$15,000 Free Fuel For A $20,000 Used Toyota Mirai? Here's What's Going On
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- The Toyota Mirai has been on sale in the U.S. since late 2015, with the majority of cars leased by customers in the San Francisco Bay and Los Angeles areas.
But now we're starting to see some of those early leased Mirais come up on the used car market as lease-return vehicles, complete with certified pre-owned inspections in some cases -- and $15,000 of free fuel.
So what's going on? Are these once expensive hydrogen fuel cell cars a good deal? Or is there something else you should know?
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My coworker just bought a 2017 Mirai with less than 30k miles for $13k and it came with a $15k fuel card. He lives right near a working fueling station so it works out for him. He still kept his scion tc for long distance trips. The cost of hydrogen fuel has also gone down since 2019 and one of the world's largest hydrogen facilities is being built in Lancaster California, it will be up and running in 2023. I'm excited for the future of green vehicles.
I was very interested in fuel cell cars back in the 90s, about the time of the Ballard, Ford, Daimler partnership. By the 21st century I'd given up all hope on fuel cells and BEV have improved so much that I can't see a probable scenario were fuel cell would ever interest me again.
Look at the Nexo.. Look at the new toyota. Electric is just headache used. Charging is becoming annoying and the batteries need to be change. Also if your in hot temperatures like 90 degree the battery doesn't work great. No great efficiency
@@Menga213 I have a mirai and had a bolt, I miss the bolt.
We used to have six hydrogen fueling stations in Norway. Four closed down. One burnt down. Now the closest to me is “only” 510km away in Bergen.
No wonder why no one buys them!
Compared:
44% of ALL new cars sales in Norway 2019 is BEV. (+35% is hybrid/ PHEV.)
A hydrogen car would make more sense in our cold climate but it doesn’t. We would much rather prefer charging our cars every night at home without being worried if we will get fuel or not.
Well you guys over there need heat radiated from fossil fuels over.
Having 20K to spare and a place to keep it I would buy one as a collectors item. In twenty years it will be such a historical curiosity that will make it very valuable.
I would only buy one with the express intent to donate it to the *Petersen Automotive Museum,* _"a place to store it"._ Where it could be parked directly next to the *Sebring-Vanguard Citi-Car,* a battery electric car from the mid-1970s. If I were loaded enough, I'd give one to *Jay Leno* as well for his collection.
redxsage jay leno may have one or 7 already :)
@@simoc24 -- Good point. Indeed.
You wouldn't be able to drive it anymore, though! The high-pressure hydrogen tanks have an expiration date around 2030, depending on the time of production. At that point, the computer won't let you fill it up anymore, and it will be nothing but a lawn ornament.
You should do the math before thinking about collecting. Failed tech that offer nothing of value to the end user compared to any existing gasoline car is not going to be worth all that much (see old "crap car" value). All the storage and up-keep (10,000 PSI will need lots of maintenance as fittings age) will cost you more than the car will ever be worth.
Remember 7 years ago when Tesla S was coming out? People said the same things like "there is nowhere to charge them". Now it's normal to use it daily
Just bought a used one last week. In generally I think it is a good deal, here is the pros and cons of a used Mirai.
Pros:
1. Cheap price. I got 2016 Mirai with 16k miles, which is pretty low miles as a 4 years old car, and pre-owned certified with 15k free fuel which will expire after 2 year 10 months. The same as this video mentioned.
2. Good feature and some luxury feeling. I am happy with paying a total of 16k USD and drive a nearly new 60k USD level car even if no free fuel was included.
3. Unique driving experience. The driving experience of fuel cell car is different from a traditional gasoline car nor a pure electric car. It is more like a mix of those two types. Like a quiet gasoline car or a slower reaction to accelerate electric car. Very fun to drive.
4. Unique attraction and feeling. Unique style, feeling of the future, getting lots of attention from friends and others is so great and I really like it.
Cons:
1. Expensive service, I have no idea about the service yet. My Mirai is pre-owned certified with low mileage so I think it will should be in the first a few years.
2. Reduced range. This is a big one. Mirai is supposed to have 312 miles with full fuel. However, after I fully filled hydrogen, the dashboard screen said the range is 232 miles, around 25% reduced. Then I made a test, I drove 40 miles on highway with average speed of 70 mph, after that, the dashboard screen said 198 miles left. So I drove 40 miles and the estimated range dropped 34. I think the actual range will be about 270 miles by doing the math. This number may be wrong. I need more time to figure out its actual range, but apparently the range is no longer 312 as a used car. If anyone knows the reason or how to fix the range problem, let me know and thank you so much.
3. Sometimes inconvenient to refuel. I need to check the app to make sure the fuel station still has enough hydrogen. Some extra effort.
4. Resale value. I can't predict the future value of a mirai. What I feel is that this car is current sold around 15k USD with 15 free hydrogen. After 3 years when the free fuel is gone, I may have to sell it. Assume that time, 2023 for instance, a 2016 Mirai with 45k miles no free hydrogen. How much it worth? No idea at all, but I guess it will be very low considering the dropping range. I will be happy to sell this car at 7k USD at that time. If so I literally lost 9k. In other words, this car depreciated 9k value in 3 years. It seems that it is a big depreciation. This is a big concern for me. Anyway, at least now I enjoy the free fuel and nearly-new 60k level somewhat luxury car.
If any other Mirai drivers have some ideas, please let me know and we can share our experiences. Thank you!
Just bought a 2017 with 25k miles for 16k, zero percent financing, 15k free fuel. I'm using it for commuting to work about 50 miles each way to Los Angeles. Im thinking the same as you, or keep it as second vehicle after the free fuel runs out, driving it occasionally.
Has a 100k warranty as well. So far Its working out, hopefully more stations will open. I love driving it.
@@frederickh4942 You are in a much better situation than me. If you drive 100 miles every weekday for commute, let's do the math, 100 miles per weekday, 5 days per week, 52 weeks per year, so you will drive 26k miles purely for commute, excluding weekend driving and other uses. Based on my experience, it is approximately 3 miles per dollar for my Mirai, so assume you drive 35k miles per year in total, you can fully utilize the 15k free hydrogen in a year and half, which is great, you claimed all the 15k money. Congrats. I work from home since the pandemic and only drive 200 miles per month, literally wasting the 15k free fuels because it will expire in 2 years. Even if when the pandemic is gone, I drive at most 20 miles per weekday, so for me, I will probably waste most of the 15k free fuels.
@@waterspinach3145 I am considering buying one now, how has your experience been so far with it for the past 1 year? Any update would be appreciated!
@@gitanjalisuresh8391 I have sold this car due to unexpected job change. I really want to keep driving it. The experience is great. Those pre-own-certified Mirai is very reliable, never have any issue in the past 12 months. I enjoy the pros of quiet driving, powerful torque at low speed from electric car, as well as the pros of pretty fast fuel filling from gas car. If I have to be picky, I would say this car has the following issue:
1. You need to make sure there are hydrogen gas stations near you, and you need to check the status of the station right before you go there because sometimes the station will run out of hydrogen or there are other people filling so you have to wait for a few min.
2. Not as powerful as other electric car if you want a strong acceleration in high-way.
3. At the end of the free hydrogen period, this car will cost you a lot on hydrogen if you drive a lot because the price of hydrogen is still high.
If there were hydorgen station near my current city, I will buy Mirai again, no doubt.
@@waterspinach3145 Appreciate your quick response! This definitely gives me a overview of it's usage. If you don't mind, may I ask at what price did you sell it, like was the depreciation as much as you thought a year back?
Too bad I don’t live in California :( this is like BlueRay vs HD DVD a decade back. What scare me is that the whole hydrogen refueling network will go away in a year or 2, since batteries are winning all the way. The last battle is in the semi world. If batteries win that one too, all the hydrogen station will goes away like HD DVD :) Great video, thanks
The Real c too haha, that is funny :) bad example I suppose. If I do VHS vs. BataMax, better??
Well, in order to feed and comfort everyone on the planet we either have to buy some additional planet or raise the level of efficiency for our day to day lifestyle. The problem with hydrogen is efficiency. You could possibly use regenerative power to fuel hydrogen production but if you look at the well to wheel effectiveness you directly see the problem. I can only encourage you to have a look into this comparison, since I don‘t have any valid numbers at hand. Efficiency is everything if you don‘t want anybody come around and tell you what you should not do anymore 😉. By the way, by raising efficiency everybody can safe money 💵.
Smart Alien I am not buying a hydrogen car, just joking that I don’t live in Southern California :) and I know the difference in efficiency. it will be crazy for anyone to buy a hydrogen car unless she own a hydrogen plant anyway :) who knows how long all the hydrogen refueling stations will stay open, since they are losing money everyday!
@@simoc24 It's not like VHS vs Beta. Mirai offers nothing of value to the end user compared to Prius or Corolla while the fuel costs 5 times more than existing gasoline. It's like comparing streaming at home in 4K (EV charges at home) vs going to a theater (fuel station) and pay to watch small screen television.
It is 2022 and more Hydrogen stations have been built. It is looking a lot better than 3 years ago! : )
I live on the San Francisco peninsula, 12 miles from the SF airport going towards SF and 12 miles from Palo Alto going the other way there are about 10 hydrogen fueling stations within 20 miles of my house according to the California Fuel Cell Partnership web site. Out of those 10 stations one is currently operational.
Phil Moore wow, good to know
And I thought that SoCal hydrogen supply was bad.
Most stations have been offline since early June. An explosion in a hydrogen depot has disrupted supplies
@@jimmurphy5355 hope few were open before that
Also, how does that help owners?
I can change an EV from any outlet anywhere
@@StephenMatrese If you drive a fuel cell vehicle in the SF Bay area, your options for filling up have been very, very limited for over two months. And of course, that does not help H2 fueled vehicle owners at all. My point was to emphasize how extended the shortage has been. The only station in Marin has been offline for 10 weeks now.
2019 Mirai... listed for 18k(PreCert) and Toyota dealer at Redwood city is offering 15k fuelling card along with it as well... One of my friends is in the market for the used card and seriously considering going with this offer. Also, it comes with 100k and 5years of warranty...
I have one month left on my Mirai lease. It is a great car and I have loved it.... except for the challenges refueling. Since I was the 800th (or so) car purchase in California and I had a station 1.6 miles from my house it was not bad at first. Then..... there stated to be more and more cars filling up and the station kept running out of fuel. There were also upgrades and maintenance and upgrades to the system. Fast forward to last night. The hydrogen truck was 3 hours later than I was told. When I got there there were 5 cars in front of me. 45 min later I was filled up and there were 9 cars behind me. I talked to another owner and he got up at 3:30 am to fill up the other day. I am happy to be part of the experiment but VERY happy it is over. I was thinking of buying another Toyota but since I keep seeing advertisements for the Mirai all I can think is they are lying to the future owners and I do not feel like I want to give them my business.
Daniel. We’d love to talk to you more about this. Would you be interested? Nikki .
Sent you a Linked in message.... not sure how else to contact you directly.
Doing quite a bit of work at Toyota HQ in Australia at the moment. They have theirs sitting in the lot as they can't fuel it in Australia without serious difficulty hahaha
Sorry you work for a short-sighted company like that. Hope you cut and run before it's too late.
@@ObsidianGT Largest in the world. i think they will be alright lol
@@onoff314 Yeah, okay. I'm rolling my eyes and thinking of:
Kodak, Polaroid, Blockbuster, Pan Am, Circuit City, (plus many others) and the clincher:
The failure of General Motors (GM) in 2007 (just before the Great Recession) that found itself at the doorstep of the largest bankruptcy in American history by failing to innovate, ignoring competition, releasing unreliable products, and company leaders largely caring only about profit. The current company, GMC, was formed in 2009 and bought out the majority of the old company's assets. Let's not even go into NUMMI, the failed innovation partnership between GM and Toyota.
These companies are just successful enough to be allowed to be dumb, but that window is expiring quickly due to their inaction on the EV disruption.
Here's an example of a not too stupid company: Intuit, developers of largest and most common desktop accounting software, QuickBooks. They realized the coming dominance of cloud-based SaaS and became their own disruptors by redirecting their resources to their new QuickBooks Online platform.
Toyota ignoring BEV and going head-first into hydrogen may very well lead to a humongous fall or even total failure.
You must see the bigger picture.
Hydrogen cars is a big fail. Probably not even suitable for trucks once battery becomes mainstream.
That's why Nikola Motor last two designs are BEV
Actually makes perfect sense for truck/busses and shipping companies. You'll know exactly where the truck needs to go and make sure it can do at least the longest stretch on one tank and have a refuiling station at either end. No lengthy charge and you'd still get quiet but powerful electric motors.
Where the hydrogen comes from is a minor detail and will be up to the wallets/eco friendliness of respective companies.
Let's see what happens when there's overproduction of renewable energy and hydrogen is the perfect place to dump the power. Things could change.
@@Apjooz The interesting situation is that although H2 technology is available, GE just recently ditched a 750MW gas power station and replaced it with a large battery. The gas plant had to go because it was not competitive and H2 may not come for the same reason.
@@allmybasketsinoneegg hydrogen still costs more than BEV
Update: there are now used Mirais (with low miles and in perfect shape!) for under $10k
I see one for that price and comes with a $15k card. Worth it?
According to Toyota the Murai has a 5kg hydrogen fuel tank and if hydrogen sells for $13/kg it would cost $65 to fill or $80 to fill it at $16/kg.
You mentioned that it only costs $28 to fill the tank, so what am I missing here?
maybe she meant 28 Sterling pounds?
Mirai owner here… Prices recently went up at my local station from 16.99 to 17.69….
I too would like to know where to fill for $28…
Other Hydrogen Secrets that the industry does not want you to know about:
1) Clean hydrogen from electrolysis at twice the cost of gasoline, is unaffordable
2) Clean hydrogen uses more than three times as much electricity to produce (60 kWh per kg or 100 km) than the electricity needed to propel a BEV the same distance.
3) Only 2 or 3 hydrogen vehicles can be fueled in succession without a long pause (10 minutes plus) to restore tank pressure to 700 bar and re chill the gas otherwise the next hydrogen vehicle gets half a tank (range) or less. (Hydrogen like neon and helium heats when it expands)
4) A typical 100 kg hydrogen dispensing station can only fuel 18 FCEVs per DAY!
5) Hydrogen is delivered in 100 kg transporters. It would take 33 hydrogen transport deliveries per day to fuel the equivalent number of vehicles (600) that are fueled at a gas station
6) The cost of an electrolysis hydrogen production plant has a negative rate of return (CARB 2016 Joint Report Page F-5). $2.9 million USD for a 130 kg/day plant to produce enough fuel for only 24 FCEVs.
*_"These MIRAI seem to be on fire sale for a VERY GOOD REASON..." -- Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield_*
Sure. _They SUCK!_
They will sell them for what they can get and then the infrastructure will be neglected. 'Free fuel' cards will be worthless if there is nowhere to refuel.
@@FFVoyager Toyota still thinks they're the future. They are the biggest. They will fall the hardest.
@@FFVoyager -- Worthless? No. $200,000,000 in California tax dollars wasted from 2013-through-2023 to build Hydrogen Fuel infrastructure will make sure it isn't exactly _'worthless'_ to have a _'free fuel'_ card for a Hydrogen Fuel Cell car there. Just... sorely ill-advised.
Thing is...? All of the companies participating in the *_California Fuel Cell Partnership'_* initiative are of the long established, frequently profitable, billions of bucks on the balance sheet type. So, why exactly do they need the Great State of California to foot the bill for the Fuel Cell Infrastructure they all claim is... _'The FUTURE!'_ of transportation?
Methinks it is likely due to potential liability issues and stuff. Though I could be wrong. The State can grant itself exemptions to hazardous materials bans and whatnot.
I'm in Orange County and considering on buying one strictly as a commuter vehicle. The infrastructure seems pretty good in southern California. They are around $10K now for a 2017. My employer will pay for "gas"
Toyota do not make many mistakes but the Mirai was a massive one. Be very interesting to see what Toyotas first foray into EVs will be. I think we all know hydrogen powered vehicles will go the same way as Beta-Max for those of you old enough to remember.
Absolutely. I have a mirai.. and can’t even get tires from non- “specialized” toyota dealerships… that’s just the latest nail on the mirai coffin.
Fuel cells are doomed because of infrastructure. By the time a hydrogen refueling infrastructure is built, battery charge times will be (nearly) as fast. There goes hydrogen's only advantage.
It's expensive to produce because of inefficient energy conversion. It's expensive to distribute because it has to be trucked to fueling stations. And the fueling stations themselves are much more expensive than EV chargers.
And, the one nobody mentions, it will require as many hydrogen fueling stations as there are gas stations today. There will never need to be as many commercial EV chargers as gas stations because EV owners usually charge at home.
not only because of infrastructure... it's also just a bad idea for cars, from an engineering point of view.
Basically you build a BEV, and then add complexity to get less overall efficiency.
It is already there :) I have friends complaining that EV is charging too fast, start paying idle fee before the meal is done, have to run out to move the car before dessert
@@stephanweinberger good point. Part of the beauty of EVs is simplicity.
@@simoc24hopefully self driving and the snake charger will get here soon so cars can disconnect and move to a non charging spot automatically.
Brett Cooper. Industrial chemistry or engineering degree in the wall Brett? There is no indication that charging times will get significantly faster and certainly not three minutes for 75kw. Just spin and wishes from computer people comparing apples and oranges.
Lithium batteries are not new, and the chemistry is still the same as it always was. Faster charging has only come by having higher voltage and amperage grid chargers. A car still takes half a day on the 120VAC/15AMP default home charger you get with the car. A few hours on a dryer plug or dedicated 240 home charger. 45minutes to full or 30min to 80% on a supercharger. Longer on a generic public charger. Charging too fast kills them with heat. Cooling can only do so much to mitigate that. Battery coolers also add mechanical complexity and cost to the simple EV. The T3 is becoming more and more mechanically complicated...thus more likely to have defects.
A Detroit Electric or Baker 100 years ago could charge at home in 4 hours and drive at top speed for four hours. A modern EV can charge at home in four hours and run at 75mph for about four hours. Sure more kWh in the battery, but it takes more to satisfy modern demands.
Batteries are short term stopgaps in big scale engineering almost every time they are lauded as "the future". Ask a nuclear submariner.
Oh I liked Dan Blocker too. Nice guy.
I'm a califronia resident and bought used Miray yesterday. The full price with taxes is 14000$. After I got prepaid hydrogen up to 3 years/15000 $ it looks like a very smart deal. Isn't it?
Why didn't you buy an EV?
If you use the card up and commute a lot then yes it's a good deal. So the math on that.
I wish toyota just cut the umbilical cord from the oil cartel and go electric.
tech sheep Yea, to me it looks like they want to give gas ⛽️ stations a new future. I wonder why gas station owners not just exchange their fueling stations with super chargers for anyone and convert their shop business into a bier garden/café kind of place. I mean they already sell all kinds of groceries. I am no starbucks fan at all but still the starbucks concept combined with super charging could be way to go.
You do know that fuel cell cars are electric cars and they only run electrical power
@@reedciman they even have batteries
I'm not sure if this had to do with oil cartel. They wouldn't be so stupid as to price H to be 5 times that of gasoline. Had they priced it competitive (ie, $1/kg like the hype) while taking huge losses, then it could've been the cartel.
I think the pressure on them comes from job lost at home when they go all EV.
What I find odd with the hydrogen stations in SoCal is that there are quite a few that have fuel, but they are Offline even though the stations are open 24/7. How can so many new hydrogen stations be broken and offline?
As Nikki said in her video, the distribution centre caught fire and there was a resulting wide shortage of hydrogen throughout the local stations.. I also heard that Norway shut down all their hydrogen refueling stations when one of them burnt to the ground for an as yet undisclosed problem 😗
I have a mirai.. hydrogen stations are very unreliable. There are 6 “near” me in LA.. and always go to same one- the other 5 always have some sort of issue. No idea why either
@@MrOscar5690 If given the choice would you get an electric or hybrid vehicle?
@@savingdollarz
I’ve actually had an ev ( Chevy Bolt. It was a long term term rental 3-4 months and and I put nearly 10,000 miles) and I just sold my Camry hybrid.
Good experience with both.
To answer your question. It depends.
Used EV like a bolt or used hybrid, probably EV.
New EV or new hybrid probably hybrid.
The reason is price.
When Used they are similar in price.
New EV have a big price premium. Even though it’s cheaper to run. When comparing a $28k hybrid rav4 vs the new bZ4X there’s a $14,000 difference. Even at todays gas prices, $14k buys ALOT of fuel. I had done the math some time back.. you need to drive about a million miles to spend that much on gas
By the time you drive a million miles EVs will be come down in price, and that’s when I would say buy EV.
I'd call consider using it for Lyft or Uber till the free charge card runs out. Then I'd stuff it in some barn somewhere and sell it to a museum in 30 years.
Lol
That is funny :) I know you are joking so this point is mute. But it is terrible to run an Uber if you have to go back to the same station 2 or 3 times a day, terribly inefficient of time. With an EV you can fast charge in many parts of the same city, not hydrogen. I know you are joking but just in case someone read what you said and thought that is actually a great idea...
@@simoc24 it's actually harder than you think to burn through an entire tank in a day of city driving. I use to deliver pizzas and in my busiest 8 hour shift of constant deliveries, I would go through less than half a tank. Uber would definitely drive more in 8 hours than pizza delivery but not more twice as far. Hydrogen still sucks for other reasons.
It's actually not a bad idea if you live in the right area, have the cash/credit to buy a $20,000 car, and don't have a job where you can make more money doing something else. I'm 0 for 3 but somebody should do this.
You can't Uber/Lyft. Mirai is 4 seater and they don't allow 4 seaters. Also, I doubt anyone would want old car that require custom 10,000 PSI tank and fittings that's all rotted; would be cheaper just to make new car.
I’m thinking of getting one. Essentially it’s $5,000 to buy. 20K-15K free fuel.
Watching this October 2022, funny thing is that gas is currently $5 to $6 per gallon, so the "high price" of hydrogen, is about the same. There's a few for sale from $12K to $14K that I want to buy. I am concerned if it burns down tho, because maybe 2 more will be made in San Diego county where I reside.
I'm in Orange County and considering on buying one strictly as a commuter vehicle. They are around $10K now for a 2017. My employer will pay for "gas"
Also, I see LOTS of Mirais parked in front of apartment complexes. It's a better option emissions-wise than gas for people who can't charge at home.
Great material, Thanks..
...I'd be tempted to rip the fuel cell out of it, and convert it to BEV :)
I wonder how hard that is to do. Since the fuel cell already charges a battery you just have to match the voltage and extend it.
Ouch, I just went to the Wiki page, first it has a 245 volt 1.6 kWh battery, so it would be easy to extend that, but it get mpg-e of 68 vs the Tesla 134, so Tesla cars get twice the range from batteries, this suggests if the batteries are not cheap to get that it is not worthwhile converting it.
@@earlpottinger671, batteries are more efficient at storing and releasing energy than a hydrogen fuel cell is in producing energy. So, if a Mirai was converted, it would get a big improvement in efficiency, more like a Tesla.
The Mirai's batteries are Ni-MH though, so if you want the higher density of Li-Ion you'd also have to change the charge controller.
But other than that, ripping out the fuel cell, tanks and plumbing should give you enough space for batteries to have at least comparable range.
I bet you would get enough from the precious metals in the fuel cell to buy a decent battery.
I just looked at UK registrations a little earlier on. 22 Mirais were registered in Q1 2019 [latest data] taking it to a total of... wait for it... 102. Hyundai Nexo - just a single one has been registered, that was is in Q1. Going well, eh? I have seen 2 Mirais parked up while out and about, rare enough to take a photo. :)
You better have parking outside if you buy one. Sure EVs can spontaneously burn, and ICEs can leak some fuel if something is broken, but H2 tends to explode when you turn on the lights of your garage.
Hydrogen fuel isn't contentious, it's impractical.
We don't us hydrogen in daily life like we do electricity so the technology that can use an existing energy source wins.
We can create this energy directly from sunlight, no need to crack natural gas in an energy intensive process to make the stuff.
I was looking yesterday and they were so cheap! Thinking of getting one soon!
I'd buy one, use up the fuel allowance, and then convert it to fully electric or series hybrid.
Technically, it already is a series hybrid, the fuel cell supplies a fairly constant amount of electric power, while a 1.4 kwh battery (similar to a Prius hybrid battery) supplies extra electric power for acceleration, and stores excess energy and regenerative braking energy. Removal of the hydrogen tanks and fuel cell should give enough space for a battery pack big enough for a decent range, and the motor is certainly powerful enough. The most difficult part would be re-engineering the control systems.
@@chrismuir8403 True, it's really a series hybrid.
To convert it, it may be better to just spoof the sensor signals and connect the power source directly to the terminals that are connected to the fuel cell, and then "magically" change the readings for tank pressure to full every time the car is turned off.
Thank you for this video, very informative and the exact information I was looking for.
Bought a cheap one used and loved it, but the fact that my fuel costs for hydrogen went up 4 to 5 times vs regular gas in my Honda Fit was a deal breaker, so I returned the car by the cooling off period of three days.
You must have been high. Glad you sobered up within the return window. 😂
How much was your “cheap one” I got one last year for 10k
@@MrOscar5690
In your opinion is getting one for 10K and getting 15K fuel credit worth buying? Including all the hassle of refueling? I live in Sacramento with a hydrogen station 2 miles from me.
@@rxonmymind8362
Absolutely not worth it.
Idk what the price at the station 2 miles from you is at, but in LA.. it’s $31/kg nearly 3x the cheapest price of 2 years ago. Prices were expected to drop and haven’t.
At $31/kg $15,000 only buys you like 25,000 miles .. less if price keeps going up. To make matters worse; a few stations have announced that prices will temporarily rise to 34/kg..
I could park it right next to my Hindenburg....
@@ronaldgarrison8478 Hara-kiri !!!!!!!!!!
In the UK there are 4000 or so plug in street chargers, and about 6 hydrogen filling points in the entire country and they are centred in London.... and Scotland. So these hydrogen cars may end up having very limited range... no more than 150 miles from a fuelling station. That is range anxiety.
There was a hydrogen filling point in Loughborough (on my walk into work) but that seems to have disappeared.
You pointed out the biggest flaw in HFC cars, lack of infrastructure. What good is a vehicle you can't refuel? The infrastructure has to be so vast (over 20,000 stations) and built so rapidly (less than 5 years) no one is going to invest the billions of dollars for only 1 or 2 models of cars.
for apartments with street parking and a lack of charging ports, hydrogen makes sense. especially in LA and SF with multiple stations
Hydrogen is a very cumbersome solution for a simple problem as shortage of public chargers.
Solid state batteries will be the game changer soon.
Ouch! Hydrogen fuel and "Fire Sale" in the same piece? Harsh burn! :)
We should all switch to electric vehicles charged from our home, business and covered parking rooftop solar arrays making nearly everything we do 100% solar powered.
I've never trusted hydrogen cars. It's not that the idea if one was cracking water like I did in the 6th grade for a science fair was used. It's when it and electric cars were proposed back in the late 70's & 80's (under Jimmy carter's presidency) it was who was saying hydrogen is the future that bothered me. The add campaigns were from big oil and folks supported by big oil. Then the . .Zar of o emission's cars in California, who on the surface seemed to support the adoption of ev's. Charging stations were being installed around the state. I was hopeful. Then his last act as Zar was to lift the requirement of O emission cars and left his state job and was put on a private board of directors for the adoption of hydrogen vehicles. (Fat salary) Then electric cars that were only available on a lease were all gathered up and most were ground up into little pieces charging stations disappeared overnight & that put the adoption of Ev's back till now. Never trusted hydrogen and those who supported it's adoption since.
Toyota FAILED big time by not investing electric cars.
Just to make it clear when buying a pre-certified car or CPO car it is classed a used car, you will not get any lemon laws protection or anything like that when buying these type of cars - QED a CPO or pre-certified car is just a fancy word for second hand - they could have clean carfax etc because the way it leased any repairs/crashes/other issues can be hidden from carfax so if you like one make sure you have it inspected first. ~ this advice is via two other youtube channels - one a lawyer that specialises in Lemon law/car buying law and the other is a mechanic
A confirmation video about CPO cars and how things get missed and left broken etc and how it mostly hype and marketing ~ th-cam.com/video/7va9jQKGWsQ/w-d-xo.html
Mini can drivers are probably the best people to buy these. That fuel card probably has an expiry date, say its 2 years you've got to spend 7.5k a year to use it up. Plus they then have a Zero Emissions vehicle for areas where petrol/diesel isn't allowed I.e. some city centres
If everyone had a Electric car there would be massive black outs through out the city. Charging to the grid will not work in the long run. You can't put too much load a electrical outlet simple physics.
nice
So today, it's between $30 and $36/kg which gets you 65 miles. A comparable car, the Toyota Camry hybrid gets 50 MPG. Both the Camry and the Mirai are hybrids and actually use the same hybrid battery. So it's like paying (50 x $36)/65 or $27.69/gal of gasoline. A friend of mine drives his Bolt EV for uber/Lyft and has 238,000 miles on it. If he were driving a Mirai that would have cost 238,000/65mi/kg = 3,662kg x $36 = $131,800 worth of fuel. Oh, it comes with $15k fuel card, so $131,800 - $15,000 = $116,800 worth of fuel.
Tell this a person , who says: „EV‘s are just a short trend , hydrogen is the future.“
Give you the car for cheep, fuel for free and get your business in maintenance.
Where would you fuel up? Many of the stations went offline (at least in nor-cal) after the fire and drop in supply, and talking with the station owners, they're not willing to spend the money to turn them back on again. Looks like they're going to trash the stations soon.
Even if Toyota gives the car for free, I'm not interested, it not good for the planet compared to an EV.
Lots of numbers in this video - perhaps putting some of them onscreen would be helpful to aid the viewer in following them?
Let’s see what the future hold for the hydrogen fuel price. If it goes below $5 a kilo then it’s a good keep
I’d go for that if I owned a bomb disposal suit! However the mathematics for fuelling with Hydrogen ordinarily (without this hard to believe subsidy) make the whole point of buying/leasing and running a fuel cell car completely nonsensical from a financial point of view.
Hydrogen is not worth it. Also it still makes more pollution than electric.
Drastically, so much so that one way - coal gasification - I've now heard called just "gassification". Perhaps because at that point you *really are* running your car on coal?
Toyota want this car to be the poster child of the 2020 Olympics. My guess is we'll get an announcement a short time after tell us the car is going cease production. My guess would be 2022.
if you don't live in a cave BEV is the most efficient & money saving.
What's the metal scrap price ?
Does anyone know if a EV1 survived GM executions......
If I was old enough and had money and loads of space I'd like to have one of these just to keep for the future. Hydrogen powered cars don't really have a future but that doesn't mean they are not interesting.
I think hydrogen is easier to find in Japan than here. That said, the continuing push for FCEVs by Toyota is just head-scratchingly stupid. They are practically giving these cars away, and no one wants them.
Toyota and Honda, stop dithering and start building gigafactories, or lose your companies in the coming transition.
Hydrogen fuel only makes practical and financial sense for large vehicles such as trains, ships, ferries, .. (perhaps trucks and buses), which need fast recharging.
Most importantly, due to the explosive hazard ... Only refill locations with hydrogen generator by water electrolysis(non pollute).
Should avoid transportation tank or large storage.
Also the Saturn 5. Power and water was generated using hydrogen
Just looked on 2020 August used Mirai prices. I think any used US$ 20,000 car from 2017 has higher prices.
I don't understand why Toyota obstinate on Hydrogen, that's clearly a wrong market idea, EV have already demonstrated their relevance and easy way usage when plug in at home. With Hydrogen its more difficult!
I don't understand how anyone thinks an EV that runs on Hydrogen is a good idea. Just crazy. The BEV allows you to charge anywhere. These Mirais put you back at a gas station like setup. The best part about getting a BEV is never going to a gas station again. I did not know how great that would be. I tell people all the time that I charge my Model 3 at home 99% of the time so I spend about 2 seconds to plug the car in when I get home and I leave the next day with a full fuel tank. Could not be easier. I also drove the east coast from South Carolina to Vermont in my Model 3. Here is where Tesla is by far the best. I never spent more then 15 minutes at a super charger unless I was also eating a meal. Tesla's software unusually had me fueled enough to continue my trip up the coast in about 8 minutes.
And I still wouldn't take it. No H2 infrastructure so I'd be tethered to the only nearby stations.
Mark Lawrence And dependent on it remaining open for you.
the only way I would buy one is if I could make my own h2 at home.
David Lazarus that is the whole problem. All the stations may shut down in 6 months or a year.
@@MarkLLawrence making the hydrogen is the easy part. The hard part is purifying the hydrogen to the standards the fuel cell requires, and the harder part is compressing that gas enough to store enough for a reasonable range. It requires an insane pressure of 10,000 psi (yes, 5 TONS per square inch) to get the full 320 mile range.
The hardest part is finding the funding for all the expensive equipment needed - and convincing yourself that it makes any sort of economic sense.
Darn cheap power in the US 🇺🇸 😳 Here in Germany 🇩🇪 I pay 0.27€/kWh at home and most funny 0.25€/kWh with my mobile charge card.
How to check how much money is left in the Toyota Mira fuel card?
I don't know who would get one in SoCal. Depending on where you live, many of the stations are off line or empty. Just check cafcp.org/stationmap. Also, the longer you keep the car, the lower the resale value will be. The reasoning is that there is an expiration date of the tanks and anything that the hydrogen comes in contact with. So in 10 years, who in their right mind will spend the money to get new high pressure tanks, fittings, seals, as well as the expensive fuel stack? The car would not be worth it.
This would make a good fleet car for sales reps and insurance adjusters, where their area of work would not take them out of the area. It is clear that the penetration of the hydrogen car has not been very effective, nor dose it appear that support for the vehicle outside of Japan has taken off, here is an old English saying.
They are flogging a dead horse.
I live in California but I plan to transition to Las Vegas Nevada what do you people think about driving back-and-forth from Nevada to California
We pay 15.80SEK per litre (diesel or petrol) in Sweden. That equates to $5.56 per gallon (3.7 litres per gallon). What is the cost per litre diesel in the US?
Christoffer Sandberg currently around 2.60 a gallon in southeast
An Hydrogen fuelling station costs millions to build and maintain , are far from profitable even in the most densest FCEV populated areas (see California and Korea) even after dozens of millions subsides by Governments. After 1-2 car refills in succession the next car will see refill times up to 20 minutes because of the gas in the main tank that needs to be brought again to 750bar by the compressor , the more use it gets in succession, the more time the compression will need to keep up.
Also in the end for the consumer a Model 3 Long range , has a similar range but it's cheaper to buy, much better performances, better to drive, 5 seats and much more space inside for passengers and luggage (seriously have you seen the Mirai boot?), (not my cup of tea) but also more enjoyable to the eye and bottom line, you can charge pretty much everywhere and have a europe trip with minimal hassle added vs ICE compared to a FCEV that has an 150miles umbilicard cord to orbit around one of the few expensive and not economically profitable H refilling stations.
2024..... is this still the case? Mirais are still on sale. looking to replace a 2005 4runner that's doing 14MPG and gas at about $4.50 /gal
Hi and thanks.Please help me to go from Irvine to Sanjose.Scare of fuel.What cities in HWY 5 N has station fuel.
just signed my lease papers today for a total cost of 16k for 3 years at 12k miles per year
Now if i include the 5k government rebate and the 15k gas card its essentially free cause i was going to buy fuel anyways, at the end of the day i look at it like im driving a 60k dollar car for free for 3 years and i have a back up car when fueling stations might be down lets see how my experience is
Hey man, it's been 2 months, how is the car what do you feel?
@@waterspinach3145 Car is great. I even used the free rental and it was really easy. Only thing maybe I underestimated was the fuel cost its a little more expensive than I thought but I do not regret the deal.
@@robertramirez7508 Thanks for the reply. I also just bought a used one so far so good. But the range did shrink a lot though still OK for use.
Your math doesn't quite add up. Mirai 300 miles uses 5 kg (roughly 5 gal gas) is about 60 MPGe. H costing $13 to $16.50 is directly equivalent to gasoline. In effect, 4 seater Mirai would be paying about $16/gal compared to 5 seater Prius eco. 300 miles would cost $5*16 = $80! In other words, Mirai is paying 12 MPG Prius when gas is $3/gal.
My wife and I saw this car at the HOV lane and I told my wife "Damn that's a ugly looking car" then I told my wife mainly because may be it has better drag coefficient than a Tesla model 3 😕 then my wife search online and came out laughing 😂😂 because she found out that the model 3 has better drag coefficient than Mirai 🙈. Also $6 per gallon seriously 😀😀.
I’d totally buy one if I lived in LA. You gotta admire the tech and free fueling.
And the associated cost in replacing the PEMFuel cell stack. Fc uses Pt in the mgrams range... Just Platinum costs about 2000$/g.
Or just get a BEV since it's cheaper, better, and the free fuel isn't some magic subsidy.
Hydrogen is still expensive so I can't imagine $15,000 of fuel would last more then 5-8 years
At $3/gal gasoline, H at $15 is 5 times more. Mirai is effectively 12 MPG car. How long would $15K last you with 12 MPG car, especially if you have to drive out of your way to get fuel?
Hydrogen cars are just a stupid idea. Hydrogen is expensive and it takes s lot of energy to manufacture. EVs definitely the future.
Aren't those all the reasons they told us not to buy BEV, except this time their true. EVs call charge anywhere, heck there are electric campers (Now You Know did a video) with dollar to power them and cars that give you 30 miles of range based on solar only charging per day
Elon was right, hydrogen is crap. It might make sense for shipping boats, but batteries are way more efficient
Come on Toyota, stop this nonsense and brings us a BEV.
These hydrogen cars will be a thing of the past...
Yeah, I'd rather pay the extra money and get a Bolt EV and Adventure from Chicago to Miami in winter. Hydrogen fuel cells make you a prisoner of the central California coast, which although a very nice area is not where I want to spend all my time.
I wouldn't want one of those cars if you gave it to me.
Lol, you actually gave Tesla (Bev's) a compliment....(👀looking for the flying pigs)
Car Insurance on a 2017 miai is $3000 a year, due to its expensive parts:( considered a luxury vehicle
Hydrogen will never make it.
These FCEV makers need to get modern hydrogen technology working for them. I came across videos of a revolutionary system for onsite hydrogen and energy generation by an energy company called H2IL Look them up - it would solves the issues of fuelling stations.
Cheeky with the “fire” pun in “fire sale”. LOL
An excellent explanation :)
Actually the hydrogen at most refueling stations is 30% renewable, vs 7% renewable for the nation's electric grid. And 2 local stations are 100% renewable H2 production with more being added. These are great cars.
Electrolysis is a damn inefficient process though. The overall efficiency of a FCEV is only about 1/3 of a BEV. So even with 100% coal power plants BEVs will be about as clean.
(btw. if you consider local stations then you should also consider the local electricity grid - just to keep things fair)
Can someone help me with the math?
$15,000÷$16 a gallon that's roughly 937 gallons right?
973 x 300(roughly) is 280k-ish. Less since it never gets the "mpg" it states.
Is this correct?
Well, today it's $36/kg with the same 15k card. So $15,000/$36 gives you 416kg of H2. The Mirai gets 65mile/kg, so that's 65 x 416 = 27,000 miles of free driving. After that, it's $200 per fillup.
Fool cells
I would love to know what cars those owners changed to. I have no proof, but I suspect we all know the answ3r.
Dang.. talk about range anxiety..
Hydrogen is just another feeble attempt by the greedy corporatists to keep the motorist tied to a consumable fuel, which they can control.
Electricity is already available almost everywhere; and it's also able to be generated at the POP. It's totally clean to consume, and batteries are 98% recyclable. The only hydrogen fuel cell cars you will see in twenty years, will have been adapted to batteries.
They (the rich and powerful) have been trying to control power (energy) since they disabled Nikola Tesla's wireless free energy device on Long Island. When they found out it was impossible to meter, and would amount to free electricity, the dropped him like a hot potato, stopped his funding, and destroyed his lab and equipment. These rich folks play hardball.
Note, it was not free energy, you still needed a supplier. The problem is the second half, you could not meter it because anyone could build a simple receiver and get the power without metering.
Damn legit wanted one after the headline but I’m from Texas, that rear end makes my i3 look old
Hydrogen now!
There is so many cons as to why the Mirai (and any Hydrogen fuel cell car) is such a bad choice, not the least is the fact Toyota made it so damn ugly.
They look like they have been pre crashed before delivery.... And it's sister vehicle the Prius won't win any beauty pageants either.
People with more money than sense do crazy things and companies with more money than sense do the same.
LOVE the T-Shirt.