I’m passionate about helping the 4wd community and I'm developing an online course so i can help as many people as I can to get out there and wheel well on their 4wd adventures. To register your interest and for free and exclusive training videos visit madmatt4wd.com.au/register
Matt, I'm new to your channel. This video is spot on, and I have found all of your content to be insightful, realistic, and informative. I am an American engineer, manufacturer, and life long 4WD enthusiast. I know BS when I see it, and I see a LOT of it! Your channel is excellent, and I recommend it to my friends. If I may expand just a bit on some of your points here. Yes, poly and rubber both have a place. They work entirely differently, as you mentioned. Bonded rubber does have the limitation that it can only flex so far without tearing or simply holding it's position. A good example is in a leaf spring bushing. Vehicles designed for very high articulation can benefit from poly because the poly actually rotates in it's mount, where the rubber does not. You are also correct that the poly joint must be designed properly for poly, and the correct durometer material must be used. This type of engineering is sadly not done by many aftermarket providers. It is frankly shocking. I have even reached out to some of these companies and offered to help them, and they don't even reply. Most non-race applications require lower durometer poly, but many aftermarket suppliers offer race spec poly. That is a huge mistake. Also many problems arise from replacing rubber with poly in a joint that was designed for rubber. Again, the joint must be deigned for the material being used. Poly rubbing steel is a recipe fr creating a squeak monster. One last point. When poly rubs against steel with some abrasive in between like dirt, the steel will actually wear much faster than the poly! There is a lot more to unpack about this subject. Kudos to you for bringing some light to this subject, because the average off roader really has no clue how any of this works.
wow...first to comment. I bought PU bushes for a simple reason: they are easy to install, no press needed. Easy to install means easy to replace even if they fail earlier.
I just swapped out all the rubber on rear leafs and shackles on my 88 4runner ...im a fan. Theyre now in my upper and lower arms in the front and as i mentioned the rear. Theure stiffer but you do get a distinct sense of how the suspension is working . Its easier to "feel" whats happening . Great channel brother .
Good opinion. I use rubber on all suspension components, and polyurethane on engine transmission and transfer case mounts. The Poly definitely lasts longer with oil leaking down on it. Delrin is Superior
Nice work Matt. I always used poly in the rally cars front ends to keep them stiff, but in the 4WD I go for rubber myself because I have seen some vehicles, not Datsuns or Yotas, that have cracked components because the poly doesn't flex as much as you say. Have a good one mate
I really like poly for the body mounts. The are under compression. Improved my ride over the worn rubber and has a better connected feel to the road and trail.
Dear Matt thankyou for the best explaination of this I have ever seen. I replaced my suspension on my 40th anniversary with a full Pedders upgrade. Standard height hd Springs shocks nolethane bushes. It transformed the cruiser. But I was only using this vehicle for extremely heavy duty towing. A Noelex 30! It performed really well because it elimated any sideways movement. So much more stable. However I also have other vehicles and its abundantly clear that for their use that rubber is definitely the way to go! Many thanks
Hi Matt. Great video. And great topic. I will offer a comment here based on my own 4wd touring experience and specifically with regard to leaf spring bushes. I have a hzj75 troopcarrier and as you probably know the 75 series is a fully leaf sprung vehicle front and rear. I have done extensive outback travelling and my personal opinion is that polyurethane bushes are totally unsuitable for this type of application. I was replacing bushes as frequently as 10 - 15000km The poly bushes would disintegrate and the leaf spring pins would eat through them and start pounding into the spring eye. After much soul searching and contemplation I went to toyota and back to the original rubber bush specification for their leaf springs and now, 75000km later, they are still perfect and they ride better than the poly bushes ever did. So for me there's no doubt that a (quality) rubber bush is the best way to go for leaf springs on a heavily loaded outback tourer. I think greasable poly bushes in heavily loaded leaf springs vehicles are a waste of time and that is from many thousands of kilometers of outback experience. Of course the situation could be different in other applications (i.e. shocks or stabilizers or radius arms) but i doubt it really. Toyota usually knows best...........
I have no opinion, I'm not a trail rider, my 4x4 F150 helps me stay out of snow banks and helps in deep snow. I just wanted to give you a comment. I do enjoy your trail outings videos.
Thanks Matt. I don't own a 4x4 but I want to fix my gearbox mount on my Ford SUV using DIY polyurethane mount. So I am studying everything I can about poly. Thank you very educational tonnes of love my brother from South Africa.
Super helpful and well informed perspective. Thank you!! I find a lot people try to switch to poly just because it's aftermarket and a 'mod' so must be better... but alas. I think installing quality OE bushings is best most of the time, except for vertical-press applications such as shocks as you say. I think a big point to note is to stay away from cheap Chinese aftermarket rubber bushings - the durometer on the rubber is all wrong and they disintegrate. But quality Toyota, Nissan, or whatever your OE bushings are and safe yourself a headache down the line.
Well Stated . Clearly said and Zero Bullshit . My take on your explanation there says , Live Axles go for Rubber , whereas , Independent suspension , like a Hummer or the Front End of your average SUV , would probably go better with Poly .
When and if these Poly Bushings wear out, I'm replacing them with Rubber. The Poly turn my rig into a one man band with all the squeeking and racket they make. I can't put ENOUGH grease in those things. Greetings from California...
from my experience , you are correct. On the old Mitsubishi challenger I only found Pu bushes any good for the front anti roll bar - even then they squeak after a while. I tried Pu for the trailing arms on the rear - too stiff & as you said , less flex . Tried them for front wishbones - grit got in within 2 months & wore the wishbone bores , had to replace wishbones & use rubber bushes - lesson learnt.
Hi Matt. We invented Polyurethane bushes (hence our name) and you're mostly very right in what you're saying here! A lot of brands manufacture their bushes for grease, in fact, we believe we're the only brand that does NOT want grease anywhere near our bushes - As you've rightly said, grease and dirt don't go well together. Grinding paste aside, If the tube moves in the bush or the bush moves in the arm, it's not a bush, it's a bearing and on a 4WD suspension system in most cases it's not what you want. The hard thing is understanding what hardness your bushes are, what hardness the polyurethane bushes are then noting the differences, let's say you've got an old Land Rover (we're from the UK hence the comparison) the original hardness of the O.E.M bushes were 65 Shore A (Durometer) and in most cases, manufacturers are selling their bushes at 85a or even 95a! This is a HUGE increase in stiffness, this will, as you say, reduce flex, so if your goal is flex and the ability for the suspension to track uneven ground, you want to go down the Duro range, if you want reduced deflection and a point and shoot drive like on a track car, you want to go up! (This isn't a sales pitch, but for information only) We offer our Landy bushes in 3 grades, 65a (Comfort) 75a (Dynamic) and 85a (Performance) so you can really pick what you want. Some of our customers have even had their bushes on their trucks for 30+ years! So it really IS just about specifying the right hardness - We have a video explaining this if anyone is interested. Reading the comments there is some saying that Polyurethane bushes can crack or disintegrate. This can be the case as not all Polyurethane is the same, anyone can 3d print a mould and make some in a garage or a shed, but to correctly manufacture safety critical parts a lot more time, effort and skill are involved. For example, it takes around 24 hours to manufacture 1 bush in our British Factory. I hope that helps your audience pick the right parts, be that from us or from another manufacturer in their region or for their vehicle.
Thanks so much for a very helpful and mature comment. Since filming this I’ve learned more on these bushes through using them on my racecar in the rear lower control arms. These arms move through an ark mostly and the bushes survived very very well considering the abuse I gave them.
You’ve got a great website! I’ve had good experiences with polyurethane bushings in the past, but when I did that truck I did not find the choices in hardness that you offer. I’m very glad that you have components for Subaru Foresters. New customer here!
I learned this the hard way, on my first fourby (a 93 4runner) I fell for the marketing hype and fitted Nolathane bushes front to back, it made a significant increase in road noise and harsh ride, as well as robbing me of a fair amount of my already limited rear flex. When I got my next fourby (90 series prado) I experimented with different brands and their effects, I found Superpro had the closest equivalent to rubber, which suited most of my use. I ended up with Superpro on my rear shocks, my upper rear control arms, lower front control arms and my panhard rod (the rod was a challenge as it was a prototype, not many people modifying prados back then). I left the rubber bushes in my rear lower control arms because they twisted more than the top ones. My front upper control arms just used the bushes that came with it because aftermarket UCAs weren't available in Australia at the time (so whatever Total Chaos uses is what I had), and my front shocks used heim joints. So it took a lot of mixing and matching, but I got the best compromise of flex and comfort for my use. That said, on my current Hilux, I've just been lazy and left factory rubber in everything :)
Your video is amazing, i think the selection of which pushing to use depends on the roads someone is driving onto and depends on the car someone is using
Rubber, Bush the talk every bloke needs to hear. 😊 Well informed Matt I replaced the suspension in our 80 a year ago. Used both. Interesting to see what it looks like now Keep up the good 👍
I've just recently replaced my panhard rod bushes on my gu from poly to OEM rubber. What a difference in ride quality. Soaks up so much more of the hardness. Made it a more pleasurable drive.
I think these are all good facts to consider and are helpful to understand how and why things work. For me poly wins due to the fact it takes like 90 seconds to change out poly, OEM rubber is usually super expensive and aftermarket rubber is all over the map for quality and durometer (at least in the states).
@@MadMatt4WD how come rubber is changed less often? I would have thought the poly bushes would last a lot longer being harder and more resistant to oils/solvents ect?
Our heavy 4x4 Fords (02 Excursion and 79 Bronco) have polyurethane all around. Would never go back to rubber as it tends to fail from severe use. Polyurethane holds up and yields a great ride quality. I can see a light vehicle such as a Toyota would have a punishing ride with polyurethane.
You pointed out something that I wasn't thinking about. I have a leaf sprung samurai and it destroys factory rubber style bushings, and my only option is poly bushings, but I don't want the suspension to be stiffer. So I'm going to go ahead and go poly and see how they work on my samurai. but yeah I wasn't thinking about it making the suspension stiffer. Either way thanks for the video.
@@MadMatt4WD yeah I don't think it will affect my samurai as much as it does your vehicle. the bushings that I ordered , I believe have like a splined look on the inside and I think its so they flex a little. but we will see what it does.
On my old disco the rubber ones lasts way longer as I was going off roading every second week. I would just destroy the neoprene ones in no time and then it would just wander on the freeway a couple of inches side to side at speed. Also have a Ranger with lots of mods , both twin locked.
Thanks Matt, really valuable information and good on Terrain Tamer. I have a Discovery and stick with factory rubber bushes hearing repeated comments of poly bushes flogging out quickly my scenario. That is, high flex high country work and I now understand why. ☺️
The more i know the more i know that i dont know.😅 I do know however, My 4wd spends more time at woolworths then in the mud and also i fall for hype/marketing. But i am leaning towards gradually swapping bushing with superpro and see if things like handling are noteable. Im guessing If there is anything noteworth it would be because the old bushes are 20 years old. Thanks for your content matt 👍
Theoretically, lowering the friction in the suspension linkage, which acts as damping, should allow the shocks to work better because the damping curve will be more linear. But a lot of these vehicles are designed for the bushing to flex, so you don't want a PU bushing there. In my bike I have cartridge bearings and there's almost zero friction.
Really great video. I just installed poly bushes (IPD and some Superpro) throughout my Volvo 240 RWD wagon. I torqued everything to the Bentley guide specs, which are based on OEM Volvo rubber bushes. I’m now wondering polys need to be torqued a little less than rubber because of the different the mating surface on poly vs rubber? I’m going to retorque everything tomorrow and thought I’d ask.
For bushings Polyurethane is higher maintenance needs greasing or else it will squeak. For spring seats and isolator that has no twisting motion Polyurethane are best they don't disintegrate over time and they don't compress
Hello , which bushing model do you suggest for a toyota yaris 2010 sedan model ? For a moment i was thinking about opting for the polyurethane every where. Now after the video i am reconsidering. I still have the factory stock ones.🤔
I prefer to use rubber bushings for my toyota landcruiser 100 series from toyota company, because they last very long and you get a softer ride, however, in areas where the suspension dont flex as much, using poly is no problem.
I have used poly superpro in certain areas of my patrol. Both panhards at the diff end only And radius arms chasis end only. Rest is all pedders and or genine nissan rubber. Mud has stuffed all my rubber bushes. Replaced twice now.
@@MadMatt4WD basicly full sending it in bog holes causes max flex in bush, hot and cold they deteriorated cracked. Then again my mates pedders poly bushes cracked also under same circumstances, uses a mix of both like i do now.
Very helpful thank you. I can’t help but notice that beautiful Toyota in back for you what year is that because I would like to put those lights in my third generation if possible thanks again
I recently added nolathane castor correction bushes to my Gu patrol. They are a press in bush and also have a large area taken out underneath the bolt tube for flex. They flex better than my rubber ones and also brakes 100% better I did fit them myself as I am a mechanic and have a press at work. Wouldn't go back to rubber for castor bushes now but would definitely run rubber for the back of the leading arms to the chassis!
@@MadMatt4WD only thing changed was castor correction bushes. When I applied the brakes prior it felt sloppy and wondering over the road I just lived with it as it's a patrol on 33s. After fitting the bushes that has completely gone I was unaware that it would affect the braking aspects this much!
Ok so as expected it's given you steering control under breaks. You don't actually have better breaks just more control. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the bushes in a years time.
@@MadMatt4WD I don't do any off roading and drive a fiat so I can only talk from road use 😆. From the research I have done Powerflex bushes can cause issues as they tend to bind from excessive material and this is generally what people complain about with poly bushes. It would be interesting to see your thoughts on them after some use, hopefully they aren't too firm for your application.
It is a mix match, as you stated - I have found not all Polyurethane is as hard as the one you showed. Some are soft that gives a the ride close to rubber- I have used Powerflex in Vanagons, which I mostly drive on logging roads, and the ride is nice, and they last. The really hard Poly will make the ride stiffer - I do not like that, regardless of longevity. One question how long will you be keeping the car. Poly cost a lot more than rubber.
I literally fitted up my lower radius arm bushes on my 80 yesterday. 2 degree rubber bushes for the front and poly bushes on the back of the radius arm for a bit more flex.
@@MadMatt4WD I bought the car with standard sagged suspension. I chucked in some lovells 2 inch springs but it threw out the castor and the front tail shift angle wasn't the best. So the 2 degree bushes are solid rubber and at the back of the arm are the poly bushes. I have fitted up some efs 3 inch shocks for more travel. Extended brake lines and springs retainers getting fitted this week. And chuck the front shaft back in her so she's 4wd again.
@@MadMatt4WD when it was up on the hoist yesterday the springs pretty much came out. Because they are 2 inch coils and the 3 inch shocks allow more droop. I was buying some superior engineering retainers but they are $140 for 4 plus post. Not a problem but when checking out it said it can be up to 20 days or something before they get dispatched. Ended up buying some that look near the same off ebay for $90 for the 4 including post.
10/10 for this vid!!! Well shot and very well explained. Geez bloody bushes i had no idea that bonded rubber articulates just by twisting /flexing, (yep should have) poly is a great idea and i like it in some applications. Once again great vid
Hay Matt. Your reasoning is sound however in the solid axle front end application you have when you lift those vehicles the angle of the diff pinion changes and needs to be moved back to standard other wise you can have binding on the tailshafts from the transfer case. They usually recommend to fit an off set bush to correct this but if memory serves me I’m pretty sure they are made out of polyurethane and is a solid bush. But do correct me if I’m wrong.
For your off-road enduro activity best is OEM + using silicone paste on the exposed rubber on the OEM bushing , various Duro for your preference . The silicone paste have various duration for curing period , while you could improvise the OEM bushing with this method or cutting/digging away most of the rubber part and fill the space with silicone paste of your preferred duro hardness :)
do the sleeves go all the way to the receiving backet so the dont move???they should. looks like your bolt hole is worn out..like 1mm of play there lol...put in wider aftermarket arms , and tighten those holes up
The only polyurethane bush I have on my car is in the shocks which comes with it BUT as for the other components of 4wd i use rubber as it lasts longer
Rubber does not live long in tension. Mold bonded bushes typically need to be swaged. Inner metal can be expanded or outer can be compressed to put the rubber into compression. Bushes are manufactured may ways. Post bonding is sometimes used. There is even an old process called Silent Bloc that uses a free molded rubber that is "shot" into inner and outer metals.
Nothing better than a bald man showing us his bush..es 🤣 well done Matt. I learnt a lot. When I was younger I used to always use poly because I didn’t have a press. However I did notice that with my p-plate mud goggles on they did wear considerably quicker. Wish I’d seen this video back then 👍
Thanks for the video. Do you have any tests or examples of amount of flex from a c cup radius arm with both bush types? I know you gave your opinion, but it would be good to see an actual test and prove if it really is so. Something else to be mindful of with rubber bushes, as you said, they are bonded. This means there is a limit in how far the insert can rotate before tearing the bush and wearing it prematurely, maybe a bit like the ones fitted to that control arm. If you require a large rotational movement, you might be exceeding the capabilities of a rubber bush, the free rotation of the poly unit might be desirable. Also worth noting that not all rubber bushes are equal. Even OEM labelled bushes are often nowhere near as good as originally fitted by the manufacturer. We see this in the Land Rover world quite a lot. The factory rubber bushes last well. But the replacements you buy last only a fraction of the time. Nice that you mentioned the holes in the rubber bush, although I'd say that is probably on the rarer side and maybe model specific. There are also voided (holes) poly bushes available for some vehicles and applications too.
I’ve not done the testing. But when you see the bushes fitted you can see how they can be a limiting factor. If a vehicle is close to its original design I can’t see the rubber bush being over stretched but I can see it being a problem in a modified setup.
I wouldn’t use them on a race car as they transfer a lot more vibration being a more solid design. I use a different brand in my racecar which is where they work well.
Hi Matt , good informative info . Many people have no idea what's going on . I have 2 80 series 1990 stock & 1991 80mm lift .The 80 mm lift truck has Nylon caster correction & no adjustable pan-hard rods, plus converted to part time 4wd .It handles like a pig compared to stock truck. It handles terrible on motorway . The stock truck is much nicer to drive with better stability .I will dump the 80mm lift .New radius rods sound the best for caster correction . I plan to redo the 80mm lift to a lessor amount and the advice you have given in your threads will be taken into account . Both trucks are factory triple lockers with the factory winch's , we have a good number of these factory triple locker's in NZ .Your discussions on suspension mods are a great help . The full time / part time conversions are an interesting topic in regards to handling , shingle roads and slippery surfaces ice and snow may be better with full time .Interesting topic wonder what others think on this subject .
Hello and mahalo for great info. I have a classic 1987 VW Scirocco 16V. I'm vacillating on whether or not I want to stiffen the control arms and by how much. One thing is that I'm now 60 years old and not into jarring my body in the car like I was in my youth. I've been turning the Scirocco into a bit of a GT car. The aftermarket Neuspeed front and rear sway bars along with K-bar and torsion bars do a great job of keep the body stiffer and not rolling in the curves so she drives on rails! With this set up, I am thinking about leaving the rubber bushings in the control arms. I'm not sure if it's worth changing out both front and rear or having both rubber and poly thinking that poly would go on the front part of the control arm? I'm thinking that these days, I've achieved eliminating body roll and there may be no point in stiffening the ride further with poly bushings.... just keep the rubber bushings in for that little bit of vibration dampening and let the sway/torsion bars and springs do the rest of the work. That car also already has a good feel coming through the steering wheel. The suspension also currently has Ground Control progressive springs so the stance is good and the spring rate seems good. I am not the original owner so I'm still figuring out what was done. I believe the front struts are worn as it can bottom out at times. Other than that, it feels ok. I do have an old Ground Control coil over set up in my shop that was in a previous Scirocco. The springs are too stiff and setup for track/hill climbing rallies. The front have Koni adjustables which need a rebuild and rear are Bilstein gas. I'm not sure if the front bottoms out or because the springs are so stiff that it sounds and feels like it's bottoming out. Once I do the math to figure out the proper length of coil over spring, I'll replace with a much lighter spring rate that is slightly over what OEM was. Oh, the curb weight is about 2100lbs. If anything, I'll use the poly on the rear sway bar mount. This info should give you an overview of what I have and wanting to achieve. I appreciate your time and thoughts. I have a feeling you may be verifying my thoughts but it's nice to have your professional opinion. Mahalo! footnote. I do have all poly on the front end of my 96' Ford Explorer and that really helps with the sway of that car and a better positive feel and ride. LOL.
Hey. Firstly I’m very much 4wd which means we look for different things to a race car or track environment. So all I can offer is that rubber will be a tad softer but this is also dependant on the duro or hardness of the poly bush. So you may be able to get the control you want as well as the ride by finding poly bushes with different duro and trying them to see if that helps.
@@MadMatt4WD Mahalo for getting back to me. I hear ya. I'm more about fair weather driving my Scirocco and pampering her these days. In the past, I've used both Energy Suspension and Prothane. I've been thinking about trying Powerflex as I hear they're a tad softer than the other two brands. But as I mentioned with the setup that I currently have with the sway/torsion bars, springs and struts, perhaps that's enough and simply keep the front bushings rubber. The rear I'll stiffen a bit more with poly as it's also very easy to change out bushings with no damage.
@@MadMatt4WDdo you consider polyurethane bushes and greasable shackle pins a better setup or rubber bushes with conventional shackle pins better in leaf sprung 4x4s
@@MadMatt4WD Funnily enough, they were initially invented for Land Rovers in African Mines. But as people found that they could be used in harder compounds, their popularity grew in racing / performance applications
Hi, my bushings burst quite frequently because the roads are pretty bad where I live. Would poly bushings last longer if I used them instead of rubber?...I am referring to the bushings for the lower control arm (both front and rear bushings). I drive a Honda Fit Aria 2009 (4wd).
my personal experience using both polyurethane is not good for bad beat up road or streets...polyurethane good for perfect road conditions and rubber original or replacement rubber bushing are the best for all kind of hard road drive,all depends on the daily road you are
NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE!. So my 80 had 500,000k's and has done a lot of bush miles. The other day on the Stuart highway the front track bar sheared off completely where it was bolted to the diff housing, I lost control at 100k's an hour. This was because the bush was poly and had seized passing on all the stress to the bar which eventually let go. Bloody scary. If you're going off road use rubber.
I have an 01 Outback, does it matter what carb spray cleaner that I use before changing spark plugs? Also, I thought a clunk was a trans mount, it wasn't, before engine mount replacement? Your thought on polyurethane to help to troubleshoot?
Nice to know the balance+-. What would you recommend for leave springs and will high density silicon work in a emergency out in the bush? Looking forward to the next video. Thank you! Best(SA)
Great video and quite timely since I’m doing my bushings on my 80. Rear Bush this go-around. Do you have any recommendations on going OEM ($$$) versus aftermarket rubber bushings ($$). Which aftermarket rubber bushings would you go if you were buying?
I'm assuming you US based so I think @witsend sell OEM bushings. I have a number of suppliers that supply OEM at a good price so thats what I've always stuck too with good results.
@@rockstate45 if you can afford to go with OEM. You can get the ones in the video from Terrain Tamer EStore and I think they have a US presence. They are actually OEM
MadMatt 4WD I’ll check them out! I put OEM bushings in the radius arms with the OME castor correction about 40k and 5 years ago and they’re holding up surprisingly well. Just eager to be back in the trails. Love your stuff. What are the chances of connecting with the 4wd Action guys or Litebrite? Those would be epic videos.
Poly is better for anti roll bar bushes. Delrin for steering rack bushes. Rubber for almost everything else. Wish upgraded rubber was more common like poly is.
If I put polyurethane bushes in my Honda civic will I need to grease them up often? I want to go polyurethane in hopes that they last longer. But if maintenance is a factor then it defeats the purpose I think
I’m passionate about helping the 4wd community and I'm developing an online course so i can help as many people as I can to get out there and wheel well on their 4wd adventures. To register your interest and for free and exclusive training videos visit madmatt4wd.com.au/register
Matt,
I'm new to your channel. This video is spot on, and I have found all of your content to be insightful, realistic, and informative. I am an American engineer, manufacturer, and life long 4WD enthusiast. I know BS when I see it, and I see a LOT of it! Your channel is excellent, and I recommend it to my friends.
If I may expand just a bit on some of your points here. Yes, poly and rubber both have a place. They work entirely differently, as you mentioned. Bonded rubber does have the limitation that it can only flex so far without tearing or simply holding it's position. A good example is in a leaf spring bushing. Vehicles designed for very high articulation can benefit from poly because the poly actually rotates in it's mount, where the rubber does not. You are also correct that the poly joint must be designed properly for poly, and the correct durometer material must be used. This type of engineering is sadly not done by many aftermarket providers. It is frankly shocking. I have even reached out to some of these companies and offered to help them, and they don't even reply. Most non-race applications require lower durometer poly, but many aftermarket suppliers offer race spec poly. That is a huge mistake. Also many problems arise from replacing rubber with poly in a joint that was designed for rubber. Again, the joint must be deigned for the material being used. Poly rubbing steel is a recipe fr creating a squeak monster. One last point. When poly rubs against steel with some abrasive in between like dirt, the steel will actually wear much faster than the poly! There is a lot more to unpack about this subject.
Kudos to you for bringing some light to this subject, because the average off roader really has no clue how any of this works.
Thanks for the encouragement. And yes many people get caught with this.
wow...first to comment. I bought PU bushes for a simple reason: they are easy to install, no press needed. Easy to install means easy to replace even if they fail earlier.
And that’s certainly an advantage
so true nilz, i think the same
So they moves inside so no need to lower your car first then torque it right?
I just swapped out all the rubber on rear leafs and shackles on my 88 4runner ...im a fan. Theyre now in my upper and lower arms in the front and as i mentioned the rear. Theure stiffer but you do get a distinct sense of how the suspension is working . Its easier to "feel" whats happening . Great channel brother .
Fantastic. Glad to help
Good opinion. I use rubber on all suspension components, and polyurethane on engine transmission and transfer case mounts. The Poly definitely lasts longer with oil leaking down on it. Delrin is Superior
Nice work Matt. I always used poly in the rally cars front ends to keep them stiff, but in the 4WD I go for rubber myself because I have seen some vehicles, not Datsuns or Yotas, that have cracked components because the poly doesn't flex as much as you say. Have a good one mate
Right on
I really like poly for the body mounts. The are under compression. Improved my ride over the worn rubber and has a better connected feel to the road and trail.
I hadn’t thought of that application. Good one.
Dear Matt thankyou for the best explaination of this I have ever seen. I replaced my suspension on my 40th anniversary with a full Pedders upgrade. Standard height hd Springs shocks nolethane bushes. It transformed the cruiser. But I was only using this vehicle for extremely heavy duty towing. A Noelex 30! It performed really well because it elimated any sideways movement. So much more stable. However I also have other vehicles and its abundantly clear that for their use that rubber is definitely the way to go! Many thanks
I’m glad I could help.
Hi Matt. Great video. And great topic. I will offer a comment here based on my own 4wd touring experience and specifically with regard to leaf spring bushes. I have a hzj75 troopcarrier and as you probably know the 75 series is a fully leaf sprung vehicle front and rear. I have done extensive outback travelling and my personal opinion is that polyurethane bushes are totally unsuitable for this type of application. I was replacing bushes as frequently as 10 - 15000km The poly bushes would disintegrate and the leaf spring pins would eat through them and start pounding into the spring eye. After much soul searching and contemplation I went to toyota and back to the original rubber bush specification for their leaf springs and now, 75000km later, they are still perfect and they ride better than the poly bushes ever did. So for me there's no doubt that a (quality) rubber bush is the best way to go for leaf springs on a heavily loaded outback tourer. I think greasable poly bushes in heavily loaded leaf springs vehicles are a waste of time and that is from many thousands of kilometers of outback experience. Of course the situation could be different in other applications (i.e. shocks or stabilizers or radius arms) but i doubt it really.
Toyota usually knows best...........
Now thats some really good info. Thanks for sharing.
I have no opinion, I'm not a trail rider, my 4x4 F150 helps me stay out of snow banks and helps in deep snow. I just wanted to give you a comment. I do enjoy your trail outings videos.
Well Bill I truly appreciate you taking the time to support us. It means a lot.
Thanks Matt. I don't own a 4x4 but I want to fix my gearbox mount on my Ford SUV using DIY polyurethane mount. So I am studying everything I can about poly. Thank you very educational tonnes of love my brother from South Africa.
Very glad I could help you out.
Super helpful and well informed perspective. Thank you!!
I find a lot people try to switch to poly just because it's aftermarket and a 'mod' so must be better... but alas. I think installing quality OE bushings is best most of the time, except for vertical-press applications such as shocks as you say.
I think a big point to note is to stay away from cheap Chinese aftermarket rubber bushings - the durometer on the rubber is all wrong and they disintegrate. But quality Toyota, Nissan, or whatever your OE bushings are and safe yourself a headache down the line.
Well said.
Best lube I found was Lucas red an tacky grease. The energy suspension grease ends up squeaky.
Thanks
Well Stated . Clearly said and Zero Bullshit . My take on your explanation there says , Live Axles go for Rubber , whereas , Independent suspension , like a Hummer or the Front End of your average SUV , would probably go better with Poly .
When and if these Poly Bushings wear out, I'm replacing them with Rubber. The Poly turn my rig into a one man band with all the squeeking and racket they make. I can't put ENOUGH grease in those things.
Greetings from California...
Greetings squeaky :)
My whiteline poly bushing is designed with the metal body and the rubber inside and no squeak
nice video i go for rubber in the front off my leaf spring
A place and application for each Matt just as your video described .
You got pictures of the bj? Thanks for the comment
Yeah heaps Matt , I’ll send some through .
Sent via messenger , wasn’t sure how else to do it lol 😂
Wish I would have seen this video before ordering a poly set. Oh well, super informative, thank you sir!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for that detailed explanation. This will help with my decision-making.
Glad it was helpful!
from my experience , you are correct. On the old Mitsubishi challenger I only found Pu bushes any good for the front anti roll bar - even then they squeak after a while.
I tried Pu for the trailing arms on the rear - too stiff & as you said , less flex . Tried them for front wishbones - grit got in within 2 months & wore the wishbone bores , had to replace wishbones & use rubber bushes - lesson learnt.
Thanks for the comment mate
excellent video. glad to know rubber is better than poly.
Glad to help
Thanks for this video! MadMatt good points between the 2 now I just have to decide
Glad to help!
Spotted the washer mod on the front diff there 😊
Yes it’s my go to
Great explanation Matt, I'm doing up an 80 series myself and am loving your tips.
Glad to help. #gottaluvan80
Hi Matt.
We invented Polyurethane bushes (hence our name) and you're mostly very right in what you're saying here!
A lot of brands manufacture their bushes for grease, in fact, we believe we're the only brand that does NOT want grease anywhere near our bushes - As you've rightly said, grease and dirt don't go well together. Grinding paste aside, If the tube moves in the bush or the bush moves in the arm, it's not a bush, it's a bearing and on a 4WD suspension system in most cases it's not what you want.
The hard thing is understanding what hardness your bushes are, what hardness the polyurethane bushes are then noting the differences, let's say you've got an old Land Rover (we're from the UK hence the comparison) the original hardness of the O.E.M bushes were 65 Shore A (Durometer) and in most cases, manufacturers are selling their bushes at 85a or even 95a!
This is a HUGE increase in stiffness, this will, as you say, reduce flex, so if your goal is flex and the ability for the suspension to track uneven ground, you want to go down the Duro range, if you want reduced deflection and a point and shoot drive like on a track car, you want to go up!
(This isn't a sales pitch, but for information only)
We offer our Landy bushes in 3 grades, 65a (Comfort) 75a (Dynamic) and 85a (Performance) so you can really pick what you want.
Some of our customers have even had their bushes on their trucks for 30+ years! So it really IS just about specifying the right hardness - We have a video explaining this if anyone is interested.
Reading the comments there is some saying that Polyurethane bushes can crack or disintegrate.
This can be the case as not all Polyurethane is the same, anyone can 3d print a mould and make some in a garage or a shed, but to correctly manufacture safety critical parts a lot more time, effort and skill are involved. For example, it takes around 24 hours to manufacture 1 bush in our British Factory.
I hope that helps your audience pick the right parts, be that from us or from another manufacturer in their region or for their vehicle.
Thanks so much for a very helpful and mature comment. Since filming this I’ve learned more on these bushes through using them on my racecar in the rear lower control arms. These arms move through an ark mostly and the bushes survived very very well considering the abuse I gave them.
You’ve got a great website! I’ve had good experiences with polyurethane bushings in the past, but when I did that truck I did not find the choices in hardness that you offer. I’m very glad that you have components for Subaru Foresters. New customer here!
Very interesting and informative! Thank you.
Excellent video, so glad I watched this and it answered my question.
Glad to help
Great video! Also love the Cruisers in the background!!
I learned this the hard way, on my first fourby (a 93 4runner) I fell for the marketing hype and fitted Nolathane bushes front to back, it made a significant increase in road noise and harsh ride, as well as robbing me of a fair amount of my already limited rear flex.
When I got my next fourby (90 series prado) I experimented with different brands and their effects, I found Superpro had the closest equivalent to rubber, which suited most of my use. I ended up with Superpro on my rear shocks, my upper rear control arms, lower front control arms and my panhard rod (the rod was a challenge as it was a prototype, not many people modifying prados back then). I left the rubber bushes in my rear lower control arms because they twisted more than the top ones.
My front upper control arms just used the bushes that came with it because aftermarket UCAs weren't available in Australia at the time (so whatever Total Chaos uses is what I had), and my front shocks used heim joints. So it took a lot of mixing and matching, but I got the best compromise of flex and comfort for my use.
That said, on my current Hilux, I've just been lazy and left factory rubber in everything :)
Thats some great feedback. Thanks
@@MadMatt4WD i got Peddlers urethane and theextra harshness and rattles of door and fitting has greatly increased. Buyers remore .? .yes
I have use the this bushing in my Mazda 3 and still going for 9years now with no issue
That would be correct. They work fine in cars
Thanks MM. I need front and rear bush kits. You made it clear and concise. Regards and happy new year.
Your video is amazing, i think the selection of which pushing to use depends on the roads someone is driving onto and depends on the car someone is using
Definatly
Rubber, Bush the talk every bloke needs to hear. 😊
Well informed Matt
I replaced the suspension in our 80 a year ago. Used both. Interesting to see what it looks like now
Keep up the good 👍
I've just recently replaced my panhard rod bushes on my gu from poly to OEM rubber. What a difference in ride quality. Soaks up so much more of the hardness. Made it a more pleasurable drive.
Thanks heaps mate
Your series of videos are an excellent resource! Thank you for taking the time to create this!
Cheers
found this channel and is a gem. In my experience, sand likes to eat poly's.
Welcome. That makes sense.
I think these are all good facts to consider and are helpful to understand how and why things work. For me poly wins due to the fact it takes like 90 seconds to change out poly, OEM rubber is usually super expensive and aftermarket rubber is all over the map for quality and durometer (at least in the states).
Yes Rubber is a bigger job less often in my experience. But I agree with you.
@@MadMatt4WD how come rubber is changed less often? I would have thought the poly bushes would last a lot longer being harder and more resistant to oils/solvents ect?
@@yallawallahalla in my experience they do because they only flex not rub like poly. Since this video I’ve found some poly bushes that do fairly well
@@MadMatt4WDare you able to say which poly ones flex?
Excellent educational video!
good video, i have superpro but going back to stock rubber
It'll be interesting to see how that goes for you.
Our heavy 4x4 Fords (02 Excursion and 79 Bronco) have polyurethane all around. Would never go back to rubber as it tends to fail from severe use. Polyurethane holds up and yields a great ride quality. I can see a light vehicle such as a Toyota would have a punishing ride with polyurethane.
Interesting. Obviously the duro of the poly can affect the performance.
You pointed out something that I wasn't thinking about. I have a leaf sprung samurai and it destroys factory rubber style bushings, and my only option is poly bushings, but I don't want the suspension to be stiffer. So I'm going to go ahead and go poly and see how they work on my samurai. but yeah I wasn't thinking about it making the suspension stiffer. Either way thanks for the video.
Glad to help mate. There's defiantly exceptions to every rule.
@@MadMatt4WD yeah I don't think it will affect my samurai as much as it does your vehicle. the bushings that I ordered , I believe have like a splined look on the inside and I think its so they flex a little. but we will see what it does.
Put put new rubber bushes on GQ Panhard just over 12 months ago and one flogged out already, I going try poly
Hmm. That’s not normal. Be interesting to see how they go.
On my old disco the rubber ones lasts way longer as I was going off roading every second week. I would just destroy the neoprene ones in no time and then it would just wander on the freeway a couple of inches side to side at speed. Also have a Ranger with lots of mods , both twin locked.
Spoke to terrain tamer about the difference as I'm about to do my 80 and the pro poly has a lifetime warranty
Thanks Matt, really valuable information and good on Terrain Tamer. I have a Discovery and stick with factory rubber bushes hearing repeated comments of poly bushes flogging out quickly my scenario. That is, high flex high country work and I now understand why. ☺️
Really glad to help
The more i know the more i know that i dont know.😅
I do know however, My 4wd spends more time at woolworths then in the mud and also i fall for hype/marketing. But i am leaning towards gradually swapping bushing with superpro and see if things like handling are noteable. Im guessing If there is anything noteworth it would be because the old bushes are 20 years old.
Thanks for your content matt 👍
Thanks God. I am not blaspheming. Thanks God, my world never became this small as this dude's.
What are you on about
Theoretically, lowering the friction in the suspension linkage, which acts as damping, should allow the shocks to work better because the damping curve will be more linear. But a lot of these vehicles are designed for the bushing to flex, so you don't want a PU bushing there. In my bike I have cartridge bearings and there's almost zero friction.
Great video, very informative 👍🏽
Really great video. I just installed poly bushes (IPD and some Superpro) throughout my Volvo 240 RWD wagon. I torqued everything to the Bentley guide specs, which are based on OEM Volvo rubber bushes. I’m now wondering polys need to be torqued a little less than rubber because of the different the mating surface on poly vs rubber?
I’m going to retorque everything tomorrow and thought I’d ask.
I couldn’t say for certain. Probably check the bush company’s recommendation. Otherwise go to factory specs
For bushings Polyurethane is higher maintenance needs greasing or else it will squeak.
For spring seats and isolator that has no twisting motion Polyurethane are best they don't disintegrate over time and they don't compress
Polyurethane Bushes vs Rubber Bushes - Let me know your thoughts in the comments!
.
🤫📈😭
Thx. For a sedan car 🤔i wonder which type is better ?
Hello , which bushing model do you suggest for a toyota yaris 2010 sedan model ? For a moment i was thinking about opting for the polyurethane every where. Now after the video i am reconsidering. I still have the factory stock ones.🤔
@@whenrosesfadeaway If the factory ones have done a great job for you why change to something else?
Great video. Fair and balanced.
Thanks
I used a name brand Urethane swaybar bushes and they did not last and were noisy. Went back to OEM rubber.
I prefer to use rubber bushings for my toyota landcruiser 100 series from toyota company, because they last very long and you get a softer ride, however, in areas where the suspension dont flex as much, using poly is no problem.
Great comment
I have used poly superpro in certain areas of my patrol. Both panhards at the diff end only And radius arms chasis end only. Rest is all pedders and or genine nissan rubber. Mud has stuffed all my rubber bushes. Replaced twice now.
How did Mud stuff your rubber bushes? FYI mud stuffs everything and is best avoided where possible.
@@MadMatt4WD basicly full sending it in bog holes causes max flex in bush, hot and cold they deteriorated cracked. Then again my mates pedders poly bushes cracked also under same circumstances, uses a mix of both like i do now.
Very helpful thank you. I can’t help but notice that beautiful Toyota in back for you what year is that because I would like to put those lights in my third generation if possible thanks again
That’s a 97 80 series landcruiser.
@@MadMatt4WD she is beautiful👍🏾
@@MadMatt4WD very hard to find here in the states especially in the midwesr
@@busterevergreen9673 there’s video about it on the channel. Search 80 series or covid 80
Hi Matt, that is a good explanation.
Hey, thanks!
I recently added nolathane castor correction bushes to my Gu patrol.
They are a press in bush and also have a large area taken out underneath the bolt tube for flex.
They flex better than my rubber ones and also brakes 100% better
I did fit them myself as I am a mechanic and have a press at work.
Wouldn't go back to rubber for castor bushes now but would definitely run rubber for the back of the leading arms to the chassis!
Interesting. Why do you think it breaks better?
@@MadMatt4WD only thing changed was castor correction bushes.
When I applied the brakes prior it felt sloppy and wondering over the road I just lived with it as it's a patrol on 33s.
After fitting the bushes that has completely gone I was unaware that it would affect the braking aspects this much!
Ok so as expected it's given you steering control under breaks. You don't actually have better breaks just more control. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the bushes in a years time.
Superpro make the best poly bushes imo as they machine them after molding to remove any excess material. They're Australian too, based in QLD.
I have run some in the Bundera. I can’t comment as yet how good or bad they are.
@@MadMatt4WD I don't do any off roading and drive a fiat so I can only talk from road use 😆. From the research I have done Powerflex bushes can cause issues as they tend to bind from excessive material and this is generally what people complain about with poly bushes. It would be interesting to see your thoughts on them after some use, hopefully they aren't too firm for your application.
Ah. Yeah totally different worlds then.
It is a mix match, as you stated - I have found not all Polyurethane is as hard as the one you showed. Some are soft that gives a the ride close to rubber- I have used Powerflex in Vanagons, which I mostly drive on logging roads, and the ride is nice, and they last. The really hard Poly will make the ride stiffer - I do not like that, regardless of longevity. One question how long will you be keeping the car. Poly cost a lot more than rubber.
Nice one u madman
Appreciated
I literally fitted up my lower radius arm bushes on my 80 yesterday. 2 degree rubber bushes for the front and poly bushes on the back of the radius arm for a bit more flex.
How did that go? Did you add longer shocks or did you know travel was limited by the old bushes.
@@MadMatt4WD I bought the car with standard sagged suspension. I chucked in some lovells 2 inch springs but it threw out the castor and the front tail shift angle wasn't the best. So the 2 degree bushes are solid rubber and at the back of the arm are the poly bushes. I have fitted up some efs 3 inch shocks for more travel. Extended brake lines and springs retainers getting fitted this week. And chuck the front shaft back in her so she's 4wd again.
I'm probably limited by my sway bars now but 1 step at a time.
Yeah ok. With that lift you'll be just on the limit of having to do big mods. I tend to sit around this level lift. you sure you need retainers?
@@MadMatt4WD when it was up on the hoist yesterday the springs pretty much came out. Because they are 2 inch coils and the 3 inch shocks allow more droop. I was buying some superior engineering retainers but they are $140 for 4 plus post. Not a problem but when checking out it said it can be up to 20 days or something before they get dispatched. Ended up buying some that look near the same off ebay for $90 for the 4 including post.
10/10 for this vid!!! Well shot and very well explained. Geez bloody bushes i had no idea that bonded rubber articulates just by twisting /flexing, (yep should have) poly is a great idea and i like it in some applications. Once again great vid
Thanks for the very generous words.
Poly bushes in the radius arms especially castor corrected ones will break your axle mounts.
Yes I’ve had that happen
Hay Matt. Your reasoning is sound however in the solid axle front end application you have when you lift those vehicles the angle of the diff pinion changes and needs to be moved back to standard other wise you can have binding on the tailshafts from the transfer case. They usually recommend to fit an off set bush to correct this but if memory serves me I’m pretty sure they are made out of polyurethane and is a solid bush. But do correct me if I’m wrong.
No you’re absolutely correct. It’s called castor correction. I’m talking about that next week.
Interesting topic
My old 1978 Range Rover is on OME polybushes and Koni shocks with police spec coils, brilliant. Ten times better then the original Land Rover bushes.
Nice one
thanks, great video!
Thanks kindly
Great advice
🤟
I bought rubber exhaust hangers one year later they have cracks in them.
I think thats a different thing but theres quality rubber and cheap rubber.
Thanks Mad Matt. What about poly D bushes for the sway bar?
I think they would work well there.
For your off-road enduro activity best is OEM + using silicone paste on the exposed rubber on the OEM bushing , various Duro for your preference .
The silicone paste have various duration for curing period , while you could improvise the OEM bushing with this method or cutting/digging away most of the rubber part and fill the space with silicone paste of your preferred duro hardness :)
that's an interesting idea
do the sleeves go all the way to the receiving backet so the dont move???they should. looks like your bolt hole is worn out..like 1mm of play there lol...put in wider aftermarket arms , and tighten those holes up
I think the video is probably not doing justice at that level of detail. Everything went together fine and has been fine for some years now.
The only polyurethane bush I have on my car is in the shocks which comes with it BUT as for the other components of 4wd i use rubber as it lasts longer
I have never had an issue with shocks running them. I think Poly is perfect for shocks.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Are you talking about the regular poly or are we talking about 3M Window Weld?
Just polyurethane as a bush.
@@MadMatt4WD Cool. Maybe for next video you can compare 3M Window Weld to Rubber...
Thanks sir
Welcome
Rubber does not live long in tension. Mold bonded bushes typically need to be swaged. Inner metal can be expanded or outer can be compressed to put the rubber into compression. Bushes are manufactured may ways. Post bonding is sometimes used. There is even an old process called Silent Bloc that uses a free molded rubber that is "shot" into inner and outer metals.
Wow. Cool
Nothing better than a bald man showing us his bush..es 🤣 well done Matt. I learnt a lot. When I was younger I used to always use poly because I didn’t have a press. However I did notice that with my p-plate mud goggles on they did wear considerably quicker. Wish I’d seen this video back then 👍
I'll teach you how to paint one day. HA HA HA. Glad to help mate.
Thanks for the video. Do you have any tests or examples of amount of flex from a c cup radius arm with both bush types? I know you gave your opinion, but it would be good to see an actual test and prove if it really is so. Something else to be mindful of with rubber bushes, as you said, they are bonded. This means there is a limit in how far the insert can rotate before tearing the bush and wearing it prematurely, maybe a bit like the ones fitted to that control arm. If you require a large rotational movement, you might be exceeding the capabilities of a rubber bush, the free rotation of the poly unit might be desirable.
Also worth noting that not all rubber bushes are equal. Even OEM labelled bushes are often nowhere near as good as originally fitted by the manufacturer. We see this in the Land Rover world quite a lot. The factory rubber bushes last well. But the replacements you buy last only a fraction of the time.
Nice that you mentioned the holes in the rubber bush, although I'd say that is probably on the rarer side and maybe model specific. There are also voided (holes) poly bushes available for some vehicles and applications too.
I’ve not done the testing. But when you see the bushes fitted you can see how they can be a limiting factor. If a vehicle is close to its original design I can’t see the rubber bush being over stretched but I can see it being a problem in a modified setup.
Leaf springs on a 40… mostly driven on road, some easy trails. Does rubber make that much of a difference? Looking at bushings for new springs
Try the poly out but if it was mine I’d stay rubber.
Got an opinion on Johnny joints, which are supposed to combine the best features of the poly and rubber?
I wouldn’t use them on a race car as they transfer a lot more vibration being a more solid design. I use a different brand in my racecar which is where they work well.
Hi Matt , good informative info . Many people have no idea what's going on . I have 2 80 series 1990 stock & 1991 80mm lift .The 80 mm lift truck has Nylon caster correction & no adjustable pan-hard rods, plus converted to part time 4wd .It handles like a pig compared to stock truck. It handles terrible on motorway . The stock truck is much nicer to drive with better stability .I will dump the 80mm lift .New radius rods sound the best for caster correction . I plan to redo the 80mm lift to a lessor amount and the advice you have given in your threads will be taken into account . Both trucks are factory triple lockers with the factory winch's , we have a good number of these factory triple locker's in NZ .Your discussions on suspension mods are a great help . The full time / part time conversions are an interesting topic in regards to handling , shingle roads and slippery surfaces ice and snow may be better with full time .Interesting topic wonder what others think on this subject .
Glad to help
Hello and mahalo for great info. I have a classic 1987 VW Scirocco 16V. I'm vacillating on whether or not I want to stiffen the control arms and by how much. One thing is that I'm now 60 years old and not into jarring my body in the car like I was in my youth. I've been turning the Scirocco into a bit of a GT car. The aftermarket Neuspeed front and rear sway bars along with K-bar and torsion bars do a great job of keep the body stiffer and not rolling in the curves so she drives on rails! With this set up, I am thinking about leaving the rubber bushings in the control arms. I'm not sure if it's worth changing out both front and rear or having both rubber and poly thinking that poly would go on the front part of the control arm? I'm thinking that these days, I've achieved eliminating body roll and there may be no point in stiffening the ride further with poly bushings.... just keep the rubber bushings in for that little bit of vibration dampening and let the sway/torsion bars and springs do the rest of the work. That car also already has a good feel coming through the steering wheel.
The suspension also currently has Ground Control progressive springs so the stance is good and the spring rate seems good. I am not the original owner so I'm still figuring out what was done. I believe the front struts are worn as it can bottom out at times. Other than that, it feels ok. I do have an old Ground Control coil over set up in my shop that was in a previous Scirocco. The springs are too stiff and setup for track/hill climbing rallies. The front have Koni adjustables which need a rebuild and rear are Bilstein gas. I'm not sure if the front bottoms out or because the springs are so stiff that it sounds and feels like it's bottoming out. Once I do the math to figure out the proper length of coil over spring, I'll replace with a much lighter spring rate that is slightly over what OEM was. Oh, the curb weight is about 2100lbs.
If anything, I'll use the poly on the rear sway bar mount.
This info should give you an overview of what I have and wanting to achieve. I appreciate your time and thoughts. I have a feeling you may be verifying my thoughts but it's nice to have your professional opinion. Mahalo!
footnote. I do have all poly on the front end of my 96' Ford Explorer and that really helps with the sway of that car and a better positive feel and ride. LOL.
Hey. Firstly I’m very much 4wd which means we look for different things to a race car or track environment. So all I can offer is that rubber will be a tad softer but this is also dependant on the duro or hardness of the poly bush. So you may be able to get the control you want as well as the ride by finding poly bushes with different duro and trying them to see if that helps.
@@MadMatt4WD Mahalo for getting back to me. I hear ya. I'm more about fair weather driving my Scirocco and pampering her these days. In the past, I've used both Energy Suspension and Prothane. I've been thinking about trying Powerflex as I hear they're a tad softer than the other two brands. But as I mentioned with the setup that I currently have with the sway/torsion bars, springs and struts, perhaps that's enough and simply keep the front bushings rubber. The rear I'll stiffen a bit more with poly as it's also very easy to change out bushings with no damage.
I think poly bushings may have made more of a difference in older Leaf Spring vehicles.
I think it was developed for rally and race.
@@MadMatt4WDdo you consider polyurethane bushes and greasable shackle pins a better setup or rubber bushes with conventional shackle pins better in leaf sprung 4x4s
@@MadMatt4WD Funnily enough, they were initially invented for Land Rovers in African Mines.
But as people found that they could be used in harder compounds, their popularity grew in racing / performance applications
What companies do you recommened for body mounts?
I want something thatll last but not feel so stiff
Factory is the best in my opinion.
Hi, my bushings burst quite frequently because the roads are pretty bad where I live. Would poly bushings last longer if I used them instead of rubber?...I am referring to the bushings for the lower control arm (both front and rear bushings). I drive a Honda Fit Aria 2009 (4wd).
You would have to try them and see.
Thxs Matt, quite informative! Can you tell me what brand of offset radius arm bushings would you recommend?
None as I don’t think they’re a good solution.
my personal experience using both polyurethane is not good for bad beat up road or streets...polyurethane good for perfect road conditions and rubber original or replacement rubber bushing are the best for all kind of hard road drive,all depends on the daily road you are
That’s been my experience as well.
I'm planning to polyurethane my Nissan teana 2009 control arm bushing does it make sense?
Give it a go and see what experience you have with them.
Can you grease up the rubber/ polurethane bushes?
Rubber won’t need it because it’s bonded. Poly will need grease.
NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE!. So my 80 had 500,000k's and has done a lot of bush miles. The other day on the Stuart highway the front track bar sheared off completely where it was bolted to the diff housing, I lost control at 100k's an hour. This was because the bush was poly and had seized passing on all the stress to the bar which eventually let go. Bloody scary. If you're going off road use rubber.
Wow that’s not a good thing. Glad you survived.
Thumbs up just for the accent!
Golly Matt? Did you help in lifting the classy off? Physically?
Yeah. Just used my engine crane. 🤭
I have an 01 Outback, does it matter what carb spray cleaner that I use before changing spark plugs? Also, I thought a clunk was a trans mount, it wasn't, before engine mount replacement? Your thought on polyurethane to help to troubleshoot?
I’m not sure why you use carb cleaner before you change plugs. Just change the plugs. I’d need a lot more info to answer the other question.
I’m not sure why you use carb cleaner before you change plugs. Just change the plugs. I’d need a lot more info to answer the other question.
I’m not sure why you use carb cleaner before you change plugs. Just change the plugs. I’d need a lot more info to answer the other question.
Nice to know the balance+-. What would you recommend for leave springs and will high density silicon work in a emergency out in the bush? Looking forward to the next video. Thank you! Best(SA)
Rubber for Leafs IMO. Anything works in an emergency.
@@MadMatt4WD Thank you.
extra road noise and harshness is my experience with urethane bushes..
.Significant buyers remorse
Interesting
Where can i find PU bushing for my infinity qx80 2015 hydraulic suspension model?
Hi. I’m not sure mate.
Great video and quite timely since I’m doing my bushings on my 80. Rear Bush this go-around. Do you have any recommendations on going OEM ($$$) versus aftermarket rubber bushings ($$). Which aftermarket rubber bushings would you go if you were buying?
I'm assuming you US based so I think @witsend sell OEM bushings. I have a number of suppliers that supply OEM at a good price so thats what I've always stuck too with good results.
MadMatt 4WD unfortunately! Wish we got the 80s they sent your way. Wit’s End is a great supporter here for these “old vehicles.” Decisions decisions.
@@rockstate45 if you can afford to go with OEM. You can get the ones in the video from Terrain Tamer EStore and I think they have a US presence. They are actually OEM
MadMatt 4WD I’ll check them out! I put OEM bushings in the radius arms with the OME castor correction about 40k and 5 years ago and they’re holding up surprisingly well. Just eager to be back in the trails.
Love your stuff. What are the chances of connecting with the 4wd Action guys or Litebrite? Those would be epic videos.
Thanks mate. I know Graham and Shaun but they kinda do their own thing for the most part.
Poly is better for anti roll bar bushes. Delrin for steering rack bushes. Rubber for almost everything else. Wish upgraded rubber was more common like poly is.
great comment
@@MadMatt4WD Great videos!
If I put polyurethane bushes in my Honda civic will I need to grease them up often? I want to go polyurethane in hopes that they last longer. But if maintenance is a factor then it defeats the purpose I think
You shouldn’t have to but get a quality bush.
@@MadMatt4WD yes indeed, what about energy suspension bushes?
@@guitarofdestiny I’m not familiar with that style of bush. Is it like a hydraulic bush???
Poly can get brittle and crack if flexed too much and then they just disintegrate.
Certainly some do but not all. I’ve had the terrain tamer ones last very well in certain applications.
So right
🤟