Wow, the fact that approach kept telling the emergency aircraft with runaway trim to slow down and even to do a side step to accomodate the plane ahead is insane
@@j134679 if I am reading your comment correctly you want the pilot to sidestep. Controlling the plane is incredibly difficult under a trim runaway. Having the pilot only change flight settings as necessary should be the standard. Since the plane moves in a 3D space any attempted movements will utilize all 3 dimensions to maximize performance and efficiency. This can create/exacerbate problems in the uncontrollable dimension.
@@dex6316 I think @ Barf was saying the same thing as you. SkyWest shouldn't have been asked to make a side step. The aircraft in front should have been told to go around. Poor coordination among departure/approach/tower.
@@KunuMcGruder In this context, it's where an aircraft is on approach to a runway and ATC (usually the tower) asks the pilot to shift to the left or right to land on a parallel runway. This is very common at some airports, like SFO, where the runways are very close to each other and it is simple to do. But it requires a reasonable amount of airmanship fairly close to the ground, and in this case, where they had flight control issues, it seems like an unreasonable amount of risk for ATC to request they take.
The ATC was horrible in this. Departure wasn't listening when he told him what was wrong, and approach almost acted like he could care less that they were having an emergency.
Agree. ATC isn’t listening, not relaying status of flight to the next controller, giving them speed restrictions and a sidestep after they setup for 22L. Pretty sad.
Did I hear correctly they told an emergency plane to land on Runway 22 left when they already have a plane landing 22 left boy that was a disaster waiting to happen lucky ATC told the emergency aircraft to switch 22 right instead
Dude what the hell? You don't put a plane in front of an emergency aircraft, let alone give them a last minute runway change. You send the damn 737 around. That said, when you're reporting an emergency, you need to translate to non-pilot English. A "flight control problem due a pitch trim runaway" would be better so that they know you may have reduced control of the plane. That said, trim runaway is no joke, and I'm betting they had their hands full. I've actually flown that plane. Back in 2019 when it was still at Compass.
ATC should know pilot English. It’s literally their job to direct pilots using such language. They should also know if it’s an emergency you give priority to the emergency and fuck everyone else.
Jeez, they should’ve had the 737 break off his approach and let the emergency aircraft pick the runway and his approach speed. Very unprofessional handling by all controllers involved.
Was ATC DEAF?? It’s bad enough to have to fight that problem and keep repeating yourself to controllers who don’t seem to be actively listening to an emergency aircraft.
I've watched enough of these now to know the quite a few controllers ask the same questions multiple times during these emergencies. Does anyone know why they can't listen and understand? I'm waiting for a pilot to tell ATC we've answered and don't ask again. Terrible.
Multiple controllers sometimes not near each other . Ground , tower , departure , approach. In major airports with traffic thats how it is. Pretty annoying during an emergency but it is what it is
They definitely should be passing that information from one controller to the next. My guess is the departure controller didn’t know the phrase “pitch trim runaway” and so the approach controller had to ask again what was going on. Important to remember that (a) controllers _usually_ aren’t pilots and don’t have deep knowledge about all aircraft systems and (b) they don’t have the benefit of subtitles to double check what their ears hear
@@AS-id7jo still, I am unsure what benefit they derive from the information they request, unless it's tower and it is used by ground emergency response
The time to learn the location of elevator pitch trim circuit breaker is way before it runs away. You need to be able to find it with closed eyes. Same with the autopilot circuit breaker.
We have memory items to kill the elevator pitch trim systems. First push and hold the AP/DISC button on the yoke, thereafter push the 2 pitch trim buttons on the pedestal. Thereafter you can go though the checklist and engage one of the pitch trim systems that is working correctly
There was a plane in front of them a 737. They have to be at or below 180 below 3000 feet. They didn't slow down immediately because they were trying to keep the aircraft under control. Remember, aviate, navigate, communicate.
![[REAL ATC] Brickyard SUFFERS TRIM RUNAWAY | CONTROL ISSUES at Atlanta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RzoEsM0L2CM/mqdefault.jpg)
Unreal. ATC made the emergency aircraft sidstep? Uh, why not have traffic go around or have them side step. Am I missing something?
Welcome to NYC airspace controllers.
Wow, the fact that approach kept telling the emergency aircraft with runaway trim to slow down and even to do a side step to accomodate the plane ahead is insane
The pilot did say negative with speed requirements though. But yes the sidestep should have been given to the plane in front.
@@j134679 if I am reading your comment correctly you want the pilot to sidestep. Controlling the plane is incredibly difficult under a trim runaway. Having the pilot only change flight settings as necessary should be the standard. Since the plane moves in a 3D space any attempted movements will utilize all 3 dimensions to maximize performance and efficiency. This can create/exacerbate problems in the uncontrollable dimension.
@@dex6316 I think @ Barf was saying the same thing as you. SkyWest shouldn't have been asked to make a side step. The aircraft in front should have been told to go around. Poor coordination among departure/approach/tower.
@@gregheyheyhey what is a side step?
Respectfully
@@KunuMcGruder In this context, it's where an aircraft is on approach to a runway and ATC (usually the tower) asks the pilot to shift to the left or right to land on a parallel runway.
This is very common at some airports, like SFO, where the runways are very close to each other and it is simple to do. But it requires a reasonable amount of airmanship fairly close to the ground, and in this case, where they had flight control issues, it seems like an unreasonable amount of risk for ATC to request they take.
They made an emergency aircraft sidestep? Jesus…. Welcome to New York!
Welcome to New Jersey you mean because they were going back to Liberty International in crappy Newark, New Jersey!
From the coms I can tell the pilots had their head in the game, it had to be absolutely hectic in the cockpit, too
The ATC was horrible in this. Departure wasn't listening when he told him what was wrong, and approach almost acted like he could care less that they were having an emergency.
If you say so. I'm not sure how you can read intent into the communications. Approach is controlling additional aircraft, not just that one.
@@buckhorncortez I'd would have been nice to hear the workload of APP. However, this was an emergency flight that should have priority.
It's "couldn't care less".
Agree. ATC isn’t listening, not relaying status of flight to the next controller, giving them speed restrictions and a sidestep after they setup for 22L. Pretty sad.
@@flyerdon3116 Yeh exactly, except it's not sad, it's ridiculous.
Love all of your videos.... but can we PLEASE Fix the position of the "R" on the opening slide?
Did I hear correctly they told an emergency plane to land on Runway 22 left when they already have a plane landing 22 left boy that was a disaster waiting to happen lucky ATC told the emergency aircraft to switch 22 right instead
Pilots were awesome. ATC, not so much.
Dude what the hell? You don't put a plane in front of an emergency aircraft, let alone give them a last minute runway change. You send the damn 737 around. That said, when you're reporting an emergency, you need to translate to non-pilot English. A "flight control problem due a pitch trim runaway" would be better so that they know you may have reduced control of the plane. That said, trim runaway is no joke, and I'm betting they had their hands full. I've actually flown that plane. Back in 2019 when it was still at Compass.
ATC should know pilot English. It’s literally their job to direct pilots using such language. They should also know if it’s an emergency you give priority to the emergency and fuck everyone else.
I’ve noticed a lot of erj175 runaway trim emergencies lately
I won’t be booking a flight on one any time soon
Jeez, they should’ve had the 737 break off his approach and let the emergency aircraft pick the runway and his approach speed. Very unprofessional handling by all controllers involved.
Thats what I was thinking but hey its new york maybe they were like fuck them delays.
Was ATC DEAF?? It’s bad enough to have to fight that problem and keep repeating yourself to controllers who don’t seem to be actively listening to an emergency aircraft.
I've watched enough of these now to know the quite a few controllers ask the same questions multiple times during these emergencies. Does anyone know why they can't listen and understand? I'm waiting for a pilot to tell ATC we've answered and don't ask again. Terrible.
Multiple controllers sometimes not near each other . Ground , tower , departure , approach. In major airports with traffic thats how it is. Pretty annoying during an emergency but it is what it is
They definitely should be passing that information from one controller to the next. My guess is the departure controller didn’t know the phrase “pitch trim runaway” and so the approach controller had to ask again what was going on. Important to remember that (a) controllers _usually_ aren’t pilots and don’t have deep knowledge about all aircraft systems and (b) they don’t have the benefit of subtitles to double check what their ears hear
@@AS-id7jo still, I am unsure what benefit they derive from the information they request, unless it's tower and it is used by ground emergency response
You need to orient the map to magnetic north. As an airtraffic controller Im tired of seeing vectors incorect to screen control.
The time to learn the location of elevator pitch trim circuit breaker is way before it runs away. You need to be able to find it with closed eyes. Same with the autopilot circuit breaker.
Airplanes like this usually have stabilizer cutout switches on the center pedestal next to the manual trim controls.
We have memory items to kill the elevator pitch trim systems. First push and hold the AP/DISC button on the yoke, thereafter push the 2 pitch trim buttons on the pedestal.
Thereafter you can go though the checklist and engage one of the pitch trim systems that is working correctly
Oh and in commercial aviation we normally don’t pull circuit breakers and definitely not with closed eyes ;)
Pitch trim run away is a memory item that all SkyWest ERJ pilots have to know. Pulling out the circuit breaker isn’t the procedure for it.
Sounds like you are suggesting the pilots were unprepared? I see no evidence of that, in the contrary.
a) why to slow down. Was there another aircraft in front of them, also cleared for 22L
b) why didn't thewy slow down?
There was a plane in front of them a 737. They have to be at or below 180 below 3000 feet. They didn't slow down immediately because they were trying to keep the aircraft under control. Remember, aviate, navigate, communicate.
huge fail on behalf of atc.. three controllers in a row all of them sucked