@@Eeter26 Technically, it would be possible to build these sort of cars with modern materials, engineering and design. The thing is the cost. It would be extremely expensive to build this sort of machines today and no one would want to risk millions to start a racing franchise that no manufacturer would want to be a part of...
I like it, it reminds me of USAC and sprint cars; back when to a casual observer Indy, F1 and sprint cars looked pretty similar except for the tire size.
I always assumed that the cars didn't have enough power to use bigger tyres and overcome the extra weight and rolling resistance. Same reason why downforce wasn't viable until the 70s. Could be wrong tho
no you don"t have you taken leave of your senses? if you go down that road the Bealieu motor museum will look like a kids hot wheels assortment. you"ll be drawing glasses and a moustache on the mona lisa next. how old are you ? ten?
If the car had wider and taller front tires, it would look sooooo good. The massive rear tires surprisingly fit the car and give it a more aggressive stance
The front tyres were kept small to reduce drag, and also reduce oversteer, as even with such large rear tyres the available power exceeded the maximum grip. Making the front tyres larger would make the car slower, both on straights and in corners, as there is no way to tune the front/rear balance with downforce as in modern F1 cars.
Back in the 70's a local store would sell slot cars like these and I would change the tires for AFX slicks and race an oval track with thicker tires. The cars worked much better and you could still drift on couners. We had fun modifing the slot cars between different parts. I could never understand why the cars came with skinny ties. My favorite car was Apple red with white strips like the one your driving. Later on in scouts I made my pinewood Derby car the same shape and color. I enjoyed this video😃 good idea to show this it bought back memories of all the good times racing with slot cars.
Cool concept man. I myself wish F1 would eliminate all downforce and create modern safe versions of late 60's F1 cars relying solely on mechanical grip. Would make much better wheel to wheel racing.
You'll have to do something about the modern circuits though if you want that wheel-to-wheel racing. And you must know that you won't get the aesthetics of those '60s cars with the safety requirements of today.
@Charles Gnarley Old school is a relative term. Looking at it from today, sure. From the perspective of the cars we're talking about, no. Phillip Island, Watkins Glen, Brands Hatch, and Mosport are products of the '50s and '60s. I don't think too many people think of Jarama or Killarney as standout classics, even if Jarama has been improved with that extension in 1990. Technically, Anderstorp was a product of the '60s, but most have the perception it came about in the '70s; even I kind of have that feeling, and it's not seen as a great classic in the same vein as a number of those others. Its layout certainly is nothing special, and it's flatter than Le Mans Bugatti. Dijon-Prenois and Mugello are circuits of the '70s. For the period, like the old Estoril, they're quite good, but that still means we're using significant qualifiers here. In terms of lap speed, none of these circuits are standouts when looking at the '50s or '60s cars as they were. The average speed range for F1 in 1967 was ~80-150 mph across the different circuits; if you omit Monaco, the range is ~100-150 mph. I know, or can expect, all those you suggest (using Glen GP layout) to fall into the lower half of the range (under 115 mph average), and Jarama, Mugello, Killarney and Anderstorp to be under 100 mph average. Even the Nurburgring, King of the technical circuits, had a 1967 Pole Lap average of 105 mph and change. Just to take one of your recommendations as an example, and compare it to its peers. In 1967 Can-Am, Mosport had the 5th fastest max average lap speed of 6 tracks. For the 1969 Can-Am season, it was 8th of 11. Also, one of the key items with having side-by-side racing, regardless of the cars, is that a section has multiple, viable lines. This is precluded in many areas of newer circuit designs, because of the acute, sharp, almost angular corners we see, and often with more than one such corner in a row. In addition, complex sequences of esses are almost extinct. I mean, they literally destroyed the Esses at Mexico City, at least in terms of them being a single, continuous complex where you have to flow it all the way through. They got rid of a couple of the corners, and turned a couple of the others into much tighter, single-line turns, so you only have to do okay in 2 corners, and then park it on the next, slow apex. The thing is, these sequences present opportunities where you have to sacrifice one corner for another in order to get the best lap time, but that can leave you open to someone making a move in places. However, modern circuits are very much, proper corner-straight-proper corner, or maybe a couple proper corners in a row, but practically none of that old, sinuous stuff. And even with the example circuits you gave, only Dijon and Phillip Island have this in any particular measure: the back side at Phillip Island (Siberia to MG) and a few corners either side of the turn-offs to Parabolique. I'll add, along with the extension to Parabolique, they tightened Bretelle even if you continued to use the Short Course. So, I'm still not seeing how we get the desired result, because even then, we're left with a dearth of fast corners and high-speed circuits, likewise when it comes to our complement of circuits more similar to Charade or complexes such as the Esses at Mexico City.
@Charles Gnarley That's fine, but this still aren't the sort of tracks the 1950s and '60s cars ran on by any stretch. So I'm not expecting the same sort of racing from those cars as I would from actual, period circuit, as would only be reasonable. Don't expect to see an F1 car of less than 600 kg and under 5 meters in length again. A 1957 Maserati 250F or 1967 Lotus 49 were already over 4 meters long. A 1991 Ferrari 643 was 4.4 meters long, and still didn't have today's provision for footbox protection. The added crash structure is going to add dimension and weight to the car, guaranteed. And just to note, the cars in the '80s were wider than the ones we have now, so why didn't that have a more pronounced impact on overtaking, especially on track narrower than today's? You bringing up Senna, it should be noted that the rule changes after his crash included intentionally making the aero dirtier. And I'm still pretty coninced that the aero issues are overplayed, while the accordion effect goes almost totally unmentioned. If you have cars that accelerate like they have for a few decades now, the physical gap on a long straight after a slow corner is going to blow out by default. This is made worse when the slow corners now are generally even slower than they used to be, and frequently you have more than one in a row, so you're forced to give up time gap to the guy in front. The excessive tire wear from this, from having to give up time every time you don't make a pass, can't be helping things, either. The problem is, you're going to have very few high-speed corners on tracks today, even the classic ones that still exist relatively untouched. I wouldn't even expect Monza to be a 120-mph circuit with the 3 chicanes and tighter Lesmos. I'd expect Silverstone, Spa, and Suzuka to be roughly 3-minute laps. You don't have have those wild, sinuous tracks like Charade that would make a 3-minute lap worth it anymore. The surroundings don't come right up to the track, giving that sense of speed. Even at a classic track such as Watkins Glen or Road America, watching the external cameras, my 8-10-year old nephew was still like, "Why do they look like they're going so slow?" (Keep in mind, the research says, in order to really get someone hooked on a thing for life, you basically need to hook them in the age 6-10 range.) "Every corner and every braking area was an overtaking zone." Please take off your rose-tinted glasses. That's not even remotely true, and I probably don't even need to bring up the Nurburgring with that one. Also, back in the day, guys didn't fight as hard for position in many cases because they needed to preserve their cars for the race duration. Given increased reliability and the blocking behavior of today's drivers, the picture will be rather different, even with a modern take on the cars and at a track like Road America. I've said it before, but these discussion overlook that fact that you're not going to have as interesting tracks to go to. You're not going to have high-speed circuits. The cars aren't going to look the way you or I would fantasize, and this is a fantasy. And with modern technology, they're not going to behave the way we envision that we'd like them to. Those really lurid slides won't happen because of advancements in suspensions and differentials, not to mention, slinging it around erratically is slower than being smooth about it. But that smooth style isn't nearly as obvious or visually dramatic. And going back to the acceleration thing in combination with the accordion effect, if that 1,000-hp McLaren M23 is blowing out the physical gap on the long straight after a hairpin or other fairly slow corner, how's the reduced braking capability possibly going to pull that greater physical distance back in? (That is, a greater physical gap than you'd have with the 485 hp the M23 actually had.) At the end of the day, the fantasy won't be fulfilled, not in the aesthetics of the cars or tracks, not in the sense of speed of the cars, and not in the perceptual reward, because I cerebrally know these cars aren't the best that could be made, unlike those from the '50s and '60s. Also, the prospect of zero, truly high-speed circuits with such cars is unappealing. And finally, I'll reiterate that I don't see aero as the problem people make it out to be, especially if you don't intentionally make it dirty aero due to rule restrictions. I've been watching a fair bit of Super GT lately, and they put on a show, even with enough downforce for the GT500s to give LMP2s a run for their money.
considering modified fornula3 races exists. im surprised no one tried to remade mechanical grip cars, i mean, a formula 4(instead of three for weight and price reason) with no wings or aero and a naked 5 cylinder in the middle looked cool
dude you need more subscribers. you commentary is legendary. i love your videos. Your '55 GPL series is the closest thing we will have to the real season
For gods sake please stop calling it „Nords“! It’s a stupid nonsense word that has no meaning in German, it’s just gibberish! If you want to shorting it correctly (because Nordschleife or Nürburgring are apparently way to hard for some people…) call it „The Ring“. That’s the official shortname that every race car and motorcycle driver uses. If you say „Nords“ in real life, everyone will look at you and ask if you’re retarded. Stop bastardizing language please!
This was actually done back in the 1970s, IIRC. They put some of the newer tires on some late 50s GP cars and we’re amazed at how close they got to then current lap times.
With the tyres on it it reminds me of those US Offenhauser powered Indy cars of the 60s. For 50s cars the BRM V16 does it for me. This is what Fangio wrote about it, "I consider it to be, basically, the best Formula One car ever made. All it needs is improvement in certain details. No car has ever given me such a thrill to drive, or a greater sense of absolute mastery. I will stand by it".
Oh my God!! But what a piece of work !! These are really the things that motivate me, since I was a child: how would certain cars of the '50s with wheels and brakes 20 years more advanced have been? In Formula 1, Road Tourism, SP, etc ... My most sincere and effusive congratulations !!! I hope to see more things like this and obviously I'm going to try to do them myself (I'm a Modder on various car and aeronautics simulators). A big hug, and a very happy 2021 from Argentina !!
I think you could fit spoilers from the early 70s on the Maseratti 250F ... I was trying to imagine it while I was watching it ... And the truth is that the idea fascinates me !!!
Awesome experiment. I agree, the car looks great with the modifications, almost like a sprint car/super modified. Would be interesting to see what the '37 Auto Union would feel like with this "treatment". It's already closer to modern times with that rear mounted engine 🤔
just plain no... that '37 auto union has the front and back axle/suspension design of a freaking vw beatle. You are basically saying nealry 20 years of automotive development a one world war just went by with no gains performance wise?!
There's a very important fact there that a lot of people don't realise. Tyres determine the limit of braking performance, not brakes. If you can lock up the brakes, the tyres are the limiting factor.
For some reason as cursed as this mod is in terms of changing the bicycle tires to much grippier slick tires from the '70s, quite drastically changed how the 250F performs on the braking and cornering aspect. It's unrealistic as hell but extremely fun to watch lol
@@npanic628 I don't think it took them that long to have the idea. However, it doesn't matter if the tire/materials technology doesn't exist to make the idea possible to execute in practice. If the rubber compound is too hard, you'll still spin them up, and with the brakes of the day, you can't really slow down much better anyway. Not to mention, wider tires means more drag.
@@Villoresi true, id imagine its because of drag. Since the 30s GP cars were made with only 1 thing in mind, making it as slippery through the air as possible, and with most race tracks at the time having very few slow or flowing corners the need for grip was lesser than the need for aerodynamic efficiency
Interesting! Same as with other experiments you made. Keep on doing them please! I keep hoping you can make suck mods available one day... It's also funny to see how the AIs keep up with these experimental cars you create... an indirect challenge to Kunos development team!
This should definately be featured on an online server. I always love online races with old F1 cars, but they are often too demanding to drive to have good racing. This however would be a perfect middle ground!
Yes, the Acque Minerale at the original Imola, which this basically is, is the best version of that double-right, though even the configuration it's in today is so much better than that awful chicane they had there for 1980-94. You're preaching to the choir about the beauty of the Maserati 250F. A number of the F1 cars from that period are real stunners. Sounds like variations on the "Le Mans" movie soundtrack there at the end.
I think you've got the tyre ratio from a mid engine car, but this is front/mid engine, meaning more weight on the front with small tyres will have more understeer/front brake lockups. Great videos though :) I've been watching your stuff for a few weeks now, and wish that you did collab stuff, because I'd raise my hand haha
at about 3:08; that's a late sixties northeast super (I know it's not, but old indy cars with slicks were like this and running around with scratch-built super-modifieds). These things were still around at various tracks in New England, at least, until the late seventies. I loved 'em.
Fantastic!, This virtual mod to an older car is a very common practice that happens in the real world of cars. An example is people take 150s-60s cars and upgrade all sorts of components! It makes for exciting cars and keeping the older look of the cars going... Anyway, great job! and experiment!
I just realised how safer Tamburello were without run-offs: much lower angle of impact. Oval-type concrete barrier, as at original Österreichring curves, may prevent the grave consequences of those horrific crashes that had happened there.
I have to say, these look really fun to drive. Would love to see how it translates into reality with enough simulation testing and engineering put into it. These should definitely be an option for online racing at the very least. Really enjoyed the aggressive look!
Very Nice. An old circuit, that of Imola until the 1970s, without the many chicanes that exist today. Those who ran by car knew the risks they ran. Very realistic. In Imola, which is my home circuit (I live in Bologna), I raced there in the 1970s, when they started building chicanes. An objection to the graphic realization of the video: the Tamburello curve was narrower and more dangerous. The time was kept by those who made it in full. Greetings.
Sebastian Vettel would complain that the windscreen gave him motion sickness. Joking aside, a modern iteration of this might give a revitalization to F1. No wings, no ground effect; just a strong body (with radical modifications to maintain adequate safety), fat tyres, a forward mounted engine, and driver talented and brave enough to drive it.
Way cool, people are saying "like a midget or sprint car but stretched". That would be USAC "Champ" car. I've thought of this concept tires/brakes but with that much traction I'd guess the suspension and chassis would wind up like a spring. This chassis was good for it's day but those cars were drift cars really. Now with this added massive traction the load goes into the chassis.
It's always quality content. From the concepts, to the execution, and all the little things like always having background music to fit the theme (I'd like to dig through your record collection!)
That’s a lotta compressor on the voice Lol Super interesting video man! I personally like the way it looks. Then again, I’ve always been partial to late 60s early 70s F1 design.
Supermodified fan here...Interesting look...I was going to say the Lancia looks a bit like a Watson roadster, if they were driven by much of the field in USAC in around 1969...Maybe like Herk's Mallard in '68???...There's an idea....INDY ROADSTERS AT MONZA!!!! Race of Two Worlds...
My dude, you keep creating these amazing hybrids that I wish I could drive in my game! Awesome stuff, thanks for uploading and I hope you have a great new year.
It's crazy to see how much detail games like assetto corsa have put into their game in the name of sim racing. @ 1:27 you can even see the tyre slip and how the tyre walls flex as they still have contact patch where your car was.
After watching a lot of your videos now, I kinda wanna see an IRL or Iracing series that is "modified" retro cars. Or a "Formula Retro" series where it's modernized racing on older racing cars. Like older race cars with modern tech in them.
Last going off a yr ago or so, maybe a bit more (before PC bricked) - I would rotary swap every car (basically) I had an inkling to drive. My favorite was putting a 13b in an alpine A110 and doing the simtraxx swiss alps, good laughs
Very interresting actually, the thing is with the old tyres you would have oversteer and progressively by increasing slip angle you would have understeer (that's why it was easier to handle because it wouldn't spin uncontrollably). However with the new tyres the inherent understeer was noticeable in all aspects and I think this is because the small front tyres would heat up much more and faster than the rears hence giving up grip. I don't see a viable solution through any sort of setup to fix this. If you distribute the weight and brake bias rearwards would alleviate the temperatures a bit but would cause understeer though other means, would overall increase grip but make the car harder to predict. The only thing I can think of is to lower the tyres pressures in the rear as much as possible and increase the front. Still it wouldn't fix the problem and would cause other issues, it will be a vicious cycle. The way the car and tyres are built the only thing that would help is to add a humongous amount of downforce in the front... and then you got a 70's F1 car
What is amazing about the standard 250F is the straight line speed with those skinny tyres, would be awesome to see them on a modern F1 car and with no aero
not only add grip, but if u want add some slipstream values at ur mod cause in real life big wheels augments the drag so the slipstream effect is stronger.
Something like this is what would be awesome in reality. A monocoque with modern safety standards, fat tires, no aero... 😍
Unfortunately you can’t have that body style and modern safety at the same time
@@Eeter26 sadly not...
There should be a series with zero down force... Formula Zero
Yes!
@@Eeter26 Technically, it would be possible to build these sort of cars with modern materials, engineering and design. The thing is the cost. It would be extremely expensive to build this sort of machines today and no one would want to risk millions to start a racing franchise that no manufacturer would want to be a part of...
This is what IndyCar racing would be today if Robin Miller were in charge.
sounds like a dream
I so wish that notion would be a reality. I just LOVE the 1950's and 1960's roadsters.
If one looks at an Oswego Supermodified, THAT is what a modern front engine roadster/ Indy car should be...
@@watsonroadster3707 couldn't agree more
Not really that far off a USAC silver crown car of today
Moss: the 250F "easy" to race flat-out.
Meanwhile, for those who fear death:
don't race.
I like it, it reminds me of USAC and sprint cars; back when to a casual observer Indy, F1 and sprint cars looked pretty similar except for the tire size.
Looks like a 1960-4 Watson Indy Roadster
When we rolled out with the 70s tires I immediately thought of Mario cart
Made me think of Street Racer, actually.
A study of what stance-nation would've looked like in the 50s.
I've always loved the gold rims. I wish Ferrari would go back to the wheels that they last used in 1997.
They used the gold in 2018
@@thatonenigeriansformula they didn't or did i miss something?
man if the guys who built this thing back in the 50s had modern tires and brakes, you think they wouldnt strap that shit on there and fucking sent it?
Seriously those designers were fucking insane not to mention the drivers
Anything to make it faster
I always assumed that the cars didn't have enough power to use bigger tyres and overcome the extra weight and rolling resistance. Same reason why downforce wasn't viable until the 70s. Could be wrong tho
The most weird thing is american accent talking about F1 cars
Sounds so much better
Hopefully ya’ll understand me ;)
@@GPLaps Perfectly easy to understand, thanks for what you do, you present an interesting show very well ( better than benty : )
Y'all I'm in Mississippi and I think the accent is 'quite proper'.. DMAX
just like Zak Brown
I'd love to have the rest of the f1 cars with these changes in a big mod. That looks fun and not as demanding of us scrubs lol
This is SO high quality content, that I - as a simracer for decades - wonder why I just recently got recommended this awesome channel.
Your channel is really refreshing. Interesting and original content, all the best man happy new year
Dude you have to put these tires on the ‘37 Auto Union and try that
Yeahhhh!!!
no you don"t have you taken leave of your senses? if you go down that road the Bealieu motor museum will look like a kids hot wheels assortment. you"ll be drawing glasses and a moustache on the mona lisa next. how old are you ? ten?
@@captainboggles Have you ever heard of the word "fun"?
@@captainboggles this is a video game not an accurate representation of history. Learn to have fun lol
Now the real question is ...How do we get our hands on this mod?
We need a tutorial how-to video. 😉👍
@@BoltRM Content Manager.
@@UnderwaterAlexJones with content manager you can change the tyre physic but not the graphic or... can you??
@@tibalotte as far as I remember, its been a while since I played AC.
If the car had wider and taller front tires, it would look sooooo good. The massive rear tires surprisingly fit the car and give it a more aggressive stance
The front tyres were kept small to reduce drag, and also reduce oversteer, as even with such large rear tyres the available power exceeded the maximum grip. Making the front tyres larger would make the car slower, both on straights and in corners, as there is no way to tune the front/rear balance with downforce as in modern F1 cars.
Back in the 70's a local store would sell slot cars like these and I would change the tires for AFX slicks and race an oval track with thicker tires. The cars worked much better and you could still drift on couners. We had fun modifing the slot cars between different parts. I could never understand why the cars came with skinny ties. My favorite car was Apple red with white strips like the one your driving. Later on in scouts I made my pinewood Derby car the same shape and color. I enjoyed this video😃 good idea to show this it bought back memories of all the good times racing with slot cars.
That thing looks sick. It looks like what I would build if I wanted to hand build a weird track toy in my garage.
I like the look of the cars in motion in a race. Fat tyres make 50s f1 cars look more aggressive in a good way in my humble opinion.
Cool concept man. I myself wish F1 would eliminate all downforce and create modern safe versions of late 60's F1 cars relying solely on mechanical grip. Would make much better wheel to wheel racing.
You'll have to do something about the modern circuits though if you want that wheel-to-wheel racing.
And you must know that you won't get the aesthetics of those '60s cars with the safety requirements of today.
@Charles Gnarley Old school is a relative term. Looking at it from today, sure. From the perspective of the cars we're talking about, no.
Phillip Island, Watkins Glen, Brands Hatch, and Mosport are products of the '50s and '60s. I don't think too many people think of Jarama or Killarney as standout classics, even if Jarama has been improved with that extension in 1990.
Technically, Anderstorp was a product of the '60s, but most have the perception it came about in the '70s; even I kind of have that feeling, and it's not seen as a great classic in the same vein as a number of those others. Its layout certainly is nothing special, and it's flatter than Le Mans Bugatti. Dijon-Prenois and Mugello are circuits of the '70s. For the period, like the old Estoril, they're quite good, but that still means we're using significant qualifiers here.
In terms of lap speed, none of these circuits are standouts when looking at the '50s or '60s cars as they were. The average speed range for F1 in 1967 was ~80-150 mph across the different circuits; if you omit Monaco, the range is ~100-150 mph. I know, or can expect, all those you suggest (using Glen GP layout) to fall into the lower half of the range (under 115 mph average), and Jarama, Mugello, Killarney and Anderstorp to be under 100 mph average. Even the Nurburgring, King of the technical circuits, had a 1967 Pole Lap average of 105 mph and change. Just to take one of your recommendations as an example, and compare it to its peers. In 1967 Can-Am, Mosport had the 5th fastest max average lap speed of 6 tracks. For the 1969 Can-Am season, it was 8th of 11.
Also, one of the key items with having side-by-side racing, regardless of the cars, is that a section has multiple, viable lines. This is precluded in many areas of newer circuit designs, because of the acute, sharp, almost angular corners we see, and often with more than one such corner in a row. In addition, complex sequences of esses are almost extinct. I mean, they literally destroyed the Esses at Mexico City, at least in terms of them being a single, continuous complex where you have to flow it all the way through. They got rid of a couple of the corners, and turned a couple of the others into much tighter, single-line turns, so you only have to do okay in 2 corners, and then park it on the next, slow apex.
The thing is, these sequences present opportunities where you have to sacrifice one corner for another in order to get the best lap time, but that can leave you open to someone making a move in places. However, modern circuits are very much, proper corner-straight-proper corner, or maybe a couple proper corners in a row, but practically none of that old, sinuous stuff. And even with the example circuits you gave, only Dijon and Phillip Island have this in any particular measure: the back side at Phillip Island (Siberia to MG) and a few corners either side of the turn-offs to Parabolique. I'll add, along with the extension to Parabolique, they tightened Bretelle even if you continued to use the Short Course.
So, I'm still not seeing how we get the desired result, because even then, we're left with a dearth of fast corners and high-speed circuits, likewise when it comes to our complement of circuits more similar to Charade or complexes such as the Esses at Mexico City.
@Charles Gnarley That's fine, but this still aren't the sort of tracks the 1950s and '60s cars ran on by any stretch. So I'm not expecting the same sort of racing from those cars as I would from actual, period circuit, as would only be reasonable.
Don't expect to see an F1 car of less than 600 kg and under 5 meters in length again. A 1957 Maserati 250F or 1967 Lotus 49 were already over 4 meters long. A 1991 Ferrari 643 was 4.4 meters long, and still didn't have today's provision for footbox protection. The added crash structure is going to add dimension and weight to the car, guaranteed. And just to note, the cars in the '80s were wider than the ones we have now, so why didn't that have a more pronounced impact on overtaking, especially on track narrower than today's?
You bringing up Senna, it should be noted that the rule changes after his crash included intentionally making the aero dirtier. And I'm still pretty coninced that the aero issues are overplayed, while the accordion effect goes almost totally unmentioned. If you have cars that accelerate like they have for a few decades now, the physical gap on a long straight after a slow corner is going to blow out by default. This is made worse when the slow corners now are generally even slower than they used to be, and frequently you have more than one in a row, so you're forced to give up time gap to the guy in front. The excessive tire wear from this, from having to give up time every time you don't make a pass, can't be helping things, either.
The problem is, you're going to have very few high-speed corners on tracks today, even the classic ones that still exist relatively untouched. I wouldn't even expect Monza to be a 120-mph circuit with the 3 chicanes and tighter Lesmos. I'd expect Silverstone, Spa, and Suzuka to be roughly 3-minute laps. You don't have have those wild, sinuous tracks like Charade that would make a 3-minute lap worth it anymore. The surroundings don't come right up to the track, giving that sense of speed. Even at a classic track such as Watkins Glen or Road America, watching the external cameras, my 8-10-year old nephew was still like, "Why do they look like they're going so slow?" (Keep in mind, the research says, in order to really get someone hooked on a thing for life, you basically need to hook them in the age 6-10 range.)
"Every corner and every braking area was an overtaking zone." Please take off your rose-tinted glasses. That's not even remotely true, and I probably don't even need to bring up the Nurburgring with that one. Also, back in the day, guys didn't fight as hard for position in many cases because they needed to preserve their cars for the race duration. Given increased reliability and the blocking behavior of today's drivers, the picture will be rather different, even with a modern take on the cars and at a track like Road America.
I've said it before, but these discussion overlook that fact that you're not going to have as interesting tracks to go to. You're not going to have high-speed circuits. The cars aren't going to look the way you or I would fantasize, and this is a fantasy. And with modern technology, they're not going to behave the way we envision that we'd like them to. Those really lurid slides won't happen because of advancements in suspensions and differentials, not to mention, slinging it around erratically is slower than being smooth about it. But that smooth style isn't nearly as obvious or visually dramatic. And going back to the acceleration thing in combination with the accordion effect, if that 1,000-hp McLaren M23 is blowing out the physical gap on the long straight after a hairpin or other fairly slow corner, how's the reduced braking capability possibly going to pull that greater physical distance back in? (That is, a greater physical gap than you'd have with the 485 hp the M23 actually had.)
At the end of the day, the fantasy won't be fulfilled, not in the aesthetics of the cars or tracks, not in the sense of speed of the cars, and not in the perceptual reward, because I cerebrally know these cars aren't the best that could be made, unlike those from the '50s and '60s. Also, the prospect of zero, truly high-speed circuits with such cars is unappealing. And finally, I'll reiterate that I don't see aero as the problem people make it out to be, especially if you don't intentionally make it dirty aero due to rule restrictions. I've been watching a fair bit of Super GT lately, and they put on a show, even with enough downforce for the GT500s to give LMP2s a run for their money.
@charlies gnarly, do you know where that quote came from?
considering modified fornula3 races exists. im surprised no one tried to remade mechanical grip cars, i mean, a formula 4(instead of three for weight and price reason) with no wings or aero and a naked 5 cylinder in the middle looked cool
I’d love to see this philosophy in F1. Manual NA Monster with slicks and no downforce.
Great vids !
dude you need more subscribers. you commentary is legendary. i love your videos. Your '55 GPL series is the closest thing we will have to the real season
Is it just me or does it look like an old sprint car right before they added the wings and rollbars?
And now Jimmer will take it around the Nords.
Oh fuck, please let this happen!
please jimmer!!
For gods sake please stop calling it „Nords“!
It’s a stupid nonsense word that has no meaning in German, it’s just gibberish!
If you want to shorting it correctly (because Nordschleife or Nürburgring are apparently way to hard for some people…) call it „The Ring“.
That’s the official shortname that every race car and motorcycle driver uses.
If you say „Nords“ in real life, everyone will look at you and ask if you’re retarded.
Stop bastardizing language please!
U ye
This was actually done back in the 1970s, IIRC. They put some of the newer tires on some late 50s GP cars and we’re amazed at how close they got to then current lap times.
Pray do tell, where can I find out more about this?
@@Kringlebeast oh, that was in an old Road and Track, I think. Been a loong time.
With the tyres on it it reminds me of those US Offenhauser powered Indy cars of the 60s.
For 50s cars the BRM V16 does it for me. This is what Fangio wrote about it, "I consider it to be, basically, the best Formula One car ever made. All it needs is improvement in certain details. No car has ever given me such a thrill to drive, or a greater sense of absolute mastery. I will stand by it".
looks strange but could be hella interesting too drive. would love too this happen too the auto union pre war car
Oh my God!! But what a piece of work !!
These are really the things that motivate me, since I was a child: how would certain cars of the '50s with wheels and brakes 20 years more advanced have been?
In Formula 1, Road Tourism, SP, etc ...
My most sincere and effusive congratulations !!!
I hope to see more things like this and obviously I'm going to try to do them myself (I'm a Modder on various car and aeronautics simulators).
A big hug, and a very happy 2021 from Argentina !!
I think you could fit spoilers from the early 70s on the Maseratti 250F ... I was trying to imagine it while I was watching it ... And the truth is that the idea fascinates me !!!
Awesome experiment. I agree, the car looks great with the modifications, almost like a sprint car/super modified.
Would be interesting to see what the '37 Auto Union would feel like with this "treatment". It's already closer to modern times with that rear mounted engine 🤔
just plain no... that '37 auto union has the front and back axle/suspension design of a freaking vw beatle. You are basically saying nealry 20 years of automotive development a one world war just went by with no gains performance wise?!
There's a very important fact there that a lot of people don't realise. Tyres determine the limit of braking performance, not brakes. If you can lock up the brakes, the tyres are the limiting factor.
This. Brakes only determine heat capacity, tires are the things actually touching the ground haha
You're really coming into your own as a content creator my friend. Great stuff. I'm sure you have 100k+ subs in your future man.
For some reason as cursed as this mod is in terms of changing the bicycle tires to much grippier slick tires from the '70s, quite drastically changed how the 250F performs on the braking and cornering aspect. It's unrealistic as hell but extremely fun to watch lol
This looks fun, and looks like the type of grip that lets that masseratti engine and chassis fulfil its potential.
The thing looks like a super modified and a non-winged sprint car had a baby. I love it
You need to put a download link in the description so we can drive your creations.
Damn this is brutal! It looks just so right and natural weirdly, we need a whole fantasy mod like this!
I agree but they should've done this back in the day tho
@@blueviper3727 ikr, its fascinating to me, how long it took them to think of something so simple: wider tire = more grip...
@@npanic628 Couldn't agree more
@@npanic628 I don't think it took them that long to have the idea. However, it doesn't matter if the tire/materials technology doesn't exist to make the idea possible to execute in practice.
If the rubber compound is too hard, you'll still spin them up, and with the brakes of the day, you can't really slow down much better anyway. Not to mention, wider tires means more drag.
@@Villoresi true, id imagine its because of drag. Since the 30s GP cars were made with only 1 thing in mind, making it as slippery through the air as possible, and with most race tracks at the time having very few slow or flowing corners the need for grip was lesser than the need for aerodynamic efficiency
I love the look of a 50s f1 car with those wheels. Great concept
This looks cool dude! Kinda looks like a stretched Sprint car minus its wing.... ;) Also,great work mate love it
Interesting! Same as with other experiments you made. Keep on doing them please! I keep hoping you can make suck mods available one day...
It's also funny to see how the AIs keep up with these experimental cars you create... an indirect challenge to Kunos development team!
Came here after searching for some interesting Assetto Corsa content. Old GP isn’t my favorite, however you make it interesting, subscribed!
70s USAC Sprint Cars! Gorgeous.
(I'd love to know how easy it is to chop models like this.. hmm)
This should definately be featured on an online server.
I always love online races with old F1 cars, but they are often too demanding to drive to have good racing. This however would be a perfect middle ground!
that looks like a helluva lot of fun.... but i fully understand and share your ambivalence about that beautifully hybrid monstrosity
I am old F1 purist, but I love that combination, and the sound is awesome!!!
Imagine a F1 race, any era, including modern....oh and here are your 1970's tyres and 1970's brakes .....good luck.
I'd pay money to see that.
Yes, the Acque Minerale at the original Imola, which this basically is, is the best version of that double-right, though even the configuration it's in today is so much better than that awful chicane they had there for 1980-94.
You're preaching to the choir about the beauty of the Maserati 250F. A number of the F1 cars from that period are real stunners.
Sounds like variations on the "Le Mans" movie soundtrack there at the end.
You made it look like Peter Perfect's Turbo Terrific from Wacky Races
I think you've got the tyre ratio from a mid engine car, but this is front/mid engine, meaning more weight on the front with small tyres will have more understeer/front brake lockups. Great videos though :) I've been watching your stuff for a few weeks now, and wish that you did collab stuff, because I'd raise my hand haha
at about 3:08; that's a late sixties northeast super (I know it's not, but old indy cars with slicks were like this and running around with scratch-built super-modifieds). These things were still around at various tracks in New England, at least, until the late seventies. I loved 'em.
Fantastic!, This virtual mod to an older car is a very common practice that happens in the real world of cars. An example is people take 150s-60s cars and upgrade all sorts of components! It makes for exciting cars and keeping the older look of the cars going... Anyway, great job! and experiment!
2:55 Dude! That car looks AwEsOmE!
Haha great fun. You could always give us a download link hint hint. Thanks for all the videos and happy new year.
this could have its own racing series
I love the look, the grip is crazy. Lets see the v12 w/ some other tracks lol
This is the Pistachio icecream of SimRacing. You WTF look at him at first but it tastes fantastic once you try it.
I just realised how safer Tamburello were without run-offs: much lower angle of impact. Oval-type concrete barrier, as at original Österreichring curves, may prevent the grave consequences of those horrific crashes that had happened there.
Hey GP! Love your commentary! I give it a shot in my TH-cam videos, but yours's is spot on! Thanks ! DMAX
Do you know what the more i watch this video the more right the big slick shod Maserati looks. Great idea and great video.
F1 car from the 50s with wider wheels?
Man those tires are so phat.
The few roadsters that ran in the 1965 Indy 500 were fitted with wider tires, just like the rear engined cars. It was an odd sight indeed.
I have to say, these look really fun to drive. Would love to see how it translates into reality with enough simulation testing and engineering put into it. These should definitely be an option for online racing at the very least. Really enjoyed the aggressive look!
Very Nice. An old circuit, that of Imola until the 1970s, without the many chicanes that exist today. Those who ran by car knew the risks they ran. Very realistic. In Imola, which is my home circuit (I live in Bologna), I raced there in the 1970s, when they started building chicanes. An objection to the graphic realization of the video: the Tamburello curve was narrower and more dangerous. The time was kept by those who made it in full. Greetings.
Sebastian Vettel would complain that the windscreen gave him motion sickness.
Joking aside, a modern iteration of this might give a revitalization to F1. No wings, no ground effect; just a strong body (with radical modifications to maintain adequate safety), fat tyres, a forward mounted engine, and driver talented and brave enough to drive it.
Auto Union type C with these tires 😅
yes that needs to happen
Oh god yes, and maybe tyre+brake combo from same car since these were way overpowered
Way cool, people are saying "like a midget or sprint car but stretched". That would be USAC "Champ" car. I've thought of this concept tires/brakes but with that much traction I'd guess the suspension and chassis would wind up like a spring. This chassis was good for it's day but those cars were drift cars really. Now with this added massive traction the load goes into the chassis.
This is so blasphemous, and I love it!
The car engine sounds*
Video subtitles: Music
I think he's right
It's always quality content. From the concepts, to the execution, and all the little things like always having background music to fit the theme (I'd like to dig through your record collection!)
That’s a lotta compressor on the voice Lol
Super interesting video man! I personally like the way it looks. Then again, I’ve always been partial to late 60s early 70s F1 design.
I swear to god, if one day someone builds a car like this, I buy it instantly =)
Thanks I kinda wondered what those cars would have been like with newer tech.. Thanks quite the experiment. .
Died laughing seeing that car kill itself in the mirror.
Same it was hilarious
I ain't gonna lie but the old f1 cars looks sick with this big slick tires
1:04 That is ... absolutely beautiful.
Supermodified fan here...Interesting look...I was going to say the Lancia looks a bit like a Watson roadster, if they were driven by much of the field in USAC in around 1969...Maybe like Herk's Mallard in '68???...There's an idea....INDY ROADSTERS AT MONZA!!!! Race of Two Worlds...
She's very kool...luv to see a Vanwall with this kit.💨
This would make a good series, customising cars, doing a race, and providing the files for the customised car/track in the description.
Smart, fun, extremely well driven and narrated. Thanks.
12:08 was very 1950's racing type of accident.
Great video concept! Would love to see more era mix and matching! Imagine a whole Assetto Corsa series with these!
My dude, you keep creating these amazing hybrids that I wish I could drive in my game! Awesome stuff, thanks for uploading and I hope you have a great new year.
It's crazy to see how much detail games like assetto corsa have put into their game in the name of sim racing. @ 1:27 you can even see the tyre slip and how the tyre walls flex as they still have contact patch where your car was.
After watching a lot of your videos now, I kinda wanna see an IRL or Iracing series that is "modified" retro cars. Or a "Formula Retro" series where it's modernized racing on older racing cars. Like older race cars with modern tech in them.
That was cool. The 1950s cars are beautiful but they were nice to see with 1970s upgrades.
If I had a lawn mower that looked like I'd be mowing every lawn in the neighbourhood every day ;)
Last going off a yr ago or so, maybe a bit more (before PC bricked) - I would rotary swap every car (basically) I had an inkling to drive. My favorite was putting a 13b in an alpine A110 and doing the simtraxx swiss alps, good laughs
Very interresting actually, the thing is with the old tyres you would have oversteer and progressively by increasing slip angle you would have understeer (that's why it was easier to handle because it wouldn't spin uncontrollably). However with the new tyres the inherent understeer was noticeable in all aspects and I think this is because the small front tyres would heat up much more and faster than the rears hence giving up grip. I don't see a viable solution through any sort of setup to fix this. If you distribute the weight and brake bias rearwards would alleviate the temperatures a bit but would cause understeer though other means, would overall increase grip but make the car harder to predict. The only thing I can think of is to lower the tyres pressures in the rear as much as possible and increase the front. Still it wouldn't fix the problem and would cause other issues, it will be a vicious cycle. The way the car and tyres are built the only thing that would help is to add a humongous amount of downforce in the front... and then you got a 70's F1 car
You need to send it to Jimmer Wanglebrock, ASAP! I think he would have a hoot chucking this around the Nordschleife...
I present to you..
The Italian Modified. These look so fun
What is amazing about the standard 250F is the straight line speed with those skinny tyres, would be awesome to see them on a modern F1 car and with no aero
not only add grip, but if u want add some slipstream values at ur mod cause in real life big wheels augments the drag so the slipstream effect is stronger.
I really like how this car looks, only the front tires are a bit too small for my taste
"Both proud and disgusted" lol
you should read Alf Francis, Racing Mechanic - he fitted Girling disk brakes to Stirling Moss's 250 in 1957.
Like it.Looks like a dirt track sprint car.
Abomination? That car sir, is completely brilliant.
Gp Laps, please do another one with said’70’s F1 tires, but add the high aerofoil & front wings, on the front engined GP cars.. fascinating 🖖🏻
Frighin’ love this! Awesome work! Would love to see it with the tires from the ‘91 MP4-6 era.
Now that is a beautiful monstrosity.
Thanks Algorithm for providing this treat to my eyes and ears.
It looks like a 50's or 60's dirt sprint car. Something AJ Foyt might drive
Not gonna lie, this looks super cool. Kinda dieselpunk