READ ME and the video description for corrections and info: - This video is by popular request from viewers. - The description and video say this, but I'll say it once more here: The type chart should be tested and revised, and I certainly don't think this is perfect or definitive. Like Game Freak, I had to put something out there to get a starting point, and then revise it. - There were rendering issues where no matter how much I re-rendered the video, it did not line up with what I put and was seeing on the timeline. Like the placard for Poison that pops in suddenly instead of showing up at the start of the section like the others. I gave up, my time is better spent on a different video. - The audio is better but worse in a different way. I'm properly hydrated (according to my clinician). Still experimenting with different mic placements, different mics, sound treatment, pop filters, holding a pencil between my lips, different audio filters, the list goes on. I honestly spend more time reading and watching guides to audio, recording, and re-recording than anything else related to making TH-cam videos. Better quality audio will come with time and practice I suppose, because the biggest problem seems to be capturing quality audio to begin with. This isn't a source of income, but I'd still like to take it seriously. This is also why I don't stream, despite the requests, but I'd certainly love to. - I already respected TH-camrs, after all we should be treating everyone with respect and consideration, but my goodness, TH-camrs have a way of making it look like good audio is plug and play, and it's amazing. - Also adding the type chart here too: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mm3dff4C_4ma3A1Z0wMoK2zAI-SRA0ho/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=104403480346576817236&rtpof=true&sd=true
@@colecronin7660 It would be good, but definitely not broken. Either having its held item slot always used up (heavy duty boots) or taking 25% from stealth rock is a serious offset. You would need it to have volcarona tier stats AND distribution in order for it to be on the level of broken.
@@mertensiam3384 I hate to break it to you, but bugs most certainly can be made confused and dizzy. Look up spiders making webs in space, or bees that are sleep continually sleep deprived.
Why logical reasons? The only reason water pollution exists is because of humans. We spill or leak oil, use chemical containers city sewage, industrial waste discharge, and many more, which results in water pollution. It's not like poison just stays there or grows in size, it breaks over time. Sure, it takes a lot of time, but still. Also, water is actually one of the best ways to dilute the poison.
@@Deadflower019 why not? It's called pollution, it was talked about in the video... Also Water only has 1 weakness (Grass doesn't count) which is blatantly OP, needs nerfs.
I think Bug should be super effective against Ground. Plenty of insects are capable of burrowing through, and sometimes even eating, dirt and mud, so it would make sense if Bug Pokémon could majorly damage Pokémon with that kind of material on them. It makes sense thematically and it boosts Bug types offensively as Ground is a very common type in all aspects of Pokémon, though primarily in competitive play, due to Ground's strong offensive presence.
I think the fire is immune to burn, grass is immune to powder moves and ghost can excape anytime. So bug pokemon should have a damage increase in multihitt moves rollout, Pin missles, bullet seed and Fury attack.
@@finna1002 look if fire types are any type of fighting style its fire power. Also bug Pokemon getting abilities like technician, shed skin and compound eyes is a waste just give it as a type bonus.
I think that would work better as bug type move that works like freeze-dry where it functions normally except when targeting a specific type. You could give that to bug types that burrow like nincada and durant without having strange match ups using those that don't burrow like dustox or pineco
I think the only thing I'm not sure about is Rock Types removing Stealth Rock upon switching in, they could be immune to them, much like they are immune to Sandstorm, but just the thought of seeing tyranitar even more than I've seen it all my life, but now it removes stealth rock while at the same time spitting sand in your face, that sounds like overkill
I honestly think its okay. Rocks (and passive damage as a whole) are incredibly oppressive and it wasnt until fairly recently in pokemon that hazard removing options were actually good. Being able to remove them without having to dedicate a moveslot and a turn to get rid of them that gives your opponent to abuse that sounds reasonable
@@benlee7565 I'm not *fully* up to date with the competitive scene in ersonal experience right now altough I watch a lot of content about it, but as I have it understoon, Poison types are much rarer than Rock types (specially again with the eternal prevalence of tyranitar) and thus Poison Spikes can be played around much easier since their damage is applied after the turn. I had also understood that Stealth Rock is what keeps several pokemon from breaking the meta, since the introduction of Heavy Duty Boots made okay or goodish pokemon shoot straight into Ubers (I THINK the most prominent case was cinderace, but I might be wrong), and it was something about Stealth Rock preventing hyper offense solo pokemon, as well as soft-capping stall/defensive pokemon
@@boldknock7436 there is no need to nerf hazard anymore except nerfing gholdengo ability. Hazards are what keeps offensive and defensive powerhouse in check. For example, you can just look at Volcarona in gen7: it was great and a top setup sweeper despite the quad weakness to stealth rock being present; as such it would have get immediately banned due to how op a set composed of HP ground/flamethrower/roost/quiver dance would hav been (only checks being in chansey, blissey and quagsire). Hazards ARE opressive because most (if not all) pokemon we plays are weak to it.
@@wires-sl7gs Yes. Not all types are created in the same way. Ice isnt supposed to be a defensive type. Some pokemon that are ice type have high defenses to offset this. Doesnt mean the type should just get made bulky all of a sudden
Grass is one of those types that looks weak on paper but they are actually extremely strong due to how they play into the meta. Wide access to sleep and healing with Synthesis, support moves like Aromatherapy, Amoongus the powerhouse and for a brief period the rulers of strong priority. Grass is actually the most common type in VGC; That is to say, there are always multiple grass types in the meta.
And in singleplayer grass is the only type to both resist and be super effective against water and ground. Two very very common types in regular pokemon. I mean water is just... so... so common.
I’m currently developing my own ROM hack which includes changes to the type chart. I really liked some of the changes you proposed here, especially for Bug, Rock, and Grass types, so I may consider incorporating them in my own hack as well. Great video!
Cool! Will you post news, updates on this matter on this comment thread? Would be cool for people coming across this video in the future who may want to know what happened since then.
And the fact the ability is on a partial fire type. You gave the ability that gives poison something to do against steel to the pokemon who resist steel and can just blow them away with flamethrower
Glimmora gets it too, but since its other ability its Toxic Debris and it's already setting up other hazards on top its Toxic Spikes it's already poisoning most things. I guess it's fine if you just really like pressing Mortal Spin.
Corrosion is also a flawed ability. It basically only affects Toxic, Poison Gas and any other non-poison moves that can poison because the effect of steel being immune to the poison type nullifies the chance for moves like Sludge Bomb to poison. This is relevant for Glimmora who can't poison Steel types with Mortal Spin because it inflicts a small amount of damage : - )
Grass is kind of incredible because on the surface it looks terrible, but the good traits it has are just THAT good and justify everything else, I'd just leave it as is
I heard Serperior is pretty good because of it's Hidden Ability Contrary and now it's going to get access to Terastalization. I also think it should be given Overheat and Draco Meteor.
It's more of the movepools and abilities that make them good. Give spore or contrary leafstorm/Draco to better typings (dragon, steel, fairy for example) and they'd become utter monsters. The grass typing itself is a hindrance but the tools they get are what make them somewhat viable
I feel like at this point CammyMeeleTea should just get all the changes to Pokémon they've made throughout the channel and make a fan game out of it. That'd be genuinely awesome.
My changes would go towards buffing Psychic. People forget that Psychic itself is an average to bad typing because it's dominance in Gen 1 and how many legendaries are part Psychic so I would add a couple of buffs to it. First being it resists Ground, this is because of how many psychic pokemon can float or levitate, which is the same reason Bug resists ground. The second it becomes SE on Fairy, which can be justified as using their superior power and control over "magic", I would also switch Steel's resistance to Psychic and make it so Bug resists it instead.
I'd make Rock strong against Fairy, because it's the closest thing to represent salt, which fairies hate in lore. It's a very common type with accessible moves. And also, Stealth Rock might help nerfing and ruining most fairies, like how the moved ruined ice type Pokemon. This could be the fairy nerf everyone wanted.
The thing is rock is already arguably the best offensive type in the game as it is super effective against more things than it is resisted by and nothing is imuned to it. What it really needs is a defensive buff. Personally I'm not in favour of removing the ground weakness as it's completely logical, but rather make it resist elektrik, bug and maybe also lose the steel type weakness. Hitting a rock with a sword destroys the sword, not the rock, and rocks are generally not conducive, and not gonna be armed by a bug. Speaking of bug types I like the idea of bug being strong against every super natural type. Like make them resist psychic, ghost and fairy, those types are treated as very strong types in lore and I find it ilarious for bug types to beat them. Also make it neutral on flying, and compensate those with an ice resist and losing the grass type resist.
Then you would rely on rock and stealth rocks to handle balancing, and i don't believe that's a way you want to follow. I would try to make changes that are as flexible as possible
@@artimist0315 Rock might be great offensively but it doesn't matter since 95% of rock types are physical and there's like 3 100% accurate rock moves (Accelerock, Smack Down and Salt Cure) now granted it's very easy to just click Stone Edge, but there is a reason it's been dubbed "Stone Miss" in the community.
Okay, so, I think fairy and bug should resist each other, as fairies hold dominion over nature, but bugs are big enough to hold their own against the fey.
In the game I'm making, I've also been rebalancing the type chart. Something I learned quickly is to keep it intuitive, I tried buffing ice by having fire do neutral using logic. but it felt terrible in testing and instantly made me reconsider the way I balance it.
@@princesscrystal6410 I think I've also added those aswell as the buff to hail/snow raising defense I though I need to keep a close eye on if it's maybe too much.
Bug actually sort of has a theoretical trade-off to being so resisted, the fact that they have many moves with good effects. U-Turn, Lunge, Bug Buzz, First Impression, Quiver Dance, Tail Glow… Unfortunately in reality types like Water and Dark get stuff like Scald, Chilling Water, Nasty Plot, Sucker Punch and Knock Off with wide distribution on strong Pokémon and with an actually good type.
I agree, but now that we know that anything can be Dexited at any time, it becomes a crutch that can be robbed at anytime. They added all these things Generation 4 and onwards and we have to hope they don't get removed. Imagine an alternate universe where Water type was bad and was only good because of Scald. It makes me wonder if people would still hate Scald as much or if people wanted it to stay because it's all that Water had. These are the kinds of things I think. I kinda don't trust them to not remove the only things making them relevant.
I'm not super on board with having grass naturally resist ghost but I think a good compromise would be to introduce an ability that specifically reduces damage from ghost moves, similar to Purifying Salt and just distribute it to a bunch of grass Pokemon that fit the lore concept
You're right about the shifting philosophy with the type chart, how it wasn't originally tended as this perfectly sculpted competitive metagame, and how it can shift over time. I like the _idea_ of each type having a mechanical identity, like a tank or a glass cannon, but there are too many factors working against that; most notably, I think, that Pokémon can learn moves of other types. STAB is an incentive, but not enough to make you choose an ice type glass cannon over a water type tank that can still use Ice Beam well enough, but take hits way more effectively. It'd be interesting to see what the games would look like if Pokémon only got moves of their own type - maybe an exception for Normal. As it stands, a type's defences are just significantly more important than offences - which is exactly why Ice, a great attacking type, is one of the worst types in the game, whilst Steel, a terrible attacking type, is the best type in the game. I also have to wonder what it would look like if, rather than modifying the existing chart, the type chart was scrapped entirely and rebuilt from the beginning to serve as a balanced metagame. If that were the case, I can't imagine Steel keeping all of those resistances, but in reality it's so ingrained in consciousness as the type that resists everything.
Yes, you get it exactly. That's why I always stress in my videos to step back from whatever game mode of pokémon that they play the most and look at the full picture. What still serves its purpose, what doesn't? Does it even need to serve the same purpose? There's so many amazing ideas I see in my video comments and other pokémon video comments that don't fit with pokémon at, or would be really hard to cohesively implement, but would be amazing if a game was built with the idea in mind. I get that it's hard to make more monster catchers, but there's a lot of good ideas I'd hate to see die.
“Poison now hits Water super effectively” Azumarill: “haha, I’m in danger” It’d be nice if GameFreak were capable of having more people test possible alterations to type interactions. Alas, such a small and poor company can’t afford that.
Gotta say, I never thought of the changes to grass, mainly because while being of the weakest types, it is also most certainly of the most viable and useful "weak" types competitively, just look at the Gen 9 comp scene and the sheer number of pokemon that run Tera Grass. That being said, it still could use a buff and I gotta admit your changes to it were my favourite of the bunch. As for poison, I fully agree, I've always thought that water should be weak to it, with the pollution logic in mind, though I always feared it could hit a couple of pokemon too hard, but after thinking it again... I dont think there's a single offense oriented Poison type that really ever succeeds because of being poison, its usually because of a secondary typing, or they just arent successful in offense at all, and pair that up with how borderline busted water type is, I think it'd be a totally fair change, water has had it good for way too long, is it supposed to be a tanky archetype? an offensive one? or an all rounder? Right now it way too good at everything as a type, hence why it usually ranks among the top with Fairy. With bug I fully agree on everything, for the life of me I cannot understand what their logic behind some of the deicsions (and lack there of) with it are... especially why GHOST resists it (fairy too)... I like all the change applied to bug, they're supposed to be speedy mainly, offensive too but most of their archetype revolves on being agile and fast so I think the changes you suggest are good. The only remotely useful thing Bugs have right now is resisting one of the best offensive types in the game, Ground, but that is heavily offset by literally everythingelse the type brings to the table. Finally I was always afraid of hitting Ghosts too hard to make them not resist bug and poison anymore, but honestly I dont see why they do, those two types were already weak offensively without that it really wasnt needed... I can see the logic behind the poison resistance, they're ghostly otherworldly creatures, so they arent exactly prone to fall "ill" per se... but from a balance perspective I dont really see much of a point in doing it other than hitting a bad type when its down already. Besides ghosts specialty is more on offense as well as disruption and support, the lack of types that resist it is part of what makes them good, so losing out on their defensive aspect shouldnt be much of a big deal (Thought BIG rip to the abundance of Grass/Ghost mons GF seems to have fallen in love with since Gen 6 LMAO)
@@finna1002Spore is only learned by a handful of things though, and only like two of them are good (because as it turns out, having one good move does nothing to offset bad stats and bad typing). Hardly something that improves the type as a whole. (And this is exactly one of the couple reasons why Cammy stressed that they wouldn't fixate on specific mons, moves, etc to 'indirectly' balance types). For my part, I kind of appreciate what they were going for with Grass-type, as specializing in status effects and other gimmicks (complete with being immune to many of their own tricks) in exchange for getting shortchanged within the type chart itself. But this didn't quite work and left them still pretty underwhelming, not least because type effectiveness is as important as it is in Pokémon. And it feels even worse because as one of the starter types, you'd expect extra care to be put into making it a good type.
Grass is a bad type; its only situationally good currently because the best tera types currently (water/ Fairy), happen to be weak or neutral to grass. That was by chance, and prior to tera, grass was only good because sub seed; or rillaboom grassy terrain. I also agree with Cammy, I never understood why grass was weak to flying, or resisted by flying. Few birds damage plants, most are symbiotic. N trees generally evolved to resist strong winds in areas that have it.
@@wmzer0mw The only thought process I can think of regarding flying's resistance to grass is that plants are usually associated with the earth, which works against them if a bird is up high and you're rooted down below. However, grass being weak to flying is less conceptual to me because pokémon can move and have very good speeds, removing the idea that a plant is "defenseless" against aerial attacks (and most birds don't eat plants anyway, just the fruit, which isn't vital to the plants' survival, unlike bug types). One could argue that their roots can't handle strong winds, but then again, neither can steel if the wind is strong enough, and steel resists flying no matter what x) I'd say Grass should lose the Flying weakness and be neutral to it, while Flying could continue to resist grass
I completely agree Ice should resist Water, but the move Scald should hit Ice types for super effective damage. Similar to how Freeze dry hits Water types super effectively!
I find it very interesting, and equally annoying, how Dark types are immune to ALL moves affected by the ability Prankster, no matter what type the move is.
Being honest, on the glass cannon perspective of ice type, I think this should be the change: Keep all ice type weakness, but now the only type that resist ice is Steel and ice is immune against itself, on super effective area, keep the ones we have, but not only we have acess to freeze dry to hit water for super effective, but we should make someone like that to hit steel super effectively, but these 2 moves should be learnt only by ice types, this way we can make the hyper offensive type, everyone can make some use with it, being strong against 4 types and only resisted by one and immune by itself, but ice type pokemons have a bonus in some special moves which add them more options to hit super effectively, going to a max of 6 types, a record, it would be really good against a lot of dual types because of the 4x damages, making that even the more bulky and slow pokemons can be an offensive threat if not delt with Also, we should really have gen 9 snow than old hail, and frost bite instead of freeze, I like ice type being more gimmeckish than an average and standard type, the idea of not being able to protect yourself from ice, just fighting it back is interesting to me, like in real life where people and animals always looked for shelter from the coldness, and plants either died or found ways to survive, most living beings can't naturally deal with the cold, and even the ones that can, just lower even more the temperature and they can't anymore If you REALLY want to remove one of ice's weakness, remove fighting, really, rock is already weak overall, fire makes sense and steel is the only one to keep it's resistance, now fighting, not only is the most whatever of the group, but back then, fighting was weak only against flying and psychic, even if ghost was immune, they were not offensively weak against it, while still being able to hit 5 types for super effective damage, what is more than even Ice's natural power, so if it's to nerf someone's offense to help ice, it should DEFINITIVELY be fighting
I’ve literally been looking for a video like this for months, oh my gosh thank you so much. After watching Wolfey’s videos on fixing the bug and ice type, I couldn’t believe I couldn’t find more videos like them.
As someone once pointed out to me when I wanted to make Water weak to Poison, it would make 2 of the starter types weak to the same type. Grass and Water already have a lot of overlap offensively, both hitting Rock and Ground, and further increasing that similarity might not be ideal. At the same time, I can't really justify any other type being weak to Poison.
Types in Pokémon are also more like different energies that Pokémon can draw that they are not necessarily a part of. Like Flygon could be four types but it’s only two but it can still draw from closely related types. But Pokémon often take from far away types that only through a stretch could they really use and mostly for “balance” reasons (as if Pokémon has ever been balanced).
Thematically, Poison’s weaknesses to Ground and Psychic never made sense to me. I think it would make sense to make it weak to Fire, since many toxic liquids and gases are flammable. Although that might make Fire OP since it’s already super effective against 4 types, some of which are really common.
Ground being effective against poison is because of some japanese thingy where you can heal poisoning using sand. Psychic is because of human intelligence being able to create cures to many illnesses
I really enjoyed the video and do think the type chart does need some updating but I must say the best part of the video is when you kept saying “magic” 😂
Overall pretty good video and I can agree on most of them, I just REALLY don't like Ice resisting Electric. Electric though potent since it hits Water, (a super common defensive type) cutting it down by making Ice resist Electric and Poison hit Water super effectively, it's basicially making Poison REPLACE Electric. And while I like the poison-type, I don't like this idea.
A few changes I would propose: 1. Make Fighting weak to Poison. The logic is that poison can negatively affect your ability to use your muscles. 2. Make Fighting resist itself. If you punch a martial artist, it affects them less since they're trained to take it. Okay, the big ones are under the read more. Hear me out on them. 3. Make Normal resist Fairy. An odd one, but my argument is a Peter Pan reference, specifically something called the Tinkerbell Effect. The idea is that something exists solely because people believe in it; in contrast, that means that not believing in something strips it of its power over you. And since fairies exist outside of what we consider normal, it makes sense that the type would at least resist Fairy if not outright be immune to it. 4. Make Normal resist Psychic. Same logic as the Fairy argument; skeptics see through mediums and stage magicians all the time, so have the plainest type be less affected by what is essentially the Magic-type. 5. Have Normal interact with Dragon somehow. I've gone back and forth on this, but I could see it either way. You could make it resist Dragon using the same logic as my Fairy argument; if you don't believe in the fantasy creature, it can't hurt you. At the same time, an ordinary person being disembowelled by the dragon in front of them with little effort also justifies giving it a weakness to Dragon.
I've actually been working on a type chart re-balance off and on for a bit and I saw a lot of the same thought processes. I used the value system (1 strength is +1, 1 weakness is -1, and immunities are +/-2) as a guide to kind of help with some of the see-saw balancing bit of it with the ideal being all types having 0 value. I more just reduced the range from 8 to -5 down to 4 to -2 with like all but 3 types being 1 to -1 value. I've also done a decent amount of testing of it through a modified version of Pokabbie's Pokemon Emerald Rogue I made and a lot of the changes feel really good in general and even the nerfed types still see a lot of use. Stuff isn't really 100% where I'd want it, but I won't be tweaking it any further without further testing. Testing helped me actually remove rock's weakness to ground, undo an over-nerf to flying's offensive potential I did, and made me kind of realize that basically nothing should have 5 weaknesses. Would love to see some competitive players try and break it and see where a meta lands with this thing. Would also love more criticism in general for it. Probs went too change-heavy but meh, it was a fun personal project. I've got all the dual type resistances, an auto-updating spreadsheet and thematic/balance reasoning too if anyone wants any of that. The actual changes below: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/875340180540764190/1153418617266901062/image.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/875340180540764190/1153418617703125022/image.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/875340180540764190/1153418618281926747/image.png
10:40-I prefer if Bugs waked up 1 turn early, since most bugs in real life are naturally "Early Birds". I also think is better than give immunite because that would prevent bugs of using Rest.
I think It’d be cool if fire and ice hit each other super effectively. Because while yes, fire can melt ice if the fire is hot enough, ice can also kill a flame if it is cold enough to overwhelm the heat.
Yes, average. Pokémon's type bell curve isn't a bell curve where the 50th percentile is average. Average is more like the 60th to 70th percentile. Fairy, Steel, and Water are above average on the bell curve. Ice and Bug are very, very below average on the bell curve. Ground is like 7/10. Average can still be great, relax dude. Think about test scores, or at least how it's done in some places. Test scores go from 65-100. You get a 0 for cheating or not showing up. Since the ability to actually score 0's is so unlikely, the standard distribution is skewed upwards. 50% isn't average anymore. Now it's somewhere in the mid 80's or something. I.E. Ground is a B/B+ student, thus AVERAGE.
@@CammyMeeleTea Ah, okay, that makes sense. I was thinking less of Ground explicitly as a type and more Earthquake specifically. Resisting Earthquake is very good.
Some neat ideas! I can’t really get behind Flying losing its resistance to grass, both from a lore perspective but also because Flying is hardly a top tier type in isolation anyway. But I feel your pain on Fairy/Bug
Huh, never thought about grass resisting fairy and ghost, but with that explanation it makes total sense. Me personally, I would like to see these changes: Ice would resist Dragon, ground, and itself. Dragon because most dragons are reptiles and can't deal with the cold and Ground because of permafrost. Psychic would resist Fairy and hit Fairy super effectively. Reasoning is that if you're smart, you wouldn't believe in pixie fairy magic. Plus Psychic seriously needs a buff. Bug would be neutral against Fairy. Why did Game freak make fairy resist bug to begin with?!?! I do like your Bug being immune to confusion, so I would add that. Same with grass resisting ghost, but I would make fairy stay neutral since I believe Psychic needs the resistance more. Last I would give steel its dark resistance back, but ghost can stay neutral. Reasoning is that ghosts can phase through and control metal objects, while dark is just Normal type attacks imbudded with evil energy. But you do make some decent changes that i would be happy with.
Definitely think that your revisions could be another good way to go about it. Balance is hard. It's like a game of whack-a-mole. Since I made Poison hit a strong type like Water. People might actually need to use Psychic to threaten Poison. Ground can still be used of course, but Grass has more chances to come in now as well, so maybe people would use it slightly less. Plus, a good amount of pokémon on the special side get Psychic instead of Earth Power, so there might be more of a need for STAB Psychic? If people use Psychics more, then maybe people use the Bugs and Ghosts? Making Psychic better wasn't my goal, since it's just an average type, but these changes could have indirectly made them better or worse. Poison is better, Bug is better, Ghost is slightly worse. I wasn't aiming for trickle-down balancing, but things really do trickle down and ripple in ways we can't predict.
I agree that the Psychic Type needs a buff because it's only Super Effective against Fighting and Poison and there are better options against those Types like if you want to beat Poison you might as well use Ground.
From what I've heard time and time again, the reason fairy resists bug is basically due to U-turn spam and how it just reigned supreme in Gen 5, but then again, not sure how much Gamefreak cares about 6v6 singles so...
Honestly if I was in charge of the typechart I would change it so that most types just interact neutrally to each other. To kind of lean into the old "Elemental abilities are basically special magic/techniques" thing Gen 1 seemed to have been going for. There would still be stuff like fire being strong against Ice and Grass, but it would probably be limited to each type having a positive/negative relationship to only like, three to four types at a time.
Typing is mainly what give pokemon checks and counters. If you remove most of them, singles would mostly devolve into spamming strong attacks, because 1) Your enemy isn't likely to have a counter to your pokemon. 2) Even if they send in a check as a revenge killer, YOU aren't likely to have a counter to the check they send in.
@@CealdorGaming Singles isn't the intended PvP competitive mode anyway so I don't really care too much; And Singles is a parade of bans and clauses already, they will find a way to cobble something worthwhile together. Otherwise, abilities, innate type features (Grass being immune to spores and such) and sparsely distributed moves should be enough to provide reasonable checks and balances.
In every other rpg (for example smt) light and dark or good and evil always beat each other, and fairy is basically a light/good and dark is literally evil.
If rock types actually had good HP and special defense maybe they could also be good walls. Also, there could be more speedy rock types. I find it weird ground doesn’t resist itself.
This might be too much but it might be cool if water resisted poison. But if a poison type hits a water type with a poison move it poison it, badly if poison is the primary type. Seems like way too much for a type but makes logical sense since water dissapates poison at the cost of having poison in it now. I think it would be a cool interaction.
I still want to see the change between steel, psychic, and dark because steel or metal in general is known to useful in protecting against and helping defeat evil aka dark, while the thing psychics are most known for is BENDING METAL!!! SO why tf does steel resist psychic??? And also it makes no sense for dark types to be immune to prankster, it would've made much mrope sense for psychics to be immune because someone who can read your mind and predict the future is never going to be pranked, that's the reason why psychic surge nullifies all priority moves, evil has no correlation with pranking
Another problem for me is that Ghost and Dark are basically the same type offensively - SE on Ghost and Psychic. I think they can both each use another SE different from each other. Like maybe Ghost SE on Fighting and Dark SE on Steel.
@@CloutmasterPhluphyyThere is a reason that recently, especially from gen 8 and after (but arguably before), ghosts became very opressive offensively. Sure, it hits only two types offensively, but the problem is how hard is to find a resist to it. Dark's only main use today is its matchup against ghost, and became good despite that, which argues to how good it is
I personally feel like Poison would make sense to be SE on Psychic, making them beat each other. Death by toxins is a very common fear that we have, keeping with the “Psychic loses to common fears” trope, and there are *so* many different poisonous substances that can seriously mess with your mind, from neurotoxins to psychedelics to hallucinogens. Water also makes sense and is probably the smarter pick, but I feel like my idea could work as well for a Poison buff.
issue is... weel almost anything can be looked at as a fear against psychic: bug (especially arachnids that are bug types), ice (wanna die of frost?), fire (being burned alive is terrifying), water (drowning is terrifying) grass (for the same reasons you put poison there), ghost is self-explanatory, dark (fear of the dark of course and dark overall being all about messing with someone's mind), dragon (wanna face a monster that's not even supposed to exist?)... if you go this route more than half the typings in the games should have favorable interactions with psychic
It's honestly kinda surprising that the type chart for Pokemon has hardly seen any major chances since its debut,- though I guess we have the breakneck release schedule of modern Pokemon games hasn't given the developers much of chance to consider changing type relations. Bug types: I love your cautious approach to buffing the bug type. Rather than implementing the highly requested "Fairy is weak to Bug and Bug is strong against Fairy change." you just let bug resist fairy and poison. And you even gave the bug type the utility to be immune to confusion. Spreading out smaller buffs like this helps maintain a familiarity to the original type. Ice types: I'm very glad you removed the ground resist that you proposed in your original video- especially in tandem with your new changes to the grass type. I don't much else to say because these changes make a lot of sense on paper. Rock types: For the longest time I've always wondered why rock never resisted itself... it just kinda made sense? And the removal of stealth rocks on switch-in is amazing in a competitive sense- having a rock-type on your team is now always a valid consideration. Removing the very common ground weakness is the icing on the top. Grass types: Honestly, you had your work cut out for you when ice types got similar resistances to grass types. So when you made the out-of-pocket fairy and ghost resistances I was all for it! You learned into the grass type's "many weaknesses but, many resistances" design- I am the most excited to try out these changes if they were implemented in a battle sim or game. (Also removing the flying type's resistance to grass is also great.) Poison Type: No other type deserved to gain the super-effective advantage over water more than poison. Hitting such a common type for super-effective gives the poison type an offensive identity- clearing grass and fairy weren't enough. My only concern from these changes as seen on paper is that the ghost type going from a solid type to potentially below average- mainly in a competitive sense. I can forsee Defensive Grass pivots being utilized a lot more and the added poison neutrality may hurt just a little too much for them. that being said- none of these changes have been tested yet, so who knows. This is a wonderful video and I hope maybe someday I can try implementing these changes in a fan-game project or something because they certainly will liven up Pokemon as a whole! :>
While I do agree that ghost having two immunities is pretty strong, removing both its resistances seems a bit much. While the bug one is understandable because of how many types resist it, I really don't think poison is being screwed quite as hard that it can't have ghost resist it. And while thematics weren't your priority, I think making poison hit one type of magic creature, fairy types, for super effective damage, while another type magic creature resists it seems like an appropriate trade-off. Besides the idea of them resisting toxins because they aren't totally corporeal and such.
Before I watch the video, imma leave my definitely sound ideas and then watch and return to my comment. -make fairy weak to fire -make electric weak to rock (so zaptos can join moltres and articuno in the 4x weak to rock gang) -make ghost resist fairy -make steel weak to electric -make water resist ground and rock (because obviously water needs a buff) -make rock weak to psychic (because why not)
I haven't considered most of these. I only wanted just a few things. Bug: Make it resist Fairy so it's mutual resistance. Type quirk is they speed up in Sun (like a built-in Chlorophyll). So basically if you use Sun on them to hit them harder, you run the risk of them swarming you. Grass: Make it mutual resistance with Fairy. Ice: Make it resist Water (so now it's mutual resistance), Ground and Dragon. Type quirk is it is immune to Powder moves and Leech Seed and Fire becomes neutral in Snow. Rock: Just give it a built-in Shell Armor.
8:50 three average types bug resist is wrong. Ground is within the top 4 for offensive types. In false swipe gaming, they often praise grass types for resisting ground like shaymin. So bug is a pretty good defense type.
I hope you'll do a follow-up to this one; looking how various dual-types will now be affected, akin to the Ice buff videos. It'll obviously be a ton more work, having altered more types than just Ice. But still! And great work, these videos are a blast to watch!
Or cassette beasts where all the "super effective" and "not very effective" hits will cause a status effect that can be either beneficial or detrimental depending on the type of damage, with a full explanation as to why it happens.
I made my own type chart that has many changes, keeping in mind various factors like movepools, abilities, number of mons, and average stats. Tried it in my version of inclement emerald and it's been awesome. I'm glad I didn't buff poison too much because I made them supereffective against water and neutral against steel and in hoenn that's really good lol so I had to balance it out in other ways. I made at least one change to every type so all mons feel fresh.
Personally I think Steel should be super effective against Dragon, to give Dragon another weakness while giving Steel a bit more of an offensive presence - flavour it as dragonslayers or something - but in exchange make it weak to Electric, for the same reason Electric beats Water. I'd also consider making Fairy resist Ghost, under the idea of Purity cleansing the Spirit, and making Psychic resist Fairy, with a sort of "not believing in myth" as an explanation. I feel like these changes would help reign a couple standout types in without being too oppressive to any of them, as well as further connecting the type chart so that you don't just have an exclusive club of types that don't really interact with the rest of the chart.
I do think steel needs nerfing, it doesn't make sense how Electric is not effective against something it conducts well. Also I would like a nerf to fairy as well.
Two buffs I like for underpowered types that weren't mentioned in the video: 1. STAB psychic moves shouldn't be able to miss, outside of OHKO moves. Obviously, this just makes sense from a thematic standpoint, but it also brings psychic closer to the offensive powerhouse it once was. 2. Normal types should get a 2x STAB multiplier instead of a 1.5x one, as it's the only type that doesn't deal super-effective damage. Pray for anyone about to get hit by Bloodmoon Ursaluna, though.
On your video on the Ice type I had strongly opposed the changes except for resisting Electric. I had some thought about it and started to agree with the Water resistance on a situational basis (i.e., during Hail/Snow). I still like the idea of Ice being a "hard" type like Rock and Steel which are also weak to Fighting, and that it should resist Normal as the other "hard" types. That would also make Ice a suitable type for early gym gameplay, given how common Normal type attacks are early game. Some of the changes I've been planning for a fangame I working on: - Ice resists Ice, Electric (inspired by your video), Normal... and Water (during Hail/Snow, also inspired by your video) - Bug resisting Fairy is something I had thought about too, reassuring to see other people also think this change would make sense. Bug SE against Ground is something I'm considering but I'd rather work on Bug resistances because many other more viable types can use bug moves. I'm conflicted on Bug being immune to confusion but I'd be open to Bug getting some unorthodox interaction like that, just need to get my head around the immune to confusion thing (or think of an alternative) - Grass: had trouble thinking on something here because all of their type interactions just make so much sense to me. The alternative that I was considering for my fangame to make then more useable was to make leech seed an entry hazard that saps HP on switch-in, and make Grass types absorb it like Poison types absorb toxic spikes. I'm conflicted with Grass resisting Ghost that you proposed, but think Grass resisting Fairy makes sense. I'm just afraid of ending up making Fairy the Psychic 2.0 which was OP then became overnerfed with time. As you mentioned, Grass is a very difficult one to touch that's why I went for the adjusting leech seed route. - Psychic resists and is SE on Fairy. For reasons other people mentioned. - Fairy is resisted by Bug now but is NOT resisted by Fire anymore (like, why??) - Ghost: I didn't touch it's type interaction, what I thought was making Curse an entry hazard when used by Ghosts. Normal would be immune and Fairy could clear the curse away from the user side.. but I'm still working on this idea. Now on the other types you changed that I wasn't planning to touch on the fangame but now I might: - Agreed on Poison SE on Water. I actually had thought about it at some point. - Agreed on Rock breaking stealth rock (maybe absorbing it and healing HP in the process, as usually their bodies are made of rock?). Kinda agree on it resisting Rock but I'd keep the Ground weakness - I'm worried about Ghost losing those resistances, but that'd probably need to be tested on some Showdown alternative format maybe.
That seems fun, too. Leech Seed as a hazard is interesting and sounds so wild. You already can Spin seeds away, so as a hazard you can't switch out of, my goodness what a buff. Curse as a hazard sounds strong too. Since Ghost is good offensively right now.
Normal doesn't need to be nerfed offensively. It's already resisted by 2 types and infective against 1 type. Another resistance would make it have worse neutral coverage than several other types which can hit things for SE with their STAB. It makes no sense to buff Psychic offensively with the pretext it's "too weak" while nerfing Normal, because both have the exact same neutral coverage... except that Psychic can hit 2 types for SE and Normal can't.
@@gsp6517 I wouldn't consider it that much of a nerf as many normal types can actually learn coverage moves from several different types. That's where their SE comes from, as their STAB never gets SE.
@@giovani_luiz The main form of coverage most Normal types get is the elemental punches and fangs, which have 75 BP at best. It's not the huge asset you think it is. Also, using coverage as an excuse to nerf Normal STAB to the ground is a dubious argument at best, as is it something which could be also applied to the types you chose to buff offensively (aka Psychic). Also, Normal having worse neutral coverage than types which can actually hit things for SE damage is still stupid from a game design sense.
I always said (and thought back in the day) that Poison should be super effective against Fighting. I still remember my frustration when I finally managed to hit a Machop with a poison attack... and it wasn't super effective. Poison literally... poisons your body, and Fighting types are the ones who most use their bodies to, well, fight! And it's a classic trope, the bad guys poisoning the heroes in order to get an advantage in the fight.
Bug does have a give/take it's strong against two important types to be strong against. Those being psychic and dark. Dark being a common decent defensive type and psychic being a type that's always had a lot of relevance
So on the point of poison. I think originally it was supposed to both resist and hit psychic types super effectively. Poison was also likely originally intended to cut special attack just like burn cuts physical attack, but because of the gen 1 unified stat, it was probably too much to balance before they shipped the product. It is my opinion that the intention for Gengar and Beedrill was to be good against psychic types, but when coding they made poison weak to psychic instead of resisting it. Think of it as a mage getting assassinated, as ninja/rogues are often seen as anti-mages. This would fix a ton of gen 1 imbalance on its own.
Since you suggested to look at other games and their elemental systems, I'll bring up the two I'm most familiar with. Despite my best efforts, it's a long comment, so brace yourselves, pals. 1) Puppet Dance Performance. This game is very strongly inspired by Pokémon, so direct comparison works very well. It has its own types and interactions, in my opinion much better than Pokémon's. Every type has, at most, four of a given non-neutral interaction, and equal or close enough amounts of positives and negatives. (Then there's Dream-type, which is neutral to and from everything). Special cases with gimmicks, field effects and statuses exist (e.g. Nether-type can't be trapped, Dream-type can't be "stopped" -basically sleep-) but don't upset balance much. Even so, the developer didn't nail it first try; some types still felt in need of a little push or slight nerf, and Wind-type was overpowered, so they added Warped-type to improve things in the Shard of Dreams expansion. 2) Cassette Beasts. This game has its own take on types altogether; instead of focusing on them as damage multipliers, they cause temporary buffs and debuffs, or in a few cases, a temporary type change (e.g. If you're ice and get hit by fire, you become water for three turns). See, a common criticism Pokémon gets is type effectiveness being _way too important_ compared to other aspects of the combat system (the most common suggestion being to reduce the damage multipliers). While this criticism has been applied to both PvP and story, the point is best illustrated on the story side of things by people who say "these games are too easy because I just have to click super-effective attacks and watch as almost everything gets one-shot from full health". Cassette Beasts, by instead using a system that integrates types into other mechanics (stat modifiers, status effects, etc), offers an alternative that keeps types relevant without making them overcentralize the gameplay. ❤
I love those ideas. Yes, Pokémon is so heavily based on type effectiveness and switching, and some people still don't get that. It makes discussion really difficult sometimes, especially since this Pokémon might be the only turn based game they've ever played or are capable of beating. Shin Megami Tensei's type effectiveness (at least the ones with the press turn system) is often just to get extra turns. I had trouble with SMT:IV because Pokémon previously was the only JRPG I played. Made me realize how easy Pokémon is with a lot of game design decisions. Healing is always free (initially it was probably to compensate for only trainers giving money). Buffing and debuffing isn't necessary, and you can only apply one main status at a time. The INSTANT a demon stops pulling its weight, you need to replace it, none of that "Strong Pokémon, weak pokémon, blah, blah friendship" philosophy. If you miss, you and your teammates LOSE TURNS. Enemies can absorb attacks, be immune, or bounce back attack types and if they do any of the above, you also lose turns. And wild demons are always a threat, unlike wild Pokémon encounters. Don't even get me started on the "Smirk" mechanic which does a million things. I love SMT anyway. Pokémon will always be fun. Love catching, shiny hunting, Pokémon contests, competitive, spinoffs. Love it all. But Pokémon does need to stay very simple, because it has its niche as the most popular monster collector and most inclusive JRPG. And to stay inclusive, despite being text based, it needs to be playable and enjoyable even to people with 0 reading comprehension and low critical thinking skills, which is a fair amount of pokémon fans. Voice acting might help the series, but Pokémon fans may also have listening comprehension or memory issues too, so it doesn't completely fix the issue. It holds its niche well. But I should definitely give Casette Beasts a try.
I've always thought Ice should get immunity to ice, and then maybe give water weakness to ice; the ice/waters would remain immune and ice would be a strong offensive type with the drawback that ice types can switch in on you easily. Rock shouldn't be weak to ground.
bug should be inmune to "mental states" like taunt, infatuation or encore and maybe intimidate, same reason for be SE to dark, which Is... bug hasn't emotions or facial expresión? I'm not sure, but quive dance and sticky web go brrr
It'd be cool if you highlighted some matchups that would be affected by this new type chart, especially involving dual types and previously very bad matchups.
* Bug: I agree with all your changes in Bug. * Ice: I agree with Ice resisting Electric for lore (ice is a poor conductor in any form, just like snow) and balance issues. After all, it prevents this type from being a such nuisance for Water types, encouraging the users exploring the other Water weakness (Grass) as an alternative, but I would keep the rest like the same. * Rock: Not bad. I can buy it, specially the part of breaking Stealth Rock, one of the worst introductions for the battle system. * Grass: I'd still make Flying resisting Grass. I totally agree Grass should resist or even be immune against Fairy types, but I think Grass should resist Dark instead of Ghost, since plants can repel "evil spirits or negative energy", which seems to be more associated with Dark types. Besides, we've already removed a Ghost resistance when we fixed Bug trade-offs. * Poison: I agree that Poison could have been SE against Water. I'd still keep Ghost resisting Poison types, since Poison hitting harder two top/high tier types already enhances greatly its significance.
It is always fun trying to improve the type chart and your ideas are pretty decent. But I do believe that types don't need to be equal from a type chart perspective and that Pokemon with bad types should be given tools to make up for that. The only thing I disagree with is giving Bug an intrinsic immunity to Confusion. I think that this is far more logical for Psychic types. In fact, type intrinsic protections are also a nice topic to fantasize about.
Honestly, I like most of these changes, And while I'm a bit surprised you reverted the ground resistance, I do think the type might be good enough without it.
The goofy thing about the bug type is that most of the interactions assume that bugs are the smallest animal. Like rock beats bug because you can smash a spider with a rock. Fire beats bug because you can burn bees nests. flying beats bug because birds eat bugs. Meanwhile a caterpie is as tall as a pidgey or a geodude. I think if there were bugs that were as tall as birds, then the adults would be protecting the eggs just like mammals or birds.
honestly dont have an issue with the audio, your voice sounds really clear, just on the ASMR side. Some may have an issue, but I wouldnt stress too much about it man. Good video!
Steel’s resistance to psychic could become a weakness whilst keeping steel neutral against psychic as it fits the theme of manipulating or warping hard objects with telekinetic powers like Alakazam, whilst also reducing steel’s overwhelming defensive presence and providing the relatively weak offensive type of psychic with significant coverage of a powerful type.
Steel honestly needs a nerf, it's supposed to be a defensive wall yet is still better than a lot of types offensively? I would either remove the ice or rock super effectiveness and add some resistances, maybe bug or poison since bugs can't be squished easily by metal objects and poison can be corrosive towards steel
As a whole I love this video. I'm trying to make my own pokédex of "fakemon", and one thing I tried was also creating 2 more types to round the chart from 18 to 20, but In the end I gave up on the idea because as a guy who had minimal knowledge into balancing the pokemon type chart, i thought it would be safer to try and adjust the canon types and even I knew that was easier said than done, I only fully grasped that doing it. Like beyond the types covered here, I was trying to find a way to offensively differentiate the dark and ghost types because both types having the exact same super effectivness bothers me a lot. I decided on giving a third super effective type to each, fairy for ghost and normal for dark (trading the fighting being super effective on them for Gighting resisting normal) and even the, this feels reckless, you can only realize the balance of things when you only go down to it XS...
You can split the flying into flying/bird and wind types and split psychic into psychic and cosmic. Giving ghost 2x I'd the way to go. Electric gains a weakness and since supernatural stuff messes with electronics it's thematic, too.
My question is... ...where are the Psychic type buffs? It has virtually no advantages on top pf debilitating weaknesses to some of the most common moves in the game and has HORRENDOUS dual type synergy
Water finally being a balanced type thanks to being worse vs Poison/Ice is what I like best here. Excellent changes and reasoning overall, wish they'd implement these changes in the games.
All I wanted were these changes: Bug and Grass resist Fairy. Ice resist Water and Ground but receive super-effective damage from Scald. Frostbite replaces Freeze and Frostbite chance doubles when the user is Ice type. Snow increases the chance of Ice type Pokemon to cause Frostbite with their moves. Ghost and Fairy super-effective against each other. Poison and Dark super-effective against each other. Psychic unaffected by Taunt, Encore, Torment, Heal Block and Disable (including Cursed Body). Basically a built in Mental Herb except for Infatuate. Rock immune to Stealth Rock damage and knocks them on entry. Rock Polish removes hazards on your side of the field when used. (If they're not going to make a Rock-type Rapid Spin)
Just make grass power up based on weather, in the sun grass type moves are powered up and speed doubles, in the rain defenses doubles and gains a resistance to fire and poison, in sand water type moves are absorbed and flying types are resisted also life drain moves are powered up and absorb more health, in hail/snow speed is cut but defenses are doubled, if Tailwind is up, defense and attack go up also powder and spore moves become more accurate
READ ME and the video description for corrections and info:
- This video is by popular request from viewers.
- The description and video say this, but I'll say it once more here: The type chart should be tested and revised, and I certainly don't think this is perfect or definitive. Like Game Freak, I had to put something out there to get a starting point, and then revise it.
- There were rendering issues where no matter how much I re-rendered the video, it did not line up with what I put and was seeing on the timeline. Like the placard for Poison that pops in suddenly instead of showing up at the start of the section like the others. I gave up, my time is better spent on a different video.
- The audio is better but worse in a different way. I'm properly hydrated (according to my clinician). Still experimenting with different mic placements, different mics, sound treatment, pop filters, holding a pencil between my lips, different audio filters, the list goes on. I honestly spend more time reading and watching guides to audio, recording, and re-recording than anything else related to making TH-cam videos. Better quality audio will come with time and practice I suppose, because the biggest problem seems to be capturing quality audio to begin with. This isn't a source of income, but I'd still like to take it seriously. This is also why I don't stream, despite the requests, but I'd certainly love to.
- I already respected TH-camrs, after all we should be treating everyone with respect and consideration, but my goodness, TH-camrs have a way of making it look like good audio is plug and play, and it's amazing.
- Also adding the type chart here too: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mm3dff4C_4ma3A1Z0wMoK2zAI-SRA0ho/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=104403480346576817236&rtpof=true&sd=true
best idea i would suggest is someone make a emulator of S/V on PC and make these type changes and make it public and see what people think.
Grass could easily become immune to Fairy. logic being Fairy being unable to harm nature.
The theoretical Bug/Dragon who is hit neutrally by fairy and can't confuse itself with outrage.
Yeah that would acc be broken af
Exactly what flygon deserves to differentiate itself from all the other dragons. With its stats it wouldn’t be broken either
@@Midnight-hz3ep exactly, just look how it is in radical red for example
Yanmega should be bug dragon 1000%
@@colecronin7660 It would be good, but definitely not broken. Either having its held item slot always used up (heavy duty boots) or taking 25% from stealth rock is a serious offset. You would need it to have volcarona tier stats AND distribution in order for it to be on the level of broken.
I thought you were crazy making Bug immune to confusion, but I also forgot that Electric is immune to all paralysis now.
Bugs can't become dizzy, which seems to be the direct inspiration for confusion
@@mertensiam3384 I hate to break it to you, but bugs most certainly can be made confused and dizzy. Look up spiders making webs in space, or bees that are sleep continually sleep deprived.
@@HesGotaGun505 not by spinning
bugs dont live in space soo@@HesGotaGun505
@@mertensiam3384I wouldn't consider confuse ray or psybeam as "spinning"
Poison should ABSOLUTELY be super-effective vs Water types, for both logical and balance decisions.
Why logical reasons? The only reason water pollution exists is because of humans. We spill or leak oil, use chemical containers city sewage, industrial waste discharge, and many more, which results in water pollution. It's not like poison just stays there or grows in size, it breaks over time. Sure, it takes a lot of time, but still.
Also, water is actually one of the best ways to dilute the poison.
I don't really like Poison being strong against Water personally. Idk, just feels weird to me.
@@Deadflower019Nobody cares what's weird to you.
@@geenalawrence8338 L
@@Deadflower019 why not? It's called pollution, it was talked about in the video... Also Water only has 1 weakness (Grass doesn't count) which is blatantly OP, needs nerfs.
I think Bug should be super effective against Ground.
Plenty of insects are capable of burrowing through, and sometimes even eating, dirt and mud, so it would make sense if Bug Pokémon could majorly damage Pokémon with that kind of material on them.
It makes sense thematically and it boosts Bug types offensively as Ground is a very common type in all aspects of Pokémon, though primarily in competitive play, due to Ground's strong offensive presence.
I think the fire is immune to burn, grass is immune to powder moves and ghost can excape anytime. So bug pokemon should have a damage increase in multihitt moves rollout, Pin missles, bullet seed and Fury attack.
Fire should not be immune to having their attack halved that would be stupid
@@finna1002 look if fire types are any type of fighting style its fire power. Also bug Pokemon getting abilities like technician, shed skin and compound eyes is a waste just give it as a type bonus.
Poison should be super effective against ground and it should also resist it
I think that would work better as bug type move that works like freeze-dry where it functions normally except when targeting a specific type. You could give that to bug types that burrow like nincada and durant without having strange match ups using those that don't burrow like dustox or pineco
I think the only thing I'm not sure about is Rock Types removing Stealth Rock upon switching in, they could be immune to them, much like they are immune to Sandstorm, but just the thought of seeing tyranitar even more than I've seen it all my life, but now it removes stealth rock while at the same time spitting sand in your face, that sounds like overkill
I honestly think its okay. Rocks (and passive damage as a whole) are incredibly oppressive and it wasnt until fairly recently in pokemon that hazard removing options were actually good. Being able to remove them without having to dedicate a moveslot and a turn to get rid of them that gives your opponent to abuse that sounds reasonable
Poison spikes already gets removed that way.
It definitely nerfs stealthrocks quite substantially, but maybe nerf is nessisary(?)
@@benlee7565 I'm not *fully* up to date with the competitive scene in ersonal experience right now altough I watch a lot of content about it, but as I have it understoon, Poison types are much rarer than Rock types (specially again with the eternal prevalence of tyranitar) and thus Poison Spikes can be played around much easier since their damage is applied after the turn. I had also understood that Stealth Rock is what keeps several pokemon from breaking the meta, since the introduction of Heavy Duty Boots made okay or goodish pokemon shoot straight into Ubers (I THINK the most prominent case was cinderace, but I might be wrong), and it was something about Stealth Rock preventing hyper offense solo pokemon, as well as soft-capping stall/defensive pokemon
@@boldknock7436 there is no need to nerf hazard anymore except nerfing gholdengo ability. Hazards are what keeps offensive and defensive powerhouse in check. For example, you can just look at Volcarona in gen7: it was great and a top setup sweeper despite the quad weakness to stealth rock being present; as such it would have get immediately banned due to how op a set composed of HP ground/flamethrower/roost/quiver dance would hav been (only checks being in chansey, blissey and quagsire). Hazards ARE opressive because most (if not all) pokemon we plays are weak to it.
@@Nedoikotyranitar isn't that ubiquitous rn
Someone should make this an alt format on Showdown, just to see what happens with it. It'd be really cool to see how the meta shifts.
It wouldn't get enough players sadly
Ice types would be so busted. He took the glass cannon type and made it bulkier.
More like it needs a lot of practical testing.
@@greattitan371 "Glass Canon Type", There are litterally ice type pokemon designed to be tanks, which they fail at because of the current system
@@wires-sl7gs Yes. Not all types are created in the same way. Ice isnt supposed to be a defensive type. Some pokemon that are ice type have high defenses to offset this. Doesnt mean the type should just get made bulky all of a sudden
Grass is one of those types that looks weak on paper but they are actually extremely strong due to how they play into the meta. Wide access to sleep and healing with Synthesis, support moves like Aromatherapy, Amoongus the powerhouse and for a brief period the rulers of strong priority. Grass is actually the most common type in VGC; That is to say, there are always multiple grass types in the meta.
And in singleplayer grass is the only type to both resist and be super effective against water and ground. Two very very common types in regular pokemon. I mean water is just... so... so common.
I’m currently developing my own ROM hack which includes changes to the type chart. I really liked some of the changes you proposed here, especially for Bug, Rock, and Grass types, so I may consider incorporating them in my own hack as well. Great video!
Cool!
Will you post news, updates on this matter on this comment thread?
Would be cool for people coming across this video in the future who may want to know what happened since then.
^ Seconding this.
Please keep us posted on this. I would love to play a RH with changes like the ones mentioned, so if yours gives us that chance, sign me up
So, uh, did you ever finish this?
The Corrosion ability needs way more distribution. Such a cool mechanic to introduce and then trapping it to one Pokémon is criminal.
And the fact the ability is on a partial fire type. You gave the ability that gives poison something to do against steel to the pokemon who resist steel and can just blow them away with flamethrower
Glimmora gets it too, but since its other ability its Toxic Debris and it's already setting up other hazards on top its Toxic Spikes it's already poisoning most things. I guess it's fine if you just really like pressing Mortal Spin.
Corrosion is also a flawed ability. It basically only affects Toxic, Poison Gas and any other non-poison moves that can poison because the effect of steel being immune to the poison type nullifies the chance for moves like Sludge Bomb to poison. This is relevant for Glimmora who can't poison Steel types with Mortal Spin because it inflicts a small amount of damage : - )
@@floofzykitty5072 Maybe it could make poison moves super effective against steel as well.
It is on 2 pokemon lines.
Grass is kind of incredible because on the surface it looks terrible, but the good traits it has are just THAT good and justify everything else, I'd just leave it as is
I heard Serperior is pretty good because of it's Hidden Ability Contrary and now it's going to get access to Terastalization. I also think it should be given Overheat and Draco Meteor.
It speaks more about how OP Water and Ground. Grass is still horrendous offensively.
It's more of the movepools and abilities that make them good. Give spore or contrary leafstorm/Draco to better typings (dragon, steel, fairy for example) and they'd become utter monsters. The grass typing itself is a hindrance but the tools they get are what make them somewhat viable
@@leebulger7112why would a pure Grass type get overheat and draco meteor
@@inqyr4707 Because they are like Leaf Storm but better and can be used with Contrary and now Serperior can Terastalize into Fire or Dragon.
I feel like at this point CammyMeeleTea should just get all the changes to Pokémon they've made throughout the channel and make a fan game out of it. That'd be genuinely awesome.
My changes would go towards buffing Psychic. People forget that Psychic itself is an average to bad typing because it's dominance in Gen 1 and how many legendaries are part Psychic so I would add a couple of buffs to it. First being it resists Ground, this is because of how many psychic pokemon can float or levitate, which is the same reason Bug resists ground. The second it becomes SE on Fairy, which can be justified as using their superior power and control over "magic", I would also switch Steel's resistance to Psychic and make it so Bug resists it instead.
I'd make Rock strong against Fairy, because it's the closest thing to represent salt, which fairies hate in lore. It's a very common type with accessible moves. And also, Stealth Rock might help nerfing and ruining most fairies, like how the moved ruined ice type Pokemon. This could be the fairy nerf everyone wanted.
I used to agree with the Rock and Fairy interaction, but then they made Garganacl's family salt specifically, and now I'm conflicted.
The thing is rock is already arguably the best offensive type in the game as it is super effective against more things than it is resisted by and nothing is imuned to it. What it really needs is a defensive buff. Personally I'm not in favour of removing the ground weakness as it's completely logical, but rather make it resist elektrik, bug and maybe also lose the steel type weakness. Hitting a rock with a sword destroys the sword, not the rock, and rocks are generally not conducive, and not gonna be armed by a bug.
Speaking of bug types I like the idea of bug being strong against every super natural type. Like make them resist psychic, ghost and fairy, those types are treated as very strong types in lore and I find it ilarious for bug types to beat them. Also make it neutral on flying, and compensate those with an ice resist and losing the grass type resist.
Then you would rely on rock and stealth rocks to handle balancing, and i don't believe that's a way you want to follow. I would try to make changes that are as flexible as possible
@@artimist0315 Rock might be great offensively but it doesn't matter since 95% of rock types are physical and there's like 3 100% accurate rock moves (Accelerock, Smack Down and Salt Cure)
now granted it's very easy to just click Stone Edge, but there is a reason it's been dubbed "Stone Miss" in the community.
I thought ghost hates salt? Not fairies.
Okay, so, I think fairy and bug should resist each other, as fairies hold dominion over nature, but bugs are big enough to hold their own against the fey.
Compared to fairies most fairies are kind of bigger than bugs
In the game I'm making, I've also been rebalancing the type chart. Something I learned quickly is to keep it intuitive, I tried buffing ice by having fire do neutral using logic. but it felt terrible in testing and instantly made me reconsider the way I balance it.
What about ice neutral vs. fire types? Thats how it worked in gen 1, although on that note Fire is notoriously terrible in gen 1/Kanto 😂
@@frogwhisperer4268 that's what I eventually landed on. I think it makes a for a interesting interaction too.
Don’t do it like Gen 1, just make Ice resist Water and Grass
@@princesscrystal6410 I think I've also added those aswell as the buff to hail/snow raising defense I though I need to keep a close eye on if it's maybe too much.
@@sonatuh Maybe have it resist normal types? Because ice is hard. (same logic as rock/steel is hard, thus normal attacks are resisted)
I'd add flying to ice's resistances. People use fans to cool off, flying is basically the wind type.
Bug actually sort of has a theoretical trade-off to being so resisted, the fact that they have many moves with good effects. U-Turn, Lunge, Bug Buzz, First Impression, Quiver Dance, Tail Glow…
Unfortunately in reality types like Water and Dark get stuff like Scald, Chilling Water, Nasty Plot, Sucker Punch and Knock Off with wide distribution on strong Pokémon and with an actually good type.
I agree, but now that we know that anything can be Dexited at any time, it becomes a crutch that can be robbed at anytime.
They added all these things Generation 4 and onwards and we have to hope they don't get removed.
Imagine an alternate universe where Water type was bad and was only good because of Scald. It makes me wonder if people would still hate Scald as much or if people wanted it to stay because it's all that Water had. These are the kinds of things I think.
I kinda don't trust them to not remove the only things making them relevant.
I'm not super on board with having grass naturally resist ghost but I think a good compromise would be to introduce an ability that specifically reduces damage from ghost moves, similar to Purifying Salt and just distribute it to a bunch of grass Pokemon that fit the lore concept
Ghost and Dark only hit the same types for SE, I don't see why one would waste an ability slot for either.
You're right about the shifting philosophy with the type chart, how it wasn't originally tended as this perfectly sculpted competitive metagame, and how it can shift over time. I like the _idea_ of each type having a mechanical identity, like a tank or a glass cannon, but there are too many factors working against that; most notably, I think, that Pokémon can learn moves of other types. STAB is an incentive, but not enough to make you choose an ice type glass cannon over a water type tank that can still use Ice Beam well enough, but take hits way more effectively. It'd be interesting to see what the games would look like if Pokémon only got moves of their own type - maybe an exception for Normal. As it stands, a type's defences are just significantly more important than offences - which is exactly why Ice, a great attacking type, is one of the worst types in the game, whilst Steel, a terrible attacking type, is the best type in the game.
I also have to wonder what it would look like if, rather than modifying the existing chart, the type chart was scrapped entirely and rebuilt from the beginning to serve as a balanced metagame. If that were the case, I can't imagine Steel keeping all of those resistances, but in reality it's so ingrained in consciousness as the type that resists everything.
Yes, you get it exactly. That's why I always stress in my videos to step back from whatever game mode of pokémon that they play the most and look at the full picture. What still serves its purpose, what doesn't? Does it even need to serve the same purpose?
There's so many amazing ideas I see in my video comments and other pokémon video comments that don't fit with pokémon at, or would be really hard to cohesively implement, but would be amazing if a game was built with the idea in mind. I get that it's hard to make more monster catchers, but there's a lot of good ideas I'd hate to see die.
12:34 I love your respecting the mighty rock type and nothing is tougher than stone
“Poison now hits Water super effectively”
Azumarill: “haha, I’m in danger”
It’d be nice if GameFreak were capable of having more people test possible alterations to type interactions. Alas, such a small and poor company can’t afford that.
Gotta say, I never thought of the changes to grass, mainly because while being of the weakest types, it is also most certainly of the most viable and useful "weak" types competitively, just look at the Gen 9 comp scene and the sheer number of pokemon that run Tera Grass. That being said, it still could use a buff and I gotta admit your changes to it were my favourite of the bunch.
As for poison, I fully agree, I've always thought that water should be weak to it, with the pollution logic in mind, though I always feared it could hit a couple of pokemon too hard, but after thinking it again... I dont think there's a single offense oriented Poison type that really ever succeeds because of being poison, its usually because of a secondary typing, or they just arent successful in offense at all, and pair that up with how borderline busted water type is, I think it'd be a totally fair change, water has had it good for way too long, is it supposed to be a tanky archetype? an offensive one? or an all rounder? Right now it way too good at everything as a type, hence why it usually ranks among the top with Fairy.
With bug I fully agree on everything, for the life of me I cannot understand what their logic behind some of the deicsions (and lack there of) with it are... especially why GHOST resists it (fairy too)... I like all the change applied to bug, they're supposed to be speedy mainly, offensive too but most of their archetype revolves on being agile and fast so I think the changes you suggest are good. The only remotely useful thing Bugs have right now is resisting one of the best offensive types in the game, Ground, but that is heavily offset by literally everythingelse the type brings to the table.
Finally I was always afraid of hitting Ghosts too hard to make them not resist bug and poison anymore, but honestly I dont see why they do, those two types were already weak offensively without that it really wasnt needed... I can see the logic behind the poison resistance, they're ghostly otherworldly creatures, so they arent exactly prone to fall "ill" per se... but from a balance perspective I dont really see much of a point in doing it other than hitting a bad type when its down already. Besides ghosts specialty is more on offense as well as disruption and support, the lack of types that resist it is part of what makes them good, so losing out on their defensive aspect shouldnt be much of a big deal (Thought BIG rip to the abundance of Grass/Ghost mons GF seems to have fallen in love with since Gen 6 LMAO)
Cos grass has spore idk why this guy thinks grass is weak
@@finna1002Spore is only learned by a handful of things though, and only like two of them are good (because as it turns out, having one good move does nothing to offset bad stats and bad typing). Hardly something that improves the type as a whole. (And this is exactly one of the couple reasons why Cammy stressed that they wouldn't fixate on specific mons, moves, etc to 'indirectly' balance types).
For my part, I kind of appreciate what they were going for with Grass-type, as specializing in status effects and other gimmicks (complete with being immune to many of their own tricks) in exchange for getting shortchanged within the type chart itself. But this didn't quite work and left them still pretty underwhelming, not least because type effectiveness is as important as it is in Pokémon. And it feels even worse because as one of the starter types, you'd expect extra care to be put into making it a good type.
Grass is a bad type; its only situationally good currently because the best tera types currently (water/ Fairy), happen to be weak or neutral to grass. That was by chance, and prior to tera, grass was only good because sub seed; or rillaboom grassy terrain.
I also agree with Cammy, I never understood why grass was weak to flying, or resisted by flying. Few birds damage plants, most are symbiotic. N trees generally evolved to resist strong winds in areas that have it.
@@wmzer0mw The only thought process I can think of regarding flying's resistance to grass is that plants are usually associated with the earth, which works against them if a bird is up high and you're rooted down below.
However, grass being weak to flying is less conceptual to me because pokémon can move and have very good speeds, removing the idea that a plant is "defenseless" against aerial attacks (and most birds don't eat plants anyway, just the fruit, which isn't vital to the plants' survival, unlike bug types). One could argue that their roots can't handle strong winds, but then again, neither can steel if the wind is strong enough, and steel resists flying no matter what x)
I'd say Grass should lose the Flying weakness and be neutral to it, while Flying could continue to resist grass
I completely agree Ice should resist Water, but the move Scald should hit Ice types for super effective damage. Similar to how Freeze dry hits Water types super effectively!
th-cam.com/video/IO5zctOUV5k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cQuViY31dZBsw2b0
I find it very interesting, and equally annoying, how Dark types are immune to ALL moves affected by the ability Prankster, no matter what type the move is.
Being honest, on the glass cannon perspective of ice type, I think this should be the change:
Keep all ice type weakness, but now the only type that resist ice is Steel and ice is immune against itself, on super effective area, keep the ones we have, but not only we have acess to freeze dry to hit water for super effective, but we should make someone like that to hit steel super effectively, but these 2 moves should be learnt only by ice types, this way we can make the hyper offensive type, everyone can make some use with it, being strong against 4 types and only resisted by one and immune by itself, but ice type pokemons have a bonus in some special moves which add them more options to hit super effectively, going to a max of 6 types, a record, it would be really good against a lot of dual types because of the 4x damages, making that even the more bulky and slow pokemons can be an offensive threat if not delt with
Also, we should really have gen 9 snow than old hail, and frost bite instead of freeze, I like ice type being more gimmeckish than an average and standard type, the idea of not being able to protect yourself from ice, just fighting it back is interesting to me, like in real life where people and animals always looked for shelter from the coldness, and plants either died or found ways to survive, most living beings can't naturally deal with the cold, and even the ones that can, just lower even more the temperature and they can't anymore
If you REALLY want to remove one of ice's weakness, remove fighting, really, rock is already weak overall, fire makes sense and steel is the only one to keep it's resistance, now fighting, not only is the most whatever of the group, but back then, fighting was weak only against flying and psychic, even if ghost was immune, they were not offensively weak against it, while still being able to hit 5 types for super effective damage, what is more than even Ice's natural power, so if it's to nerf someone's offense to help ice, it should DEFINITIVELY be fighting
I’ve literally been looking for a video like this for months, oh my gosh thank you so much. After watching Wolfey’s videos on fixing the bug and ice type, I couldn’t believe I couldn’t find more videos like them.
Poor Ghost got nothing but debuffs. It already claims the weakest uber legendary.
As someone once pointed out to me when I wanted to make Water weak to Poison, it would make 2 of the starter types weak to the same type. Grass and Water already have a lot of overlap offensively, both hitting Rock and Ground, and further increasing that similarity might not be ideal. At the same time, I can't really justify any other type being weak to Poison.
Types in Pokémon are also more like different energies that Pokémon can draw that they are not necessarily a part of. Like Flygon could be four types but it’s only two but it can still draw from closely related types. But Pokémon often take from far away types that only through a stretch could they really use and mostly for “balance” reasons (as if Pokémon has ever been balanced).
Thematically, Poison’s weaknesses to Ground and Psychic never made sense to me. I think it would make sense to make it weak to Fire, since many toxic liquids and gases are flammable. Although that might make Fire OP since it’s already super effective against 4 types, some of which are really common.
if a poisoned person eats dirt, they'll be okay
Psychic is strong again Poison because Psychics and other media purify their mind From all impurities
Toxic waste is burried deep underground. Also ,,paychic'' powers are used to cure diseases
Ground being effective against poison is because of some japanese thingy where you can heal poisoning using sand.
Psychic is because of human intelligence being able to create cures to many illnesses
I really enjoyed the video and do think the type chart does need some updating but I must say the best part of the video is when you kept saying “magic” 😂
Overall pretty good video and I can agree on most of them, I just REALLY don't like Ice resisting Electric. Electric though potent since it hits Water, (a super common defensive type) cutting it down by making Ice resist Electric and Poison hit Water super effectively, it's basicially making Poison REPLACE Electric. And while I like the poison-type, I don't like this idea.
A few changes I would propose:
1. Make Fighting weak to Poison. The logic is that poison can negatively affect your ability to use your muscles.
2. Make Fighting resist itself. If you punch a martial artist, it affects them less since they're trained to take it.
Okay, the big ones are under the read more. Hear me out on them.
3. Make Normal resist Fairy. An odd one, but my argument is a Peter Pan reference, specifically something called the Tinkerbell Effect. The idea is that something exists solely because people believe in it; in contrast, that means that not believing in something strips it of its power over you. And since fairies exist outside of what we consider normal, it makes sense that the type would at least resist Fairy if not outright be immune to it.
4. Make Normal resist Psychic. Same logic as the Fairy argument; skeptics see through mediums and stage magicians all the time, so have the plainest type be less affected by what is essentially the Magic-type.
5. Have Normal interact with Dragon somehow. I've gone back and forth on this, but I could see it either way. You could make it resist Dragon using the same logic as my Fairy argument; if you don't believe in the fantasy creature, it can't hurt you. At the same time, an ordinary person being disembowelled by the dragon in front of them with little effort also justifies giving it a weakness to Dragon.
Poison being super effective to water and Bug resisting fairy is genius
I've actually been working on a type chart re-balance off and on for a bit and I saw a lot of the same thought processes. I used the value system (1 strength is +1, 1 weakness is -1, and immunities are +/-2) as a guide to kind of help with some of the see-saw balancing bit of it with the ideal being all types having 0 value. I more just reduced the range from 8 to -5 down to 4 to -2 with like all but 3 types being 1 to -1 value. I've also done a decent amount of testing of it through a modified version of Pokabbie's Pokemon Emerald Rogue I made and a lot of the changes feel really good in general and even the nerfed types still see a lot of use. Stuff isn't really 100% where I'd want it, but I won't be tweaking it any further without further testing. Testing helped me actually remove rock's weakness to ground, undo an over-nerf to flying's offensive potential I did, and made me kind of realize that basically nothing should have 5 weaknesses. Would love to see some competitive players try and break it and see where a meta lands with this thing. Would also love more criticism in general for it. Probs went too change-heavy but meh, it was a fun personal project. I've got all the dual type resistances, an auto-updating spreadsheet and thematic/balance reasoning too if anyone wants any of that.
The actual changes below:
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10:40-I prefer if Bugs waked up 1 turn early, since most bugs in real life are naturally "Early Birds". I also think is better than give immunite because that would prevent bugs of using Rest.
I think It’d be cool if fire and ice hit each other super effectively. Because while yes, fire can melt ice if the fire is hot enough, ice can also kill a flame if it is cold enough to overwhelm the heat.
No
"Bug types resist 3 average types"
The Ground Resistance in the room
Yes, average. Pokémon's type bell curve isn't a bell curve where the 50th percentile is average. Average is more like the 60th to 70th percentile.
Fairy, Steel, and Water are above average on the bell curve.
Ice and Bug are very, very below average on the bell curve.
Ground is like 7/10. Average can still be great, relax dude.
Think about test scores, or at least how it's done in some places.
Test scores go from 65-100. You get a 0 for cheating or not showing up. Since the ability to actually score 0's is so unlikely, the standard distribution is skewed upwards. 50% isn't average anymore. Now it's somewhere in the mid 80's or something.
I.E. Ground is a B/B+ student, thus AVERAGE.
@@CammyMeeleTea Ah, okay, that makes sense. I was thinking less of Ground explicitly as a type and more Earthquake specifically. Resisting Earthquake is very good.
Damn you explained it so well, you got the exact target i wanted to point out: Pokemon is a magical world is not supposed to make that much sence.
Some neat ideas! I can’t really get behind Flying losing its resistance to grass, both from a lore perspective but also because Flying is hardly a top tier type in isolation anyway. But I feel your pain on Fairy/Bug
Huh, never thought about grass resisting fairy and ghost, but with that explanation it makes total sense.
Me personally, I would like to see these changes:
Ice would resist Dragon, ground, and itself. Dragon because most dragons are reptiles and can't deal with the cold and Ground because of permafrost.
Psychic would resist Fairy and hit Fairy super effectively. Reasoning is that if you're smart, you wouldn't believe in pixie fairy magic. Plus Psychic seriously needs a buff.
Bug would be neutral against Fairy. Why did Game freak make fairy resist bug to begin with?!?!
I do like your Bug being immune to confusion, so I would add that. Same with grass resisting ghost, but I would make fairy stay neutral since I believe Psychic needs the resistance more.
Last I would give steel its dark resistance back, but ghost can stay neutral. Reasoning is that ghosts can phase through and control metal objects, while dark is just Normal type attacks imbudded with evil energy. But you do make some decent changes that i would be happy with.
Definitely think that your revisions could be another good way to go about it.
Balance is hard. It's like a game of whack-a-mole. Since I made Poison hit a strong type like Water. People might actually need to use Psychic to threaten Poison. Ground can still be used of course, but Grass has more chances to come in now as well, so maybe people would use it slightly less. Plus, a good amount of pokémon on the special side get Psychic instead of Earth Power, so there might be more of a need for STAB Psychic? If people use Psychics more, then maybe people use the Bugs and Ghosts? Making Psychic better wasn't my goal, since it's just an average type, but these changes could have indirectly made them better or worse. Poison is better, Bug is better, Ghost is slightly worse. I wasn't aiming for trickle-down balancing, but things really do trickle down and ripple in ways we can't predict.
I agree that the Psychic Type needs a buff because it's only Super Effective against Fighting and Poison and there are better options against those Types like if you want to beat Poison you might as well use Ground.
From what I've heard time and time again, the reason fairy resists bug is basically due to U-turn spam and how it just reigned supreme in Gen 5, but then again, not sure how much Gamefreak cares about 6v6 singles so...
Honestly if I was in charge of the typechart I would change it so that most types just interact neutrally to each other. To kind of lean into the old "Elemental abilities are basically special magic/techniques" thing Gen 1 seemed to have been going for. There would still be stuff like fire being strong against Ice and Grass, but it would probably be limited to each type having a positive/negative relationship to only like, three to four types at a time.
Typing is mainly what give pokemon checks and counters. If you remove most of them, singles would mostly devolve into spamming strong attacks, because
1) Your enemy isn't likely to have a counter to your pokemon.
2) Even if they send in a check as a revenge killer, YOU aren't likely to have a counter to the check they send in.
@@CealdorGaming Singles isn't the intended PvP competitive mode anyway so I don't really care too much; And Singles is a parade of bans and clauses already, they will find a way to cobble something worthwhile together.
Otherwise, abilities, innate type features (Grass being immune to spores and such) and sparsely distributed moves should be enough to provide reasonable checks and balances.
Dark and Fairy should be super effective against each other .
EXACTLY
Dark really doesn’t need to become any more spammable than it already is
Ehhh, the lore reasoning is so good though, cause in fairytales/storys the Evil Bad Guy always loses
In every other rpg (for example smt) light and dark or good and evil always beat each other, and fairy is basically a light/good and dark is literally evil.
This seems to be implying that fairy is a light type when it its not.
I know bug doesn’t need another weakness, but an ice type weakness would make sense for them.
it would also help ice type
Nice video ^^
You forgot the Ki type tho
😱😱😱
If rock types actually had good HP and special defense maybe they could also be good walls. Also, there could be more speedy rock types. I find it weird ground doesn’t resist itself.
This might be too much but it might be cool if water resisted poison. But if a poison type hits a water type with a poison move it poison it, badly if poison is the primary type. Seems like way too much for a type but makes logical sense since water dissapates poison at the cost of having poison in it now. I think it would be a cool interaction.
I still want to see the change between steel, psychic, and dark because steel or metal in general is known to useful in protecting against and helping defeat evil aka dark, while the thing psychics are most known for is BENDING METAL!!! SO
why tf does steel resist psychic??? And also it makes no sense for dark types to be immune to prankster, it would've made much mrope sense for psychics to be immune because someone who can read your mind and predict the future is never going to be pranked, that's the reason why psychic surge nullifies all priority moves, evil has no correlation with pranking
That moment when all four types shown in the thumbnail are your favorite types:
Another problem for me is that Ghost and Dark are basically the same type offensively - SE on Ghost and Psychic. I think they can both each use another SE different from each other. Like maybe Ghost SE on Fighting and Dark SE on Steel.
I can see why ghost would be SE on fighting, but dark on steel is gonna need way too much cope and justification
Ghost is already an overtuned offensive type, so it doesn't need another SE type to hit with its STAB.
@@gsp6517 it only hits 2 types for SE i don't think it's THAT overtuned offensively 👀
@@CloutmasterPhluphyyThere is a reason that recently, especially from gen 8 and after (but arguably before), ghosts became very opressive offensively. Sure, it hits only two types offensively, but the problem is how hard is to find a resist to it. Dark's only main use today is its matchup against ghost, and became good despite that, which argues to how good it is
I personally feel like Poison would make sense to be SE on Psychic, making them beat each other. Death by toxins is a very common fear that we have, keeping with the “Psychic loses to common fears” trope, and there are *so* many different poisonous substances that can seriously mess with your mind, from neurotoxins to psychedelics to hallucinogens. Water also makes sense and is probably the smarter pick, but I feel like my idea could work as well for a Poison buff.
issue is... weel almost anything can be looked at as a fear against psychic: bug (especially arachnids that are bug types), ice (wanna die of frost?), fire (being burned alive is terrifying), water (drowning is terrifying) grass (for the same reasons you put poison there), ghost is self-explanatory, dark (fear of the dark of course and dark overall being all about messing with someone's mind), dragon (wanna face a monster that's not even supposed to exist?)... if you go this route more than half the typings in the games should have favorable interactions with psychic
Poison should just get a move thats super effective on psychic then honestly
Ayyyyyy I've been wondering when the big fancy type chart would come out! I'll post my thoughts below after watching:
It's honestly kinda surprising that the type chart for Pokemon has hardly seen any major chances since its debut,- though I guess we have the breakneck release schedule of modern Pokemon games hasn't given the developers much of chance to consider changing type relations.
Bug types: I love your cautious approach to buffing the bug type. Rather than implementing the highly requested "Fairy is weak to Bug and Bug is strong against Fairy change." you just let bug resist fairy and poison. And you even gave the bug type the utility to be immune to confusion. Spreading out smaller buffs like this helps maintain a familiarity to the original type.
Ice types: I'm very glad you removed the ground resist that you proposed in your original video- especially in tandem with your new changes to the grass type. I don't much else to say because these changes make a lot of sense on paper.
Rock types: For the longest time I've always wondered why rock never resisted itself... it just kinda made sense? And the removal of stealth rocks on switch-in is amazing in a competitive sense- having a rock-type on your team is now always a valid consideration. Removing the very common ground weakness is the icing on the top.
Grass types: Honestly, you had your work cut out for you when ice types got similar resistances to grass types. So when you made the out-of-pocket fairy and ghost resistances I was all for it! You learned into the grass type's "many weaknesses but, many resistances" design- I am the most excited to try out these changes if they were implemented in a battle sim or game. (Also removing the flying type's resistance to grass is also great.)
Poison Type: No other type deserved to gain the super-effective advantage over water more than poison. Hitting such a common type for super-effective gives the poison type an offensive identity- clearing grass and fairy weren't enough.
My only concern from these changes as seen on paper is that the ghost type going from a solid type to potentially below average- mainly in a competitive sense. I can forsee Defensive Grass pivots being utilized a lot more and the added poison neutrality may hurt just a little too much for them. that being said- none of these changes have been tested yet, so who knows.
This is a wonderful video and I hope maybe someday I can try implementing these changes in a fan-game project or something because they certainly will liven up Pokemon as a whole! :>
Finally. You've made rock resist rock. Thank you.
FINALLY someone actually realizes the different design philosophy of gen one! Especially on the way it followed other JRPGs of it's time!
While I do agree that ghost having two immunities is pretty strong, removing both its resistances seems a bit much. While the bug one is understandable because of how many types resist it, I really don't think poison is being screwed quite as hard that it can't have ghost resist it.
And while thematics weren't your priority, I think making poison hit one type of magic creature, fairy types, for super effective damage, while another type magic creature resists it seems like an appropriate trade-off. Besides the idea of them resisting toxins because they aren't totally corporeal and such.
Before I watch the video, imma leave my definitely sound ideas and then watch and return to my comment.
-make fairy weak to fire
-make electric weak to rock (so zaptos can join moltres and articuno in the 4x weak to rock gang)
-make ghost resist fairy
-make steel weak to electric
-make water resist ground and rock (because obviously water needs a buff)
-make rock weak to psychic (because why not)
It’s so hard balancing types also due to the theme of their moves. It’s why I think water and water type moves are so incredibly good.
I haven't considered most of these. I only wanted just a few things.
Bug: Make it resist Fairy so it's mutual resistance. Type quirk is they speed up in Sun (like a built-in Chlorophyll). So basically if you use Sun on them to hit them harder, you run the risk of them swarming you.
Grass: Make it mutual resistance with Fairy.
Ice: Make it resist Water (so now it's mutual resistance), Ground and Dragon. Type quirk is it is immune to Powder moves and Leech Seed and Fire becomes neutral in Snow.
Rock: Just give it a built-in Shell Armor.
8:50 three average types bug resist is wrong. Ground is within the top 4 for offensive types. In false swipe gaming, they often praise grass types for resisting ground like shaymin. So bug is a pretty good defense type.
I hope you'll do a follow-up to this one; looking how various dual-types will now be affected, akin to the Ice buff videos.
It'll obviously be a ton more work, having altered more types than just Ice. But still!
And great work, these videos are a blast to watch!
Or cassette beasts where all the "super effective" and "not very effective" hits will cause a status effect that can be either beneficial or detrimental depending on the type of damage, with a full explanation as to why it happens.
I made my own type chart that has many changes, keeping in mind various factors like movepools, abilities, number of mons, and average stats.
Tried it in my version of inclement emerald and it's been awesome. I'm glad I didn't buff poison too much because I made them supereffective against water and neutral against steel and in hoenn that's really good lol so I had to balance it out in other ways. I made at least one change to every type so all mons feel fresh.
Cant wait to see how elements afect combat in monster hunter *(proceeds to use blast against everything)*
Personally I think Steel should be super effective against Dragon, to give Dragon another weakness while giving Steel a bit more of an offensive presence - flavour it as dragonslayers or something - but in exchange make it weak to Electric, for the same reason Electric beats Water. I'd also consider making Fairy resist Ghost, under the idea of Purity cleansing the Spirit, and making Psychic resist Fairy, with a sort of "not believing in myth" as an explanation. I feel like these changes would help reign a couple standout types in without being too oppressive to any of them, as well as further connecting the type chart so that you don't just have an exclusive club of types that don't really interact with the rest of the chart.
I do think steel needs nerfing, it doesn't make sense how Electric is not effective against something it conducts well. Also I would like a nerf to fairy as well.
I’d give Grass a defense boost in the Sun 25%
when i was a kid i thought water should be supereffective against steel bc water rusts metal
I also like for psychic resist fairy just because I feel like it
Two buffs I like for underpowered types that weren't mentioned in the video:
1. STAB psychic moves shouldn't be able to miss, outside of OHKO moves. Obviously, this just makes sense from a thematic standpoint, but it also brings psychic closer to the offensive powerhouse it once was.
2. Normal types should get a 2x STAB multiplier instead of a 1.5x one, as it's the only type that doesn't deal super-effective damage. Pray for anyone about to get hit by Bloodmoon Ursaluna, though.
ice and bug are my two favorite types 😭😭
i was so happy that they fixed hail in gen 9
The confusion immunity will be useful for swagger in VGC. You could use klefki to swagger your scizor, and then scizor attacks with bp
thrash on mega pinsir would basically become a delete button in most situations if bug was immune to confusion
You know it'd be nice to have a way to test different type charts like how Pokemon show down allows you to test competitive teams.
On your video on the Ice type I had strongly opposed the changes except for resisting Electric. I had some thought about it and started to agree with the Water resistance on a situational basis (i.e., during Hail/Snow). I still like the idea of Ice being a "hard" type like Rock and Steel which are also weak to Fighting, and that it should resist Normal as the other "hard" types. That would also make Ice a suitable type for early gym gameplay, given how common Normal type attacks are early game.
Some of the changes I've been planning for a fangame I working on:
- Ice resists Ice, Electric (inspired by your video), Normal... and Water (during Hail/Snow, also inspired by your video)
- Bug resisting Fairy is something I had thought about too, reassuring to see other people also think this change would make sense. Bug SE against Ground is something I'm considering but I'd rather work on Bug resistances because many other more viable types can use bug moves. I'm conflicted on Bug being immune to confusion but I'd be open to Bug getting some unorthodox interaction like that, just need to get my head around the immune to confusion thing (or think of an alternative)
- Grass: had trouble thinking on something here because all of their type interactions just make so much sense to me. The alternative that I was considering for my fangame to make then more useable was to make leech seed an entry hazard that saps HP on switch-in, and make Grass types absorb it like Poison types absorb toxic spikes. I'm conflicted with Grass resisting Ghost that you proposed, but think Grass resisting Fairy makes sense. I'm just afraid of ending up making Fairy the Psychic 2.0 which was OP then became overnerfed with time. As you mentioned, Grass is a very difficult one to touch that's why I went for the adjusting leech seed route.
- Psychic resists and is SE on Fairy. For reasons other people mentioned.
- Fairy is resisted by Bug now but is NOT resisted by Fire anymore (like, why??)
- Ghost: I didn't touch it's type interaction, what I thought was making Curse an entry hazard when used by Ghosts. Normal would be immune and Fairy could clear the curse away from the user side.. but I'm still working on this idea.
Now on the other types you changed that I wasn't planning to touch on the fangame but now I might:
- Agreed on Poison SE on Water. I actually had thought about it at some point.
- Agreed on Rock breaking stealth rock (maybe absorbing it and healing HP in the process, as usually their bodies are made of rock?). Kinda agree on it resisting Rock but I'd keep the Ground weakness
- I'm worried about Ghost losing those resistances, but that'd probably need to be tested on some Showdown alternative format maybe.
That seems fun, too. Leech Seed as a hazard is interesting and sounds so wild. You already can Spin seeds away, so as a hazard you can't switch out of, my goodness what a buff. Curse as a hazard sounds strong too. Since Ghost is good offensively right now.
Normal doesn't need to be nerfed offensively.
It's already resisted by 2 types and infective against 1 type. Another resistance would make it have worse neutral coverage than several other types which can hit things for SE with their STAB.
It makes no sense to buff Psychic offensively with the pretext it's "too weak" while nerfing Normal, because both have the exact same neutral coverage... except that Psychic can hit 2 types for SE and Normal can't.
@@gsp6517 I wouldn't consider it that much of a nerf as many normal types can actually learn coverage moves from several different types. That's where their SE comes from, as their STAB never gets SE.
@@giovani_luiz The main form of coverage most Normal types get is the elemental punches and fangs, which have 75 BP at best. It's not the huge asset you think it is.
Also, using coverage as an excuse to nerf Normal STAB to the ground is a dubious argument at best, as is it something which could be also applied to the types you chose to buff offensively (aka Psychic).
Also, Normal having worse neutral coverage than types which can actually hit things for SE damage is still stupid from a game design sense.
I always said (and thought back in the day) that Poison should be super effective against Fighting. I still remember my frustration when I finally managed to hit a Machop with a poison attack... and it wasn't super effective.
Poison literally... poisons your body, and Fighting types are the ones who most use their bodies to, well, fight!
And it's a classic trope, the bad guys poisoning the heroes in order to get an advantage in the fight.
Bug does have a give/take it's strong against two important types to be strong against. Those being psychic and dark. Dark being a common decent defensive type and psychic being a type that's always had a lot of relevance
So on the point of poison. I think originally it was supposed to both resist and hit psychic types super effectively. Poison was also likely originally intended to cut special attack just like burn cuts physical attack, but because of the gen 1 unified stat, it was probably too much to balance before they shipped the product. It is my opinion that the intention for Gengar and Beedrill was to be good against psychic types, but when coding they made poison weak to psychic instead of resisting it.
Think of it as a mage getting assassinated, as ninja/rogues are often seen as anti-mages. This would fix a ton of gen 1 imbalance on its own.
18:41: "A seesaw over lava" -Iggy Koopa and Larry Koopa now want to know your location. ;)
Since you suggested to look at other games and their elemental systems, I'll bring up the two I'm most familiar with. Despite my best efforts, it's a long comment, so brace yourselves, pals.
1) Puppet Dance Performance. This game is very strongly inspired by Pokémon, so direct comparison works very well. It has its own types and interactions, in my opinion much better than Pokémon's. Every type has, at most, four of a given non-neutral interaction, and equal or close enough amounts of positives and negatives. (Then there's Dream-type, which is neutral to and from everything).
Special cases with gimmicks, field effects and statuses exist (e.g. Nether-type can't be trapped, Dream-type can't be "stopped" -basically sleep-) but don't upset balance much.
Even so, the developer didn't nail it first try; some types still felt in need of a little push or slight nerf, and Wind-type was overpowered, so they added Warped-type to improve things in the Shard of Dreams expansion.
2) Cassette Beasts. This game has its own take on types altogether; instead of focusing on them as damage multipliers, they cause temporary buffs and debuffs, or in a few cases, a temporary type change (e.g. If you're ice and get hit by fire, you become water for three turns).
See, a common criticism Pokémon gets is type effectiveness being _way too important_ compared to other aspects of the combat system (the most common suggestion being to reduce the damage multipliers). While this criticism has been applied to both PvP and story, the point is best illustrated on the story side of things by people who say "these games are too easy because I just have to click super-effective attacks and watch as almost everything gets one-shot from full health".
Cassette Beasts, by instead using a system that integrates types into other mechanics (stat modifiers, status effects, etc), offers an alternative that keeps types relevant without making them overcentralize the gameplay. ❤
I love those ideas. Yes, Pokémon is so heavily based on type effectiveness and switching, and some people still don't get that. It makes discussion really difficult sometimes, especially since this Pokémon might be the only turn based game they've ever played or are capable of beating.
Shin Megami Tensei's type effectiveness (at least the ones with the press turn system) is often just to get extra turns.
I had trouble with SMT:IV because Pokémon previously was the only JRPG I played. Made me realize how easy Pokémon is with a lot of game design decisions. Healing is always free (initially it was probably to compensate for only trainers giving money). Buffing and debuffing isn't necessary, and you can only apply one main status at a time. The INSTANT a demon stops pulling its weight, you need to replace it, none of that "Strong Pokémon, weak pokémon, blah, blah friendship" philosophy. If you miss, you and your teammates LOSE TURNS. Enemies can absorb attacks, be immune, or bounce back attack types and if they do any of the above, you also lose turns.
And wild demons are always a threat, unlike wild Pokémon encounters.
Don't even get me started on the "Smirk" mechanic which does a million things. I love SMT anyway.
Pokémon will always be fun. Love catching, shiny hunting, Pokémon contests, competitive, spinoffs. Love it all. But Pokémon does need to stay very simple, because it has its niche as the most popular monster collector and most inclusive JRPG. And to stay inclusive, despite being text based, it needs to be playable and enjoyable even to people with 0 reading comprehension and low critical thinking skills, which is a fair amount of pokémon fans. Voice acting might help the series, but Pokémon fans may also have listening comprehension or memory issues too, so it doesn't completely fix the issue.
It holds its niche well. But I should definitely give Casette Beasts a try.
I've always thought Ice should get immunity to ice, and then maybe give water weakness to ice; the ice/waters would remain immune and ice would be a strong offensive type with the drawback that ice types can switch in on you easily.
Rock shouldn't be weak to ground.
bug should be inmune to "mental states" like taunt, infatuation or encore and maybe intimidate, same reason for be SE to dark, which Is... bug hasn't emotions or facial expresión? I'm not sure, but quive dance and sticky web go brrr
6:12 pmd referenced 😍
I'd personally make ice resist dark and fairy. Instant buff.
It'd be cool if you highlighted some matchups that would be affected by this new type chart, especially involving dual types and previously very bad matchups.
* Bug: I agree with all your changes in Bug.
* Ice: I agree with Ice resisting Electric for lore (ice is a poor conductor in any form, just like snow) and balance issues. After all, it prevents this type from being a such nuisance for Water types, encouraging the users exploring the other Water weakness (Grass) as an alternative, but I would keep the rest like the same.
* Rock: Not bad. I can buy it, specially the part of breaking Stealth Rock, one of the worst introductions for the battle system.
* Grass: I'd still make Flying resisting Grass. I totally agree Grass should resist or even be immune against Fairy types, but I think Grass should resist Dark instead of Ghost, since plants can repel "evil spirits or negative energy", which seems to be more associated with Dark types. Besides, we've already removed a Ghost resistance when we fixed Bug trade-offs.
* Poison: I agree that Poison could have been SE against Water. I'd still keep Ghost resisting Poison types, since Poison hitting harder two top/high tier types already enhances greatly its significance.
Honestly surprised that ice already didn't resist water
It is always fun trying to improve the type chart and your ideas are pretty decent. But I do believe that types don't need to be equal from a type chart perspective and that Pokemon with bad types should be given tools to make up for that.
The only thing I disagree with is giving Bug an intrinsic immunity to Confusion. I think that this is far more logical for Psychic types. In fact, type intrinsic protections are also a nice topic to fantasize about.
Honestly, I like most of these changes,
And while I'm a bit surprised you reverted the ground resistance,
I do think the type might be good enough without it.
The goofy thing about the bug type is that most of the interactions assume that bugs are the smallest animal. Like rock beats bug because you can smash a spider with a rock. Fire beats bug because you can burn bees nests. flying beats bug because birds eat bugs. Meanwhile a caterpie is as tall as a pidgey or a geodude. I think if there were bugs that were as tall as birds, then the adults would be protecting the eggs just like mammals or birds.
I think simply making rock resist rock is enough. It's a great type defensively with this and don't think it needs the ground neutrality.
honestly dont have an issue with the audio, your voice sounds really clear, just on the ASMR side. Some may have an issue, but I wouldnt stress too much about it man. Good video!
Steel’s resistance to psychic could become a weakness whilst keeping steel neutral against psychic as it fits the theme of manipulating or warping hard objects with telekinetic powers like Alakazam, whilst also reducing steel’s overwhelming defensive presence and providing the relatively weak offensive type of psychic with significant coverage of a powerful type.
Steel honestly needs a nerf, it's supposed to be a defensive wall yet is still better than a lot of types offensively? I would either remove the ice or rock super effectiveness and add some resistances, maybe bug or poison since bugs can't be squished easily by metal objects and poison can be corrosive towards steel
I always thought thematically Poison should be super effective against Normal and/or Fighting.
As a whole I love this video.
I'm trying to make my own pokédex of "fakemon", and one thing I tried was also creating 2 more types to round the chart from 18 to 20, but In the end I gave up on the idea because as a guy who had minimal knowledge into balancing the pokemon type chart, i thought it would be safer to try and adjust the canon types and even I knew that was easier said than done, I only fully grasped that doing it.
Like beyond the types covered here, I was trying to find a way to offensively differentiate the dark and ghost types because both types having the exact same super effectivness bothers me a lot. I decided on giving a third super effective type to each, fairy for ghost and normal for dark (trading the fighting being super effective on them for Gighting resisting normal) and even the, this feels reckless, you can only realize the balance of things when you only go down to it XS...
You can split the flying into flying/bird and wind types and split psychic into psychic and cosmic. Giving ghost 2x I'd the way to go. Electric gains a weakness and since supernatural stuff messes with electronics it's thematic, too.
Finally got around to watching this video and I like the changes you made my favorite is grass resisting ghost
My question is...
...where are the Psychic type buffs?
It has virtually no advantages on top pf debilitating weaknesses to some of the most common moves in the game and has HORRENDOUS dual type synergy
Water finally being a balanced type thanks to being worse vs Poison/Ice is what I like best here. Excellent changes and reasoning overall, wish they'd implement these changes in the games.
All I wanted were these changes:
Bug and Grass resist Fairy.
Ice resist Water and Ground but receive super-effective damage from Scald.
Frostbite replaces Freeze and Frostbite chance doubles when the user is Ice type.
Snow increases the chance of Ice type Pokemon to cause Frostbite with their moves.
Ghost and Fairy super-effective against each other.
Poison and Dark super-effective against each other.
Psychic unaffected by Taunt, Encore, Torment, Heal Block and Disable (including Cursed Body). Basically a built in Mental Herb except for Infatuate.
Rock immune to Stealth Rock damage and knocks them on entry.
Rock Polish removes hazards on your side of the field when used. (If they're not going to make a Rock-type Rapid Spin)
Just make grass power up based on weather, in the sun grass type moves are powered up and speed doubles, in the rain defenses doubles and gains a resistance to fire and poison, in sand water type moves are absorbed and flying types are resisted also life drain moves are powered up and absorb more health, in hail/snow speed is cut but defenses are doubled, if Tailwind is up, defense and attack go up also powder and spore moves become more accurate