then Tesla beat Edison with ac vs dc. what ur modern world would be without tesla...this guy take not so much money that he can be expect just for make this real !! a lesson for all non open source maker...
@@404ErreuR404 Whats the lesson? That if you want to create things to help humanity you'll be persecuted by every major business enterprise out there and end up dying penniless and alone in a room full of inventions you have know way of getting to the world because any attempt at a loan or backing is met with a big fuck you because your goal isn't to exploit people's needs to make a profit? Corporations and the men who run them destroy all sense of humanity in pursuit of the almighty dollar. Nikola Tesla was one of if not the greatest mind to ever live and should be an American hero (even if he wasn't born here) but, they rarely teach you about him in school here while Edison is made out to be the modern inventor of electricity. It's a bit conspiracy theorist of me but, I think it's because Tesla wasn't conducive to "the American dream" something about free electricity to all and working almost solely for the betterment of humanity doesn't fit very well in our society. Well that was a bit of a rant haha. RIP Tesla at least now days he's getting some of the credit he deserves. I mean for Christs sake he literally had a patent for almost everything we think of as modern technology from wireless communication be it T.V. radio or even the internet to drones and laser defense systems.
Table of Contents: 01:02 - Jumper T16 recommended 04:00 - FrSky is a PUBLICLY traded company!! 05:37 - FrSky's ridiculous threat letters Link to the entire FrSky threat letter: bit.ly/2HgghMR 07:39 - Discussion of copy/clones 11:35 - Minor analysis of FrSky's letter 13:17 - OpenTx on FrSky's side? 16:25 - Branding over innovation? 17:29 - GoPro as an example Link to the entire FrSky threat letter: bit.ly/2HgghMR FrSky things I will be reviewing soon: New radio: bit.ly/30cma6m R9 module: bit.ly/2Heypry R9 Rx: bit.ly/305csCO Like I said, the industry doesn't really care so I'm still going to be reviewing select FrSky products if they're interesting. If they're copies of others, they're likely going to be inferior so nothing to worry about... Good luck trying to find a Jumper T16. They're typically sold out anywhere you look and FrSky has restricted banggood from selling it. Equipment I highly recommend: Micro Eagle - goo.gl/or1fS9 Rush Tank Vtx - goo.gl/YMYmya Fantastic solder- amzn.to/2P5QM2W TS100 iron - goo.gl/DqBipa goo.gl/svK6DD amzn.to/2OV5XMh WaFL’s Cap Cap bit.ly/2GUpXxO Xing 2306: goo.gl/TT9gnw, amzn.to/2VkZ8rt Flywoo 2306: goo.gl/xuLG6d Hold off on 220X motors for now. There is a bug in BLheli/BF that makes them act a little weird unfortunately. :-( Sub $200 5" build that's still good: Frame: goo.gl/EpXQhZ FC/4in1 Stack: goo.gl/HprVbj Motors: goo.gl/h5rofi Props: goo.gl/ZnzY2y Props: goo.gl/VMBiQh FPV Cam: goo.gl/FDJhYw Vtx: goo.gl/JNVDMn Starter goggles I recommend: goo.gl/GvJUkT Tips? PayPal: www.paypal.me/kababfpv Please use my referral code if you're gonna buy a Tesla. You get some free stuff when you do and I get better status with Tesla: ts.la/bob40889 Bitcoin: 1E4XZXoD4rS6MYWVWuenY7Kw2M1YgyNpoQ Nano: xrb_1188ek5bd7tb9kw67asnp9o65byuoaxbtpxuznx1ribf75x78awywmakj55f ETH: 0xD067F93811f2eC31CB1928901002dfdf9A492EF5 LTC: La2KWYAjp4VT2Lq2M76pbjzXWvRyjpfCtG
Jumper t16 looks like the love child of spectrum/ futaba scroll spectrum, body futaba layout, open tx from open source code! Do Linux own open tx? Frsky are ripping of consumers! T16 is not a clone it is a blend of the best of many controllers! For a way better price point,! Ersky project was ripped the make open tx! Frsky is overpriced and they should have helped with the Nirvana tx as the build quality on the Nirvana beats anything I have held by Frsky!
What happened to your radio?? When it will be out for sale?? Is it a big radio like jumper or x9d?? Does it have module bay?? Which protocol will it run??
@@mehulanand8623 still working on it. The people I'm working with have been extravagantly delayed and challenging. It's beyond my control at this point. However the light Innovation I bring to the product is unlikely to be replicated before my controller unless another company sees it and steals it so I'm not super worried
They did. And I tried to find a way to make old Taranis relevant and it has just turned into such a pain in the ass. The radio is first gen and updated TX firmware to use a multi module just sucks. The idea of buying a radio and being able to upgrade firmware was a joke. FrSky just wants me to buy a whole new Taranis plus se radio. I ordered a Jumper T16 instead
I wanted to get a new radio too, all I had was a spektrum radio, and a lot of bind and fly models were frsky, so I was definitely thinking of getting a new frsky transmitter, and then I saw jumper t16, and was all set to get it. I hesitated at getting it, and I’m glad i didn’t, because then came the jumper t16 pro, which is what I ended up getting, and boy am I glad I did.
The issue is separating patent and copyright issues. So for example the 1:1 copies of frames like the chameleon or the reverb are a problem because they are actual 1:1 copies. A Wizard is not a 1:1 copy of the alien. If Armattan PATENT a carbon frame with 4 arms then that is an entirely different issue. Copyright should be enforced, Patents only hurt the community. For example in the Paint Ball , how pneumatics worked in a paintball gun were pretty standard, without going into too much details many guns on the market worked in a very similar fashion using a solenoid to drive a bolt back with pressurized air. A relatively new company came onto the market, got a patent for how the pneumatics work in their guns(which just so happened to be how other companies also powered thier guns). This CRIPPLED the industry at the time. I, so disappointed in FrSky over this i was ready to sell my qx7 and buy a jumper or futaba since i use xfire now anyway.
Dude, I agree with you 100% on most of what you said... But not about Crossfire vs R9. The question is: Crossfire is 100% LoRa chips. Chips you can buy from lots of companies and there are even LoRa modules for Arduino... And there are people who created homemade transmitters and receivers using Arduino and LoRa... Only the frequency (800~900mHz) that you can choose. The rest is the firmware. And that is different from all of them. You know? 😉 Anyway, TBS was wrong about it and now FrSky is making the exactly same mistake. What is stupid. 😕
Like I said, people will agree or disagree. Doesn't matter. There will never be a consensus but if you ask me, it looks the same, same exact antenna design, same exact materials.....you can't unsee something that's good to be original. FrSky would have NEVER EVER come up with that antenna design if they hadn't seen it first. It's not as logical and straight forward if you've never seen it...
@@Kabab Well, there are lots of micro RX over there. Even FlySky has some. XM, XM+, R-XSR... It's nothing new. The only common things between Crossfire and R9 are the LoRa modules, the frequency (like 2.4Ghz - no one owns that) and a freaking dipole antenna. There's no copy here. A copy would be if FrSky used the same firmware... Exactly where they're losing right now.
Great explanation of this mess Bob I think FrSky are also butt hurt as the colour screen and better UI is one of their biggest tools for segmenting the premium controllers from the lower end controllers. The increase in BOM cost to incorporate the better screen etc is pretty small compared to the difference in RRP for the X10 vs the X9D. By releasing a lower priced controller with a colour screen and the nice UI Jumper has effectively broken FrSkys very profitable product segmentation model. Getting their panties in a knot over it is SOOO HYPOCRITICAL of them though considering the way they consistently use price to try to break competitors. As for OpenTX, it would be amazing if a group of talented developers were to fork OpenTX and make a well maintained and truly open version of it. I'm surprised that more of the devs aren't copping heat for the way the project is currently working. FrSky have basically taken over of the project. It's really sad and not at all in the spirit of open source.
this hobby is expensive and i thank my career which is what keeps me in it and videos like yours. thanks for the knowledge and all you do for the hobby...
The junper t16 is running a fork of opentx which is an open source project and frsky is complaining about an company which is using the open source stuff Tf is wrong with 'em Retailers and sellers of the jumper t16 stay strong! ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ You are doing something wrong in my opinion by removing the t16... Sorry that i had to say...
Ridiculous threat, just like Trappy did to them last year, now that’s them who send letters^^ Boohoo, some other Chineses copied us! But we are Chineses, we are used to copy, not to be copied! GTFO
@@ezracer yes and no. our threats were aimed at dealers selling the knockoffs at a lower margin than TBS stuff. dealers basically made no money and this skewed the market to our disadvantage (on products that were copies of ours no less). If TBS had to compete and match margins we would literally kill most of the smaller dealers out there. so our "threat" to protect small dealers was mischaracterized by people who have personal feelings towards TBS. although the letter was written in rage and was way out of line. fun fact: Jumper offers twice the margin that FrSky does.
Well, for one thing, this was a very interesting video and for another, it does bring out some controversy, that many of us were unaware. A little controversy is a good thing as it can inspire conversation. So good job and what a great "OpEd" piece this was! I always value your opinions. However, the one question I have left is will OPEN TX be supporting Jumper Transmitters or not? From what I can see on the OPEN TX website they are not listed as supported radios. That doesn't bode well in my mind, so I'll pass on any Jumper OPEN TX products until they are listed.
why? if jumper have forked then jumper support it, it has nothing to do with the opentx people or FRsky (who seem to be attempting a morally dubious way of controlling open source) personally I would stay away from frsky
Regarding the "you can't unsee that good idea", R.E.M. once had that problem with the Hope song from their Up album. Leonard Cohen was given co-songwriting credit for Hope because of the similarities in melody & lyrical pattern to his Suzanne song.
Seems too me taranis sold to many xd9's and got a BIGHEAD in the process!! I know taranis is also hurt because alot of youtubers and non youtubers like the jumper more and switched!! I'm stick to my xd9 just cuz I've only used the spektrum and like my xd9 more in most ways!! The jumper does look nice tho with that screen!! Also you better always keep posting sick videos & keeping us in the fpv loop!! I enjoy ur content and flying skills bro!!
Wow...Frysky king of copy says don't copy them and are at the same time coming out with the X9 lite that looks very similar to Jumper's T12 in shape and size. Apparently stealing ideas are only ok if Frysky does it. I Love my Jumper T12 Plus. I don't even need the Jumper T16, but might get one after Frskys behavior.
About the importance of Branding over Innovation; it is an almost unavoidable effect of an open market. On a open market, the price of an item is decided by two factors alone: how cheap someone is willing to sell a certain product for and how much someone is willing to pay for it. This means that items don't have an innate "fair" price, if people are prepared to pay a certain price for an item and a supplier is prepared to sell it at that price then that is what the item is worth. Another important thing to understand is that even though we do believe we are making rational decisions based on logic and facts, we mostly don't. We make decisions almost entirely based on emotions, including the decision on what we are willing to pay for something. Now, as a company, if you want to be able to charge a higher price for something, that can be done only by getting potential customers to accept on an emotional level to pay that higher price. And while innovative features and an impressive tech sheet will have an impact, there are way more effective ways of managing people's emotional response to a product, which is where branding and marketing comes in. It''s simply more efficient most of the time to get people to accept a price using smart marketing than producing a better product. There are only two ways this could change: Either we somehow manage to alter the way human beings make decisions, or we abolish free competition on a free market. In reality though, none of this is bound to happen, rather, with better and better understanding of the human mind and how it can be influenced combined with ever more intelligent analysis algoritms working on ever growing sets of data on people we are rapidly approaching a future where it will be so easy to influence us that we might no longer be able to trust our own decision making, and where marketing will be everything.
I saw a comparason of these two radios internally and even the insides dont even kind of look the same. With these threats to businesses with no proof and far from looking the same. I wont ever consider FRSky for a radio. Sad that they do obvious copping of other company tech. Bad forum frsky.
If youre going to give credit to inventors that are important to our hobby, how about some credit to Hedy Lamarr who invented frequency hopping. Were would we be without that.
I followed FrSky's business practices only superficially but I firmly believe in rewarding companies with good practices. So your video helped me decide where to go from the radio protocol I use today which is FrSky's ACCST. Spoiler: It won't be R9M (or ACCESS).
Just for the sheer nerve that frsky has, retailers should send a letter back to them stating: You know what? Do not ever send us another radio again and take us off your list."
I sometimes wonder if I've been transported from an alternate universe where Tesla is well know. I keep hearing Tesla is forgotten but I also remember growing up thinking Tesla was really famous. In my universe, Tesla even has the unit of magnetic field strength named after him. It's too bad this universe has forgotten such an important person. Now I just need to figure out how to return to the universe where Tesla is famous. Edit: Thanks for sharing the letter from FrSky.
Much like Edison publicly tortured animals to try and show how 'bad' Tesla's AC electricity was, I wouldn't be surprised if FrSky made a video showing how easy drones crash if you use a Jumper TX...
Hello from Croatia, when Nikola Tesla was a young boy he petted his cat than came in the house from outside where a storm with rain/thunder was.He then saw sparks as he petted the moist cat fur with his hand. this sparked the intrest in him for all the amazing things hes done. P.S.Good video on this topic Bob!
What really amuses me about this is the fact a hobby shop in the UK told me that TBS did a similar threat to them about the crossfire clone, the r9m. It wouldn’t surprise me if the English speaking part you mentioned was cribbed from a Trappy rant. My feeling on the clone subject is that if it’s better than the original, ofc people will buy it. “Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door”
No source but the stories of the purchase are equally unverified. I've even heard that they bought the moulds from someone that stole them. In the end, it looks identical and it didn't need to. They have never explained otherwise and it's been an accusation from the beginning. For a company that is 'inspired' by many things, it's hard to believe they paid for them. Speaking of which, the inside of the x9d is apparently the same as the hobbyking turnigy 9x of whatever.
Along similar lines of how market value has become virtually dependent on branding - another huge problem in technological innovation now is the vehement brand loyalty. Phones are great example of this. There are large demographics that will 100% refuse to consider a certain phone because it's not an "X". So when a phone comes out that could result in a paradigm shift it can still fail even if it's innovative and better in every way just because consumers brand loyalty doesn't allow them to evaluate other options. And so for most companies innovation must take a back seat to branding most of the time. Unfortunate
This is why I’m selling ALL my R9 gear and QX7 from Frsky and I WILL be getting this T16 with either Crossfire or Dragonlink if DL is possible to work with T16. May even go EZUHF who knows! Point is this opened my eyes
With all industries operating at levels well above many consumer’s understandings many people automatically are drawn to what they know or have seen or have heard of. Hence power of brand image. Thanks for bringing these issues up as the only way to alert people to them is to discuss them. Aside from word of mouth or social trends, online video reviewers seem to be the people with the most power here. I feel bad for Tesla too, I think Edison tried very hard to diminish his achievements.
My Taranis X9D is getting old and I’ve been thinking about a replacement. Frsky have done nothing to develop the X9D but have extended their range of TXs. The Q7 does not have sliders which I need while the 10 is more than I need and more expensive. So they have lost the pace in innovation or copying. Their threatening action has put me off the company so Jumper is at the top of my list.
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Great video that raises some good points. All of the FrSky antics lately just left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm strongly thinking to just move my radio gear to another brand and just show frsky the middle finger. Or maybe I just dust off my Radiolink AT10 II and start using it again, if only it had a JR bay for a Crossfire module.
I hope this is the death knell for FRSKY. I would want all the retailers to collectively take their letter, tell them to piss off and start carrying Jumper radios and receivers. I use Crossfire now so my FRSKY receivers are slowly being replaced. If Deviation properly supported Crossfire I never would've needed an OpenTX radio(T12). So I'll keep my Jumpers and even add to the lineup.
@@goingcrazy00 maybe not so much R9 anymore...they ganked that from TBS so I think the industry should go to war with such a boldly hypocritical company. I wish I could afford to switch to Futaba.
Deviation does support CRSF (X-Fire) and PXX (R9) for half a year now. Just modded my old Devo 7E. :D As far as I can see Deviation even supporting the Flex firmware wich is pretty much alpha in Open TX.
FPV is the only industry I know of where the consumers are so heavily involved in the business dealings of the suppliers/retailers.. interesting to see how it works out.. free market baby!
It's just just FPV. It's every industry. Just like every other industry, there are many people that are heavily involved and many many more that are oblivious. Just how it is...
KababFPV not true.. FPV has way more users involved than not! Only place where almost every end user with a youtube account is involved with and even lays eyes on these types of IP letters and cease and desists.. ie flightone raceflight drama ie helio ie RR/rdq business dealings.. there is so much information that is typically unavailable elsewhere... I think it’s because the relationship between companies and influencers is WAY closer than that of other industries
@@MaxBeamer so I'm pretty sure that flight one sells several tens of thousands worth of flight controllers a month consistently. The number of potential customers on Facebook and TH-cam and Instagram or maybe only 50000? when you realize that most of these companies are selling many many thousands of dollars worth of product each month oh, I don't know if a number as small as 50,000 is enough to support so many companies. I think that the market that is not on Instagram or Facebook is many times larger. We just don't see it. this particular industry was pretty much born on TH-cam so it would make sense for a larger percentage of the consumers to be on these platforms. however maybe that's just the initial development and as the industry progresses more and more mainstream people that aren't on computers as much become involved. I think we have already exited that initial growth and are slowly but surely moving into more mainstream. But it is still very difficult to gauge the market size
It is very obvious that FrSky has been extremely anticompetitive in the past year or so. Unfortunately their branding is so strong in this community that the majority of pilots are choosing to look the other way, continue to use their products and even strongly suggest them to new pilots. It would be so much better for the hobby if there were a little more real competition in this space where the likes of UndergroundFPV, FlySky, TBS, and others could all have enough of the market that they could survive and try to out innovate each other instead or resorting to these anticompetitive tactics.
Yeah like I said, the market isn't aware nor does it care. It is what it is and the innovators get screwed and are left looking for ways to protect themselves or they just stop.
Well Tesla is born in Austro-Hungaria and he did most of his work in US. But before that he studied in austrian university. Anyway for all those who dont care about FrSky fury, simple solution is to get Tx wich cost you less money. And competition is a good thng, because otherwise you will have to buy 500€ device if you want to fly.
Tesla emigrated an d lived in the US. Had labs in New York City, Colorado Springs, and Long Island. The corner of 6th an 40th in NYC is named after him. He lived in a building there in his old age. Great man!
Hey Kabab, great job of acknowledging Tesla's work. He was one of the greatest scientists of the 20th century who spent a big part of his life working in the USA, and gave a world a lot of inventions. Certainly, if not for him there will be no AC, and the world will probably be tangled up in the cables of Edison's DC. On the other side, I'm a FrSky user but this is not the good business policy and it is bad for the hobby in many ways. The people should be aware of FrSky's doings. Thanks for the video.
Ahh, the politics of FPV and the internal conflicts of Chinese companies. Because I found this interesting it makes me wonder if I've gotten in way too deep in this hobby. A lot of the people who get upset about this didn't even bother voting in the last presidential election!
i remember frksy bought the mold to another company called "king..." i cant remember the full name, since the mold is expensice, i dont know how much it cost, like 30 or 40k, they just bought it already done to make the radios, but yes, its a copy, not a steal from the JR, it has some differences,
Cloning the cloner who has cloned other products...that's how they got ahead. The gentle you mentioned in the video is original and needs to be recognized...he was the only inventer in this field...There can only be one! Awesome review!
As you said, there just isn't much innovation going on in multi rotors. Just a bunch of people making copies of everyone else's stuff. We need something new and exciting to hit the market, not endless supplies of ESCs and FCs and motors that now are all pretty much the same thing and the same quality.
there are two very innovative groups I regularly talk to that have some pretty insane tech that they're not bothering with anymore because of the copy issue...
That letter is illegal in its own right, threatening a dealer to withdraw their account because they’re stocking a competitors product breaks anti-competition rules. But as they’re in China I guess they don’t care as they pretty much ignore International trade rules or recognise them. As long as we as end users keep buying their products, they’ll keep making them by any means necessary; Cheaper labour, poor working and environmental practices, so in some respects we’re just as responsible?
One of the OpenTX developers is a full time employee of FRSKY. Anyone can personally develop and fork OpenTX to another piece of hardware so I don't know how anyone can stand in the way of development ?
If you want actual OpenTX support and updates from OpenTX, you need to pay them. Even if you pay them, they won't actually do anything for AGES because I'm pretty sure FrSky controls a lot of what's going on at OpenTX. We've forked it and are making our own. We don't care for the updates anymore because OpenTX is probably going to be replaced by something else sometime soon anyway.
@@Kabab it is up to you what you do once you fork it but all the updates are available to reintegrate into your fork. I still don't understand your argument, I don't condone any of frsky recent behaviour regarding the new access txs and jumper because it is anti-competitive. Once you get a big market share the corporate culture sets in. All I can say is vote with your wallet.
Maybe we need some innovation on economic models to stimulate innovation, rewarding innovators, securing the distribution of innovations to those who will benefit from them and to prevent the need and desire for seemingly pointless things such as "branding"?
@@Kabab hmm. That is kind of on hk then. Thought the hypocracy can't be ignored. I dunno. Fortunately I'm too poor to do anything but just keep my qx7 so I don't have to worry about making purchasing decisions on principle:)
Depending what "Chinese" you're referring to. The Chinese language does have a word for hypocrisy, and it means so much in places like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, etc. There are quite some "bad Chinese" in the Mainland China, because their government makes sure bad people get successful and good people stay in jails. Never to forget that one of the biggest reasons why the communist party became so powerful, is that many administrations from the western wold ALLOW it to do all the bad things and pretend nothing happened, so that they can make money by doing business with the communists.
@@ivanwong8361 Now the west is responsible for communism, nice! I was of course being sarcastic. The only ones allowing the communist party to become so powerful are the people of China. It's not so simple as just refusing to do business with a country because you don't like their politics, millions of Chinese workers would be out of work if the west cut off trade. I would simply not buy so many brushless motors, no big deal for me.
Oh so these countries do business with China because they worry about Chinese workers out of job? Nice. Why don’t they worry about those in North Korea? This is exactly what 偽善 means.
This video needs to go viral, as much as I like FrSky products , this is just childish of them to threaten retailers , rather than just making a better product to compete in the market.............
That's exactly the point. They have ZERO imagination or innovation so all they can do is fight back people that can do what they do.....because they're not special in any way at all.
@@LOWKEEFPV I'll give it a good home. By the way - Don't drop that Jumper-- Where you going to get parts for it? Oh by the way, from an honest Jumper dealer: Note: Jumper currently doesn't have FCC certification for the radios. We and other stores can't legally ship these to US customers until there is an official FCC Part 15 certification and proper labeling on the radios. Guess what, they can't FCC that thing legally. No multi-module can pass FCC. AMA insurance is no good if you are flying with illegal RF. Opps!
Wayne Flower Nice Im in Australia drop the jumper lol dropping my transmitter isn’t an issue for me I use a neck strap. Ohh you mentioned FCC yeah I won’t need a module so there is no need for the FCC my crossfire will be removed from the X9D and fit straight into the Jumper . Oops! 😬
BTW: Yes, banggood and gearbest do not have the jumper T16 listed anymore. But aliexpress and a lot of others still have. ;-) I am now thinking about buying a jumper and selling my FrSky. But as someone already said maybe it´s a hoax? I am always skeptical...
I understand what your saying Bob...I personally use Spektrum but I used to Own JR Radios before they Shut Down... I have known all along FrSky took the X9D from a cloned JR XP9303 just added Open TX and Sold F tones of a copied 2005 developed radios! pretty sad cuz i loved JR ,and they shut down from hits like this.. I refuse to ever use anything FRSky developed. I know people need an affordable system but damn.. I am an irrigation tech i do not make $hT loads of money by any means and I know I can go in any hobby store and make payments on a decent Radio.. most places have 90 day layaway....for real.... I am willing to spend my hard earned dollar on a quality product! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, they are important.
46 seconds in and i had to mention that it was not that long ago that the American government and science institution overturned the recognition of Marconi being the inventor of radio in favour of Tesla.
IMO, reverse engineering and "cloning" arrangements of off the shelf parts (ARM professor, caps, resistors, etc) is fair game. Frsky has no proprietary ICs in it's radios to my knowledge. Also, OpenTX is open source, anyone can fork it and use it. That's that "stealing" it like some clowns on RCgroups have been saying.
According to the GNU license for OpenTX you have some requirements that must be met to use Fork OpenTX. Jumper is not doing this. Funny thing is it would be easy for them to do it.
@@WayneFlower That may be the case, but reality is that when you open source, it's out there. Now, this is just MY OPINION, but placing conditions on open source is not open at all.
@@WillThat It is a requirement of ANY OpenSource software that source code must be made available. It is what makes OpenSource OPEN. Otherwise you have a commercial business like Jumper stealing the software. It is that simple. Jumper are the ones that are in the wrong, that is why the OpenTX team is asking them to do the right thing. It really is not that difficult.
This is serious harassment tactics on FrSky's part. Honestly that is shady abusive business practices. All FrSky achieves by sending out letters like that is assure I don't really ever want to buy from them again. If they wanted to do it the right way they should have taken Jumper to court and figured it out there. NOT bully their vendors. Honestly bad, shady abusive business behavior. To redeem itself in my eyes FrSky will need to send out an apology letter to its vendors retracting its request for them to remove the Jumper T16 radio. It will also need to make a public statement to the same tune. At that point FrSky can feel free in my eyes to take Jumper to a US court and challenge them. I would find that completely acceptable and understandable. The right way.
20:00 Strong competition on the market is in the best interest of employees, because if your company don't want you to pay enough or you will just stop liking your company you can go work for competitors. This apply also to high level mangers. So if you as high level manager, trying to put your competitor out of market, one day you may end in a miserable company or became unemployed with no good options for new deployment. Some set of skills are very specific of specific markets and moving to new type of market or busiens will make your current skills obsolete, so you will need to start frim the bottom and learn a new things.
Jumper started with a copy of Walkera's Devo 7E and the open Deviation firmware (The first firmware for the TS8's even said "Devo 7E" in the boot screen.) But they didn't a just 1:1 copy, they implemented all the community mods made to the Devo 7E (4in1 module, more Switches and pods, a better MCU, Deviation TX). That's totally fine for me because they also added a JR module bay which has driven the development of Deviation TX further. I now can use Crossfire or R9 with my shitty old Walkera radio thanks to the cloning work of Jumper. And I see that FrSky might miss a opportunity here. A real open Open TX might re-innovate the FrSky hardware in a way FrSky didn't think about before. Sorry for my bad english.
I love how you brought up Nikola Tesla! He also did a lot of his work in Colorado Springs. There’s a lot of books about him in this Colorado Springs book store.
Looks like it's time for an OpenTX fork, guys. Anyways there is not so much development ongoing anymore, they just add new hardware. Or did I miss something the last 2 years? Time for Next-TX or LibreTX or FreeTX or whatever. Shame on you, FrSky - soon people will be bullied using their hardware :-) Just need some nice hall effect gimbals (like the M9 and an M9r), and I will switch to Jumper.
It is very nice that you mention Nikola Tesla, but you should know that he was not born in Croatian, because Croatia did not exist as a state before 1991, but in territory that was under the rule of the Austro-Hungarian monarchy. He is a Serb from his father Milutin and his mother Georgina.
Many companies have been 'cloned'..Skype, Nokia, Blackberry...all innovators in their own right..but the tech was there in the first place to use...so lets work together to acknowledege the innovation of the creators...even Iron Man used the Mobious...
I completely agree. Branding over innovation. Look at the f11 car cleaner. May different companies many different marketing approaches and slander each other over the same product
I don’t mind copies at all, a copy is not just a “copy”, it really needs to work as well and have the same quality as the original or else it won’t sell, or at least be a lot cheaper. People do not buy clones knowing that they are of worse quality than the originals. Besides, there is no such a thing as intellectual property. Unless someone sells a pirate product under the name of another brand that is not theirs, there is nothing wrong.
1. what motor size to choose.. I am a beginner and I want a powerful, smooth quad but in the same time possible to control (600g 4s freestyle quad) 2205.5 2206? 2207? 2306? 2. And I want the option for 6s so what is the best Esc and fc for 6s (but will also work for 4s) freestyle setup for great performance and affordably ?? Thanks.
Just to clarify. Tesla was Serbian, born in Othodox priest famlly in a village that is today part of Croatia. As very poor he relocated to America, where all of his important inventions were created, and later stollen. He died in America poor.
"Hey, you shouldn't copy the copy that I copied because that's copying, so I'm going to copy a letter of a copied letter stating that you shouldn't sell the copy of my copy that I copied to copy the copy." Did I copy?
Open TX is an open source software package and Frsky has no legal right to claim it as their own. It's just like Linux software anyone can use and tweek it to develop their own version of the software. we have to boycott Frsky. they have no right to threaten the dealers so don't buy their products.
just keep doing what u are doing kabab, learned a lot about the micro stuff from you and going to build a powerwhoop. just sad to know i just switched to frsky
If Frysky is forcing Banggood not to sell the Jumper, what’s to stop everyone from buying Frysky stuff? We should send a letter to Banggood saying if you don’t sell the Jumper radios, we won’t buy Frysky stuff from you anymore. It is pretty underhanded to threaten a major retailer because you refuse to compete with another company that has a better, more valuable product, especially when both companies are guilty of the same offences. Frysky is going to take all it’s radios and go home and do what? Pout? Whine to it’s old customers? Seems Frysky just can’t compete and is looking for the cheapest way to protect its interests. Perhaps Frysky, is only good at copying? Why not copy the T16 and sell it for a few dollars less? Does it consider giving customers value, bad for the industry as well?
I'm guessing you've already watched the entire compendium of L2 Inc (Professor Scott Galloway), but if you haven't you'll enjoy that as a side thing. To anybody else, watch those, you'll enjoy them
By the letter its look like Frsky starts getting failsafe from reality :)
LOL
Omg 😂😂😂
where is the link ? :þ
@@nixxinn in the description of the video.
@@Kabab dont see it there.. :(
I'm happy you highlighted Nikola, he made many things possible. RF and 3 phase motor which we use to enjoy our hobby.
He actually made the first rc vehicle it was a boat he used to demonstrate the technology.
then Tesla beat Edison with ac vs dc. what ur modern world would be without tesla...this guy take not so much money that he can be expect just for make this real !! a lesson for all non open source maker...
@@404ErreuR404 Whats the lesson? That if you want to create things to help humanity you'll be persecuted by every major business enterprise out there and end up dying penniless and alone in a room full of inventions you have know way of getting to the world because any attempt at a loan or backing is met with a big fuck you because your goal isn't to exploit people's needs to make a profit? Corporations and the men who run them destroy all sense of humanity in pursuit of the almighty dollar. Nikola Tesla was one of if not the greatest mind to ever live and should be an American hero (even if he wasn't born here) but, they rarely teach you about him in school here while Edison is made out to be the modern inventor of electricity. It's a bit conspiracy theorist of me but, I think it's because Tesla wasn't conducive to "the American dream" something about free electricity to all and working almost solely for the betterment of humanity doesn't fit very well in our society.
Well that was a bit of a rant haha. RIP Tesla at least now days he's getting some of the credit he deserves. I mean for Christs sake he literally had a patent for almost everything we think of as modern technology from wireless communication be it T.V. radio or even the internet to drones and laser defense systems.
Table of Contents:
01:02 - Jumper T16 recommended
04:00 - FrSky is a PUBLICLY traded company!!
05:37 - FrSky's ridiculous threat letters
Link to the entire FrSky threat letter: bit.ly/2HgghMR
07:39 - Discussion of copy/clones
11:35 - Minor analysis of FrSky's letter
13:17 - OpenTx on FrSky's side?
16:25 - Branding over innovation?
17:29 - GoPro as an example
Link to the entire FrSky threat letter: bit.ly/2HgghMR
FrSky things I will be reviewing soon:
New radio: bit.ly/30cma6m
R9 module: bit.ly/2Heypry
R9 Rx: bit.ly/305csCO
Like I said, the industry doesn't really care so I'm still going to be reviewing select FrSky products if they're interesting. If they're copies of others, they're likely going to be inferior so nothing to worry about...
Good luck trying to find a Jumper T16. They're typically sold out anywhere you look and FrSky has restricted banggood from selling it.
Equipment I highly recommend:
Micro Eagle -
goo.gl/or1fS9
Rush Tank Vtx -
goo.gl/YMYmya
Fantastic solder-
amzn.to/2P5QM2W
TS100 iron -
goo.gl/DqBipa
goo.gl/svK6DD
amzn.to/2OV5XMh
WaFL’s Cap Cap
bit.ly/2GUpXxO
Xing 2306: goo.gl/TT9gnw, amzn.to/2VkZ8rt
Flywoo 2306: goo.gl/xuLG6d
Hold off on 220X motors for now. There is a bug in BLheli/BF that makes them act a little weird unfortunately. :-(
Sub $200 5" build that's still good:
Frame: goo.gl/EpXQhZ
FC/4in1 Stack: goo.gl/HprVbj
Motors: goo.gl/h5rofi
Props: goo.gl/ZnzY2y
Props: goo.gl/VMBiQh
FPV Cam: goo.gl/FDJhYw
Vtx: goo.gl/JNVDMn
Starter goggles I recommend: goo.gl/GvJUkT
Tips?
PayPal: www.paypal.me/kababfpv
Please use my referral code if you're gonna buy a Tesla. You get some free stuff when you do and I get better status with Tesla: ts.la/bob40889
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Jumper t16 looks like the love child of spectrum/ futaba scroll spectrum, body futaba layout, open tx from open source code! Do Linux own open tx? Frsky are ripping of consumers! T16 is not a clone it is a blend of the best of many controllers! For a way better price point,! Ersky project was ripped the make open tx! Frsky is overpriced and they should have helped with the Nirvana tx as the build quality on the Nirvana beats anything I have held by Frsky!
Any chance it will be in stock by the end of May??
What happened to your radio?? When it will be out for sale??
Is it a big radio like jumper or x9d??
Does it have module bay??
Which protocol will it run??
@@mehulanand8623 maybe. Depends what all the retailers do
@@mehulanand8623 still working on it. The people I'm working with have been extravagantly delayed and challenging. It's beyond my control at this point. However the light Innovation I bring to the product is unlikely to be replicated before my controller unless another company sees it and steals it so I'm not super worried
All this frsky nonsense Made me order a T16. They just got beaten at their own game.
Thinking of also getting one just to make them cry lol
They did. And I tried to find a way to make old Taranis relevant and it has just turned into such a pain in the ass. The radio is first gen and updated TX firmware to use a multi module just sucks.
The idea of buying a radio and being able to upgrade firmware was a joke. FrSky just wants me to buy a whole new Taranis plus se radio.
I ordered a Jumper T16 instead
I was looking for a my first good radio after the flysky... And the choice was the frsky.. but I bought the Jumper t16 V2 with all sensor gimbal...
I did the same thing :)
I wanted to get a new radio too, all I had was a spektrum radio, and a lot of bind and fly models were frsky, so I was definitely thinking of getting a new frsky transmitter, and then I saw jumper t16, and was all set to get it. I hesitated at getting it, and I’m glad i didn’t, because then came the jumper t16 pro, which is what I ended up getting, and boy am I glad I did.
so a Chinese company moaning about cloning, that's rich
that letter does not look like it came from a professional organisation.
I thought so too. Poorly written and no official letterhead.
I hope Trappy's OK. I can imagine that the fit of laughter might have lasted days.
It's called OPEN tx for a reason geez
The issue is separating patent and copyright issues. So for example the 1:1 copies of frames like the chameleon or the reverb are a problem because they are actual 1:1 copies. A Wizard is not a 1:1 copy of the alien. If Armattan PATENT a carbon frame with 4 arms then that is an entirely different issue. Copyright should be enforced, Patents only hurt the community. For example in the Paint Ball , how pneumatics worked in a paintball gun were pretty standard, without going into too much details many guns on the market worked in a very similar fashion using a solenoid to drive a bolt back with pressurized air. A relatively new company came onto the market, got a patent for how the pneumatics work in their guns(which just so happened to be how other companies also powered thier guns). This CRIPPLED the industry at the time. I, so disappointed in FrSky over this i was ready to sell my qx7 and buy a jumper or futaba since i use xfire now anyway.
My T16 shipped today! To Hell with FrSky and also to Spektrum for charging twice as much for an 8 channel than their 6 channel.
All I heard was somethin... something ..FLOSS!!!
Dude, I agree with you 100% on most of what you said... But not about Crossfire vs R9.
The question is: Crossfire is 100% LoRa chips. Chips you can buy from lots of companies and there are even LoRa modules for Arduino... And there are people who created homemade transmitters and receivers using Arduino and LoRa... Only the frequency (800~900mHz) that you can choose.
The rest is the firmware. And that is different from all of them. You know? 😉
Anyway, TBS was wrong about it and now FrSky is making the exactly same mistake. What is stupid. 😕
Like I said, people will agree or disagree. Doesn't matter. There will never be a consensus but if you ask me, it looks the same, same exact antenna design, same exact materials.....you can't unsee something that's good to be original. FrSky would have NEVER EVER come up with that antenna design if they hadn't seen it first. It's not as logical and straight forward if you've never seen it...
@@Kabab I totally agree, but the wasn't created by TBS either. So...
@@MCsCreations the micro Rx for 900mhz came from someone else?
KababFPV Yes. A dipole antenna. WHAAAT?? No one has ever thought of that design before! 🤣
@@Kabab Well, there are lots of micro RX over there. Even FlySky has some. XM, XM+, R-XSR... It's nothing new.
The only common things between Crossfire and R9 are the LoRa modules, the frequency (like 2.4Ghz - no one owns that) and a freaking dipole antenna. There's no copy here.
A copy would be if FrSky used the same firmware... Exactly where they're losing right now.
Great explanation of this mess Bob I think FrSky are also butt hurt as the colour screen and better UI is one of their biggest tools for segmenting the premium controllers from the lower end controllers. The increase in BOM cost to incorporate the better screen etc is pretty small compared to the difference in RRP for the X10 vs the X9D. By releasing a lower priced controller with a colour screen and the nice UI Jumper has effectively broken FrSkys very profitable product segmentation model. Getting their panties in a knot over it is SOOO HYPOCRITICAL of them though considering the way they consistently use price to try to break competitors.
As for OpenTX, it would be amazing if a group of talented developers were to fork OpenTX and make a well maintained and truly open version of it. I'm surprised that more of the devs aren't copping heat for the way the project is currently working. FrSky have basically taken over of the project. It's really sad and not at all in the spirit of open source.
this hobby is expensive and i thank my career which is what keeps me in it and videos like yours. thanks for the knowledge and all you do for the hobby...
I am brand new to FPV ... My first Radio ... Jumper T16. just got it a few days ago and I love it and practicing everyday in FPV Air 2.
Awesome. You picked a good one. Welcome
The junper t16 is running a fork of opentx which is an open source project and frsky is complaining about an company which is using the open source stuff
Tf is wrong with 'em
Retailers and sellers of the jumper t16 stay strong! ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
You are doing something wrong in my opinion by removing the t16...
Sorry that i had to say...
Ridiculous threat, just like Trappy did to them last year, now that’s them who send letters^^
Boohoo, some other Chineses copied us! But we are Chineses, we are used to copy, not to be copied!
GTFO
Bingo
they're threatening over open source software, not closed source. and TBS doesnt clone others.
@@ezracer yes and no. our threats were aimed at dealers selling the knockoffs at a lower margin than TBS stuff. dealers basically made no money and this skewed the market to our disadvantage (on products that were copies of ours no less). If TBS had to compete and match margins we would literally kill most of the smaller dealers out there. so our "threat" to protect small dealers was mischaracterized by people who have personal feelings towards TBS. although the letter was written in rage and was way out of line.
fun fact: Jumper offers twice the margin that FrSky does.
@@ezracer you wont regret it :) despite the cloning and price dumping, Crossfire is still by far the most popular long range system.
@@TeamBlackSheepFPV but r9 is looking fine...
Well, for one thing, this was a very interesting video and for another, it does bring out some controversy, that many of us were unaware. A little controversy is a good thing as it can inspire conversation. So good job and what a great "OpEd" piece this was! I always value your opinions. However, the one question I have left is will OPEN TX be supporting Jumper Transmitters or not? From what I can see on the OPEN TX website they are not listed as supported radios. That doesn't bode well in my mind, so I'll pass on any Jumper OPEN TX products until they are listed.
They will not support it. They do not support clones.
why? if jumper have forked then jumper support it, it has nothing to do with the opentx people or FRsky (who seem to be attempting a morally dubious way of controlling open source) personally I would stay away from frsky
hahaha FrSky are cloning one of Trappy's fits!
Regarding the "you can't unsee that good idea", R.E.M. once had that problem with the Hope song from their Up album. Leonard Cohen was given co-songwriting credit for Hope because of the similarities in melody & lyrical pattern to his Suzanne song.
Seems too me taranis sold to many xd9's and got a BIGHEAD in the process!! I know taranis is also hurt because alot of youtubers and non youtubers like the jumper more and switched!! I'm stick to my xd9 just cuz I've only used the spektrum and like my xd9 more in most ways!! The jumper does look nice tho with that screen!! Also you better always keep posting sick videos & keeping us in the fpv loop!! I enjoy ur content and flying skills bro!!
Wow...Frysky king of copy says don't copy them and are at the same time coming out with the X9 lite that looks very similar to Jumper's T12 in shape and size.
Apparently stealing ideas are only ok if Frysky does it. I Love my Jumper T12 Plus. I don't even need the Jumper T16, but might get one after Frskys behavior.
About the importance of Branding over Innovation; it is an almost unavoidable effect of an open market. On a open market, the price of an item is decided by two factors alone: how cheap someone is willing to sell a certain product for and how much someone is willing to pay for it. This means that items don't have an innate "fair" price, if people are prepared to pay a certain price for an item and a supplier is prepared to sell it at that price then that is what the item is worth.
Another important thing to understand is that even though we do believe we are making rational decisions based on logic and facts, we mostly don't. We make decisions almost entirely based on emotions, including the decision on what we are willing to pay for something.
Now, as a company, if you want to be able to charge a higher price for something, that can be done only by getting potential customers to accept on an emotional level to pay that higher price. And while innovative features and an impressive tech sheet will have an impact, there are way more effective ways of managing people's emotional response to a product, which is where branding and marketing comes in. It''s simply more efficient most of the time to get people to accept a price using smart marketing than producing a better product.
There are only two ways this could change: Either we somehow manage to alter the way human beings make decisions, or we abolish free competition on a free market. In reality though, none of this is bound to happen, rather, with better and better understanding of the human mind and how it can be influenced combined with ever more intelligent analysis algoritms working on ever growing sets of data on people we are rapidly approaching a future where it will be so easy to influence us that we might no longer be able to trust our own decision making, and where marketing will be everything.
Marketing/hype is already everything :-(. Game changer.... :-(
I saw a comparason of these two radios internally and even the insides dont even kind of look the same. With these threats to businesses with no proof and far from looking the same. I wont ever consider FRSky for a radio. Sad that they do obvious copping of other company tech. Bad forum frsky.
If youre going to give credit to inventors that are important to our hobby, how about some credit to Hedy Lamarr who invented frequency hopping. Were would we be without that.
I followed FrSky's business practices only superficially but I firmly believe in rewarding companies with good practices. So your video helped me decide where to go from the radio protocol I use today which is FrSky's ACCST. Spoiler: It won't be R9M (or ACCESS).
Just for the sheer nerve that frsky has, retailers should send a letter back to them stating: You know what? Do not ever send us another radio again and take us off your list."
I sometimes wonder if I've been transported from an alternate universe where Tesla is well know. I keep hearing Tesla is forgotten but I also remember growing up thinking Tesla was really famous.
In my universe, Tesla even has the unit of magnetic field strength named after him.
It's too bad this universe has forgotten such an important person.
Now I just need to figure out how to return to the universe where Tesla is famous.
Edit: Thanks for sharing the letter from FrSky.
It's only in the past couple decades that Tesla has been recognized more and more.
Much like Edison publicly tortured animals to try and show how 'bad' Tesla's AC electricity was, I wouldn't be surprised if FrSky made a video showing how easy drones crash if you use a Jumper TX...
Hello from Croatia, when Nikola Tesla was a young boy he petted his cat than came in the house from outside where a storm with rain/thunder was.He then saw sparks as he petted the moist cat fur with his hand. this sparked the intrest in him for all the amazing things hes done. P.S.Good video on this topic Bob!
What really amuses me about this is the fact a hobby shop in the UK told me that TBS did a similar threat to them about the crossfire clone, the r9m. It wouldn’t surprise me if the English speaking part you mentioned was cribbed from a Trappy rant.
My feeling on the clone subject is that if it’s better than the original, ofc people will buy it. “Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door”
Unfortunately this is how the market responds
Have you got a source on the stolen molds? I have always heard that FrSky bought the rights to the molds legitimately.
No source but the stories of the purchase are equally unverified. I've even heard that they bought the moulds from someone that stole them. In the end, it looks identical and it didn't need to. They have never explained otherwise and it's been an accusation from the beginning. For a company that is 'inspired' by many things, it's hard to believe they paid for them. Speaking of which, the inside of the x9d is apparently the same as the hobbyking turnigy 9x of whatever.
Along similar lines of how market value has become virtually dependent on branding - another huge problem in technological innovation now is the vehement brand loyalty. Phones are great example of this. There are large demographics that will 100% refuse to consider a certain phone because it's not an "X". So when a phone comes out that could result in a paradigm shift it can still fail even if it's innovative and better in every way just because consumers brand loyalty doesn't allow them to evaluate other options. And so for most companies innovation must take a back seat to branding most of the time. Unfortunate
Very unfortunate
This is why I’m selling ALL my R9 gear and QX7 from Frsky and I WILL be getting this T16 with either Crossfire or Dragonlink if DL is possible to work with T16. May even go EZUHF who knows! Point is this opened my eyes
don't get too drastic. At the end of the day both these companies are shitty and the consumer ultimately wins.
KababFPV yeah you’re definitely right. I’ll wait see what unfolds
That's why I stick to TBS or ImmersionRC products. Innovation does cost something and the same with quality.
McLogo76 exuhf, dragonlink way before xfire
Why did DJI come to mind when you started to mention GoPro? :)
With all industries operating at levels well above many consumer’s understandings many people automatically are drawn to what they know or have seen or have heard of. Hence power of brand image. Thanks for bringing these issues up as the only way to alert people to them is to discuss them. Aside from word of mouth or social trends, online video reviewers seem to be the people with the most power here. I feel bad for Tesla too, I think Edison tried very hard to diminish his achievements.
I totally agree, Bob. I like a little competition but I hate the misuse of market power.
My Taranis X9D is getting old and I’ve been thinking about a replacement. Frsky have done nothing to develop the X9D but have extended their range of TXs. The Q7 does not have sliders which I need while the 10 is more than I need and more expensive. So they have lost the pace in innovation or copying. Their threatening action has put me off the company so Jumper is at the top of my list.
Great video that raises some good points. All of the FrSky antics lately just left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm strongly thinking to just move my radio gear to another brand and just show frsky the middle finger.
Or maybe I just dust off my Radiolink AT10 II and start using it again, if only it had a JR bay for a Crossfire module.
Na don't do anything drastic. Just something to keep in mind.
Don’t forget Da Vinci! But, can you image if Telsa were here today, and into quad FPV! Holy Moly!
I hope this is the death knell for FRSKY. I would want all the retailers to collectively take their letter, tell them to piss off and start carrying Jumper radios and receivers. I use Crossfire now so my FRSKY receivers are slowly being replaced. If Deviation properly supported Crossfire I never would've needed an OpenTX radio(T12). So I'll keep my Jumpers and even add to the lineup.
God I wish deviationTX would develop a firmware that is compatible with r9 and crossfire.
@@goingcrazy00 maybe not so much R9 anymore...they ganked that from TBS so I think the industry should go to war with such a boldly hypocritical company. I wish I could afford to switch to Futaba.
@@XZLR8N true. Okay. Then just to work with x-fire then. Lol
Deviation does support CRSF (X-Fire) and PXX (R9) for half a year now. Just modded my old Devo 7E. :D As far as I can see Deviation even supporting the Flex firmware wich is pretty much alpha in Open TX.
I understand you fully, but frsky radios are good quality, I don't double that, but I'm not supporting this shit that frsky is doing
FPV is the only industry I know of where the consumers are so heavily involved in the business dealings of the suppliers/retailers.. interesting to see how it works out.. free market baby!
It's just just FPV. It's every industry. Just like every other industry, there are many people that are heavily involved and many many more that are oblivious. Just how it is...
KababFPV not true.. FPV has way more users involved than not! Only place where almost every end user with a youtube account is involved with and even lays eyes on these types of IP letters and cease and desists.. ie flightone raceflight drama ie helio ie RR/rdq business dealings.. there is so much information that is typically unavailable elsewhere... I think it’s because the relationship between companies and influencers is WAY closer than that of other industries
@@MaxBeamer so I'm pretty sure that flight one sells several tens of thousands worth of flight controllers a month consistently. The number of potential customers on Facebook and TH-cam and Instagram or maybe only 50000? when you realize that most of these companies are selling many many thousands of dollars worth of product each month oh, I don't know if a number as small as 50,000 is enough to support so many companies. I think that the market that is not on Instagram or Facebook is many times larger. We just don't see it. this particular industry was pretty much born on TH-cam so it would make sense for a larger percentage of the consumers to be on these platforms. however maybe that's just the initial development and as the industry progresses more and more mainstream people that aren't on computers as much become involved. I think we have already exited that initial growth and are slowly but surely moving into more mainstream. But it is still very difficult to gauge the market size
KababFPV dunno about the figures but that’s what I’m saying, interesting to see what happens!
It is very obvious that FrSky has been extremely anticompetitive in the past year or so. Unfortunately their branding is so strong in this community that the majority of pilots are choosing to look the other way, continue to use their products and even strongly suggest them to new pilots. It would be so much better for the hobby if there were a little more real competition in this space where the likes of UndergroundFPV, FlySky, TBS, and others could all have enough of the market that they could survive and try to out innovate each other instead or resorting to these anticompetitive tactics.
Yeah like I said, the market isn't aware nor does it care. It is what it is and the innovators get screwed and are left looking for ways to protect themselves or they just stop.
Well Tesla is born in Austro-Hungaria and he did most of his work in US.
But before that he studied in austrian university.
Anyway for all those who dont care about FrSky fury, simple solution is to get Tx wich cost you less money.
And competition is a good thng, because otherwise you will have to buy 500€ device if you want to fly.
Based on this and similar letters, how is Frsky not liable for tortious interference of contract?
Tesla emigrated an d lived in the US. Had labs in New York City, Colorado Springs, and Long Island. The corner of 6th an 40th in NYC is named after him. He lived in a building there in his old age. Great man!
That letter looks like a bunch of forum posts glued together
Droneconomics on Kabab channel? Awesome.
Hey Kabab, great job of acknowledging Tesla's work. He was one of the greatest scientists of the 20th century who spent a big part of his life working in the USA, and gave a world a lot of inventions. Certainly, if not for him there will be no AC, and the world will probably be tangled up in the cables of Edison's DC. On the other side, I'm a FrSky user but this is not the good business policy and it is bad for the hobby in many ways. The people should be aware of FrSky's doings. Thanks for the video.
Oh man, FrSky, I love their stuff but that's just not cool. They're now even copying Trappy's behavior... ,D makes them appear weak. ,-(
Google for "not a code jockey or a hardware designer" (in quotes) and you'll find the source for that part of the letter.
You absolute legend, that thread is so fun to read!
You absolute legend, that thread is so fun to read!
thanks I had forgotten about that shit show.
the KT guy points out the stupidity of all this, and why kilrah is using an artificial argument
Ahh, the politics of FPV and the internal conflicts of Chinese companies. Because I found this interesting it makes me wonder if I've gotten in way too deep in this hobby. A lot of the people who get upset about this didn't even bother voting in the last presidential election!
Na. It's just interesting. Trump is still a moron but at least he aknowledges the fact that China has the world by the balls.
That's a good point.
i remember frksy bought the mold to another company called "king..." i cant remember the full name, since the mold is expensice, i dont know how much it cost, like 30 or 40k, they just bought it already done to make the radios,
but yes, its a copy, not a steal from the JR, it has some differences,
Cloning the cloner who has cloned other products...that's how they got ahead. The gentle you mentioned in the video is original and needs to be recognized...he was the only inventer in this field...There can only be one! Awesome review!
I know that I'm almost two years too late to the party. But, I think that FrSky doing this, has given Jumper's T16 radio the Streisand Effect.
As you said, there just isn't much innovation going on in multi rotors. Just a bunch of people making copies of everyone else's stuff. We need something new and exciting to hit the market, not endless supplies of ESCs and FCs and motors that now are all pretty much the same thing and the same quality.
there are two very innovative groups I regularly talk to that have some pretty insane tech that they're not bothering with anymore because of the copy issue...
@@Kabab see, that stinks! I get it, but it stinks 😔
That letter is illegal in its own right, threatening a dealer to withdraw their account because they’re stocking a competitors product breaks anti-competition rules. But as they’re in China I guess they don’t care as they pretty much ignore International trade rules or recognise them.
As long as we as end users keep buying their products, they’ll keep making them by any means necessary; Cheaper labour, poor working and environmental practices, so in some respects we’re just as responsible?
Actually perfectly legal. It is called brand protection.
Wayne Flower there is no brand protection going on
One of the OpenTX developers is a full time employee of FRSKY. Anyone can personally develop and fork OpenTX to another piece of hardware so I don't know how anyone can stand in the way of development ?
If you want actual OpenTX support and updates from OpenTX, you need to pay them. Even if you pay them, they won't actually do anything for AGES because I'm pretty sure FrSky controls a lot of what's going on at OpenTX. We've forked it and are making our own. We don't care for the updates anymore because OpenTX is probably going to be replaced by something else sometime soon anyway.
@@Kabab it is up to you what you do once you fork it but all the updates are available to reintegrate into your fork. I still don't understand your argument, I don't condone any of frsky recent behaviour regarding the new access txs and jumper because it is anti-competitive. Once you get a big market share the corporate culture sets in. All I can say is vote with your wallet.
Maybe we need some innovation on economic models to stimulate innovation, rewarding innovators, securing the distribution of innovations to those who will benefit from them and to prevent the need and desire for seemingly pointless things such as "branding"?
If the hardware inside the t16 is nearly identical to the horus I think they have a right to be upset.
The hardware inside the X9D is identical to the Hobbyking Turnigy X9. You never heard a peep from Hobbyking
@@Kabab hmm. That is kind of on hk then. Thought the hypocracy can't be ignored. I dunno. Fortunately I'm too poor to do anything but just keep my qx7 so I don't have to worry about making purchasing decisions on principle:)
I don't think the Chinese have a word for hypocrisy, it has no meaning there.😁
Depending what "Chinese" you're referring to. The Chinese language does have a word for hypocrisy, and it means so much in places like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, etc. There are quite some "bad Chinese" in the Mainland China, because their government makes sure bad people get successful and good people stay in jails. Never to forget that one of the biggest reasons why the communist party became so powerful, is that many administrations from the western wold ALLOW it to do all the bad things and pretend nothing happened, so that they can make money by doing business with the communists.
@STRIP Yea I know. And if you read my reply, I even confirmed what he said is quite true in the Mainland China.
虚伪
@@ivanwong8361 Now the west is responsible for communism, nice! I was of course being sarcastic. The only ones allowing the communist party to become so powerful are the people of China. It's not so simple as just refusing to do business with a country because you don't like their politics, millions of Chinese workers would be out of work if the west cut off trade. I would simply not buy so many brushless motors, no big deal for me.
Oh so these countries do business with China because they worry about Chinese workers out of job? Nice. Why don’t they worry about those in North Korea? This is exactly what 偽善 means.
Funny enough this letter scared Banggood and Hobbyking as they are not listing the T16 for sale.
They told them that the JR port was copied I believe. Which is so dumb because Frsky doesn't own the port.
@@Kabab incredible...
As soon as the Jumper T16 Pro came out, I threw myself at Grayson Hobby screaming "Please! PLEASE take my money!"
Really liked the topic! Kudos to you for being informative on your channel!
Thanks for posting this . Very enlightening . I admire your candor and bravery.
This video needs to go viral, as much as I like FrSky products , this is just childish of them to threaten retailers , rather than just making a better product to compete in the market.............
That's exactly the point. They have ZERO imagination or innovation so all they can do is fight back people that can do what they do.....because they're not special in any way at all.
Any one wanting to purchase my FrSky X9D I’ll be switching to the jumper t16 🤯
Might want to do some research.
Wayne Flower lol where do you want the X9D shipped to ?
@@LOWKEEFPV I'll give it a good home. By the way - Don't drop that Jumper-- Where you going to get parts for it? Oh by the way, from an honest Jumper dealer: Note: Jumper currently doesn't have FCC certification for the radios. We and other stores can't legally ship these to US customers until there is an official FCC Part 15 certification and proper labeling on the radios. Guess what, they can't FCC that thing legally. No multi-module can pass FCC.
AMA insurance is no good if you are flying with illegal RF. Opps!
Wayne Flower Nice Im in Australia drop the jumper lol dropping my transmitter isn’t an issue for me I use a neck strap.
Ohh you mentioned FCC yeah I won’t need a module so there is no need for the FCC my crossfire will be removed from the X9D and fit straight into the Jumper . Oops! 😬
1 usd is my offer and still taking a chance
BTW: Yes, banggood and gearbest do not have the jumper T16 listed anymore. But aliexpress and a lot of others still have. ;-) I am now thinking about buying a jumper and selling my FrSky. But as someone already said maybe it´s a hoax? I am always skeptical...
I understand what your saying Bob...I personally use Spektrum but I used to Own JR Radios before they Shut Down... I have known all along FrSky took the X9D from a cloned JR XP9303 just added Open TX and Sold F tones of a copied 2005 developed radios! pretty sad cuz i loved JR ,and they shut down from hits like this.. I refuse to ever use anything FRSky developed. I know people need an affordable system but damn.. I am an irrigation tech i do not make $hT loads of money by any means and I know I can go in any hobby store and make payments on a decent Radio.. most places have 90 day layaway....for real.... I am willing to spend my hard earned dollar on a quality product!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, they are important.
Props to Nikola. always.
46 seconds in and i had to mention that it was not that long ago that the American government and science institution overturned the recognition of Marconi being the inventor of radio in favour of Tesla.
IMO, reverse engineering and "cloning" arrangements of off the shelf parts (ARM professor, caps, resistors, etc) is fair game. Frsky has no proprietary ICs in it's radios to my knowledge. Also, OpenTX is open source, anyone can fork it and use it. That's that "stealing" it like some clowns on RCgroups have been saying.
According to the GNU license for OpenTX you have some requirements that must be met to use Fork OpenTX. Jumper is not doing this. Funny thing is it would be easy for them to do it.
@@WayneFlower That may be the case, but reality is that when you open source, it's out there. Now, this is just MY OPINION, but placing conditions on open source is not open at all.
@@WillThat It is a requirement of ANY OpenSource software that source code must be made available. It is what makes OpenSource OPEN. Otherwise you have a commercial business like Jumper stealing the software. It is that simple. Jumper are the ones that are in the wrong, that is why the OpenTX team is asking them to do the right thing. It really is not that difficult.
Wayne Flower it’s on GitHub so you can get the source
William Decoteau it all depends on the license.
This is serious harassment tactics on FrSky's part. Honestly that is shady abusive business practices. All FrSky achieves by sending out letters like that is assure I don't really ever want to buy from them again. If they wanted to do it the right way they should have taken Jumper to court and figured it out there. NOT bully their vendors. Honestly bad, shady abusive business behavior.
To redeem itself in my eyes FrSky will need to send out an apology letter to its vendors retracting its request for them to remove the Jumper T16 radio. It will also need to make a public statement to the same tune. At that point FrSky can feel free in my eyes to take Jumper to a US court and challenge them. I would find that completely acceptable and understandable. The right way.
20:00 Strong competition on the market is in the best interest of employees, because if your company don't want you to pay enough or you will just stop liking your company you can go work for competitors. This apply also to high level mangers. So if you as high level manager, trying to put your competitor out of market, one day you may end in a miserable company or became unemployed with no good options for new deployment. Some set of skills are very specific of specific markets and moving to new type of market or busiens will make your current skills obsolete, so you will need to start frim the bottom and learn a new things.
I keep telling my wife, "Flossing is more important than brushing your teeth."
Kabab. When is your radio coming out?
I don't really know. It's just slowly being worked on. There's no release date in mind but it would be nice if it were this year.
Nikolai Tesla was a genius. Interesting tales about where his work went after his death.
Jumper started with a copy of Walkera's Devo 7E and the open Deviation firmware (The first firmware for the TS8's even said "Devo 7E" in the boot screen.) But they didn't a just 1:1 copy, they implemented all the community mods made to the Devo 7E (4in1 module, more Switches and pods, a better MCU, Deviation TX). That's totally fine for me because they also added a JR module bay which has driven the development of Deviation TX further. I now can use Crossfire or R9 with my shitty old Walkera radio thanks to the cloning work of Jumper. And I see that FrSky might miss a opportunity here. A real open Open TX might re-innovate the FrSky hardware in a way FrSky didn't think about before. Sorry for my bad english.
Yeah I'm not defending jumper. Fraky is just a much much bigger and PUBLIC company doing this shit.
I love how you brought up Nikola Tesla! He also did a lot of his work in Colorado Springs. There’s a lot of books about him in this Colorado Springs book store.
Looks like it's time for an OpenTX fork, guys. Anyways there is not so much development ongoing anymore, they just add new hardware. Or did I miss something the last 2 years? Time for Next-TX or LibreTX or FreeTX or whatever. Shame on you, FrSky - soon people will be bullied using their hardware :-) Just need some nice hall effect gimbals (like the M9 and an M9r), and I will switch to Jumper.
Exactly the reason why I didn't want to buy a Frsky transmitter...
It is very nice that you mention Nikola Tesla, but you should know that he was not born in Croatian, because Croatia did not exist as a state before 1991, but in territory that was under the rule of the Austro-Hungarian monarchy. He is a Serb from his father Milutin and his mother Georgina.
Many companies have been 'cloned'..Skype, Nokia, Blackberry...all innovators in their own right..but the tech was there in the first place to use...so lets work together to acknowledege the innovation of the creators...even Iron Man used the Mobious...
Thanks for pointing this because much people don't know it
I completely agree. Branding over innovation. Look at the f11 car cleaner. May different companies many different marketing approaches and slander each other over the same product
I don’t mind copies at all, a copy is not just a “copy”, it really needs to work as well and have the same quality as the original or else it won’t sell, or at least be a lot cheaper. People do not buy clones knowing that they are of worse quality than the originals.
Besides, there is no such a thing as intellectual property. Unless someone sells a pirate product under the name of another brand that is not theirs, there is nothing wrong.
1. what motor size to choose.. I am a beginner and I want a powerful, smooth quad but in the same time possible to control (600g 4s freestyle quad) 2205.5 2206? 2207? 2306?
2. And I want the option for 6s so what is the best Esc and fc for 6s (but will also work for 4s) freestyle setup for great performance and affordably ?? Thanks.
Just go with 2306 for 5"
@@Kabab also if I beginner ?
Just to clarify. Tesla was Serbian, born in Othodox priest famlly in a village that is today part of Croatia. As very poor he relocated to America, where all of his important inventions were created, and later stollen. He died in America poor.
"Hey, you shouldn't copy the copy that I copied because that's copying, so I'm going to copy a letter of a copied letter stating that you shouldn't sell the copy of my copy that I copied to copy the copy."
Did I copy?
Perfect 👌
Open TX is an open source software package and Frsky has no legal right to claim it as their own. It's just like Linux software anyone can use and tweek it to develop their own version of the software. we have to boycott Frsky. they have no right to threaten the dealers so don't buy their products.
Kabab. When is your action camera coming out?
I'm not even considering looking at making an action cam
I feel bad for FrSky for even slightly thinking that the UGLY UGLY jumper would resemble anything FrSky makes.
Seriously 😂
just keep doing what u are doing kabab,
learned a lot about the micro stuff from you and going to build a powerwhoop.
just sad to know i just switched to frsky
Na don't worry about that. I'm just presenting things. Don't bother with anything drastic
If Frysky is forcing Banggood not to sell the Jumper, what’s to stop everyone from buying Frysky stuff? We should send a letter to Banggood saying if you don’t sell the Jumper radios, we won’t buy Frysky stuff from you anymore.
It is pretty underhanded to threaten a major retailer because you refuse to compete with another company that has a better, more valuable product, especially when both companies are guilty of the same offences.
Frysky is going to take all it’s radios and go home and do what? Pout? Whine to it’s old customers?
Seems Frysky just can’t compete and is looking for the cheapest way to protect its interests.
Perhaps Frysky, is only good at copying? Why not copy the T16 and sell it for a few dollars less? Does it consider giving customers value, bad for the industry as well?
Yes, in the same way they do not say that Joseph Swan invented the incandescent light bulb.
Mathematics like most intricate systems have a logical end. Most things with a logical end also will have singular or similar means.
The best example of marketing being way too important today is the whole Fyre Fraud thing.
Jumper has to make their branch public. That's part of GPL v2.
I'm sure they will but nobody will ever look at it even
I'm guessing you've already watched the entire compendium of L2 Inc (Professor Scott Galloway), but if you haven't you'll enjoy that as a side thing. To anybody else, watch those, you'll enjoy them
wait. t16 is identical hardware copy of the horus? for half the price? count me in!