@@087pro Try using the speed up playback. There are few TH-cam channels that I love to watch but they just put me to sleep on normal speed on 1.25 or 1.5 they are perfect.
Take away - “Run more pressure than you probably think”. Totally agree. I’ve found this out through trial and error. It doesn’t feel more harsh at 100psi compared to the 85psi I was running previously and I’m sitting higher in the travel.
OK, so I commented only 7 hours ago. I have been running 30% sag on my forks for 3 years with the belief that less air = more plush. However, I literally hit my local trail a few hours ago purely to test this video theory. I added 10psi to bring sag to 20% expecting it to be more firm. It WASN'T in-fact it was awesome. For the first time I understand sag properly. What an awesome video. Thank you Semi-Sendy
In a MTB video space that is overrun with suspension set-up guides, this is legitimately good advice that is typically not stated elsewhere, and I can personally vouch for the truth in both of your points. Super quality content, love the channel, keep it up.
Other channels don't mention this because they assume that people will actually follow the manufacturer's instructions and not try to be smart by doing their own thing. Putting your settings on the lower side of the range is still "in -ange", and there's nothing wrong with it as long as you make your adjustments while keeping the settings in-range.
I come from brakeless bmx, so my natural inclination has always been to run a high pressure for a more "rigid" feel. Plenty of people have told me I should drop 10-15psi in my fork, but I always felt nothing I was doing needed that much travel. This completely validates what I already kinda knew, and without the youtube fluff!
exactly the same here, I run way higher psi than others especially with the rear shock, I'm so used to absorb impacts with my body I don't need that much travel, I'm running 120/120 on trails
Exactly the same here. I find myself constantly wanting the rear end to feel instant and poppy like it used to. Been a real shift in how my brain operates a bike
Excellent teaching voice, because you talk at a steady pace and use clear simple language.. I'm a retired/tired English teacher and your explanations are the best I've encountered. Thanks for your help in making my riding safer and more enjoyable!
YES, thanks for sharing this! This same exact topic gets hashed over and over again on every forum, etc for 'rough, harsh' feeling suspension! LESS isn't MORE!
OMG!! I've been making BOTH those mistakes for years! Finally, a video that clearly explains why more air/less sag is actually a solution to more supple ride. I love how this is not a manufacturer specific issue but something that should really be considered "Air Shock 101." I've never considered adding air pressure out of fear it would make my riding experience worse, but it has changed everything for me. Not only have I finally found the suppleness I've been searching for, but my bike is handling significantly better. I actually started to blame my bike as potentially having a "poor design" for the sketchy loose feel. Funny...such a simple (but hard-to-find) solution.
agree completely. on forks 160mm and greater, using full travel is rarely desirable. the fork travel is there to both maintain a certain 'dynamic ride height' and geometry for riding hard and the last say, 20mm of travel are purely reserve for the biggest (and probably, unplanned) hits that are potentially saving you (maybe) from full loss of control and dirt or rock nap.
if you have "bottomless tokens" or volume spacers in your fork/shock, remove them before changing air pressure/sag. the ramp up in spring force will happen later in the travel. Works especially well for lightweight riders like myself on longer travel bikes.
Very much depends on your situation. To not bottom out my fork when riding, i had to decrease my sag below the advised values. At that point it can actually help, as too little sag is also not good for performance.
Spot on. I came to this realisation naturally when I decided to put more air in at both ends to firm up the bike for smoother terrain. What I noticed was with more air, I was getting a smoother response on smaller trail chatter at both ends. At lower pressures, as stated - I was riding more in the stroke of my suspension and it wasn't responding well to chatter on the trail.
The worst initial setup advice, when I got into riding, was that your fork should use all of its travel at least once or twice on the trail you ride. ..... This video is spot on 👍🏻
I remember the advice as „use all the travel on the highest drop you are doing on your doing on a normal ride“. But the saying also dosent consider, that some people are „overbiked“.
This is super helpful! I have made this same mistake. Great, logical explanation that cuts through the confusion and will benefit a bunch of people. Thanks for making this 👍
been riding for a while now but never really messed around too much with my suspension settings, once they felt decent i just kinda rolled with it. I also had a coil shock so once set it didn't really need much adjusting. i just recently upgraded to a new bike with much more customizable suspension (including the change to air shock) and after the first few rides was really noticing how much more chatter i was feeling in the rear, and diving in the fork. Watching your videos was hugely helpful for both understanding and dialing in the suspension to a point where now the fork is eating up rocks and roots comfortably, and the rear is staying plush and on the trail. cheers mate, definitely earned yourself a sub
I'm definitely guilty of chasing suppleness by lowering pressures. Your video was an eyeopener and I'll be experimenting with some higher pressures. Thanks so much for posting this.
Exactly... I've been riding all my life and it takes a willingness to constantly work with your suspension. You will get it wrong many times before you get it right, but too soft will cause as many problems as too hard. It took me two years of riding, racing, and changing components on my KX 450 before I finally came up with settings that I liked. I am now riding and racing a 2021 Canyon Torque CF 9 and I am going through the same scenario, but getting closer everyday. Get a digital air gauge, a notebook, and keep track of settings for the places your ride be it XC or downhill.
So true! I think the tough part here is that when people come into the sport, they aren't doing so to get into suspension tuning, they are doing it to have fun on two wheels out in the woods. Setting up suspension feels like more of a hurdle and annoyance when all you want to do is go ride your bike. My hope with this video (and a couple that will follow including one that I'm putting out today) is to try and simplify things enough to help avoid pitfalls and get people a little more comfortable with finding something that works a bit better and helps maximize their fun on the trail. Today's video release focuses on rebound and compression, and I've tried my best to make it a bit less intimidating.
Of all of the suspension chat on TH-cam, I would recommend watching Vorsprung Suspension's 'Tuesday Tune' series. Deep concepts, explained clearly by someone who actually has the knowledge to back it up! He is also an advocate of simply cutting off your travel O-ring, which similar to your last point, absolutely makes sense to me.
I’m in the o-ring is mostly useless camp as well. I’ll have to check out the Tuesday tune stuff sometime. Quite a few things I’ve learned over the years have come from guys like Steve.
good to know that there are lots of us who think the same way. i am just a beginner by all means, but i always wanted to ride higher on my suspension travel because i wanted to maintain the geometry of the bike , i don't want to feel like going over the bar when emergency braking and i wanted to reserve the rest of the travel for bigger hits, especially, that i'm using a hardtail.
Boom!.... ive been thinking the same on both of these points for a few years. But never heard anyone else say it. Great to see. Everyone should see this vid. At last!!! 👏
I think those set up woes, in addition to air leaking out slowly, pushed me towards a full coil set up. But I’ve been itching to go back to air to make the rig more lively in pumping and pedaling support. This makes it seem much less scary! Thanks for the vid.
Good advice for a majority of riders. I’d like to add that most higher end suspension has a negative air chamber. What happens when you increase your positive air is that you also increase the negative air which adds suppleness to the initial stroke. Cheers!
This is something which is mentioned a lot in motocross suspension setup, but i've rarely seen mentioned for MTB's. Commonly, amateur motocross guys will just go softer and softer on their preload and damping dials to dial out harshness or reduce arm pump, and the fork ends up operating deeper into its stroke and the harshness just gets worse.
Recently replaced a stolen Yeti SB115 with a Revel Ranger and your Ranger video helped me realize I made a fine upgrade. Thanks for the simple suspension breakdown! Derek
Huge bummer on the SB115, but I'm really glad to hear you were able to replace it with the Ranger. I know I've not talked about it on the channel too much since my initial video on it, but it's honestly my favorite bike I own right now....and possibly ever. It's just such a lively, playful and capable bike.
F=P*A, meaning - force of an air spring (holding your weight) is equal to pressure (PSI) multiplied by an air piston area. Since the piston area doesn't change, you can correlate pressure directly to the force. If a fork is really progressive: 33% sag will increase the starting pressure to, let's say, 200% (from 40psi to 80psi), which is a lot and your fork will feel harsh. But if your fork is not really progressive (bigger forks, with larger air chambers and no volume tokens): 33% sag will only increase the starting pressure to, let's say, 140% (from 40psi to 56psi), which isn't a lot and you will still have a plush ride. Your logic is correct, but can only be applied if a fork is really progressive.
Very well done. Good information, professional video editing. Even after many years of riding, suspension set-up is my Achilles heal in mountain biking. It is like I have a brain block or something...
Telling all the secrets haha!! People make the same mistake with compression too. A smoother ride is not always achieved by opening compression. Fully open normally leads to a harsher ride than you want because you will be spending more time in that mid stroke.
Exactly! Going to be getting into rebound and compression in the next (or soon) video. Hoping to remove some of the intimidation and reluctance people often have towards finding proper settings for themselves.
I've made the last one a time ago. I used think I needed to be using all the travel: until I went over the bars a couple times in steeper terrain. I was blowing through the travel too fast in more gnar. I guess I learned it the hard way. Great job on these tips. 🤙
Got me to check my air pressure, and I let some out since I weigh less than I used to. My fork never felt better. Glad to have some small bump compliance back. I agree with everyone else that this was very helpful.
This very concisely explains why my newer Pike, which rides much higher in its travel than the outgoing version, actually feels incredibly smooth. Great advice and a fresh point of view to keep in mind!
Without a doubt the most informative short vid about air pressures. Been out of the riding game for twelve years and so much tech to try and take in now. Great stuff mate.
Excellent video. I have recently taken the same view as what you provide in this video and have gone to firmer spring as well as firmer overall in terms of Low Speed compression. I realised that I was losing a lot of my energy inputs to my ride because I was running my suspension too plush for the terrain that I ride. This was a result of exactly the mentality that you describe in your video i.e I am not using 80% of my travel so let some more air out etc. While plush feels comfortable, I discovered , when riding a hire bike and afterwards changing my set up approach, that my plush set up was causing me to lose speed on the trails because my pumping inputs were being absorbed by my suspension. In addition, the bike was less "poppy" off small bumps and big jumps in the plush setting. I started experimenting on both my bikes suspension set up and have gone to less sag and from fully open to closing by a few clicks the LSC setting and find a completely different ride. In addition, on the uphills I am not sagging in to and jagging on to obstacles, and am using less energy on the climbs. EDIT: I am always experimenting with settings anyway, but the current set up results in a suspension that feels more like a Ferrari as opposed to previously feeling like a rocking boat in a storm, especially when moving the body weight around. I don't dive as much under braking. Down steeper trails and over obstacles I am riding higher in the travel with the result that I don't feel like I am overbalancing towards the front of the bike.
This video was right on time for me. After my ride this morning, I was under the mistaken idea of the "100% travel" myth and was about to increase my sag lol. Thanks!
This guy is spot on but it’s also important to note that the reason people get suspension settings wrong is because they try and find the holy grail of an all terrain set up when the bottom line is you need to set the fork to each trail and each type of terrain every time to optimise performance, some trails need higher pressure than others but the principle this wonderful man explains are absolutely on point. Thanks for the upload.
Wouldn't change the air pressure to adjust to the trail. Changing compression settings is easier and more intuitive - if you're changing air pressure from trail to trail your bike handling will also change a lot. Also you can find a decent setup that works pretty good on 99% of all trails.
@@anonymmc2764 Good point, I guess it’s up to the rider, if it’s a virgin trail I personally ride the trail first, take a mental note and adjust the suspension to suit for my second run, I time my runs over 5 laps and take into consideration my time vs my comfort, when I find that sweet spot I note my settings on my maps for said trail should I ride it again in the future, got quite the database now. 👍
Your right, no one really mentions this in any other suspension video but it’s a great point! I have been doing this recently trying to soften the beginning of my forks travel. Thanks
Good job my man!! I follow this rule on motorcycles. I like less sag (riding high in the stroke) and lighter valving so most of the travel is plush. I see it's pretty much the same for air suspension.
This! You cannot imagine, how heated the discussions with my friends are, regarding this topic! Thanks for the video, will forward it to them to (hopefully) silence them forever!
There’s a lot of conflicting information out there. At the end of the day, I support people doing what works best for them, but interestingly a lot of people never try adjusting and experimenting in the lower percentage range to see what might result for them. It’s awesome when people finally dig into this concept and find that “aha” moment.
Great video Rich. Explanations were spot on and simple. Wish I would have heard this years ago. Would have saved myself a lot of suspension tuning time. Had to learn the hard way
I've found this to be true, as I've gone for less and less sag (also running a newer rockshox Charger 2.1 damper air stack that holds the bike up even further into the shallow sag zone). I do run a bit more air pressure than I think I like right now, but when the trail gets gnarly, it really smooths out the zings. Everything is a tradeoff. you gotta tune for the 'oh shit' conditions if you find yourself flinging yourself into that envelope. So many variables - it's a game I never tire of playing
Ugh I wish this video came out sooner! I made these mistakes and am just now realizing why my fork feels dialed after adding air! Settled on a nice 69 psi for my 36
Good video. I think there is a fine line between too much and too little sag. Going to far in either direction will not be optimal. It all depends on the terrain and how aggressive you ride. Another important component of this is volume reducers. They will fine-tune your bottom out resistance. Adding or removing volume reducers will require adjustments to your air pressure to reset sag because of the reduction or increase in the air chamber where the reducers sit. I think everyone should learn how to set up their own suspension. It’s to your advantage and is very rewarding.
Smile /// Just got into mountain biking and after half a dozen rides was going to start adjusting suspension from the standard settings. Yes i was going to start lower pressure in my forks and shock to cushion ride on trials with smaller roots and rocks. Thank you for this info. I would of just been screwing myself going to wrong direction .
Absolutely, glad to help, Mark! At the end of the day, it's all about what feels best to you, don't don't be afraid to explore around a bit. If you want to takes things a bit further one you get your pressure dialed, check out the follow up video to this one for Rebound and Compression settings. You'll definitely want to make sure you get your rebound setup too if nothing else!
Awesome vid that every biker needs to see :-) It is also the reason why I ride spring f+r at 25% sag (Ohlins on Sworks Enduro), exactly for the reasons explained. Thanks.
Nicely done and I agree. I get my suspension sag set to my personal liking and push my "fun-o-meters" to the max, cause how it feels and performs on a given trail trumps that little O-Ring. Keeps the "experts" from commenting as well, LOL.
Really good advice! Would just add that rebound setting goes hand in hand with psi. So if you change pressure you should also change rebound accordingly
Thank you sir. I have a cheap Diamondback Lone 27.5" I got for $850 for the winter from performance bicycle before the closed. My Original fork SR suntour XCR got seized because inwas riding it for 4 years and never serviced it, so now I am upgrading do Minatou Markhor 27.5" 9×100mm straight steerer and I am verybglad and thankful that I've watched this video because I learned from it that I pretty much destroyed the original fork by doing exactly what you said, making it looser even though it wasn't air fork it bottomed out on me many times. Thanks you, now This new fork will last me much longer. Owe you 🍺 🍻 🍺
I ride a 170 170 bike and run 18% sag in my fork amd 28% in my shock and the bike is an absolute caddie but still pumps and boost so hard. This video is spot on!!!
I have been battling a slightly firm.Feeling rear shock on my current full suspension mountain bike when setting sag in the standing position. After switching to settings sag in the seated position which resulted in a slightly higher initial pressure at thirty percent sag, the rear end actually felt more supple.Dude who riding a little higher in the stroke. Basically it seems this video holds true for rear shocks as well.
Very good advice! Another tip I've found is that rebound should generally be more open (i.e set to return or spring back) faster for a better ride. When I first started out I was scared to set rebound too fast.
What about on jumps? I’m over 200 lb and I slow ALL my setting down otherwise the suspension is trying to buck me also helps on breaking bumps at high speed and way less arm pump, I ride bike park 90% of the time.
@@andrewrivera4029It’s no different on jumps. If you feel bucked it’s about you weight transfer on the bike as you are launching, you’ve got to get your weight over the rear wheel as you are leaving the lip, just like you are dining a bunny hop. Then, you won’t have problems with feeling bucked. But it takes time to practice and have it dialed in one every kind of jump. Keep active and get the bunny hop dialed in and you will feel the control. Good luck!
Excellent video. I have never thought of the ramp up of air pressure causing a fork to ride harsh with a lot of sag. I think it is a case of running near the recommended sag. That said, I think forks that have independent air for the positive and negative side of the spring likely have more ability to be tuned to run smoothly with more sag. I have had great luck setting up my CC Helm with more sag but I never the Helm may be better than some of the other forks I've run for this.
Tnx for a helpful video. But I do feel there is more to "suspension" than only the front fork or shock setup. Tier pressure is for me an overlooked point. As well as the carbon vs alloy rims. And not to forget the handlebar and grip choice
Hahaha! Just went for a ride yesterday with a new high-end fork...without making any adjustments! Was so harsh my hands almost flew off the grips. This video came at just the right time and is the most valuable suspension video Ive seen. I agree, without getting Sag right, nothing else will be optimal. Thanks so much!
I have the same fork as you. I have a MRP Ramp Control installed and set fully open. Fork was at 80psi for 30% sag. I now have it set to 102 psi for 20% sag. Damper is completely open accept for rebound which is set to 4 out from full slow. My Shock is Super Deluxe RCT3 with one volume spacer. I went from 300psi at 30% sag to 325psi at 27% sag. Damper open accept for rebound which is 5 out from full slow. I weight 280lbs fully geared up. Gonna try this new set up tomorrow. Around the street it felt more efficient and poppy right away.
@@SemiSendy It is faster and more efficient everywhere. Much stiffer, and I was getting kicked from the rear shock on medium to large jumps. But I reduced my volume spacers and added a few clicks of rebound and it is way better👊🏻😎
Well done! I always try and approach topics like this from the mindset of someone who hasn't really encountered these ideas before; it's easy to make assumptions about how people think about more complex ideas. You totally hit the nail on the head in terms of clarity and context! Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
4:15 This originated from downhill racing, where you only have 1 Track and you ride it several times. Back in the early days bikes had much less travel (even no travel) so everyone tried to use the hole 2 or 3 inches the fork or frame could provide.
How close were you to the recommended pressure on the Rockshox Trailhead App. ? I have a 170mm Zeb and run 7psi less than recommended. About 22% sag. Great video. Love your channel. Cheers
Rich! Your voice is like a smooth cup of coffee…☕️ how do you feel about tokens? Currently filming a video about the positive affects a smaller air chamber can have one the small bump compliance as well as added support in the mid-stroke. Keep it up bro🤘🏻
Haha, thanks my man! Tokens are definitely great for dialing things in even further. I look at them as a final layer in my tuning process. I'll have to check out your video once it's live. 🤘😊
So, in a nutshell, my takeaway was to set sag to the smallest amount recommended by the manufacturer and don't adjust pressure no matter what trail you are riding. I very much like things that are set it and forget it. I'm eager to hear the recommendations for rebound and compression.
The biggest point I want to get across is that often times people start by running more sag and when the fork doesn’t feel great, they continue to drop pressure when in fact adding pressure more often the not will make the fork feel much better. Once you found the setting that’s desirable for you, wherever the percentage feels really smooth and very supportive, then you generally don’t need to adjust pressure from trail to trail. You certainly don’t need to drop pressure on more mild trails just so that you’re using more travel.
Jesus ... that was good. I do exactly that. Fork feels harsh. Very little compression dialled on, so I think, lower that main chamber air pressure more ... what else can it be. I'm going to experiment with this.
This videos is a must watch for 95% of riders. Seen almost everyone, even myself make those mistakes
Thanks, Noah! 🤘😊
X2, but that monotone put me right to sleep
@@087pro you need to improve your attention span. not every youtuber need to sound like a "for kids" channel.
@@087pro Try using the speed up playback. There are few TH-cam channels that I love to watch but they just put me to sleep on normal speed on 1.25 or 1.5 they are perfect.
to be fair most youtubers including big channels give bad guidance, weirdly
Take away - “Run more pressure than you probably think”. Totally agree. I’ve found this out through trial and error. It doesn’t feel more harsh at 100psi compared to the 85psi I was running previously and I’m sitting higher in the travel.
OK, so I commented only 7 hours ago. I have been running 30% sag on my forks for 3 years with the belief that less air = more plush. However, I literally hit my local trail a few hours ago purely to test this video theory. I added 10psi to bring sag to 20% expecting it to be more firm. It WASN'T in-fact it was awesome. For the first time I understand sag properly. What an awesome video. Thank you Semi-Sendy
In a MTB video space that is overrun with suspension set-up guides, this is legitimately good advice that is typically not stated elsewhere, and I can personally vouch for the truth in both of your points. Super quality content, love the channel, keep it up.
Thanks, Nathan!
Other channels don't mention this because they assume that people will actually follow the manufacturer's instructions and not try to be smart by doing their own thing. Putting your settings on the lower side of the range is still "in -ange", and there's nothing wrong with it as long as you make your adjustments while keeping the settings in-range.
@@sepg5084 that's true Sep G.
Just keep the SAG on this manufacturers 30% allways!
Some suspension guides in bicycle magazines are becoming "SPACE FILLERS " rather than getting to the point promptly .
@Kyrpaable But it depends on total fork travel and also oil level / S.S.V. response / oil displacement rates .
I come from brakeless bmx, so my natural inclination has always been to run a high pressure for a more "rigid" feel. Plenty of people have told me I should drop 10-15psi in my fork, but I always felt nothing I was doing needed that much travel. This completely validates what I already kinda knew, and without the youtube fluff!
exactly the same here, I run way higher psi than others especially with the rear shock, I'm so used to absorb impacts with my body I don't need that much travel, I'm running 120/120 on trails
Exactly the same here. I find myself constantly wanting the rear end to feel instant and poppy like it used to. Been a real shift in how my brain operates a bike
Excellent teaching voice, because you talk at a steady pace and use clear simple language.. I'm a retired/tired English teacher and your explanations are the best I've encountered. Thanks for your help in making my riding safer and more enjoyable!
I only do live tutorials but tend to speak quickly as I have worked in radio broadcasting .
YES, thanks for sharing this! This same exact topic gets hashed over and over again on every forum, etc for 'rough, harsh' feeling suspension! LESS isn't MORE!
OMG!! I've been making BOTH those mistakes for years! Finally, a video that clearly explains why more air/less sag is actually a solution to more supple ride. I love how this is not a manufacturer specific issue but something that should really be considered "Air Shock 101." I've never considered adding air pressure out of fear it would make my riding experience worse, but it has changed everything for me. Not only have I finally found the suppleness I've been searching for, but my bike is handling significantly better. I actually started to blame my bike as potentially having a "poor design" for the sketchy loose feel. Funny...such a simple (but hard-to-find) solution.
agree completely. on forks 160mm and greater, using full travel is rarely desirable. the fork travel is there to both maintain a certain 'dynamic ride height' and geometry for riding hard and the last say, 20mm of travel are purely reserve for the biggest (and probably, unplanned) hits that are potentially saving you (maybe) from full loss of control and dirt or rock nap.
if you have "bottomless tokens" or volume spacers in your fork/shock, remove them before changing air pressure/sag. the ramp up in spring force will happen later in the travel. Works especially well for lightweight riders like myself on longer travel bikes.
Very much depends on your situation. To not bottom out my fork when riding, i had to decrease my sag below the advised values. At that point it can actually help, as too little sag is also not good for performance.
Unless ur more than 110kgs
Spot on.
I came to this realisation naturally when I decided to put more air in at both ends to firm up the bike for smoother terrain. What I noticed was with more air, I was getting a smoother response on smaller trail chatter at both ends.
At lower pressures, as stated - I was riding more in the stroke of my suspension and it wasn't responding well to chatter on the trail.
But you can go too far with too high an air pressure level . The optimum range is fairly narrow .
One of the best most comprehensive shock setting video I've seen (I've seen many)
Another advantage to running less sag is that the bottom bracket height is increased leading to fewer pedal strikes.
I Run 12% Both Coils 😎
@@darrinkulyk9560 Try 11% it's a gemchanger!
A very well articulated description of a common setup pitfall. I've made this mistake a few times in years past. Thanks for posting.
Thank you, Dino! Glad you enjoyed this one.
The worst initial setup advice, when I got into riding, was that your fork should use all of its travel at least once or twice on the trail you ride. ..... This video is spot on 👍🏻
I think the logic is almost there. The fork should use all of its travel once or twice a ride, by hitting a trail/feature that makes it do that
I remember the advice as „use all the travel on the highest drop you are doing on your doing on a normal ride“. But the saying also dosent consider, that some people are „overbiked“.
Ditto.. this vid opened my eyes to the basic truth.. hard to find nowadays!!! Kudos to this channel
The simplest expanation of fundamentals how to setup forks I have ever watched on YT. Good job! 👍
This is super helpful! I have made this same mistake. Great, logical explanation that cuts through the confusion and will benefit a bunch of people. Thanks for making this 👍
Thank you! I hope it’s helpful to a lot of people.
been riding for a while now but never really messed around too much with my suspension settings, once they felt decent i just kinda rolled with it. I also had a coil shock so once set it didn't really need much adjusting.
i just recently upgraded to a new bike with much more customizable suspension (including the change to air shock) and after the first few rides was really noticing how much more chatter i was feeling in the rear, and diving in the fork. Watching your videos was hugely helpful for both understanding and dialing in the suspension to a point where now the fork is eating up rocks and roots comfortably, and the rear is staying plush and on the trail.
cheers mate, definitely earned yourself a sub
I'm definitely guilty of chasing suppleness by lowering pressures. Your video was an eyeopener and I'll be experimenting with some higher pressures. Thanks so much for posting this.
Glad it helped!
Exactly... I've been riding all my life and it takes a willingness to constantly work with your suspension. You will get it wrong many times before you get it right, but too soft will cause as many problems as too hard. It took me two years of riding, racing, and changing components on my KX 450 before I finally came up with settings that I liked. I am now riding and racing a 2021 Canyon Torque CF 9 and I am going through the same scenario, but getting closer everyday. Get a digital air gauge, a notebook, and keep track of settings for the places your ride be it XC or downhill.
So true! I think the tough part here is that when people come into the sport, they aren't doing so to get into suspension tuning, they are doing it to have fun on two wheels out in the woods. Setting up suspension feels like more of a hurdle and annoyance when all you want to do is go ride your bike.
My hope with this video (and a couple that will follow including one that I'm putting out today) is to try and simplify things enough to help avoid pitfalls and get people a little more comfortable with finding something that works a bit better and helps maximize their fun on the trail.
Today's video release focuses on rebound and compression, and I've tried my best to make it a bit less intimidating.
Of all of the suspension chat on TH-cam, I would recommend watching Vorsprung Suspension's 'Tuesday Tune' series. Deep concepts, explained clearly by someone who actually has the knowledge to back it up! He is also an advocate of simply cutting off your travel O-ring, which similar to your last point, absolutely makes sense to me.
I’m in the o-ring is mostly useless camp as well. I’ll have to check out the Tuesday tune stuff sometime. Quite a few things I’ve learned over the years have come from guys like Steve.
good to know that there are lots of us who think the same way. i am just a beginner by all means, but i always wanted to ride higher on my suspension travel because i wanted to maintain the geometry of the bike , i don't want to feel like going over the bar when emergency braking and i wanted to reserve the rest of the travel for bigger hits, especially, that i'm using a hardtail.
Probably the most important thing to know when setting up suspension. Great vid!
This is spot on ! 30 percent sag is misleading, especially when your doing bigger impact landings…
You'd be surprised how many 'experts' shop staff & so called 'mechanics' recommend 30% sag! 🤦♂️
I go for 15 percent as a starting point .
Boom!.... ive been thinking the same on both of these points for a few years. But never heard anyone else say it. Great to see. Everyone should see this vid. At last!!! 👏
I think those set up woes, in addition to air leaking out slowly, pushed me towards a full coil set up. But I’ve been itching to go back to air to make the rig more lively in pumping and pedaling support. This makes it seem much less scary! Thanks for the vid.
Good advice for a majority of riders. I’d like to add that most higher end suspension has a negative air chamber. What happens when you increase your positive air is that you also increase the negative air which adds suppleness to the initial stroke. Cheers!
EVOL air sleeve...
Englund have had upgrade kits for this function in the past .
Woohoo!!!!! A Titan Racing Cypher in the video. Awesome bike! Extremely unknown and largely under rated.
This is something which is mentioned a lot in motocross suspension setup, but i've rarely seen mentioned for MTB's. Commonly, amateur motocross guys will just go softer and softer on their preload and damping dials to dial out harshness or reduce arm pump, and the fork ends up operating deeper into its stroke and the harshness just gets worse.
Recently replaced a stolen Yeti SB115 with a Revel Ranger and your Ranger video helped me realize I made a fine upgrade. Thanks for the simple suspension breakdown! Derek
Huge bummer on the SB115, but I'm really glad to hear you were able to replace it with the Ranger. I know I've not talked about it on the channel too much since my initial video on it, but it's honestly my favorite bike I own right now....and possibly ever. It's just such a lively, playful and capable bike.
F=P*A, meaning - force of an air spring (holding your weight) is equal to pressure (PSI) multiplied by an air piston area. Since the piston area doesn't change, you can correlate pressure directly to the force.
If a fork is really progressive: 33% sag will increase the starting pressure to, let's say, 200% (from 40psi to 80psi), which is a lot and your fork will feel harsh.
But if your fork is not really progressive (bigger forks, with larger air chambers and no volume tokens): 33% sag will only increase the starting pressure to, let's say, 140% (from 40psi to 56psi), which isn't a lot and you will still have a plush ride.
Your logic is correct, but can only be applied if a fork is really progressive.
And the advice is extremely relevant to rear shocks, where the piston size is very much smaller.
@@rog86 yes, but again, XV chamber is pretty much linear, it's plush anywhere in the stroke. SV chamber, progressive - harsh if too much sag.
Very well done. Good information, professional video editing. Even after many years of riding, suspension set-up is my Achilles heal in mountain biking. It is like I have a brain block or something...
Telling all the secrets haha!! People make the same mistake with compression too. A smoother ride is not always achieved by opening compression. Fully open normally leads to a harsher ride than you want because you will be spending more time in that mid stroke.
This!
Exactly! Going to be getting into rebound and compression in the next (or soon) video. Hoping to remove some of the intimidation and reluctance people often have towards finding proper settings for themselves.
SO glad somebody can break it down properly, Thank you!
I've made the last one a time ago. I used think I needed to be using all the travel: until I went over the bars a couple times in steeper terrain. I was blowing through the travel too fast in more gnar. I guess I learned it the hard way. Great job on these tips. 🤙
I learned the hard way too. 🤦🏻😂
Got me to check my air pressure, and I let some out since I weigh less than I used to. My fork never felt better. Glad to have some small bump compliance back. I agree with everyone else that this was very helpful.
This video was the most useful video I’ve seen on suspension setup
Damn dawg you just flipped my world upside down 👍🏼
This very concisely explains why my newer Pike, which rides much higher in its travel than the outgoing version, actually feels incredibly smooth. Great advice and a fresh point of view to keep in mind!
Without a doubt the most informative short vid about air pressures. Been out of the riding game for twelve years and so much tech to try and take in now. Great stuff mate.
Thanks, Moosh!
Thanks for the great video. I’ve always been under the impression I should use all of my travel and will be given this ago today. Cheers from a newbie
Until now I was the one who was thinking that more sag more fun:) I will change my bike configuration!
Thanks man&have fun!
After 30 years I have my first air shock. Thanks for the advice!
Excellent video. I have recently taken the same view as what you provide in this video and have gone to firmer spring as well as firmer overall in terms of Low Speed compression. I realised that I was losing a lot of my energy inputs to my ride because I was running my suspension too plush for the terrain that I ride. This was a result of exactly the mentality that you describe in your video i.e I am not using 80% of my travel so let some more air out etc. While plush feels comfortable, I discovered , when riding a hire bike and afterwards changing my set up approach, that my plush set up was causing me to lose speed on the trails because my pumping inputs were being absorbed by my suspension. In addition, the bike was less "poppy" off small bumps and big jumps in the plush setting. I started experimenting on both my bikes suspension set up and have gone to less sag and from fully open to closing by a few clicks the LSC setting and find a completely different ride. In addition, on the uphills I am not sagging in to and jagging on to obstacles, and am using less energy on the climbs. EDIT: I am always experimenting with settings anyway, but the current set up results in a suspension that feels more like a Ferrari as opposed to previously feeling like a rocking boat in a storm, especially when moving the body weight around. I don't dive as much under braking. Down steeper trails and over obstacles I am riding higher in the travel with the result that I don't feel like I am overbalancing towards the front of the bike.
Thanks, I was in the guilty camp of letting more air out! This cleared it up =D
Vorsprung smashpot up front and Push eleven six in back! So lovely!
This video was right on time for me. After my ride this morning, I was under the mistaken idea of the "100% travel" myth and was about to increase my sag lol. Thanks!
This guy is spot on but it’s also important to note that the reason people get suspension settings wrong is because they try and find the holy grail of an all terrain set up when the bottom line is you need to set the fork to each trail and each type of terrain every time to optimise performance, some trails need higher pressure than others but the principle this wonderful man explains are absolutely on point. Thanks for the upload.
Wouldn't change the air pressure to adjust to the trail. Changing compression settings is easier and more intuitive - if you're changing air pressure from trail to trail your bike handling will also change a lot.
Also you can find a decent setup that works pretty good on 99% of all trails.
@@anonymmc2764 Good point, I guess it’s up to the rider, if it’s a virgin trail I personally ride the trail first, take a mental note and adjust the suspension to suit for my second run, I time my runs over 5 laps and take into consideration my time vs my comfort, when I find that sweet spot I note my settings on my maps for said trail should I ride it again in the future, got quite the database now. 👍
Good Video, thanks. Havent watched it before, because the title sounds a lot like clickbait but came here through your rebound video.
Your right, no one really mentions this in any other suspension video but it’s a great point! I have been doing this recently trying to soften the beginning of my forks travel. Thanks
Came here to shit on a video that looked like it was emulating bermpeak thumbnails for clicks and found this video actually has good advice. Thanks!
Good job my man!! I follow this rule on motorcycles. I like less sag (riding high in the stroke) and lighter valving so most of the travel is plush. I see it's pretty much the same for air suspension.
This! You cannot imagine, how heated the discussions with my friends are, regarding this topic! Thanks for the video, will forward it to them to (hopefully) silence them forever!
This video could be the light bulb moment I've been waiting for!! Cheers bro! Gonna reset ma suspension the morra and try it out! 🤘
Hope it helps!
Been explaing this one to customers for years, always fun watching the penny drop as to why they are have trouble.
There’s a lot of conflicting information out there. At the end of the day, I support people doing what works best for them, but interestingly a lot of people never try adjusting and experimenting in the lower percentage range to see what might result for them. It’s awesome when people finally dig into this concept and find that “aha” moment.
All my clients are close to "ON THE MONEY" with their setup as I have developed guide charts to help them .
Fantastic vid, makes complete sense - I just put 160psi in my front forks & 300 in the rear - to get the sag right to the bare minimum, for my weight.
Thanks for a super useful video that explains things very clearly and concisely. Subscribed!
Great video Rich. Explanations were spot on and simple. Wish I would have heard this years ago. Would have saved myself a lot of suspension tuning time. Had to learn the hard way
Glad you enjoyed it! I too had to learn the hard way. This approach was definitely a light bulb moment for me.
I've found this to be true, as I've gone for less and less sag (also running a newer rockshox Charger 2.1 damper air stack that holds the bike up even further into the shallow sag zone). I do run a bit more air pressure than I think I like right now, but when the trail gets gnarly, it really smooths out the zings. Everything is a tradeoff. you gotta tune for the 'oh shit' conditions if you find yourself flinging yourself into that envelope. So many variables - it's a game I never tire of playing
Man the amount of camera work and riding shots to go along with your explanations is amazing! Awesome riding!
Thank you! 🤘
Ugh I wish this video came out sooner! I made these mistakes and am just now realizing why my fork feels dialed after adding air! Settled on a nice 69 psi for my 36
Good video. I think there is a fine line between too much and too little sag. Going to far in either direction will not be optimal. It all depends on the terrain and how aggressive you ride. Another important component of this is volume reducers. They will fine-tune your bottom out resistance. Adding or removing volume reducers will require adjustments to your air pressure to reset sag because of the reduction or increase in the air chamber where the reducers sit. I think everyone should learn how to set up their own suspension. It’s to your advantage and is very rewarding.
I'm trying out a Bomber Z1 coil this summer, can't wait to see how it compares
Thanks this is excellent info. I'll watch it a couple time to grasp the idea.
Smile /// Just got into mountain biking and after half a dozen rides was going to start adjusting suspension from the standard settings. Yes i was going to start lower pressure in my forks and shock to cushion ride on trials with smaller roots and rocks. Thank you for this info. I would of just been screwing myself going to wrong direction .
Absolutely, glad to help, Mark! At the end of the day, it's all about what feels best to you, don't don't be afraid to explore around a bit. If you want to takes things a bit further one you get your pressure dialed, check out the follow up video to this one for Rebound and Compression settings. You'll definitely want to make sure you get your rebound setup too if nothing else!
Awesome vid that every biker needs to see :-) It is also the reason why I ride spring f+r at 25% sag (Ohlins on Sworks Enduro), exactly for the reasons explained. Thanks.
Nicely done and I agree. I get my suspension sag set to my personal liking and push my "fun-o-meters" to the max, cause how it feels and performs on a given trail trumps that little O-Ring.
Keeps the "experts" from commenting as well, LOL.
Dead on. That ring is fine for a starting sag point but best pushed to the top and forgotten about after that.
Really good advice! Would just add that rebound setting goes hand in hand with psi. So if you change pressure you should also change rebound accordingly
Thank you sir. I have a cheap Diamondback Lone 27.5" I got for $850 for the winter from performance bicycle before the closed. My Original fork SR suntour XCR got seized because inwas riding it for 4 years and never serviced it, so now I am upgrading do Minatou Markhor 27.5" 9×100mm straight steerer and I am verybglad and thankful that I've watched this video because I learned from it that I pretty much destroyed the original fork by doing exactly what you said, making it looser even though it wasn't air fork it bottomed out on me many times. Thanks you, now This new fork will last me much longer. Owe you 🍺 🍻 🍺
That was an excellent explanation! I never really thought of it that way and will use this information from now on.
Glad it was helpful, Oper8or!
good video! i was running such a low air pressure and turned it up and it felt like a 10,000 dollar bike rather than a 2,700 dollar one. thank you
Great to hear!
I ride a 170 170 bike and run 18% sag in my fork amd 28% in my shock and the bike is an absolute caddie but still pumps and boost so hard. This video is spot on!!!
Learned a lot from this, I was doing exactly what said, going softer to increase suppleness.
I have been battling a slightly firm.Feeling rear shock on my current full suspension mountain bike when setting sag in the standing position. After switching to settings sag in the seated position which resulted in a slightly higher initial pressure at thirty percent sag, the rear end actually felt more supple.Dude who riding a little higher in the stroke. Basically it seems this video holds true for rear shocks as well.
Tnx! Im new to full suspension and any video tutorial is great!
Excellent video, I ride a modern hardtail and I’m pretty lazy with my fork setup… this should help me with setup.
Very good advice! Another tip I've found is that rebound should generally be more open (i.e set to return or spring back) faster for a better ride. When I first started out I was scared to set rebound too fast.
What about on jumps? I’m over 200 lb and I slow ALL my setting down otherwise the suspension is trying to buck me also helps on breaking bumps at high speed and way less arm pump, I ride bike park 90% of the time.
@@andrewrivera4029It’s no different on jumps. If you feel bucked it’s about you weight transfer on the bike as you are launching, you’ve got to get your weight over the rear wheel as you are leaving the lip, just like you are dining a bunny hop. Then, you won’t have problems with feeling bucked. But it takes time to practice and have it dialed in one every kind of jump. Keep active and get the bunny hop dialed in and you will feel the control. Good luck!
This was "shoking" to me. Thank you!!
Subscribed.... some of the best approached videos on the net. What shock pump is that? I still the old school ones
Excellent video. I have never thought of the ramp up of air pressure causing a fork to ride harsh with a lot of sag. I think it is a case of running near the recommended sag. That said, I think forks that have independent air for the positive and negative side of the spring likely have more ability to be tuned to run smoothly with more sag. I have had great luck setting up my CC Helm with more sag but I never the Helm may be better than some of the other forks I've run for this.
Tnx for a helpful video. But I do feel there is more to "suspension" than only the front fork or shock setup. Tier pressure is for me an overlooked point. As well as the carbon vs alloy rims. And not to forget the handlebar and grip choice
Great video, so many people i know think running tons of sag and a bunch of tokens is going to give them a better ride feel.
So grateful for this video. Just changed my perception on pressure for my forks 👍
Glad it was helpful!
This just confirmed my suspicion, thank you for confirming it.
Great video. I was just having the issues you discussed in this video so this came at the perfect time for me. Thank you! .....subbed
Hahaha! Just went for a ride yesterday with a new high-end fork...without making any adjustments! Was so harsh my hands almost flew off the grips. This video came at just the right time and is the most valuable suspension video Ive seen. I agree, without getting Sag right, nothing else will be optimal. Thanks so much!
Finally now i understand the SAG and setup
This is 100% correct, I put more air in my fox shocks and set the sag at around 15% and my bike is a Cadillac now. Roots don’t even feel them now😮
I have the same fork as you. I have a MRP Ramp Control installed and set fully open. Fork was at 80psi for 30% sag. I now have it set to 102 psi for 20% sag. Damper is completely open accept for rebound which is set to 4 out from full slow. My Shock is Super Deluxe RCT3 with one volume spacer. I went from 300psi at 30% sag to 325psi at 27% sag. Damper open accept for rebound which is 5 out from full slow. I weight 280lbs fully geared up. Gonna try this new set up tomorrow. Around the street it felt more efficient and poppy right away.
I hope the changes feel just as great on the trail!
@@SemiSendy It is faster and more efficient everywhere. Much stiffer, and I was getting kicked from the rear shock on medium to large jumps. But I reduced my volume spacers and added a few clicks of rebound and it is way better👊🏻😎
Well done! I always try and approach topics like this from the mindset of someone who hasn't really encountered these ideas before; it's easy to make assumptions about how people think about more complex ideas. You totally hit the nail on the head in terms of clarity and context!
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Thanks, Dan! I've got some good friends in B'ham I hope to visit this season. I'll have to swing by the shop when I make it out there. 🤘😊
@@SemiSendy Please do!
- Dan at Fanatik
When people ask me what my fork’s SIGN is I tell them it’s a SAGitarrius.
As an aging December baby, I understand what it means to put the Sag in Sagittarius.
best video how to set up air pressure in suspension. 100% true. It took me 8 years to realise it. 8 f... years
Better late than never, or so they say! 😉
4:15 This originated from downhill racing, where you only have 1 Track and you ride it several times. Back in the early days bikes had much less travel (even no travel) so everyone tried to use the hole 2 or 3 inches the fork or frame could provide.
Best suspension setup video ever!
Good stuff. I think a summary at the end would be helpful.
How close were you to the recommended pressure on the Rockshox Trailhead App. ? I have a 170mm Zeb and run 7psi less than recommended. About 22% sag. Great video. Love your channel. Cheers
Great stuff. I am too heavy for the correct sag on my rear air shock and I am pretty sure losing weight will make my bike ride better.
As someone who has struggled with some serious weight fluctuations, I know it will help. Always hard to get weight off, but it's always worth it.
Wow I never thought of it this way. This is really interesting. Great insightful video!
Rich! Your voice is like a smooth cup of coffee…☕️ how do you feel about tokens? Currently filming a video about the positive affects a smaller air chamber can have one the small bump compliance as well as added support in the mid-stroke. Keep it up bro🤘🏻
Haha, thanks my man! Tokens are definitely great for dialing things in even further. I look at them as a final layer in my tuning process. I'll have to check out your video once it's live. 🤘😊
So, in a nutshell, my takeaway was to set sag to the smallest amount recommended by the manufacturer and don't adjust pressure no matter what trail you are riding. I very much like things that are set it and forget it. I'm eager to hear the recommendations for rebound and compression.
The biggest point I want to get across is that often times people start by running more sag and when the fork doesn’t feel great, they continue to drop pressure when in fact adding pressure more often the not will make the fork feel much better.
Once you found the setting that’s desirable for you, wherever the percentage feels really smooth and very supportive, then you generally don’t need to adjust pressure from trail to trail. You certainly don’t need to drop pressure on more mild trails just so that you’re using more travel.
Jesus ... that was good. I do exactly that. Fork feels harsh. Very little compression dialled on, so I think, lower that main chamber air pressure more ... what else can it be. I'm going to experiment with this.