there is a power grid of renewable electricity coming from new mexico to cali. tried to pull up a link but nothing on youtube is showing. california is plentiful of water thru the mountain caps but storing it seems to be an issue as it just flows thru the canals. seems like there are several dam projects up central and northern california as welll i see the cali state becoming green and efficient - hang in there man your the first beta testers of renewable energy
Thanks for these videos. WRT the Honda CR-V e:FCEV, I have heard of a couple of people in the Bay area (NorCal) who have picked one up and in SoCal, I received an email from a dealer who said they are expecting shipment in October. WRT True Zero prices, from 2018-2021 I was paying about $16.70. From 5/2021-6/2021 I was paying about $13. Then, due to drop in LCFS credits and increase maintenance costs, they started to raise prices. to the current $36/kg. WRT the future, it's been said that when they change the LCFS rules, the amounts will increase which will allow prices at the pump to decrease.
1:08 IMO the only thing that will get hydrogen prices down is for the economic incentives to change in such a manner as to force them to reduce in price.
The FCEV CR-V was released last month it’s at dealer now and it’s a plug in with the option to run on EV mode for about 20 miles or on hydrogen and EV combine about 300 miles it might make a small impact on hydrogen but I don’t think much but I do think chevron and Exxon producing hydrogen now and companies like Nikola with there HYLA mobile station might prompt some change
Good luck to lease one. I tried it. no cars available. Also, this vehicle has some serious efficiency problems, 17kwh battery and only 30 miles range. Wtf?
Hey Mirai Club. Just want to say thanks for your continued efforts on sharing moments of your life with your Mirai. To answer your question, I also don't think the price of H2 will go down. When I purchased my Mirai back in 2022, I actually believed $17/KG was on the expensive side. And at that time, the 15K fuel card actually made sense because I thought the cost of H2 would eventually go down to at least $12, maybe even less! But paying $36/KG ($180+) each fill up is not financially feasible, especially without a fuel card. This is where I am conflicted. Who is at fault for this? Toyota, H2 companies or the state government? I'll leave that up for debate but currently, in my opinion I blame all of them. It's more of a domino effect. One issue leads to the next, and without any solution to combat it, the issue will continue to grow! I live in San Francisco and there are no longer any H2 stations available, been that way for awhile. Sacramento is another city heavily lacking infrastructure. FCEV's could've been great, but for me and many others im sure, it just doesn't make sense anymore.
Without a serious approach to develop and sustain the infrastructure from all stakeholders involved, I doubt prices will head south. That said, Honda’s FCEV is a plug in with 29 miles of EV range. This should make the fuel card last much longer for those that drive around 30 miles each day most of the time and charge it every night, thus reducing cost per mile.
I am not sure if true, but when Honda released their first FCEV (Clarity) it was a lease only vehicle, and H2 was included for however long you kept it for. Toyota should have followed this approach. The $15K fuel card was nice until H2 prices shot up to $36kg. Makes no financial sense to pay $180+ each fill up, and thats if you have access to a working H2 station..
@@koi_chan26 Didn’t know that about the Clarity’s fuel allowance. The upcoming H2 Honda will be lease only, with a $15k fuel card. I saw an earlier report about a $30k fuel card, but looks like they may have revised that downward if that first report was true. I can see why since plugging in every night would dramatically reduce H2 consumption. I know from experience as a Chevy Volt owner. What’s interesting is Honda co-developed this iteration of the fuel cell stack with GM.
@@koi_chan26 WRT the Clarity, if the lease was extended past the initial three years and you did not use up the $15,000 fuel card, they will let you use what is remaining, but nothing more.
Funny thing is the hydrogen semis are only paying $12-$14kg at the ports. Why this doesn’t transfer over to normal stations would be a good question to ask.
Prices don't transfer because subsidies are different. Light duty vehicles get a $15,000 subsidy from vehicle OEMs. Heavy duty vehicles companies get subsidies from either the state or from agreements with station owners (e.g. Nikola & True Zero/First Element Fuel).
i forsee the future prices to be at around $9 a kilogram of hefstation and once the infrastructure is paid off the prices will be at $7.25 or so $36 is insane prices but like i said your in a beta run
$.58 for me. Based on actual mileage (filled up with 12mi to go, scary), and fuel cost. The prices didn't increase, they jumped from $13 to $36 after initially costing me $11/kg. Prices won't go down because ownership is going to plummet first. Toyota will only win when they lose many lawsuits. And for me, the worst part is the BS fuel credit. With my 2019, at $11 and $13 I would have lost credit at 3 years. With the 2022 at $36, it lasted me 16 months. It's bananas that they didn't adjust the fuel credit to reflect the changing cost. They increased the time knowing well the new models don't get much more luggage than Gen1. AND WHERE ARE THE TOYOTA FUEL STATIONS? Why does TrueZero have a lock on the market? Why did Shell pull out of San Francisco? If Tesla can install super chargers all over the GD world, why hasn't TOYOTA installed a single station in California? Not even at dealerships. My brother is a service manager at a Toyota dealership and they have hydrogen to fuel their cars. So how have they not built stations at dealerships to fuel consumer cars? So many questions that they want to pretend are crazy. And if you are an owner and haven't yet, contact the DMV and ask them what the value of your vehicle is. Mine was much more than the $11k trade in value offered by Toyota.
What a shame and scam. It's a shame because the Mirai is a great car. It's a scam because when I first looked into buying in 2022 the price for H2 was $17/Kg and I foolishly bought without looking again in late 2023. Granted, my error, but I had more faith in Toyota than deserved.
Now i'll agree it is our job to do research and our due dilligence before making any major decisions. That's how it should always be. In the case of Mirai's its a bit different. Lets take gas for example. Sure it has gotten expensive at one point, still is but we aren't really concerned. Prices have been going up everywhere its not a surprise. Hydrogen however has experienced major price increases, truly abnormal to say the least. To start at $11-$13/kg to gradually increasing upwards of $36/kg in the span of a year and a half is shocking. Who could have anticipated and prepared for this? To pair this with the terrible fact that only ~50% of all H2 stations are 'online' in CA at any given moment is not promising. I believe H2 is a scam, and shame on Toyota for continuing to sell these Mirai's that are clearly not ready for the public.
@@JefferyDunham-fi1wy The amount of h2 pumps a station has can really make or break said station. the most I've had are 2, but one pump never seemed to work anyways so kind of pontless. If that one pump goes down thats it, no hydrogen until further notice. It happens time after time like clockwork.
The new Honda FCEV is expected to have an annualised run rate of 300 units, so unlikely to make much of an impact.
there is a power grid of renewable electricity coming from new mexico to cali. tried to pull up a link but nothing on youtube is showing.
california is plentiful of water thru the mountain caps but storing it seems to be an issue as it just flows thru the canals.
seems like there are several dam projects up central and northern california as welll
i see the cali state becoming green and efficient - hang in there man
your the first beta testers of renewable energy
Thanks for these videos. WRT the Honda CR-V e:FCEV, I have heard of a couple of people in the Bay area (NorCal) who have picked one up and in SoCal, I received an email from a dealer who said they are expecting shipment in October. WRT True Zero prices, from 2018-2021 I was paying about $16.70. From 5/2021-6/2021 I was paying about $13. Then, due to drop in LCFS credits and increase maintenance costs, they started to raise prices. to the current $36/kg. WRT the future, it's been said that when they change the LCFS rules, the amounts will increase which will allow prices at the pump to decrease.
1:08 IMO the only thing that will get hydrogen prices down is for the economic incentives to change in such a manner as to force them to reduce in price.
The FCEV CR-V was released last month it’s at dealer now and it’s a plug in with the option to run on EV mode for about 20 miles or on hydrogen and EV combine about 300 miles it might make a small impact on hydrogen but I don’t think much but I do think chevron and Exxon producing hydrogen now and companies like Nikola with there HYLA mobile station might prompt some change
They are only hand building a small number of cars over the next year.
Good luck to lease one. I tried it. no cars available. Also, this vehicle has some serious efficiency problems, 17kwh battery and only 30 miles range. Wtf?
Hey Mirai Club. Just want to say thanks for your continued efforts on sharing moments of your life with your Mirai. To answer your question, I also don't think the price of H2 will go down. When I purchased my Mirai back in 2022, I actually believed $17/KG was on the expensive side. And at that time, the 15K fuel card actually made sense because I thought the cost of H2 would eventually go down to at least $12, maybe even less! But paying $36/KG ($180+) each fill up is not financially feasible, especially without a fuel card.
This is where I am conflicted. Who is at fault for this? Toyota, H2 companies or the state government? I'll leave that up for debate but currently, in my opinion I blame all of them. It's more of a domino effect. One issue leads to the next, and without any solution to combat it, the issue will continue to grow!
I live in San Francisco and there are no longer any H2 stations available, been that way for awhile. Sacramento is another city heavily lacking infrastructure. FCEV's could've been great, but for me and many others im sure, it just doesn't make sense anymore.
Sounds like you have good basis for a class action lawsuit.
really hoping it gets better outside of California too
Can't get better outside of CA if it hasn't even got better in CA
Without a serious approach to develop and sustain the infrastructure from all stakeholders involved, I doubt prices will head south. That said, Honda’s FCEV is a plug in with 29 miles of EV range. This should make the fuel card last much longer for those that drive around 30 miles each day most of the time and charge it every night, thus reducing cost per mile.
I am not sure if true, but when Honda released their first FCEV (Clarity) it was a lease only vehicle, and H2 was included for however long you kept it for. Toyota should have followed this approach. The $15K fuel card was nice until H2 prices shot up to $36kg. Makes no financial sense to pay $180+ each fill up, and thats if you have access to a working H2 station..
@@koi_chan26 Didn’t know that about the Clarity’s fuel allowance.
The upcoming H2 Honda will be lease only, with a $15k fuel card. I saw an earlier report about a $30k fuel card, but looks like they may have revised that downward if that first report was true. I can see why since plugging in every night would dramatically reduce H2 consumption. I know from experience as a Chevy Volt owner.
What’s interesting is Honda co-developed this iteration of the fuel cell stack with GM.
@@koi_chan26 WRT the Clarity, if the lease was extended past the initial three years and you did not use up the $15,000 fuel card, they will let you use what is remaining, but nothing more.
Funny thing is the hydrogen semis are only paying $12-$14kg at the ports. Why this doesn’t transfer over to normal stations would be a good question to ask.
I've seen H2 prices for semis as low as $5kg. Passenger vehicles are getting screwed over big time!
Prices don't transfer because subsidies are different. Light duty vehicles get a $15,000 subsidy from vehicle OEMs. Heavy duty vehicles companies get subsidies from either the state or from agreements with station owners (e.g. Nikola & True Zero/First Element Fuel).
i forsee the future prices to be at around $9 a kilogram of hefstation and once the infrastructure is paid off the prices will be at $7.25 or so
$36 is insane prices but like i said your in a beta run
Have you seen the new Hyundai Hydrogen car?
$.58 for me. Based on actual mileage (filled up with 12mi to go, scary), and fuel cost.
The prices didn't increase, they jumped from $13 to $36 after initially costing me $11/kg. Prices won't go down because ownership is going to plummet first. Toyota will only win when they lose many lawsuits. And for me, the worst part is the BS fuel credit. With my 2019, at $11 and $13 I would have lost credit at 3 years. With the 2022 at $36, it lasted me 16 months. It's bananas that they didn't adjust the fuel credit to reflect the changing cost. They increased the time knowing well the new models don't get much more luggage than Gen1. AND WHERE ARE THE TOYOTA FUEL STATIONS? Why does TrueZero have a lock on the market? Why did Shell pull out of San Francisco? If Tesla can install super chargers all over the GD world, why hasn't TOYOTA installed a single station in California? Not even at dealerships. My brother is a service manager at a Toyota dealership and they have hydrogen to fuel their cars. So how have they not built stations at dealerships to fuel consumer cars?
So many questions that they want to pretend are crazy. And if you are an owner and haven't yet, contact the DMV and ask them what the value of your vehicle is. Mine was much more than the $11k trade in value offered by Toyota.
What a shame and scam. It's a shame because the Mirai is a great car. It's a scam because when I first looked into buying in 2022 the price for H2 was $17/Kg and I foolishly bought without looking again in late 2023. Granted, my error, but I had more faith in Toyota than deserved.
Now i'll agree it is our job to do research and our due dilligence before making any major decisions. That's how it should always be. In the case of Mirai's its a bit different. Lets take gas for example. Sure it has gotten expensive at one point, still is but we aren't really concerned. Prices have been going up everywhere its not a surprise.
Hydrogen however has experienced major price increases, truly abnormal to say the least. To start at $11-$13/kg to gradually increasing upwards of $36/kg in the span of a year and a half is shocking. Who could have anticipated and prepared for this? To pair this with the terrible fact that only ~50% of all H2 stations are 'online' in CA at any given moment is not promising.
I believe H2 is a scam, and shame on Toyota for continuing to sell these Mirai's that are clearly not ready for the public.
@@koi_chan26 I filled up at the UCI station two days ago and, when I left, there were seven cars in line for one pump.
@@JefferyDunham-fi1wy The amount of h2 pumps a station has can really make or break said station. the most I've had are 2, but one pump never seemed to work anyways so kind of pontless. If that one pump goes down thats it, no hydrogen until further notice. It happens time after time like clockwork.
WORST CAR EVER
agreed - getting an electric car soon. this waiting in line to be gouged is insane.
At least you have a H2 station in your city. Shell abandoned SF but some Toyota dealerships in SF are still selling this POS.