DC Fast Charging The Toyota bZ4X From 0-100% Is An Exercise In Patience! (AWD 72.8kWh CATL Battery)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2022
- Kyle is in California with the electric 2022 Toyota bZ4X AWD and heads to a DC Fast Charger for our usual charging assessment. Join him as he charges from dead to nearly full at an Electrify America DC Fast Charging CCS station. The bZ4X AWD will be nearly identical to the Subaru Solterra sold here in the USA.
Link to charging spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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#Toyota #bZ4X #Solterra - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Toyota mindset: “Let’s build a car that won’t cannibalize any of our existing gas vehicles”.
Or more likely, "Damm, looks like EV's are getting to be a thing, hey team go and scrounge up some batteries, motors etc, so we can say we have one".
I doubt that's the reason. They were the first company to double down on electrification in the early 2000's. Problem is they wanted hydrogen and solid state batteries to be their solution to the EV problem and didn't look at intermediate steps until they had too.
@@jhmcd2 Over the past 2 years I have come to believe that Toyota's electrification was just a ploy to be able to play on both sides as it has become abundantly clear that as the market is moving more and more to full EV they are throwing up as many roadblocks as they can to keep it from happening. Their claims of a Solid State battery are complete BS and again I think it is a ploy to keep current Toyota buyers from buying a competing car on the belief that Toyota will have a superior EV very soon. I have never owned a Toyota but always had a respect for the products they produce. I now have 0 respect for Toyota and plan to never own one of their products.
so in other words, a company looking out for its own best interests - if I worked for Toyota, I would applaud this.
@@MBergyman So, intentionally blocking new technologies progress because your company bet on the wrong horse and putting out subpar products so as not to erode your existing products is something you applaud? Not exactly good long term business strategies.
Another excellent video. Imagine in Canada where it's cold down to -30 in winter. It will take 2 days to recharge 😂
LMAFO only go outside twice a week.
Well, a good number is no indication that winter charging will be good, as is proven by Ioniq 5 / Kia EV6.
They are horribly slow in winter...
@@steinareliassen385 I believe Hyundai/kia will be releasing an update to give it a precondition button to get faster charging
@@MIA7Xthies Maybe. Maybe it will only be avail for the 2023 model. Maybe it will not happen. They have not stated anything certain yet.
@Koemgen2000 It'll look similar to the Mach E at 22kW at -9°C.... Pity
Thanks Kyle for being honest and upfront about the vehicle without being off-putting or rude. It's refreshing to hear that instead of the rigid reviews that merely rattle off the specsheet.
now i love my ID4 even more after watching this video
Yeah, that charging curve would rule this car out for me. It will be interesting to see how the FWD version behaves.
The FWD version supposedly has 150kwh charging - much faster than the AWD 100kwh. Why Toyota/Subaru thought this was acceptable is beyond me. While I would generally prefer the Subie Solterra, this one fact would swing me to the FWD bz4x (well, actually, it'd probably be an id.4 or Ioniq 5).
One TH-camr's video shows that BZ4X FWD (JPN spec) with a Panasonic battery took 30 minutes to charge from 20% to 71% when charged on a 90kW charger (Chademo); I guess it would be much faster with a 150 kW charger. However, probably the third full charge on the same day was slowed down along the way for maybe battery protection from any possible factor as per ToyotaNorth America's disclaimer. Such protection may be useful but I wonder who charges more than twice a day
Hi! You are right that at least Norway will get 150 fast charging with a 71,4 kWh battery. Toyota confirmed it before I ordered it.
I was called to complete my order for the Subaru version. So very glad I saw this. Thank you Kyle. Saved me the I’ve 52k for the car plus’s dealer said there is a min $2500 mark up. So I was out the door at 60k before tax incentives for an adventure car I couldn’t take on an adventure
hope may be its a start phase and they will ramp it up later.... but... no no no :(
For that money Tesla beats everything.
@@elliothacker The Solterra has the same battery and charger as the AWD bz4x. The FWD bz4x has a different battery and faster charger.
thank you for the charging review. I will stay with id4 (preordered last august. still waiting)
Kyle, I would love to see the BZ4x/Solterra vs. ID.4 vs. Mach E charging curve (maybe even add IONIQ 5 for a best/good/bad breakdown). They are all in the same price category and will be cross-shopped.
Kyle, I really appreciate your work on these videos. I have a reservation for a Solterra and wasn’t entirely sold on going through with the purchase. Now I am sure I won’t buy one because my ten year old Ford Focus Electric without DCFC somehow manages to charge faster at high SOC than this thing. It’s incredible that the Bolt is far superior on 10-90% despite 5 year old tech. Toyota *really* doesn’t want to sell EVs I guess
Toyota doesnt have EV. That's a Subaru rebadged as Toyota.
Subaru know the Solterra is not for long road trips that's why they include free ICE rentals:
"Customers who lease or purchase a Solterra will receive up to 10 days of free Subaru rentals from their participating dealerships, enabling them to choose a gasoline-powered vehicle for road trips or other needs."
They really don't. They're importing 7k of these things into the USA in its first year.
Tesla sell more than that in a week
@@timaustin2000 They dont need to, because Scotty Kilmer works very hard to cheerlead Toyotas, especially 94 Celicas. How many get duped? :)
@@bmw803 "Toyota designed the battery architecture, body, and cabin, while Subaru handled the all-wheel-drive system" -TechCrunch. Maybe you forgot, but Toyota pioneered electric vehicles for the mass market. Remember in the 90's when everyone used to make fun of Prius owners for being smug about going green? Toyota has sold over 15 million electrified cars.
Thanks for putting out the the information for us! This card checked many boxes for me, living out in the country ground clearance is important for me, but that charging speed it is a deal breaker for me.
This really surprised me. Now, I have a Bolt, which charges even slower than these. But I've had that car for 5 years. It's not a problem because 99% of my charging is L2 at home/work. My wife is thinking of going electric, and I mentioned that Subaru is coming out with the Solterra (same as the bZ4X basically) and she read that it had slower charging. I was surprised that a car to be released now would be only twice as fast as my Bolt (should be at least 4 times faster), but yep. That is disappointing for any car designed recently to be that slow...
Have you gotten your brand new slightly higher capacity cells?
@@fjalics Yep, got the new pack at the end of December, just after my Bolt hit 100k. Nice to know I have some more range and an extended warranty.
@@desiv1170 Nice. My wife got hers too. Not a lot of miles on hers, but happy to charge in the garage again. Some people pick on the Bolt, but if you didn't want to pay Tesla money, it was the best out there in 2017, and even now, most base model EVs start over 40, not 30. Love my Tesla, but it was a lot more.
Your bolt would charge 0 to 100 faster. Probably even 0 to 90
@@markrichards9792 True, but my wife wouldn't go with me on the longer trips if I tried that... .. er.. um... Hey! :-)
yes , another excellent charge test.Also Loved the road test in the San Gabriel Mountains.You and your co-pilot carved my favorite roads that I road a bicycle, motorcycle and learners permit on.Will be getting a fwd Bz4x fwd limited this year,staying close to my ,soon to be installed, home with solar roof (TESLA). So i will confuse people with "powered by Tesla " on my Toyota ev.
I really appreciate that both you and Tom are emphasizing that in the real world it is seldom necessary to charge beyond 80%. It seems obvious to those of us who have been driving EVs for years but so many people are buying their first EV and have a hard time breaking that "Fill 'er up!" mentality. Unless you *Really* need that extra range to make it to your next charge it is counterproductive to charge beyond 80, especially if people are waiting to use the charger.
Our Polestar says on the charging screen they recommend always charging to 90% so there’s that..
@@Uggrukor They actually say "Always"??? Most lithium cell chemistries are happiest about 50%, not that 50% is all that practical for long trips. For daily 30 mile round trip average commutes that provides no advantage that i can see.
The newer LFP-chemistry battery packs (ref. Tesla M3 Std Range- the “Hertz Cars”) tolerate 100% charging without the degradation associated with NCA-chemistry batteries, enabling greater useable range from a smaller battery pack.
@@Miata822 50% is only for storage. If you are driving regularly 80-90% is fine
This is true, but there are many occasions during trips where you do need to charge to 70-80% just to make it to the next charger, especially with inefficient EVs like this, and the charging speed of this car is unacceptably slow compared to others in the same price range. If you pull into a charger at 10% and charge to 80%, that means you are driving about 2-2.5 hrs (or less In the winter or in areas of higher speed limits) and then have to stop for an hour. I’ve done that many times in my Bolt and I’ll tell you, it makes trips really, REALLY long.
Will you do a curve on the FWD? Such similar size pack so maybe this is early software and they can unlock more speed later? Would be interesting to see overlaid curves for both cars
I thought we might be interested in replacing a 2015 Leaf with the Subaru version of this car. It doesn’t need to have fast charging for us but this seems like it’s so bad that it might affect resale as EV’s become more common and people learn about charging curves.
Perhaps some software updates will help, as you suggested, I think we saw that with both the iD.4 and MME.
I agree it would be interesting to compare this to the FWD vehicle. FWD version uses a different battery pack which can theoretically handle 150kW charging.
FWD uses a completely different battery, I think from Panasonic. AWD has Chinese batteries from CATL (in the US at least). Panasonic is perfectly capable of fast charging, CATL apparently not so much...
Thanks, I wanted one of these but changed my mind because of reviews like this. I’m a loyal watcher or your EV reviews! You and Alyssa do a nice job.
I have a $250 deposit in on a Fisker Ocean Sport.
Might look into the front wheel drive model once it's tested. Really this is the only SUV that has any decent ground clearance. So if that's an issue that's a concern for you definitely keep that in mind. I just wonder why they had to use two different battery suppliers at all?
@@kens97sto171 it’s the one I have the Sport model $37,499….. with the Tax rebates, it’s a no brainer.
We’ll see.
You are never getting the car.
@@yatinkheti2427 lol 😂
@@LetsgoOcean Do you think you are actually getting it?
Summary:
Toyota 10 to 80 % : 58 minutes
(Hyundai Ioniq 5/ Kia EV6: 18 mins in ideal condition. 35 mins in very cold condition)
(Volkswagen ID.4: 35 mins in ideal condition. 38 mins in very cold condition)
(Ford Mach-E: 43 mins in ideal condition)
(Tesla Model Y: 36 mins in ideal condition)
Toyota 10 to 90 % : 88 minutes
Toyota 0 to 80 % : 62 minutes
Toyota 0 to 90 % : 92 minutes
So Toyota just broke the world record for the SLOWEST charging EV ever.
Dont worry, Scotty Kilmer will find something to defend and praise this Toyota badged Subaru
Hopfully this happen just only a prototype car.
Watch the Out of spec Vegas trip part 11.
The Hyundai wasn't doing so well.
That's the relevant numbers, I think the 10 to 80% number is an important number, the test should emphasize this number.
Cadillac CTS4 coupe,
Very good review. The slow charging would be a deal-killer for us. We graduated from a Bolt (that we loved) to an Ioniq 5 so that we can do road trips a couple times per year. The bZ4x just wouldn't work for us. I understand that Toyota is concerned about longevity, but most charging is still done on an L2.
I have to say, it charges normally with a Level 2 charger maybe 30 min to get to 80% which is normal for most vehicles now after 80% you see a large decline in kw output/input from 40 kw per second to 12 kw per second. Is it a safety mechanism for the battery; probably but I rather have a full charge than just 80% I have the Limited AWD so far its great 👍
I’m very surprised that Toyota missed the boat with EVs. I just can’t understand why they don’t get.
wasted time with hydrogen and hybrids
Because they realy want to sell hybrids where the margins Are bigger
Because they are waiting to see how the real future will be.
They hitched their wagon to hydrogen a long time ago. Time will tell but I thinks the odds and momentum is against them now,
Great video! Can you also check whether the car "rapidgates" like the Leaf? I wouldn't be surprised if it gets even worse on the 2nd or 3rd charge on a road trip.
Oh I want to know this too! That would be super bad for me!
Hey Kyle, great video and as I had thought, this CC is not very good by today's standards. 3-5 years ago, sure this would have cut it, but not now. Any info on the Panasonic experience, is it safe to say it's 50% better in a similar test? Maybe 10-80% would be closer to competition, in the 30-40 minute range?
Wow. I think my Niro with 2019 technology and a 70kw peak beats that curve
Yup. It barely beats Bolt EV curve 😒
Great video! Not all EVs are built equal in terms of charging, another real life example of it! 🔌⚡🚘
I would like to see how the FWD with Panasonic battery performs in the fast charging sections. I believe the Euro specs claims 0 - 80% in 30 mins, and I believe they use Panasonic battery on both FWD and AWD models.
Who drives it down to 0 %? 😱
@@abraxastulammo9940 TH-camrs that need to make EV content
@@abraxastulammo9940 Experts who know what they're doing. It'll take me awhile to get there, but I will.
The slow charging above 80% means the real-life range is 170-180 miles (most people's range anxiety will kick in well before low single digits of state-of-charge.) So it's a daily driver, but not a car you can take even a modest road trip in conveniently.
You will NOT get 170 miles out of this car even with a full battery.
The usable energy of the battery is too small.
@@Vxvx22 Absolutely agree, Vx. I used the EPA rated range for illustration...
When you can drive 2 hours on the Interstate in cold weather using less than 80% battery, range is not a problem. But, people who won't shake the gas tank mentality for batteries will have a problem. Charging more often, but faster, in the sweet spot of the charging curve is the modern strategy.
@@StevenHoagland Truth. Some people can't be helped.
If the price ends up being right on the used market, I'd consider buying one of these in a few years. I'd do most of my charging on L2 anyway so I'd rather have the long term reliability of the batteries.
These would be a good step up for people driving bolts.
The AWD one charges slower because it has a different battery. PLEASE TEST THE FRONT WHEEL DRIVE ONE.
Great video. Is there a possibility that there was something wrong with that specific charger that day? Have their been any other documented cases of it doing this? I have an order in for the Solterra and this is kinda alarming for that, even though 99% of my driving will just be within my "bubble".
I really hope he makes this video and/or answers this question you asked
Have you carried out a similar test on the solterra which has AWD?
i think its interesting to try hard to preserve the battery as much as possible i get what toyota is doing
Yes, putting a great 2017 charging curve on a 2022/3 vehicle. Good work Toyota. /sarcasm
@@StephenShawCanada ik lol maybe by 2023 they will change it
Well, that was eye-opening.
I’ve always felt Toyota takes an overt conservative approach to all of their designs. Look at the mpg’s of their non hybrid stuff. Non if it is tuned for efficiency but rather tuned for longevity
thats why I would buy Toyota when my 02 tundra still drives like new
I'm a former Toyota fanboy...now I'm team Tesla. I really wanted to like the bZ4x. In fact, I kind of wanted to replace my Lexus RX450h with the RZ450e. But hell no! Not if it charges this bad, has this awful of range, no preconditioning, no route planning, no plug and charge. Ugh! I put 30k miles on my Model Y last year. No way I could do that on the bZ4x. And if I'm getting a city only EV, I'd get a Leaf. The bZ4x fails as a city EV (due to price) and a road trip EV (due to specs).
👏👏👏👏
Lexus Press Release says the Lexus RZ450e comes with a the 71.4 kWh battery pack, so it should do better (up to 150 kW charging, probably). It'll be faster too, with 150 kW front motor as well as the 80 kW rear. It looks like Lexus is trying to do better so maybe they'll sort out some of those other niggles too.
A lot of good info. I agree with your comment about slow charging curve. I’d call it a turtle charging curve. Maybe Toyota is really concerned about the battery overheating and starting a fire?? Would be interesting to see a Level 2 (home charging) charging curve. Of course, where can one really road trip in Japan? Seems to me Toyota is trying to just put an EV in the marketplace to save face. Maybe after your review, they’ll do a charging update??
Kyle,
Two questions. Has Toyota fixed this charging problem yet? Have you also tested the Subaru Solterra or do you know if Solterra has the same problem? Thanks for your excellent reviews.
I think they should have put the Panasonic in the awd. I did order the awd as it will be used primarily going into our cabin (rough beat up road) and husbands work vehicle, which we do get big dumps of snow. It will be charged up using solar at cabin and his work generates their own electricity, they have block heater plugs available and two chargepoint station, so after a 12 hour shift it should be good to go again, lol. Guess we’re taking our 2017 model s on road trips.
I heard the lexus RZ 450e that has AWD actually uses the panasonoic battery, if you wanted to take a look at that
OMG. This is slower than our Chevy Bolt EUV that maxes out at 55 kw. We did a road trip with the EUV from Boulder, CO to Seattle and back and it was OK but not great. We quickly learned to pull in to the next charging session as close to 0 SOC to make the best use of our time. Agree completely with the assessment of this vehicle
I hope you will do a similar test of the FWD bZ4X models with the Panasonic battery. Any plans to do so?
Toyota didn't put any effort into this and the Lexus version of it. Case in point, go looked at Kia and Hyundai. Those two are well thought out EVs
Yes. Another awesome video. So, a few things. A couple of quick statements and then some questions.
Statements:
1. I remember reading somewhere that Toyota was actually targeting local driving and not road trippers. This is why I am staying away.
2. I'm keeping my eye on the Fiske Ocean (thinking of putting a hold on an Ultra).
3. The Fisker Ocean is going to use CATL batteries.
Questions:
1. Is the CATL the issue with the long charging?
2. Could the Fisker Ocean suffer the same charging demon?
3. If the CATL batteries aren't the issue, is it Toyota's over conservativeness?
Everyone, forgive me, this is my first venture into EVs. I'm looking to replace my 2010 Accord within the year and trying to decide. Heck, I even have a spreadsheet to try and figure out what one to get. My top 4 are Fisker Ocean, Genesis eGV70, Hyundai Ioniq 5, and Kia EV6 (in that order). Number 2 probably won't happen unless I win the lottery...LOL🤣
Well, thanks again for a great video, and hopefully Henrick Fisker will let you Guys test the Ocean Ultra!!!
P.S. Loved the towing video between the Rivian R1T and the Ford King Ranch!
So, because it's using the same platform, will the Solterra have the same issue? I'd like to get one myself but if this is the charging on level 3, then this is a dealbreaker for me, especially at the asking price.
I feel like it might be beneficial to do this test again, but make sure that you set the vehicle to max charge. Because you set a max charge of like 60% the interruption could skew the test results.
One possiility about getting better charging speed, would be that Toyota after getting more data will improve the charging speed?
Note: I rememer that some youtubers noticed that Tesla improved the charging speed after the release of a new model
(or was doing the opposite when the car was getting older...)
Too early to ve worrried. Let's test a production model.
Thanks for the video. It’s an eye-opener. I’ve been waiting to find out if the BZ4X is the EV for me but you just convinced me that it’s a big NO. I’m newly retired and aiming on doing road trips i.e. cross country from Calif but this will not do it for me. My next interest: the Lexus RX 350h but waiting for reviews on it. Sadly, I might still stick with an ICE/hybrid until they have made the EVs more bearable when it comes to charging.
Going to test the 71.4kWh panasonic battery as well? European buyer wants to know :)
We need to get the charging curve for the panasonic version of the BZ4X...
The car does warm the battery when navigated to charging station? What is the station temperature?
2:45 YES they do
Toyota Corollas are known for getting 500 000 mile out of a car (ICE) if you do regular maintenance.
So if they can get 2% to 5% degradation on the battery instead of 10% that means a lot if your expecting your car
to last 500 000 mile. Now if you have a car that is going to fall apart at 100 000 to 150 000 miles then, well charge as
hard as you want.
It is not a Corolla, not a valid comparison, it's a re-badged Subaru with input from Geely (Chinese EV auto maker who own Subaru). The most important part of an EV is the battery; in today's market, that charging curve is bad. And, no one has any idea how long the chassis will last, we all need to wait 20 years. If YOU like the car, buy it.
Lol. John, I think you hit the nail on the head. Toyota owners wants the car to last forever therefore owning this EV will surely is a sound investments. Remember: TCO: total cost of ownership over 10/15/20 years. Lots of $$$ save.
Yikes! This makes me feel better about my Bolt purchased even knowing it's maxed at 55 Kw. I only take 1-2 roadtrips per year far enough that we will need to charge. And even after 10% battery degradation, the bolt's range will still be farther than a new Bz4x
Can you confirm if the AWD CATL battery is LFP chemistry?
Could this be updated through a software update in the future or is it hardware?
LOL "Driven across the country in a Bolt." I was going to drive my Bolt from Ann Arbor, MI to Lexington, KY but couldn't do it without more than doubling my trip time.
Would like to see if the FWD with the 150 kW charging has a better curve.
Hey Kyle, what are the chances Toyota improves this charging curve via software update after they collect more data? Or would the battery just not be capable of better? Even if they held the 80s till like 35-40% before starting the downhill that would be a huge difference. Definitely no reason for the 90s range to be so low though. I mean at least 10-15kw needs to be maintained there.
This is a very early model..maybe even pre-production. Plebty if time for updates. Not worried.
Other reviewers noticed the range estimates were not correct as well. Toyota's estimated 0-60 times were also wrong. This review is of a pre-productuon model
Once these cars are avaiable for delivery time will tell.
Nope. They will tell there buyers to buy the hybrid or wait for the next refresh
i would like to see your opinion in 5 years about ioniq 5 / ev6 with 800v of charging does to batteries.
Every different battery chemistry has a different charge acceptance rate, so it is not unusual for one type to charge faster than the other. Charging rates also effect battery lifetime cycles, so there can be many reasons for allowing different rates.
Very true, but if Toyota is going to pick a battery with such a terrible rate then they should at least sell it for cheap. This costs way more than a Bolt!
@@mattherndon9317 Somewhere in Japan, in a conference room filled with executives, someone will be trying to say "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time." Like the gas pumps that play loud music and advertise commercials while you're doing a conventional fillup. (Ugh)
as for NMC/NCA batteries the optimal range of SoC is between 10%-80%. not sure about LFPs
The only people that will buy this EV is a dedicated Toyota fan. I was one of those dedicated fans. I owned 3 Toyota Priuses and loved them. My last Prius was the Prime which was a plug in and had a 19 mile range. They were solid cars with little to no mechanical issues. Very slow 0-60 and the Toyota native software was terrible. Then I saw 👀 a TH-cam video about a Tesla Model 3 and I became obsessed! They cost a lot more than the Prius Prime but after a year of contemplation I pulled the trigger and traded the Prius Prime for a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR and have never looked back. It like night and day between these two cars and I see similarities in this new Toyota car and my old Prius Prime. Solid, well built cars but fall short of the competition. This car with a 50K dollar price point? No way!
Pay a little more and get a Tesla. I was a Toyota Prius Fan Boy, but now I am all in on Tesla.
Kyle, to what percentage does Toyota suggest you charge this vehicle to, on a daily basis?
the panasonic version is the one to get if for any reason you have to have this (the RZ 450e also have the panasonic battery)
If the CATL battery is LFP chemistry i would prefer that just for the insane cycle life.
Great video. If I’m not based on what you paid for charging it cost .08 cents per mile to charge the car with 222 miles of range.
I’m new to EV charging… would it be faster to do the 80-20 charge? Meaning it drops so bad the lower the battery goes, would it make sense not to do that and then only charge to 80? Would we see a faster charging curve? Take short drives and DC Charge… and move on to the next??? Thoughts??
Yup, you should never really DC fast charge past 80% unless you can't make it to the next charger with given range. Most new EVs have more than enough range below 80% to get from charger to charger. With the possible exception of areas like Montana, N Dakota, etc.
Even faster to get to the charger with 5-10% if you know you'll make it. Stopping more often and charging at lower state of charge is quicker than stopping less and waiting for higher state of charge which many people may not figure.
No one should charge this beyond 80%, but even its 0-80 is... not good. I can't think of any current generation EV that's slower.
Can you evaluate the fwd charging performance?
This is for the AWD at 100Kw. Do have some info for the FWD at 150Kw??? BZ4X test
I would very much like to see a test of the 2WD Panasonic version. I have a reservation on that car.
Today I can confirm that in Sweden we get the Panasonic cells on both 2WD and AWD. I heard it would apply to all EU/Europe but don't take my word for it. I only know for sure what my Swedish reseller writes.
Perhaps you have a pre-production model with updates coming.
It is. They should wait for the real deal.
The 0-80 time is completely consistent with the specs given to the press though.
I wonder if the CATL battery is LFP chemistry. LFP has lower charge rates to prevent overheating. Even if liquid cooled they can't take as high C rates as NMC chemistries. The trade off of course is that the battery cycle life is 2-4x that of NMC and should easily hit 700,000 miles before reaching 80% capacity. And there is far less degradation concern using 100% of the battery capacity.
If so, this looks like a great vehicle for someone that has lvl 2 charging at home or work. It would be ok for shorter road trips if you only need to DC charge to 60% once or twice.
Not true. Byd LFP charges fast.. 45 kw at 95% (Byd Tang) 100 kwh all the way up to 80%. I prefer flat charging curves like that over the typical NMC/NCA chemistries.
CATL LFP cells in Tesla are also very good 170 kw up to 30%.
LFP cells can take 3C (per spec) with appropriate cooling (Toyota might lack that).
Toyota are intentionally handicaping the car through conservative specs. There are high mobility electrolytes available to easily do 3C in all types of chemistries, especially on very resilient low internal resistance LFP batteries. The bz4x at 210 kw up to 50%, or even 120 kw (1.5C) - would eat the competition alive, but Toyota wants to sell just 2-5% at most hence the awful charging rate. Unfortunately.
I know you have conducted an actual test yet however how much faster would be 150w charging on 2wd? Can I expect 80% in 45 mins?
please test range and battery spec on this bz the euro tester say toyota is lying. Is it true???
I think this is a Toyota USA problem. Every thing bad things commented on this channel are not missing in Europe. On youtube you will be having viewers from around The world.
Sheesh, I am glad I went for the Ioniq 5 rather than waiting for this thing.
This car is DOA when comparing to rival cars. Absolutely no reason to buy this car.
Not really, people buy Toyotas because they want the reliability. And people buy the cars because they like the way they drive or the way they look. Vast majority of people are not going to even know that there's an issue with charging. Also this vehicle really does not cross shop at all with the ionic 5 and ev6. Not if you actually want an SUV that has ground clearance. This is really the only affordable electric SUV that has real ground clearance. It's 8.1 in of clearance. None of the others sold have anywhere near that.
And generally speaking once inside that brand they're not going to leave unless they're extremely motivated to do so.
I want to see how the Panasonic battery does with the front wheel drive model.
I suspect they sell more front-wheel drive RAV4s than all wheel drive. I just wonder why in the hell they had to use two different battery suppliers at all? Why? They're both almost the same capacity. Maybe Panasonic just could not provide enough batteries and so they had to find a secondary supplier. Panasonic has been the supplier for all of their hybrid batteries since 1997. They have a very tight relationship with them.
Why not? Its a Toyota, its simple, Its a Toyota. Reason enough. That its not better or longer lasting or cheaper than others does not count. They do not look around. They see its a Toyota, they buy it.
@@kens97sto171 👍
@@kens97sto171 Being reliable is useless if it's unusable to start with. Nobody's going to want to drive this nonsense 10 years.
@@syenosis
What is your definition of unusable? People drive locally around their own City 99.9% of the time. Charging it home. People take road trips once a year maybe every other year. Is that really going to dissuade you from buying a car if it fits all of your needs in every other way? Probably not. And it has one thing that the others do not. Ground clearance. And it's a Toyota. I want to see how the Panasonic battery charges. I would have gotten the front wheel drive model anyway. There's no place you can go with front-wheel drive if you know how to drive. And with 8 inches of ground clearance that'll clear almost anything you would want to go on a light trail or fire road. I mean I've driven miatas off road. You just know have to know what to do and where to put the tires
It sort of makes sense to me. Toyota buyers are loyal to Toyota, that's what they will buy again and again. So some will buy this car, see that it sucks, word will spread and hence Toyota can ensure their future customers will buy their gas based cars instead. I don't think this is Toyota being conservative, I think it's them trying to protect their gas vehicle business for the coming decade.
Slowest charging?
What about the Chevy Bolt?
my bz4x Limited only goes up to 40 kw even though I am using a charge that is much faster (350 kw charger). I plug it in when it is 20% or 30% low battery and it is only charging at 37kw... This is on a normal temperature day too.
Well, for me it's simple, if they are doing this for longevity and you don't need fast charging, it will be great, if you need the car to do long trips in a reasonable time, well, get an electrified ICE (including synthetic fuels usage) or a fuel cell hybrid. For me, they're smart, they can't predict the future, so they have to be ready for everything. Greetings from Costa Rica
Please test the front wheel only drive battery charging curve for us.
Do you think Toyota is throttling back their charging to evaluate and run statistics? Maybe its something that they plan to improve with a software update?
Ahh yes the old beta test on the user trick. Makes sense now. If it doesn’t do OTA then the firmware will need to be updated at the next stealership service, if they can remember to do it
@@theairstig9164 From what I’ve read it suppose to have OTA.
Driving to Orlando from Atlanta. First stop to charge. 82kw starting out and fell off to 30kw at 78% and just kept dropping. This will be painful
Will the 70 mph range test be happening on the BZ4X soon?
Wow. Thinking about getting one. Just to travel to work from upstate ny to nyc.
Does EVgo still charge by the minute? They might have hit the jackpot with Toyota picking up the tab for the world's slowest charging EV.
The ones around me do :( But so does the EA near me. I think my state might need to get on them for that.
What about in the context of normal use? I commute. I come home. I plug into a level 2. It charges to 100% by the morning.
Does it do this? If so. It is fine. Electric vehicles appeal to commuters, not to long range drivers.
but could they fix the charge curve via update or no
Hi I have a bx4x a I just came back from La,I live in Sf and it took me 24 hours, the waiting in line to charge, 2 hours for only 70% or it will take for ever, and not using heater to conserve energy, it was a nightmare
I don't know what happened, but TH-cam decided to put a commercial every 2.5 minutes in this video... Good lord... There was even a commercial during the Magna commercial.
I just watched a Solterra take an hour to go from 33% to 74%. I'm not judging car choices, but can you please use the open 50kw chargers if you have these cars? There was a massive pileup waiting because they clogged the 350kws
Prismatic LFP cells do not like to be charged quickly, but they will last forever if you take care of them. LFP is not great for road tripping, but would be great as a city car or short distance commuter for someone who charges in their garage or at work.
The % charging curve, if it's that critical the why can't the on board system regulate the % MIN. MAX. ??
Is this something that Toyota can improve on via an OTA?
It'll be interesting to see how much better the Panasonic battery is.
I suspect if you looked at the sales numbers far more front-wheel drive cars are sold and then all-wheel drive. This thing is never going to be used to go rock crawling and front-wheel drive can get you pretty much anywhere you would want to go on a dirt path or gravel or fire roads. The main question for me is why did they bother with two different battery pack manufacturers at all. What is the point of that? Especially two different batteries with such radically different charging profiles. Makes absolutely no sense unless Panasonic flatly told them that they cannot produce enough battery packs to fulfill orders. Maybe they had to find a secondary supplier for that reason alone.
What do you think about longevity of battery life and the related to it residual price of the car after 3 years? Slower charge - longer battery life.
Toyota did it with purpose. Don’t you think so? :)
Was considering this as a second vehicle to supplement our Model Y. The fact that the range is ~220 miles, it has no frunk and fast charging is slow makes it a no-go for us. If we need to take a road trip, we take the Model Y. Even with the slower charging, I would have hoped for at least 300 miles of range (180-240 if you have a family limit set to 60-80) and some better storage.
By a EV6/Ionia 5, MME or Rivian and you will have fast charging, some frunk and decent build.
Buy the Lucid. Solution solved.
Ioniq 5 beats every aspect of this strange car..
Um. Buy another Y. Everything else is inferior.
@@ohumeid
Except for actual ground clearance. None of the other SUVs in this class have any decent actual ground clearance. I believe the Toyota has 8.1 in. The mach e has less ground clearance than an actual mustang. And I believe all the others are closer to 5 in of ground clearance. For some people that would be a big deal
How much when WE replace new battery? That we need to known it.
I wonder what the charge rate is on level 2 charger above 90%
I understand the conservativeness to prevent battery degradation and that is not an issue with daily use. But there should be an option to allow charging at higher speed if it needs to go on a road trip.
Does it have thermal battery management?
All the charging stations will be made to have great scenery so you can enjoy it after hours there
Hey do you guys know if the Solterra will suffer from the same curve as it’s a pretty darn similar car to the bz4x
It is exactly the same. The bz4x isn't made by Toyota. It is a badge engineered Subaru Solterra.
Theoretically, can’t Toyota (Buzzforks) & Subaru (Solterra) release a software update to improve the charging curve?