
This has been done decades ago. An entry into the INDY races, it proved to be less reliable than plain bearings. Rollers just don't tolerate oil contamination or debris. But their solution was a split type bearing, like a clam shell bearing so the crank is forged and not welded. It's very entertaining and interesting to see it done in this video.
The webs and pins should have been a press/interference fit, no need to weld. common practice on old multi-cylinder motorcycle engines revving to 10,000 rpm. Suzuki gs1000 to name one.
See also Kawasaki cranks, Allen Millyard must have a hundred videos showing his custom ones. Brilliant idea, and like you say, they can rev some. But are they ever a chore to fix!
@@creepingjesus5106 Pin-together cranks work fine on 2 strokes, where the combustion pulses are half as strong but come twice as often. 4 strokes? Not so much.
@@GroovesAndLands Wrong! There are loads of reliable high output 4 stroke motorcycle engines that run ball and roller bearing cranks without reliability issues.
My 2 stroke boat engines use a roller Bearing on the cranks and mains. Slick set ups.
i thought the engine sounded like it needs a higher rpm idle because the crank's rotating mass is a lot less, would need a heavier than stock flywheel to compensate
I haven't heard of any production cars with ball bearing crankshafts, but roller bearing cranks were definitely a think in the 50s and 60s. They are better than oil-fed plain bearings for high revs but loading them up at low revs will trash the bearings quickly. Roller bearings are much stronger and more durable for radial loads (which a crankshaft journal sees) but have very little side load capacity (which would be front-back loading in a crankshaft, and is unnecessary because thrust bearings take those loads). Another big difference is that roller bearing cranks always use open bearings, not grease-lubricated sealed bearings. The rollers and races need to be splashed with fresh oil. Grease and rubber seals will harden and break down over time. Oil will seep in and wash the grease away, but won't flow enough to properly lube the bearings. Also, debris in the oil will get trapped.
Try recessed cross pins, then weld those in place. the journals should be press fit. Keep up the good work!!!🥸
i love the madness, the planning and engineering and the work. very good fun. loving the content.
Lots of motorcycles have roller bearing crankshafts on the conrod big ends, sometimes even on the little ends at the piston pin.
My old 1976 yamaha 650 had full roller bearings on both big and little ends, such a well designed engine. 👍
Needed to be splined together. Some snow mobiles have roller bearing cranks and they use keyways and slines to mechanically connnect the peices.
Also balancing would remove the excess stress. I’m sure that had a lot to do with the failure. Hope you decide to keep working on it. I want to see it rev up and run!
This is cool, I love to watch hou guys do all this. My concern with bearings on the crankshaft would be pitting from the constant pounding. Especially if pre-ignition occurs.
I think splined pins might have lasted a little longer then weld them where you can reach or use set screws so the bearings could be servicable. Great content, guys! I really enjoy your videos! You guys do the things I just get to think about.
I've always wondered why the big manufacturers never pursued this as it has to reduce frictional losses by a big amount thereby upping efficiency by a more than just a small, perceptible amount. Glad someone finally did it. Maybe each race should have had a few very small holes drilled in them to allow oil to flow similar how its fed to regular bearings
What a blast , funny as guys 👍obviously there are better solutions but to have a go with limited machinery! I think you did rather well . In an ideal world maybe spline and shrink fit the crank and have a one piece rod with needle roller bearings , this would then need hardened journals etc . There will always be an issue with crank flex and balance really . The other ideal solution would be to have roller bearings with split hardened shells with the joint at an angle so the rollers don’t hit a joint square . Nothings easy unless you have access to quality machinery. Love stuff like this , can’t wait till you decide to build an aircraft 😇🇬🇧👍👍👍
A lot of guys would just get a Lada crank from the junkyard, but I love the fact that you guys are nuts enough to even TRY such a thing!
ball bearings are good and last forever on even rotational forces without major vibrations or temperature variations*. Crankshaft on the other hand have pretty hard rotational forces that depending the work* of the engine, shift dramatically. That's why they use oil pressure. Zero metal to metal contacts, minimum friction, runs cooler and the oil works as a dumping material to absorb any vibrations coming from the rods
I built a roller crank 400 Chevy back in 1980. Biggest problem was floating valves and rods that didn't want to "cooperate". But it was fun while it run.
I love how they explain whatever was wrong and right in this channel. I don't want to watch any more but it's addicting.
Who takes decades of engineering, world wide practices, and tons of highly educated engineers and mathematicians ideas, and just scoffs at all this? Vlad . And that is why we love him.
Dude i love this show, it’ll be the first ever TH-cam channel I buy merch from
I've done this before, you need to make each part of the crankshaft mate using a square or keyed end that inserts into an equivalent recess on the other, this way, they "lock" into place, then you put a bolt through to tighten them. :)
Pozdrav iz Srbije, braco Rusi, odlicni su vam videi. Legende ste 💪
You should drill very small holes in the bearings to get lubrication and cool down on the bearings. Plus you will get the oil splash under the piston. Try a normal crankshaft to get distribution of oil. I think you can try a bolt to bolt the crankshaft together at the bearings. Will be a little heavier but should add torque. You wel dial pins to keep it from turning and lock it in place.
Fun fact my friend Steve who is between the age of 70 to 90 has made a ball bearing engine that want to go kart race back in like the 50s or 60s and the guy has multiple patents on electric heart pumps and things of that touch but to see you guys do this is awesome much appreciated put my friend Steve in mind
8:12 ... Bardahl!! My younger brother (rip) always drove a Ford diesel pickup truck, as he could get Diesel Fuel free at work, but not gas :) ..
And He always used Bardah Oil, for Diesel engines, as that's the brand EVERY truck in the company fleet used for Oil and Additives!!!
How about roller bearings for all bearings except for the center main bearing. Use the center main bearing with a well oiled ball bearing to allow for thermal expansion while keeping the crankshaft centered.
Like they do in large jet engines. Rods would use roller bearings too. High oil flow would be required for cooling but high pressure would not be required. Tolerances would need to be very tight. Higher quality metallurgy with minimal thermal expansion and strength. While retaining flexibility in the steel alloy would probably be required. In the block, crank and rods. It might up the cost just a bit? There would be weight penalty in using steel vs aluminum. That could be partially compensated by use of lighter secondary parts. Aluminum heads, fuel and oul pumps.
All is ask is don't be BMW and use plastic anywhere in the engine. Maybe the intake manifold? But that's it.
Some good ideas , and agree . One of the problems will always be ‘pick up ‘ on the bearing faces and even if they could get away with a standard crank , journals would have to be hardened and ground unless split inner and outer races were used . I’m sure it can and has been done and would be a
viable way . Problem is engine manufacturers make the excuse as ‘cost’. Funny though BMW have never made a
decent engine since the e36 and 46 M3 , at least their Lada engine had a twin timing chain ! Bonus seeing as I’ve just done a
timing chain on a poxy 2014 Bmw . Cam lobes 10mm wide , poorly designed plastic guides and a single cam chain no stronger than a bicycle. Crappy main and big end bearings , rubbish value train . All they had to do is copy a decent motorbike top end and job done 😡all down to useless cad designers, accountants and EU emissions regulations. If they didn’t put stupid gimmicks on the cars like heated steering wheels and saved a bit of weigh the cars would be more efficient anyway lol
@@newagetemplar6100 Thanks for the validation. When BMW went to plastic oil pans. I just gave up on them.
How are you going to oil the cylinder walls and wrist pin bores. The main bearings supply the oil for the connecting rods and the connecting rods squirt oil onto the cylinder walls and wrist pins. You talked about oil cooling the piston skirts. In a 2 stroke engine, the charge of oiled fuel into the crankcase, it cools the piston skirts and cylinder walls. You had a great idea, but without oil holes in the connecting rod and main bearings, it will always have a lubrication problem. If you could use diamond carbide to drill oil holes, it could be a viable bearing set up. Great videos. They definitely give us reason to think of new unheard of projects. Thank you
Guinea Piggery. LOL My vocabulary never stops growing watching this crazy bunch. Love it.
If you got an old block and cut away the sides so as to leave the crank main bearings sitting high, it would give you better access to weld the crankshaft and it would be streight at the same time. Great project.
I would have thought this would last about 12 seconds, but it drove around like a little champ. Nice work...well as far as it did go anyway
Omg 😆
This guy is great !
He actually is very knowledgeable and is doing a lot of RD which is something early engineers should have been faced with
Splines, locks and good balancing. Press it together and fit the locking mechanisms (bolts, nuts or other better ways?) That way you should be able to change the bearings and the crank would be less prone for shaking things loose if balanced.
That was cool, could you grind a stock crank down to fit roller bearings into the clearance between the rod and crank then the crank could still lube the bearing you might need to fabricate some skirts to hold oil pressure.
Man, this was done to an American V8 more than 40 years ago, and motorcycles used roller bearings in the bottom ends of both 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines for decades.
I looked into similar design. The crank journals on my design had splines like a drive shaft so instead of welding the journals they are thermally pressed in (journals are frozen in a freezer and the other material is heated. Then you slip the two in and they are joined just factor in the thermal expansion of the metal) there is a hack i do for balancing cranks but ita hard to explain in text. Ita just putting the crank on rollers and the heaver parts fall down. Kinda like balancing a bicycle wheel but more presice.
That should solve the issues. I honestly thought the bearings would fail before the crank. Now i know. Great job guys i love it
This is cool two things i would have done pinned the counterweights to the main and rod journal's then welded and drill the oil passage and put oil squirter to oil the piston and bore she'll run
One more thing would be great is to run needle bearings on the camshaft with oiling tubes hope this helps
Back in the 1960s, several Top Fuel dragster teams experimented with roller bearings for their crankshafts. The results were that there was no performance increase over conventional mains. Upon thoughts about the result, it was concluded that the cranks floated on a thin film of oil as it was, thus eliminating drag, and so did the cranks when supported by roller bearings. At most, it was a wash, with the cost of converting to roller bearing mains not offsetting any minimal performance increase.