We currently have the T16 open for preorder. We are going to start shipping them once they have FCC Part 15 certification (a couple weeks the last we heard). Anyone who's shipped these so far are shipping non-final versions that, according to Jumper, are "only few pieces to some dealers so they can have some feedbacks of the product which helps us improve the T16 a better product", so I would read that as "test radios"...and not FCC Part 15 approved radios yet either. We have a heck of a time getting products from FR-Sky in a timely manner anyway, so unless that changes I really can't see how they feel they have any amount of leverage to force us to stop selling Jumper products. Honestly, it makes us want to carry more of their products since Jumper has answered all our questions and shown they have been following the open source rules. I've heard rumors of a big $$ payout from FR-Sky to another dealer down south if they stop selling Jumper, and strangely enough that site doesn't allow back orders of any Jumper products any more. This type of bullying behavior isn't good for anyone.
Oh please, you want to start false rumors? - The issues you have with FrSky are your own doing and you know that. If you want product all you had to do is order it and pay for it. Pretty simple. But good luck with that FCC certificate.. No multiprotocol module has ever been FCC approved legally. You should already have known that.. Good luck with the FCC violations that are going to start rolling in.
@@WayneFlower You might want to watch spreading rumors. We're STILL waiting for an order that has been processing since the end of February and final payment sent a month and a half ago when it was "ready to ship". Of course you're sympathetic to FR-Sky, it's your main product line. Also, go ahead and search the official FCC site for ID 2ANTI-JP4IN1, the multi-protocol module has been approved since February. We're just waiting for them to get the full radio/module cert.
Stand strong RMRC! Competition is good for the industry (any industry). First FR Sky shuts out TBS, now they wanna push Jumper out. Not Cool, I have lost respect for FR Sky.... I will still keep my X9D ( it works with crossfire with no hacking needed)
The have some really nice receivers too, The R1 is a clone of the original XSR. You can find one for 10-12 usd on Ebay. I'm running two without any issues.
@@AreaKruzer I'm not sure about the smartport, I did'nt hook up that wire. You may have to look it up. GETFPV had some for sale at one point... All I can say is that mine work flawlessly and they cost me less than a XM+. www.getfpv.com/jumper-r1-d16-frsky-compatible-micro-receiver-with-s-port-and-s-bus.html
IF it really is similar to the X10 in function then you are getting an awesome amount of value... the only thing i wouldnt like is switching to a new form factor but if i was looking at a new radio TODAY i would get the jumper of my Qx 7 for sure... this move by frsky just solidifies that decision. They should have kept their mouth shut and just allowed their considerable reputation and history of quality to speak for itself..
Jumper release the T16 and people that want it will buy it. FrSky sends out a letter, more people will buy the T16 than would of due to the tactics. Top work!
TBH, the first time I saw a Jumper I thought it was a Chinese pos joke just like those FlySky transmitters (I'm a stickler for build quality and they look like they'd shatter by looking at them wrong, and no I have never touched one, that is the quality of FrSky and the feel in my hands compared to my old Spektrums, makes my DX6G2 feel like a near toy). And to top it off, I considered FrSky sketchy for a bit simply due to the low price, until the QX7, and I got a QX7s with a carbon case, a zipper box/carry 'bag' and an R9X radio module on sale as the last item in stock for thanksgiving at less than the regular non sale price of the store's base model QX7 with a white case, no hall effect sensor gimbals and ONLY two position switches all around. MAN, made me give away most of my blade micros and my DX5e to a buddy who is a true helicopter hobbiest who fell on hard times. Am going to give him my DX6 soon as a surprise gift for all he has done to help me, even though he literally lost a lot of my money (long story but it's not as big of an issue as it sounds). But now I'm considering a Jumper, but am really not sure. I can literally feel the difference between the way a DSMX receiver flies and a FrSky protocol. I swear there is a difference having used different RX in the same FC. Gotta try them in helicopter FBLs to truly know if the difference is that big or that real though. I have an awesome multimodule for my Taranis, which I question the range of so it will only ever be used for micros, but is awesome to have. My DX6 does everything I _really_ need for helicopters if I ever have to use a DSM protocol RX, but I'm actually putting FrSky in all of my helis due to the low price point of quality RX. Long story short, is not only am I doubting the longevity of the Jumper TX alone, I am unsure of the native Jumper RX protocol now that I have truly felt the difference between protocols... And my reference to FlySky also has to do with it using the same protocol as RedCat (which btw, their land vehicles are pretty darn good, just being the cheapo RTF of the land vehicles, I doubt their aircraft radio signal due to it being a MUCH more serious matter. I lost signal on my Caldera 3.0 in under 500m. NOT GOOD FOR ANY AIRCRAFT BE IT A FOAMIE PLANK OR A 700 BRAIN EATING HELICOPTER.
Yep.. I'm coming back into RC after ten years out... Hearing about this _ensures_ I will _never_ buy a frsky product (if at all possible. If some drone I want only comes with a frsky receiver I could see doing that)... but I'll be using a jumper to say "up yours" =D
I wish we would wake up & realize that we can't have this hobby evolve without FOSS solutions on all layers. We need FOSS firmware for VTX, Tx, Rx, ESC, Cameras, Goggles if we are to collectively decide on this field's direction. That creates great competition for quality hardware, not gate keeping and monopolistic tactics through shitty DRM and waste of energy. On a side note, I can't wait to see what this ACCESS "encryption" is all about, and how long before it gets totally broken... You can't do security without peer review and especially not in closed source. #KerckhoffsPrinciple
@@RR123 If we could do something as simple as that then the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately I don't think that's ever going to happen.
KwadLife we demand competition! Make it better and cheaper and stop wining and pissing off reviewers! Lol we need him focused back on x-class! Go Ham or go home! :p
Prusa open source their 3D printer designs, but they're still making a pile of money from selling their own printers, because they're better than the derivatives coming out of China that use those open source designs. That's how you make your money with your open source products, by being better all round and offering much more, like their in-house own made filament, Prusament which is really really nice. I have a Prusa i3 Mk3 and many reels bought from them.
..agreed, it should open the product up to improvement and innovation. The first thing i 3d printed when i got mine was an I3X with dual direct drive extruders.
@@pkvillager No, they would not, because if they were closed, either someone else would have taken the leading role, or more probably, the whole segment would be far smaller than what it is today. Prusa (among many others) made what 3D printing is today, by helping building new mountains on top of other mountains, and he would'nt have had the same success if he had tried and close the segment for himself. Remember makerbot ?
Nothing wrong with Jumper selling these. It's nowhere near a clone or copy. If that e-mail example is to a western company they (FrSky) could open themselves up to anti-competition laws. Abusing a dominant position, as is the case here is totally illegal here. (UK)
I don't like what Frsky have done but I am not a fan of the Jumper T16 design. Competition is necessary so better products are made and the price is kept affordable.
Absolutely HUGE own goal by Frsky threatening vendors like that. I feel like buying a T16 just to give Frsky the middle finger and I dont even need a new TX. Lets all give jumper a leg ☝.
If you want to see someone who is dyed in the wool open source and has made himself into an industry leader then look at Josef Prusa. The 3D printer world is thriving on both open source hardware and software.
Only reason I would possibly buy FRsky right now would be for 2.4ghz receivers. I would bypass their controllers/tx entirely given the way they are behaving.
Keep it up Joshua. This is such an important service for the RC community. Competition and code evolution is at the core of open source. We have to make sure the playing field is level at all times. I am very proud of you to be taking a firm stance on fairness. Well done!
The best thing about the Jumper T16 is its huge compatibility with so many receivers that allows you own one radio/module and fly almost anything out there. The T16 is definitely on my radar and wish list now......
just started researching drones. found you. found the drama. now i want a T16 just to stick it to FrSky while i practice in a simulator. oh and you got another sub. keep up the great content!
Very debatable in my opinion. FrSky has not used any of TBS' code, nor have they copied their hardware design. The only thing they have done is release a competing product. TBS' claims basically amount to, "The R9 looks similar to the Crossfire Nano." I don't buy it. The circuit is not similar at all. The air protocol is inferior (IMO). If FrSky had truly "cloned" Crossfire, then R9 would be a better product than it is.
Attempting to run a monopoly based on the GNU GPL is wrong, it is contrary to the whole ethos. UNDERGROUNDFPV/FLYSKY/TBS all produce great products, with very low latency. One of these days i will get myself a crossfire module, untill then, i am most happy with Ibus. You put the case well Mr Bardwell. Thanks for being vocal about this, it shows you have the interests of your followers at heart, and are committed to the hobby and the community. Be well.
Thanks for your strong position and argument for open source. It's a superior development model, and more and more companies are discovering that fact. Open source thrives particularly well for software that isn't business differentiating, and I think OpenTX is a good example. Companies can cooperate in the development of OpenTX, and otherwise compete in all other aspects of the product. It's in both their interests that OpenTX works well, and what differentiates one radio from another isn't how well OpenTX works, but quality, function, price etc. I don't have the full story, but FrSky may feel that they have taken a disproportionate burden in the development of OpenTX, and perhaps Jumper should be expected to also contribute. If they did, FrSky could benefit from their work, and feel differently.
I ordered a jumper t16 halls this mornong from an Amazon seller. I totally agree with your assessment, open source is open for everyone. Where would we be if our only radio choice was Spectrum or Futaba? Radios would cost us whatever they decided to charge. Competition is the only way to keep prices reasonable and to promote innovation. Thanks for a great discussion.
Actually they basically cloned the crossfire, Jumper isn't cloning anything from frsky. The strongarm tactic is however pretty much exactly what TBS did. But, albeit a bit childish to do what he did, I feel that Trappy's claim is far more valid than that of Frsky's to Jumper.
@@MrTimmyGT Can you elaborate where R9 is a clone in any way? Software is different, hardware is different. One antenna looks similar and they use the same frequency band (that TBS doesn't own, lol), that's all about similarities.
@@hansturpyn5455 If they get their way, eventually they would be the ONLY products you even have the option of buying. Everyone should care about this, at least a little.
Wow Frsky are out of order. Jumper sort those gimbals and i will rock the T16, dont be bullied into submission come back stronger and battle with them, only thing i want for the T16 is hall effect gimbals.
I was looking to order an X9D but out of spite for their practices will order a Jumper T16 and I'm from the other side - country code 254. Congratulations FrSky for pissing off the whole globe.
First, I have been a software developer for decades (now retired). Joshua, you are spot on...the whole reason for writing Open Source code is to allow use on any hardware that will support it or designed for it. FrSky is totally wrong in what they are doing. Although I had been considering an FrSky radio and checking my options, the Jumper T16 provided more features for less money. I like the value, what you get for what it costs so I purchased a Jumper T16 and am very happy with it. Besides cost, the other main reason that I bought the Jumper T16 was the multi-protocol module which works great with my Bayang tiny whoops and also works great with my EMAX Tinyhawk Freestyle which has an FrSky receiver. Thanks.
This is blackmailing and i don't want that FrSky get away with it. I got a Jumper T8 and will eventually buy a new one with hall-gimbals. No need for FrSky !
Thank you. This is exactly my thoughts and you found the right words to fairly describe what FrSky is trying to pull off here. "Bullying" is a word I would have used and this is a huge problem if it is the market leader who does it. I will remember this if I need to buy my next radio or long range system or recommend one to others.
Once GPLed, it is almost impossible to legal close the source, even for a fork. You would have to rewrite the whole firmware only using OpenTX loose loosely as inspiration...
My FrSky X9D looks very similar to a JR radio transmitter I used to have back in the day. hmmmm. Also, even though I love FrSky, I would call them on a bluff if I was a distributor of theirs.
Even though I own an X-Lite and don't need another radio at this time, I am glad to hear you chose to keep supporting Jumper. What FrSky is doing kind of sounds like bullying... In my opinion, the way FrSky should fight this is to make a better radio than the T16 and price it competitively.
Stores should band together and collectively refuse to sell FrSky products if ANY store is cutoff by FrSky. "Evil succeeds when good men do nothing." It's true in retail, just as it is in politics.
jyunte doesny surprise me honestly that you havnt heard about it. It wasn’t that long ago but people for some reason like to swing off trappys nuts. Must be made of gold or something. The double standard in this hobby is amazing. Well no i guess society is one big double standard anymore
Thank you for being brave enough to explain that. I understand it would have been much easier to not cover that story. Please let your subscribers know if you do indeed get any special treatment from FrSky as I would like to think you have 100,000+ subscribers that would have your back.
Bought my first real radio, and probably will be my only radio just a week or two ago. Jumper T8sg carbon. I like it quite a bit. I modified the position of the switches a little and some other things because I can never leave something alone.. But knowing I didn't buy a frsky, (in large part because of this video) and they are probably reading this... gives me the warm and fuzzies. 🤗
I don't care two squats about the T-16 (like most big radios it's an answer to a question I didn't ask), but what FrSky is doing is straight up BS, and it is wrong, and I hope it backfires. Unfortunately it's not illegal, and while I can't reasonably move all my gear away from FrSky now, I can stop recommending them to others (One big FrSky vendor told me recently they got into FrSky based on recommendations and stories I told about my FrSky usage). I can also inform people about how sleazy they have become.
This video came out in May, and I have been watching with great interest where the T16 has been headed. It is now Sept and yesterday I ordered a T16. My decision was fueled after having received 3 "bad batch" R9MM receivers from my chosen FrSky dealer. So; 3 failed receivers, a QX7 radio that has to be modded to get Crossfire to work, FrSky's attempts at strong arming dealers... All of this is enough for me to tell FrSky that they get no more of my money. I will be putting all of my FrSky stuff on the used market and will be switching to a Jumper/Crossfire setup. This is OUR hobby guys, lets not let un-ethical business practices prevail in it. It cheapens the industry, and lessens us as end users if we support those that would bring those un-ethical practices into it. Kudos to Ready Made RC and others for sticking to their guns and not being strong armed or selling out to FrSky.
I had to replace my almost dead Taranis QX7. I was conisdering the X9D because of crossfire incompatibility of QX7 (I was not happy to discover that and I am pretty sure it's done on purpose). You video and Kabab's one convinced me: I have ordered the T16 only to promote competition. I have already done that with AMD porcessor in place of Intel.
FrSky can go and fester for their handling of this, wont be purchasing any of their products no matter what. They have made my mind up for me when buying a new tx.
I really wish the multi protocol module was internal on the T16, really like the remote but do not want to remove my CSFR every time I want to run one of my other Rx protocol quads, any chance of them doing that in the future I wonder?
I'm officially shocked by FrSky's practices now. They cloned my SPRacingF3 schematic for their first F3 flight controllers and now they want to stop other people cloning! Talk about pot calling the kettle black... This makes me want to buy a Jumper T16 even more now! FrSky, I suggest you concentrate on making good products that people want and not on underhanded business practices.
I definitely do not agree with FrSky on their decision. Overall, it does come down to corporate/money BS, so in a way I understand. But, in no way, do I agree. FrSky, get your panties back in line. Your supporters would continue to be your supporters (i.e. me), if you just played fair. I had no intentions of buying a T16, but stuff like this will make peoples' (including mine's) opinions change rather quickly. Jumping ship to TBS time?
Tbs did the same thing to frsky with there r9m... trappy did the same.. but yet people..including barfwell here and most the other commenters still probly have crossfire
@@huh4tofpv384 1. TBS and FrSky are huge compared to Jumper. So FrSky just could react to TBS with a massive price cut. 2. The R9M still has al long way to go to be as good as Crossfire. Trappy/TBS keeps innovating.
Frsky did a lot of good to the hobby anf I had a good image of them for that. But when I see that it kinds of ruins it. Reading all the comments do believe a streisand effect could come from that "frsky thinks the t16 is dangerous for their market share? Must be a great product then!"
There was enough market for them to both coexist. I don't like what FrSky did, but it seems disingenuous to support Jumper as well, from my point of view. I am a FrSky user, formerly Spektrum and before that Futaba but initially Airtronics, so I have been through the transmitter mill for a long time, and it takes a lot to get me to "jump" ship. I'm curious how well Jumper will support the Open TX fork for their radios? *I guess I am asking where will the innovation come from in the future from, OpenTX or JumperTX?* Basically, will JumperTX just copy the work of the OpenTX team? To me, it's like BetaFlight and ButterFlight, and where has that gone to these days? While I understand the anger many have for FrSky trying to strong arm vendors and while I agree it's just plain wrong. I can't in all fairness just abandon FrSky for a couple of hasty actions against a competitor. *I am betting on OpenTX, as they earned my respect through all of the fine work we all enjoy.* Jumper can copy the crap out of it, as there's nothing to stop them, but there's room for all of them in this growing hobby. *Those of us about to Fly, salute all of you that make it possible.* To quote an infamous American: *"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?"*
I appreciate if you want to support FrSky because of their contributions to the project. I think that FrSky has absolutely earned your support. But we have to always remember that the GPL explicitly allows and in fact encourages companies like Jumper to "just copy the work" of the OpenTX team. If the OpenTX team wasn't okay with that, they shouldn't have used the GPL license when they started their project.
@@frankbarajas I mean (if I understand correctly how it went) OpenTX existed before FrSky used it and employed someone from its team. (Did I get that wrong ?) JB said (in his just previous comment) that FrSky should'nt have used the GPL license for their project if they weren't ok with other people using their work. My intervention was tjust a resay of JB's Fortress/Mountain comparison and that FrSky created their products based on the efforts of outside contributors, they reaped the benefits of the license and now seem to cry foul on anyone that does the same...
Is the argument Frsky has based on the firmware Jumper is using, or the multi-protocol capabilities of the inclsuded module? I haven't been paying too much attention to this issue, but it reminds me of the Spektrum Vs OrangeRx saga of days past. That battle was over the use of Spektrums proprietary DSMX protocol, and it seems to me that Frsky would have a perfectly reasonable case on that front.
Nice. Oh how sweet sauce would it be for Jumper to come out with a "Streisand model". Just a little cartoon drawing of her on the front or something would be awesome... Or better yet just name the whole model after her in huge bold letters. Maybe I need to find a sticker of her for the back of mine 😂 lol.
@@liamhaddon7526 meh we will only know if it's better in a few years time. The x9d has been proven to be reliable, I'll wait and see if the the t16 is good or just more hype
I'm using my Horus with their own developed fr os system. I like it that way. Frsky products like telemetry modules, redundancy bus, Gas suite, etc cost time & money to develop. Also customer support, who have always been helpful. It called a company building product confidence. Having been in Hi Fi retail, I had accounts with , for example, Pioneer, but not Sony. You had specific dealerships with whom you built a relationship and had good support from. The likes of Comet Wharehouse ( remember them!!) tried to flog everything cheap and failed!! I can understand Frsky being pissed with dealers who try to sell products from rivals.
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We currently have the T16 open for preorder. We are going to start shipping them once they have FCC Part 15 certification (a couple weeks the last we heard). Anyone who's shipped these so far are shipping non-final versions that, according to Jumper, are "only few pieces to some dealers so they can have some feedbacks of the product which helps us improve the T16 a better product", so I would read that as "test radios"...and not FCC Part 15 approved radios yet either. We have a heck of a time getting products from FR-Sky in a timely manner anyway, so unless that changes I really can't see how they feel they have any amount of leverage to force us to stop selling Jumper products. Honestly, it makes us want to carry more of their products since Jumper has answered all our questions and shown they have been following the open source rules. I've heard rumors of a big $$ payout from FR-Sky to another dealer down south if they stop selling Jumper, and strangely enough that site doesn't allow back orders of any Jumper products any more. This type of bullying behavior isn't good for anyone.
Oh please, you want to start false rumors? - The issues you have with FrSky are your own doing and you know that. If you want product all you had to do is order it and pay for it. Pretty simple. But good luck with that FCC certificate.. No multiprotocol module has ever been FCC approved legally. You should already have known that.. Good luck with the FCC violations that are going to start rolling in.
well the rest of the world does not have that fcc problem
@@WayneFlower You might want to watch spreading rumors. We're STILL waiting for an order that has been processing since the end of February and final payment sent a month and a half ago when it was "ready to ship". Of course you're sympathetic to FR-Sky, it's your main product line. Also, go ahead and search the official FCC site for ID 2ANTI-JP4IN1, the multi-protocol module has been approved since February. We're just waiting for them to get the full radio/module cert.
Stand strong RMRC! Competition is good for the industry (any industry). First FR Sky shuts out TBS, now they wanna push Jumper out. Not Cool, I have lost respect for FR Sky.... I will still keep my X9D ( it works with crossfire with no hacking needed)
Well said!
I think that FrSky is giving Jumper free publicity by doing this...
I'm definitely buying a T-16 now.
FRsky isnt giving jumper publicity, the people threatened by them are making it public..
The have some really nice receivers too, The R1 is a clone of the original XSR. You can find one for 10-12 usd on Ebay. I'm running two without any issues.
@@yannickg6904 do the R1 have the uninverted smart port pad like the XSR?
@@AreaKruzer I'm not sure about the smartport, I did'nt hook up that wire. You may have to look it up. GETFPV had some for sale at one point...
All I can say is that mine work flawlessly and they cost me less than a XM+.
www.getfpv.com/jumper-r1-d16-frsky-compatible-micro-receiver-with-s-port-and-s-bus.html
I'm a proud owner of a T16, and well it' is cool. I would buy it again. and again. and ag.... .
I am literally considering to buy a Jumper now, instead of a TX9D... well done FrSky
Its probably cheaper too, so you'll have change for props and whatnot
IF it really is similar to the X10 in function then you are getting an awesome amount of value... the only thing i wouldnt like is switching to a new form factor but if i was looking at a new radio TODAY i would get the jumper of my Qx 7 for sure... this move by frsky just solidifies that decision. They should have kept their mouth shut and just allowed their considerable reputation and history of quality to speak for itself..
@@flighttherapybullisticfpv133 I will have to get used to another formfactor anyways, as I am coming off of an DX7s
@@joho6051 I havent checked its baud rate but if it can house a full size crossfire without modding i would buy one like... today lol
@@flighttherapybullisticfpv133 it can! They even advertise it
Wow. Bad move, FrSky. I don't think you could have more effectively handed Jumper your market share.
No not really. Some are not going to buy frsky now but the vast majority will continue.
@@jtroutt19 Well, maybe for a while. But try telling that to Makerbot.
Pete Dokter you really cannot compare the two. I honestly cannot believe you are trying.
@@jtroutt19 It's cool. You're not required to.
Pete Dokter yip not even gonna try either
Jumper release the T16 and people that want it will buy it.
FrSky sends out a letter, more people will buy the T16 than would of due to the tactics.
Top work!
exactly, gonna buy a t16 now and sell my qx7, thanks frsky for letting me know of the t16 XD
Perhaps a little bit of the Streisand effect here?
Its true
TBH, the first time I saw a Jumper I thought it was a Chinese pos joke just like those FlySky transmitters (I'm a stickler for build quality and they look like they'd shatter by looking at them wrong, and no I have never touched one, that is the quality of FrSky and the feel in my hands compared to my old Spektrums, makes my DX6G2 feel like a near toy). And to top it off, I considered FrSky sketchy for a bit simply due to the low price, until the QX7, and I got a QX7s with a carbon case, a zipper box/carry 'bag' and an R9X radio module on sale as the last item in stock for thanksgiving at less than the regular non sale price of the store's base model QX7 with a white case, no hall effect sensor gimbals and ONLY two position switches all around. MAN, made me give away most of my blade micros and my DX5e to a buddy who is a true helicopter hobbiest who fell on hard times. Am going to give him my DX6 soon as a surprise gift for all he has done to help me, even though he literally lost a lot of my money (long story but it's not as big of an issue as it sounds). But now I'm considering a Jumper, but am really not sure. I can literally feel the difference between the way a DSMX receiver flies and a FrSky protocol. I swear there is a difference having used different RX in the same FC. Gotta try them in helicopter FBLs to truly know if the difference is that big or that real though. I have an awesome multimodule for my Taranis, which I question the range of so it will only ever be used for micros, but is awesome to have. My DX6 does everything I _really_ need for helicopters if I ever have to use a DSM protocol RX, but I'm actually putting FrSky in all of my helis due to the low price point of quality RX. Long story short, is not only am I doubting the longevity of the Jumper TX alone, I am unsure of the native Jumper RX protocol now that I have truly felt the difference between protocols... And my reference to FlySky also has to do with it using the same protocol as RedCat (which btw, their land vehicles are pretty darn good, just being the cheapo RTF of the land vehicles, I doubt their aircraft radio signal due to it being a MUCH more serious matter. I lost signal on my Caldera 3.0 in under 500m. NOT GOOD FOR ANY AIRCRAFT BE IT A FOAMIE PLANK OR A 700 BRAIN EATING HELICOPTER.
Yep.. I'm coming back into RC after ten years out... Hearing about this _ensures_ I will _never_ buy a frsky product (if at all possible. If some drone I want only comes with a frsky receiver I could see doing that)... but I'll be using a jumper to say "up yours" =D
OpenSource for the Win! The community is bigger than the industry!
I wish we would wake up & realize that we can't have this hobby evolve without FOSS solutions on all layers.
We need FOSS firmware for VTX, Tx, Rx, ESC, Cameras, Goggles if we are to collectively decide on this field's direction.
That creates great competition for quality hardware, not gate keeping and monopolistic tactics through shitty DRM and waste of energy.
On a side note, I can't wait to see what this ACCESS "encryption" is all about, and how long before it gets totally broken...
You can't do security without peer review and especially not in closed source. #KerckhoffsPrinciple
@@RR123 If we could do something as simple as that then the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately I don't think that's ever going to happen.
KwadLife we demand competition! Make it better and cheaper and stop wining and pissing off reviewers! Lol we need him focused back on x-class! Go Ham or go home! :p
@@billster7100 well, the internet pretty much runs this way so there is hope :)
Agreed. I think Frsky is actually pushing the Jumper T16 out to more people by doing this. Free marketing.
Absolutely right;)
Jack Towne now I want one lol
I was saving money to get the TX9D, but now will get the T16 instead. Thank you frsky!
Your non biased reviews are why I keep watching. Keep up the good work Joshua. 👍
Prusa open source their 3D printer designs, but they're still making a pile of money from selling their own printers, because they're better than the derivatives coming out of China that use those open source designs. That's how you make your money with your open source products, by being better all round and offering much more, like their in-house own made filament, Prusament which is really really nice. I have a Prusa i3 Mk3 and many reels bought from them.
That's a great example. The original prusa is still top end in a sea of clones.
..agreed, it should open the product up to improvement and innovation. The first thing i 3d printed when i got mine was an I3X with dual direct drive extruders.
Prusa would be a billion dollar company if they were closed.
@@pkvillager No, they would not, because if they were closed, either someone else would have taken the leading role, or more probably, the whole segment would be far smaller than what it is today. Prusa (among many others) made what 3D printing is today, by helping building new mountains on top of other mountains, and he would'nt have had the same success if he had tried and close the segment for himself. Remember makerbot ?
I have the knock off that works great too
Nothing wrong with Jumper selling these. It's nowhere near a clone or copy. If that e-mail example is to a western company they (FrSky) could open themselves up to anti-competition laws. Abusing a dominant position, as is the case here is totally illegal here. (UK)
I don't like what Frsky have done but I am not a fan of the Jumper T16 design. Competition is necessary so better products are made and the price is kept affordable.
Hopefully Jumper can do a better x-lite soon that has a module bay that accommodates crossfire without an adaptor. 😀
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, for picking a side on this issue and for making that side known to the public. My hat's off to you, sir.
Absolutely HUGE own goal by Frsky threatening vendors like that. I feel like buying a T16 just to give Frsky the middle finger and I dont even need a new TX.
Lets all give jumper a leg ☝.
Lol, like your comment
You are a Walking Wealth of Info!! I Learn Something New Every time I Watch!! My Favorite Channel!
Haha all that frsky agression Made me buy a T16. And first impressions are awesome. This thing is gonna be huge 🎉🤩
Is it smaller than the Horus? That may make me switch over.
TheFistFPV it is. It is as wide as the x9d
Thanks Joshua! I wouldn’t have known this otherwise! I learned something today. IMO what is best for the hobby is the challenge of competition.
If you want to see someone who is dyed in the wool open source and has made himself into an industry leader then look at Josef Prusa. The 3D printer world is thriving on both open source hardware and software.
I like you Joshua for being so honest! Thank you for sharing it with us.
Only reason I would possibly buy FRsky right now would be for 2.4ghz receivers. I would bypass their controllers/tx entirely given the way they are behaving.
You nailed it with that; "mountain/ fortress" metaphor..
Great video I own the jumper t16 as well as many other radios including 3 frsky transmitter this move by frsky is a complete joke
Keep it up Joshua. This is such an important service for the RC community. Competition and code evolution is at the core of open source. We have to make sure the playing field is level at all times.
I am very proud of you to be taking a firm stance on fairness. Well done!
1st. Frsky came to RC market copy everything around, and now accusing Jumper for this nonsense. Wow. Frsky is 419.
What did they copy?
Everthing!!!!
@@WayneFlower they bought a stolen mold for their 9xd housing
Sbus was developed by futaba (thx guys) and what brand came in your mind if somebody say sbus?
@@pascalgermanfpv238 You spelled "Futaba" wrong... github.com/uzh-rpg/rpg_quadrotor_control/wiki/SBUS-Protocol
Absolutely spot on! Thanks for teaching me something new today, I think FrSky should openly welcome competition, it's much better for PR.
Jumper needs to make the JB edition with the upgrades/Changes that he suggests and I’ll buy one.
They really should to exploit this opportunity.
I agree to this. I'll buy one.
Very good idea bro, that would be epic!
Count me in.
Me too!
The best thing about the Jumper T16 is its huge compatibility with so many receivers that allows you own one radio/module and fly almost anything out there. The T16 is definitely on my radar and wish list now......
If Jumper T16 is so scary, I need it!
just started researching drones.
found you.
found the drama.
now i want a T16 just to stick it to FrSky while i practice in a simulator.
oh and you got another sub. keep up the great content!
frsky pulls a trappy... love it... more popcorn plz!
Except Trappys grievance is legitimate
Very debatable in my opinion. FrSky has not used any of TBS' code, nor have they copied their hardware design. The only thing they have done is release a competing product. TBS' claims basically amount to, "The R9 looks similar to the Crossfire Nano." I don't buy it. The circuit is not similar at all. The air protocol is inferior (IMO). If FrSky had truly "cloned" Crossfire, then R9 would be a better product than it is.
Making another 900mhz system is not cloning.
Excellent explanation! Yes, FrSky is completely out of line in this case.
Attempting to run a monopoly based on the GNU GPL is wrong, it is contrary to the whole ethos.
UNDERGROUNDFPV/FLYSKY/TBS all produce great products, with very low latency.
One of these days i will get myself a crossfire module, untill then, i am most happy with Ibus.
You put the case well Mr Bardwell.
Thanks for being vocal about this, it shows you have the interests of your followers at heart, and are committed to the hobby and the community.
Be well.
Ibus still the best protocol!
Ibus is great + it's faster
The r9 analogy is spot on. Very good video joshua
Thanks for your strong position and argument for open source. It's a superior development model, and more and more companies are discovering that fact. Open source thrives particularly well for software that isn't business differentiating, and I think OpenTX is a good example. Companies can cooperate in the development of OpenTX, and otherwise compete in all other aspects of the product. It's in both their interests that OpenTX works well, and what differentiates one radio from another isn't how well OpenTX works, but quality, function, price etc. I don't have the full story, but FrSky may feel that they have taken a disproportionate burden in the development of OpenTX, and perhaps Jumper should be expected to also contribute. If they did, FrSky could benefit from their work, and feel differently.
You look like a South Pole explorer!
I ordered a jumper t16 halls this mornong from an Amazon seller. I totally agree with your assessment, open source is open for everyone. Where would we be if our only radio choice was Spectrum or Futaba? Radios would cost us whatever they decided to charge. Competition is the only way to keep prices reasonable and to promote innovation. Thanks for a great discussion.
Isn't this exactly what TBS did to FrSky over the r9 thing? I know that my local shop in St Louis stopped selling FrSky because of it.
Pretty much. The pettiness among these transmitter manufacturers seems to know no bounds.
Yes. And somehow I cannot remember that TH-camrs jumped on that as they are doing now...
No, we just offer frsky margins to dealers who choose to carry frsky as well. They can sell both.
Actually they basically cloned the crossfire, Jumper isn't cloning anything from frsky. The strongarm tactic is however pretty much exactly what TBS did. But, albeit a bit childish to do what he did, I feel that Trappy's claim is far more valid than that of Frsky's to Jumper.
@@MrTimmyGT Can you elaborate where R9 is a clone in any way? Software is different, hardware is different. One antenna looks similar and they use the same frequency band (that TBS doesn't own, lol), that's all about similarities.
Gday jb i also was going to buy a frsky but are now going to get a jumper t16 as my first open tx radio, thanks for your vlogs.
Great video. Bad move on FrSky. I have Spektrum, FrSky and Flysky. After hearing about this I think I’m done supporting FrSky..
Im done with Frsky!
I am not. They have good products. I dont care
@@hansturpyn5455 If they get their way, eventually they would be the ONLY products you even have the option of buying. Everyone should care about this, at least a little.
You may want to rethink Spektrum then -- ask MotionRC
cjpixel I like my Flysky the best. I don’t need all the extra crap I’ll never use.
Excellent opinion. You are true to your colors and that's what matters most (at least for me). Bravo, Sir!!!
Wow Frsky are out of order. Jumper sort those gimbals and i will rock the T16, dont be bullied into submission come back stronger and battle with them, only thing i want for the T16 is hall effect gimbals.
I don't own a quad but the information you offer is always great bruh. Right On
I was not going to buy a T16. I am now :)
Stand free ! Thanks for being objective ! We defend freedom ! Keep on the good work !
That would be like a flight controller company threatening stores to pull other flight controllers because they are using betaflight...
ikr lol
My Jumper T16 Hall Effect Gimbals are on the way.
Received two left gimbals grrrrr.
Ok....lets order some t16 now...
Lovely Sir, you speak with a true heart.
Didn't TBS do something similar with there products?
exactly the same
I was looking to order an X9D but out of spite for their practices will order a Jumper T16 and I'm from the other side - country code 254. Congratulations FrSky for pissing off the whole globe.
I literally ordered Jumper T16 after this video..
Me too
Mr. Bardwell, Would you switch completely over to the jumper t16 on all your quads? Or stick to using frsky? And for any particular reason?
No, he wont, too many quads, too little time.
Joshua- you said it well; FrSky's PR person should be fired-hell they can't even use correct grammar in their threatening letter! LOL
Could they have run it through google translate first, or even just have pressed F7 :d
BoysBarn ain’t that the truth!!
First, I have been a software developer for decades (now retired). Joshua, you are spot on...the whole reason for writing Open Source code is to allow use on any hardware that will support it or designed for it. FrSky is totally wrong in what they are doing. Although I had been considering an FrSky radio and checking my options, the Jumper T16 provided more features for less money. I like the value, what you get for what it costs so I purchased a Jumper T16 and am very happy with it. Besides cost, the other main reason that I bought the Jumper T16 was the multi-protocol module which works great with my Bayang tiny whoops and also works great with my EMAX Tinyhawk Freestyle which has an FrSky receiver. Thanks.
This is blackmailing and i don't want that FrSky get away with it.
I got a Jumper T8 and will eventually buy a new one with hall-gimbals. No need for FrSky !
Thank you. This is exactly my thoughts and you found the right words to fairly describe what FrSky is trying to pull off here. "Bullying" is a word I would have used and this is a huge problem if it is the market leader who does it. I will remember this if I need to buy my next radio or long range system or recommend one to others.
So glad I have Spektrum as my primary radio. Jumper looks to be a nice second radio... screw Frsky .. hypocrites!!!
Thanks for the video JB. This explains why I'm having trouble finding it in Getfpv and RDQ.
Well... Two comments. First, now I want to buy a T16. Second, we need a real independent fork of OpenTX.
Once GPLed, it is almost impossible to legal close the source, even for a fork.
You would have to rewrite the whole firmware only using OpenTX loose loosely as inspiration...
@@riongronberg1435 Wait, what? 😳
I'm talking about independence from any companies.
I didn't say a thing about closed or open source.
Oh, I see what you mean. That makes a lot more sense. Sorry for the confusion!
@@riongronberg1435 Don't worry, dude. It's all good. 😊
remember their new radio 9xlite is also access protocol only with encryption, makes for a nice garden wall lock in
My FrSky X9D looks very similar to a JR radio transmitter I used to have back in the day. hmmmm. Also, even though I love FrSky, I would call them on a bluff if I was a distributor of theirs.
haha. the FrSky X9E looks similar to the Jeti Duplex 2.4EX and the Horus X12 looks similar to the Jeti DS12
Solid breakdown. Joshua is the homeoboiiii
And I was this() close to buying a QX7. Now checking out the T12 instead.
Buy the black one (the "V2" or "plus"). I use it with a R9M module attached, definitely good value for money and winning form factor.
Same here@Ted Ingalls .
An easy solution for a remarkable result
Even though I own an X-Lite and don't need another radio at this time, I am glad to hear you chose to keep supporting Jumper. What FrSky is doing kind of sounds like bullying... In my opinion, the way FrSky should fight this is to make a better radio than the T16 and price it competitively.
they do have a radio that is comparable to the T16, but just not the price
Stores should band together and collectively refuse to sell FrSky products if ANY store is cutoff by FrSky.
"Evil succeeds when good men do nothing." It's true in retail, just as it is in politics.
jyunte was this your position when tbs did the same thing?
@@jtroutt19 I'm new to the (quad-flying) hobby, so wasn't around for it, and didn't hear about it. But yes, that would be my position.
jyunte doesny surprise me honestly that you havnt heard about it. It wasn’t that long ago but people for some reason like to swing off trappys nuts. Must be made of gold or something. The double standard in this hobby is amazing. Well no i guess society is one big double standard anymore
Thank you for being brave enough to explain that. I understand it would have been much easier to not cover that story. Please let your subscribers know if you do indeed get any special treatment from FrSky as I would like to think you have 100,000+ subscribers that would have your back.
Hey Streisand! Can we borrow your effect for a little while?
How many people are going to look at Jumper BECAUSE of this letter?
Bought my first real radio, and probably will be my only radio just a week or two ago. Jumper T8sg carbon. I like it quite a bit. I modified the position of the switches a little and some other things because I can never leave something alone.. But knowing I didn't buy a frsky, (in large part because of this video) and they are probably reading this... gives me the warm and fuzzies. 🤗
@Joshua Bardwell we thank you for what you do, it is very much appreciated!
a letter for banggood 😁
I totally agree with you, probably with out the attitude of FrSky, never had one T16, got it true eBay.
KababFPV has a good video on this with a bit more information, well worth a look.
You are soooo incredibly right. Well done. Thank you. My next radio will be T16....
Hi Anthony, I've got a T16, and I love it !!!
I don't care two squats about the T-16 (like most big radios it's an answer to a question I didn't ask), but what FrSky is doing is straight up BS, and it is wrong, and I hope it backfires. Unfortunately it's not illegal, and while I can't reasonably move all my gear away from FrSky now, I can stop recommending them to others (One big FrSky vendor told me recently they got into FrSky based on recommendations and stories I told about my FrSky usage). I can also inform people about how sleazy they have become.
This video came out in May, and I have been watching with great interest where the T16 has been headed. It is now Sept and yesterday I ordered a T16. My decision was fueled after having received 3 "bad batch" R9MM receivers from my chosen FrSky dealer. So; 3 failed receivers, a QX7 radio that has to be modded to get Crossfire to work, FrSky's attempts at strong arming dealers... All of this is enough for me to tell FrSky that they get no more of my money. I will be putting all of my FrSky stuff on the used market and will be switching to a Jumper/Crossfire setup. This is OUR hobby guys, lets not let un-ethical business practices prevail in it. It cheapens the industry, and lessens us as end users if we support those that would bring those un-ethical practices into it. Kudos to Ready Made RC and others for sticking to their guns and not being strong armed or selling out to FrSky.
I feel bad for FrSky for even slightly thinking that the UGLY UGLY jumper would resemble anything FrSky makes.
I had to replace my almost dead Taranis QX7. I was conisdering the X9D because of crossfire incompatibility of QX7 (I was not happy to discover that and I am pretty sure it's done on purpose).
You video and Kabab's one convinced me: I have ordered the T16 only to promote competition. I have already done that with AMD porcessor in place of Intel.
you wouldnt be disappointed. i was using the x9d until it is dead and ordered a T16. best choice and also supremely affordable.
This is just another reason for me to stick with flysky. Saving up for a nirvana.
Buy the underground fpv version and
Yep. I stuck with Flysky 3 years. Finally got a Nirvana a few months ago. So happy I held out.
That's awesome. Flysky does some great stuff. Like a reciever that has holes to blot it in place.
Great radio. Get UFPV version. Of HeliNation like me. Good firmware + extra set of springs
Better stay away from anything which name starts with F and ends with SKY
I ordered a T16 from SN Hobbies, I'll have it by Thursday. :) Stoked
FrSky can go and fester for their handling of this, wont be purchasing any of their products no matter what.
They have made my mind up for me when buying a new tx.
didn't know what one to buy,now the t16 leaps ahead,
Frsky got more drama then both my baby mommas
I really wish the multi protocol module was internal on the T16, really like the remote but do not want to remove my CSFR every time I want to run one of my other Rx protocol quads, any chance of them doing that in the future I wonder?
I'm officially shocked by FrSky's practices now. They cloned my SPRacingF3 schematic for their first F3 flight controllers and now they want to stop other people cloning! Talk about pot calling the kettle black...
This makes me want to buy a Jumper T16 even more now!
FrSky, I suggest you concentrate on making good products that people want and not on underhanded business practices.
lols right!! leave this kinda shit to TBS ;D
Thanks for speaking up on this issue Josh.
I definitely do not agree with FrSky on their decision. Overall, it does come down to corporate/money BS, so in a way I understand. But, in no way, do I agree. FrSky, get your panties back in line. Your supporters would continue to be your supporters (i.e. me), if you just played fair. I had no intentions of buying a T16, but stuff like this will make peoples' (including mine's) opinions change rather quickly. Jumping ship to TBS time?
Tbs did the same thing to frsky with there r9m... trappy did the same.. but yet people..including barfwell here and most the other commenters still probly have crossfire
@@huh4tofpv384 1. TBS and FrSky are huge compared to Jumper. So FrSky just could react to TBS with a massive price cut. 2. The R9M still has al long way to go to be as good as Crossfire. Trappy/TBS keeps innovating.
I completely agree!!
Thanks for trying to keep them honest, buddy. Someone has to. :)
Frsky now sounds like the company that communities love to hate
Thank you JB you are one of the best reviewer.. your so honest to all your video and not bias like the others.. i learn something today..
Frsky did a lot of good to the hobby anf I had a good image of them for that. But when I see that it kinds of ruins it. Reading all the comments do believe a streisand effect could come from that "frsky thinks the t16 is dangerous for their market share? Must be a great product then!"
Beat me to it 😆
Already saw a video on the T16, now I want one even more.
There was enough market for them to both coexist. I don't like what FrSky did, but it seems disingenuous to support Jumper as well, from my point of view. I am a FrSky user, formerly Spektrum and before that Futaba but initially Airtronics, so I have been through the transmitter mill for a long time, and it takes a lot to get me to "jump" ship. I'm curious how well Jumper will support the Open TX fork for their radios? *I guess I am asking where will the innovation come from in the future from, OpenTX or JumperTX?* Basically, will JumperTX just copy the work of the OpenTX team? To me, it's like BetaFlight and ButterFlight, and where has that gone to these days?
While I understand the anger many have for FrSky trying to strong arm vendors and while I agree it's just plain wrong. I can't in all fairness just abandon FrSky for a couple of hasty actions against a competitor. *I am betting on OpenTX, as they earned my respect through all of the fine work we all enjoy.* Jumper can copy the crap out of it, as there's nothing to stop them, but there's room for all of them in this growing hobby.
*Those of us about to Fly, salute all of you that make it possible.* To quote an infamous American: *"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?"*
I appreciate if you want to support FrSky because of their contributions to the project. I think that FrSky has absolutely earned your support. But we have to always remember that the GPL explicitly allows and in fact encourages companies like Jumper to "just copy the work" of the OpenTX team. If the OpenTX team wasn't okay with that, they shouldn't have used the GPL license when they started their project.
@@JoshuaBardwell Even more, they shouldn't have embraced an already existing GPL licensed project...
@@JoshuaBardwell - What do you see as possible outcomes from this fiasco?
@@thesfreader3068 - Would you please expand on what you meant? I'm not sure I understand if you are referring to FrSky or OpenTX. Thank you.
@@frankbarajas I mean (if I understand correctly how it went) OpenTX existed before FrSky used it and employed someone from its team. (Did I get that wrong ?) JB said (in his just previous comment) that FrSky should'nt have used the GPL license for their project if they weren't ok with other people using their work. My intervention was tjust a resay of JB's Fortress/Mountain comparison and that FrSky created their products based on the efforts of outside contributors, they reaped the benefits of the license and now seem to cry foul on anyone that does the same...
Is the argument Frsky has based on the firmware Jumper is using, or the multi-protocol capabilities of the inclsuded module? I haven't been paying too much attention to this issue, but it reminds me of the Spektrum Vs OrangeRx saga of days past. That battle was over the use of Spektrums proprietary DSMX protocol, and it seems to me that Frsky would have a perfectly reasonable case on that front.
You wont find an FrSky in my hands now. I am a Spektrum guy but have been thinking of going to an OpenTx environment. It will NOT be FrSky now.
The Nirvana looks nice - by the people, for the people.
It’s all about the people 😀
Does the Jumper come Streisand Effect gimbals?
Nice. Oh how sweet sauce would it be for Jumper to come out with a "Streisand model". Just a little cartoon drawing of her on the front or something would be awesome... Or better yet just name the whole model after her in huge bold letters. Maybe I need to find a sticker of her for the back of mine 😂 lol.
Well, I was needing a new radio and was kinda on the fence between these two companies .... not anymore.
my pro version (with hall effect gimbals and internal module) just arrived and out of the box it just feels friggin amazing
Just canelled my FrSky order and ordered a Jumper instead.
The frsky was probably a better radio though...
Hahahaha
@@FPV-wi8fw Honestly it seems like the Jumper T16 is actually better then the X9D
@@liamhaddon7526 meh we will only know if it's better in a few years time. The x9d has been proven to be reliable, I'll wait and see if the the t16 is good or just more hype
@@FPV-wi8fw Absolutely true
I'm using my Horus with their own developed fr os system. I like it that way. Frsky products like telemetry modules, redundancy bus, Gas suite, etc cost time & money to develop. Also customer support, who have always been helpful. It called a company building product confidence. Having been in Hi Fi retail, I had accounts with , for example, Pioneer, but not Sony. You had specific dealerships with whom you built a relationship and had good support from. The likes of Comet Wharehouse ( remember them!!) tried to flog everything cheap and failed!!
I can understand Frsky being pissed with dealers who try to sell products from rivals.
Hmm..it’s almost as if FrSky doesn’t like being copied.
HMMMMMM
When is the T16 Plus (hall gimbals) going to be released? I'm ready to buy the T16 Plus or a X9D Plus now.