to, me Zeke is a better PG then Curry .Curry is not a premiere defender nor can he carry the load sometimes but not all the time like Zeke if that 3ball off ,its over! because he not taking no contact
Hi, Andy! Great vid as always. Speaking of the Bad Boy Pistons, I was wondering maybe if you could do a "How good was Bill Laimbeer actually?" I know that many people only remember him for his dirty plays, but they tend to forget he was a baller. Bill was a multiple-time all-star, great rebounder, and a stretch big who can shoot the lights out from 3.
@@rnuke_rocket I think Bill Laimbeer was the greatest heel in the NBA. A rich white frat boy who played dirty and got under everyone's skin. We could really use more heels in the NBA today. It's no fun watching everyone get along
Isiah played in the most physically demanding era of basketball. He would have impressed more playing in any other time, including today in 2022. We was the 2nd best point while he played and although longevity might have others placed before him, at his position, Zeke on the court is only bested by a select 2 or 3 guys and in any game he could beat them too.
Isiah was the engine that drove those pistons teams. Everyone talks about Rodman, Dumars, Lambierr, and how the pistons prided themselves on tough gritty defense, but Isiah set the tone on offense. When he was rolling, the entire team was as well. One of the best PG’s to ever play.
@@castlewhite1577 Oh, MJ and Bird would call Lambier the dirtiest player while Dumars was the one who usually guards against the primary offensive player
Nobody truly appreciates Isiah Thomas until you've actually watched footages of him playing. It is difficult also to compare him against player nowadays.He is a complete point guard who can give instant offense and guard good defense. A phenomenom player.
I think Chris Paul would be the closest active player. Both are very high basketball IQ and have clear leadership skills. Isiah seems to have had the ability to also bring out the best in his teammates better than Paul does.
Someone asked if Thomas could play in the league today. I think he would be so far away from that Bad Boy image every eye would be on him. With those handles, and the minimal contact allowed in the league right now, how is anyone going to defend against him? He's going to be inside in the paint scoring on near every possession. He is also one of the highest IQ players out there. He knows what is going to happen before the rest of the players on the floor.
@@Woozlewuzzleable What a stupidly casual comment to make. Yes they’ve been sucking for the past decade or so but this was way before that. Next time, learn about the NBA before you start saying dumb things.
Isiah had it all. On top of incredible speed and athleticism, Isiah had ball handling skills, utter deadly coolness in the clutch, soaring basketball I.Q....and an incredible work ethic. His whole career was an extreme pleasure to watch. Fans and even the media didn't like to see their heroes, Jordan, Magic, Bird, get soundly beaten, again and again.
if he didn´t get hurt in 88 and that phantom foul they 3peat! we would discuss isiah as the goat pg because he would have a 3peat 2fvmvp against magic! he is a top 3 pg no debate!
@@razkable if u look at it, 87, steal by bird, One play away from the finals, 88, got hurt and still dominated would have won the finals and fmvp without that call... We would talk about Isiah as a top 5 player probably
from 84-85 when the Pistons were on the rise, to 1990-91, their last season as contenders, when they lost 4-1 to the Bulls in the Conf. finals, Thomas and Co. defeated, or gave a hell of a run, teams led by Wilkins, Bird-Parish-Ainge, Magic-Worthy-Kareem, Drexler-Porter-Duckworth, and of-course Jordan-Pippen. And that ain't bad!
I’m glad this video was made. I didn’t start watching hoops until 1991 so I missed most of zekes peak years but dude was a monster. Imagine almost 3 peating with MJ Bird and Magic in the league 😮
The Pistons were eliminated in 87 and 88 on the out come of single plays. In 87 Bird intercepted an inbound that turned into a score that turned a Piston victory and trip to the finals in to a Piston loss and a game seven they didn't win. In 87 Lambier got called for a foul that never happened. Kareem's two free throws won that game seven for the Lakers. But for two plays the Piston could have been four time Champions to close out the 80's.
Good ol' Zeke. Oh yeah he was such a great player and it's a shame that he was hated because of the reputation of the Bad Boy Pistons of being dirty and borderline dangerous.
Isiah Thomas best point guard ever ,favorite player ,leader of a team that made the word team matter most...yes definitely deserved more champs go Pistons
Isiah thomas is toughest player in the 80's . Doesnt give a damn whoever superstar he's facing.His mindset is im the best this game doesnt flinch in rough moments. Bad boys nickname is made cause of his tough personality and later on inflict it to the whole team. Probably top 20 of the alltime greats
@@Inktownicon you have to be joking. Isiah is clearly better than John Stockton. I'm completely baffled at how this has even become a debate in recent years. I guess Isiah's stock - no pun intended - has dropped due to a combination of different things, like the Last Dance drama, the Knicks fiasco, and the younger generation who didn't actually watch them play and just make it about Stockton's career stats without really knowing the proper context for them (durability, system, way less of a scoring responsibility than Isiah, not to mention some of the assists numbers in Utah might be a bit sketchy, etc.) That would be my theory, but either way, it's absurd that anyone would put Stockton over Isiah Thomas. It's highly debatable if there was ever a time during which Stockton was the best PG in the league. His greatness lies more in his durability, consistency, blue-collar attitude, sort of like Robert Parish at the point. He was a top 5 PG for 12-13 years. That's impressive as hell. But he was never an MVP level talent like Zeke and he never had to carry a team. Bottom line: whatever you want to say about the "Bad Boys" or Zeke specifically, there's simply no comparison here talent wise.
Tbh I’m not sure how ppl had Stockton over Thomas, when he had the much greater success for his career and in the midst of dominant dynasties too. 25 points in a quarter, on a bad ankle, doing it as a small guard, and during the NBA finals is crazy. IT was a walking bucket, could run an offense, and could play defense. He’s def the 3rd greatest PG to me behind Curry and then Magic.
How can you argue about Stockton being the 2nd greatest PG of all time? Lete think... Oh, look at his assists numbers!!! The PG is the floor general, and nobody controled the floor like Stockton besides Magic. Steps and IT scored more, thats
@@javigar133 Yeah... and Stephs defense is balls compared to the others, so he's off that list as well for me. Stockton was a pass-first PG. Not sure how much of a leader he was however. And he wasn't much of a killer/closer. Magic was a break-first PG (and his size gave him flashy passes too). Playboy, leader by happiness Zeke was neither, but more of a hard-nosed leader, like jordan, kobe, or kidd. and a killer on both ends of the floor. Steph.... the floor general is Green, he's just an amazing scorer.
12 CONSECUTIVE all star apperance in his 13 season is extremely dominant for a point guard back in the day. Imagine if it wasn't for that 1 foul on Kareem and him not getting injured and lasting 17/18 seasons, he could be top 3 easy.
I'm with Mike on this one. Second greatest point guard of all time behind Magic Johnson. His career was cut short because of his tenacity and sheer will to win. He would sacrifice ANYTHING to win, including his reputation and even his body, which eventually took a toll. Shame he was cut from The Dream Team. He's the kind of player you are going to hate if you're playing against him, but if he's on your team, you know you've got somebody who is willing to win at ALL costs.
As a MJ fan, I had a lot to hate about IT especially when he led the Bad Boy Pistons. But you can't let bad narratives/dirty plays take away from his talent.
@@daevonthesavage7483 These 2 guys are my top 1A and 1B favorite players ever. Isiah needs to let it go and stop talking about MJ. MJ needs to let it go and stop holding a grudge. They need to sit down and talk.
Isiah Thomas was the greatest point guard of his era. To call him "the second best point guard behind Magic Johnson is underrating Isiah. Isiah was was already the NBA's best point guard by 1984-85 season. Magic's NBA career started on third base. The Lakers were always the most stacked with talent in the NBA. Isiah's ascent up the NBA ladder started from the very bottom. Isiah was better better than Magic offensively and defensively.
We gotta actually thank Isiah and the pistons for making MJ who he is, if it wasn’t for them MJ and The Bulls wouldn’t have been the tough and mentally tough Bulls people knew in the 90’s that won 6 championships
@@rafikz77 jordan wasn't only one who didn't like the pistons and demanded Stern to change the rules. Guys like mchale and Barkley also complained so r narrative isn't true
If you consider the era he played in, the fact there were no allstars in his quad, and the level of competition he faced in that Eastern conference, beating the bulls, Celtics and Lakers... He should easily be a serious top 10 contender and second PG to Magic
@@nonamewillbegiven6847orry you had to be so rude in your reply. You are correct, they are all super stars, but only one of them led the team to back to back championships. If I remember correctly, it was Isaiah and team that helped a young Rodmen to become a superstar, Lambier was a tough inside man and shooter, but Isaiah's ability as an all around leader, player, scorer, passer helped highlight Lambiers skillset both inside and giving him open floor shots, and while Dumars was a great all around player, his three point shooting was a killer weapon as Isiah pulled double and triple team, freeing Dumars to lay down the three.
3rd greatest PG of all time to me… right after Magic & Curry.. Isaiah able to change his game from the early 80s of (high scoring, flashiness) to the late 80s with defense & team first & to win chips.. not many PLAYERS can do that and he did it, while beating 3 of the top 7 players of all time!! He’s 3rd and he was 2nd to me before Steph won that last chip and finals mvp… along with Moses Malone, Isiah is underrated
@@javigar133 Curry isn't in there. Love the guy, but he's a pure scorer first. Great motor, but it shows that he was the number one target every time he has to play defense. Maybe not fair because they play 5 out and zeke or magic had a center to clean up, but I can't shake the feeling that if you can't hold up defensively, you can't be the greatest at your position. You need to be in the top 20 or so for both offense and defense, and I don't think Curry gets there. But that's a feeling, maybe there's an advanced metric. Magic had his size working for him. There's a reason why people rate Stockton that high. He wasn't a flashy scorer, and the best pass-first PG... but still a monster on the defense.
I find it hilarious that someone so nasty and irritating on the court sounds so warm, calm, and inviting when he speaks as an analyst on TV. If I didn't know better I would've never guessed that Isiah was this kind of player based on how he speaks.
In my honest opinion, I actually think he is the best point guard of all time. Can pass when he needed to, shoot very well with decent amount of attempts, can play defense, exceptional handles. Magic - definitely the most recognizable, flashy and influential point guard, but lack the shooting and defense Curry - not the best player in the team all the time and average on defense Price - have all the skills, but too injury prone Stockton - can shoot, but he pass too much and relied too much on Malone's scoring Nash - same as Stockton Kidd - had a shooting problem as well Tell me what I said wrong.
There's not much you said that I would disagree with, but I would definitely add that Magic toward the end of his career before his first abrupt retirement in 91, had made himself into a respectable shooter from the outside. He was always around 50% from the field and even with the 3 point shot not being close to utilized (or OVER utilized) in it's infancy during the 80's compared to today, Magic still shot a career best 38% from 3 in 88-89. And Earv was FAR more than just flashy and influential. He was an absolute floor general, leader and competitor of the HIGHEST order, who made ALL his teammates better and possesed RARE championship winning intangibles. That's why he's #1 all-time PG for me, although I don't have a problem with anyone arguing Zeke. Also Steph may not have been the best INDIVIDUAL player when KD was there, but he was unquestionably the best player before and after, and especially on the 2 title teams without KD, and even w/KD, he was still the most important player. They had a significantly better record in games Steph played and KD missed vs. games KD played and Steph missed.
@Riles3152 i had Isiah at 2 until steph won in 22... only because at that point both had 2 championship 🏆 as the Leader of his team AND two MVPs.. While i understand with Magic 🎩 Bird 🐦 and Jordan in the leauge it woud be near impossible for Zek to win a MVP... but Steph got them none the less and now they effectively tied at 2 championship a piece
@@Riles3152 Magic always had a pass first shoot as a last resort mindset. That was the dis on him coming out of MSU. You can see how it hurt him, not. I think he was a better shooter than his stat line suggests. So many of his shots came when he was off balance and trying to still find an open man.
Isiah was vastly underrated, primarily because people didn't "like" him. Ironically, they didn't "like" him initially because he was uber-competitive and built a great team in the era of 3 Megastars; Magic, Bird, and Jordan. So, Isiah played the villain role (from Detroit, no less). All the unwarranted hate aside, Isiah is one of the two best point guards ever to play basketball. Magic is the other. For those among you who didn't get to see Isiah play live back in his days, find some TH-cam on Isiah, sit back, and enjoy!
Agreed 100%. I hate how they NBA seems to never acknowledge Isiah or the Pistons when they show championship or legends compilations during commercials. Granted, the Bad Boys weren't liked... but it's been 30 YEARS!!! Frankly, I think a lot of "Detroit vs Everybody" (which other cities copy on hats and shirts) is emulated best by the Bad Boys era Pistons.
Isiah Thomas and the rest of Detroit Pistons (BadBoys) is the epitome of Beginning and end of an ERA, they end the magic and bird era in the 80s while molding the jordan era in the 90s
Behind Magic I think he is right there, from assist to point, field goal. Because he play in the era game was build around big man therefore a lot see him as underrate.
Great video. Would love to see one on Gary Payton. I feel like he gets disrespected a lot in top5 point guard discussions, almost never do I hear his name mentioned, while he's easily in my top3.
Zeke gets lost in the shuffle of all time great PGs. Could play in any era, especially todays era where the little man does most of the scoring. He had great handles and could deinitely shoot the 3 when he wanted to.
Swap their drafted teams, don't think Magic would have done anything in Detroit. Isiah would have won more rings than Magic did with that All-star roster in the weak west
As far as backcourt pressure the 2004 Pistons had the “Pit Bulls” off the bench in Lindsey Hunter and Mike James. Hunter was the last player I saw defend on the ball like that.
Ya"LL people R awful quick to be throwin Steph in that #2 spot ..let's talk about Defensive eras and I don't look at Zeke as just a 2time champion either He carried Detroit to that 88 Championship in the greatest Stolen performance we've ever seen So Isiah Really truly was a 3peat Champion in the Greatest Golden era of Magic Bird MJ playing in peak form I don't think we've ever had a situation where all 4 these teams were so close to there peak forms look at Pistons Goin 7games ecf 87 wth the 86 Champs Celtics they were that close to playing in the finals against 87 SHOWTIME LAKERS putting all 3 teams on a elite Level then u peak outside those 3Great teams an here come #23 in Red wanting a piece BUT WHO COMES OUT ON TOP IN LATE 80'S THE BAD BOYS PISTONS 3PEAT PISTONS! ! !
Ya"LL people R awful quick to be throwin Steph in that #2 spot ..let's talk about Defensive eras and I don't look at Zeke as just a 2time champion either He carried Detroit to that 88 Championship in the greatest Stolen performance we've ever seen So Isiah Really truly was a 3peat Champion in the Greatest Golden era of Magic Bird MJ playing in peak form I don't think we've ever had a situation where all 4 these teams were so close to there peak forms look at Pistons Goin 7games ecf 87 wth the 86 Champs Celtics they were that close to playing in the finals against 87 SHOWTIME LAKERS putting all 3 teams on a elite Level then u peak outside those 3Great teams an here come #23 in Red wanting a piece BUT WHO COMES OUT ON TOP IN LATE 80'S THE BAD BOYS PISTONS 3PEAT PISTONS! ! !
Nah bruh... He's the best pg of that era. The only reason you pick Magic is because he's 6'9". Imagine if he was 6'3... 6'4... 6'5... Or God forbid 6'6"... Y'all don't want to hear it but if he's 6'6" with hands half again as big as MJ's or Doc's... It's a wrap. Zeke was THE dopest PG of his era. The "Flu" game doesn't compare to what he did on a busted ankle. From the BBall I watched, Rondo's dislocated elbow is 2nd in terms of the grittiest games ever played.
I grew up watching him and he was the type of person that he didn't want to lose... I mean no game... He would let the game play out and then he will take over or when need be
Isiah, in spite of his size and being pretty fly, he had a big jump, great shoot, ball handling moving, and determination. He was the main piece for Detroit, and he's the face of the franchise, in historic achievements. He's simply iconic.
Isiah over Stockton.. cmon now lol Longevity is great, but even in longevity, Isiah has more all star appearances, more finals appearances, more finals wins and he was the clear cut LEADER of his team, the leader and best player of the jazz was 13… I mean Karl Malone
He is arguably the best ever for over all point guard play! Magic couldn't shoot or defend 80% of the elite guards of his time! Despite having good teammates he's the only top 50 player that didn't have a top 50 teammate! The narrative that Jordan beat, bird, & magic to dominate the league when actually it was Isiah who defeated them! In 1991 the changed the hand-checking rule & only then did Jordan truly flourish!!The 1988 Finals game 6 phantom foul call is the most blatant & egregious fouls in Finals history!! If not for that you would actually have the first 3 peat since the merger. The dream team slight further damage the view of Isiah s profound impact on the modern NBA game! Love him or hate him every legendary player of the 80's he actually beat on the highest level & when they were either in their prime or close to the end of their prime!! Not to mention he has a winning record against the so-called goat Jordan & that's not up for debate!!
Everyone talks about the great back court duo of Isiah and Joe D, but rarely does Vinnie Johnson get mentioned. The Microwave was essential to the Pistons and they were certainly one of the best 3 guard rotations of all time. The amazing thing is that they were all great combo guards who could handle both point and shooting guard duties.
Without that foul the Pistons win 3 straight titles, and the narrative of the 80's changes significantly. One whistle never did so much for NBA history.
Any ~6' guy who wants to play in the NBA would do well to study Isiah Thomas, the Bad Boy. Tenacity, dedication, loyalty, and the best pure point guard of all time.
I always liked Isaiah. I’m only 21 so I never saw him in his playing years but outside of that I always liked him. He seems like a good guy and he’s pretty damn funny I remember open court and how he always stole the show.
When a man of Jordan's caliber, who hates Thomas, still calls him the best PG of all time behind only Magic, that tells you all you need to know about Zeke. He was truly a special player, and pound for pound, for sure the best PG in the history of the NBA.
I think he would dominate today's NBA. I really think he would. Thomas is a team player he always has been but when he gets it in his mind to be victorious or to achieve a goal, he's going to do it. He was a Non-Stop powerhouse. I watched his entire career especially from 88 on and he is just amazing
The players compared to Isiah Thomas were Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, and Chris Paul. They each had similarities to his game, but none of them have been the complete package.
Zeke is absolutely the greatest Piston of all time and IMO the 2nd greatest PG of all time. He was Jordan's biggest rival and one of the few that could deal with Jordan's super powers. Zeke paved the way for guys like Iverson, Maubary, CP3, Rose, and Westbrook. One of the absolute greatest of all time. Chris Broussard says it often but Zeke was the only player and his Pistons were the only team to beat the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls when they were all still powerhouses in the league. Don't sleep on Zeke.
I'm from Indiana he was so good that saw him at Indiana University and won a championship. One play he stoled the and two defensive players one on one side and one on the other and he was in the middle he went to the hoop and slammed on both of them and that's when I knew that he was special.
I think you’re right in the sense he is a talented we haven’t seen before and may not ever see you again. Pound for pound he may be one of the best basketball players we’ve ever seen. Surely one of the best point guards if not the best point guard we’ve seen. Stay up Zeke.
Thomas obviously above Stockton. Stockton was never the 1st option and his only advantage over him is longevity. Thomas is maybe top 3 or top 4 behind Magic, Curry and maybe Oscar.
The only PG's I could take above him are Magic and Steph. His athleticism and vision were ahead of the times, the only others like that in that era were Dominique Wilkins and MJ.
How do you think he'd fare in today's NBA? Also, thank you to Ridge Wallet for sponsoring this video! Check them out here: ridge.com/andyhoops
Good take on Zeke, But you got to put some RESPECK on BOL BOL,'s name
to, me Zeke is a better PG then Curry .Curry is not a premiere defender nor can he carry the load sometimes but not all the time like Zeke if that 3ball off ,its over! because he not taking no contact
Hi, Andy! Great vid as always.
Speaking of the Bad Boy Pistons, I was wondering maybe if you could do a "How good was Bill Laimbeer actually?" I know that many people only remember him for his dirty plays, but they tend to forget he was a baller. Bill was a multiple-time all-star, great rebounder, and a stretch big who can shoot the lights out from 3.
@@rnuke_rocket I think Bill Laimbeer was the greatest heel in the NBA. A rich white frat boy who played dirty and got under everyone's skin. We could really use more heels in the NBA today. It's no fun watching everyone get along
Isiah played in the most physically demanding era of basketball. He would have impressed more playing in any other time, including today in 2022.
We was the 2nd best point while he played and although longevity might have others placed before him, at his position, Zeke on the court is only bested by a select 2 or 3 guys and in any game he could beat them too.
*Fun fact:* The Detroit Pistons are the only NBA team with multiple championships that never had a league MVP winner.
Raptors too
Raptors only have 1 championship
@@jomarietorralba9049 multiple is the keyword
I stay seeing you on these sports channels. You either have no life or just know how to comment at the right time.
I stay seeing you on these sports channels. You either have no life or just know how to comment at the right time.
Isiah was the engine that drove those pistons teams. Everyone talks about Rodman, Dumars, Lambierr, and how the pistons prided themselves on tough gritty defense, but Isiah set the tone on offense. When he was rolling, the entire team was as well. One of the best PG’s to ever play.
What? I can understand Rodman but I have never heard of anybody talking more about Dumars and Lambier then Isiah
@@castlewhite1577 Oh, MJ and Bird would call Lambier the dirtiest player while Dumars was the one who usually guards against the primary offensive player
Rick Mahorn also Aguire and Vinnie Johnson were underrated as well and played big part in the title teams.
Thomas was the little that could..😁
He set the tone period, it wasn’t just limited to offense.
Nobody truly appreciates Isiah Thomas until you've actually watched footages of him playing. It is difficult also to compare him against player nowadays.He is a complete point guard who can give instant offense and guard good defense. A phenomenom player.
I think Chris Paul would be the closest active player. Both are very high basketball IQ and have clear leadership skills. Isiah seems to have had the ability to also bring out the best in his teammates better than Paul does.
@@ImAlxxy peak paul
Someone asked if Thomas could play in the league today. I think he would be so far away from that Bad Boy image every eye would be on him. With those handles, and the minimal contact allowed in the league right now, how is anyone going to defend against him? He's going to be inside in the paint scoring on near every possession. He is also one of the highest IQ players out there. He knows what is going to happen before the rest of the players on the floor.
@@cdjhyoungIverson and marbury remind me of h
Isiah
Yeah but Marbury was trash 😂 when he kept his head up
Isiah Thomas is easily the best Detroit Piston of all time and the best offensive player in Pistons franchise history by far.
He’s also a top 6 point guard of all time.
3 rings better than none son. Go PISTONS BAD BOYZZ!!!
@@Woozlewuzzleable What a stupidly casual comment to make. Yes they’ve been sucking for the past decade or so but this was way before that. Next time, learn about the NBA before you start saying dumb things.
@@VincentVincent_89top 2 behind magic , Oscar played absolute bums
@@andresdelportillo9917 curry >
Isiah had it all. On top of incredible speed and athleticism, Isiah had ball handling skills, utter deadly coolness in the clutch, soaring basketball I.Q....and an incredible work ethic.
His whole career was an extreme pleasure to watch. Fans and even the media didn't like to see their heroes, Jordan, Magic, Bird, get soundly beaten, again and again.
100%
To win the middle of three dynasties is impressive enough!! To win back to back chips is legendary!! Can’t ever forget that!!
if he didn´t get hurt in 88 and that phantom foul they 3peat! we would discuss isiah as the goat pg because he would have a 3peat 2fvmvp against magic! he is a top 3 pg no debate!
@@reimixo he beat bird magic and mj over 1 season...no one else can claim that
@@razkable if u look at it, 87, steal by bird, One play away from the finals, 88, got hurt and still dominated would have won the finals and fmvp without that call... We would talk about Isiah as a top 5 player probably
from 84-85 when the Pistons were on the rise, to 1990-91, their last season as contenders, when they lost 4-1 to the Bulls in the Conf. finals, Thomas and Co. defeated, or gave a hell of a run, teams led by Wilkins, Bird-Parish-Ainge, Magic-Worthy-Kareem, Drexler-Porter-Duckworth, and of-course Jordan-Pippen. And that ain't bad!
@@Defender78 bird parish mchale DJ* ainge was the 5th guy lol
That's all right fun fact. He was MVP of the 86 and 84 All-Star game an MVP of the 89- 90 Championship 🏆🏆🏆
Great that you called out that Babyface Assassin nickname. One of my biggest memories of Isiah Thomas is his constant smile.
I’m glad this video was made. I didn’t start watching hoops until 1991 so I missed most of zekes peak years but dude was a monster. Imagine almost 3 peating with MJ Bird and Magic in the league 😮
The Pistons were eliminated in 87 and 88 on the out come of single plays. In 87 Bird intercepted an inbound that turned into a score that turned a Piston victory and trip to the finals in to a Piston loss and a game seven they didn't win. In 87 Lambier got called for a foul that never happened. Kareem's two free throws won that game seven for the Lakers. But for two plays the Piston could have been four time Champions to close out the 80's.
Good ol' Zeke. Oh yeah he was such a great player and it's a shame that he was hated because of the reputation of the Bad Boy Pistons of being dirty and borderline dangerous.
Thank you giving Zeke the thumbs up. He is the best PG of all time.
Isiah Thomas best point guard ever ,favorite player ,leader of a team that made the word team matter most...yes definitely deserved more champs go Pistons
Isiah thomas is toughest player in the 80's . Doesnt give a damn whoever superstar he's facing.His mindset is im the best this game doesnt flinch in rough moments. Bad boys nickname is made cause of his tough personality and later on inflict it to the whole team. Probably top 20 of the alltime greats
Zeke is very underrated, feel like he’s often missed in the convos of greatest PGs
Severely underrated. For the longest time and still even today, ppl would put Stockton over IT, when Stockton never achieved as much as IT did.
He’s 3rd best PG no debate.
@@Spider-Complexion unlike stock zeke could score on the bulls
@@Spider-Complexion I like Thomas but I’ve got Stockton over him more rings doesn’t automatically make you better
@@Inktownicon you have to be joking. Isiah is clearly better than John Stockton. I'm completely baffled at how this has even become a debate in recent years. I guess Isiah's stock - no pun intended - has dropped due to a combination of different things, like the Last Dance drama, the Knicks fiasco, and the younger generation who didn't actually watch them play and just make it about Stockton's career stats without really knowing the proper context for them (durability, system, way less of a scoring responsibility than Isiah, not to mention some of the assists numbers in Utah might be a bit sketchy, etc.) That would be my theory, but either way, it's absurd that anyone would put Stockton over Isiah Thomas.
It's highly debatable if there was ever a time during which Stockton was the best PG in the league. His greatness lies more in his durability, consistency, blue-collar attitude, sort of like Robert Parish at the point. He was a top 5 PG for 12-13 years. That's impressive as hell. But he was never an MVP level talent like Zeke and he never had to carry a team.
Bottom line: whatever you want to say about the "Bad Boys" or Zeke specifically, there's simply no comparison here talent wise.
He is Jordan’s greatest rival!! Do people forget he is 3-1 against 23 in the playoffs??? Come on man, he’s up there as a legend!!
Facts✔
As a pistons fan I can agree with that! Let it be known
@@bradysovern and Jordan still more rings lmaoooo
I mean joe dumars was the one who was really guarding Mike tho
Not sure I'd call him MJ's greatest rival (MJ won more rings), but he was definitely MJ's greatest obstacle towards the championship
Tbh I’m not sure how ppl had Stockton over Thomas, when he had the much greater success for his career and in the midst of dominant dynasties too.
25 points in a quarter, on a bad ankle, doing it as a small guard, and during the NBA finals is crazy. IT was a walking bucket, could run an offense, and could play defense.
He’s def the 3rd greatest PG to me behind Curry and then Magic.
How can you argue about Stockton being the 2nd greatest PG of all time? Lete think... Oh, look at his assists numbers!!! The PG is the floor general, and nobody controled the floor like Stockton besides Magic. Steps and IT scored more, thats
@@javigar133 Yeah... and Stephs defense is balls compared to the others, so he's off that list as well for me.
Stockton was a pass-first PG. Not sure how much of a leader he was however. And he wasn't much of a killer/closer.
Magic was a break-first PG (and his size gave him flashy passes too). Playboy, leader by happiness
Zeke was neither, but more of a hard-nosed leader, like jordan, kobe, or kidd. and a killer on both ends of the floor.
Steph.... the floor general is Green, he's just an amazing scorer.
I have Zeke over John Stockton!
Your either deluded or racist. Stockton is the GOAT at pg.... accept it.
Well, Stockton is also an all-time NBA steals (a record that's not going to be broken anytime soon)
12 CONSECUTIVE all star apperance in his 13 season is extremely dominant for a point guard back in the day. Imagine if it wasn't for that 1 foul on Kareem and him not getting injured and lasting 17/18 seasons, he could be top 3 easy.
Isiah passed like Nash for 3 quarters
Scored like AI in the 4th
that’s the perfect explanation for zeke game literally 😂😂😂
Isiah Thomas was the best team leader I've ever seen. He was the brain and commander in chief of the Pistons. Leadership: 10/10
Finally someone made this. One of the greatest PG of all time. Around top 3-5 if you ask me
Possibly 2nd... Difficult
Who's better 🤔🤔he busted Magic azz in the Finals!!! Ok I get it if you say Steph but that's where it stops
I have him top 4-5. Jerry west is a PG
Or 3rd
@@shawtyeatemup1352 Steph is overrated as a PG.
I’m glad you did this my boy Zeke a Chicago legend no cap 💯
Isaiah Thomas is a top five point guard of all time some say he's in the top two behind Magic he was that good
I would say it goes magic curry zeke robertson cp3 in that order....
@@razkablecp0 rings is not top 5
He was way better than Magic
@@razkable what about Stockton?
@@razkable Yall are really delusional about curry
He’s definitely one of the point guards of all time
Underrated on Twitter and most disrespected
Anywhere from 1 to 3.
I'm with Mike on this one. Second greatest point guard of all time behind Magic Johnson. His career was cut short because of his tenacity and sheer will to win. He would sacrifice ANYTHING to win, including his reputation and even his body, which eventually took a toll. Shame he was cut from The Dream Team. He's the kind of player you are going to hate if you're playing against him, but if he's on your team, you know you've got somebody who is willing to win at ALL costs.
Thanks Andy for showing Homage to the 5th player on the All-NBA first team of the 80s still the greatest era of Basketball TO THIS DAY!!
You really did him some justice with this video. Greatest pure point guard ever.
As a MJ fan, I had a lot to hate about IT especially when he led the Bad Boy Pistons. But you can't let bad narratives/dirty plays take away from his talent.
I just wish that one day MJ and Isiah could sit down together and bury all the animosity between them.
Tell me 1 person you can say you saw him hit & it was dirty. Tell me 1
@@k.b8684 Right. Not one person.
@@daevonthesavage7483 These 2 guys are my top 1A and 1B favorite players ever. Isiah needs to let it go and stop talking about MJ. MJ needs to let it go and stop holding a grudge. They need to sit down and talk.
@@aaronflowers8881 I know. But the way Mike is and the way Zeke is, That might not ever happen and they in their 60s now
Even MJ said he is the 2nd greatest PG behind Magic, despite their mutual animosity.
Isiah Thomas was the greatest point guard of his era. To call him "the second best point guard behind Magic Johnson is underrating Isiah. Isiah was was already the NBA's best point guard by 1984-85 season. Magic's NBA career started on third base. The Lakers were always the most stacked with talent in the NBA. Isiah's ascent up the NBA ladder started from the very bottom. Isiah was better better than Magic offensively and defensively.
We gotta actually thank Isiah and the pistons for making MJ who he is, if it wasn’t for them MJ and The Bulls wouldn’t have been the tough and mentally tough Bulls people knew in the 90’s that won 6 championships
yes good thing Stern started protecting Jordan and changed the rules
So tough those Bulls….
@@rafikz77 jordan wasn't only one who didn't like the pistons and demanded Stern to change the rules. Guys like mchale and Barkley also complained so r narrative isn't true
@@tj5180 so basically those guys couldn’t actually survive physical era
I thought Jordan was tough
@@rafikz77 people get on my nerves saying Jordan went and complaned to Stern. You never have any evidence.
@@aaronflowers8881 Hom and Phil complained openly
Jordan even said publicly he was thinking about retiring 😂
Bald soft whiner tbh
If you consider the era he played in, the fact there were no allstars in his quad, and the level of competition he faced in that Eastern conference, beating the bulls, Celtics and Lakers... He should easily be a serious top 10 contender and second PG to Magic
Man can't forget Philly and Bucks too... That east was crazy
Dumars, Laimbeer, Rodman were all stars you i/mbecile
@@nonamewillbegiven6847orry you had to be so rude in your reply. You are correct, they are all super stars, but only one of them led the team to back to back championships. If I remember correctly, it was Isaiah and team that helped a young Rodmen to become a superstar, Lambier was a tough inside man and shooter, but Isaiah's ability as an all around leader, player, scorer, passer helped highlight Lambiers skillset both inside and giving him open floor shots, and while Dumars was a great all around player, his three point shooting was a killer weapon as Isiah pulled double and triple team, freeing Dumars to lay down the three.
@@johnperez3420 you dont remember correctly then. Stop giving Isiah credit he dont deserve. Dumb@ss
Best point guard I’ve ever seen
3rd greatest PG of all time to me… right after Magic & Curry.. Isaiah able to change his game from the early 80s of (high scoring, flashiness) to the late 80s with defense & team first & to win chips.. not many PLAYERS can do that and he did it, while beating 3 of the top 7 players of all time!! He’s 3rd and he was 2nd to me before Steph won that last chip and finals mvp… along with Moses Malone, Isiah is underrated
You can argue him or Curry all day. Dont forget Stockton
@@javigar133 Curry isn't in there. Love the guy, but he's a pure scorer first. Great motor, but it shows that he was the number one target every time he has to play defense. Maybe not fair because they play 5 out and zeke or magic had a center to clean up, but I can't shake the feeling that if you can't hold up defensively, you can't be the greatest at your position. You need to be in the top 20 or so for both offense and defense, and I don't think Curry gets there. But that's a feeling, maybe there's an advanced metric.
Magic had his size working for him.
There's a reason why people rate Stockton that high. He wasn't a flashy scorer, and the best pass-first PG... but still a monster on the defense.
Shutup Jones and Curry aint 2nd best
@@javigar133 no Curry. M\oron
@@cptfwiffo he was the best pass first PG you i/diot and he valued passing over scoring so foh with your not a flashy scorer nonsense
Zeke was Kyrie before Kyrie. Met him briefly here in NYC
I find it hilarious that someone so nasty and irritating on the court sounds so warm, calm, and inviting when he speaks as an analyst on TV. If I didn't know better I would've never guessed that Isiah was this kind of player based on how he speaks.
In my honest opinion, I actually think he is the best point guard of all time. Can pass when he needed to, shoot very well with decent amount of attempts, can play defense, exceptional handles.
Magic - definitely the most recognizable, flashy and influential point guard, but lack the shooting and defense
Curry - not the best player in the team all the time and average on defense
Price - have all the skills, but too injury prone
Stockton - can shoot, but he pass too much and relied too much on Malone's scoring
Nash - same as Stockton
Kidd - had a shooting problem as well
Tell me what I said wrong.
There's not much you said that I would disagree with, but I would definitely add that Magic toward the end of his career before his first abrupt retirement in 91, had made himself into a respectable shooter from the outside. He was always around 50% from the field and even with the 3 point shot not being close to utilized (or OVER utilized) in it's infancy during the 80's compared to today, Magic still shot a career best 38% from 3 in 88-89. And Earv was FAR more than just flashy and influential. He was an absolute floor general, leader and competitor of the HIGHEST order, who made ALL his teammates better and possesed RARE championship winning intangibles. That's why he's #1 all-time PG for me, although I don't have a problem with anyone arguing Zeke.
Also Steph may not have been the best INDIVIDUAL player when KD was there, but he was unquestionably the best player before and after, and especially on the 2 title teams without KD, and even w/KD, he was still the most important player. They had a significantly better record in games Steph played and KD missed vs. games KD played and Steph missed.
@Riles3152 i had Isiah at 2 until steph won in 22... only because at that point both had 2 championship 🏆 as the Leader of his team AND two MVPs..
While i understand with Magic 🎩 Bird 🐦 and Jordan in the leauge it woud be near impossible for Zek to win a MVP... but Steph got them none the less and now they effectively tied at 2 championship a piece
@@Riles3152 Magic always had a pass first shoot as a last resort mindset. That was the dis on him coming out of MSU. You can see how it hurt him, not. I think he was a better shooter than his stat line suggests. So many of his shots came when he was off balance and trying to still find an open man.
You left out two of the greatest - Oscar Robertson and Bob Cousey. You don't have a greatest list without them.
Isaiah was overly physical. Used excessive fouls. He is top 6 or so. But Stockton was a better defender impo.
Isiah was vastly underrated, primarily because people didn't "like" him. Ironically, they didn't "like" him initially because he was uber-competitive and built a great team in the era of 3 Megastars; Magic, Bird, and Jordan. So, Isiah played the villain role (from Detroit, no less).
All the unwarranted hate aside, Isiah is one of the two best point guards ever to play basketball. Magic is the other.
For those among you who didn't get to see Isiah play live back in his days, find some TH-cam on Isiah, sit back, and enjoy!
I grew up with this team! And I still feel to this day that he's one of the greatest!! He is way too overlooked!
Agreed 100%. I hate how they NBA seems to never acknowledge Isiah or the Pistons when they show championship or legends compilations during commercials. Granted, the Bad Boys weren't liked... but it's been 30 YEARS!!! Frankly, I think a lot of "Detroit vs Everybody" (which other cities copy on hats and shirts) is emulated best by the Bad Boys era Pistons.
Isiah Thomas and the rest of Detroit Pistons (BadBoys) is the epitome of Beginning and end of an ERA, they end the magic and bird era in the 80s while molding the jordan era in the 90s
Behind Magic I think he is right there, from assist to point, field goal. Because he play in the era game was build around big man therefore a lot see him as underrate.
Great video. Would love to see one on Gary Payton. I feel like he gets disrespected a lot in top5 point guard discussions, almost never do I hear his name mentioned, while he's easily in my top3.
Zeke gets lost in the shuffle of all time great PGs. Could play in any era, especially todays era where the little man does most of the scoring. He had great handles and could deinitely shoot the 3 when he wanted to.
One word... Great 🏀
Most balanced player of all time could do everything u need a true guard to do
@BloodyJasonMask no he definitely had a pull up around the mid to free throw range, no three point shooting though yes
@BloodyJasonMask it hit when it mattered but compared to the shooting of todays guards, yeah he can’t hold a candle😂
Best pure point guard in history, no question, no ifs ands or buts.
Big time respect for the GP/McMillan mention ✊🏾🔥🔥
To me he was the best point guard in that era !!! Magic couldn’t handle him
Swap their drafted teams, don't think Magic would have done anything in Detroit. Isiah would have won more rings than Magic did with that All-star roster in the weak west
One of the best ever 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Isaiah Thomas best franchise player in Pistons history 🔥🔥🔥
As a die hard knicks fan I really liked this video . I'd say this is one of your top 5 or 3 video of all time
As far as backcourt pressure the 2004 Pistons had the “Pit Bulls” off the bench in Lindsey Hunter and Mike James. Hunter was the last player I saw defend on the ball like that.
Love this content 💞
Debatably 3rd best Point Guard of all time. Not shabby at all considering the company. He'll always be my #1 favorite player regardless of ranking.
Simple, before steph curry, he was the 2nd greatest PG in nba history
Stockton???
@@javigar133 No
Ya"LL people R awful quick to be throwin Steph in that #2 spot ..let's talk about Defensive eras and I don't look at Zeke as just a 2time champion either He carried Detroit to that 88 Championship in the greatest Stolen performance we've ever seen So Isiah Really truly was a 3peat Champion in the Greatest Golden era of Magic Bird MJ playing in peak form I don't think we've ever had a situation where all 4 these teams were so close to there peak forms look at Pistons Goin 7games ecf 87 wth the 86 Champs Celtics they were that close to playing in the finals against 87 SHOWTIME LAKERS putting all 3 teams on a elite Level then u peak outside those 3Great teams an here come #23 in Red wanting a piece BUT WHO COMES OUT ON TOP IN LATE 80'S THE BAD BOYS PISTONS 3PEAT PISTONS! ! !
Ya"LL people R awful quick to be throwin Steph in that #2 spot ..let's talk about Defensive eras and I don't look at Zeke as just a 2time champion either He carried Detroit to that 88 Championship in the greatest Stolen performance we've ever seen So Isiah Really truly was a 3peat Champion in the Greatest Golden era of Magic Bird MJ playing in peak form I don't think we've ever had a situation where all 4 these teams were so close to there peak forms look at Pistons Goin 7games ecf 87 wth the 86 Champs Celtics they were that close to playing in the finals against 87 SHOWTIME LAKERS putting all 3 teams on a elite Level then u peak outside those 3Great teams an here come #23 in Red wanting a piece BUT WHO COMES OUT ON TOP IN LATE 80'S THE BAD BOYS PISTONS 3PEAT PISTONS! ! !
Steph is not a point guard. He's a 2-guard.
Zeke is nasty! Top 3 point guard in my book
He is number 2 behind Magic! You have to give him his flowers. For a guy his size he was dominant. Stats don't lie.
Nah bruh...
He's the best pg of that era. The only reason you pick Magic is because he's 6'9".
Imagine if he was 6'3...
6'4...
6'5...
Or God forbid 6'6"...
Y'all don't want to hear it but if he's 6'6" with hands half again as big as MJ's or Doc's...
It's a wrap.
Zeke was THE dopest PG of his era.
The "Flu" game doesn't compare to what he did on a busted ankle.
From the BBall I watched, Rondo's dislocated elbow is 2nd in terms of the grittiest games ever played.
@@robertcherry7190 No people pick Magic because of 5 championships.
Zeke! The greatest Hoosier ever :)
I grew up watching him and he was the type of person that he didn't want to lose... I mean no game... He would let the game play out and then he will take over or when need be
I recommend everyone watch the bad boys documentary, it was really really good
@texas barbecue sauce 30 for 30: Bad Boys
Yeah it was great.
Isiah, in spite of his size and being pretty fly, he had a big jump, great shoot, ball handling moving, and determination. He was the main piece for Detroit, and he's the face of the franchise, in historic achievements. He's simply iconic.
Great video
Awesome wallet and KeyCase 🙌
GREAT comparison between Zeke and Dumars to Payton MacMillan!!! Earned the LIKE!!!
Isiah over Stockton.. cmon now lol Longevity is great, but even in longevity, Isiah has more all star appearances, more finals appearances, more finals wins and he was the clear cut LEADER of his team, the leader and best player of the jazz was 13… I mean Karl Malone
Nope
Troll
And Malone lives rent free in your empty head
He is arguably the best ever for over all point guard play! Magic couldn't shoot or defend 80% of the elite guards of his time! Despite having good teammates he's the only top 50 player that didn't have a top 50 teammate! The narrative that Jordan beat, bird, & magic to dominate the league when actually it was Isiah who defeated them! In 1991 the changed the hand-checking rule & only then did Jordan truly flourish!!The 1988 Finals game 6 phantom foul call is the most blatant & egregious fouls in Finals history!! If not for that you would actually have the first 3 peat since the merger. The dream team slight further damage the view of Isiah s profound impact on the modern NBA game! Love him or hate him every legendary player of the 80's he actually beat on the highest level & when they were either in their prime or close to the end of their prime!! Not to mention he has a winning record against the so-called goat Jordan & that's not up for debate!!
Nobody:
Andy: unprecedented 😆🤣
0:45 seriously he almost looks the same to this day
Isiah was one of the best hands down, he got robbed of every opportunity to get on the dream team but he will be the best point guards in my mind
36-29 record against MJ
Not a real record
Troll
one of the GOATs
Everyone talks about the great back court duo of Isiah and Joe D, but rarely does Vinnie Johnson get mentioned. The Microwave was essential to the Pistons and they were certainly one of the best 3 guard rotations of all time. The amazing thing is that they were all great combo guards who could handle both point and shooting guard duties.
Without that foul the Pistons win 3 straight titles, and the narrative of the 80's changes significantly. One whistle never did so much for NBA history.
There was a game 7 stop it, they had one more chance
Any ~6' guy who wants to play in the NBA would do well to study Isiah Thomas, the Bad Boy. Tenacity, dedication, loyalty, and the best pure point guard of all time.
I guess I'm one of the few outside of Detroit who did like the Bad Boys since I lived in California during their run...
I miss the iconic Andy Hoops horns at the start of your videos ✊😩
Hey Andy I am a huge fan!!!! The next time you make an how good was he actually video you should do Baron Davis
The league had to make new defensive rules cause of the mastery by the early to mid 2000 piston teams under Joooe Duuumarsss ala Ken Calvert 😂
I’m tired of JOE DUMARS NEVER GETTING RESPECT FOR BEING A LEADING SCORER AND BEST DEFENDER OF THAT PISTONS ERA WITH ZEKE…underrated pfft
I always liked Isaiah. I’m only 21 so I never saw him in his playing years but outside of that I always liked him. He seems like a good guy and he’s pretty damn funny I remember open court and how he always stole the show.
My favorite player of all time.
He was the best point guard ever
#TogetherEvery1AchievesMore TEAM‼️
Top 3 point guard of all-time!
When a man of Jordan's caliber, who hates Thomas, still calls him the best PG of all time behind only Magic, that tells you all you need to know about Zeke. He was truly a special player, and pound for pound, for sure the best PG in the history of the NBA.
I think he would dominate today's NBA. I really think he would. Thomas is a team player he always has been but when he gets it in his mind to be victorious or to achieve a goal, he's going to do it. He was a Non-Stop powerhouse. I watched his entire career especially from 88 on and he is just amazing
Please do Mark Price once?
Hy Andy🔥🔥 another How Good video Zeke was clutch and he sacrificed his numbers for the team
He is a top 50 player, hall of famer, legend come on lol we all know this
Zeke could have average 25 and 10 each game but he chose winning over stats. To me he is the second great PG of all time.
The players compared to Isiah Thomas were Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, and Chris Paul. They each had similarities to his game, but none of them have been the complete package.
Zeke is absolutely the greatest Piston of all time and IMO the 2nd greatest PG of all time. He was Jordan's biggest rival and one of the few that could deal with Jordan's super powers. Zeke paved the way for guys like Iverson, Maubary, CP3, Rose, and Westbrook. One of the absolute greatest of all time. Chris Broussard says it often but Zeke was the only player and his Pistons were the only team to beat the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls when they were all still powerhouses in the league.
Don't sleep on Zeke.
Shutup princess
The Bulls werent powerhouses yet you i/diot
@@nonamewillbegiven B***** says what?
@@SSJ2Phenom says you b.itch
Best PG ever.
I'm a big fan and supporter of the Detroit Pistons and for me Isiah is a legend: my favorite player of all time! 😎
I'm from Indiana he was so good that saw him at Indiana University and won a championship. One play he stoled the and two defensive players one on one side and one on the other and he was in the middle he went to the hoop and slammed on both of them and that's when I knew that he was special.
I think you’re right in the sense he is a talented we haven’t seen before and may not ever see you again. Pound for pound he may be one of the best basketball players we’ve ever seen. Surely one of the best point guards if not the best point guard we’ve seen. Stay up Zeke.
Nah Stockton over isiah is wild🤣
Jaylen Brown next video Andy Hoops 🙏🙏🙏
Thomas obviously above Stockton. Stockton was never the 1st option and his only advantage over him is longevity. Thomas is maybe top 3 or top 4 behind Magic, Curry and maybe Oscar.
The only PG's I could take above him are Magic and Steph. His athleticism and vision were ahead of the times, the only others like that in that era were Dominique Wilkins and MJ.
It was a tragedy Thomas what's snubbed from the dream team.