The 94% zebra is ONLY valid if you are viewing the raw S-Log3 image- once you apply a LUT your zebras should be set to 99 or 100% - and still you will likely have image data to recover at the very extremes (assuming you just went over the 100%). Ideally the Zebras should be applied by the camera before the LUT -and then the 94% would be correct - but the FX30 applies the LUT first before the zebras. Confusing I know!
Really interesting point. Gamma Display Assist isn't technically "applying" anything (it's more of a screen overlay, like Zebras), so given how LUTs can be baked into an image, output over HDMI, etc. with the Cine models, maybe that describes the difference vs. Gamma Display Assist. Wonder if that varies camera to camera as well.
@@andreaseinzmann6277 It's not in a subtle but important distinction. Luts change the exposure value the camera is reading. So if you set your zebras to 94 for clipping when you turn on the Lut that value will no longer will be 94. Where as Gamma assist doesn't effect the exposure reading the cameras is seeing.
Its nice that noise floor is mentioned. Just to add exposure tips: For outdoor exposure, you dont need to overexpose because you your image wont live on the noise floor, which is at around 10IRE before rec709 conversion. So you just need to expose your subject at 41 IRE. Just like with the tip on preventing the clipping of highlights, you just need to set Zebra at 41 but instead use the standard range +-1 option. To be sure you can set it at 42. This is another tip, but you need a Variable ND Filter to use this tip. This may seem counter-intuitive, but for outdoors, its actually better to use your 2nd native ISO as it actually holds more dynamic range on the highlights. Unfortunately you need to use ND filter because obviously the highlights will be clipped with no ND filter on. Conversely, its better to use the lower native ISO on indoors as the lower native ISO actually holds better dynamic range on the shadows. The downside with that is you will need to bring more lights. Also FYI: raising ISO does not actually raise exposure. The camera sensor wont actually receive more light, rather it digitally amplifies the light that it received, does raising the noise floor. Raising ISO should only be the last resort, such as shooting in an event or run n gun shoot that the schedule is so compact that you wont have time to setup lights. For shoots that you can setup lights, you should use native ISO, and again, at least expose your subject at 41 IRE and 51 IRE for subjects with lighter skin tones. You would greatly benefit with the overexposure tips in indoors since its more than likely that your image will sit on the noise floor, but always remember that you should raise your exposure through bumping up your aperture, or by adding in more light. Upping ISO should only be the last resort.
Lots of good points here. I tend to use other methods more given run-and-gun shooting vs. controlled set situations, but the grey card 41% IRE tip is another solid measure of exposure.
@@Dr.k1llermo Just sharing on what I've learned on set :D. Its fun sharing those learnings, and sometimes there are replies with new information so it can also be beneficial to me ^_^
Think they got removed in firmware 2.0+, but you would just select S-Log3 by using the Log Shooting Setting, or you could take one of the other PPs and recreate it (S-Log3, and S-Gamut3.Cine).
When I first tried shooting Slog3 I set MM at 0.0- +0.7 range and the footage came out nasty, super noisy. So in my experience, yes we need to over exposed in Slog3, my to go is +1.7 - +2.0
Multimeter max +2 is a commonly repeated myth. Zebra + histogram are much better in camera exposure tools. It all depends of lighting conditions. I often shoot with mm +2 blinking which doesn't mean image is overexposed.
There is a topic that I have not been able to find on YT about Slog-3 and I see that when you go to the Slog settings, in the "detail" part it has a value of -7. Would the image quality improve if I set a value close to 0? like -2 or -3?
All depends on your preference for a sharp image. Sharpening is trivial to add in post (and I often don't), but something you can't as easily remove, which is why I leave and prefer the -7 default.
hi, i have Soyn a7 IV, wanna shot Slog3. need Advise. the question is which Zebra setting would be best for face and rest ( 94+ probably?) and which freeluts .. thx
Exposing for skintones w/ zebras will vary, but Sony recommends ~52. Lots of options for LUTs - check out my examples at 6:18. Sony's s709 LUT is a great free option.
Thanks a lot! I now also have the A7r V (before I had GH5) but it seems like when in PP8 my zebras only give me signals when set to 80 or less? Not 90 and above? What am I missing? Thanks for a great tutorial
No problem, are you using one of the custom zebra settings - specifically C2 - or one of the pre-defined ones? Check around the 3:45 mark where I talk about how I set things up.
@@andrewsaraceniThank you for your promt answer . My bad, I was trying to show the stripes by adjusting shutter speed below 1/40 which is not possible. When I use iso instead it’s working fine 😊
Great tips! The only thing I would challenge you on is the ISO's. For static shots, you'll definitely want to optimize for one of the base ISO's. But when in a dynamic lighting environment (run and gun, passing clouds), I've found it's wayyyyyy easier to keep it in Auto ISO and have a consistent exposure compensation of +1.3 dialed in. Sony does a great job with AE so you don't get big jumps like you find with other brands (lookin' right at you Fuji!). It's very difficult to even out exposure in post. I use CineMatch for R709 conversion. It has some great tools built-in to get perfect exposure for skin tones and/or grey card. Plus if you are shooting with multiple camera brands, you convert it all to SLOG3 and get near perfect match colors.
@@zweiche If there is a loss of dynamic range, it's not much. Unless you are producing a feature film or paid work, getting a proper exposure is more valuable than a little bit of noise in the footage.
Thanks! Yeah I've seen Auto ISO work well in certain situations, but not in others. The "outside of base ISO" scenarios also really depends on the camera. e.g. a7R V ISO 2000 (below high base of 2500) looks better generally than 10000 (below high of 12800) on the a7S III/FX3 given the sensor, MP count, etc. And that's good to hear re: CineMatch (also heard good things, but haven't tried it) - definitely an option if you're matching colors and log flavors from different camera makes/models.
I am using Sony A7 IV, when I set SLOG to 3 in my camera the exposure does not become 2 + unless I set the ISO to auto in my camera, can you tell me the settings that how should I set my camera so that I can use slog better
All depends on the exposure of your scene. You may need to change aperture and shutter speed as well to account for that. I do offer 1-on-1 consultations if you need help with that sort of thing.
@@chromiqa So in each of those situations, I was manually white balancing to push things to be warmer as needed. Then it's a question of how you want to match the "skin tone line" in your vector scopes, or be slightly over (magenta) or under (green) and use tint to compensate.
Thanks - Solid video bringing in a lot of different aspects to consider. Just subscribed. Just to be clear, do you recommend leaving the ISO LOCKED on either the higher or lower base ISO and using aperture as the only real level for exposure control. i.e. (shooting 4k / 60fps using PPT9 on my A1) shutter locked at 1/125, ISO locked at either 800 or 4000 and using aperture or aperture + ND to nail exposure?. I have been aware of the base ISO's but haven't been locking down on them, often shooting at 200 etc if the light allowed.
Thanks Jeffrey! In most cases, I'll go with the low/high base ISO and use aperture, shutter speed, etc. to help compensate. I will occasionally break this rule if needed (to get a shot in a pinch), but only within certain bounds, and still avoiding any of the ISOs well above either of the base values.
@@andrewsaraceni so what is your opinion on going BELOW the low base ISO if the scene is bright and shooting wide open aperture (I e. Shooting 200 in PP9). Does it compromise noise performance? I'm general for stills we avoid shooting below the base ISO of 100 as it is a "fake ISO" and you lose highlights signal to noise headroom.
@@JeffreyJDavis If you expose correctly, I think you're still able to get clean footage in the extended ISO ranges. Testing has shown the tradeoffs/differences to be minimal there, within a reasonable deviation from the base ISOs.
Hi Andrew. Merry Christmas. I am a new subscriber. I have just bought a Sony a7R 5. I am primarily a photographer but looking to start doing a bit more video. Looking forward to learning lots from your channel.
Hi, i have question, if I record a clip in s-log-3, the size of the clip is bigger and more difficult to edit in post-production than a normal clip? thank u
The size of the clip would be the same as any other PP. It'll be more dependent on the codec you use (XAVC S vs. HS vs. S-I), resolution and frame rate, 8-bit 4:2:0 vs. 10-bit 4:2:2, etc.
would love to see a video on slog 3 for darker area's such as interiors or night time/low light. my video's always look way too dark or noisy no matter what I do D: Great video nonetheless! definitely gonna try these out! :D
Thanks! These tips hold up for dark/dimly lit scenes as well. I have some videos on my channel in S-Log3 shooting in similar conditions, e.g. th-cam.com/video/BN9idN64IUY/w-d-xo.html
Not a big deal if you're a few hundred kelvin off, but definitely makes a difference if you're thousands away. I usually start with daylight (5600K) as a default, and adjust from there, but it depends on the situation.
@@andrewsaraceni Yea I have had issues with it and couldn't figure out a reference point to start from. Lots of people with different opinions on it. AWB at the scene and Locking it seems to be a popular one. Also the gamma display assist is something i wasnt aware of. Great info!
Hi,thanks for the video... One thing, though... I don't get what are you overexposing for 2 stops? I mean, that multimeter measures overall brightness of the image, so what is overexposed, especially when you talk about 94% zebras with rec709 (gamma assist) turned on, which isn't overexposed... Maybe a tad under, since I like my whites around 96%.
No problem, it's mainly "overexposing" with respect to how the MM would measure normal exposure, say with an in-camera color PP. You'd be lifting your image exposure in-camera when shooting log for the benefit of added detail/less noise in the shadows, when bringing it back to a Rec. 709 graded look in post.
@@andrewsaraceni seems like using the MM would be best if using it with a grey card, rather than averaging out all the areas of the screen, no? There's an infinite number of combinations of light and dark and midtones otherwise, and I the MultiMeter doesn't know what I care about in the scene...
@@NationalCORE1 In a controlled shoot with center/spot metering with MM, or just zebras set to the gray card, that works fine. But in run and gun situations where you cant dial in everything precisely or have time to use a gray card, MM in multi mode works surprisingly well, once you get comfortable with it.
The 94% zebra is ONLY valid if you are viewing the raw S-Log3 image- once you apply a LUT your zebras should be set to 99 or 100% - and still you will likely have image data to recover at the very extremes (assuming you just went over the 100%). Ideally the Zebras should be applied by the camera before the LUT -and then the 94% would be correct - but the FX30 applies the LUT first before the zebras. Confusing I know!
whats the case if i dont use luts but display gamma assistant on in camera?
Really interesting point. Gamma Display Assist isn't technically "applying" anything (it's more of a screen overlay, like Zebras), so given how LUTs can be baked into an image, output over HDMI, etc. with the Cine models, maybe that describes the difference vs. Gamma Display Assist. Wonder if that varies camera to camera as well.
Using display gamma assistant is using a LUT - like REC709. Right?
@@andreaseinzmann6277 It's not in a subtle but important distinction. Luts change the exposure value the camera is reading. So if you set your zebras to 94 for clipping when you turn on the Lut that value will no longer will be 94. Where as Gamma assist doesn't effect the exposure reading the cameras is seeing.
Its nice that noise floor is mentioned. Just to add exposure tips: For outdoor exposure, you dont need to overexpose because you your image wont live on the noise floor, which is at around 10IRE before rec709 conversion. So you just need to expose your subject at 41 IRE. Just like with the tip on preventing the clipping of highlights, you just need to set Zebra at 41 but instead use the standard range +-1 option. To be sure you can set it at 42. This is another tip, but you need a Variable ND Filter to use this tip. This may seem counter-intuitive, but for outdoors, its actually better to use your 2nd native ISO as it actually holds more dynamic range on the highlights. Unfortunately you need to use ND filter because obviously the highlights will be clipped with no ND filter on. Conversely, its better to use the lower native ISO on indoors as the lower native ISO actually holds better dynamic range on the shadows. The downside with that is you will need to bring more lights. Also FYI: raising ISO does not actually raise exposure. The camera sensor wont actually receive more light, rather it digitally amplifies the light that it received, does raising the noise floor. Raising ISO should only be the last resort, such as shooting in an event or run n gun shoot that the schedule is so compact that you wont have time to setup lights. For shoots that you can setup lights, you should use native ISO, and again, at least expose your subject at 41 IRE and 51 IRE for subjects with lighter skin tones. You would greatly benefit with the overexposure tips in indoors since its more than likely that your image will sit on the noise floor, but always remember that you should raise your exposure through bumping up your aperture, or by adding in more light. Upping ISO should only be the last resort.
Lots of good points here. I tend to use other methods more given run-and-gun shooting vs. controlled set situations, but the grey card 41% IRE tip is another solid measure of exposure.
This dude commenting the same on every video on youtube about exposure 😂😂
@@Dr.k1llermo Just sharing on what I've learned on set :D. Its fun sharing those learnings, and sometimes there are replies with new information so it can also be beneficial to me ^_^
Great show !! Many tutorials out there gets me more confused than ever after watching … but yours , boom !!! Straight up !! Thank you !!
Thanks Josh, glad to hear it helped you!
My Sony FX3 is on the latest firmware update 5.0 and I don’t have PP8, any tips on how to
get it?
Think they got removed in firmware 2.0+, but you would just select S-Log3 by using the Log Shooting Setting, or you could take one of the other PPs and recreate it (S-Log3, and S-Gamut3.Cine).
I keep seeing TH-camrs saying you don’t need to overexpose Slog 3 now, but guy are saying there is still yes?
If you want to reduce noise in the shadows, it's still the way to go. Not to say you can't get clean shots at 0.0 EV, but it's a tradeoff.
When I first tried shooting Slog3 I set MM at 0.0- +0.7 range and the footage came out nasty, super noisy. So in my experience, yes we need to over exposed in Slog3, my to go is +1.7 - +2.0
Multimeter max +2 is a commonly repeated myth. Zebra + histogram are much better in camera exposure tools. It all depends of lighting conditions. I often shoot with mm +2 blinking which doesn't mean image is overexposed.
It all depends on what MM settings you're using, and how you're using it. It's a starting point, not a hard rule. Zebras are definitely useful though.
There is a topic that I have not been able to find on YT about Slog-3 and I see that when you go to the Slog settings, in the "detail" part it has a value of -7. Would the image quality improve if I set a value close to 0? like -2 or -3?
All depends on your preference for a sharp image. Sharpening is trivial to add in post (and I often don't), but something you can't as easily remove, which is why I leave and prefer the -7 default.
Great tutorial and thank you for the simple workflow. Merry Christmas!
No problem Neil, Merry Christmas!
Great, succint video! Just curious, what ND filter are you using for these shots in this video?
Thanks! I'm using the Peter McKinnon Variable ND filters, the 2-5 and 6-9 stops.
hi, i have Soyn a7 IV, wanna shot Slog3. need Advise. the question is which Zebra setting would be best for face and rest ( 94+ probably?) and which freeluts .. thx
Exposing for skintones w/ zebras will vary, but Sony recommends ~52. Lots of options for LUTs - check out my examples at 6:18. Sony's s709 LUT is a great free option.
Thanks a lot! I now also have the A7r V (before I had GH5) but it seems like when in PP8 my zebras only give me signals when set to 80 or less? Not 90 and above? What am I missing? Thanks for a great tutorial
No problem, are you using one of the custom zebra settings - specifically C2 - or one of the pre-defined ones? Check around the 3:45 mark where I talk about how I set things up.
@@andrewsaraceniThank you for your promt answer . My bad, I was trying to show the stripes by adjusting shutter speed below 1/40 which is not possible. When I use iso instead it’s working fine 😊
Great tips! The only thing I would challenge you on is the ISO's. For static shots, you'll definitely want to optimize for one of the base ISO's. But when in a dynamic lighting environment (run and gun, passing clouds), I've found it's wayyyyyy easier to keep it in Auto ISO and have a consistent exposure compensation of +1.3 dialed in. Sony does a great job with AE so you don't get big jumps like you find with other brands (lookin' right at you Fuji!). It's very difficult to even out exposure in post.
I use CineMatch for R709 conversion. It has some great tools built-in to get perfect exposure for skin tones and/or grey card. Plus if you are shooting with multiple camera brands, you convert it all to SLOG3 and get near perfect match colors.
but you loose dynamic range if you are not in base isos?
@@zweiche If there is a loss of dynamic range, it's not much. Unless you are producing a feature film or paid work, getting a proper exposure is more valuable than a little bit of noise in the footage.
Thanks! Yeah I've seen Auto ISO work well in certain situations, but not in others. The "outside of base ISO" scenarios also really depends on the camera. e.g. a7R V ISO 2000 (below high base of 2500) looks better generally than 10000 (below high of 12800) on the a7S III/FX3 given the sensor, MP count, etc.
And that's good to hear re: CineMatch (also heard good things, but haven't tried it) - definitely an option if you're matching colors and log flavors from different camera makes/models.
@@RandumbTech my concern never was noise , since i have davinci studio can work with that, problem was having less DR
May i know what auto iso parameter should it setting for the base and high? Thanks
I am using Sony A7 IV, when I set SLOG to 3 in my camera the exposure does not become 2 + unless I set the ISO to auto in my camera, can you tell me the settings that how should I set my camera so that I can use slog better
All depends on the exposure of your scene. You may need to change aperture and shutter speed as well to account for that. I do offer 1-on-1 consultations if you need help with that sort of thing.
can you please show how to get that pleasant greenish skin tone in your videos with models?
Which clips or time in the video are you talking about? It's mostly balancing out green/magenta tint with white balance.
@@andrewsaracenimodels at the beginning of the video 0:27 and at the end 8:11
@@chromiqa So in each of those situations, I was manually white balancing to push things to be warmer as needed. Then it's a question of how you want to match the "skin tone line" in your vector scopes, or be slightly over (magenta) or under (green) and use tint to compensate.
Great! where can i access the luts you used in this film?
Thanks Taylor! Depends on which one you're looking for, but they each have their own websites (or you can get s709 from Sony's site).
Thanks - Solid video bringing in a lot of different aspects to consider. Just subscribed. Just to be clear, do you recommend leaving the ISO LOCKED on either the higher or lower base ISO and using aperture as the only real level for exposure control. i.e. (shooting 4k / 60fps using PPT9 on my A1) shutter locked at 1/125, ISO locked at either 800 or 4000 and using aperture or aperture + ND to nail exposure?. I have been aware of the base ISO's but haven't been locking down on them, often shooting at 200 etc if the light allowed.
Thanks Jeffrey! In most cases, I'll go with the low/high base ISO and use aperture, shutter speed, etc. to help compensate. I will occasionally break this rule if needed (to get a shot in a pinch), but only within certain bounds, and still avoiding any of the ISOs well above either of the base values.
@@andrewsaraceni so what is your opinion on going BELOW the low base ISO if the scene is bright and shooting wide open aperture (I e. Shooting 200 in PP9). Does it compromise noise performance? I'm general for stills we avoid shooting below the base ISO of 100 as it is a "fake ISO" and you lose highlights signal to noise headroom.
@@JeffreyJDavis If you expose correctly, I think you're still able to get clean footage in the extended ISO ranges. Testing has shown the tradeoffs/differences to be minimal there, within a reasonable deviation from the base ISOs.
Hi Andrew. Merry Christmas. I am a new subscriber. I have just bought a Sony a7R 5. I am primarily a photographer but looking to start doing a bit more video. Looking forward to learning lots from your channel.
Merry Christmas Richard, and thanks for the sub! Definitely more Sony and a7R V videos on the way.
Hi, i have question, if I record a clip in s-log-3, the size of the clip is bigger and more difficult to edit in post-production than a normal clip? thank u
The size of the clip would be the same as any other PP. It'll be more dependent on the codec you use (XAVC S vs. HS vs. S-I), resolution and frame rate, 8-bit 4:2:0 vs. 10-bit 4:2:2, etc.
@@andrewsaraceni thank u so much!!
would love to see a video on slog 3 for darker area's such as interiors or night time/low light. my video's always look way too dark or noisy no matter what I do D:
Great video nonetheless! definitely gonna try these out! :D
Thanks! These tips hold up for dark/dimly lit scenes as well. I have some videos on my channel in S-Log3 shooting in similar conditions, e.g. th-cam.com/video/BN9idN64IUY/w-d-xo.html
@@andrewsaraceni Will check it out thank you! 😁🤙
How much of an impact does your white balance settings have on Slog3? Is there is a good starting point K value?
Not a big deal if you're a few hundred kelvin off, but definitely makes a difference if you're thousands away. I usually start with daylight (5600K) as a default, and adjust from there, but it depends on the situation.
@@andrewsaraceni Yea I have had issues with it and couldn't figure out a reference point to start from. Lots of people with different opinions on it. AWB at the scene and Locking it seems to be a popular one. Also the gamma display assist is something i wasnt aware of. Great info!
Hi,thanks for the video... One thing, though... I don't get what are you overexposing for 2 stops? I mean, that multimeter measures overall brightness of the image, so what is overexposed, especially when you talk about 94% zebras with rec709 (gamma assist) turned on, which isn't overexposed... Maybe a tad under, since I like my whites around 96%.
No problem, it's mainly "overexposing" with respect to how the MM would measure normal exposure, say with an in-camera color PP. You'd be lifting your image exposure in-camera when shooting log for the benefit of added detail/less noise in the shadows, when bringing it back to a Rec. 709 graded look in post.
@@andrewsaraceni seems like using the MM would be best if using it with a grey card, rather than averaging out all the areas of the screen, no? There's an infinite number of combinations of light and dark and midtones otherwise, and I the MultiMeter doesn't know what I care about in the scene...
@@NationalCORE1 In a controlled shoot with center/spot metering with MM, or just zebras set to the gray card, that works fine. But in run and gun situations where you cant dial in everything precisely or have time to use a gray card, MM in multi mode works surprisingly well, once you get comfortable with it.
great video,
Please where can we get these your conversion luts
Thanks! Which one(s)? I used and showed a few - some are free, others are paid.
Thank you very much, you helped me a lot, this is the best video
No problem, glad to hear it helped!
Thank you
No problem!
Great info clearly explained
Thanks, glad you found it helpful!
This was excellent mate.
Thanks Andy!
Brilliant
Thanks!
Thank you
No problem!
Thank you Andrew
No problem, Marc!
good stuff
Thanks!
Thanks! Really helpful🎉
Thanks so much Denny, I appreciate it!
@@andrewsaraceni You’re welcome Sir👏👏
Why indonasian rupee is so cheap😂
❤!!!
Thanks!