Ordering a Cheap PCB + Assembly in China. Is it worth it?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2021
- What is your experience with a cheap assembly service? I am curious, maybe I just had a bad luck with this specific board? Leave your comment ...
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Update: BUTTON - yes, this was my mistake. LED - the component mark doesn't show Pin 1 location, it says R- (and the RED pin is pin number 2). BAD soldering - the accelerometer was badly soldered also on the next board which I tested (when I removed the chip, two of its pins were completely without solder). Thank you everyone for leaving so many feedbacks with your own experience. PS: Everyone makes mistakes.
I just received my order for 275 pcb's spread across 3 designs. Each included mostly extended parts such as digital isolators and adc's. I also had the through hole components soldered by jlcpcb. 4920 solder joints by hand for 600 jst connectors. Every board works 100% and the hand soldering quality is satisfactory. Used kicad. Definitely recommend them
The thing most people don't realise is that a few boards will be assembled by hand, from the stenciling to the component placement, the reflow may even be by a hot air gun. Essentially you will get something little better than you could achieve at home with some time and a bit of kit, possibly better if done yourself as it would be your design and you would have a better understanding of it regarding correct component placement etc. A larger order of several hundred boards will be automated, with checks on the first few through to ensure parts are placed correctly and the solder has reflowed okay etc, so the results are going to be much better.
how much money did it cost you? to know a little how much they charge...
The 'basic' components in their library, like resistors and capacitors are basically free, and hard to get wrong, so it is well worth having them put on all the small stuff. 'Basic' components are pre-loaded on their machines and are used all the time, so they will very likely be correct. 'Extended' components are not part of their production line, and are loaded into their machines manually, so they are not as proven and more likely to have an error. So go hybrid, let them do the 'basic' components and you do the 'extended' components, or at least triple check the extended component footprint and rotation before ordering.
Hi, i just asked this on the EasyEDA forum. How exactly do i go the hybrid way? I want them to assemble the basic parts and one of smaller extended parts. How do i inform them, which parts i want them to assemble and which parts i want them to include in the package, so i can solder them manually?
Thank you in advance :)
@@2goXD You can de-select the components you don't want to be assembled during the ordering process (Robert also mentions this in his video).
I order assembly of all the cheap 0402 resistors and LEDs for prototype boards and place more rare parts myself. Works fine! Huge time-saver for prototypes.
Some chips are nearly impossible to mount without a stencil. If you populate part of your board, aren’t you stuck using an iron or blobbing on paste yourself?
@@samihawasli7408 Yeah, you have pretty much figured out my hobbyist ways
HI, what is your process of ordering parts? Can JLC deliver them or you order them separately? If separetely where?
@@KostiantynKostin Right, so my original post was more than a year ago. Since then, I started working with electronics professionally and soldering things by hand is the last-resort thing, usually left for really unique components, patch jobs or debugging. Ordering automated assembly is really cheap compared to the hourly cost of manual labor.
And about those "rare" components, I try to design things so that everything could be assembled in the factory, even if this means using stranger parts from JLCPCB catalogue. Unique part examples I can think of are something like a compact power supply module or a pin header with extra-long pins - both easy to solder and gone from the latest designs.
@@OrbitalCookie Got it. I'm new to electronics, but I have a project that I want to finish and planning to develop a board in the upcoming months based on STM32F4 chip to potentially make as many devices as I need. I tried soldering SMD components by hand and investigated assebly with solder mask and reflow hot plate. I'll investigete automated assembly further if it is economically viable for me. Anyway thanks for sharing and good luck with your work.
I love JLCPCB and their assembly service saved me days worth of microscope work on a recent 15 board run. It was a large 200mm 4 layer board and they did an almost perfect job with over 120 passives.
You do have to pay very close attention to the DFM analysis. I missed that they swapped a cap and resistor but they're constantly improving and their service is so quick and pain-free.
I've done 100s of boards now with JLC from KiCad and it's just so damn easy, cheap and quick. Got my first order in to PCBWay for their assembly service and so far it's been anything but easy. We'll see how that turns out...
hello, how have been PCBWay's service for you until this day?
@@fase144 My own $0.02 since I started the process of having a board produced and assembled at PCBWay: the production file analysis and BOM selection is done by sending Excel files back and forth by e-mail which was annoying, but at least didn't take too long. The kicker was that the quotation page showed a $33 shipping charge based on the quoted final weight and a 3-4 day turn-around time for PCB + assembly. After all of the back-and-forth with the production files and the BOM, once I saw the final total before payment, the shipping was $55 and the turn-around time was 3-5 weeks. When I asked them about this, they pretended to not understand what I meant, saying only that "shipping is based on weight" and "assembly time is always 3-5 weeks". Their pricing model for assembly is also very opaque, since after I had submitted my first design I went back to the quotation page and the same design now had a 50 unit minimum for assembly instead of what it had been originally (5, I think).
In frustration I switched to JCLPCB and all of the production file and BOM selection was right on their website, the final total and turn-around time (3 days) was exactly what it said on their quote page. Every choice that changed the price on the quotation page (surface finish, etc) and BOM selection (extended part surcharge, part attrition, etc) was line-itemized, most with a help popup offering further explanation. This was my first PCB design and first assembly order and I felt like I understand what was going on the entire time. I had a similar problem with my parts not aligning like Robert did but it was automatically corrected. My design was too simple to actually test the quality of the assembly, though.
Hello Robert, thank you very much for taking your time and money to make this video. I have used JLCPCB many times but only for bare PCB's and Stencils to do the placing of the components myself, and now I am glad that I did so. I am currently working on a new product to crowd fund and was considering to have the boards assembled, but seeing this, which might not be always as bad as in your case, I will look elsewhere or finally finish my PNP machine and do the assembly work with it instead of doing it by hand. Regards, Hayri.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Nice video... thanks for your contribution & effort!
I've done a lot of PCBs with assembly work done at JLC, and never had a problem.
this is very rare in my experience.
how much money did it cost you? to know a little how much they charge...
@@muskku It depends on the size, it can be as little as $5 and up to $50. Small (100x100mm) double sided boards are very cheap.
Great Video thank you. Learned even more reading the comments.
Interesting video. I've not used the assembly service, but have used JLC for quite a few big 4-layer 220mm square boards, and they've all been fine & amazing value for money.
The SMT assembly service is great, I have used it several times :)
Issues are --
SMT assembly not available on boards paneled by V score :(
Limited to the parts that JLCPCB stock
Looking up parts is buggy with many parts not listed unless you go directly to the JLCPCB SMT parts library ( try finding an 0805 red LED in the Basic range).
There are some strange omissions from the Basic Parts range ( such as no 0805 100nf cap).
Just because a part was in stock last time you ordered does not mean that it will still be a stock item (example FE 1.1s usb hub chip).
SMT assembly only available on green or black pcb's.
Assembly is now available for other colors too.
great video - finally nice to see an honest take on jlcpcb assembly - thanks
First of all, Thanks Robert..!! I believe that a manufacturing service tune-up is always necessary and you always have to be careful with the first batch. I had bad experiences even with recognized suppliers.
Isn't your switch the wrong way around on your schematic?
I agree, it is clear from the symbol that pin 1 and 3 are connected together (and pin 2 with pin 4).
Yeah I think this time Robert hasn't paid enough attention...
You are right! :D My mistake .... I never draw button this way and I automatically connected it as I always do it :)
@@RobertFeranec Sadly, I've been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. :)
I was thinking the same. Well, these things happen when designing boards. Doing an 8 or 10 layer board, just one tiny mistake and boom! Nothing works and it’s a troubleshooting nightmare. So much can go wrong so easily.
Really enjoyed seeing your perspective of more hobbyist services. :)
Great and honest review. Thank you.
You are being very generous Robert.
Hi Robert! Thank you for your videos! As for JLCPCB, I use them mainly for PCBs only, and not using their assembly services, as it available only for one PCB side and secondary I did had many problems like you mentioned here, so I prefer to manually solder them for my prototypes.
Thank you Robert. I haven't used JLC yet. I was going to comment that your switch schematic appears to be shorted, but I see someone already noticed that. I have a couple of small projects that I'm playing with, so I'm looking at options, just haven't made my mind up yet. Thanks for pointing out things to be aware of and to be careful, careful, careful.
Hi Robert, thanks for your video post. Your project clearly demonstrates two of the main sources of errors - yourself and the service provider. Back in the 1970’s- early 1990’s one of my duties was to make, design and assemble commericlal prototypes. Without the aid of CAD I expected infant errors. Knowing this, the assembly techniques used were manual and incremental with plenty of testing along the way. Each encountered issue was logged so that subsequent iterations ensured that the same issues did not recur. In later years when PCB CAD was used I deliberately did not use predefined library components because I never found any to be satisfactory. The first module of any PCB CAD package that I used would be its PCB land and schematic symbol editors ensuring that these vital foundations are sound. The second aspect would be to determine the best method of placing test points and additional PCB pads. Once all of the desired components were created then the schematic capture could commence.
I use this service twise to assemble one board. And I get two absolute different device. First one was very bad. 5 board from 20 can start out of box. Other 15 have different soldering issue. Next time I assemble same 30 boards I got perfect result. All 30 boards start out of box. I was very hapy )))
I'll take a different view. Robert was quite resourceful in the way that he addressed the manufacturing flaws. Such options are not always available. If one of his ICs was not rotated properly, he very well might not have been able to fix it. Four evenings of my time is not worthless, and the components on my boards can be expensive, so having to discard more than a few quickly overcomes any savings from using an unreliable service. I'll invest my evenings in perfecting my designs and pay a premium for a reliable PCBA service. In the end, I expect this to be more economical. Thank you, Robert, for this very honest video :-)
That’s why for leds and diodes I Mark anode cathode on silkscreen near footprint so that they pick it up during pre assembly files checking
It was interesting to see your experience. I've used JLC's PCBA service numerous times for prototype boards. I usually get longer runs done by other services like PCBWay (I have no affiliation with either of these, by the way - I've just used them). It's true that you do have to carefully check rotation of parts - I use Eagle to design, and then a script to convert the production files to the format JLC/PCBWay use. I also make sure to use + and - to mark the anode and cathode of LEDs/diodes, and always mark pin 1 on other parts, as they will then correct errors if they notice. I have also tried EasyEDA, and noticed some problems with it - for example, the gerber output is (or was) dependent on the current view of the board. So if you have defined ground planes, but forgot to fill them, the gerber output will omit them. I had this problem with a design.
Generally I've found the soldering to be fine - I've found it's worth sometimes changing a design to use the "standard parts", rather than "extended parts" from their supply as it can make a big difference in price for small runs. The latest boards I've ordered are pretty large (320 x 320mm) and they have turned out fine with several hundred parts loaded.
I've noticed they have some parts that are ALWAYS out of stock, which is annoying - but I think it's a result of automation on their end. I often have designs where I reflow some parts myself as they don't stock them. Still much faster than loading a whole board, especially with 0402 parts. They will soon be supporting double-sided PCBA too, which will be really useful for me!
Anyway that's my experience :)
Yes, i would love to see more about that lightsaber control circuit you designed here and want to see it working... We did lots of boards with PCBWay and they were good, but it's worth comparing prices if you source yourself you might be able to produce locally if you factor in all costs.
About 20% of the boards I've had assembled at JLC have had at least one issue. Recently, a TVS diode array was rotated 90 degrees - even after we agreed on the revised placement - exactly the same as your experience. However, they do provide an excellent service, in my opinion, as they allow me to produce very small boards with rather small components - without the hassle and inevitable placement mistakes _I would make_ myself. ;)
For boards I really care about, I send them to Screaming Circuits in Oregon, USA. Even so, with a top-tier assembler, I've seen at least one assembly error from them. I think it might just be a natural, human factors part of the assembly process.
When ordering boards for assembly, I use either KiCad or Altium Designer. Even for a pro like you, I'm truly impressed that you were able to learn the EDA tool and get the job done (with only one, small mistake😉) in just an hour!
On the PCB side, I've been totally satisfied with JLC's service. HASL surface finish is always excellent and TH are always drilled dead-center, unlike some other low-cost board houses that I've used in the past. Naturally, ENIG is even better.
Used JLCPCB for my first ever PCB, it was a simple 2 layer board with components on both sides. The JLCPCB manufactured the boards and assembled, them and they work!
Last November I also had a bad experience.
First I made a batch of 50 units for testing, it arrived well and works well.
After I placed an order for 1000 PCBs assembly.
When it arrived I checked that they had not soldered the smd leds. I went to review and the cause was because when I made the purchase I bought the right amount, I bought only 3000 leds. And for assembly were necessary 3004 leds.
Summary: the production of the 1000 units went wrong because 4 LEDs were missing from the reel.
I had to manually solder the 3000 leds so as not to lose production.
I would have expected someone from the JLCPCB to have warned. No one informed and currently I still have 3000 leds in stock at their warehouse.
Missing JLCPCB assistance in assembly service.
Dear Cesar, would you like to try our one-stop pcba service? we have 13 years experience in pcb+components sourcing+pcba service,
User error.
Yeah, I'd call this a very successful small-batch prototyping run. Very successful being I got the all the knowledge of your experience without it costing me anything but 25 minutes of my time watching your video.
I've used JLC for boards for years now and i'm very happy with their bare PCBs. They have really good support and i've never had a problem with it or the boards. I've never had a chance to use their assembly service, so i dont know how good that is.
I've used their SMT service once for an analog design, the board was a 4 layer with impedance control. I haven't faced any problem you've mentioned, maybe it was just bad luck :) Currently I'm waiting for the second SMT assembly this week, I'll edit my comment if anything goes wrong
Hi Robert. I used JLCPCB for a few boards this month and they returned pretty good results. I read that they were having teething issues with their earlier PnP service when it first came out. Trying to use "Basic" parts will simplify things by reducing the chance of human error, as well as speed up board build time. It would be interesting to try them again sometime; maybe you have and I haven't seen the video yet. :) Thanks... Clark
Thanks for a GREAT Video that will be high in the recommended videos for my students. V E R Y Usefull!
PS: Some 15 years ago we added a rule: "Always connect 4 pins tactile buttons diagonally". And some students learned it the hard way too.
Hi Robert. It's nice to see you trying out JLCPCB services.
It looks like you were really unlucky here! I use JLC regularly for manufacturing prototype orders because of the quick turnaround time (PCB designed from KiKad or Altium) and have never faced grave issues like cold solder or wrong rotation.
One thing you must ensure is that your component rotation are proper. I see that even in the confirmation email the LED rotation was wrong. So if it was not corrected, the wrong rotation was done during assembly (since it's automatic machine using pick and place data, the machine does it as per data provided).
I have never used them for soldering through hole components, so the USB issue was quite a surprise!
Since the services are so cheap, they do not do AOI I suppose and hence cold solder was not rectified. But this has luckily never happened to me.
Like you said, for quick prototypes to test if your idea works, it's a really good service. Considering that you would spend 3x the amount with local vendors and atleast 2 to 3x the time.
Thank you Abhay PS: I just answered about the LED in CPZeroDue's comment. This could maybe fell into category of misunderstanding (for some reason they marked the pin in the LED component as R- which I interpreted as the RED pin and that would be correct - however, that is pin 2 in datasheet).
May be you are lucky, for me there bad library and wrong rotation costed me a ton. Needed for mesh n/w so ordered 20 pieces, learned a hard lesson never use there assembly services for more than standard/basic components, and not order more than 5pcs in one shot of a single PCB. Also another problem with them, is any confusion they cancel the order and ask to recreate, that may not be an issue for others, but for me unnecessary credit card charges happens 2 way plus project delays, instead of sending email and clarifying.
I used JLCPCB for my graduation project and it worked for me. But u have to rotate the parts yourself by editing the Excel file and make sure to ask the support if those warnings u had are solvable for PCBA, they will answer your questions live and pretty fast btw.
I have been waiting for this unpaid review for a very very long time. Thank you for that! It would be good to know about the statistics of all the boards. How many of them had the same soldering problem as with the acceleration IC? Were all the buttons and LEDs rotated the same way on the other boards, or did they messed up only that one board?
Thank you Andrew. I will check them when my USBs will arrive. I am also curious. PS: All the LEDs are rotated the wrong way, I checked that.
I am actually using jlc assmbly for many small batches, never had any problem by them. I did made some mistakes like assmbling 3M resistor instead of 3 ohms, but these were all my mistaks. Given the limitaion of selected parts and not able to assmble non smt or connectors, I find the service very good.
Perfect Answer 👍👍
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I did wanted to try some designs that have BGAs on them but of course it's not that easy to make them at home
Aaaand with this, I will clearly not gonna try them in the near future :D
Great review...
I have a board with many LEDs that I have had manufactured more than one with PCBWay PCBA. It wasn't super cheap, but they've always sent pictures in advance and the boards have been fine. The JLCPCB PCBA offering looked too good to be true, so I decided to give it a whirl on the same board. One of the parts, they said they could not get (Attiny84A), which annoyed me, since they are associated with LCSC and LCSC showed the part in stock. They also will only do one side, and my design has a battery holder on the back. All that said, the boards came back, and when I added the controller and battery holder, they worked fine. For prototypes, I was pleased. The smallest components I had were 0402 resistor arrays.
I did a lot of assembly with hundreds of different components using JLCPCB and had no issues at all. It's really good service which has a great support. You just always have to double check the pinouts in the datasheets and placement on the board right after you upload the files to JLCPCB. The only disadvantage is that they don't have a lot of parts in their library so you have to order and solder them on your own.
Similar experience here.
It is worth it, price and time wise, to have prototypes made this way.
Also they often cancel the order because components aren't on stock.
I recommend them for simple 2 layer prototypes.
Prepare to do some rework and have an osiloscope handy.
This is why i manifacture all my prototype designs at home. I had similar problems with component availabilities and incorrect part numbering in the EDA libraries. At least the bare PCBs are excellent value for the price. I guess it will still take some time for them to improve the assembly process. Until then, buy a cheap mircroscope, good tweezers, a hot air station or even build a small DIY reflow oven out of an old toaster oven. This drastically reduces time and frustration used for debugging.
Great video! If it is possible, you can try the PCBWay assembly service to compare the quality.
My experience with JLC is with PCB manufacturing only. They have screwed up on numerous occasions, claimed they can't build boards that they built a month prior etc. On boards where I have verified their production files they still manage to screw up. Then when you file a complaint you get a lousy coupon that barely covers the cost of a fraction of the PCBs, let alone shipping and import taxes / fees. For extremely simple boards that aren't too complex I might still use them in the future but there's no way in hell I'm trusting them to do any sort of PCBA.
Mr Robert, Thank for you video. Never trust 100% in a footprint library always check and check. I learned that in your videos 😅. I'm being using jlcpc for prototype some ideas and in my case it was a good service for a good price. Nothing it's perfect. I don't like to have to use only their components but at the end it's a very good service for prototype and proof some ideas. It would be great to have had this kind of service 10 years ago(in my case) when I was an student
Wow those are a lot of problems with one board. I have order several boards with much more complicated layout, for sure didn't get as many problems.
Thanks for the review
I plan always 2 versions, one where I solder the most self, have some template footprints in bigger sizes and then the final board, so the parts, problems are known for the 2nd step. Boards like yours I solder the 1st prototype with hot air.
Yes about designing this board
Thank you 🙂.
Had two 2-layer boards assembled by them recently, each with close to 600 LEDs (0402), 16 QFN-44s, plus about 100 passives. The first board worked out-of-the-box, *except* for 3 LEDs which wouldn't light up. I placed the board under the microscope and saw that those 3 were placed in the wrong orientation. I don't have the slightest clue how that would happen, given that all the other LEDs of the same type were placed correctly. Interestingly, I had pretty much the same conversation about LED orientation right after placing the order, and also after filing a complaint about the misplaced LEDs, the response was very similar. With a bit of patience, I managed to rotate the LEDs into place and now it's working flawlessly. Wouldn't hesitate to use their assembly service again for prototypes, although for boards with just a few dozen components, I prefer to do the assembly myself.
I have been through the same situation, but the difference is my board was having around 200-250 components..I can't tell how much brainstorming I was doing on that..Finally made that work and didn't go for the same manufacturer again... But yes we can produce small boards with these services as it costs very less..
I think the USB connector wasn't placed because it contains these through-hole pins. JLC cannot assemble through-hole as of now, you gotta be careful with that.
It's also a good idea to preview the component placement and manually fix any rotation errors in your position file before ordering as well as marking pin 1 explicitely on the silk screen.
I haven't had any issues with the soldering itself so far, even for very tiny components like 0402x4 resistor packs.
So yea, the process isn't as automatic as it could be but if you are careful you will get good results.
I used their service for the very first time recently and had a similar experience to yours. My PCB had a USB C connector (which in the design process I had to change it twice to make sure it is available in their library and they will assemble it) which was not fitted and was not placed inside the package. In my case the connector was going to be used for comms with the PC. So I had to cut one end of an existing USB cable and solder the wires directly to be able to do anything with the boards I received. The annoying thing is that you can see the pads of connector has solder on them. So that means they actually created the stencils with plans to assemble the connectors. For whatever reason they did not assemble them, they did not bother getting contacting about the issue. This is very unprofessional. They gave me similar response saying they are not component supplier but a PCB manufacturer so they cannot ship the connectors I've already paid for but can only offer discounts. I am having difficulties accepting this answer. If you go into LCSC website you can see that JLCPCB is listed as "family site". At least they should ship them from LCSC. I don't like to be asked for paying again for the connectors and the shipment while it is them who made the mistake and not bothered to get into contact.
Great video, though I'd agree with most of the commenters and say that you've been somewhat unlucky. I've used their assembly service once before and it was perfectly fine. I only moved to other suppliers as I needed more freedom in component choice and getting both sides assembled. As it happens, I have just had one more board assembled by JLC but it won't come in till next week so I can't yet make any comments about it.
Hi. I use this service for prototype pcb. But without assembling. Over 100 projects. 2 or 4 layer. Some quite big and complex. All ok! No any problems. Build time is 1 day for 2 layers and 3 days for 4 layer.
I been using PCB Cart recently and have had no problems. I sent them a really complicated board as a test and they all came back working.
I ordered 500 boards from itead with assemble and all was perfect. I also ordered 5 boards from different project and assembly cost to me about 100$ per board for assemble. So I think for small bunch it's easy to assemble by yourself. And also a little advise, check all part numbers in your bom excel document, all process going automatically, so in most cases they not check links to seller(mouser, digikey), so when I ordered other bunch of boards they send to me picture of board and connector that actually bigger that my board with question "How to solder it?", in my case, I am lucky it's cheap connector so they agree to solve this problem without any fees. I also have bad experience compare to chines with local services, they actually change entire my bom list without my permission. So if your are living in post USSR country(like Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine ...), I think it's good to make additional agreement about penalties for changes in your board without your permission.
I also had problems with JLCPCB assembly. I thought that I order only basic parts assembly like capacitors and resistors, and more exotic components like step-down IC I will solder myself. I have spent few hours trying to debug why my step-down doesn't work, i was triple checking my design, resoldering step-down IC like 10 times, just to find out that i was having bad solder on one critical capacitor that my IC required to operate. After fixing soldering on this capacitor the well known magic happend and it worked.
Thank you Robert, for this usefull and informative video. I wanted you to make a video on assembling.The only thing here i don't like that we have to use EasyEda, not Altium. Second, it is difficult to find components like ISL6236A in their library. I think this assembling is good idea for basic components.
So far I haven't had any complaints about JLC. I'm ordering PCBs from them for years now, but I've used their assembly service only three times and in one instance I had to reflow a QFN chip, but I think it was my fault, because I accidentally messed up the solder mask expansion.
It's probably always a good idea to give the boards a thorough inspection under the microscope before start working with them.
I think you were a little bit unlucky in this case. I ordered 10 samples of a relatively large board with 700 passive components (on the back side only of course) most of them 0603 resistors and caps, there were only 2 or 3 issues in all 10 boards.
You just had bad luck. I do a lot of assembly with JLCPCB and it never went wrong.
Same for me, no email, no missing components, no bad soldering...
It always takes 3 try's, boards, versions of components, etc. until all is right. I never got it all working at first time. But because JLCPCB is so cheap and fast, it is worth it to start. Same you said...
I've had fairly good luck with their PCBA service but I prefer ordering a stencil and placing components myself. One other good thing about their service is using the component ID from LCSC which is a bit cheaper for most components than Mouser/DigiKey.
One annoying aspect of their PCBA service is errors result in a coupon for future orders and not a refund.
Oh and I have no idea what solder they use but it can be a pain to rework the PCBs, especially if you need to remove/swap parts with fine pitched legs.
Never tried the assembly service, but the boards I have ordered from JLCPCB have been fine. Because of shipping time and cost to Norway I now order from aisler.net. They accept Kicad files directly and you can also order parts.
Used JLC for many projects. One of my orders was for 120 boards and of out those boards only 3 boards had bad soldering on MCU. Quick rework to the chip and problem solved. It's is unfortunate but the cost savings for these little projects make it worth it for me.
Ive been thinking about using this for my boards which contain BGA.
I own a reflow oven but no pick and place, was going to try placing by hand but not sure about it.
Cant even get the chips though so it will be a while.
I've also used the JLCPCB service for years, but never the assembly one, happily I've yet to have a bad board.
Sadly I don't have any experience in schematic design and my boards are very simple. So I draw them in Design Spark's PCB layout software yet I would love to take this further, becasue I'm now over 70 and soldering SMD components is becoming a chore.
I only use resistors and LEDs, mainly for backlighting in products like gauges, so if you can suggest a tutorial for such projects I would be grateful.
Very interesting video by the way, and your "simple board" looks rather complicated to me... :-)
We have our boards made there now, the problem is now not all the boards fit the test jig, the holes are not consistent, the pins on the test jig don't hit the mark on all boards.
The assembly service of JLCPCB is in my opinion very good, indeed there is a lot of work from my side before I upload all the files (specially the BOM and CPL). But once it is correct, everything is fine. Checking the placement (and maybe changing the CPL file again) of the parts is very important before you order your board. JLCPCB is also asking, if there are problems with the placement (in my case a lot of digital gates) to be sure that every thing is o.k.
18:20 here you see that pushing the button makes no sense because it connects pin 1 to pin 2 which is equal to connecting GND to GND , and pin 3 and 4 are connected always(!) to GND independently of the button state. So this is not a library-error, but a user-error.
21:47 to 22.00 --> the problem started on the schematic ;-)
Anway, thank you for your review --> thumbs up :-)
Oh yes you are right. So I guess the only non user error was the bad soldering. About to send my first order for assembled boards soon so hoping they will be ok.
Isn't the LED on your schematic rotated clockwise 90 deg as installed? It looks like the board pin1 is to the left of the led pin1? Also, woudn't the holes need to be swapped 180deg on the USB connector for it to be soldered? Sorry if I am missing something here from the brief look. In my experience when dealing with China mfg, everything needs to be 100% as the language barrier along with QC, something will get lost or done wrong. I always check, 3x before submitting anything for theses reasons.
I've used that service to make PCBs and they came back good quality, I hadn't opted for assembly, so I might go for passive simple component assembly if I use them again and hand solder nay more complex pieces likes ICs myself. Hopefully they will improve their quality.
HI, what is your process of ordering parts? Can JLC deliver them or you order them separately? If separetely where?
I used JCLPCB more than 10 times and have not incurred any problems that were my fault for not checking things properly. I am also a hobbyist for this and avoid using packages that are beyond my ability to solder. Things like BGA packages, 0402’s SMD’s etc.
Nice video. thanks. i have been working in China for 14 years, there's good and bad supplier like everywhere. for hobby projects, better choose close supplier in your own language
A friend of mine also had issues when parts went out of stock, they were just not fitted. It might be fine for parts with legs, but is not so easy to solder legless parts without a hot air station or a hot plate, which i don't have. Do-able, but not something i want to do.
But to be fair though, on the button symbol, pin 1 and pin 3 are connected with a solid line, the switch part is between the top and the bottom of the symbol.
Thank yo Tomas. PS: about the button, yes ... other people noticed too :)
As many already said, I think it was just bad luck. I have ordered a few and didn't have significant issues. I had although exactly the same problem you had with the usb connector. They didn't assembly it. Luckily I had a few at home that fitted
How did you like the easyeda software? I have used it for several projects but would be interested in your opinion as an experienced professional
@18:00 to tell the footprint they provide should have raised some flags already. Until now, I haven´t found / seen any buttons like this, so going to the layout I would already had flags waiving in front of me. Dunno, what is your experience?Edit: I see now also your pinned comment, can happen to the best of us :-). We all need vacations I think :-/
Yes, JLCPCB is not perfect, however i have been using their service for almost a year, one order per month and had problems 3 times, bad soldering, but a very easy fix. I think if you are designing very small, complex/high precision or with subminiature components, you shouldn`t use this service. but for average consumer level projects it is absolutely great because it is an all in one service, reasonably fast and very cheap.
An order for a few boards gets made by hand by these manufacturers as it simply isn't cost effective to set up a production run otherwise, and so we don't get the benefits of a professional factory made board that we are sort of led to expect. This means with a bit of kit and some practice we could achieve the same thing at home without the mistakes.
If ordering a few hundred boards then they will set up a production run and the first few out of the reflow oven will be checked to ensure parts are placed correctly and the solder has reflowed nicely, with necessary tweaks made, so that the run of boards will look good and be correct and consistent quality.
Basically we get what we pay for, and a few tens of dollars to assemble a handful of boards isn't going to be a great experience, and will depend on who gets to do it on the day. For example, see PCBWays video, here they show small production runs being made, the components are hand placed then reflowed using a hot air gun. th-cam.com/video/qVGfXy85St8/w-d-xo.html
For the button, it looks like your schematic is wrong? You connected all 4 pins together?
actually, your fix of lifting the pins on the button corrects the fact that you've shorted the switch out on the schematic.
The pcb is usually good quality. The components- that can be a problem. As others have said, let them do the jellybean components. Be sure to spec the ceramic caps. You buy and install the more expensive or challenging components.
Few day ago ordered 10 prototypes with just passive elements fitted (around 35 pcs), hope it gonna come in better shape. Now Im not so sure it was my best idea.
I find JLPCB is great for PCB's but as they will not fit any part not in their own stock I never use them for my assembly work. So I use PCBWAY for assembly. Have had many parts made and cannot complain. Good service and they double check everything.
I often use their service for PCB manufacture and also for SMT service. Never had any issue with quality. Tie to LCSC limited stock is big disadvantage though.
My last pcba order returned with 2 malfunctioning boards out of 5, with error rate of 40%, which is not acceptable for production. It might be good for prototyping, however, it takes an extra week for the assembly. I order the pcb only and assemble by hand, which usually takes a few hours, so i save a lot of shipping time, shipping cost and customs duties.
Hey Robert, what about a video comparing multiple PCB manufacturers with the same design? Personally, I use Elecrow in China and I definitely recommend them for the quality, service and price. JLC website is nice but i got some issues with the PCB itself (same gerbers from another manufucaturer worked).
I have used them a number of times and generally have good results, but I have noticed issues with the footprints and placements as well. my solution has been to limit what I ask them to place to pretty straightforward components. Quite honestly, given the amount of time I put into some of the boards, I'm surprised they work at all!
Qual software voce utiliza para montar a placa?
I had ordered PCBs from Jlcpcb many times. I once had a problem with component rotation (electrolytic capacitor) and solder bridges between ic pins (TQFP and QFN packages).
Also some components are get out of stock and it takes months to re-stock.
But other than that it's great pcb service for prototype PCBs as it's cheap and fast.
How on earth did that happen, SMT electrolytics have a double chamfer on the + end, both on the silk screen and physically ! If you used a through hole silk screen then that could have caused the issue due to being marked for the cathode rather than the + :(
@@steverpcb Also I was surprised because only one smd electrolytic capacitor placed wrong way on 1 PCB out of 5 PCBs 😶.
@18:14 I saw immediately that the switch was wired wrong, 1+3 are side A and 2+4 are B. The icon says it switches from 1+3 to 2+4, but you wired them together so they are always "pressed" or well shorted.
Hello,now I found they introduced a new charge called 'credit card fee' which is 5% of all invoice.It appears only on the last step of the order when you introduce credit card details and you already studied how much parts+assembly+shipping cost,so you don't pay attention that there is another fee added.I have never paid such a charge when paying with card.I didn't see in your video such charge on the Orders history page .Can you confirm that it was or not at that moment?Thanks.
jlcs pcb’s are fine, but the quality on the smt can vary wildly. i’ve heard of 4/5 boards being scrapped because of bad connector soldering, flipped esd chips, diodes the wrong way, wrong part being used (like a common anode diode set rather than common cathode). don’t think i’d trust it for more than an arduino. not a big loss tho- their part selection is pretty bad anyway, even worse now because of the shortages.
Hi Robert, i had exactly the same problem with a nother premium manufacturer in germany. Led was misplaces because of the wrong marking. Circle at pin one but the mark is at pin 3. They manually rotate the device. Also i made the same mistake with the button. So dont hurt yourself too much, shit happens all the time. My board was a very complex one with a iMX7. Every complex thing works but that simple things fails. Greetings from Germany!
Thank you Thomas
What are the best PCB Assembly service providers that we can rely on for complex boards?