Steel is super effective against fairy because in European cultures especially the main way of dealing with the supernatural is with iron, because it symbolises industrialism and the disconnect that forms from nature as humanity progresses technologically. This can be seen best in how werewolves are weak to silver bullets. Great video and I appreciate lots of the changes you suggested. I personally always wondered why fighting wasn’t either super effective or resistant to itself and seeing you change that made me finally able to be at peace
@@chisei8282 Silver is still a metal, same as Iron. Logic still applies, Steel is kind of a misnomer for the type, the TCG really had it right, Metal is a more appropriate title.
Silver bullets come from a story of a man who melted down an inherited silver icon of the Virgin Mary to make bullets to kill an unkillable dog-monster that was thought to be sent by Satan. It wasn't the metal, not even the silver, it was that the bullets were made of a holy icon that made them effective. Over time, all that mattered became the silver itself as the original story became forgotten and replaced. It's completely disconnected from the fairy and iron thing, which is a pre-Christian idea.
5:30 One interesting thing is that with this loop, you can actually have a loop within a loop. Rock, Fire, and Steel create a loop with each other, but also all 3 are simultaneously strong against Ice and weak against Ground. This could potentially be used for some neat gameplay tricks, such as a first gym that's ground type, and encouraging the player to search a snowy forrest or mountain for counters to said ground types!
Is this bait? Nicotine is a pesticide, but humans can inhale it for decades. Your house can get fumigated monthly and you wouldn't even notice. The effectiveness of poison basically depends on how small your body is, and they work very easily on bugs because they're so tiny.
@@_WhiteMage considering that cockroaches alone can resist and even survive toxic nuclear wastes while we develop cancers I say yeah that makes sense.
Me and a friend were talking about making Normal super-effective against Fairy. From a mechanics side, normal deserves a super effective offense and fairy could stand to have a third weakness. From flavor side, the way we see it, normal is like "the real world" which starkly denies fairy tales. Making a Normal pokemon essentially a rebuttal to the existence of Fairies
@mandu9979 the argument could be made, but if we are going off of a flavor thing, it would make more sense for steel types to be super effective against dragons as well, because like, knights in shining armor, whereas normal types I'd say are fine as neutral both ways since the average person could potentially be a threat to a dragon given the right circumstances.
One element to this I think folks that suggest a starter type trio change up underestimate is player psychology. Simply put, I don't think any of the other trio loops are as player intuitive as fire/grass/water especially for the younger and or newbie side of the player-base. Like sure the Elekid, Smoochum, and Magby trio used in romhacks like FireRed Omega works for the older skewing demographics of that scene but I'm skeptical that setup makes it out of focus testing/play testing for a mainline game with the financial expectations of AAA franchise that has to have a broad appeal.
Yeah, nothing else is intuitive or A-list like plant , water, fire. Then again, I remember learning that grass is super effective to water and thinking it dosent make intuitive sense. Just because plants drink water dosent mean they are good at defrosting water
I really don't think any game with only 3 types could really be considered a Pokemon game anymore. Games with only a single triangular perfect loop just end up pushing the strongest stat sticks to the top anyways, which is ideally something elemental weaknesses and resistances should be discouraging. It would also shut out dual types from the game and any access to coverage moves would sort of defeat the purpose of a perfect triangle and make speed and power the unequivocal best. The reduced type numbers and lack of dual types in the TCG could be an interesting starting point. The way they handle weaknesses, resistances and the occasional immunity reminds me of more standard JRPGs where each enemy might have their own unique spread, with general rules for certain classes/species. I'm not sure that's particularly helpful or a direction I want pokemon to go in, but it could be an example of how to scale down various systems in the game, such as going from 4 to 2 moves, to accommodate a smaller chart. That being said, I do like the idea of limited types by game (Especially with spinoffs. Gates to Infinity and Pokemon Conquest had very limited rosters and obvious winners from lack of counters) and even an expanded type-chart to add into the rotation. Also, you highlighted Ground is neutral to Ground at 12:35, meanwhile Ground hitting Rock neutrally is not marked. Good thing you covered every type's changes in full later! The high prevalence of certain type pairings is also worth noting for type changes, such as Poison/Grass being 4x resistant to Fairy and now having dual-STAB coverage for any secondary typing on a Fairy. (Although, in general, getting four extra weaknesses is already pretty damning, especially since you point out Grass is one of the most common types.) Rock/Ground types can cheer for losing one of their 4x weaknesses. I agree with Bugs getting a much needed buff (and Poison too, since their main selling point is Fairy coverage and defending against the status), and curiously I don't think there's any major implications for Poison/Bug types. Flying/Normal stayed exactly the same too XD
Yeah I don't think a just 3 type game would be much good, hence why I didn't focus on it for too long, for the reasons you stated. I would be really interested to see a 9 type spin-off. Plenty for duel types while being a shorter game that still keeps the strategies varied! Great note about how some duel pairings are really common, even this aspect throws balance through another turn around well after you have made the adjustments to the chart.
I never got why steel doesn't resist fighting, armor literally exists so that you can take less damage from physical attacks, taking extra damage because you put on armor makes no sense
the equivalent of a simple physical attack would be normal, which steel resists. Fighting is more about martial arts, which have the mystic and legend of making someone so strong to be able to crush metals
I like some of these ideas but I think it might focus a bit too much on the big picture. For individual types, you kinda want their matchups to reflect their nature and there was probably opportunities to examine the type concepts in isolation to determine what could help flesh out a type's personality. You made fighting resist itself but what if you made it weak against itself instead to evoke recklessness and competition in fighting types going toe-to-toe? You could also bring out the warrior archetype in them by having them be super effective against dragons. Correct me if I'm wrong but I also didn't spot any attempts to make two types super effective against one another - candidates for that could be ghost and psychic: mortals trying to master the supernatural and the supernatural in turn proving how dangerous that ambition is. Fire and ice are also self explanatory candidates for this, but maybe also steel and electric. Of course you can also make resistances add to a type's personality. Steel is the obvious one but bug also gets a shoutout for resisting fighting and ground, the two types with a reputation for reliably hitting most targets at least neutrally, which gives bug that sense of a pest you can't fight conventionally. I like the broad structuring of these type loops but I think there's some work you can do to have the macro details work in concert with the micro details. What should it feel like to play a particular type? Gen 1 set an arguably ugly precedent of using base stats and moves to answer this question: rocks feel bulky because all the rock types have high defense, bugs feel weak because we made them all weak. As the generations have gone on and pokemon within a type diversified, you don't really feel that same sense of belonging between Golem and, say, Lycanroc. Moves and stats flesh out individuals but I don't think it should carry the weight of a whole type, yknow?
12:40 This is very interesting. Very interesting choice not to make them all balance to 0. When I did it myself I made them all balance to 0, and only kept interactions that make sense. It was quite a job.
I think Dragon might be a bit of a problem now. With Fairy no longer being immune to it and both Fairy and Steel getting much weaker it seems incredibly powerful offensively. At the bare minimum I would make Psychic resist it, as it was already bad and this new type chart just hurts it even more.
I've maintained for a long time that Ice should get a Dragon resist. Helps patch up the "glass cannon" quality of the type and also gives another way to check dragons, who are most frequently high-power mons.
@@DarthMohawk1 i was about to say the same thing. Ice could really use the boost and it would actually give it a niche where it works well also dragon resists all the starter types which is just annoying
@@log3ckert386that’s kind of the point with Dragon though, of the five “elemental types,” Dragon resists the three/four starter types, with Ice, the once lategame elemental type, being the one to beat it. It’s designed as an endgame type, one that you can’t just bulldoze with your starter.
Fire got fairy as a resist for two reasons: 1. Fairy is already one of the best types in the game. It needs more resists 2. Fire is very weak defensively compared to water and grass. It would benefit from getting a defense boost. Not according to the type chart, but when you factor in the pokemons and moves in the game. Stealth Rock straight up makes some mons unviable, earthquake is extremely common and one of the strongest attack in the game. Being a fire type is often a negative, when Game Freak meant it to be a mostly balanced type like water or grass
3:15 What I got from this video: fairy type is 10 years old. I have yet to play any Pokemon game with fairy type in it. I'm old. Only Kanto exists leave me alone!
Grass Poison Ground is still my favourite loop in pokemon It's not the most intuitive, but poison and ground do feel like they fit the starter vibe better than fire.
I really like the Fairy's resistance to Ground, in reference to Faerie Forts and Fey Traps. This helps me think about how to manage my own typing system. Think I got it figured out now actually. With Sound/Ohm, God, and Nothing being the big debalancers, it should be perfectly balanced within the wheel, and perfectly imbalanced as a whole system. (God & Nothing are always monotype. God makes Sound, Sound fills the Nothing, Nothing beats God)
I would add Mammal/Fish/Bird/Humanoid/and other categories to Dragon/Fairy/Bug/Ghost and they would become the defensive typings, while the classic elements would stay as attacks with Magic attacks become Magic, light replacing Fairy attacks, Bug attacks being retyped along with most ghost attacks just becoming dark. Pokemon get a species type and up to 2 elemental types. This would let Trapinch/Vibrava be Bug species but ground + Ground/flying, with Flygon being Dragon species and Ground/Flying offensive types.
yes i agree that electric types shouldn't be weak to ground i can under stand ground being immune but it doesn't disrupt electricity it makes a lot more sense for electric types to be weak to fire, water or ice because those elements disrupts electrical circuits
Im making a fangame Adding a water resisted by ice and fairy weak to bug to nerf and buff respective types This is along with an adjustment to scald to bring it in line with freeze dry although an overhaul could be cool for a hardcore version of my fangame, solely to make it so people have more thinking and to balance the type chart around my games specific progression
I've thought it be interesting if some regions had thier own interpretation of type chart. Like maybe some regions combine ice and water into a single type or maybe a region where they don't consider normal and ghost real types, thinking of them as Like states of being. Or one that uses a a pokemon personality as the deciding factor like a righteous or a intelligent type (maybe classification would be better word).
I actually have some ideas for the reasonings for the Ghost-Dragon-Fairy loop: Fairy beats Dragon because of the classic Good beats Evil trope. The classic story needs its happy ending. Ghost beats Fairy because of Fairy's ties to nature, and Ghost's lack thereof. By being the inverse of life while still being able to affect it, Ghosts are not affected heavily by the life-based Fairy. Dragon beats Ghost because of the Ghost type's need for fear. Dragons, being large, imposing apex predators, needn't fear much. If a Ghost (or anyone else) would mess with their stuff, they'd just burn them to a crisp. I also like a headcanon that dragon flames specifically can vaporize ghosts, just to solidify the trope. Anyway, the typechart seems rlly logical overall, great video!
Fairy beating Dragon due to good vs evil doesn't really make sense either. There's plenty of stories of Fairies making people dance till their feet bleed or worse. And there's plenty stories about dragons be troves of knowledge or on the side of the hero
A desert region could have grass and water or a grass/water pokemon (mythic or legendary even) of an oasis pokemon. Which makes me think about a mirage pokemon...
I like the idea of this video, but I feel many of the changes to fairy type ignore the true nature of fae folk. The grimmsnarl line has shown that fairy type is in fact, not fairies in the modern understanding. Peter Pan's Tinkerbell is what may come to mind upon hearing "fairy". Grimmsnarl however shows that the fairy type has much more to do with true fairies, fae folk. Fae folk originate from multiple European folklore, Celtic especially comes to mind. Fae folk are, put lightly, bastards. They will steal the lives of adults and children. Kidnapping, killing, even turning humans into fae folk. Fae folk are creatures of mischief and pranks and will stop at nothing to make your life hell if you've wronged them. The grass type may be the bodies of the plants, but they in no way encompass nature as a whole. Put simply, fae folk would not be harmed by nature. They ARE nature. This is part of why steel type is effective against fairy type. The creations of man trample the beauty of nature. Fairy type being fae folk also provides an explanation for fairy type not being very effective against fire. Nature adapts to fire, but is powerless against it.
I disagree with your opening monologue about there not being a good reason to combine some of the types. From a game-design perspective, types should be intuitive, umbrella genuses. Dark & Ghost, and Ground & Rock, are very difficult to distinguish conceptually, which leads to confusion and a difficulty in remembering weaknesses and strengths. It'd be easy to get this down to 15 or 16 types, which is already a lot.
I keep thinking Normal type is basically the regular individuals who mind their live like other, thus when they meet a bulky brawlly bullies (Fighting type) they will be no match, though these individuals can retaliate. Normal individuals cannot move mountain (Rock) but they can learn to dig it Normal individuals cannot bend machine (Steel) but fire can Super natural stuff such as spectre (Ghost), in normal individuals mind, is considered not exist, so did supernatural stuff unable to haunt normal individuals, because the same reason Fairy, however (this will be interesting), is like dream and fantasy, our childhood, something the normal individuals used to dream off. They used to believe that giant fire-breathing monster (Dragon) cannot hurt their mighty sefl as a hero of fantasy (Fairy) They also used to believed they resisted the magic of wicked evil witch (Dark), and defeating the said witch However, these individuals grows older and have to follow the norms (Normal), which abandoned their fantasy They grow disbeliving their happy fantasy, the norm and rule (Normal) for being normal resisted the fantasy (Fairy) from their mind, making it felt like a mere beautiful little dream, a fiction of a child. Thus, I have present you the argument of why Normal type should resist Fairy type, as well as why Normal type should deal super effective against Fairy type. Thank you 😂😂
i think what would be more interesting than changing around the weaknesses/resistances, would be to change the modifier. so instead of double damage, a super effective hit does 1.5 or even 1.3. so it's less a game of type matchups and more about other strategies and having to know what every pokemon is good at.
there was a pokemon fangame creator which I will keep unnamed, that had a big chip on their shoulder about making sure that people used specific strategies to beat the gyms/'boss battles' and every time a player would talk about finding an alternative strat, she'd edit the game code to make it impossible 😂😂😂😂trying to create a 'perfect balance' aka making the game worse
I honestly would remove Rock and leave ground, since they so similar and Rock has a horrible problem with "Too many weaknesses". And well... Honestly the problem with the rest is that there are too many types that just serve to break through the ones that seem broken before, the whole Dark type seems unnecessary to me for existing since Ghost had the purpose of countering psychics, same with bug. But the Pokemon associated with them back in Gen 1 were not using their type attacks because they were mostly bad or not offensive options. I would remove Dark as well.
Only change I’d make would be to take away the grass advantage on fairy. I get your reasoning but fae and nature almost always work well together but if you argue that if nature were to turn against it, it would be super effective than the same should be said if fae turned against nature. So I would either have them be neutral against each other both ways. Or super effective both ways
Yeah, I don’t like it. You destroyed fairy type - arguably the strongest offensive type -, made psychic the new bug, and reintroduced the problem of dragons being unstoppable that fairies were created to solve. And that’s just a superficial analysis from a intuitive understanding as a veteran VGC player.
Ah not likely sorry. Really all I have to say about starters is that they should rotate types around... which is basically what this episode is about. If I was a character artist I would *love* to dive into designing new starters for new type loops for sure!
Instead of making Fire and Ice neutral towards each other, I think I would make them super effective against each other. That's a unique interaction that we don't have yet. Bug and Fighting resist each other but no two types are super effective towards each other. And to buff Ice a little, I would make Ice be immune to itself since that is also something that no other type does. I love that Bug is immune to Psychic, it makes sense. And removing Steel's resistance and Dark's immunity are also great ideas to make Psychic just a bit better
it makes no sense to eliminate dark's immunity to psychic. Fear inhibit's the mind and dark is the strongest form of fear hence the immunity. bug should resist psychic but not be immune to it because an insect's mind is far smaller compared to a human mind plus insects are a common form of fear albeit a weak form.
Fun fact: In the beta version of Gen II (which was available as a demo in Japan at certain events) Normal and Dark were super effective against each other (for some reason) Also, fire and ice being strong against each other only really works if there is no water type I’ve only ever seen that in games where water and ice are the same element
@@shadowprince4620 its a color model using cyan, magenta, yellow and black! It is the additive counterpart to RGB’s subtractive type of color model. CMYK is mostly used in color printing.
@maybeaferret7877 why is black represented by K? I gathered the others from the original comment but I couldn't think of any colors starting with K. Is it just to differentiate it from Blue?
@@curt367 I Looked it up and apparently it is meant to represent key or keyplate! A printing term that meant the plate that held the most detail, most often being black!
I actually love the lack of perfect loops in the type chart. I think the asymmetry of Pokémon is great and truly valuable to the health of the game. Having imperfect loops makes them each feel different as types rather than a reskin of the fire water grass. Cool video!
2:36 See, there's a reason why Pokémon doesn't need any new types, even outside of a game design/balance perspective. Every one of these concepts (aside from maybe ooze) is already represented by a currently existing type Magic: Fairy, and sometimes Psychic Acid: Poison Void: Dark Crystal: Rock Divine: Fairy again The vast majority of things that could be made into types are either already represented by a type or are already an existing archetype of move like sound
Really liked the changes and would be cool to see this happening in a real pokémon game. The idea of grass being weak against dark doesn't feel right to me. I think the dark type suffers a lot from the way its name has been translated. The dark type is to be intended as the evil and mischevious type and not as the "abscence of light" type ahaha but that's was just your idea and everything else was very good!
While I understand that as the evil type Dark generally focuses on brutal and savage or mischievous or underhanded attacks I'd say that having darkness & Shadow based attacks as a manifestation of evil isn't a bad thing given the human perception of darkness being evil. If ghost can have shadow based attacks why not the evil type? It's no different from multiple different types having light-based attacks.
@@leafdragoon8551 they have in dark pulse and such and that's completely fine maybe they are a mix of both evil and darkness but again dark pulse for example is said to be aura imbued with dark thoughts not specifically darkness sooo
@@RadioactiveMagicGames I don't blame you ahaha! Some dark pokémon such as Darkrai may suggest darkness and gloominess but if you look closely you can see that they all are malicious and mean beings. What about ghost types? They are more evocative in that sense and the move night shade is a clear sign ghosts draw power from pitch black nights and darkness.
At first i thought Dark was super effective against Grass lol. But after learning it was more of an immoral type and not just "no light" im ok with Dark being neutral on Grass. Plus Grass gets a lot of hate with how many weaknesses it has and how little of an offensive presence it is
Interestingly, you actually removed a perfect loop in grass, ground, poison. I'm not against that change, I'm just pointing it out. I like the idea of some games using less types, since it'll mess with the meta for that specific game without having to make knock on changes. I could see a tropical island region that has a volcano in the middle, leading to a lack of ice types. Or a cavernous region that has few flying and grass types.
1. I can't believe I missed this loop. I should have talked about it. 2. It's *almost* a perfect loop since ground doesn't resist itself like the other two do, however, it is so close to a perfect loop that yeah, I should have mentioned it... So here is what I would have said! "I'm going to mess up this loop in my own edits instead of enforcing it and I don't really mind doing that. The reason being, Grass is already in its own perfect loop and I would like to avoid doubling up as much as possible."
@@RadioactiveMagicGames In a similar vein, Fire/Steel/Rock is also currently a perfect loop aside from Rock not resisting itself. I always imagined some generation with a thematic of Environmentalism vs Industrialism, with one game having a Grass/Ground/Poison trio and the other having a Fire/Steel/Rock trio, then with a third version that had a classic Fire/Grass/Water trio, though the idea of alternative starter towns within a single game as you described here would likely be a better implementation for such a concept.
Once again, water is still too powerful as a starter type, just slap an ice beam on it and you have only one weakness, and if you are water/ground with swift swim, well lol good luck. Fire is still too weak, all three of its vulnerabilities are common as heck with stealth rocks, earthquake, and way too many strong water types everywhere. Solution: make poison and dragon super effective against water. Poison: oil and sludge contaminating water supplies and killing off most life is very common nowadays, as for dragon, well in japan, dragons are masters of water. Otherwise amazing video, you deserve more views and subscribers.
Dragon being super effective against water is stupid unless we're also going to make dragons super effective against every type (if it exists, there's a dragon in some mythology that controls it)
As someone who exclusively cares about fixing the typechart for competitive pokemon purposes, and is wholly indifferent to the typechart's effect on mainline games-many of these changes have drastic domino effects that would be disastrous for competitive pokemon. By "disastrous" of course what I mean is that your changes would cause the pool of viable pokemon who even "exist" in the first place (i.e.: have any reason to treat like they even exist at all) to shrink to a fraction of what it is now. Alot of this comes from the fact that buffing a type's offensive capacity doesn't really buff that pokemon as much as it does buff the most defensively-sound pokemon that know moves of that type. Making fairy type weak to bug type doesn't make bug type pokemon much stronger-but DOES make fairy type pokemon afraid of every non-bug type pokemon out there that learns U-Turn. Buffing a type's defensive capacity goes alot further to actually make types stronger. Here are some examples of some of the negative effects your proposed changes might create: For example, fire types being weak to stealth rock by itself means that fire type pokemon are among the worst of the worst from the get-go-and have a ton of trouble just existing. Most of the time their fairy resistance is the only thing giving them a competitive use-case that even lets whatever other advantages a given fire type might have be explored in the first place-and even then if a fire type pokemon isn't the single best fire type available its not worth the stealth rock weakness to even consider. Worsening fire defenses even further by removing the very valuable fairy resistance-without an even more significant buff to compensate-is akin to deleting all fire type pokemon from the game. Ground type pokemon are most-of-the-time absolutely terrible, having only three resistances and weaknesses to quite possibly all three of the most common attacking types in the game. Other than ground types like Landorus, Great Tusk, or Excadrill that are paired with such strong secondary typings and are given such strong utility to justify the risk being ground type comes with-ground types never even see the light of day. The one thing giving it a use-case despite being an atrocious typing overall is its offensive capacity. I see you modestly improved their defense ability, but since they were already at a deficit it is nerfing an already struggling type. There were a handful of other such changes, but mostly along these lines. As someone who theorycrafts type chart changes ALOT, one thing i've learned is that adding or removing weaknesses is a very volatile means of rebalancing types with the most dramatic domino effect. Its generally better to rebalance by simply adding or removing resistances. And even then, removing resistances can be volatile. A good tool is to keep track of every possible combination of the 18 types and see if your changes have increased or decreased the number of those combinations with 5 or more weaknesses and/or double weaknesses. If you have, its probably time to go back to the drawing board a bit. But then again, our goals are vastly different from one another so there's also that-but I can't help but wonder if there might be some venn diagram overlap between our two goals.
This is a super interesting post from the perspective of someone who no longer plays Pokémon, but watches a lot of VGC competitive format, where entry hazards are non-existent in the meta, so fire types are fairly common.
this looks like bait ngl. it's not like having a bad type invalidates a pokemon from being good, looking at you tyranitar, and saying ground types are terrible? have you considered that the reason ground is weak to common, powerful types is that a large part of why those types are common and powerful is because they're good against ground types? getting free switches against electric moves is invaluable, especially when it comes to volt switch, and don't brush off stab. yeah fire types hate stealth rocks but acting like volcarona will suddenly be PU if it doesn't check magearna for the month before it gets banned is hyperbolic.
@@ILiekFishes I was never trying to say that a bad type automatically invalidated a pokemon regardless of other factors, and trying to imply such sounds like you're either deliberately oversimplifying my argument in bad faith or blatantly misunderstood everything I was saying. My point is that a bad typing raises the bar of what that pokemon's other attributes (ability, movepool, etc) need to compensate for so goofy high that the deck is stacked heavily against 95% of pokemon of a given type. Ground type's electric immunity helps stuff like Landorus and Great Tusk, sure, but trying to imply that the type is perfectly balanced because of the immunity sounds as goofy as trying to say that Mudsdale or Sandslash are OU staples. Adding more offensive super-effective interactions, and removing resistances from types that already struggle defensively, dramatically decreases the number of type combinations that are good enough to not need goofy support to be viable. Instead of 25-40 OU viable pokemon in a given meta, you're shrinking the pool down to only a fraction of that.
Yeah, but the premise of the video was a series reboot. I feel like if the kind of reboot that redoes the entire typechart, would also come with a redo of learnsets. I also feel like entry hazards in general are overdue for a massive overhaul.
Some of the changes I felt were unneeded such as Fire not having any relationship with ice. Ice doing neutral damage to Fire (like in G1) is fine, but Fire not hitting it super effectively though? Things such as Electric dealing 1/2× to Rock while becoming strong against Steel, Fighting being resistant to itself are alright enuf though. 1 crucial thing u forgot to mention is traits & benefits a type can have: terrains, weather, Grass' immunity to Leech Seed & powder moves, abilities, movepools (Normal having tons of elemental coverage) & how good moves can be for a certain type (Scald for Water-types, Draco Meteor for Dragon), Ghosts can't be trapped starting with G6, moves that a said type can usually get (Water-types being blessed with Ice moves, Dragons typically get Fire moves), rarity of a type (as u mentioned Grass being quite common), & so much more. There's a lot to consider when balancing the type chart & I think u did a ok job. Hard to say how balanced it's in practice by just looking at it.
It has never made sense to me that Steel isn't weak to Electric...the logic behind Water being weak to Electric applies just as well to Steel. Also how the heck do you only have triple digit subscribers? Your content is absolutely fantastic, very thoughtful and incredibly edited. You're a real hidden gem and you've got yourself a new subscriber :)
I see this everywhere, but Steel shouldn't be weak to Electric. Do you know why electric cables are made of metal? It's because electricity passing through it doesn't have any long term damage, while passing electricity through water will pretty much kill anything in it. The big difference is that Steel type Pokémon are almost all just giants hunks of metal, while almost every Water type is a fish, or other aquatic creature. So run an electric current through a metal pipe and one through an aquarium and tell me which lasts longer, because I'll bet you anything that the metal pipe can take it all day long.
@@dillonsomerville4729 Ah! But! In the real world we don't have animals that are made of metal or live in/amongst it. If you want to make a fair comparison then you would compare the conductivity of water without any life in it. How can you know for sure that electricity running through a metal *organism* wouldn't do lots of damage to it? Since we are creatures made of mostly of water and we know that water *can* conduct electricity AND by doing so it does damage, we can extrapolate that a creature made of metal (with even greater conductivity than water) could take even greater damage!
@@RadioactiveMagicGames Plants are also water based life forms. According to your logic, why isn't Grass also weak to Electric? I'd say either make both Steel and Grass weak to Electric, or make neither.
This misses most of the themes and conceptual reasons behind type matchups, fails to create interesting spots with full immunities or double-effective matchups, and nobody who says "scissors paper rock" in that order can be trusted.
my biggest beef with the fairy type was always that it was immune to dragon instead of just resisting it. with how common fairy type is, in my opinion, it nerfs dragons too much. dragons were always supposed to be insanely powerful and hard to obtain. that's why the majority of dragon types pre gen 6 were legendaries and pseudo legendaries. i understand that since there ended up being so many across all the generations, they wanted to nerf it, but the solution should have been maybe not letting it resist so many things, and giving it one or two offensive weaknesses while making sure to keep dragons hard to obtain. if someone goes through the effort of catching a dratini and raising it into a dragonite, gosh dang it that dragonite should be able to touch a hecking clefairy. that is all.
12:36 psychic has no effect on bug, interesting. Why is Bug super on fairy? Fairy is a spirit of nature. It should not be harmed by Plants or Bugs. Also why is fairy weak to ghost? It should be the other way around due to fairies being spirits of life and spring. Interesting that Dragon is strong against dark. I can’t imagine a logical reason though.
Fighting is called the Hero type in Japanese and so it's why it interacts badly with the pure Fairies. Same thing for the Dark type that is actually called Evil type there.
Fact check: You are correct concerning the Dark Type, but the Fighting type in Japanese is called かくとうタイプ, which translates to "hand-to-hand fighting" type.
@@KeitaroHirochibut the reason it beats evil aka dark is because the fighting type also represents justice so if fairy is supposed to be good magic or something there shouldn't be a clash between them and justice
If you want to be technical about it, Water should be immune to electric, because water is actually a perfect insulator. It's the impurities in the water that make it conduct.
@@dresdenlancer9012 There could definitely be a boiling water pokemon with electric resist, I could see that. Or it could based on holy water, maybe it filters another way, idk.
I’ve literally always start ghost dragon and fairy was such an interesting type circle. Not only are they just amazing and cool times that often result in some pretty interesting designs but there’s almost a theme of fairytales and whimsical supernatural creatures when you put them all together, and in a way that really fitting for Pokémon but it’s also very different so you could lean into like a folklore aspect. Unseen, fairies, playing tracks, ghost, howling in the wind, and legends of dragons, hidden within the wild of your hometown.
Welp now dragon is the most broken type by a landslide since the only two types that switch well into it are now significantly weaker and it now has a new valuable resist in ghost typing. Ice being a little better doesn’t really help that much since ice types don’t resist Draco meteor spam.
@@vegeta002 is an ice type pokemon good at manipulating water? If i melted your gun into a pile of hot slag, hot slag is really dangerous, but you certainly can’t use it very effectively against me any more
@Arkouchie Ice is just frozen water, and ice attacks tend to freeze targets, while fire types tend to be very hot. Encase the fire type in ice and that ice will be melted into water. Now you have a fire type doused in water, a devastating position to be in.
@@shubuman Ice coating a fire type has nothing to do with the pokemon using Ice Beam or whatever freezing move is used, so fire's effect on Ice is not relevant and was never the debate. Ice in contact with a fire type is water, therefore fire should be weak to ice. It's literally the same as melting metal into molten slag and throwing it in someone's face.
I think this type chart is too out of whack. I don't think you considered the offensive interactions of sister types. For exemple, trading Steel's ground weakness for an electric weakness is a huge buff. Not only does it give it a nich as a rare electric resist, but more way more importantly: You just make Steel not weak to EdgeQuake. One of the most common sister types. Ground/Rock, Water/Ice, Electric/Ice/Fire (BoltBeam is the scary variation atm but no matter the changes keep in mind most mons with one of the punches/fangs get all 3 types), Fire/Grass, Dark/Ghost. ^A good type chart must take in mind the associations of types in move sets. EdgeQuake: Ground is reliable but has frequent full immunities, while Rock has low accuracy and SR keeps x4 weak pkm away but it covers Ground's coverage. Water/Ice: Ice is arguably the best offensive type, while water is arguably in the running for top 3 defensive types. Putting Ice on a water type is a cheat code that can't be too free to abuse in either building your mon or piloting it. BoltBeam: Perfect coverage. Don't give it to mons with stab on either unless they are physical attackers. Keep the special attacks trio (with fire) the privilege of normal types. Give the punches and fangs more freely as those moves are worst and make contact. Be more willing to give the full trio from fangs than punches. Fire/Grass; Sun can't be a free. It exists. It functionally boosts 2 type dmg with close to perfect cover in a way nearly comparable to a +2 boost without accounting for abilities. Dark/Ghost: The "I might not murder you but I will cut you" perfect coverage.
Really liked grass having advantage over Fairy! tho complete advantage seems a bit much imo. I think Grass resisting Fairy is enough. I also completely agree with some other changes, like Ice resisting water or steel being weak to electric. On the topic of electric, one idea that I like and have never seen mentioned is electric being super-effective against bug. Much like how poison could represent pesticides, electric could represent bug zapper lights and other such devices.
The Dark type in Pokemon is less actual darkness and more malice or evilness(and there's the common media trope of good guys always winning in the end, hence why Fighting, the type encompassing honor, and Fairy, the type encompassing good magics, both resist it). If you wanna buff it, I'd say make its interaction with Poison better(whether resisting it or being supereffective against it), with the reasoning of villains in media often being associated with illness and poisonings.
I'm gonna be honest. Most of the proposed ideas and changes seem... not great. Maybe not from a casual standpoint, but from a competitive one. Now I understand competitive isnt everything, in fact I enjoy Pokemon more often for the designs and story than for the competitive game. But the thing is that these changes usually dont really effect the casual experience all too much. Bug type sucks in competitive, but I know people who run with a bug type their entire casual playthru. These changes have. Afar greater effect on competiitve, so I feel the competitive leaning perspective might be more valuable to take into consideration here.
When it comes to dark it's meant to be the evil type so just like how fairy is weak to steel because theyre weak to metal in folklore, I always asked why either steel didnt resist or was super effective against the evil type but the psychic type one known for BENDING METAL was resisted by steel! Kadabra and Alakazam deal with twisted spoons for a reason!
There are some really cool ideas in here (especially the ghost/dragon/fairy trio) Personally, I've always thought that poison should be supereffective against water. Afterall, an oil spill can be a huge environmental disaster. Personally to keep it balanced I would maybe remove the effectiveness against bug for reasons other people have said in the comment section.
Merge ground and rock. Then merge grass and bug. All bug pokemon really can fit in grass or poison, and it doesn't need its own. Remove normal from the type chart. Don't eliminate normal, but make normal.... normal. And then you have 15 elements. Fifteen is a nice place to be at
These are great on paper but i dont think they take the over 1000 pokemon and their unique types/attacks/stats into account. If you do a type overhaul, youll have to overhaul the rest of the game.
I think some ice type mons should have an ability where if attacked by a fire type move, they become a water type. Fire melts ice but water puts out fire
Fire and Ice need to be mutually super effective, tbh. Using the same neutral logic as yours, but melted ice is water, and fire melts ice. Also, Ice needs to be super effective on while resisting electric. This is because improperly winterized electrical stuff will get wrecked in a blizzard, see Texas or how blizzards are notorious for causing outages, and ice is less conductive to electricity. On top of that, it creates an answer for Electric types other than Ground.
Ice resists Water. I see this suggestion brought up by many players when it comes to revamping the Type Chart, but this is a TERRIBLE idea. Not because it would make Ice too strong or anything like that, but because then we'd have two mutual resistances between them. Mono-Water resists Water and Ice. Now Mono-Ice also resists both Water and Ice. Match these two types together and you'd get a lot more stalling. Heaven forbid you get a Water/Ice mirror match like Dewgong vs. Dewgong where they're just spamming Quad resisted moves over and over again!
A huge issue with this type chart is that it messes up competitive completely. Its interesting for in-game but a fixed type chart isnt going to fix the numerous other issues releases have had. The most notable part of these changes is that dragon and ghost become even stronger offensively, which if youve played vgc, bss or smogon singles, you would know why thats such a bad ides.
99% of people don't even bother with the competitive side of pokemon so who cares lmao. All competitive pokemon is is smogon fart sniffers and constant swapping of pokemon in and out. Boring af.
@theteutonicorder9158 the main series games suck ass for numerous reasons and the type chart is not one of them. That's probably the least important thing given everything else. Also it just sounds like you don't know how to play and all you do is click the Unga bunga button lol so you wouldn't care about the type chart. And there's a reason I listed the comp modes in that specific order since that's the order game freak cares about them/gives them importance in and vgc specifically is very important to them right now.
@pmwaffle9348 I don't even play Pokémon anymore. X and Y were my last main series game. Just got fed up with all the handholding and lack of content. I've tried a lot of Pokémon style games like nexomon , coromon, and cassette beasts. Next month Extinction was probably my favorite one of those despite the flaws I enjoyed it a lot more than Pokémon.
@theteutonicorder9158 comp (vgc) is quite literally the only thing thriving right now. BSS is only really popular in Japan and smogon singles have been a mess this gen thanks to powercreep and that isn't even the worst. Casual fans are given absolute slop and for some reason keep eating it up. I'm glad we're in agreement about that at least because it's really sad how poorly the switch games are made compared to earlier titles and the sheer revenue they produce.
Really interesting video! I admit, I'm a little disappointed by the 'nerf everything about steel' approach; it was already a terrible offensive type, and was always intended to be a premium (not just good) defensive type; taking away so much of it's defensive utility makes the whole type feel lackluster.
Here's how I'd change the type chart: Grass is immune to Fairy (photosynthesis) Water is weak to Poison and Ice. Said types both resist it (water pollution and water freezing) Normal is weak to Psychic, Fighting and Dark. Normal moves however hit everyone neutrally except for Ghost, being no longer resisted by Rock or Steel (Psychic, Fighting and Dark represent being more intelligent, stronger, or more dishonorable, than a normal human, while normal means non-elemental and as such should not be resisted) Fighting is no longer supereffective on Ice. It is, however, no longer resisted by Poison. It resists Dragon (martial arts don't protect against cold or poisons, but the courage of fighters allows them to not fear dragons). Electric is weak to Dark and is not very effective against it. It's also supereffective on Steel (blackouts, and metals being conductive). Poison lost its resistance to Fighting, but it resists Water and is supereffective on it, and also resists Dark. It can hit Steel, albeit being resisted by it, but can no longer hit Bug, and is now weak to Rock (martial arts don't protect from poison but it pollutes water, and poison is a dishonorable tactic while dark is all about dishonorable tactics, bugs resist poisons and crystals cannot be poisoned, but steel being flat-out immune to it makes no sense). Psychic is supereffective on Normal and Fairy, and weak to Dragon (a more clever human beats a normal human, science can comprehend the physics of light and debunk its magic, and dragons cause fear). Dark resists Electric and is supereffective against it. It's also supereffective on Normal, but resisted by Poison (blackouts, beating an average human by excelling in dishonorable tactics, but poison is also dishonorable). Ghost resists Fairy but no longer resists Bug (ghosts being immaterial and magical beings and as such being able to withstand magic, but it makes no sense for bugs to be resisted by ghosts). Rock does no damage on Steel and is resisted by Ice, having also gained a weakness to the latter type. It does not resist Normal However, it's supereffective on Poison. It gained a resistance to Bug and to Rock itself and is no longer resisted by Ground (rocks being unable to break steel because it's harder, ice erodes rock, normal is non-elemental, rocks being able to absorb pollutants, bugs cannot break rocks). Ground hits Steel neutrally, is resisted by Ice, and no longer resists Rock. Ice is supereffective against Water and Rock, and resists Water, Ground and Rock. It's hit neutrally by Fighting, and only weak to Steel and Fire (ice erodes rocks, freezes water, and martial arts do nothing to protect from the cold). Steel no longer resists Normal but it does resist Dark, is hit neutrally by Ground, and is weak to Dragon and Electric. It resists Poison but is no longer immune to it, being immune to Rock instead. It's resisted by Dragon (steel armors can resist dishonorable tactics, metal is conductive, and dragons are mystical beings so stronger than tech). Bug resists Fairy and is supereffective against it. It's also immune to Poison, is no longer resisted by Ghost (bugs belong to nature, they're immune to poisons). Dragon is supereffective on Steel and Psychic and resists not only Fire, Water, Grass and Electric but also Steel. It's resisted by Fighting instead. Fairy is resisted by Bug, Psychic and Ghost, does no damage on Grass, and is weak to Bug and Psychic.
Times like these make me respect Gamefreak for how well they balance their types. Normal becomes even worse, it looks like you tried your best to make ice as overpowered as possible. Super effective against 6 types, only two weaknesses, and 4 resistances that make an ice/fire or an ice/dragon type busted. So much for the weakest type defensively. Also, ice-eroding rock is an argument for being super effective against it, not a resistance, rock is a harder material that shatters ice regardless, same with fighting. Dragon is also buffed for no reason. Also, why is dark weak against electricity? It's the evil type, not literal darkness. And even then, wouldn’t electricity make light in the darkness? Electric types make their own electricity, blackouts aren’t a problem
@@goldfishsandwich9737 Dark needs to be boosted. It's too similar to Ghost offensively (though it's also resisted and weak to Fairy, making Dark pale compared to Ghost) and they must be made more different
@@goldfishsandwich9737 Normal is not worse: as an offensive type, it's unwallable unless you have a Ghost, since it hits everything neutrally except it.
@@goldfishsandwich9737 I'd make ice no longer resistant to rock, it could still be weak to it, but it still needs to be supereffective on it and water due to erosion and freezing. Also, ice weak to fighting makes no sense.
@@vittoriopugliese3352 Dark is doing great right now and doesn't need a buff. The only type to both resist and be super effective against Psychic and Ghost. Making it a valuable type. Being immune to prankster is also great. Their moves are great, too. Such as Sucker Punch, Snarl, and Knock off. Also not sure why you're talking about balancing now when you made ice super effective against six types, and only weak to two. The Fire type is also untouched. An already strong type that is made better by you nerfing its weaknesses, (rock water ground) and buffing its counters. (bug grass ice) This Normal is Terrible defensively. Will hurt slow and bulky Normal types severely. Such as Snorlax, Blissey, Porygon 2, Ursaluna, and Farigiraf. The strongest Normals. No one is using normal for coverage when they can just use moves that are super effective against their weaknesses, such as ghost, (no single typing resists both ghost and normal.) or fighting for Rock and Steel. There is no benefit for a Pokemon to be normal, except to get three weaknesses that far outweigh one immunity. Still doesn't solve how overpowered ice is. Especially with the powerful snow environment which boosts defense. And Fighters would easily break ice compared to rock, and steel. Also, ice melts faster in water. A bit more has to be said too about this. For one, Bugs aren’t immune to poisons. Insecticides and other pest control products are poisonous, Spiders and Scorpions are venomous to weaken and melt the insides of insect prey. You could use that same reason for Dragon resisting Steel to make Fairy resist Steel. Poison would weaken a fighter. Magic is very real in the Pokemon universe, so that shouldn’t be a reason psychic is good against fairy. Dragon should just resist elemental types. Normal should be resisted by steel the average Joe can not break through steel. There are honestly way too many different types of matchups, making it complicated.
If we aren't making a "rebalancing", but a full reboot instead, I actuallu believe it would be much better to remove all the "wierd" interactions. Like Bug vs Dark... I never understood that...
Here's a different proposal for the Steel Type: I like the idea of it being an all or nothing type in defense. Weaknesses to Water, Electric, Fire, Fighting and Ground, but resists all other types and is immune to poison. That way, there's careful thought into type coverage and in dual types.
@@goldfishsandwich9737 In that scenario, I'd give Water a weakness to Poison, and Rock a resistance to Electric. Poison is based around pollution and toxins, which spread significantly easier through water than ground or air. And If Ground is immune to Electric because it grounds the electricity, I don't get why Rock shouldn't at least resist it for the same reasons, plus it gives Rock, Steel, and Ground all different interactions in extremes with Electric.
Ill be honest, i dont really agree with a lot of this rework at all. As ive seen from the comments, people want Ice to resist Dragon. Id like that, as it actually gives a good buff to Ice types. I also agree with Psychic and Dark being weak against Bug to buff the currently terrible type, but id prevent Psychic from being an immunity. Dark is already immune to it, and Psychic is good enough as it is to be able to at least hit Bug types. Also, while making Poison super effective on Bug makes sense, i feel like it could sway Poison just a little too far. Yeah, it only hits 3 types super effectively here, but considering Poison is more of a defensive type than offensive i wouldnt want to change it too much anyways. Now on to the big ones. Fairy. Dont change it at all, but give it 1 more weakness. Making it weak to Bug instead of resisting it is good enough for me, and it would further buff Bug into being a good type while nerfing the currently OP Fairy type thats barely kept in check by shallow movepools and few holders of the type. Next, Steel. To me its ok, but having just 1 more resistance or weakness is good for me. Honestly a Sound type would be perfect, but the next closest thing is, like in your chart, Electric. I can agree with it, making a mediocre type do well against the best defensive type in the game. Now for the problem i have: in your chart, Fairy isnt weak to it. Steel is a defensive type and not offensive by any means, but Fairy does need something to nerf it, and slapping on a ton of weaknesses actually can make it worse. Thats why i said to keep it the same with a Bug weakness; we dont want what happened to Dragon to repeat itself. And being weak to 3 types, including Steel, actually give them more of an offensive presence. And its something Steel would need in todays meta. Finally, Normal. Its good purely because of how its STAB can hit about anything and its coverage pool is usually quite extensive. However, as many probably agree, it needs just a little more of a presense, especially defensively. Maybe make Bug weak to it, idk. It could bring down the slightly more powerful Bug type now. But defensively, i think it should resist Bug. At the very least it deserves a resistance, and doesnt exactly need to be super effective against anything. But resisting Bug can actually keep a buffed Bug type in check, and maybe they could have unique interactions where a Normal move does a bit more damage to Bug types if the Bug moved first. Its like a reflex; you swing your arm hard to hit a mosquito thats trying to feast on your blood much harder to ensure its killed. Its a normal reflex, hence why Normal would have this interaction with Bug
Honestly. Fairy doesnt need to be immune to dragon and itd still be op according to some folks. My main concern with the type chart is that ice as a type is always a strictly negative change to a pokemon, your change slightly improves it yeah
it just doesn't make sense for water to be strong against rock and ground it should be the other way around earth should be strong against water because rocks and soil absorb and contains water and water should also be weak to ice not resist it because ice freezes water
It only absorbs yet it's still water doesn't change the chemical formula of water. Unlike weathering of rocks by water can change the chemical composition of rocks
On the idea of perfect imbalance and how it affects the metagame dynamics: We're gradually experimenting with this with Fire-types. Fire-types were considered a bad type generations ago, but that all started to change with the introduction of Fairy-types. Fairy-types were designed to balance out Dragon-types, which were too strong. Soon Fairy-types became the most powerful type, which led to Steel-types starting to emerge as a counterpoint. In the last few generations, Steel established itself as the best type, but now in Generation IX, Fire-types have emerged as a counter to Steel-types with the bonus of resisting Fairy-types, making them a good type in the metagame. I predict that by Generation X, we'll see Ground-types emerging as an answer to Fire-types and Steel-types, and then Water-types as an answer to Ground-types and Fire-types, etc.
Bug and water should be weak to poison because of pesticides and pollution respectively Ice should resist ground because glaciers travel the ground and take parts of the ground with it Ghost should not resist bug Ice should hit rock super effectively as a reference to weathering by ice freezing inside of rocks and breaking them If rock and ground merge then they should be called Earth type
A type related move I made is Yin and Yang, a normal special move with 80 base power. It affects everyone on the field, and reverses their affinities. (So, Fairy would be weak to dragon and Grass would resist bug)
Steel is super effective against fairy because in European cultures especially the main way of dealing with the supernatural is with iron, because it symbolises industrialism and the disconnect that forms from nature as humanity progresses technologically. This can be seen best in how werewolves are weak to silver bullets. Great video and I appreciate lots of the changes you suggested. I personally always wondered why fighting wasn’t either super effective or resistant to itself and seeing you change that made me finally able to be at peace
ok sorry for nitpicking but its silver bullets not steel bullets, atleast from the werewolf stories ive seen/heard
@@chisei8282 yes but fairy is iron, its not the werewolf type after all
@@chisei8282 Silver is still a metal, same as Iron. Logic still applies, Steel is kind of a misnomer for the type, the TCG really had it right, Metal is a more appropriate title.
No it represents industrialization which kills nature which is what fairy represebts
Silver bullets come from a story of a man who melted down an inherited silver icon of the Virgin Mary to make bullets to kill an unkillable dog-monster that was thought to be sent by Satan. It wasn't the metal, not even the silver, it was that the bullets were made of a holy icon that made them effective. Over time, all that mattered became the silver itself as the original story became forgotten and replaced. It's completely disconnected from the fairy and iron thing, which is a pre-Christian idea.
5:30 One interesting thing is that with this loop, you can actually have a loop within a loop. Rock, Fire, and Steel create a loop with each other, but also all 3 are simultaneously strong against Ice and weak against Ground. This could potentially be used for some neat gameplay tricks, such as a first gym that's ground type, and encouraging the player to search a snowy forrest or mountain for counters to said ground types!
sounds like some of the Fire Emblems’ magic triangles, where Light
Bugs have historically always required our best poisons to kill, if it _can_ kill a bug, it *WILL* kill everything else.
And even those tend to eventually fail as Bugs develop to become resistant to it.
Is this bait? Nicotine is a pesticide, but humans can inhale it for decades. Your house can get fumigated monthly and you wouldn't even notice.
The effectiveness of poison basically depends on how small your body is, and they work very easily on bugs because they're so tiny.
@@_WhiteMage Not bait, just raging to the heavens about toxin resistant bugs.
@@_WhiteMage considering that cockroaches alone can resist and even survive toxic nuclear wastes while we develop cancers I say yeah that makes sense.
@@techstuff9198 this is just making me imagine maggots or cockroaches with a smoking addiction
Me and a friend were talking about making Normal super-effective against Fairy. From a mechanics side, normal deserves a super effective offense and fairy could stand to have a third weakness. From flavor side, the way we see it, normal is like "the real world" which starkly denies fairy tales. Making a Normal pokemon essentially a rebuttal to the existence of Fairies
@mandu9979 the argument could be made, but if we are going off of a flavor thing, it would make more sense for steel types to be super effective against dragons as well, because like, knights in shining armor, whereas normal types I'd say are fine as neutral both ways since the average person could potentially be a threat to a dragon given the right circumstances.
going off of the Fae, Fairy would be super effective against Normal lol
Make dragon weak to bug just because
Hell I believe in one of the Peter Pan remakes the fairy almost died when the pirate complained he doesn't believe in fairies.
@@DivineXDiamond because fuck dragons I guess lmao
One element to this I think folks that suggest a starter type trio change up underestimate is player psychology. Simply put, I don't think any of the other trio loops are as player intuitive as fire/grass/water especially for the younger and or newbie side of the player-base. Like sure the Elekid, Smoochum, and Magby trio used in romhacks like FireRed Omega works for the older skewing demographics of that scene but I'm skeptical that setup makes it out of focus testing/play testing for a mainline game with the financial expectations of AAA franchise that has to have a broad appeal.
Yeah, nothing else is intuitive or A-list like plant , water, fire. Then again, I remember learning that grass is super effective to water and thinking it dosent make intuitive sense. Just because plants drink water dosent mean they are good at defrosting water
I really don't think any game with only 3 types could really be considered a Pokemon game anymore. Games with only a single triangular perfect loop just end up pushing the strongest stat sticks to the top anyways, which is ideally something elemental weaknesses and resistances should be discouraging. It would also shut out dual types from the game and any access to coverage moves would sort of defeat the purpose of a perfect triangle and make speed and power the unequivocal best.
The reduced type numbers and lack of dual types in the TCG could be an interesting starting point. The way they handle weaknesses, resistances and the occasional immunity reminds me of more standard JRPGs where each enemy might have their own unique spread, with general rules for certain classes/species. I'm not sure that's particularly helpful or a direction I want pokemon to go in, but it could be an example of how to scale down various systems in the game, such as going from 4 to 2 moves, to accommodate a smaller chart.
That being said, I do like the idea of limited types by game (Especially with spinoffs. Gates to Infinity and Pokemon Conquest had very limited rosters and obvious winners from lack of counters) and even an expanded type-chart to add into the rotation.
Also, you highlighted Ground is neutral to Ground at 12:35, meanwhile Ground hitting Rock neutrally is not marked. Good thing you covered every type's changes in full later!
The high prevalence of certain type pairings is also worth noting for type changes, such as Poison/Grass being 4x resistant to Fairy and now having dual-STAB coverage for any secondary typing on a Fairy. (Although, in general, getting four extra weaknesses is already pretty damning, especially since you point out Grass is one of the most common types.) Rock/Ground types can cheer for losing one of their 4x weaknesses. I agree with Bugs getting a much needed buff (and Poison too, since their main selling point is Fairy coverage and defending against the status), and curiously I don't think there's any major implications for Poison/Bug types.
Flying/Normal stayed exactly the same too XD
Yeah I don't think a just 3 type game would be much good, hence why I didn't focus on it for too long, for the reasons you stated. I would be really interested to see a 9 type spin-off. Plenty for duel types while being a shorter game that still keeps the strategies varied!
Great note about how some duel pairings are really common, even this aspect throws balance through another turn around well after you have made the adjustments to the chart.
I never got why steel doesn't resist fighting, armor literally exists so that you can take less damage from physical attacks, taking extra damage because you put on armor makes no sense
the equivalent of a simple physical attack would be normal, which steel resists. Fighting is more about martial arts, which have the mystic and legend of making someone so strong to be able to crush metals
@@lucasrxrxx1859 no martial art is strong enough to crush industrial steel, rocks definitely but not steel
@@Fr00stee ikr? they should also get rid of the fairy type, fairies don't even exist
@@lucasrxrxx1859With that in mind, we should also get rid of Psychics, Ghosts, and Dragons as those don't exist.
@@lucasrxrxx1859also the dragon type, it's also fake. While we're at it why not remove psychic type also because psychics are all frauds?
I like some of these ideas but I think it might focus a bit too much on the big picture. For individual types, you kinda want their matchups to reflect their nature and there was probably opportunities to examine the type concepts in isolation to determine what could help flesh out a type's personality.
You made fighting resist itself but what if you made it weak against itself instead to evoke recklessness and competition in fighting types going toe-to-toe? You could also bring out the warrior archetype in them by having them be super effective against dragons.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I also didn't spot any attempts to make two types super effective against one another - candidates for that could be ghost and psychic: mortals trying to master the supernatural and the supernatural in turn proving how dangerous that ambition is. Fire and ice are also self explanatory candidates for this, but maybe also steel and electric.
Of course you can also make resistances add to a type's personality. Steel is the obvious one but bug also gets a shoutout for resisting fighting and ground, the two types with a reputation for reliably hitting most targets at least neutrally, which gives bug that sense of a pest you can't fight conventionally.
I like the broad structuring of these type loops but I think there's some work you can do to have the macro details work in concert with the micro details. What should it feel like to play a particular type? Gen 1 set an arguably ugly precedent of using base stats and moves to answer this question: rocks feel bulky because all the rock types have high defense, bugs feel weak because we made them all weak. As the generations have gone on and pokemon within a type diversified, you don't really feel that same sense of belonging between Golem and, say, Lycanroc. Moves and stats flesh out individuals but I don't think it should carry the weight of a whole type, yknow?
12:40 This is very interesting. Very interesting choice not to make them all balance to 0. When I did it myself I made them all balance to 0, and only kept interactions that make sense. It was quite a job.
0:10 complicated
OMG finally someone mentions an ooze/slime type! It's my favourite idea for a new type
I think Dragon might be a bit of a problem now. With Fairy no longer being immune to it and both Fairy and Steel getting much weaker it seems incredibly powerful offensively. At the bare minimum I would make Psychic resist it, as it was already bad and this new type chart just hurts it even more.
I've maintained for a long time that Ice should get a Dragon resist. Helps patch up the "glass cannon" quality of the type and also gives another way to check dragons, who are most frequently high-power mons.
@@DarthMohawk1 i was about to say the same thing. Ice could really use the boost and it would actually give it a niche where it works well
also dragon resists all the starter types which is just annoying
@@log3ckert386that’s kind of the point with Dragon though, of the five “elemental types,” Dragon resists the three/four starter types, with Ice, the once lategame elemental type, being the one to beat it. It’s designed as an endgame type, one that you can’t just bulldoze with your starter.
Fire got fairy as a resist for two reasons:
1. Fairy is already one of the best types in the game. It needs more resists
2. Fire is very weak defensively compared to water and grass. It would benefit from getting a defense boost. Not according to the type chart, but when you factor in the pokemons and moves in the game. Stealth Rock straight up makes some mons unviable, earthquake is extremely common and one of the strongest attack in the game. Being a fire type is often a negative, when Game Freak meant it to be a mostly balanced type like water or grass
Bug is my favorite type and i'm happy to see it getting some buffs!
Rock and ground being different types was such a smart decision
3:15 What I got from this video: fairy type is 10 years old. I have yet to play any Pokemon game with fairy type in it. I'm old. Only Kanto exists leave me alone!
Clefairy is an actual fairy now!
I’ve been wanting to figure out what type triangles could be for every type so this video was practically made for me!
This is so awesome!
I really wanna play a game using your Pokémon chart.
Grass Poison Ground is still my favourite loop in pokemon
It's not the most intuitive, but poison and ground do feel like they fit the starter vibe better than fire.
I really like the Fairy's resistance to Ground, in reference to Faerie Forts and Fey Traps.
This helps me think about how to manage my own typing system. Think I got it figured out now actually. With Sound/Ohm, God, and Nothing being the big debalancers, it should be perfectly balanced within the wheel, and perfectly imbalanced as a whole system. (God & Nothing are always monotype. God makes Sound, Sound fills the Nothing, Nothing beats God)
I would add Mammal/Fish/Bird/Humanoid/and other categories to Dragon/Fairy/Bug/Ghost and they would become the defensive typings, while the classic elements would stay as attacks with Magic attacks become Magic, light replacing Fairy attacks, Bug attacks being retyped along with most ghost attacks just becoming dark.
Pokemon get a species type and up to 2 elemental types. This would let Trapinch/Vibrava be Bug species but ground + Ground/flying, with Flygon being Dragon species and Ground/Flying offensive types.
yes i agree that electric types shouldn't be weak to ground i can under stand ground being immune but it doesn't disrupt electricity it makes a lot more sense for electric types to be weak to fire, water or ice because those elements disrupts electrical circuits
Im making a fangame
Adding a water resisted by ice and fairy weak to bug to nerf and buff respective types
This is along with an adjustment to scald to bring it in line with freeze dry although an overhaul could be cool for a hardcore version of my fangame, solely to make it so people have more thinking and to balance the type chart around my games specific progression
I've thought it be interesting if some regions had thier own interpretation of type chart. Like maybe some regions combine ice and water into a single type or maybe a region where they don't consider normal and ghost real types, thinking of them as Like states of being. Or one that uses a a pokemon personality as the deciding factor like a righteous or a intelligent type (maybe classification would be better word).
There is one other loop that already exists being ice ground and rock though it’s understandable to over look it
I actually have some ideas for the reasonings for the Ghost-Dragon-Fairy loop:
Fairy beats Dragon because of the classic Good beats Evil trope. The classic story needs its happy ending.
Ghost beats Fairy because of Fairy's ties to nature, and Ghost's lack thereof. By being the inverse of life while still being able to affect it, Ghosts are not affected heavily by the life-based Fairy.
Dragon beats Ghost because of the Ghost type's need for fear. Dragons, being large, imposing apex predators, needn't fear much. If a Ghost (or anyone else) would mess with their stuff, they'd just burn them to a crisp. I also like a headcanon that dragon flames specifically can vaporize ghosts, just to solidify the trope.
Anyway, the typechart seems rlly logical overall, great video!
Fairy beating Dragon due to good vs evil doesn't really make sense either. There's plenty of stories of Fairies making people dance till their feet bleed or worse. And there's plenty stories about dragons be troves of knowledge or on the side of the hero
@zeestar0112 fair enough. What would you suggest then?
Squirtle terrified of a leaf on his head is hilarious.
A desert region could have grass and water or a grass/water pokemon (mythic or legendary even) of an oasis pokemon. Which makes me think about a mirage pokemon...
Very good video! Keep it up!
I like the idea of this video, but I feel many of the changes to fairy type ignore the true nature of fae folk. The grimmsnarl line has shown that fairy type is in fact, not fairies in the modern understanding. Peter Pan's Tinkerbell is what may come to mind upon hearing "fairy". Grimmsnarl however shows that the fairy type has much more to do with true fairies, fae folk. Fae folk originate from multiple European folklore, Celtic especially comes to mind.
Fae folk are, put lightly, bastards. They will steal the lives of adults and children. Kidnapping, killing, even turning humans into fae folk. Fae folk are creatures of mischief and pranks and will stop at nothing to make your life hell if you've wronged them.
The grass type may be the bodies of the plants, but they in no way encompass nature as a whole. Put simply, fae folk would not be harmed by nature. They ARE nature.
This is part of why steel type is effective against fairy type. The creations of man trample the beauty of nature.
Fairy type being fae folk also provides an explanation for fairy type not being very effective against fire. Nature adapts to fire, but is powerless against it.
I disagree with your opening monologue about there not being a good reason to combine some of the types. From a game-design perspective, types should be intuitive, umbrella genuses. Dark & Ghost, and Ground & Rock, are very difficult to distinguish conceptually, which leads to confusion and a difficulty in remembering weaknesses and strengths. It'd be easy to get this down to 15 or 16 types, which is already a lot.
Grass should be resistant to Rock because plants can grow in rocks. And Ground should be weak to Flying.
I keep thinking Normal type is basically the regular individuals who mind their live like other, thus when they meet a bulky brawlly bullies (Fighting type) they will be no match, though these individuals can retaliate.
Normal individuals cannot move mountain (Rock) but they can learn to dig it
Normal individuals cannot bend machine (Steel) but fire can
Super natural stuff such as spectre (Ghost), in normal individuals mind, is considered not exist, so did supernatural stuff unable to haunt normal individuals, because the same reason
Fairy, however (this will be interesting), is like dream and fantasy, our childhood, something the normal individuals used to dream off.
They used to believe that giant fire-breathing monster (Dragon) cannot hurt their mighty sefl as a hero of fantasy (Fairy)
They also used to believed they resisted the magic of wicked evil witch (Dark), and defeating the said witch
However, these individuals grows older and have to follow the norms (Normal), which abandoned their fantasy
They grow disbeliving their happy fantasy, the norm and rule (Normal) for being normal resisted the fantasy (Fairy) from their mind, making it felt like a mere beautiful little dream, a fiction of a child.
Thus, I have present you the argument of why Normal type should resist Fairy type, as well as why Normal type should deal super effective against Fairy type.
Thank you 😂😂
i think what would be more interesting than changing around the weaknesses/resistances, would be to change the modifier. so instead of double damage, a super effective hit does 1.5 or even 1.3. so it's less a game of type matchups and more about other strategies and having to know what every pokemon is good at.
there was a pokemon fangame creator which I will keep unnamed, that had a big chip on their shoulder about making sure that people used specific strategies to beat the gyms/'boss battles' and every time a player would talk about finding an alternative strat, she'd edit the game code to make it impossible 😂😂😂😂trying to create a 'perfect balance' aka making the game worse
I honestly would remove Rock and leave ground, since they so similar and Rock has a horrible problem with "Too many weaknesses".
And well... Honestly the problem with the rest is that there are too many types that just serve to break through the ones that seem broken before, the whole Dark type seems unnecessary to me for existing since Ghost had the purpose of countering psychics, same with bug.
But the Pokemon associated with them back in Gen 1 were not using their type attacks because they were mostly bad or not offensive options.
I would remove Dark as well.
Psychic Fighting Bug
I wish there was a rom hack with these typings.
Only change I’d make would be to take away the grass advantage on fairy. I get your reasoning but fae and nature almost always work well together but if you argue that if nature were to turn against it, it would be super effective than the same should be said if fae turned against nature. So I would either have them be neutral against each other both ways. Or super effective both ways
I would remove a lot of types. Pretty much half
I would still like if ice, and bug types were better
Yeah, I don’t like it. You destroyed fairy type - arguably the strongest offensive type -, made psychic the new bug, and reintroduced the problem of dragons being unstoppable that fairies were created to solve. And that’s just a superficial analysis from a intuitive understanding as a veteran VGC player.
A video about starter maybe?
Ah not likely sorry. Really all I have to say about starters is that they should rotate types around... which is basically what this episode is about.
If I was a character artist I would *love* to dive into designing new starters for new type loops for sure!
Instead of making Fire and Ice neutral towards each other, I think I would make them super effective against each other. That's a unique interaction that we don't have yet. Bug and Fighting resist each other but no two types are super effective towards each other. And to buff Ice a little, I would make Ice be immune to itself since that is also something that no other type does.
I love that Bug is immune to Psychic, it makes sense. And removing Steel's resistance and Dark's immunity are also great ideas to make Psychic just a bit better
Bug and Poison were super-effective on each other in Gen 1.
@@NitroIndigo It makes sense why Poison is good against Bug but not the other way around. Good that it was changed
it makes no sense to eliminate dark's immunity to psychic. Fear inhibit's the mind and dark is the strongest form of fear hence the immunity. bug should resist psychic but not be immune to it because an insect's mind is far smaller compared to a human mind plus insects are a common form of fear albeit a weak form.
Fun fact: In the beta version of Gen II (which was available as a demo in Japan at certain events) Normal and Dark were super effective against each other (for some reason)
Also, fire and ice being strong against each other only really works if there is no water type
I’ve only ever seen that in games where water and ice are the same element
@@Deathnotefan97 So do you think Fire, Water and Ice could be a cool triangle? Just like the starter types except swap out Grass for Ice
I love the idea of Ice, Poison, Electric, Dark as it would represent CMYK to Fire, Grass, Water's RGB!
omg youre right :D
The hell is CMYK
@@shadowprince4620 its a color model using cyan, magenta, yellow and black! It is the additive counterpart to RGB’s subtractive type of color model. CMYK is mostly used in color printing.
@maybeaferret7877 why is black represented by K? I gathered the others from the original comment but I couldn't think of any colors starting with K. Is it just to differentiate it from Blue?
@@curt367 I Looked it up and apparently it is meant to represent key or keyplate! A printing term that meant the plate that held the most detail, most often being black!
I actually love the lack of perfect loops in the type chart. I think the asymmetry of Pokémon is great and truly valuable to the health of the game. Having imperfect loops makes them each feel different as types rather than a reskin of the fire water grass. Cool video!
2:36 See, there's a reason why Pokémon doesn't need any new types, even outside of a game design/balance perspective. Every one of these concepts (aside from maybe ooze) is already represented by a currently existing type
Magic: Fairy, and sometimes Psychic
Acid: Poison
Void: Dark
Crystal: Rock
Divine: Fairy again
The vast majority of things that could be made into types are either already represented by a type or are already an existing archetype of move like sound
What do you think comes next to sounding like a real type that could be added?
@mandu9979Another new type could be a Cosmic type focused on outer space and quantum physics.
@mandu9979that could fall under electric type as I can’t name something digital without it being based off of electricity
@@brandonvelde5774Cosmic is represented by physic by most of the 20 or so Pokémon. It wouldn’t be viable.
@@FireFoxie1345 Would it though? Psychic is more about the mind and the supernatural.
Really liked the changes and would be cool to see this happening in a real pokémon game. The idea of grass being weak against dark doesn't feel right to me. I think the dark type suffers a lot from the way its name has been translated. The dark type is to be intended as the evil and mischevious type and not as the "abscence of light" type ahaha but that's was just your idea and everything else was very good!
While I understand that as the evil type Dark generally focuses on brutal and savage or mischievous or underhanded attacks I'd say that having darkness & Shadow based attacks as a manifestation of evil isn't a bad thing given the human perception of darkness being evil. If ghost can have shadow based attacks why not the evil type? It's no different from multiple different types having light-based attacks.
@@leafdragoon8551 they have in dark pulse and such and that's completely fine maybe they are a mix of both evil and darkness but again dark pulse for example is said to be aura imbued with dark thoughts not specifically darkness sooo
Yeah this is fair, Dark isn't so much the "absence of light" but I guess I was just taking Pokemon's, at times, wishy-washy definitions of things :P
@@RadioactiveMagicGames I don't blame you ahaha! Some dark pokémon such as Darkrai may suggest darkness and gloominess but if you look closely you can see that they all are malicious and mean beings. What about ghost types? They are more evocative in that sense and the move night shade is a clear sign ghosts draw power from pitch black nights and darkness.
At first i thought Dark was super effective against Grass lol. But after learning it was more of an immoral type and not just "no light" im ok with Dark being neutral on Grass. Plus Grass gets a lot of hate with how many weaknesses it has and how little of an offensive presence it is
Interestingly, you actually removed a perfect loop in grass, ground, poison. I'm not against that change, I'm just pointing it out.
I like the idea of some games using less types, since it'll mess with the meta for that specific game without having to make knock on changes. I could see a tropical island region that has a volcano in the middle, leading to a lack of ice types. Or a cavernous region that has few flying and grass types.
1. I can't believe I missed this loop. I should have talked about it.
2. It's *almost* a perfect loop since ground doesn't resist itself like the other two do, however, it is so close to a perfect loop that yeah, I should have mentioned it... So here is what I would have said!
"I'm going to mess up this loop in my own edits instead of enforcing it and I don't really mind doing that. The reason being, Grass is already in its own perfect loop and I would like to avoid doubling up as much as possible."
@@RadioactiveMagicGames In a similar vein, Fire/Steel/Rock is also currently a perfect loop aside from Rock not resisting itself. I always imagined some generation with a thematic of Environmentalism vs Industrialism, with one game having a Grass/Ground/Poison trio and the other having a Fire/Steel/Rock trio, then with a third version that had a classic Fire/Grass/Water trio, though the idea of alternative starter towns within a single game as you described here would likely be a better implementation for such a concept.
"I could see a tropical island region that has a volcano in the middle, leading to a lack of ice types."
Hoenn says hi :P
Once again, water is still too powerful as a starter type, just slap an ice beam on it and you have only one weakness, and if you are water/ground with swift swim, well lol good luck. Fire is still too weak, all three of its vulnerabilities are common as heck with stealth rocks, earthquake, and way too many strong water types everywhere. Solution: make poison and dragon super effective against water. Poison: oil and sludge contaminating water supplies and killing off most life is very common nowadays, as for dragon, well in japan, dragons are masters of water. Otherwise amazing video, you deserve more views and subscribers.
Dragon being super effective against water is stupid unless we're also going to make dragons super effective against every type (if it exists, there's a dragon in some mythology that controls it)
As someone who exclusively cares about fixing the typechart for competitive pokemon purposes, and is wholly indifferent to the typechart's effect on mainline games-many of these changes have drastic domino effects that would be disastrous for competitive pokemon. By "disastrous" of course what I mean is that your changes would cause the pool of viable pokemon who even "exist" in the first place (i.e.: have any reason to treat like they even exist at all) to shrink to a fraction of what it is now. Alot of this comes from the fact that buffing a type's offensive capacity doesn't really buff that pokemon as much as it does buff the most defensively-sound pokemon that know moves of that type. Making fairy type weak to bug type doesn't make bug type pokemon much stronger-but DOES make fairy type pokemon afraid of every non-bug type pokemon out there that learns U-Turn. Buffing a type's defensive capacity goes alot further to actually make types stronger. Here are some examples of some of the negative effects your proposed changes might create:
For example, fire types being weak to stealth rock by itself means that fire type pokemon are among the worst of the worst from the get-go-and have a ton of trouble just existing. Most of the time their fairy resistance is the only thing giving them a competitive use-case that even lets whatever other advantages a given fire type might have be explored in the first place-and even then if a fire type pokemon isn't the single best fire type available its not worth the stealth rock weakness to even consider. Worsening fire defenses even further by removing the very valuable fairy resistance-without an even more significant buff to compensate-is akin to deleting all fire type pokemon from the game.
Ground type pokemon are most-of-the-time absolutely terrible, having only three resistances and weaknesses to quite possibly all three of the most common attacking types in the game. Other than ground types like Landorus, Great Tusk, or Excadrill that are paired with such strong secondary typings and are given such strong utility to justify the risk being ground type comes with-ground types never even see the light of day. The one thing giving it a use-case despite being an atrocious typing overall is its offensive capacity. I see you modestly improved their defense ability, but since they were already at a deficit it is nerfing an already struggling type.
There were a handful of other such changes, but mostly along these lines. As someone who theorycrafts type chart changes ALOT, one thing i've learned is that adding or removing weaknesses is a very volatile means of rebalancing types with the most dramatic domino effect. Its generally better to rebalance by simply adding or removing resistances. And even then, removing resistances can be volatile. A good tool is to keep track of every possible combination of the 18 types and see if your changes have increased or decreased the number of those combinations with 5 or more weaknesses and/or double weaknesses. If you have, its probably time to go back to the drawing board a bit. But then again, our goals are vastly different from one another so there's also that-but I can't help but wonder if there might be some venn diagram overlap between our two goals.
This is a super interesting post from the perspective of someone who no longer plays Pokémon, but watches a lot of VGC competitive format, where entry hazards are non-existent in the meta, so fire types are fairly common.
this looks like bait ngl. it's not like having a bad type invalidates a pokemon from being good, looking at you tyranitar, and saying ground types are terrible? have you considered that the reason ground is weak to common, powerful types is that a large part of why those types are common and powerful is because they're good against ground types? getting free switches against electric moves is invaluable, especially when it comes to volt switch, and don't brush off stab. yeah fire types hate stealth rocks but acting like volcarona will suddenly be PU if it doesn't check magearna for the month before it gets banned is hyperbolic.
@@ILiekFishes I was never trying to say that a bad type automatically invalidated a pokemon regardless of other factors, and trying to imply such sounds like you're either deliberately oversimplifying my argument in bad faith or blatantly misunderstood everything I was saying. My point is that a bad typing raises the bar of what that pokemon's other attributes (ability, movepool, etc) need to compensate for so goofy high that the deck is stacked heavily against 95% of pokemon of a given type. Ground type's electric immunity helps stuff like Landorus and Great Tusk, sure, but trying to imply that the type is perfectly balanced because of the immunity sounds as goofy as trying to say that Mudsdale or Sandslash are OU staples. Adding more offensive super-effective interactions, and removing resistances from types that already struggle defensively, dramatically decreases the number of type combinations that are good enough to not need goofy support to be viable. Instead of 25-40 OU viable pokemon in a given meta, you're shrinking the pool down to only a fraction of that.
Competitive autists are so annoying lol
Yeah, but the premise of the video was a series reboot. I feel like if the kind of reboot that redoes the entire typechart, would also come with a redo of learnsets. I also feel like entry hazards in general are overdue for a massive overhaul.
Some of the changes I felt were unneeded such as Fire not having any relationship with ice. Ice doing neutral damage to Fire (like in G1) is fine, but Fire not hitting it super effectively though? Things such as Electric dealing 1/2× to Rock while becoming strong against Steel, Fighting being resistant to itself are alright enuf though.
1 crucial thing u forgot to mention is traits & benefits a type can have: terrains, weather, Grass' immunity to Leech Seed & powder moves, abilities, movepools (Normal having tons of elemental coverage) & how good moves can be for a certain type (Scald for Water-types, Draco Meteor for Dragon), Ghosts can't be trapped starting with G6, moves that a said type can usually get (Water-types being blessed with Ice moves, Dragons typically get Fire moves), rarity of a type (as u mentioned Grass being quite common), & so much more. There's a lot to consider when balancing the type chart & I think u did a ok job. Hard to say how balanced it's in practice by just looking at it.
It has never made sense to me that Steel isn't weak to Electric...the logic behind Water being weak to Electric applies just as well to Steel.
Also how the heck do you only have triple digit subscribers? Your content is absolutely fantastic, very thoughtful and incredibly edited. You're a real hidden gem and you've got yourself a new subscriber :)
Thank you so much :D
I see this everywhere, but Steel shouldn't be weak to Electric. Do you know why electric cables are made of metal? It's because electricity passing through it doesn't have any long term damage, while passing electricity through water will pretty much kill anything in it.
The big difference is that Steel type Pokémon are almost all just giants hunks of metal, while almost every Water type is a fish, or other aquatic creature.
So run an electric current through a metal pipe and one through an aquarium and tell me which lasts longer, because I'll bet you anything that the metal pipe can take it all day long.
@@dillonsomerville4729 Ah! But! In the real world we don't have animals that are made of metal or live in/amongst it.
If you want to make a fair comparison then you would compare the conductivity of water without any life in it.
How can you know for sure that electricity running through a metal *organism* wouldn't do lots of damage to it?
Since we are creatures made of mostly of water and we know that water *can* conduct electricity AND by doing so it does damage, we can extrapolate that a creature made of metal (with even greater conductivity than water) could take even greater damage!
@@RadioactiveMagicGames Plants are also water based life forms. According to your logic, why isn't Grass also weak to Electric?
I'd say either make both Steel and Grass weak to Electric, or make neither.
@@dillonsomerville4729 you got me there! :P
This misses most of the themes and conceptual reasons behind type matchups, fails to create interesting spots with full immunities or double-effective matchups, and nobody who says "scissors paper rock" in that order can be trusted.
my biggest beef with the fairy type was always that it was immune to dragon instead of just resisting it. with how common fairy type is, in my opinion, it nerfs dragons too much.
dragons were always supposed to be insanely powerful and hard to obtain. that's why the majority of dragon types pre gen 6 were legendaries and pseudo legendaries. i understand that since there ended up being so many across all the generations, they wanted to nerf it, but the solution should have been maybe not letting it resist so many things, and giving it one or two offensive weaknesses while making sure to keep dragons hard to obtain. if someone goes through the effort of catching a dratini and raising it into a dragonite, gosh dang it that dragonite should be able to touch a hecking clefairy. that is all.
12:36 psychic has no effect on bug, interesting. Why is Bug super on fairy?
Fairy is a spirit of nature. It should not be harmed by Plants or Bugs. Also why is fairy weak to ghost? It should be the other way around due to fairies being spirits of life and spring.
Interesting that Dragon is strong against dark. I can’t imagine a logical reason though.
Psychic has no effect on bug: Insectophobia
Bugs eat plant.
Ghosts can scare fairies.
And Dragons live in dark caves.
@@exaltedfalcheon1793
Why would all dragons live in dark caves xD
@@l.n.3372 to be left alone.
Fighting is called the Hero type in Japanese and so it's why it interacts badly with the pure Fairies. Same thing for the Dark type that is actually called Evil type there.
Fact check: You are correct concerning the Dark Type, but the Fighting type in Japanese is called かくとうタイプ, which translates to "hand-to-hand fighting" type.
Hero form Palafin not being fighting type was a missed opportunity if true
@@KeitaroHirochibut the reason it beats evil aka dark is because the fighting type also represents justice so if fairy is supposed to be good magic or something there shouldn't be a clash between them and justice
@@rgmoses2189i’m sure they agree, it was just a note on the translation mistake
If you want to be technical about it, Water should be immune to electric, because water is actually a perfect insulator. It's the impurities in the water that make it conduct.
If you want to get technical about it, the only perfect insulator is a perfect vacuum.
@@timothyscheneman1689void/space type? Lol
I don't think any of the water represented in Pokemon is distilled.
@@chaotickreg7024 a new fire/water mon with Volt Absorb because it's boiling and distilling its own water to be immune? Or at least resist?
@@dresdenlancer9012 There could definitely be a boiling water pokemon with electric resist, I could see that. Or it could based on holy water, maybe it filters another way, idk.
I’ve literally always start ghost dragon and fairy was such an interesting type circle. Not only are they just amazing and cool times that often result in some pretty interesting designs but there’s almost a theme of fairytales and whimsical supernatural creatures when you put them all together, and in a way that really fitting for Pokémon but it’s also very different so you could lean into like a folklore aspect. Unseen, fairies, playing tracks, ghost, howling in the wind, and legends of dragons, hidden within the wild of your hometown.
12:34 I would be interested in seeing a rom hack with these changes and see if this would overly change so much to the meta.
Welp now dragon is the most broken type by a landslide since the only two types that switch well into it are now significantly weaker and it now has a new valuable resist in ghost typing. Ice being a little better doesn’t really help that much since ice types don’t resist Draco meteor spam.
Cynthia got a whole lot more dangerous again :D
Fire not beating ice just *feels* wrong on a core level, ngl
Fire melts ice into water, which beats fire.
Makes sense to me.
@@vegeta002 is an ice type pokemon good at manipulating water?
If i melted your gun into a pile of hot slag, hot slag is really dangerous, but you certainly can’t use it very effectively against me any more
@Arkouchie Ice is just frozen water, and ice attacks tend to freeze targets, while fire types tend to be very hot.
Encase the fire type in ice and that ice will be melted into water. Now you have a fire type doused in water, a devastating position to be in.
@@vegeta002 that doesn't make any sense as if the ice pokemon melted then it already lost, ice should be weak to fire
@@shubuman Ice coating a fire type has nothing to do with the pokemon using Ice Beam or whatever freezing move is used, so fire's effect on Ice is not relevant and was never the debate.
Ice in contact with a fire type is water, therefore fire should be weak to ice. It's literally the same as melting metal into molten slag and throwing it in someone's face.
I think this type chart is too out of whack. I don't think you considered the offensive interactions of sister types.
For exemple, trading Steel's ground weakness for an electric weakness is a huge buff. Not only does it give it a nich as a rare electric resist, but more way more importantly: You just make Steel not weak to EdgeQuake. One of the most common sister types.
Ground/Rock, Water/Ice, Electric/Ice/Fire (BoltBeam is the scary variation atm but no matter the changes keep in mind most mons with one of the punches/fangs get all 3 types), Fire/Grass, Dark/Ghost.
^A good type chart must take in mind the associations of types in move sets.
EdgeQuake: Ground is reliable but has frequent full immunities, while Rock has low accuracy and SR keeps x4 weak pkm away but it covers Ground's coverage.
Water/Ice: Ice is arguably the best offensive type, while water is arguably in the running for top 3 defensive types. Putting Ice on a water type is a cheat code that can't be too free to abuse in either building your mon or piloting it.
BoltBeam: Perfect coverage. Don't give it to mons with stab on either unless they are physical attackers. Keep the special attacks trio (with fire) the privilege of normal types. Give the punches and fangs more freely as those moves are worst and make contact. Be more willing to give the full trio from fangs than punches.
Fire/Grass; Sun can't be a free. It exists. It functionally boosts 2 type dmg with close to perfect cover in a way nearly comparable to a +2 boost without accounting for abilities.
Dark/Ghost: The "I might not murder you but I will cut you" perfect coverage.
9:50 hearing “scissors, paper, rock” instead of “rock, paper, scissors” was so jarring and made me uncomfortable 😣 Lol
Very well made video, deserves thousands more views than it currently has. Hope you get the recognition you deserve.
Hoping on the "You can justify anything for type advantages" bandwagon. My favorite thing to point out is fire boiling or evaporating water.
11:39 I think the narrative reasons behind type matchups are the single most important thing. Balancing should be considered only secondarily
Really liked grass having advantage over Fairy! tho complete advantage seems a bit much imo. I think Grass resisting Fairy is enough. I also completely agree with some other changes, like Ice resisting water or steel being weak to electric.
On the topic of electric, one idea that I like and have never seen mentioned is electric being super-effective against bug. Much like how poison could represent pesticides, electric could represent bug zapper lights and other such devices.
The Dark type in Pokemon is less actual darkness and more malice or evilness(and there's the common media trope of good guys always winning in the end, hence why Fighting, the type encompassing honor, and Fairy, the type encompassing good magics, both resist it). If you wanna buff it, I'd say make its interaction with Poison better(whether resisting it or being supereffective against it), with the reasoning of villains in media often being associated with illness and poisonings.
I'm gonna be honest. Most of the proposed ideas and changes seem... not great. Maybe not from a casual standpoint, but from a competitive one.
Now I understand competitive isnt everything, in fact I enjoy Pokemon more often for the designs and story than for the competitive game. But the thing is that these changes usually dont really effect the casual experience all too much. Bug type sucks in competitive, but I know people who run with a bug type their entire casual playthru. These changes have. Afar greater effect on competiitve, so I feel the competitive leaning perspective might be more valuable to take into consideration here.
When it comes to dark it's meant to be the evil type so just like how fairy is weak to steel because theyre weak to metal in folklore, I always asked why either steel didnt resist or was super effective against the evil type but the psychic type one known for BENDING METAL was resisted by steel! Kadabra and Alakazam deal with twisted spoons for a reason!
There are some really cool ideas in here (especially the ghost/dragon/fairy trio)
Personally, I've always thought that poison should be supereffective against water. Afterall, an oil spill can be a huge environmental disaster.
Personally to keep it balanced I would maybe remove the effectiveness against bug for reasons other people have said in the comment section.
Merge ground and rock. Then merge grass and bug. All bug pokemon really can fit in grass or poison, and it doesn't need its own. Remove normal from the type chart. Don't eliminate normal, but make normal.... normal. And then you have 15 elements. Fifteen is a nice place to be at
I am really interested in how different dual types would look like with this chart, specially how some pokemons would be buffed or nerfed with this.
These are great on paper but i dont think they take the over 1000 pokemon and their unique types/attacks/stats into account. If you do a type overhaul, youll have to overhaul the rest of the game.
I would make Psychic very effective against Steel because of the very old idea of psychics telecinetically bending spoons :D
Emperor cubebone explain in a video why certain types cannot work
If you can remember which one, send a link! I would love to watch it.
@@RadioactiveMagicGames I’ve sent it to messages
I think some ice type mons should have an ability where if attacked by a fire type move, they become a water type. Fire melts ice but water puts out fire
Fire and Ice need to be mutually super effective, tbh. Using the same neutral logic as yours, but melted ice is water, and fire melts ice.
Also, Ice needs to be super effective on while resisting electric. This is because improperly winterized electrical stuff will get wrecked in a blizzard, see Texas or how blizzards are notorious for causing outages, and ice is less conductive to electricity. On top of that, it creates an answer for Electric types other than Ground.
Ice resists Water.
I see this suggestion brought up by many players when it comes to revamping the Type Chart, but this is a TERRIBLE idea. Not because it would make Ice too strong or anything like that, but because then we'd have two mutual resistances between them. Mono-Water resists Water and Ice. Now Mono-Ice also resists both Water and Ice. Match these two types together and you'd get a lot more stalling. Heaven forbid you get a Water/Ice mirror match like Dewgong vs. Dewgong where they're just spamming Quad resisted moves over and over again!
For me it makes sense for ice resisting water and water being vulberable to ice, but making sense is subjective.
A huge issue with this type chart is that it messes up competitive completely. Its interesting for in-game but a fixed type chart isnt going to fix the numerous other issues releases have had. The most notable part of these changes is that dragon and ghost become even stronger offensively, which if youve played vgc, bss or smogon singles, you would know why thats such a bad ides.
99% of people don't even bother with the competitive side of pokemon so who cares lmao. All competitive pokemon is is smogon fart sniffers and constant swapping of pokemon in and out. Boring af.
@theteutonicorder9158 the main series games suck ass for numerous reasons and the type chart is not one of them. That's probably the least important thing given everything else. Also it just sounds like you don't know how to play and all you do is click the Unga bunga button lol so you wouldn't care about the type chart. And there's a reason I listed the comp modes in that specific order since that's the order game freak cares about them/gives them importance in and vgc specifically is very important to them right now.
@pmwaffle9348 I don't even play Pokémon anymore. X and Y were my last main series game. Just got fed up with all the handholding and lack of content. I've tried a lot of Pokémon style games like nexomon , coromon, and cassette beasts. Next month Extinction was probably my favorite one of those despite the flaws I enjoyed it a lot more than Pokémon.
@theteutonicorder9158 comp (vgc) is quite literally the only thing thriving right now. BSS is only really popular in Japan and smogon singles have been a mess this gen thanks to powercreep and that isn't even the worst. Casual fans are given absolute slop and for some reason keep eating it up. I'm glad we're in agreement about that at least because it's really sad how poorly the switch games are made compared to earlier titles and the sheer revenue they produce.
Poison should honestly be strong against water, and possibly flying too, due to the phenomenon called pollution
Really interesting video! I admit, I'm a little disappointed by the 'nerf everything about steel' approach; it was already a terrible offensive type, and was always intended to be a premium (not just good) defensive type; taking away so much of it's defensive utility makes the whole type feel lackluster.
yessss ty for doing the electric steel change i ALWAYS think it should have been like that. was always confused why it wasnt
Here's how I'd change the type chart:
Grass is immune to Fairy (photosynthesis)
Water is weak to Poison and Ice. Said types both resist it (water pollution and water freezing)
Normal is weak to Psychic, Fighting and Dark. Normal moves however hit everyone neutrally except for Ghost, being no longer resisted by Rock or Steel (Psychic, Fighting and Dark represent being more intelligent, stronger, or more dishonorable, than a normal human, while normal means non-elemental and as such should not be resisted)
Fighting is no longer supereffective on Ice. It is, however, no longer resisted by Poison. It resists Dragon (martial arts don't protect against cold or poisons, but the courage of fighters allows them to not fear dragons).
Electric is weak to Dark and is not very effective against it. It's also supereffective on Steel (blackouts, and metals being conductive).
Poison lost its resistance to Fighting, but it resists Water and is supereffective on it, and also resists Dark. It can hit Steel, albeit being resisted by it, but can no longer hit Bug, and is now weak to Rock (martial arts don't protect from poison but it pollutes water, and poison is a dishonorable tactic while dark is all about dishonorable tactics, bugs resist poisons and crystals cannot be poisoned, but steel being flat-out immune to it makes no sense).
Psychic is supereffective on Normal and Fairy, and weak to Dragon (a more clever human beats a normal human, science can comprehend the physics of light and debunk its magic, and dragons cause fear).
Dark resists Electric and is supereffective against it. It's also supereffective on Normal, but resisted by Poison (blackouts, beating an average human by excelling in dishonorable tactics, but poison is also dishonorable).
Ghost resists Fairy but no longer resists Bug (ghosts being immaterial and magical beings and as such being able to withstand magic, but it makes no sense for bugs to be resisted by ghosts).
Rock does no damage on Steel and is resisted by Ice, having also gained a weakness to the latter type. It does not resist Normal However, it's supereffective on Poison. It gained a resistance to Bug and to Rock itself and is no longer resisted by Ground (rocks being unable to break steel because it's harder, ice erodes rock, normal is non-elemental, rocks being able to absorb pollutants, bugs cannot break rocks).
Ground hits Steel neutrally, is resisted by Ice, and no longer resists Rock.
Ice is supereffective against Water and Rock, and resists Water, Ground and Rock. It's hit neutrally by Fighting, and only weak to Steel and Fire (ice erodes rocks, freezes water, and martial arts do nothing to protect from the cold).
Steel no longer resists Normal but it does resist Dark, is hit neutrally by Ground, and is weak to Dragon and Electric. It resists Poison but is no longer immune to it, being immune to Rock instead. It's resisted by Dragon (steel armors can resist dishonorable tactics, metal is conductive, and dragons are mystical beings so stronger than tech).
Bug resists Fairy and is supereffective against it. It's also immune to Poison, is no longer resisted by Ghost (bugs belong to nature, they're immune to poisons).
Dragon is supereffective on Steel and Psychic and resists not only Fire, Water, Grass and Electric but also Steel. It's resisted by Fighting instead.
Fairy is resisted by Bug, Psychic and Ghost, does no damage on Grass, and is weak to Bug and Psychic.
Times like these make me respect Gamefreak for how well they balance their types. Normal becomes even worse, it looks like you tried your best to make ice as overpowered as possible. Super effective against 6 types, only two weaknesses, and 4 resistances that make an ice/fire or an ice/dragon type busted. So much for the weakest type defensively. Also, ice-eroding rock is an argument for being super effective against it, not a resistance, rock is a harder material that shatters ice regardless, same with fighting. Dragon is also buffed for no reason. Also, why is dark weak against electricity? It's the evil type, not literal darkness. And even then, wouldn’t electricity make light in the darkness? Electric types make their own electricity, blackouts aren’t a problem
@@goldfishsandwich9737 Dark needs to be boosted. It's too similar to Ghost offensively (though it's also resisted and weak to Fairy, making Dark pale compared to Ghost) and they must be made more different
@@goldfishsandwich9737 Normal is not worse: as an offensive type, it's unwallable unless you have a Ghost, since it hits everything neutrally except it.
@@goldfishsandwich9737 I'd make ice no longer resistant to rock, it could still be weak to it, but it still needs to be supereffective on it and water due to erosion and freezing. Also, ice weak to fighting makes no sense.
@@vittoriopugliese3352 Dark is doing great right now and doesn't need a buff. The only type to both resist and be super effective against Psychic and Ghost. Making it a valuable type. Being immune to prankster is also great. Their moves are great, too. Such as Sucker Punch, Snarl, and Knock off. Also not sure why you're talking about balancing now when you made ice super effective against six types, and only weak to two. The Fire type is also untouched. An already strong type that is made better by you nerfing its weaknesses, (rock water ground) and buffing its counters. (bug grass ice)
This Normal is Terrible defensively. Will hurt slow and bulky Normal types severely. Such as Snorlax, Blissey, Porygon 2, Ursaluna, and Farigiraf. The strongest Normals. No one is using normal for coverage when they can just use moves that are super effective against their weaknesses, such as ghost, (no single typing resists both ghost and normal.) or fighting for Rock and Steel. There is no benefit for a Pokemon to be normal, except to get three weaknesses that far outweigh one immunity.
Still doesn't solve how overpowered ice is. Especially with the powerful snow environment which boosts defense. And Fighters would easily break ice compared to rock, and steel. Also, ice melts faster in water.
A bit more has to be said too about this. For one, Bugs aren’t immune to poisons. Insecticides and other pest control products are poisonous, Spiders and Scorpions are venomous to weaken and melt the insides of insect prey. You could use that same reason for Dragon resisting Steel to make Fairy resist Steel. Poison would weaken a fighter. Magic is very real in the Pokemon universe, so that shouldn’t be a reason psychic is good against fairy. Dragon should just resist elemental types. Normal should be resisted by steel the average Joe can not break through steel. There are honestly way too many different types of matchups, making it complicated.
water should definitely stay good against rock
If we aren't making a "rebalancing", but a full reboot instead, I actuallu believe it would be much better to remove all the "wierd" interactions.
Like Bug vs Dark... I never understood that...
Because bugs can see in the dark?
Either that or Kamen rider
Dark is actually called evil type in japanese
@@dracomalfoy6886 definitely Kamen rider
Here's a different proposal for the Steel Type: I like the idea of it being an all or nothing type in defense. Weaknesses to Water, Electric, Fire, Fighting and Ground, but resists all other types and is immune to poison. That way, there's careful thought into type coverage and in dual types.
As long as water and electric are nerfed in other ways, because they are some the strongest types on the game even without that.
@@goldfishsandwich9737 In that scenario, I'd give Water a weakness to Poison, and Rock a resistance to Electric. Poison is based around pollution and toxins, which spread significantly easier through water than ground or air. And If Ground is immune to Electric because it grounds the electricity, I don't get why Rock shouldn't at least resist it for the same reasons, plus it gives Rock, Steel, and Ground all different interactions in extremes with Electric.
i would rename flying type to air type.
Imo ice very much just needs a water and ground resistance.
Parasect and Leavanny now have three 4x weaknesses......great
FU-
Ill be honest, i dont really agree with a lot of this rework at all. As ive seen from the comments, people want Ice to resist Dragon. Id like that, as it actually gives a good buff to Ice types. I also agree with Psychic and Dark being weak against Bug to buff the currently terrible type, but id prevent Psychic from being an immunity. Dark is already immune to it, and Psychic is good enough as it is to be able to at least hit Bug types. Also, while making Poison super effective on Bug makes sense, i feel like it could sway Poison just a little too far. Yeah, it only hits 3 types super effectively here, but considering Poison is more of a defensive type than offensive i wouldnt want to change it too much anyways.
Now on to the big ones. Fairy. Dont change it at all, but give it 1 more weakness. Making it weak to Bug instead of resisting it is good enough for me, and it would further buff Bug into being a good type while nerfing the currently OP Fairy type thats barely kept in check by shallow movepools and few holders of the type.
Next, Steel. To me its ok, but having just 1 more resistance or weakness is good for me. Honestly a Sound type would be perfect, but the next closest thing is, like in your chart, Electric. I can agree with it, making a mediocre type do well against the best defensive type in the game. Now for the problem i have: in your chart, Fairy isnt weak to it. Steel is a defensive type and not offensive by any means, but Fairy does need something to nerf it, and slapping on a ton of weaknesses actually can make it worse. Thats why i said to keep it the same with a Bug weakness; we dont want what happened to Dragon to repeat itself. And being weak to 3 types, including Steel, actually give them more of an offensive presence. And its something Steel would need in todays meta.
Finally, Normal. Its good purely because of how its STAB can hit about anything and its coverage pool is usually quite extensive. However, as many probably agree, it needs just a little more of a presense, especially defensively. Maybe make Bug weak to it, idk. It could bring down the slightly more powerful Bug type now. But defensively, i think it should resist Bug. At the very least it deserves a resistance, and doesnt exactly need to be super effective against anything. But resisting Bug can actually keep a buffed Bug type in check, and maybe they could have unique interactions where a Normal move does a bit more damage to Bug types if the Bug moved first. Its like a reflex; you swing your arm hard to hit a mosquito thats trying to feast on your blood much harder to ensure its killed. Its a normal reflex, hence why Normal would have this interaction with Bug
"Fire is not super effective against Ice" -a statement made by the utterly deranged
Honestly. Fairy doesnt need to be immune to dragon and itd still be op according to some folks. My main concern with the type chart is that ice as a type is always a strictly negative change to a pokemon, your change slightly improves it yeah
it just doesn't make sense for water to be strong against rock and ground it should be the other way around earth should be strong against water because rocks and soil absorb and contains water and water should also be weak to ice not resist it because ice freezes water
You are probably unaware in weathering or rocks and erosion
It only absorbs yet it's still water doesn't change the chemical formula of water. Unlike weathering of rocks by water can change the chemical composition of rocks
I feel Dragon, Bug, Fairy would make more sense as Bugs are already early PKMN and you have already added a Bug/Fairy strength
On the idea of perfect imbalance and how it affects the metagame dynamics:
We're gradually experimenting with this with Fire-types. Fire-types were considered a bad type generations ago, but that all started to change with the introduction of Fairy-types. Fairy-types were designed to balance out Dragon-types, which were too strong. Soon Fairy-types became the most powerful type, which led to Steel-types starting to emerge as a counterpoint. In the last few generations, Steel established itself as the best type, but now in Generation IX, Fire-types have emerged as a counter to Steel-types with the bonus of resisting Fairy-types, making them a good type in the metagame. I predict that by Generation X, we'll see Ground-types emerging as an answer to Fire-types and Steel-types, and then Water-types as an answer to Ground-types and Fire-types, etc.
Bug type and Poison type used to be super effective against eachother, at least in gen 1
Bug and water should be weak to poison because of pesticides and pollution respectively
Ice should resist ground because glaciers travel the ground and take parts of the ground with it
Ghost should not resist bug
Ice should hit rock super effectively as a reference to weathering by ice freezing inside of rocks and breaking them
If rock and ground merge then they should be called Earth type
A type related move I made is Yin and Yang, a normal special move with 80 base power. It affects everyone on the field, and reverses their affinities. (So, Fairy would be weak to dragon and Grass would resist bug)