Rod knock - how to check and deal with it
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
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Hear something knocking in your engine? Afraid it might be rod knock? Here's how to check it out.
Whether it's a knocking noise inside your engine or a clicking one or whatever else, the only truly foolproof way of checking for rod knock is taking a direct look at your rods and rod bearings. To do that you need to remove your oil pan.
Removing the oil pan is easy. In the case of my MR2 mk1 all you need to do is get the exhaust out of the way and unbolt the oil pan. After that remove the oil strainer and you can take a look at your rods and rod bearings.
Shake the rods a bit. If they feel loose that is very bad and everything needs to come out. In my case the rods were rock solid but once I removed my bearings I noticed some very alarming things and confirmed that my engine unfortunately did develop rod knock. I just got caught it pretty early. Rod 1 looked best, rod 4 worst, to me it seems like it's an oiling issue, although my oil pressure was good the needle on the manual oil pressure gauge was pretty bouncy.
So what now? Another rebuild. I'll drop this engine soon and get it fixed using a junkyard 4age engine I just got. Time to get dirty again.
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Music used in the video:
Escape - Kiss
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#d4a rodknock #diy #4age #4age16v #aw11 #ae86 #4agebigport #mr2mk1 #mr2 #toyota #jdm #celica #corolla #starlet #ke70 #fx16
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You did exactly what I want to do at the end of your video. 2 weeks of hard work on the top end to hear a knock after start up. I had an oiling issue with my new oil pump. Sick is an understatement. Thank you for reminding me it isn't the end of the world, just a lesson. Painful one, but a lesson. Thanks for the video!
First step is to cry a little.
ShazamMafia Haha true.
🤣
i cried a lot bc i just got the truck 4 months ago 😭
a little or a lot its all ok
Just wait till you guys have a impreza.
its inevitable
Don't be fooled. That ax and pirate knife are professional tools from the Snap-On truck. $400 each.
Special Ed lol!
$600 with Biden inflation.
pro tip, tap on the bottom of the rod cap while the piston is at the top of its stroke, you'll hear which of the rods are loose.
I like this guy’s sense of humor 😂
I realised it wasn’t the video I was looking for but it was too funny to stop watching 😂
European comedy LOL. I love how he laid out the cloth at the end
His son should apply to Starfleet Academy in a few years!
“that hammer was to weak so I grabbed an axe” . Almost about pissed myself 😂😂😂
LMAO!!!
You’re honest humble attitude followed by a humorous harakiri is a perfect example of the experience that goes through a drivers mind when they understand how serious/expensive/work intensive it’s going to be bring back their dream project/baby/daily driver back to reliable running condition. ( The AUTHENTIC shot where you’re pulling the oil pan and demonstrating how well the OEM GASKET functioned, was just beautiful!)
Torque wrench seppuku was the best ending to any video I've ever seen. XD
+802 Garage Hehehe. Thank you. I guess I can cross that one off on my bucket list.
802 Garage
Needed his buddy to come behind him and smack him over the head with a monkey wrench after, but bravo for the attempt 😂👏!
No no no you use a inch-lb torque wrench you're second uses a ft- lb torque, well maybe in you're next life "engine failure".
I had a '66 Jeep Wagoneer with an AMC 327 V8 engine. It ran quiet, but smoked some. I was going to replace the rings, but when I removed the rod bearing caps, I saw that the bearings were worn down to the copper. I checked the journals with a micrometer, and they were in surprisingly good condition. I replaced the rod and main bearings, along with the rings, and a few other things, and it ran great. All I'm saying is that I'd check the crank first. You may be able to polish the crank in the engine and use a slight oversized bearing, and get a good engine.
2:46...Smelling your bolt is very important when it comes to changing oul.
I wish more videos were like this. No nonsense, right to the point
Pfft copper being scraped away, that's nothing, i didn't even have a bearing left in my car, and i could grab fistfulls of metal shavings from the oil pan, and BAM!! I put on new connecting rod bearings, AND Voila! Runs like new😁👌
Obviously he polished the crank journals. Also one needs to flush engine to extract as much metal debris as possible from oil passages.
You didn't even scream at the end. Very honorable. :)
Good to hear that you are using this unfortunate situation as an opportunity to improve your MR2.
I am looking forward to more videos in the future.
aztecred92 Thank you for your support. I'm fortunate to have you on board.
I spun a rod bearing and the conrod had elongated into an oval on my turbo engine. With the engine in the car and without removing the crank, I was able to sand down the main and rod journals, and change all the main and rod bearings. Obviously the damage was much worse than yours.
I debated buying a new conrod but didn't want to have to remove the entire top end to pull the pistons so I decided to shim the conrod cap with a piece of soda can (just a shim on the bottom not the top) and used standard size bearings everywhere including that one conrod. I had debated whether to use one standard and one +1 oversize bearing on that one conrod but I'm glad I used the shim now.
I checked all clearances with plastigauge. It runs great has good oil pressure (70 cold and 35 hot). I babied the car for the first couple hundred miles, changed the oil and since then have been driving it hard as normal. It's been about 6 months since the repair and runs great. All that to say, don't give up you can fix these type of problems without rebuilding the entire engine.
Shimming doesn't work always
just sand the journals and put in new rod bearings
uh. naw. this isnt a tractor its an 8000rpm motor
@@pornokid333 Horse shit..I done it to 500 hp+ engines..Unless they are scorched earth burned to shit. You can polish them out..Slap some new bearings in. She be good as new...
As long the tip of your nails does not feel a scratchy feel on journal it is safe to say that all you need is to polish that journal
polish the crank and install new bearings
Should the replacement bearings be the next size down?
Depends on bearing clearance ascertained by plastigauge or micrometer.
You could but risk excessive clearance thus lower oil pressure. Engine should be thoroughly cleaned of all metallic particles before new bearings are installed.
Actually, I would replace the crankshaft, because I saw heat damage from the friction, meaning that the crankshaft probably has lost some hardness at the journals. However, getting a junkyard engine is probably cheaper, so repearong this one, and getting a junkyard engine if this one fails is also a good option
First seconds of the video, I thought the solution to all 4 rods knocking was to just turn the radio up. To be fair, that did work when I had rod knock
Great detective work. No BS video. Loved it. Been there on my back removing oil pans. Thanks.
That crankshaft is not so bad, I'd just put new bearing shells and see what happens.
Pirate knife and an Axe, apparently the true tools of a professional, don't forget the seppuku torque wrench, which is the step I'm current at with my 4runner.
You should of used plastigage to check clearence between new bearing and crankshaft. Should be somewhere around .002 In. Or slightly less. If needed, use oversize bearing to compensate. Make it a little on the tight side, so bearing can wear in. This may keep you from replacing crank or engine. Check other bearings.
i need you help on ths one because my hyundai genesis is making a crazy noise under the car i would like to get in touch with you on facebook and show you the video ifpossible because i dont want to shange the complete engine can u help
No such thing as a bearing wearing in. The crank and bearing should never touch, needs oil films always no exception.
Online diagnosis is always difficult an d more like poking in the dark, than serious problem solving. Plus, I know Volkswagen EA827s but not Toyota A-engines.
Like you said in the video, the damage can be caused by a weak oil supply, due to a worn out pump, bad/wrong filter, or dirt inside the oil galleries.
Do you flushed and brushed the galleries, when you rebiult the engine?
The rod bearings get less oil than the mains, so they die first on not enougth oil or low pressure.
Dirt inside the galleries first goes into the main bearings and grindes them before the rod bearings. Unplausible according to the footage, but i woul check them. You will have to pull the crank out anyway.
Different Idea:
Of course the crankshaft could have been already damaged or bent when you assambled the motor.
Do you checkt it for balance and messured the exact journal diameter?
And what size of bearings do you used? Maybe the journals were already grinded once before and standard sized bearings caused way to much bearing play --> more oil loss at the bearings --> less oil pressure + big bearing play -----> damaged bearings.
Used Parts are cheap an especially on old cars the only available ones. But you never know, what happend to the stuff before.
Little tip at the end:
Put some cardbord on the floor, when you work under the car. It´s way more easy to slide around on it and less cold in winter.
Use emery cloth and polish the journals then roll in a new set of bearings. Do this to big deisel engines and works every time.
Awesome will try this
The crank journals need to me measured and tested very very precisely. I'd say while you have it out, test the runout on the crank, taper and out of round on the crank and rod journals, and basically see if your crankshaft is worth a shit before you move on. Also, plastigauge the journals just to make sure that you have good oil clearances. Great build though, I just subbed to your channel about a month ago and love the content
Dominic Iacino Thanks, will measure everything as I did first time. The problem turned out to be blasting media that got inside the engine somehow. I made a small update video about it. My crank is in the machine shop already, getting ground 0.25 mm. :)
I feel for you brother! That's just the nature of cars, I wish you the best on the guts transplant and would highly advise a quality oil pump over something like a turbo, keep your chin up bro!
Hey there. Thank you for your support man! I bought a brand new AISIN oil pump the first time I was doing this rebuild. I will see if it can be reused, it only did like 600 miles. But I will buy a new one if there's any hint of something wrong with this one.
Good reply Road Worthy. Also i think the point of the attack is not the gutsbas much as the main arteries feeding and returning to the lower part of the body.
Can't you just replace bearings ?
Thanks for the detailed look inside! I"m having some heavy knock in my '85 MR2. I haven't cracked it open yet but it shows all the signs of bottom-end bearing failure. I've juiced it with 20w-50 and we'll see how it goes a few miles at a time. I plan on a swap or rebuild. Look forward to more of your videos, and hope to have a few of my own up soon. Take care!
+bee dee Sorry to hear you got the knocky rods too. 20w50 won't help much or for long. I would suggest getting the engine out asap, before it throws a rod and makes a huge mess of your engine bay. That would also mean you will need a new block. If you're determined to do a swap than it matters less, but still best to get it out soon. I'll be uploading an engine drop video next week, should be useful for you. Good luck and let us know once you upload your vids, I would love to see them. Thanks for watching.
Hammering a pirate knife into an oil pan with a hatchet... This is a man I would pay to work on my MR2! Hahaha.
try ice pick, hammer with a kilo sledge hammer...!
This exactly what I was going to post.. the man wanted to get the job done
Next time just try a flat head screwdriver? Will pry, won't break.
Keep a knocking, but you can't come in! Rod: what you mean, I'm trying to get out!
Just rebuilt my 240sx and I am in the same predicament. Trust me, I contemplated torque wrench suicide also...
DRY START
1. Rebuilt/Overhaul - Starting the engine without priming the oil pump to build up oil pressure.
2. Oil & Filter change- Starting the engine without waiting for oil to drain in the pan.
3. Oil Filter - using oil filter without anti-drainback valve
The insensored parts are GREAT because working on cars is not always textbook, sometimes u got to improvise adapt and overcome!! Great job keeping it real tho!!
Victor Ramirez You said it!
I worked at an engine re-man facility and i did the crankshaft recondition and set up in block. Bottom end work should be done with the engine out of car. IF you really know your work and its an easy engine to access, a bottom end refresh is possible. I would not recommend this for a shade tree tech.
The total run out on a v8 crank is .0002.
The taper on a rod journal can be as tight as .000015. There is no mention of a crank knock ( crank main journal moving in a main bearing) which is not common, but happens, and it sounds like a rod knock and many times it is acceptable and doesn't affect engine life.
At some point this just became everything you shouldnt do under a car lmao lmao.. good vid
I've seen people laugh when they see a rod poking out from the block. Everyone knows it's now a boat anchor, and the owner was almost proud of the carnage.
But when people hear that knocking sound, a pall falls over the group and no one wants to be the one to say it first. The optimist will always say, "maybe it's a collapsed lifter", even knowing it's a solid lifter engine.
Very artistic oil pan paint job.
I'm an artist at heart lol
My first car was an '86 MR2. There are currently 4 mk1s sitting in my dad's yard. Working underneath was always a pain. I pulled the fuel pump one time and socked myself in the eye with the drill battery. Knocked it off a jack and onto a wheel I had slid under it while changing out the alternator. I quit for the day after that happened. Just about pooped my pants. Timing belt? OMG what a pain. I pulled the engine and transmission when I was 19 and had the block and head work done by a shop for $900. I reinstalled it myself. Priming the coolant in Mister two is a real PITA. The 4AGE is a real fun motor to rev though. They used it in the Toyota Atlantic series back in the day. Putting it in the MR2 was brilliant, but also a mechanic's nightmare. Toyota at the time was way more practical than fun and the AE86, MR2, and supra were big shifts for Toyota in the 1980s.
You're a proper adub veteran my man! Much love for that. You're right, the space in that engine bay can be tight but it's still an absolute joy and breeze compared to newer cars.
Great info! That helped me a lot. Tough luck on the engine!! I'm sure the new rebuild will be awesome. By the way, I think I would of did the same at the end. Lol. Can't help but to like the improvising tools. Keep up the good work.
The answer is 4A-GE 20V Blacktop! 👍😊
Hmmmm, that's never a bad idea. But I would need to import that engine, which is a horribly complicated and extremely expensive endeavor over here in Europe. I would love to hear that sweet ITB sound tho.
Yeah I agree, I had a silver top in mine and they are just the best engine!
Lol mechanic acrobatics😭😭😭🔥🔥🔥🔥lol You the 🐐
Oh, and I forgot to mention. I think you have already planned this, but it should be relatively easy and cheap(ish) to take the crankshaft out of the junkyard motor you got and use that to replace your existing crankshaft (assuming it's out of spec and/or bent). Just need to get it machined to the right size and slap some new bearings in.
Also, I laughed at the seppuku with the torque wrench. There's a bit of a language joke over here, where someone says, "I guess I'll just have to commit sudoku..." instead of seppuku.
I know the feeling😢 just happened to me with my is300 2jz😢😢😢 i have limited space to take the engine out through the top/with a crane..... ill try through the bottom😅 not giving up! Cheers to you and your knowledge! 🍻
I think I remember from the Road Hunt Episode you telling about some wrong procedure on sodablasting inner engine parts... Maybe it was suspension issues. Not so sure, but I heart it from you.
Thanks for the rod bearing education.
Lol that ending was great!!!! Love your sense of humor
Lol!! Pirate knife, im adding that to my tool box today, and im going to the reservation to get an official tomahawk !!!
Sorry about your discovery, but I know of no one more capable and knowledgeable of the “project engine removal” than you.
Take us with you! That little rice burner is going to be a rice rocket! It’s gona be the baddest go-cart on the intraWeb!
Keep smelling bro, the nose knows.
The ending was the best part lol
Thanks, this answered everything I was thinking about with my car.
Next step, just pull the crank caps and inspect.
Nice humor, and decent video.
Love the snap-on kitchen knife! lol
A little emery cloth on the crankshaft journals and pop new bearings in. Done
Most people don't know about an overhaul instead if a full rebuild.
Bout to dp that to my magnum. I caught the very beginning on a bearing going out. Only slips when revved.
@@stormshockin 4.7? I hear em goin out on my uncles 02 ram too
@@discokitten5325 nah man I was stupid, got the 2.7. But i know better now.. will never ever buy a small engine vehicle. Always go big or go home!!
Same thing just happened to my BUILT 350z motor. The person that rebuilt it left an oil leak somewhere and I've been putting oil since rebuilt. I went 1 week without adding oil and just killed it last night
Your intro is the best dude 😍🤣
My god that was funny, I needed that right now, the end of your video is how I feel right now, i just spent $1,100 on OEM parts timing chain, gaskets, oil pump and oil pan gasket, 16 lifters and the hours to install them. The knocking got even worse, the bad thing was I could not get the oil pan off to look at the rod bearings. I really do think it's probably rod knock, so I'm going out tomorrow to buy a car for the wife spending $11,000 to $17,000 on a car and park this pig 2001 Dodge Dakota with 200k mileage and figure what I'm going to do, I was thinking of buying a used engine $800 to $1,500 and swapping out the parts witch would put me at $1,800 -$2,500. not sure if that's the right decision the problem with that is I can by a long block for $2,800 and have a 3 year warranty on the engine. Sometimes its best not to be handy, in retrospect I should have parked the truck, bought a another car and pulled the engine I would have saved my self $1,1000 and 15-25 hours. This truck turned into a money pit.
Naaaah. I thought that way for a few days after it happened to me to. I wanted to burn the car down. But the learning experience was valuable. I did the rebuild twice as fast the second time around :) Try to be positive about it, in the long run it will all make sense. Right now just park it and let things settle in your head :) The right decision will come by itself.
I thought you were always supposed to use your head when working on cars? :P
+802 Garage Hehe... Good one :)
My man said you can see the copper been scraped away LOL
LMAO the ending of this video made me laugh so hard thanks bro
When the bearings are worn this badly it is usually due to some type of abuse (running the engine low on oil or going too long between oil and filter changes causing excessive wear). I don't think normal wear will go all the way through the bearing material exposing the brass underneath it unless the engine has 150k+ miles on it. This engine probably has a lot of wear on the rest of its moving parts as well as the bearings and replacement with a good used or remanufactured engine might be the most efficient way to restore the car to good working order.
he says in a comment reply there was blasting media left in the block when it was rebuilt, which cause the wear
Something got very hot.I recommend a high silicon aluminum bearings as they are durable and the will polish the journals.
So your bearings went bad after a rebuild?, it would be interesting to know why they had deteriorated so quickly. Good video, thanks for sharing
A bit of blasting media was left inside the block and it ruined the oil pump and bearings. A blasted block can't be cleaned as the blasting media embeds itself in the metal and comes loose only whem the engine heats up. Now I know better.
Miss the retractable headlights from the 80s-90s. Had a 1985 GT Celica and wish I would of kept it. Great power and good of fuel...Looks like I'll be doing this work on my 97 Camry including the Pirate knife...
Yep try a 4 wheel drive oil pan removal on a gm blazer. Some major engineer hates mechanics for sure the way it is designed.
Great video!! im doing the same with my CItroen 3cv (Argentine version of 2cv6) when i see the rock knock... is only the half the other parts in the bottom of the engine block... the engine was running fine ...is a 1974 model... never open the engine... very good quality engine ......
Hey man love the videos. Also sorry about your engine, it totally sucks that you did everything right and still get that outcome. Hope you're able to get something else sorted without too much hassle. Pity it's so difficult to get a blacktop in your location. There's plenty around in NZ and you can pick them up for as little as $400. Anyway, keep up the good work with the vids.
Don't Fall For Me Thanks a lot man. Your support means a lot. I am seriously considering emigrating to NZ, the 4age scene and the car scene on general seems really awesome over there :) Europe is seriously weak in the 4age department, but I guess that makes me kinda exotic and special? Who knows. Maybe I come over some day :)
@@d4a no sikiriki drug sve se napravi samo zdravlje malo teze 😊 🤟
There is nothing wrong with your crankshaft, just polish it out.
There should have been metal shavings in the oil. That would have given u a clue. The best way iv seen to determine rod knock is take out the sparkplugs rotate one cylinder at a time to just past TDC then with a screwdriver in the sparkplug hole push down listen and feel for movement.
I think I know where you went wrong. First off sorry about your problem. I had something similar. I know how it feels but we learn from our mistakes and get better at doing such stuff.
Now the problem might be you did not lube the bearings and the shafts. Its like this; any time you have metal to metal contact there's gonna be friction. In this case you might think it has sufficient lube from oil pan thus not taking the extra step of greasing the bearing. So when you start your engine it takes a few engine revolutions before the oil starts to circulate to the bearings, and those few seconds are known to cause damages similar to what you have.
Solution: apply high temp. Grease aka engine bearing grease between the bearings and the shaft. Lots of grease this is a must do type of step in all kinds of bearings. Especially in cam shafts and crank shaft it lubes and acts as a spacer avoiding metal to metal contact before the oil circulates and takes over the spacing.
I laughed out loud when you grabbed that axe! 🤣🤣🤣
first half of video is funny as hell man thanks for the great video
I would have liked to have heard how bad the knock was at that stage of bearing failure.
An axe and a bowie knife , holy shit man ,
Imanaged to free the oil pan after stabbing the fuck out of it the belting it with the butt of my axe lol
Ha! I lost my shit when u pulled out the hatchet!
On a serious note, wear eye protection. I learned not from getting an eye poked, but from a faceful of rust flakes sent me to hospital. Fool me once...
always check water and oil channels before assembly. Use compressed air and something like cable ties to check for cloth or anything in the way. Also its always good idea to port the cranks oil feed lines. Do some research on this topic for the next build. My 4AGE was running redline drifting 5 years, it broke its diff and transmission and it didn't give in :)
Asen Moskov I researched a lot. You would not believe how much I cleaned all the water and oil channels. The bearings are usually the last thing to go on a 4age. I'm now suspecting my oil cooler because I didn't clean it. In any case, I'm the only one to blame here. I'll know the reason soon enough. Im removing the engine as I'm typing this :).
search all oil related parts for clues, drain the filter in a cup and check with magnet. This is not normal wearing on 4AGE bearings. And i watched your build, the engine was built properly.
+Asen Moskov Thanks. I will definitely dig in detail through everything until I figure it out.
Brilliant vid this stuff happens to me specially the exuast in the hoodie keep the faith man
Very good video
My 03 mercury has the same problem and thanks for the info
This is a great video. Thank you so much! I laughed the entire way too! Grabbing the axe and the pirate knife hahaha! Whatever works! What kind of tool do you use to turn the engine? I hope you got your MR2 working-I know that sucks
Mr2 is definitely back in action. You can check out some of the new vids to see how I rebuilt it. I use a Socket wrench, a very long extension and a 17mm socket to turn the engine. Works great.
You did the honorable thing.
Thumbnail for this video, is awesome. Also, your methods are great. An axe!! A. Fucken. Axe!!
Hahahahahaha.
What ever it takes, aye?
Real, recognize real.
Tawi Dave The hammer was five steps away, the axe an arm's length away. The right tool is always the one I can get without getting up :)
It real help me and save a lot in my pocket.
there was junk left in the engine after it was rebuilt the first time.
tom ashton Exactly
I just started hearing engine knock so I decided to look up a youtube video on it.
"What I'm going to be doing in the next few minutes is committing suicide."
I feel ya, man. Appreciate the humor.
i love your videos and what you do what you explain keep up good work! Greetings from Turkey!
Mustafa Usta Thank you! I'm happy to have you on board. Turkiye cok guzel :)
teşekkürler :) have you been in Turkey
Mustafa Usta Bursa, Izmir and Ankara a loooong time ago. Istanbul 2 years ago.
Very nice i live in Kayseri i have been in Ankara and İstanbul too, very nice cities i am looking forward to see your new videos
A guy named Mustafa from Turkey!!??? Crazy! What are the chances??
I sympathize with you cause I think I got same problem 2002 BMW x5... Looking for a knife now ..
Could your hear the knock before you took a look at the bearings? And if so, was it a constant sound or was it hust now and than noteable?
I could definitely hear it, but only once the engine warmed up. It was constant and would of course increase in speed together with rpm.
The best part, I smelled my bolt and I have no idea why I did that LOL Dude, who doesn't! We all SMELL STUFF all the time haha
Subscribed for the opening music.
When checking the rod bearings you need to check the bearing thats on the rod because there is all the pressure of the combustion
Sucks about the engine. But you do make the videos informative and fun to watch lol
Lol your samurai ending 😂😂😂
this guy can detect rod bearing wear just by smelling oil pan bolt. This is some next level Bunta shit :D
Remember to wear your invisible safety glasses LOL
HHahahahha!! I couldnt stop laughing hahah!! Kinda Reminds me of myself!! Cuss like crazy when shit like that happens! Honestly would pay to watch thid guy work on my car haha!!! Pirate knife haha somthing I would try hahahaa!! Great video boss!
You rock.. I have similar pain with my 1994 chevy diesel. I should let it die... retire it but it only has 400000 miles on it. It's still a pup🤣
Nice video sir.
As much as i love the idea of a pirate knife and an axe. I think it might be a wise investment for you to get a 2 dollar paint scrapper and just be careful. The moment i saw the painted oil pan, i knew i was in for a real treat.
"That hammer was to weak, so I got an axe.... I finally managed to get it in..." AHAHAHAHAHAH I love it!
This is perfect! im thinking of buying the same generation mr2 and the one im looking at has rod knock. Thanks!