I'm gonna pull an idea that a friend of mine went with when we played a Pokemon TTRPG a few years back. In this world, the legendaries were actual gods (all the legendaries were like this, though this included major and minor gods) with their own special portfolios of what powers they wielded. However, if a player wanted to actually go capture one of these literal gods, what they could actually catch was an "avatar" of them instead. This way, the god/legendary in question could still go around maintaining their portfolio with godlike power and influence over the world, and the player could have a powerful pokemon in their pocket that, while significantly powerful, also fit within the mechanics of the game.
A fantastic idea! If this was the lore established in the world-building for a reboot (from the start) then writers could do some pretty cool stuff. If players do not expect that to be the case then they could encounter some pretty mysterious scenarios. The player catches one only for their rival to also have one... and that inside of battle, the avatars won't fight each other. Lots of clues like that.
A strange curiosity surrounding the regis is the presence of the ancient society that sealed them. With the mystery first beginning with the Ruins of Alph in Jhoto and (to my knowledge) ends with the Undela Ruins in Unova. It is probably the closest thing to giving them a persistent presence across regions. Even then, their story isn’t really about the Regis. It’s about how they slowly came to accept pokemon and negotiate a path to coexistence instead of treating them like irreconcilable threats. The next closest thing is probably the Fallers, but we still don’t know what that’s leading up to. As for me, I think the aspect that devalues a legendary the most is redundancy. It’s hard to understand why we have Zarude, Volcanion, Marshadow, and Zeroaura all being similar characters in their respective movies. Distrustful of humans, forced to collaborate bu external threat, which develops into begrudging respect by the end of the story. Having similar powers/significance is also pretty bad >.> One thing about god-like entities in general is that I like it when they have rules to play by. The red chains, although they don’t even work as intended, are an example from the pokemon series. One I like better is how Dialga and Palkia are handled in Explorers, with their signature moves being taken pretty literally. Roar of Time is how Dialga controls time. That means his powers to affect time can only travel as fast as the speed of sound. A pretty important limitation. Meanwhile, Palkia’s Spacial Rend means he can only affect what he can touch. Likewise, rather than a power cap, I think a writer can always create the special circumstances that allow them to unleash greater powers that would not be practical to accomplish in a day to day setting. A lot of legendaries feature quests to secure their artifacts to summon/meet/transform/ or learn a signature move already anyways. Just a little variety like the Sinjoh ruins would be nicer.
Really great points here! Yes the repetition in movies absolutely can impact how a player feels about them in the games. The reverse working as well, well written movies could have players love particular Legendaries more (I definitely like Lugia a lot more after the second film!) I really think you've hit a good point here on "limitations". Even if they are extremely powerful and could indeed control time, having these unique rules to play by allows for some incredible storytelling when a writer gets creative in their uses.
I like the two ways Legends Arceus justifies catching certain legendary Pokemon, and I feel like both are decently good ways to justify the idea in general. For one, when you catch Enamorus, it's explicitly mentioned that one day, Enamorus WILL outlive you, and will be free again, which got me thinking. I like the idea of some legendary Pokemon simply letting you catch them because you've earned their respect and they want to see what you're up to, as mentioned in the video. After all, they're IMMORTAL. Who cares about losing a single human's lifespan stuck in a ball when you've got PLENTY more time to spend afterwards? And if the human is interesting enough, that time might be worth spending. The second factor is how Arceus, when you obtain it at the end after completing the Pokedex, explicitly says it's gifting you "a piece of itself". Touching on the same concept a lot of other people have brought up of catching legendary Pokemon's "avatars" instead of catching the actual Pokemon, I think this would be a good way to handle the larger-than-life deity Pokemon that represent huge, cosmic forces. Why can Groudon reshape the land, but only before you catch it? Because before you caught it, it was just an extension of some greater divine being, a single piece of power connected to a greater whole. Once you catch it, it'll still certainly be POWERFUL, but it's still only a piece, severed from the divine entity that bears the rest of its immense potential. Though, this DOES raise the question of what would happen if enough different people managed to obtain "pieces" of that legendary being and bring them together. Maybe they'd be able to tap into more of the greater power that being represents? That'd be an interesting idea.
One more thing I wanted to add to this that came to me after the fact: tying into your own Pokeball lore, maybe it's specifically the process of being converted into D.A.T.A. that severs the connection between a "piece" of a deistic legendary and its greater whole. When the D.A.T.A. encodes a legendary, it only encodes that legendary's physical, biological form, and therefore only contains the amount of power in that relatively small piece of the legendary. That'd also explain why the evil teams never think to, y'know, catch the legendary, and instead go about doing all sorts of funky things to channel/control its power WITHOUT catching it, like using the Red Chain and Red/Blue Orbs.
That was introduced first in Crown Thundra After helping Calyrex regain his power by making people remember them and rebonding with the steed, it gives you a final test to see if you're worthing. If you manage to capture Calyrex, it will tell you that it will stay with you to acompany tru your travels and experience this new world and eventually there will come a time when they will be free again. It does it not because you "overpowered them" or are "forcing them to stay by using the ball", but because they want to stay with you.
@lythd ... Yeah, uh, I don't know if you read, uh, any of my comment other than the word D.A.T.A., but... I am not, in fact, just talking about the word "data". As I clearly stated, I'm referring to the lore established in Radioactive's other video regarding how Pokeballs work in his storyline, which involves converting Pokemon into something called D.A.T.A., or a Dematerialized Atomic Tissue Archive. I highly recommend you watch that video, "World-building the way Pokeballs work". Even without knowing that, you can infer based on the context that I didn't just mean the word "data", given that it requires substantially more effort to type out D.A.T.A. - If that's what I meant, I would have said that. Next time you don't understand what someone is talking about, I recommend you either try to analyze context clues to see if you can make sense of it yourself, or ask for elaboration without attaching it to an attempted correction that sounds smart to you, but is ultimately unrelated.
@@crimsonDestroyer u said it twice and in both cases data would make sense. sorry i havent seen some random video?? and i literally just asked. ur the one with a pretentious reply :)
ok love the video but just thought id point this out arceas in legends arceas told us the arceas we use in battle is only a fraction of its power so we have one finger of the being that made everything
@@RadioactiveMagicGames well at least it’s not having a interesting concept then someone tell you to alter it because they figure out why people like that character. Yes it’s about Temtem and thinking the professor was the evil team leader from brick bronze is what made him interesting
ooooo that would be so cool. even just changing some things in swsh would make that story more enjoyable, could be a good commentary on real world issues as well! have the eternatus actually secretly be the chairman rose and hes planning on WASTING and DESTROYING all of the resources and land instead of doing some weird thing to get more energy??? could have oleana not know of his true identity and has a crisis and questions her life when she finds out. how much has he lied to her? blaming herself for not seeing his true colors? even a small shine of a could be redemption arc at the end, the heros need some help and she joins them/gives them the information freely. the galar region could have a history of being pretty good at balancing what resources they take from nature and what they return back into it but ever since chairman rose hes been changing things and influences the society in galar to be more wasteful and greedy! i wish gamefreak would make the plots interesting 😭
The evil team could be a hive mind of innocents being controlled by a central malevolent force and the leader could be either a decoy or a person supplying it with power with delusions of being in control of it. Holy crap that idea came out of nowhere but I love it!
I've seen it explained that Pokeballs restrict the power of legendary pokemon. This is why Cyrus captures the gen 4 legendary with the Red chain rather than a pokeball as he needs it's full power. It's also hinted that the Arceus you catch isn't Arceus itself.
Other people have suggested, but I really like the idea of (some) Legendary Pokemon that the player can use being avatars of the true Legend/God Pokemon. It feels like a compromise between the Level Cap and Uncatchable ideas that takes the best aspects of both. The Avatars are merely fragments of the Legendary’s true power so you can keep their power level in line with the other Pokemon. Meanwhile you can still have the true Legendary act as an NPC in world perhaps offering a difficult battle or other challenge at a higher power level than normal Pokemon. This would probably only be necessary for a specific group of Legendaries (mainly the box set). The nomadic set could still be normal Pokemon within the power cap, and have unique methods of encounters.
I agree with everything, but I just love the "TEAM *blank*" too much to let it go. I really dislike the idea of removing that, but I do think the villains could have more purpose.
I agree with every single one of your videos thank you so much for publishing high quality content and I wish the Pokemon company would listen to everything that you say! You are awesome!
I think what kills Legendaries for people is just how easy it is to get them, and how common they are (not in that there's a ton of legendaries, but that there's a ton of each legendary because of things like GO and re-releasing each one for every subsequent game). I think the mystery and journey to meet a legendary hypes them up properly (see the Regis, the intro encounter with Zacian/Zamazenta, or the Genie trio roaming), then the act of catching them requires a good bit of effort (releasing the ruined legends from SV, battling Eternatus or Ogerpon in a boss fight, overall just not being able to catch them outright unless a lot of effort was required to "prove yourself"). Imagine if we heard whispers of a legend, searched or randomly happened to see it, only for it to run. You track it down and repeatedly encounter it, it fleeing every time. You finally track down its final resting place, puzzle your way to it, then battle it in a boss fight. After all the effort you went through, it lets you catch it of its own accord (like every raid boss being a free catch).
Aside from the idea that a lot of people mentioned here about catching the avatars of legendary Pokémon, I also like the idea that was presented with Pokémon Scarlet/Violet, where the box legendary was hurt and lost its powers, so it becomes your partner but doesn't have access to the absurd levels of power other legendaries do. For instance, there are plenty of legendary Pokémon who are known to have a temper, so having one of them clash with another and lose, getting wounded and powered-down, wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Then, your task along the game is to help it recover to its full potential, so you actually earn your possession of a god-like being and it makes sense for the legendary to want to stick around. A way that I could see something similar happening is through an evolving legendary, like in Pokémon Sun/Moon. Both Nebby and the second Cosmog you get in those games are initally met in a tiny, child-like state where they have no access to the time-space warping capabilities of their final forms and, as the story progresses, you watch them grow, possibly helping them along the way and, in the end, they are already used to being around you, so they stick around
A variant of power-cap is to focus the Legendaries power to things not directly overpowering in combat. Large in scale, scope and wonder, not direct focused power. Example: Groudon can slowly control the mantle of the earth on a large scale. Moving many square kilometers of earth but only at a few kilometers per hour. So Groudon can create raise a island given a few hours and over millennia create a continent. But the power is too slow to use directly in combat. Or a game mechanical representation in the form of a signature move. Genesis of Earth Base power 60. Infinite PP. Increase base power by 20 for each consecutive use. Strikes all Pokemon in battle excluding the user. This would not be totally unbalanced in game and would represent the power to buildup towards world changing power.
I really like the idea of not being able to catch legendaries in the games but I think there are some exceptions. Let's take Mewtwo for example. After all the things it has been through, I think it's possible for it to be friends with a "pure of heart" kid that showed only love and compassion. The only problem is that every exception needs a story, even a short one, to make such events plausible. But for the most part, it doesn't make any sense for a person, especially an 11 years old, to catch a god-like being only for him/her to display it inside a pc box and occasionally use it in competitive battling and such... Palkia, Dialga, Arceus, Giratina etc. have better things to do than fullfil futile desires of some random kid. Avatars are a great idea but they'd break the immersion as if we had the legendary itself, thus to work properly, Game Freak have to put some real efforts in the writing of the plot and in the stories behind these omnipotent pokémon. Anyway, great great video! 😁
Thank you! I agree, if there wasn't a limit to Pokemon's power there could still be a limit to what the player could catch, with some legendaries actually falling below the "uncatchable" line. Mewtwo is a legendary you can catch, Giratina is NPC only.
I think Game Freak has started realizing the power creep and Gen 8 and 9 have more toned down box legendaries compared to the literal PokéGods that came before it. Legendary heroes who fought off an even more powerful legendary is fine, even if Eternatus was a bit apocalyptic. In Gen 9 (spoilers) the box legendaries aren't gods or anything at all, just the ancient precursor or future successor to Cyclizar, a common Pokemon you can catch in Gen 9. Like they're super powerful, but they're just apex Pokemon in their ecosystems. They don't have the power to make universes or terraform planets, just cart boarding school students around the region. 😅
@@onehappyboy3029 I was referring to being narratively toned down, not mechanically toned down, which as you point out Gen 8 absolutely was not. My point is that they're legendary Pokemon who just saved a region once (well twice by the end of the game). They aren't Arceus creating the whole universe or Kyogre forming the seas.
@@survivordave Yeah. gen 8 did tone down the legends. While it is implied calyrex is responsible for crop growth to an extent at least. The rest are not really gods per say like kyogre
i just found your channel and have so many videos waiting to be seen! i love the level of proffesionalism you put into these analyses, the reasoning behind them, the explanations you provide. hope your channel keeps growing!
I feel like Gamefreak themselves realized their mistake. Nowadays the legendaries are either lower in terms of their lore power (Zacian/Zamazenta, the paradox legends,etc.) or have special powers that they loose when you catch them (Giratina in PLA has an omnibuff and 2 health bars, Eternatus doesn't have its Eternamax form,etc.) and Arceus was outright said to be just an avatar and a piece of a greater whole. PLA also expanded on the whole catching-thing, implying that Pokemon could leave their trainers and that they can't be catched if they don't want to, so if the 5 year old catches them with a fast ball, then it works because the legendary is ok with that, not because it looses to the power of a fast ball. I also think what works for the legendaries is that they can have powers that are powerful....but not battle related. Groudon and Kyogre can cause massive rainstorms/droughts, but just because these abilities have a huge range, doesn't mean they also have a comparable power in battle.
I keep coming back to this gem of a video. Nomadic legendaries is not a distinction I thought of before watching this, and damn you’re right - they truly feel legendary. You present astute observations, good breakdowns and bold suggestions - the kind of deeper analysis of pokemon content that I’ve been looking for a long time. It’s been a big source of inspiration for my own fakemon design. Thanks for the quality thoughts you put out!
makes me think in D&D, the notorious Dragon Goddess Tiamat is infamous for being a villain for majority of the campaign books and when the players finally reach to the point of a campaign when they can actually can face her in combat. They don't but instead they face a "aspect" of her. Which similar in how you can receive Arceus in Legends.
As a small vocab thing. I've heard a good word to use for "power creep" when not refering to mechanical power, but instead to the stakes or the "scale" of the setting/threat "scale creep", which personally I find more fitting. "Power creep" still comminicates the idea fine though
I really do like the idea of legendaries working like megas. Ie you only have ONE per team. And once you let it out, it becomes your problem too, since you have to fill some prerequisite to call them back. And when it loses to something other than another of its ilk, it's not fainting, it's becoming enraged and leaving for the rest of the battle
I like the idea of maybe doing both. Have the power cap idea for some legendries and allow some legendries to go beyond level 100 and TRULLY be the gods they represent (the ones above 100 being uncatchable)
I remember a DM of Call of Cthulu on said: "the elder gods must never have stats". They're supposed to be beings beyond comprehension, and stats quiet literally are measurable parameters for they can do and represent. Doesn't matter if they have stats in the billions when the players only reach 20s, they shouldn't have stats. Most legendaries are definitely, not eldritch nightmares from beyond reality, and most who are, are just Pokémon from somewhere different (UBs and Paradoxes). As for the few that are gods (weather, creation, xyz), I think Eternatus showed a way to convey their power, without doing something silly like lvl 1 million mons: Exclusive story forms. They grow big, are super strong, and the player has to beat them using the special game mechanic and the power of friendship. Then, for regular gameplay, we just say they're not full power and that's it.
Making "realistic" legendaries 1. As you discussed, have their powers not be global/ dimensional so; shaped a region, has space/time powers in its den, created the PKMN of the region. Part of the evils team deviousness would be pushing them beyond their limits. If creatures this powerful and worshipped were real, their worship would surely spread to other regions, people and PKMN often travel between regions, but this is not really seen. 2. Avatars; a single part of their omnipotent presence, this makes extra sense for Arceus as it has 18 forms (types). You could also better justify very similar trios, eg Aspects of "The Sword of Justice", or a Genie who can multiply and shape shift. 3. Uncatchable, but can be copied/ recreated. We have Dittos, and we can revive fossils with no living DNA. Why not combine a Moltres feather with a Ditto to make something similar but weaker (easiest way would be give it Dittos HP stat).
You could also have the legendaries choose to bestow an avatar or such of their power in the form of a caught pokemon. I'd still argue it should be more powerful than most other pokemon of the same level.
Editor does a very good job. Buuut I'l still consider referring to you two as one person. :P "It's a collaborative effort", as a certain _part of me_ would say. Funny how the work of many different people transforms in the viewers perspective into a singular entity... Other funny note is how it's another one of those topics where my opinion is opposite of the direction that you chose. I'd lean towards "no ceiling" option with the ability of gaining a "part" of them in the most unbalanced cases after finishing required quests. Edit: So, pretty much like it is now in the game, it seems. Except adding a quest part where it's lacking.
I think that there needs to be a distinction between pokemon that are merely very powerful and unique from pokemon that are litteral gods Koraidon and Miraidon may be powerful beasts, but they dont command fundamental aspects of the world, like time or space. In other words, i feel like there shouldve been a distinction between legendaries and god-like pokemon.
Legends establishes that the Arceus you obtain is just a manifestation of the actual Arceus. It would hardly be a stretch to suggest this applies to any other Pokemon that's divine in nature.
I think you could have a middle ground that would work. Some more sapient pokémon like arceus grant you a fraction of their power, a smaller vessel for a time because of story reasons, but you still have "an arceus", similarly to how eternamax eternatus is the real eternatus, but you can only catch him after he's been permanently weakened. Alternatively, you could make it even harder to catch, and pokémon can't move unless they're level 100, similarly to how your pokémon can't attack zamazenta/zacian at first. Or perhaps their energy is too much for the PC, so it's released if you ever try to put it in there, so it takes a permanent spot on your team, or even the second it's let out its pokéball breaks and you'll need to catch it again - that'd be interesting if nothing else
I feel like everyone here is right on avatars being a good substitute for the catching of legendaries. However, I feel like a cool idea could be the exact opposite of your 'level cap.' Rather than cap legendaries, just don't. Level 100 is rare? Level 500 is near impossible, unless your imortal enough to have the time. Have the battles with legendaries go *beyond* the bounds of levels and be proper end game bosses. Then even if you roll up with a full team of level 100 pokemon, it's still a struggle that requires strategy. It would also allow for legendaries to almost be ranked. Arceus is *the* boss so it is level ???, and is the most difficult boss of any game. Period. Dialga and Palkia are a bit below, so 500. But they are literal gods of time and space, so its fine. Then you have things like the lake trio, other minor gods, or long-lived and important pokemon at maybe 200. Then pokemon that are essentially just rare, but not technically gods or anything could be actually caught, such as a lot of the mythicals (like mew, diance, zarude), except their events are tied to special locations and story lines in the game (So that despite no major battle, they still feel important). Then of course once you beat them, they decide you have proven yourself and give you a 'slice' of their power, or avatar as everyone else has said. Because 'gotta catch 'em all' may not be their slogan anymore, but its what people want to do. Also, being more so bosses would allow legendaries and legendary locations to be so much better. As legends will be hidden behind puzzles, mazes, lesser bosses and so on. This might also allow for the game to be slightly harder, as level 80 isn't that high anymore given that the gods are no longer tied to that level. So while level 100 is really rare, a champion may have level 90-95 because to become a champion, you really *have* to be the best. (Also, of course, I exaggerated levels, level 500 with 100s would be like fighting a 100 with a team of eggs. Though I still like the idea of a party of 100s not being enough in some cases as to really drive home the power dynamic and difference you don't see with level 80 pokemon. (i.e. you just can't beat Arceus, but if you widdle it down by like a quarter of its health, it will be impressed despite your loss.)) -- Rant End --
1:52 I think that's what does Legendary to be a true legendary: 1) Design. Trinity of Teal Mask i hardly call legendary's, because they look like a a little stronger than the others,and Game Freak was understood this,and gave to them not very strong characteristics. 2) Difficult to obtain. In order to get a conditional Beautyfly in the early game, you need to look for it for a very long time from the crowd of other Pokemon. To get some kind of Tapu - Poko, you need to go to the electronic event in DLC. BUT : it's about a Pokémon like Enternatus ,Zacian , Nekrosma. They are a plot creatures, so they can't just be brought into some DLS, because it's meta. Also, Zapdos or Entey are do not have a complex meaning and they are not necessary. So they can be used
I would kind of blend the two ideas, and have box cover legendaries be kind of the ultimate nomadic legendary. They get to be boss fights early in the game but you can't catch them then. Instead, IMO how I would do it is have all the legendaries be postgame content, with the exception of the game's Legendary Trio, who I would have be mostly postgame content, but I would give a lifeline to players struggling to beat the elite 4 by having them unlock before postgame if you've lost to the elite four 5 times (or some other number. 5 just seemed like enough times to not be so much as to be punishing to people struggling, but enough that intentionally losing wouldn't be too prioritized)
[Lore power] and [mechanical power] don't need to be linked (or [battle power] and [world power], for that matter), Ditto isn't an all powerful shapeshifter _outside_ of direct battles, and _even then_ it is _too fragile_ to really compare to most of what it would want to become. So the legendries can have powerful "field effects" that aren't super-helpful in the middle of a battle. The ability to raise small landmasses over the course of five-to-seven business days isn't going to help much in a twenty-minute battle, after all.
I like the idea of being able to catch my tics with master all but not legendaries and instead having to max out friendship and completing there tasks/quest for example Suicune lets say due to team rocket and juts people waters are becoming polluted so the Pokemon in them are dying (and in game lower spawn rates, all start off poisons and minder leveled etc) and your job is to help clean up these waters, and prevent it happening again etc and once the whole regain has very healthy water you can catch suicune or something
I dont really think it makes any sense for pokemon to represent something, but not be able to control it in any way. After all, if... say groudon just represented the land, but couldn't manipulate it, then why would people associate it with the land at all?
I think a mix of options 1 and 2 are best. For example God like Pokemon like Archeus should fall under option 2 while for something like Zapdos or Mewtwo option 1 is best.
I think a pretty nice way gamefreak can make their new games is to make it so that, if you loose at certain important points, you'll see the effects of it (and maybe even a whole seperate path)
What if the legendary pokemon grants you an egg that''ll hatch into a legendary that will be just as powerful as them one day, just not in your lifetime?
My favorite way of treating the legendaries is the ones that are _less_ involved in the game's plot. Literally the only time that the main box art legendaries being involved in the plot improved the plot itself or meant _anything_ was Hoenn, and even then the better legendaries that generation were the ones you had to hunt for and solve in-universe mysteries to find (the Regi quest was the best even if the Reggies themselves were duds, Latios and Latias are both cute and powerful, and Deoxys is cool).
Bro, you explained my issue with the POwer Creep of Legendaries SO WELL. I'm not at all a fan of the step-up with Sinnoh making Legendaries the literal EMBODIMENTS of things like Time, Space, Emotion, etc. Them being powerful influencers of those things is one thing(the Weather Trio), but to make them the sole causes of the world being held together? And to have a young child hold that much power in their PokeBall...? Only for it to be able to be KO'd by lesser Pokemon? And don't get me started with Arceus being the literal GOD of the PokeVerse.....Yea, that stuff is just too much.
Surprise surprise I would go with the uncatchable route because it aligns with all I said about them, what they are, what defines them, and how they thrive in the negative space of the world and the presence they exude. These legends have duties, domains, and roles that are simply more important than human squabbles even those that regularly side with and interact with humans. The legendarys don't care whether or not people know they exist because that doesn't matter in regards to fulfilling their purpose and job, and they absolutely hate being personally messed with or their domains being messed with particularly by people that have no idea what they are doing or simply don't care. Attempting to obstruct their duties, separate them from their domains, or prevent them from doing their job is going to be met with several retribution which is why the anime usually treats catching these legendarys as a big no no. So in a reboot you would be relying on your pokedex's scanning and recording features to obtain as much information as possible from all possible sources while you have the chance because unless you are the luckiest person in the world or is loved by the poke-pantheon you won't be seeing that legendary for another few centuries at best. While you can't catch them, because the legendarys have more important things to do with will leave whenever they want, you can earn their favor and respect and will be able to call upon that favor later in life. Best not to abuse it because that will end horribly for everyone. I believe that there is more value for world building by treating legendarys as what they are and having them be the sole exception in the system where you call forth the legendary more akin to a Final Fantasy summon. In the pokemon world those stories and legends are almost always true right down to the smallest details and I don't want that to change. The legends and rarity are a result of what the legendarys are not the other way around. As a side note I know that some real life people will want legendarys to be evil or be villainized in universe, but one important aspect of the legendarys is that none of them are evil, they are simply what they are. There is no pokemon devil for example no many how many times people try to paint Giratina as one. Legendarys also rarely ever engage in conflict with each other unless the system, as in the tapestry of their domains and rules known as reality as directed and dictated by Arceus, allows it or is built around it. They know how powerful they are and why they exist and the resulting calamity that would result isn't acceptable in their eyes. They are simply too powerful. There is a reason why there are so many superweapons whose entire purpose is to summon, control, or use a legendary as a power source. Usually the villains use these but sometimes the script can be flipped depending on the nature of the structure.
Weird idea but if you’re sentient, maybe instead of capturing, gonna be conformed contract with them were like you can summon them if you meet certain conditions and then after defeating them.
i think what makes arceus arceus is because it was made to be the god the only reason you can catch it in PLA was probably because they seemed you worthy why would you get sent to the past anyways and it doesnt appear anywhere else but i agree its stupid it can get fainted from lvl 1 pokemon tho
I much prefer The Power Cap way. I would like to design the Legendaries as rare Pokemons that have unique abilities and are surrounded by a lot of myths and legends. Legendaries are highly specialized in certain abilities, and they have significant weaknesses that can be taken advantage of. They can do things that no other Pokemon can do or they can do certain things extremely well, but they are not gods or immortal beings. I think Dragonfall by Storylover-Vodhr from fanfiction is a fantastic example. Storylover-Vodhr redesigns Latios and Latias completely. Firstly, Latis are very numerous (In the story there are more than 1000 Latios and Latias lived in Altomare 10 years after the event of Heroes ) but still very rare compared to things like Pikachus. Each Lati is specialized in certain abilities and weak in other areas. They can either be very stealthy, be a good shapechanger, be a good flyer, or be a swimmer. However, humans in the past think every Lati are good at all the abilities mentioned, thus myths and legends that exaggerated their abilities were told. Lati lives in large communities and the community is run under the principle of social specialization.
I like the idea of making most of the truely god-like ones uncatchable. And if people really wants to use them maybe give them that mythical treatment where it's a special gift and a story or something
Ohhh this video is gonna be helpful, for my box art legendaries, yes, but especially for my third legendary, which is good because I came here with the intention of figuring it out! My legendary trio is based on the ideas of friendship- yeah cliche but, I wanted to toy around with that idea. They didn’t make friendship, but they helped connect a lot of people and pokemon together through their respective means; care (think how you had to evolve Eevee into Sylveon through Pokemon Amie in XY), dedication (think how you had to evolve Crobat by training with it and staying by it’s side in battle), but also sacrifice. The two box art legendaries represent Care and Dedication, but the villain actually never goes for those two legendaries. Instead, she goes for a third legendary, one that is supposed to represent sort of a toxic friendship. I’m thinking in the original 2 ‘games,’ you’ll never be able to catch this “toxic friendship” pokemon because it’s already owned by the villain. Even after you beat the villain, she keeps the pokemon, in the attempt to maybe redeem it. I’m kinda thinking it’d actually be cool for the ‘final fight’ to mix what you said about a different challenge from the villain, and a different challenge from the legendary. Sort of? So in Pokemon C/D, there’s a mechanic similar to Mega Evolution called Bond Evolution. Right now it’s sort of in beta stages, but basically in honest battles, normally you can only have one pokemon carry a ‘bond accessory,’ basically the mega stone for that pokemon, and you have to wear a matching accessory. I’m thinking that when you meet the boss of Team Glamour/Team Grunge, she’ll have used bond evolved her Sylveon/Crobat each time, and she usually fights honorably, but at the final battle, after you defeat her ‘ace’ pokemon, she sends out her final pokemon, the ‘toxic friend’ legendary, and the wristband on her wrist starts to glow, indicating a *second* bond evolution will happen. You have to try and defeat this legendary before the bond evolution completes, in which case it’ll be at its full power. Sorry for the rant, but I feel this has helped me figure out how to make this legendary an interesting one!!! The stuff you talked about made me really realize I can play into the “villain’s goals are based on what the pokemon can do” thing, and I’m excited to see what I can do with that to make it different feeling. If anyone were interested to hear more, I’d be happy to say more but I also don’t want to say too much lol tldr; thanks for making the video, it’s helped me develop an idea for a legendary!
I think that Gen 1 is the Gen that got legendaries best. Yeah, yeah...genwunner. Hear me out. In Gen 1, the legendaries _weren't_ a part of the story. They weren't something the game went out of its way to let you know was there. You had to learn about them on your own, and find them _on your own._ They were special because you had to go _looking_ for them. You didn't even get to find out everything about them, just enough to give you a general idea that they were powerful, and kind of a big deal. The biggest reason legendaries in later generations don't feel special is because the games shove them in your face. The games go out of their way to say, "Hey! This Pokémon is special, and it's time to catch it!" It's not a special thing to find a legendary anymore. It's a part of the expected progression. In the first gen, the legendary pokémon were something to _discover,_ not just be handed to you. In latter games, getting a legendary goes from something that _feels_ special, to something where you're _told_ you're special, given a trophy, and then a speech to remind us how special you are and what a massive power you just "earned" totally by our own merits.
man i could not agree with this video more. especially the legendary narrative lead-up in gen 2, and the fact that their scaled importance within the pokemon universe felt both big enough and intimate. sigh.
So, here's a thought I've had for a while that would tie into one of your ideas: Pokemon can intentionally lower their levels. Maybe Arceus has a "true level" somewhere in the millions or billions. But you can't command that much power because it doesn't trust you that much (and likely never will - you *are* a ten year old)! Instead, it intentionally lowers its level to act as though it is actually level 50. This would allow you to "catch God" without devaluing it. In game mechanics, this would also allow you to intentionally set your Pokemon's levels back for grinding, training, challenges, etc with a level range granted by your friendship with the pokemon and the amount of gym badges you have. This would give players more reason to bond with their pokemon, as well as explain why legendaries always start with 0 friendship.
This is cool. I think it would be great if there was some visual indicator of a Pokemon intentionally lowering its power to match you, in a way, a sign of respect.
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I'm gonna pull an idea that a friend of mine went with when we played a Pokemon TTRPG a few years back. In this world, the legendaries were actual gods (all the legendaries were like this, though this included major and minor gods) with their own special portfolios of what powers they wielded.
However, if a player wanted to actually go capture one of these literal gods, what they could actually catch was an "avatar" of them instead. This way, the god/legendary in question could still go around maintaining their portfolio with godlike power and influence over the world, and the player could have a powerful pokemon in their pocket that, while significantly powerful, also fit within the mechanics of the game.
This is a great idea! I would love to see something like this in a pokémon game!
A fantastic idea! If this was the lore established in the world-building for a reboot (from the start) then writers could do some pretty cool stuff. If players do not expect that to be the case then they could encounter some pretty mysterious scenarios. The player catches one only for their rival to also have one... and that inside of battle, the avatars won't fight each other. Lots of clues like that.
Technically this is what PLA did with Arceus. It describes the Pokemon Arceus as just a part of the whole being.
PTU. It sounds like you were playing PTU
@@RadioactiveMagicGames The Avatars absolutely should be able to fight each other, the issue is when you have the true being fight itself.
A strange curiosity surrounding the regis is the presence of the ancient society that sealed them. With the mystery first beginning with the Ruins of Alph in Jhoto and (to my knowledge) ends with the Undela Ruins in Unova. It is probably the closest thing to giving them a persistent presence across regions. Even then, their story isn’t really about the Regis. It’s about how they slowly came to accept pokemon and negotiate a path to coexistence instead of treating them like irreconcilable threats.
The next closest thing is probably the Fallers, but we still don’t know what that’s leading up to.
As for me, I think the aspect that devalues a legendary the most is redundancy. It’s hard to understand why we have Zarude, Volcanion, Marshadow, and Zeroaura all being similar characters in their respective movies. Distrustful of humans, forced to collaborate bu external threat, which develops into begrudging respect by the end of the story. Having similar powers/significance is also pretty bad >.>
One thing about god-like entities in general is that I like it when they have rules to play by. The red chains, although they don’t even work as intended, are an example from the pokemon series. One I like better is how Dialga and Palkia are handled in Explorers, with their signature moves being taken pretty literally. Roar of Time is how Dialga controls time. That means his powers to affect time can only travel as fast as the speed of sound. A pretty important limitation. Meanwhile, Palkia’s Spacial Rend means he can only affect what he can touch. Likewise, rather than a power cap, I think a writer can always create the special circumstances that allow them to unleash greater powers that would not be practical to accomplish in a day to day setting. A lot of legendaries feature quests to secure their artifacts to summon/meet/transform/ or learn a signature move already anyways. Just a little variety like the Sinjoh ruins would be nicer.
Really great points here!
Yes the repetition in movies absolutely can impact how a player feels about them in the games. The reverse working as well, well written movies could have players love particular Legendaries more (I definitely like Lugia a lot more after the second film!)
I really think you've hit a good point here on "limitations". Even if they are extremely powerful and could indeed control time, having these unique rules to play by allows for some incredible storytelling when a writer gets creative in their uses.
I like the two ways Legends Arceus justifies catching certain legendary Pokemon, and I feel like both are decently good ways to justify the idea in general.
For one, when you catch Enamorus, it's explicitly mentioned that one day, Enamorus WILL outlive you, and will be free again, which got me thinking. I like the idea of some legendary Pokemon simply letting you catch them because you've earned their respect and they want to see what you're up to, as mentioned in the video. After all, they're IMMORTAL. Who cares about losing a single human's lifespan stuck in a ball when you've got PLENTY more time to spend afterwards? And if the human is interesting enough, that time might be worth spending.
The second factor is how Arceus, when you obtain it at the end after completing the Pokedex, explicitly says it's gifting you "a piece of itself". Touching on the same concept a lot of other people have brought up of catching legendary Pokemon's "avatars" instead of catching the actual Pokemon, I think this would be a good way to handle the larger-than-life deity Pokemon that represent huge, cosmic forces. Why can Groudon reshape the land, but only before you catch it? Because before you caught it, it was just an extension of some greater divine being, a single piece of power connected to a greater whole. Once you catch it, it'll still certainly be POWERFUL, but it's still only a piece, severed from the divine entity that bears the rest of its immense potential. Though, this DOES raise the question of what would happen if enough different people managed to obtain "pieces" of that legendary being and bring them together. Maybe they'd be able to tap into more of the greater power that being represents? That'd be an interesting idea.
One more thing I wanted to add to this that came to me after the fact: tying into your own Pokeball lore, maybe it's specifically the process of being converted into D.A.T.A. that severs the connection between a "piece" of a deistic legendary and its greater whole. When the D.A.T.A. encodes a legendary, it only encodes that legendary's physical, biological form, and therefore only contains the amount of power in that relatively small piece of the legendary. That'd also explain why the evil teams never think to, y'know, catch the legendary, and instead go about doing all sorts of funky things to channel/control its power WITHOUT catching it, like using the Red Chain and Red/Blue Orbs.
That was introduced first in Crown Thundra
After helping Calyrex regain his power by making people remember them and rebonding with the steed, it gives you a final test to see if you're worthing. If you manage to capture Calyrex, it will tell you that it will stay with you to acompany tru your travels and experience this new world and eventually there will come a time when they will be free again. It does it not because you "overpowered them" or are "forcing them to stay by using the ball", but because they want to stay with you.
@@crimsonDestroyer why are you typing it D.A.T.A, its not an acronym it comes from the latin datum/data.
@lythd ... Yeah, uh, I don't know if you read, uh, any of my comment other than the word D.A.T.A., but... I am not, in fact, just talking about the word "data". As I clearly stated, I'm referring to the lore established in Radioactive's other video regarding how Pokeballs work in his storyline, which involves converting Pokemon into something called D.A.T.A., or a Dematerialized Atomic Tissue Archive. I highly recommend you watch that video, "World-building the way Pokeballs work". Even without knowing that, you can infer based on the context that I didn't just mean the word "data", given that it requires substantially more effort to type out D.A.T.A. - If that's what I meant, I would have said that. Next time you don't understand what someone is talking about, I recommend you either try to analyze context clues to see if you can make sense of it yourself, or ask for elaboration without attaching it to an attempted correction that sounds smart to you, but is ultimately unrelated.
@@crimsonDestroyer u said it twice and in both cases data would make sense. sorry i havent seen some random video?? and i literally just asked. ur the one with a pretentious reply :)
ok love the video but just thought id point this out arceas in legends arceas told us the arceas we use in battle is only a fraction of its power so we have one finger of the being that made everything
I got a idea that the evil team leader is a legendary Pokémon in disguise
That would be interesting! There are so many things that Legendaries and Villains could be doing differently in each game... and yet...
@@RadioactiveMagicGames well at least it’s not having a interesting concept then someone tell you to alter it because they figure out why people like that character. Yes it’s about Temtem and thinking the professor was the evil team leader from brick bronze is what made him interesting
ooooo that would be so cool. even just changing some things in swsh would make that story more enjoyable, could be a good commentary on real world issues as well! have the eternatus actually secretly be the chairman rose and hes planning on WASTING and DESTROYING all of the resources and land instead of doing some weird thing to get more energy??? could have oleana not know of his true identity and has a crisis and questions her life when she finds out. how much has he lied to her? blaming herself for not seeing his true colors? even a small shine of a could be redemption arc at the end, the heros need some help and she joins them/gives them the information freely. the galar region could have a history of being pretty good at balancing what resources they take from nature and what they return back into it but ever since chairman rose hes been changing things and influences the society in galar to be more wasteful and greedy! i wish gamefreak would make the plots interesting 😭
@@jessegartung294it doesn't even have to be a legendary. A lot of Pokémon have untapped potential. Like Musharna, for example
The evil team could be a hive mind of innocents being controlled by a central malevolent force and the leader could be either a decoy or a person supplying it with power with delusions of being in control of it.
Holy crap that idea came out of nowhere but I love it!
I've seen it explained that Pokeballs restrict the power of legendary pokemon. This is why Cyrus captures the gen 4 legendary with the Red chain rather than a pokeball as he needs it's full power. It's also hinted that the Arceus you catch isn't Arceus itself.
legendary pokemon should be op and should not be in competitive battle
Pretty much confirmed when we look at eternatus and how much more powerfull he is before we get him
@@jerseys89finestthey are thats why they are banned to ubers and why they centralize the vgc after being released
Other people have suggested, but I really like the idea of (some) Legendary Pokemon that the player can use being avatars of the true Legend/God Pokemon. It feels like a compromise between the Level Cap and Uncatchable ideas that takes the best aspects of both.
The Avatars are merely fragments of the Legendary’s true power so you can keep their power level in line with the other Pokemon. Meanwhile you can still have the true Legendary act as an NPC in world perhaps offering a difficult battle or other challenge at a higher power level than normal Pokemon.
This would probably only be necessary for a specific group of Legendaries (mainly the box set). The nomadic set could still be normal Pokemon within the power cap, and have unique methods of encounters.
I quite agree! It really would just take the best of both and yield space for some really interesting story and world-building opportunities.
I agree with everything, but I just love the "TEAM *blank*" too much to let it go. I really dislike the idea of removing that, but I do think the villains could have more purpose.
Koraidon and Miraidon are the best boxart legendaries we’ve had since Reshiram and Zekrom
I agree with every single one of your videos thank you so much for publishing high quality content and I wish the Pokemon company would listen to everything that you say! You are awesome!
Aww! Thank you so much!
I think what kills Legendaries for people is just how easy it is to get them, and how common they are (not in that there's a ton of legendaries, but that there's a ton of each legendary because of things like GO and re-releasing each one for every subsequent game).
I think the mystery and journey to meet a legendary hypes them up properly (see the Regis, the intro encounter with Zacian/Zamazenta, or the Genie trio roaming), then the act of catching them requires a good bit of effort (releasing the ruined legends from SV, battling Eternatus or Ogerpon in a boss fight, overall just not being able to catch them outright unless a lot of effort was required to "prove yourself").
Imagine if we heard whispers of a legend, searched or randomly happened to see it, only for it to run. You track it down and repeatedly encounter it, it fleeing every time. You finally track down its final resting place, puzzle your way to it, then battle it in a boss fight. After all the effort you went through, it lets you catch it of its own accord (like every raid boss being a free catch).
Your channel is part of the inspiration behind some new content we're working on
Keep up the amazing work dude
Cheers! That's awesome to hear!
Aside from the idea that a lot of people mentioned here about catching the avatars of legendary Pokémon, I also like the idea that was presented with Pokémon Scarlet/Violet, where the box legendary was hurt and lost its powers, so it becomes your partner but doesn't have access to the absurd levels of power other legendaries do.
For instance, there are plenty of legendary Pokémon who are known to have a temper, so having one of them clash with another and lose, getting wounded and powered-down, wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Then, your task along the game is to help it recover to its full potential, so you actually earn your possession of a god-like being and it makes sense for the legendary to want to stick around.
A way that I could see something similar happening is through an evolving legendary, like in Pokémon Sun/Moon. Both Nebby and the second Cosmog you get in those games are initally met in a tiny, child-like state where they have no access to the time-space warping capabilities of their final forms and, as the story progresses, you watch them grow, possibly helping them along the way and, in the end, they are already used to being around you, so they stick around
A variant of power-cap is to focus the Legendaries power to things not directly overpowering in combat.
Large in scale, scope and wonder, not direct focused power.
Example: Groudon can slowly control the mantle of the earth on a large scale.
Moving many square kilometers of earth but only at a few kilometers per hour.
So Groudon can create raise a island given a few hours and over millennia create a continent.
But the power is too slow to use directly in combat.
Or a game mechanical representation in the form of a signature move.
Genesis of Earth
Base power 60. Infinite PP.
Increase base power by 20 for each consecutive use. Strikes all Pokemon in battle excluding the user.
This would not be totally unbalanced in game and would represent the power to buildup towards world changing power.
This is a neat idea! I like it!
That move sounds overpowered
Love your content. Your ideas are genuinely interesting and always very well thought out! Great!!!
Thanks so much!
I really like the idea of not being able to catch legendaries in the games but I think there are some exceptions. Let's take Mewtwo for example. After all the things it has been through, I think it's possible for it to be friends with a "pure of heart" kid that showed only love and compassion. The only problem is that every exception needs a story, even a short one, to make such events plausible. But for the most part, it doesn't make any sense for a person, especially an 11 years old, to catch a god-like being only for him/her to display it inside a pc box and occasionally use it in competitive battling and such... Palkia, Dialga, Arceus, Giratina etc. have better things to do than fullfil futile desires of some random kid. Avatars are a great idea but they'd break the immersion as if we had the legendary itself, thus to work properly, Game Freak have to put some real efforts in the writing of the plot and in the stories behind these omnipotent pokémon. Anyway, great great video! 😁
Thank you! I agree, if there wasn't a limit to Pokemon's power there could still be a limit to what the player could catch, with some legendaries actually falling below the "uncatchable" line. Mewtwo is a legendary you can catch, Giratina is NPC only.
I think Game Freak has started realizing the power creep and Gen 8 and 9 have more toned down box legendaries compared to the literal PokéGods that came before it. Legendary heroes who fought off an even more powerful legendary is fine, even if Eternatus was a bit apocalyptic.
In Gen 9 (spoilers) the box legendaries aren't gods or anything at all, just the ancient precursor or future successor to Cyclizar, a common Pokemon you can catch in Gen 9. Like they're super powerful, but they're just apex Pokemon in their ecosystems. They don't have the power to make universes or terraform planets, just cart boarding school students around the region. 😅
Gen 8 has more toned down legends
Meanwhile zacian and calyrex over here are in the top five strongest mons ever.
@@onehappyboy3029 I was referring to being narratively toned down, not mechanically toned down, which as you point out Gen 8 absolutely was not. My point is that they're legendary Pokemon who just saved a region once (well twice by the end of the game). They aren't Arceus creating the whole universe or Kyogre forming the seas.
@@survivordave Yeah. gen 8 did tone down the legends. While it is implied calyrex is responsible for crop growth to an extent at least. The rest are not really gods per say like kyogre
i just found your channel and have so many videos waiting to be seen! i love the level of proffesionalism you put into these analyses, the reasoning behind them, the explanations you provide.
hope your channel keeps growing!
I feel like Gamefreak themselves realized their mistake.
Nowadays the legendaries are either lower in terms of their lore power (Zacian/Zamazenta, the paradox legends,etc.) or have special powers that they loose when you catch them (Giratina in PLA has an omnibuff and 2 health bars, Eternatus doesn't have its Eternamax form,etc.) and Arceus was outright said to be just an avatar and a piece of a greater whole. PLA also expanded on the whole catching-thing, implying that Pokemon could leave their trainers and that they can't be catched if they don't want to, so if the 5 year old catches them with a fast ball, then it works because the legendary is ok with that, not because it looses to the power of a fast ball.
I also think what works for the legendaries is that they can have powers that are powerful....but not battle related. Groudon and Kyogre can cause massive rainstorms/droughts, but just because these abilities have a huge range, doesn't mean they also have a comparable power in battle.
I keep coming back to this gem of a video. Nomadic legendaries is not a distinction I thought of before watching this, and damn you’re right - they truly feel legendary.
You present astute observations, good breakdowns and bold suggestions - the kind of deeper analysis of pokemon content that I’ve been looking for a long time. It’s been a big source of inspiration for my own fakemon design. Thanks for the quality thoughts you put out!
I'm happy to hear you are enjoying them so much! Thank you :)
The Tao trio is my favorite legendary trio
It's always nice to see Poland referenced in a video! 😊
makes me think in D&D, the notorious Dragon Goddess Tiamat is infamous for being a villain for majority of the campaign books and when the players finally reach to the point of a campaign when they can actually can face her in combat. They don't but instead they face a "aspect" of her. Which similar in how you can receive Arceus in Legends.
As a small vocab thing. I've heard a good word to use for "power creep" when not refering to mechanical power, but instead to the stakes or the "scale" of the setting/threat "scale creep", which personally I find more fitting. "Power creep" still comminicates the idea fine though
theres lore reasons why pokemon appear and get caught, they want to be captured if they show up to you in the first place
I really do like the idea of legendaries working like megas. Ie you only have ONE per team. And once you let it out, it becomes your problem too, since you have to fill some prerequisite to call them back. And when it loses to something other than another of its ilk, it's not fainting, it's becoming enraged and leaving for the rest of the battle
I like the idea of maybe doing both. Have the power cap idea for some legendries and allow some legendries to go beyond level 100 and TRULLY be the gods they represent (the ones above 100 being uncatchable)
Great video!
I remember a DM of Call of Cthulu on said: "the elder gods must never have stats".
They're supposed to be beings beyond comprehension, and stats quiet literally are measurable parameters for they can do and represent. Doesn't matter if they have stats in the billions when the players only reach 20s, they shouldn't have stats.
Most legendaries are definitely, not eldritch nightmares from beyond reality, and most who are, are just Pokémon from somewhere different (UBs and Paradoxes).
As for the few that are gods (weather, creation, xyz), I think Eternatus showed a way to convey their power, without doing something silly like lvl 1 million mons: Exclusive story forms.
They grow big, are super strong, and the player has to beat them using the special game mechanic and the power of friendship.
Then, for regular gameplay, we just say they're not full power and that's it.
Making "realistic" legendaries
1. As you discussed, have their powers not be global/ dimensional so; shaped a region, has space/time powers in its den, created the PKMN of the region.
Part of the evils team deviousness would be pushing them beyond their limits.
If creatures this powerful and worshipped were real, their worship would surely spread to other regions, people and PKMN often travel between regions, but this is not really seen.
2. Avatars; a single part of their omnipotent presence, this makes extra sense for Arceus as it has 18 forms (types).
You could also better justify very similar trios, eg Aspects of "The Sword of Justice", or a Genie who can multiply and shape shift.
3. Uncatchable, but can be copied/ recreated. We have Dittos, and we can revive fossils with no living DNA. Why not combine a Moltres feather with a Ditto to make something similar but weaker (easiest way would be give it Dittos HP stat).
They could even be recreated as a digital hologram. If a Legendary likes you enough to let you scan it they you can "have your own" that way too!
You could also have the legendaries choose to bestow an avatar or such of their power in the form of a caught pokemon. I'd still argue it should be more powerful than most other pokemon of the same level.
Editor does a very good job.
Buuut I'l still consider referring to you two as one person. :P
"It's a collaborative effort", as a certain _part of me_ would say. Funny how the work of many different people transforms in the viewers perspective into a singular entity...
Other funny note is how it's another one of those topics where my opinion is opposite of the direction that you chose. I'd lean towards "no ceiling" option with the ability of gaining a "part" of them in the most unbalanced cases after finishing required quests.
Edit: So, pretty much like it is now in the game, it seems. Except adding a quest part where it's lacking.
I think that there needs to be a distinction between pokemon that are merely very powerful and unique from pokemon that are litteral gods
Koraidon and Miraidon may be powerful beasts, but they dont command fundamental aspects of the world, like time or space.
In other words, i feel like there shouldve been a distinction between legendaries and god-like pokemon.
Legends establishes that the Arceus you obtain is just a manifestation of the actual Arceus. It would hardly be a stretch to suggest this applies to any other Pokemon that's divine in nature.
I think you could have a middle ground that would work. Some more sapient pokémon like arceus grant you a fraction of their power, a smaller vessel for a time because of story reasons, but you still have "an arceus", similarly to how eternamax eternatus is the real eternatus, but you can only catch him after he's been permanently weakened.
Alternatively, you could make it even harder to catch, and pokémon can't move unless they're level 100, similarly to how your pokémon can't attack zamazenta/zacian at first. Or perhaps their energy is too much for the PC, so it's released if you ever try to put it in there, so it takes a permanent spot on your team, or even the second it's let out its pokéball breaks and you'll need to catch it again - that'd be interesting if nothing else
I feel like everyone here is right on avatars being a good substitute for the catching of legendaries. However, I feel like a cool idea could be the exact opposite of your 'level cap.' Rather than cap legendaries, just don't. Level 100 is rare? Level 500 is near impossible, unless your imortal enough to have the time. Have the battles with legendaries go *beyond* the bounds of levels and be proper end game bosses. Then even if you roll up with a full team of level 100 pokemon, it's still a struggle that requires strategy. It would also allow for legendaries to almost be ranked.
Arceus is *the* boss so it is level ???, and is the most difficult boss of any game. Period. Dialga and Palkia are a bit below, so 500. But they are literal gods of time and space, so its fine. Then you have things like the lake trio, other minor gods, or long-lived and important pokemon at maybe 200. Then pokemon that are essentially just rare, but not technically gods or anything could be actually caught, such as a lot of the mythicals (like mew, diance, zarude), except their events are tied to special locations and story lines in the game (So that despite no major battle, they still feel important).
Then of course once you beat them, they decide you have proven yourself and give you a 'slice' of their power, or avatar as everyone else has said. Because 'gotta catch 'em all' may not be their slogan anymore, but its what people want to do.
Also, being more so bosses would allow legendaries and legendary locations to be so much better. As legends will be hidden behind puzzles, mazes, lesser bosses and so on.
This might also allow for the game to be slightly harder, as level 80 isn't that high anymore given that the gods are no longer tied to that level. So while level 100 is really rare, a champion may have level 90-95 because to become a champion, you really *have* to be the best.
(Also, of course, I exaggerated levels, level 500 with 100s would be like fighting a 100 with a team of eggs. Though I still like the idea of a party of 100s not being enough in some cases as to really drive home the power dynamic and difference you don't see with level 80 pokemon. (i.e. you just can't beat Arceus, but if you widdle it down by like a quarter of its health, it will be impressed despite your loss.))
-- Rant End --
1:52 I think that's what does Legendary to be a true legendary:
1) Design. Trinity of Teal Mask i hardly call legendary's, because they look like a a little stronger than the others,and Game Freak was understood this,and gave to them not very strong characteristics.
2) Difficult to obtain. In order to get a conditional Beautyfly in the early game, you need to look for it for a very long time from the crowd of other Pokemon. To get some kind of Tapu - Poko, you need to go to the electronic event in DLC. BUT : it's about a Pokémon like Enternatus ,Zacian , Nekrosma. They are a plot creatures, so they can't just be brought into some DLS, because it's meta. Also, Zapdos or Entey are do not have a complex meaning and they are not necessary. So they can be used
fun fact about Arceus
thanks to Legend Arceus
we now know that what we battle and catch, isn't Arceus itself
rather just 1 of its thousand arms
Here I thought Arceus' thousand arms were the Unown.
I would kind of blend the two ideas, and have box cover legendaries be kind of the ultimate nomadic legendary. They get to be boss fights early in the game but you can't catch them then. Instead, IMO how I would do it is have all the legendaries be postgame content, with the exception of the game's Legendary Trio, who I would have be mostly postgame content, but I would give a lifeline to players struggling to beat the elite 4 by having them unlock before postgame if you've lost to the elite four 5 times (or some other number. 5 just seemed like enough times to not be so much as to be punishing to people struggling, but enough that intentionally losing wouldn't be too prioritized)
your videos are so good
There was a braille guide in the box
[Lore power] and [mechanical power] don't need to be linked (or [battle power] and [world power], for that matter), Ditto isn't an all powerful shapeshifter _outside_ of direct battles, and _even then_ it is _too fragile_ to really compare to most of what it would want to become.
So the legendries can have powerful "field effects" that aren't super-helpful in the middle of a battle.
The ability to raise small landmasses over the course of five-to-seven business days isn't going to help much in a twenty-minute battle, after all.
I like the idea of being able to catch my tics with master all but not legendaries and instead having to max out friendship and completing there tasks/quest for example Suicune lets say due to team rocket and juts people waters are becoming polluted so the Pokemon in them are dying (and in game lower spawn rates, all start off poisons and minder leveled etc) and your job is to help clean up these waters, and prevent it happening again etc and once the whole regain has very healthy water you can catch suicune or something
I dont really think it makes any sense for pokemon to represent something, but not be able to control it in any way. After all, if... say groudon just represented the land, but couldn't manipulate it, then why would people associate it with the land at all?
I think a mix of options 1 and 2 are best. For example God like Pokemon like Archeus should fall under option 2 while for something like Zapdos or Mewtwo option 1 is best.
I think a pretty nice way gamefreak can make their new games is to make it so that, if you loose at certain important points, you'll see the effects of it (and maybe even a whole seperate path)
Well what you get of arceus in the game as explained in legends arceus, is its just a piece, a copy with barely any of arceus's actual power
What if the legendary pokemon grants you an egg that''ll hatch into a legendary that will be just as powerful as them one day, just not in your lifetime?
My favorite way of treating the legendaries is the ones that are _less_ involved in the game's plot. Literally the only time that the main box art legendaries being involved in the plot improved the plot itself or meant _anything_ was Hoenn, and even then the better legendaries that generation were the ones you had to hunt for and solve in-universe mysteries to find (the Regi quest was the best even if the Reggies themselves were duds, Latios and Latias are both cute and powerful, and Deoxys is cool).
I like uncatchable over level cap
These bike Pokémon make me see why wheels really don't work on biology.
Bro, you explained my issue with the POwer Creep of Legendaries SO WELL. I'm not at all a fan of the step-up with Sinnoh making Legendaries the literal EMBODIMENTS of things like Time, Space, Emotion, etc. Them being powerful influencers of those things is one thing(the Weather Trio), but to make them the sole causes of the world being held together? And to have a young child hold that much power in their PokeBall...? Only for it to be able to be KO'd by lesser Pokemon? And don't get me started with Arceus being the literal GOD of the PokeVerse.....Yea, that stuff is just too much.
Surprise surprise I would go with the uncatchable route because it aligns with all I said about them, what they are, what defines them, and how they thrive in the negative space of the world and the presence they exude. These legends have duties, domains, and roles that are simply more important than human squabbles even those that regularly side with and interact with humans. The legendarys don't care whether or not people know they exist because that doesn't matter in regards to fulfilling their purpose and job, and they absolutely hate being personally messed with or their domains being messed with particularly by people that have no idea what they are doing or simply don't care. Attempting to obstruct their duties, separate them from their domains, or prevent them from doing their job is going to be met with several retribution which is why the anime usually treats catching these legendarys as a big no no. So in a reboot you would be relying on your pokedex's scanning and recording features to obtain as much information as possible from all possible sources while you have the chance because unless you are the luckiest person in the world or is loved by the poke-pantheon you won't be seeing that legendary for another few centuries at best. While you can't catch them, because the legendarys have more important things to do with will leave whenever they want, you can earn their favor and respect and will be able to call upon that favor later in life. Best not to abuse it because that will end horribly for everyone. I believe that there is more value for world building by treating legendarys as what they are and having them be the sole exception in the system where you call forth the legendary more akin to a Final Fantasy summon. In the pokemon world those stories and legends are almost always true right down to the smallest details and I don't want that to change. The legends and rarity are a result of what the legendarys are not the other way around.
As a side note I know that some real life people will want legendarys to be evil or be villainized in universe, but one important aspect of the legendarys is that none of them are evil, they are simply what they are. There is no pokemon devil for example no many how many times people try to paint Giratina as one. Legendarys also rarely ever engage in conflict with each other unless the system, as in the tapestry of their domains and rules known as reality as directed and dictated by Arceus, allows it or is built around it. They know how powerful they are and why they exist and the resulting calamity that would result isn't acceptable in their eyes. They are simply too powerful. There is a reason why there are so many superweapons whose entire purpose is to summon, control, or use a legendary as a power source. Usually the villains use these but sometimes the script can be flipped depending on the nature of the structure.
Weird idea but if you’re sentient, maybe instead of capturing, gonna be conformed contract with them were like you can summon them if you meet certain conditions and then after defeating them.
Good video!
i think what makes arceus arceus is because it was made to be the god
the only reason you can catch it in PLA was probably because they seemed you worthy
why would you get sent to the past anyways
and it doesnt appear anywhere else
but i agree its stupid it can get fainted from lvl 1 pokemon tho
I think at the point you make, everything should just be mythical then, if it’s more their story that’s important.
I much prefer The Power Cap way. I would like to design the Legendaries as rare Pokemons that have unique abilities and are surrounded by a lot of myths and legends. Legendaries are highly specialized in certain abilities, and they have significant weaknesses that can be taken advantage of. They can do things that no other Pokemon can do or they can do certain things extremely well, but they are not gods or immortal beings. I think Dragonfall by Storylover-Vodhr from fanfiction is a fantastic example. Storylover-Vodhr redesigns Latios and Latias completely. Firstly, Latis are very numerous (In the story there are more than 1000 Latios and Latias lived in Altomare 10 years after the event of Heroes ) but still very rare compared to things like Pikachus. Each Lati is specialized in certain abilities and weak in other areas. They can either be very stealthy, be a good shapechanger, be a good flyer, or be a swimmer. However, humans in the past think every Lati are good at all the abilities mentioned, thus myths and legends that exaggerated their abilities were told. Lati lives in large communities and the community is run under the principle of social specialization.
I like the idea of making most of the truely god-like ones uncatchable.
And if people really wants to use them maybe give them that mythical treatment where it's a special gift and a story or something
Ohhh this video is gonna be helpful, for my box art legendaries, yes, but especially for my third legendary, which is good because I came here with the intention of figuring it out!
My legendary trio is based on the ideas of friendship- yeah cliche but, I wanted to toy around with that idea. They didn’t make friendship, but they helped connect a lot of people and pokemon together through their respective means; care (think how you had to evolve Eevee into Sylveon through Pokemon Amie in XY), dedication (think how you had to evolve Crobat by training with it and staying by it’s side in battle), but also sacrifice. The two box art legendaries represent Care and Dedication, but the villain actually never goes for those two legendaries. Instead, she goes for a third legendary, one that is supposed to represent sort of a toxic friendship. I’m thinking in the original 2 ‘games,’ you’ll never be able to catch this “toxic friendship” pokemon because it’s already owned by the villain. Even after you beat the villain, she keeps the pokemon, in the attempt to maybe redeem it.
I’m kinda thinking it’d actually be cool for the ‘final fight’ to mix what you said about a different challenge from the villain, and a different challenge from the legendary. Sort of? So in Pokemon C/D, there’s a mechanic similar to Mega Evolution called Bond Evolution. Right now it’s sort of in beta stages, but basically in honest battles, normally you can only have one pokemon carry a ‘bond accessory,’ basically the mega stone for that pokemon, and you have to wear a matching accessory. I’m thinking that when you meet the boss of Team Glamour/Team Grunge, she’ll have used bond evolved her Sylveon/Crobat each time, and she usually fights honorably, but at the final battle, after you defeat her ‘ace’ pokemon, she sends out her final pokemon, the ‘toxic friend’ legendary, and the wristband on her wrist starts to glow, indicating a *second* bond evolution will happen. You have to try and defeat this legendary before the bond evolution completes, in which case it’ll be at its full power.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel this has helped me figure out how to make this legendary an interesting one!!! The stuff you talked about made me really realize I can play into the “villain’s goals are based on what the pokemon can do” thing, and I’m excited to see what I can do with that to make it different feeling. If anyone were interested to hear more, I’d be happy to say more but I also don’t want to say too much lol
tldr; thanks for making the video, it’s helped me develop an idea for a legendary!
This would be such a fun game. I'd rather play this than temtem XD.
I think that Gen 1 is the Gen that got legendaries best. Yeah, yeah...genwunner. Hear me out. In Gen 1, the legendaries _weren't_ a part of the story. They weren't something the game went out of its way to let you know was there. You had to learn about them on your own, and find them _on your own._ They were special because you had to go _looking_ for them. You didn't even get to find out everything about them, just enough to give you a general idea that they were powerful, and kind of a big deal.
The biggest reason legendaries in later generations don't feel special is because the games shove them in your face. The games go out of their way to say, "Hey! This Pokémon is special, and it's time to catch it!" It's not a special thing to find a legendary anymore. It's a part of the expected progression. In the first gen, the legendary pokémon were something to _discover,_ not just be handed to you. In latter games, getting a legendary goes from something that _feels_ special, to something where you're _told_ you're special, given a trophy, and then a speech to remind us how special you are and what a massive power you just "earned" totally by our own merits.
man i could not agree with this video more. especially the legendary narrative lead-up in gen 2, and the fact that their scaled importance within the pokemon universe felt both big enough and intimate. sigh.
I feel like legendary pokemon should be like gods in pokemon world,or protector
So, here's a thought I've had for a while that would tie into one of your ideas:
Pokemon can intentionally lower their levels.
Maybe Arceus has a "true level" somewhere in the millions or billions. But you can't command that much power because it doesn't trust you that much (and likely never will - you *are* a ten year old)! Instead, it intentionally lowers its level to act as though it is actually level 50. This would allow you to "catch God" without devaluing it. In game mechanics, this would also allow you to intentionally set your Pokemon's levels back for grinding, training, challenges, etc with a level range granted by your friendship with the pokemon and the amount of gym badges you have. This would give players more reason to bond with their pokemon, as well as explain why legendaries always start with 0 friendship.
This is cool. I think it would be great if there was some visual indicator of a Pokemon intentionally lowering its power to match you, in a way, a sign of respect.
『p』『r』『o』『m』『o』『s』『m』 😅
Most mythicals, especially the new dlc ones, are beyond unnecessary and dumb
I know Temtem have power creep in the plot because no one cares about politics in a game about collecting monsters