Dude! Your tip about pushing that part of the shaft up against the top out bumper so the negative airspring is the right size is gold! That explains why it took me so so many attempts of reassembling my fork to get the negative airspring to work as intended
Just did a travel change and 50 hours service with the help of this video and the other one. One of the best instructional videos I've ever followed along to. Thanks heaps for taking the time to make this brother 👍
Super detailed vid! It’s easy as lower leg service. Thanks for all the tips also like extending the air shaft before putting back on the lowers of the fork. Thank you 🙏🏻
This was a very good focused tutorial explaining not only "how", but also "why". It's a shame I ride Manitou and have no direct use for this knowledge. Still very pleasant to watch!
That happens when the air in the negative chamber doesn't bleed off through the equalization dimple at the main air piston. If you let the air out too fast (or if the negative chamber became over pressurized) the air in the negative chamber gets "stuck" and it pushes the piston into the upper leg.
I think I have one. Those are tricky to rebuild properly these days since the original seals are hard to find. There are modern replacement options, but they don't work as well as they may be the same size but they don't hold air.
Just a question. Instead of buying a new air shaft why not just add a spacer in the negative chamber like suntour or marzocchi. Surely the increased negative chamber would help a lot in small hump too
Great question! It has to do with how the positive and negative air chambers equalize. On older forks, the pressure equalization would happen in the air shaft itself, so you could add or remove spacers to change the travel. On almost all modern forks, the equalization happens at a dimple machined into the inner wall of the upper leg. Since that dimple is fixed, the air piston always has to be at the same spot to equalize properly, so the only way to change travel is to change shaft length.
One simple question. I got a new (2021 model) ZEB ultimate from my dealer today. I am wondering that there is no effect to fell if I close al valves for compression damping step by step. Normally on other forks what I own, it feels firmer as more closed the valves are. On this ZEB I feel no effect in according the adjustment of compression damping. Do you have any idea what could be wrong on this cartridge? I see you are very experienced. So I preferred to ask you. Cheers, Olaf from Germany
Hey Olaf- without seeing your fork it's hard to say what's up. The best way to really know if the compression is working properly is to pull the damper out of the fork to test; the adjustments can be subtle and are much easier to feel when the damper is out of the fork.
@@ButterSuspension Yes of course. But it's just out of the box and I don't want to open it before I decide to keep the fork. So I will wait for the answer of the dealer. I hope they have a good offer to me, because I bought a CSU with a 1.8 inch shaft on it. This oversize shaft normally is a OEM fork for FOCUS bikes. I want to converse the fork, because the bearing on my bike has these big 1.8" bearing. And on the market the fork with a 1.8" shaft is not available. And it's not clear to me that the 2021 CSU version also would fit to a 2013 ZEB. If the CSU is the same, there is the option to switch to the 2023 ZEB. But I need a good price because I need the 150 mm air shaft and have to pay for it. It’s expensive to modify the 1.5 shaft fork to a 1.8 shaft fork. So I have to have an eye to my budget.
Changing travel on a frame doesn't change the strength...but changing from a 170 travel frame to a 190 travel frame it really depends on who makes the frame.
Im getting a 2023 Giant Reign E+2 under warranty after breaking my 2020 Trance E+1 frame recently. On the Reign it comes with a Zeb Select. There is not 1 single video on TH-cam about the Zeb Select specifically only the Zeb Ultra. I dont race and dont intend to but do regularly ride downhill & Enduro trails at probably a 'fast' C graders pace or maybe B grade on a good day. I'm 6'3" tall, weigh 91kg and am fairly muscular and as I do a lot of weight training for fun & fitness. Do you think it'd be worth it to take the Selects off while they're brand new and put on Ultimates? After selling the Selects it'd only be about $600 AUD difference. Any information would be very much appreciated. Thank you good sir 🙏👍
The main difference between the entry level Zeb and the Ultimate is the damper. There are a few other small improvements that make the Ultimate "best" but the damper will provide the biggest difference. The neat thing about these forks is you can swap dampers and air springs to make them what you want. The Charger 3 damper is usually around $360US and it's a 5 minute job to swap out.
Thanks for getting back to me mate. I'm still thinking about testing out those nicer internals. I think in a few months when I get my first fork and shock service at me LBS I'll ask them to do the upgrade. My previous forks were Fox 36 performance but I was never really that happy with them, they always felt a bit harsh no matter what I played with on the clickers. For the money I think the internal upgrade to the Rockshox might be a nice little addition. Definitely not necessary for my speed/skill level but what's a few hundred $ on a $10k bike in the scheme of things haha@@ButterSuspension
I did! Two things; this video was made before Rockshox changed over to the "new" oils, and technically speaking, bath oil isn't THAT critical in terms of makeup. Using 0W-30 will not affect performance.
Restrictions on the fork or the new frame? The fork can go up to 190mm. You can contact the manufacturer of your frame to see if they have any limits on fork travel.
Technically you can make a custom air shaft to go that low, but the overall design of this air spring is for longer travel. The Pike DJ is more appropriate for that travel size. You can't change travel by moving the air piston into the chamber as the positive/negative chamber equalization has to happen at the air dimple that's machined into the upper leg. This is why different length shafts are needed to change travel, not spacers.
I have a question. What do you think is better for the rockshox airspring. Just using Sram butter or as you have done use the rockshox dynamic seal grease and then add some oil above the airspring?
I think the difference between SRAM butter and the dynamic grease is minimal; if I didn't have the green stuff it would just be SRAM butter. The oil on top just keeps things a little slicker. But any chance I can make it just a little better, might as well!
Can the air spring shaft interchange from A1 to A2? I have a 190 A2 butter cup spring, can i switch to 170 A1 shaft? Do you know if the shaft are the same from A1 to A2?
All Zebs are interchangeable in regards to air springs and dampers, as well as lowers. And even though the air springs are interchangeable, they are not the same since the newer models have buttercup.
Not without some super fancy custom machining. Rockshox limits travel based on chassis size, so they assuming if you need less than 150 you should be on a Lyrik or Pike.
Can't believe these videos are free. May your beer be cold and your dirt heroic, my friends.
Well, technically I get paid a VERY small amount from advertising. 😂 So somebody's paying!
Dude! Your tip about pushing that part of the shaft up against the top out bumper so the negative airspring is the right size is gold! That explains why it took me so so many attempts of reassembling my fork to get the negative airspring to work as intended
Happy to help! Best part of this TH-cam adventure.
Just did a travel change and 50 hours service with the help of this video and the other one. One of the best instructional videos I've ever followed along to. Thanks heaps for taking the time to make this brother 👍
Glad it helped!
Super detailed vid! It’s easy as lower leg service. Thanks for all the tips also like extending the air shaft before putting back on the lowers of the fork. Thank you 🙏🏻
You're welcome!
Brilliant video with so many tips. Well filmed too. Thanks from sweden!
This was a very good focused tutorial explaining not only "how", but also "why". It's a shame I ride Manitou and have no direct use for this knowledge. Still very pleasant to watch!
No shame in that, Manitou makes a rad fork! I had a Mezzer for a while, it was awesome.
Always enjoy your videos for the content and the explanations of why you do what you do. 👌🏻
Happy to spread the knowledge!
Very nice clean work! Congratulations😉👍
Thank you!
Greg does such a good job
Thanks Erik!
When I let the air out of my ZEB, the piston fully retracted. What would cause this? Love the vid, cheers!
That happens when the air in the negative chamber doesn't bleed off through the equalization dimple at the main air piston. If you let the air out too fast (or if the negative chamber became over pressurized) the air in the negative chamber gets "stuck" and it pushes the piston into the upper leg.
You should do a Marzocchi bomber z3 air 2001 I can’t find any rebuild video on it. Keep up the rad videos 👍
I think I have one. Those are tricky to rebuild properly these days since the original seals are hard to find. There are modern replacement options, but they don't work as well as they may be the same size but they don't hold air.
Just a question. Instead of buying a new air shaft why not just add a spacer in the negative chamber like suntour or marzocchi. Surely the increased negative chamber would help a lot in small hump too
Great question! It has to do with how the positive and negative air chambers equalize. On older forks, the pressure equalization would happen in the air shaft itself, so you could add or remove spacers to change the travel. On almost all modern forks, the equalization happens at a dimple machined into the inner wall of the upper leg. Since that dimple is fixed, the air piston always has to be at the same spot to equalize properly, so the only way to change travel is to change shaft length.
Great vid, thank you!
Why does the SRAM service manual say that the Schrader valve core must be removed before taking off the top cap?
They really want to make sure nobody gets hurt; best way to know there's no air inside is to remove the core.
does this mean we can do the reverse and go from 170 to 180? Thinking of upgrading to Charger 3 dampener while im at it.
Yes. The fork travel is only determined by what air spring you use since the legs and damper are all designed for the max travel or lower.
Any extra steps with the 2023 w/ cups? Thanks, Bill McCleary, WA
Not really, the cups are attached to the bottom of the shaft so it's basically the same procedure.
One simple question. I got a new (2021 model) ZEB ultimate from my dealer today. I am wondering that there is no effect to fell if I close al valves for compression damping step by step. Normally on other forks what I own, it feels firmer as more closed the valves are. On this ZEB I feel no effect in according the adjustment of compression damping. Do you have any idea what could be wrong on this cartridge? I see you are very experienced. So I preferred to ask you. Cheers, Olaf from Germany
Hey Olaf- without seeing your fork it's hard to say what's up. The best way to really know if the compression is working properly is to pull the damper out of the fork to test; the adjustments can be subtle and are much easier to feel when the damper is out of the fork.
@@ButterSuspension Yes of course. But it's just out of the box and I don't want to open it before I decide to keep the fork. So I will wait for the answer of the dealer. I hope they have a good offer to me, because I bought a CSU with a 1.8 inch shaft on it. This oversize shaft normally is a OEM fork for FOCUS bikes. I want to converse the fork, because the bearing on my bike has these big 1.8" bearing. And on the market the fork with a 1.8" shaft is not available. And it's not clear to me that the 2021 CSU version also would fit to a 2013 ZEB. If the CSU is the same, there is the option to switch to the 2023 ZEB. But I need a good price because I need the 150 mm air shaft and have to pay for it. It’s expensive to modify the 1.5 shaft fork to a 1.8 shaft fork. So I have to have an eye to my budget.
Great content, quite a few tips that I found useful, thanks and I hope you keep it up!
More on the way!
Man quick question, is there specific size for zeb bladder, or its the same with pike lyrik bladder replacement? TIA
Well, technically Rockshox doesn't sell bladders for these... But I believe they're all the same length. I'd have to pull two dampers out to compare.
How much of difference will a bike make in terms of riding and frame strength if we increase the travel from 170 to 190
Changing travel on a frame doesn't change the strength...but changing from a 170 travel frame to a 190 travel frame it really depends on who makes the frame.
What shock pump do you use? Thanks
I use the digital pumps; Rockshox, Fox and Cane Creek are literally all the same pump, just different branding.
Im getting a 2023 Giant Reign E+2 under warranty after breaking my 2020 Trance E+1 frame recently. On the Reign it comes with a Zeb Select. There is not 1 single video on TH-cam about the Zeb Select specifically only the Zeb Ultra. I dont race and dont intend to but do regularly ride downhill & Enduro trails at probably a 'fast' C graders pace or maybe B grade on a good day. I'm 6'3" tall, weigh 91kg and am fairly muscular and as I do a lot of weight training for fun & fitness. Do you think it'd be worth it to take the Selects off while they're brand new and put on Ultimates? After selling the Selects it'd only be about $600 AUD difference. Any information would be very much appreciated.
Thank you good sir 🙏👍
The main difference between the entry level Zeb and the Ultimate is the damper. There are a few other small improvements that make the Ultimate "best" but the damper will provide the biggest difference. The neat thing about these forks is you can swap dampers and air springs to make them what you want. The Charger 3 damper is usually around $360US and it's a 5 minute job to swap out.
Thanks for getting back to me mate. I'm still thinking about testing out those nicer internals. I think in a few months when I get my first fork and shock service at me LBS I'll ask them to do the upgrade. My previous forks were Fox 36 performance but I was never really that happy with them, they always felt a bit harsh no matter what I played with on the clickers. For the money I think the internal upgrade to the Rockshox might be a nice little addition. Definitely not necessary for my speed/skill level but what's a few hundred $ on a $10k bike in the scheme of things haha@@ButterSuspension
I have a question. Can I put 190mm air shaft to zeb R?
Yes. All Zebs share the same "chassis" so you can swap parts between them, including air shafts.
Hi did you use 3ml 0w30 insted or MAXIMA PLUSH DYNAMIC HEAVY ?
I did! Two things; this video was made before Rockshox changed over to the "new" oils, and technically speaking, bath oil isn't THAT critical in terms of makeup. Using 0W-30 will not affect performance.
I wonder if even the 150mm, 29" ZEB Ultimate Charger 2.1 RC2 fork could be converted to 170mm?
Yep, Zeb can go up to 190mm.
Hi. Are there any restrictions. As in I want to go from 160 to 180 for my new frame?
Thanks in advance!
Restrictions on the fork or the new frame? The fork can go up to 190mm. You can contact the manufacturer of your frame to see if they have any limits on fork travel.
@@ButterSuspension was just about the forks, my old frame was maxed at 160, and my new frame is minimum 170 to 180. thanks.
It's possible to go lower? To the 100mm? With some custom tuning air spring? Thx 😊
Maybe the longer "red spacer" 🤔
Technically you can make a custom air shaft to go that low, but the overall design of this air spring is for longer travel. The Pike DJ is more appropriate for that travel size.
You can't change travel by moving the air piston into the chamber as the positive/negative chamber equalization has to happen at the air dimple that's machined into the upper leg. This is why different length shafts are needed to change travel, not spacers.
Hey just one question can I change the travel of the zeb that comes stock on the trek slash 8 can I change that to 180 or 190
Yes.
I have a question. What do you think is better for the rockshox airspring. Just using Sram butter or as you have done use the rockshox dynamic seal grease and then add some oil above the airspring?
I think the difference between SRAM butter and the dynamic grease is minimal; if I didn't have the green stuff it would just be SRAM butter. The oil on top just keeps things a little slicker. But any chance I can make it just a little better, might as well!
Can the air spring shaft interchange from A1 to A2? I have a 190 A2 butter cup spring, can i switch to 170 A1 shaft? Do you know if the shaft are the same from A1 to A2?
All Zebs are interchangeable in regards to air springs and dampers, as well as lowers. And even though the air springs are interchangeable, they are not the same since the newer models have buttercup.
Can you change a 160 zeb to a 190 zeb by just changing the air shaft?
Yup!
What about with the 2021-2022 zeb ultimate going to 190mm? I think on the fork it says somewhere 180 is the max.
www.sram.com/en/service/models/fs-zeb-ult-a1
Definitely goes to 190.
hi guys,its possible upgrade rs domain to 190mm? greetings from portugal
Looks like the Domain can only go up to 180mm.
Is there any way to lower a Zeb below 150? I'd love to have one at 120mm for my next 29er hardtail build.
Not without some super fancy custom machining. Rockshox limits travel based on chassis size, so they assuming if you need less than 150 you should be on a Lyrik or Pike.
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Domain 27.5 170 or Zeb charger r 27.5 170
For Dartmoor hornet 27.5
???
tibetan throat singing background noise was a bad idea. Otherwise great video!
Ok now do a circa 2012 36. 😂
Too many Legos needed!🤣