I mean if you look at the guy you can kinda start to think he doesn't understand the concept of "dressing nice for yourself to be comfortable. Fashion, style and makeup can be fun" Like is it that weird to him that people like to look well put together and might enjoy putting together good looking outfits. If women dressed nice just for male attention then why do so many of us dress up nicely with a fashionable outfit and makeup when we have girls dinner together at home... I personally spend about 1 hour getting ready in the morning, because I LIKE it, I think it's fun when I get compliments on my style from my friends, and I get happy when I walk by a mirror.
Thunderf00t cares more about pwnage than correctly representing an opponent's argument, and especially Anita seems to bring out the worst in him. TJ has always been a bit dishonest and a self-admitted piece of shit. Sargon doesn't take some things seriously enough to delve deeply into them, but he seems honest at least. These 3 channels may be the largest ones opposing Feminism, but they are certainly not the best in regards to argumentation or topical knowledge. They're still funny though, and I would recommend them (with varying degrees of reservation). Just make sure that you take everything with a grain of salt, like you ALWAYS should.
If you say, watch other videos on this channel and similar ones about Sargon (like H.Bomberguy's Antifeminism vs FACTS) you'll see that Sargon is *ludicrously* lazy to the point of being dishonest.
What always weirds me out is how they describe Anita's innocuous "wine mum" outfits like their stripper clothes. Like if you see normal clothes so sexualised wtf.
Even if she did wear stripper clothes i dont see the hypocrisy, because, you could wear literally anything for any reason, you cant just look at an outfit and go “yeah, so, THIS is why your wearing that” Tho if you do see someone dressed like there gonna rob a bank maybe be worried, but like, a midriff? Lipstick? Unless your a psychic i dont think you will know why they wear that
I feel bad after watching this. I have always heard about Anita through lenses of someone else. I had never gone to watch her videos, I didn't feel the need to because obviously she totally sucks and is mean and unreasonable. To my utter surprise, I found out she can be pretty reasonable or at least bring up interesting points that are worth thinking about. I like a lot of what she said in the clips you played and have gone to watch some videos myself. I'm also a lady that plays and loves games, and her idea of having more diverse and out there female characters appear more often sounds fantastic to me! Just for the sole reason of making games stand out from one another. Also, I'm so damn bored with the damsel in distress storyline. I'm excited to see all these new games coming out that slap you across the face with how they break the mold! So sure, I don't always agree with Anita, but from what I've seen she's got some nice talking points and totally normal opinions on a lot of things. I can see how much cherry picking is done by those who cover her videos. Shaun! You've done it again. You've made me feel like a big idiot. I always liked to think I was reasonable and could trust my sources but this video, and your one on cuphead have made me rethink everything. I am guilty of not doing my own research into certain topics. So thank you. You've made me a lot more mindful of how I get my information. Seriously, I really appreciate it.
I have to admit that I first heard about her by watching a thunderf00t video. I found him because of his creationism videos. until recently I actually never heard some of her statements in the right context.
I think the real problem with her videos is simply that they are kinda boring. I've seen a lot of videos 'debunking' her and I just can't be bothered to watch the source material, so her critics get away with all sorts of bullshit. I'm glad someone is calling them out.
Well, she is talking about serious stuff. Shiny jump cuts and gags every few seconds don't really help when you want your talking points and subjects to be taken seriously. My favorite TH-cam critic is Noah Caldwell Gervais, and his videos are pretty much just game footage with his voice over with minimum editing. Sounds boring, but his texts are so well written and interesting, I want to focus on what he has to say.
@BaddeJimme did you just blame the victim? did you just blame the person they take out of context? if anything you are the "real problem" for not watching them.
"Hey, Thunderf00t, may I use your Phone for a second?" "Okay, just let me do something really quick!" (Deletes all 431 images of Anika Sarkeesian's midrift)
I was once in the""skeptical" community crowd hating on feminism. Now that I have seen the other side, I know that what was presented was a distortion of reality. For now on, I'll be skeptical of the "skeptical" community.
Max Lightning I was the same way. Then after about a year I realized that I had been watching the same video every day over and over again, but it was being made by different people. The content just got painfully repetitive. I will say that I still enjoy Chris ray gun and some black guy though. There are definitely people in or around that Community were way worse than others.
Same here, I was on the train until about a year ago when I stumbled on to hbomberguy talking about the armored skeptic's take on Bill Nye saves the world. Bubble was burst
the skeptical community was a big deal for me when i was losing my religion. I had a lot of anger and frustration and they gave voice to it. After decades of indoctrination, ridiculing faith traditions was welcome catharsis. I don't blame people for being in that headspace at all. However, it's not a healthy place to get stuck long term. After awhile the appeal of pwnage wears off and you see the glaring flaws in their arguments and strange fixation on people like anita. This is "pop skepticism". Stuff to get a reaction from viewers rather than persuade rationally. It's a community that helped me process my feelings coming out of religion, but i quickly outgrew it.
Like many other people, I got into the yt skeptic community while deconverting from religion. Thankfully, my channel of choice was always TBR, now Hugo and Jake. I watched a few TAA/Armored Skeptic/Sargon videos, but once I'd thoroughly deconverted, the usual "apologetics breakdown" video seemed repetitive. Hugo and Jake had a different style that was more entertaining (reviewing Christian movies and reading the Christian bible), so I stuck with them. Though they seem to try to stay out of skeptic community drama for the most part, they've criticized the alt-right wave on several occasions and are both themselves pretty far left. I think that probably influenced the fact that I didn't really get suckered into the right wave in the YT skeptic community though in many ways I'm a prime candidate. I got bored with everyone else before they started swinging right.
With regards to the tangent Thunderf00t went off on about Sarkeesian's clothes and make-up, it's worth noting that trying to exonerate a badly-designed outfit on a female character by criticising the fashion choices of an actual woman is completely ridiculous. There's a big distinction between an actual, real-life woman choosing to wear what she would like to wear, and a graphic designer creating an outfit for a character that they think would be appealing to an audience.
+Shaun and Jen, iit's impossible to get everything in there. Your video would be several hours long if you picked apart everything from every angle. But I agree, CubeJackal's point is astute.
Tavi ! Designers have creative freedom, If you don't like scantily clad women do not play/watch content with them, I personally see nothing wrong depending on the theme of the content, obviously It's laughable when something with a ''serious'' theme includes It, but I don't see anything wrong with sex, or sexualized characters, be they female or male. His argument is stupid.
@Mr. TA you don't know Terrax personally, how are you supposed to know hes in embarrassment now? His life could of been changed by switching sides and you don't know it.
The bit where thunderfoot goes off on her wearing... "red-coloured lipstick to imply AROUSAL" and descends into this big rant, like... that's just the level of makeup most women wear if they're going out or, say, filming a video series. My mum wears fuckn lipstick, is my fifty year old mother sexually misleading on the people in her department by going to work with eyeliner? Guys thinking every part of a woman's appearance is a conscious decision catered to make pique their interest for consumption, shaking my head.
Red lips simulating arousal is why we like the colour. NOT why people necessarily wear the red lipstick. Mandrills have blue butts. If i wear blue lipstick am i trying to simulate a baboon's butt? nope.
"Here is why make up on women, is their reason to AROUSE so many-" Or they just, feel comfy or like it, makes them feel safe secured since society degrades them for NOT wearing it but nah, it's always about jack and his off course ain't it?
So many people who make this argument about arousal ignore that red also makes you look more alive and less tired looking, which is kind of something a lot of people want in general especially if they're in front of an audience.
that bit about lipstick is something Jordan Peterson has also said before, idk if he was the first person to say it but I wouldn't doubt Thunderf00t is a fan of Peterson.
First time I saw that "Everything is sexist" clip, I immediately went: "That has _got_ to be taken out of context." So I found the whole video, and wouldn't you know it...
It’s really the only one in this video that is OBVIOUSLY taken out of context. Like, she uses a sarcastic tone and people in Thunderfoot’s comments actually believe she thinks it
@@gavinj1456 And she's smiling/laughing about it! If she was 100% serious, as portrayed, like...wouldn't she be taking it a little more serious?? Because it is a serious subject. Everyone is taking her more seriously than she is, it's weird. You think they'd stop for 2 seconds and realize that they were clearly interpreting it differently.
Same here. I'm not even neurotypical but it was pretty clear to me that she wasn't giving people instructions. It just seems weird to even try to pass off something that's so clearly an anecdote as something it's not
Hbomberguy sent me here! Really well argued, nicely put together. I liked your relaxed tone and that your jokes arise naturally. Always glad to see well done reactions to those people.
I think the best thing about Shaun is that, unlike almost everyone Shaun speaks of, he doesn't encourage a violent nature at all. And i don't just mean misogyny or discrimination. A lot of these people making commentaries on youtube, have this horrible habit of expressing strong negative feelings in their videos, not just in a form of opinion, but in a form of encouragement to the viewer. I can remember how i wanted bad things to happen to whoever was being spoken of whenever I saw a video coming from someone like Naked Ape for example. However, Shaun's videos are all so calm and slow in how they criticize, that even when he talks about a horrible fascist on his videos, I'm not encouraged to go out of my way to hurt them or say bad things about them. It's so strange but small details like those can really make the difference between a video that wants to hurt and attack someone, and a video that wants you to learn from their mistakes. I couldn't be more glad to have found this channel.
@@dashisneat I've heard she had some kind of a ridiculous fundraiser with a goal that was way too high. Something about making a video series and not releasing that many videos afterwards, or at least being super late.
The Fox Nope. The goal was only 25k. She got a lot more than she initially asked for, so it took longer because if she did the same amount of work, then she basically would be walking away with the rest of the money. Even if she asked for too much to begin with, and took to long to deliver, it wouldn’t make her a con-artist.
Why does thunderf00t say Anita has a "presumably straight male" audience? That's certainly not his opinion? His stereotype of "SJWs" is mostly feminist women and LGBT people? It's not hard to find him implying or even directly stating that her audience is an echo chamber of women? (The answer is that he's massively dishonest)
Given that he presents her SJW fans are typically not straight, white, cis men it really seems he's makign the assumption that most of the people in her audience are straight, white, cis men implying he sees that as the default which is exactly what he's saying people don't do
@June I'd give you a thumbs up for the sentiment, but the fact that you have four question marks in your post that only has one question in it is bugging my OCD.
Agree or disagree with what Anita is saying, she does form well though out arguments for her positions, and it's unfair of her detractors to purposefully cherrypick and edit her videos to make it seem as though she doesn't. If you believe what she is saying is objectively false, then you should be able to effectively argue against her without resorting to such slimey tactics.
When I first heard her arguments via all these TH-camrs, I kinda thought she was a bit daft. It wasn't til I actually watched some of her vids that I heard what she was saying properly. And a lot of it makes sense. I've been gaming sinc eI was 5. Thats over 30 years gaming. I've seen a lot of games (And missed even more ha ha) and a lot of her point ring true. There is a lot of over sexualization of characters in games which is fine, but theres very little of the other side to balance it out. There even hyper sexualized characters who actually have great character (females I mean). Which is my problem. I could not argue against her points cos they aligned with what I've seen. My only conclusion is that the folk saying she's wrong have never objectively looked at games or have simply not played for long enough or enough different games to realise there is this imbalance.
kudosbudo What imbalance? She cherry picked a few games out of thousands. The vast majority of video games that have a decent player base now and even back then don’t oversexualize females and give them adequate representation. She was making a meal out of a small issue for clicks and cash
One thing I live about the lefty pantheon is the diversity of style, with Thought Slime's sewer, Hbomberguy's constant irreverent jokes and editing humor, Philosophy Tube and his sexualization of himself and theatre, Contrapoints doing also that but with more memes, and then we have Shaun, a man so dry that he starts videos like "this is a video about thunderf00t". What I love particularly about Shaun is that he speaks in exactly the same tone whether joking or serious, so his jokes surprise me and make me laugh even more.
urgh ... im starting to get a sinking feeling that ive got a lot of egg on my face and i am just about realise my balls are on display for the world to see .... i am being deprogrammed and finding out "the rationales" are doing things for that sweet youtube money or fame ... a friend of mine warned me youtubers were a bit nuts and sway arguments for views and your videos are showing that... thank you for your time on explaining these things.
"The rationales" made their entire careers and community out of pushing "skepticism" as a lifestyle brand without ever actually being skeptical or expecting it of their audience. They always believe without question anything the "in-group" says that conforms the narrative about the "out-group", and questioning said narrative gets you ostracized. Glad you got out, and hope you kept out. There's a lot to learn out there as an _actual_ skeptic rather than the closed-minded lifestyle brand variant.
My favorite Thunderf00t cherrypick is still the one where Anita talks about how she loves games like Papo & Yo and how it isn't fun in the conventional sense. I like games like that too that are deeply engaging but aim for a non-euphoric experience, This War of Mine being an example. But Thunderf00t shouts "AHA! There you have it! Anita Sarkeesian wants games to not be fun!" Even in the context he presents in his own video it's an obvious strawman but that still doesn't seem to be enough to sink his credibility with his fans.
I was a fan, and it sunk his credibility with me. It was a weird downward spiral, from his high point of poking fun at creationists to a really uninformed theory about Yahweh being a volcano-god (IIRC the consensus is he's a storm god), to a fight with P.Z. Meyers, to pretty much the first video or two on Anita and I was out. And that was for thinking he was wrong. I didn't realize until this video just how dishonest he was being. Those quote-mines would make a Creationist blush!
Jesus Christ, i really need to thank T1J for sending me in your direction. Do you have any idea of how much of a rarity you are? A youtuber who actually thinks his points through AND does research?! Did i die and went to heaven? Keep up the good work man, cheers from Brazil!
If you like this, I would suggest watching Garrett as well. He also does a lot of research and thinks through his points. I actually came here because Garrett did a mirror of another one of Shaun and Jen's videos.
At this point, it seems like Thunderfoot argues with the version of Anita Sarkeesian that he has invented over a dozen videos. The actual content of her videos is pretty irrelevant to his audience, as evidenced by the fact that a ton of them don't bother watching her videos.
Okay I've been seeing you throughout the comments here and I have to ask, do you bother proofreading your comments before posting them? Like every post I've seen from you includes at least one or two words that you misspelled and either ignored or tried to correct with spell check only to get the wrong word (Like with "Nether" here rather than the grammatically correct "Neither". Like seriously you have to be TRYING this hard to have so many typos.
What, do you work for a publishing company and not able to clock out of work, or something? Making you get a spasm every time you see something spelled wrong? Maybe hanging out at the youtube comment section isn't the best idea then. I mean you clearly understand what he's trying to write so it shouldn't be hard to just ignore a missed "i". Maybe he's not "TRYING" to spell stuff wrong, but rather english isn't his native language. Maybe he's young and learning. Here you go Necromancer1230, have an internet point for being such an infallible human being with perfect grammar.
You know just from casual viewing on TH-cam I’d developed an image of Sarkeesian which wasn’t real. I’m actually a bit angry at a lot of TH-cam content creators for misleading me about her views. For the last few years I’ve been primed to wince when her name is mentioned because of TH-cam creators who bought into people like Sargon & thunderfoot’s BS.
It was funny. I heard of her. Watched her. All her vids. And kinda agreed with most of the points. I've played games for a long ass time, and a variety of games. It was just something I'd never sat down and thought about. What gets me more is when i watched the skeptics vids and it becomes painfully clear that very few of them have played all that many games. And none of them know anything about any of the more advanced tricks in many games. All while mainting this image of themselves as "hardcore" gamers.
Same here, I was never a feminism hater but I was certainly convinced that Anita was a con-woman I thank people like Shaun for conditioning me out of it
It's more sad than anything. It's better to see someone thrive, than to see them fail. Imagine if Thundef00t's channel didn't exist, but the man himself wasn't so hateful? I think that's better than what we have currently.
I love the double think in these comments sections. “Oh, look at BPS, what an INCEL, can’t even get a girl! Had to “migrate” *hurp durp* to JAPAN to bang that cute waifu! Nobody wants him here, tee her!” “Oh, they don’t want girls, Stupid misogynists! Just like little boys in GROsS clubs, they didn’t ditch us we ditched them, amirite girls?!” Bunch of single cat-women pretending they turned down all these doting alt-right suitors lol
My theory is that thunderf00tfetish has been cursed by a bog witch and now has to make at least one video about Anita Sarkeesian every month or he fucking dies
...but Michael she still talking about the facts of "systems" which is a core principle of feminism. Yeah they are having a laugh about it, but it's still their own philosophy that they promote. All it proves is that they know how ridiculous their own bullshit is.
When you learn about something new and exciting, it's pretty common to connect it to everything around you. When it's an abstraction, it's even easier. She is laughing AT her younger self, using 'everything' and 'all' to underscore her overblown perception.
This probably won't get seen but for anyone reading these replies: The point she was making was that when she was learning about systems she started seeing it everywhere, but she was self-admittedly wrong. But there is sexism in the world, and she feels strongly that the gaming industry has some issues regarding sexism. Her content is to show her belief, and she makes a living off of that. That doesn't mean she's "calling all sorts of banal things sexist", she's pointing out things that are overtly sexist, but also things that could be considered problematic. As Shaun's video shows, context is very important. Don't just read someone say "she's calling everything sexist REEEEE" and then assume they are right. Watch some of her content and come to your own conclusion. I know everyone has the kneejerk reaction of "I just want to play games, don't ruin this for me." It's okay to enjoy games and acknowledge sexism at the same time.
Well, she left it conveniently open ended though. Left to the interpretation of her audience of rabid feminists whether she was wrong. She jokes but doesn't have the courage to say what isn't sexist. Is there anything she could say that wouldn't offend someone is such an audience. I think not.
Whenever I watch Anita Sarkeesian or other Feminist Frequency videos I always end up thinking that they're just so... reasonable? Like, well structured, measured arguments that make sense backed up with lots of examples and evidence? I never understand how people could turn to white hot rage at such calm and thoughtful videos (well, of course I do understand why...)
why in the end her arguments are just the same shit depictions of (____a____) in(____b____) reinforces (_____c____) Patricia Pulling (a);satanic imagery (b) D&D (c)Satanism, Fredric Wrentham (a) violence (b) comics (c) violence, Will H Hays (a)what ever is in the Hays Code (b) movies (c) moral decay, Jack Thompson a) violence (b) video games (c) violence, Anita Sarkeesian (a) sexism (b) video games (c) sexism,
Most of self proclaimed sceptics don't watch the source material they criticise. It'd take too much effort so any sargon will do as an intellectual shortcut they need.
Honestly I've never watched them -- I assumed she was an idiot with bad points and was a bully who wanted to ruin video games -- but these clips are making me think she actually just seems . . . pleasant. And interesting. And not saying anything especially radical or controversial. I was promised a shrill rage harpy calling everything sexist and I'm quite disappointed to see a normal woman talking about things she finds interesting.
@@trip9845 Depictions of "Feminism" in "TH-cam videos" reinforces "political correctness" Depictions of "wider context" in "games journalism" reinforces "preachiness" Depictions of "gamers" in "public" reinforces "humilating stereotypes about gamers" Depictions of "bad arguments" in "comment sections" reinforces "my cynical outlook on the regressive nature of global politicial trends"
When Anita began her series “Tropes vs. Women in gaming” l was in a pretty impressionable stage in my life and a close and trusted friend of mine showed it to me, but not before thoroughly poisoning the well and directing me toward negative responses that people were having toward her. I was, l am ashamed to say, convinced that Anita was an unreasonable person trying to censor the games l love for some dubious purpose I never fully conceptualized. I am doubly ashamed to say l also found and became a subscriber of Thunderf00t’s. Talk about a bad aftertaste. It’s been a long journey, but after much introspection and delving into sociology with strong intentionality to remove previous biases I had accepted into myself, l seriously respect Anita’s position and her work here. Among other things, I unapologetically identify as a feminist, a word I would previously avoid. I don’t necessarily agree with all of Anita’s statements, but l support her message and appreciate all the work she’s done to that end. I love videogames, and l want them to be a medium everyone else can love as well.
Maybe that's why his voice starts to take on a slight hysterical giggle the more he describes her make up and clothing. I'm sure after every video he created about Anita, he would wear a hair shirt for penance for his confused feelings of arousal and self-loathing.
Blond Panda Yah, it's a sneaking suspicion that I get myself. Like, if you look on the TVTropes page for the guy, there's an entry for "One of Us," saying that he's an avid player of Unreal Tournament. At first my response to that is "which one?", but on second thought, whichever installment of the series it is, it isn't exactly a hopping playerbase.
+Thom Avella, your comment is a prime example of cherry picking. All those other arrows pointed to the rating icon (and you notice, directly above the GTA title, the arrow is pointing to not the Rockstar logo, but the rating icon on Red Dead Redemption?). But you pick the *only* one that isn't?
Dude what Anita had to say about League and the variety of male body typed and _how their appeal had nothing to do with how sexually attractive their bodies are_ really hit me. Like, it is true. There are plenty of lovable men in video games who aren’t particularly attractive…but women? Not so much
Don’t forget about that blizzcon where a woman asked for some non-hyper sexualized female characters that didn’t look like they “ just stepped out of a Victoria’s Secret catalogue” only for one of the nobs on the panel to ask back, “well what catalogue would you prefer they step out of”
There's a ton of oversexualized men in media. I agree, though, that women don't have much representation of the less sexual kind in video games. There are some notables that break it, but its still a problem.
YES. same with anime, like, one piece, there are so many goofy looking lovable guys, but women? I can LITERALLY only think of ONE! ONE!! its ridiculous.
no he is not he just change from criticizing one dogmatic belief to criticizing that are the ones who do use the same kind of dishonest methods as the Creationists
AvengingMikon i just have dysgraphia or you just believe in bullshit so heavy you are just are incapable of understanding any thing that is not sporting your ideologue
Please give a logical reason that Thunderf00t would have for taking Anita out of context that would completely reverse the actual meaning of the statement. I submit no such rationale exists, and the only possible reason is that TF is applying a mere veneer of rationality to a subject he is acting emotionally over. Which is the same as the creationists he formerly engaged with.
it was a fad that lasted less than a decade, and the content creators are upset because they thought it was an easy ride living off recording themselves knocking down self-erected strawmen.
For what it's worth, now he just harps on bad science--things like debunking the idea of solar roadways, Elon Musk's Hyperloop, and that sort of thing. It's usually backed by solid physics, but also sort of downplays the idea that science is progressive--that being, in 2000 there were a large number of people who believed the largest hard drive you could ever produce would be 8 GB. I have more RAM than that nowadays, and have entire terrabytes devoted to the bullshit I do when I'm being unproductive. He's right... for now. But he's incorrect in that he assumes that, because the technology is shit now, that it always will be. In some cases (solar roadways) he's probably correct, because it's based entirely in modern tech and not in realistic models of what could be developed with proper funding. In others, he's perhaps wrong--I specifically think of the Hyperloop because, while the general idea is pretty solid, it mostly pertains to our ability to complete such an idea currently--but he provides solid ideas as to why he's wrong. Ever since he divorced himself from this drama, social justice shit he has been pretty cool. Also bought a phantom camera, so occasionally you get some awesome slow-motion photography, the likes of which Slow-Mo Guys will never cover because Gavin is more into explosions and whatnot :)
I was super-excited when Thunderf00t joined FreeThought Blogs, because I really liked TF and I liked the blog network. And then, his blog posts were absolute trainwrecks (seriously, they were grammarless rants); I think he made two or three before being kicked from the network. And then his TH-cam channel became massively antifeminist and I just gave up on him.
I owe Anita Sarkesian an apology. I never really followed thunderf00t's anti-feminism but I thought he was above such obvious quote mining. Thanks for pointing it out.
Reading these comments, its amazing to see how you've influenced people into reconsidering their own thinking. Thank you so much for all of your hard work
"Talking about problematic things in a game doesn't mean you have to hate it" Good lord, if there was one thing I wish I could instill in those gamergate knuckleheads it would be that. For some reason there is this absolute monster backlash from the altier rightier "gamer" crowd where they react to any form of criticism as if it is equivalent to hating a game or refusing to buy it or demanding it not be sold or however far they want to go in their crazy strawman. Critique, including feminist critique, doesn't in any way imply that the story of whatever you are dealing with is abhorrent, it means it could be better. Every single feminist I have ever met in my life, including myself, enjoys more than a few problematic stories. Sometimes DEEPLY problematic stories. There is no reason for the chicken little routine when something you like is critiqued! Good things can be critiqued! You can enjoy things that get elements of their design wrong! Why is this so incomprehensible to some people?
You have an excellently pleasing and calm voice, it's as if you could remain level headed if you walked in on a dolphin having its way with your dog and be like "Oh, well I guess this is happening, and here are some points as to why."
Back when I was still angry, drinking a lot and watching ppl like TF, Sargon etc. I never bothered watching Anita's videos or searching for different perspectives that could have altered my view. I already "knew" what kind of a person she was so why should I? This was quite a while ago and I never gave that shit much thought again - only recently did I start actually challenging the views I actively held back then: Anita is definitely more competent and constructive than the version of her I held some weird, constructed grudge against. Thanks for this video, Shaun.
I’ve never watched Anita, and nor do I really plan to that much in the future, but I’ve only heard bad things about her. She’s always been described as some mad SJW who hates all video games and men (obviously I didn’t believe any of it, I’ve just never heard anything good about her). But after watching this video she just seems like a genuinely nice and intelligent person
Katherine Keirns I do think it should stop. I think czeckie is just point out thats what he is doing. He has feeling, he doesn’t know what to do, so he is reverting back to his fifth grade way of approaching girls. A lot of us agree it’s something that needs to change.
its kind of creepy what all of yous are doing. thunderf00t makes trash/boring content but gets a lot of views for every anita video he makes and bashing on anita is easy. so, he continues making those vids. im honestly more worried about you two unnaturally manufacturing this gross (and strangely detailed) story in your minds making a man out to be some kind of abuser or creep who "cant understand his feelings and is in love" and so he is bullying a girl as a way to get her attention. it was so easy for you two to create this conspiracy and seemingly believe in it without a doubt, with the only evidence being that he makes a lot of videos bashing on her (following that logic i guess half of the anti-sjw youtube community secretly want steve shives dick). it speaks more about your mental health then thuderf00ts. please don't ever do that again.
I used to watch thunderf00t because he'd debunk kickstarter scams by pointing out the flaws in their science, but i slowly lost interest in him because he always seemed incredibly vitriolic and patronizing to the point of it being offputting. I never knew about his bizarre obsession with this one woman, on whom his videos are somehow even more spiteful and condescending.
same, he kind of got stuck doint the same thing over and over again. like, we got it by the second video that solar roadways was bullshit, don't need five more to beat that dead horse
Thunderf00t was the first TH-cam channel I subscribed to. I was a bit of a militant atheist at the time. I used to get banned from video game forums for breaking the rule against discussing religion. I felt a constant need to attack religion. So Thunderf00t's content was exactly what I was looking for in High School. But I felt uneasy about the shift toward attacking feminism. Something didn't sit right with me about it. After a few years of putting out that bullshit content I finally sifted through the minutia of watching all the videos he was "debunking". I discovered that he was viciously lying. And what he was doing was much worse than what's in this video. I saw a video where he cherry picked something Rebecca Watson said and then mocked her being worried about her physical safety. It turned out that Phil edited out the part of the video where she said that a man sent her a message saying he was going to find her at a convention and sexually assault her. To me, that goes beyond a typical cherry pick. I can excuse Phil's behavior on display in this video to some extent. But I cannot excuse that. He viciously smeared a woman for taking measures to protected herself from a threat of physical violence. I sincerely believe Phil Mason is a sociopath.
THANK YOU! I quit watching Thunderf00t when he lost his mind and went on this anti-feminist bender a few years ago. I appreciate you taking the time to put together this video pointing out so much of his illogical, foaming at the mouth, misogynist nonsense. I had considered doing something similar myself, but then I would have had to subject myself to that horrid part of humanity which thinks that "feminism", which basically means equal rights for both genders, is a bad word. I applaud your stamina.
Feminism is about equal rights for both SEXES, not genders. Many feminists consider gender roles to be stereotypes that are harmful and limiting for everyone concerned.
I was right there with Thunderf00t, Bearing, Sargon, and all the other anti-SJW people on TH-cam until Trump became president. It forced me to take a hard look at what I was advocating, and I realized it was crap.
I too kind of fit in with you two. I never thought of her as bad but just didn't know how evil and stupid gamer men were about her. They made her look like the devil when she's just some lady who wants society to be better... How is that so fuckin bad again?
It's almost like Gamergate was built on lies and bullshit so a bunch of neckbeards could have 2-minute hate sessions against women because they hate their mums.
Anita should be able to say anything she likes without any dissent or criticism. How dare these people disagree with a woman! We must simply listen and believe, no exceptions.
Sigh, I miss the days when Thunderf00t argued against fallacious arguments, quote-mining, and fanaticism instead of being the very evil he set out to combat. The guy has a phd in chemistry for goodness sake, so you know the guy was trained to do actual research and to put in hard work to formulate an argument. I just don't understand how he allowed topics like feminism and Islam to drive him to make some very dishonest and caustic videos.
"how he allowed topics like feminism and Islam to drive him to make some very dishonest and caustic videos." Your opinion and that's fine. My opinion is feminism and Islam are dishonest and caustic. Also you miss the days when he picked on creationists, I mean Christianity, I mean, you mean Christianity, right?? So Islam is off limits, is that what you are saying?
as a fan of thunderf00t I appreciate this video as I was guilty of not watching the original video. thunderf00t was misrepresenting Anitas argument either intentionally or otherwise. just because someone is pointing out flaws in someone you follow doesn't mean it's a bad video(I'm looking at the 900 people who downvoted).
I love how you can build a whole channel out of "Well someone in the alt-right just posted a popular video, guess I'll debunk it by... checking the sources they use." Like what other group is dumb enough to use sources that discredit their very argument? To their credit they do know their core audience either doesn't want to read or cant
@@paulelkin3531 - Flat earthers as well. Though when it comes to creationists and flat earthers, they tend to do it a bit less often because they rarely cite sources to begin with.
@@KingBobXVI To be honest, most of the conspiratorial groups can be counted here. I just figured creationists were important to note over the others given thunderfoot's history.
I wouldn't call Thunberf00t Alt Right at all. Seems to me like u haven't watched any of the guys videos and our basing your opinion of him on this single exert. I doubt you went and checked the sources. Watched each individual video so why on earth are you criticising others.
I love how Philip tries to disprove Anita by saying “they sexualize men too!” And he shows a collage with Michael Townely. Someone who is constantly mocked for gaining weight as he’s gotten older
I came here from hbomberman and it's a great video. Also, nice use of a skull as your background here... it's like a meta commentary on the anti-feminists who HAVE skulls in their videos.
*sigh...... My gosh.....perhaps I should've watched Sarkeesian's videos before being dragged to the pits of anti-feminist hell, by TH-camrs such as Thunderf00t.
hotelmario510 i read the word creep on here 15 times now. way to exploit a sex negative, gendershaming, lookist, essentially vacuous favorite feminist insult, lying hypocrite.
"First off here, Thunderf00t... Phillip, what the fuck, man? Are you doing okay, like, in general? Everything going alright over there? Because thats some weird shit you just did there." Best reaction, ever.
@@thatsalotofdamage8568 what's funny is i was thinking of this exact quote a few nights ago while watching a different Shaun video. So a weird, cosmic thank you for the reply!
Sorry to leave this in a TH-cam comment, but please keep making these videos. They cheer me up, they make me think, and they're a breath of fresh air. Thank you!
What I don't get about the criticism of Anita is this point: Why do they ask her why she is still making videos? She did a Kickstarter. She is obligated to do all the videos she promised in the first place. And she is obviously going to go through with it. So... do they want her to stop so they can call her a fraud again or are they just not paying attention?
Yeah a Kickstarter for improving Quality and Research, the _Research_ is on a Level with just use Google and the Quality of her Vids is the same, say what you want, shes a trained Scam Artist.
If she makes the videos too slowly she's a fraud and scam artist, if she does come out with the videos she's "making the same irrelevant content over and over again." She can't win.
Anita's Kickstarter far exceeded the funds that she requested and went actual years beyond the due date without finishing. Despite that, she went on to ask for more money years later and has made quite a lot of it. I know you don't think of her as a scam artist, but you have to understand that somebody who disagrees with her will mostly just see those big numbers of $300,000 and immediately assume the worst from the get-go with those facts
As a long time and current sub to Thunderf00t, I always wondered why he bailed on his anti-feminist videos. Don't get me wrong, I always felt he should stay within his scope of expertise but I've only recently discovered hbomb and shaun. It's quite refreshing to have criticism towards thunderf00t, rather than only being exposed to an echo chamber reinforcing his views. Thanks Shaun!
His field of expertise is primarily organic chemistry. In that field he seems to be genuinely good. This obviously means knowledge of physics but not all and definitely not in every field. But the further away he gets from that the less capable he is. Being a good chemist is exhausting. Being good at anything else especially societal issues a bit more difficult. Unfortunately his die hard fans often overrate him and give incorrect data on what his training is. Which is funny since his basic alma mater is easily available for anyone to check. Doesn't mean that someone cannot express an opinion but the smart scientists will always be careful to say 'this is not my field of expertise'. The smart and 'careful' scientist will know that he doesn't have access to everything and cannot reason every possible scenario.
It's actually a surreal experience. Throughout the entirety of GG, which I got swept up in, I'd never even actually heard Anita's voice. Hearing her talk, it really hurts knowing what was done to her during that time.
You know when I was in high school Thunderf00t's videos provided me with a lot of comfort, and useful information, being someone who was continuously under attack from people who got sucked into creationist evangelism. Then he started making videos about a woman who felt unsafe in an elevator. Then a woman looking at games with a feminist lens, and that moment is when I unsubscribed and never looked back. Before Anita started her Tropes vs. Women in Video Games series I was a fan of feminist frequency in general. Gamergate really was a ridiculous time, where your favourite science youtube channels RAPIDLY transitioned into being anti-women hate channels with no warning whatsoever.
CommissarKozlov "I joke about how it (learning about social systems) was the most liberating thing that ever happened to me and the most frustrating thing for everyone around me, cause when you start learning about systems everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out to everyone all the time, so there was a point in my life where i was the most obnoxious person to be around." The implication when she said this being that she no longer is that kind of person when she she started to see herself in a negative light for doing what she was doing.
they mad this argument depictions of (____a____) in(____b____) reinforces (_____c____) Patricia Pulling (a);satanic imagery (b) D&D (c)Satanism, Fredric Wrentham (a) violence (b) comics (c) violence, Will H Hays (a)what ever is in the Hays Code (b) movies (c) moral decay, Jack Thompson a) violence (b) video games (c) violence, Anita Sarkeesian (a) sexism (b) video games (c) sexism,
Anita is often so wrong 1. Critiquing that bayonettas Charakter has no complexity without playing the game or paying attention to the story 2.zalda is basically always a damsel in distress 3.her take on hitman where the women in the strip club are background decoration (even if they have a dialog that gave them some characterisation and let a normal human feel sry for them ) Not to mention that she doesn't record her own futage despite having more then enough resources for it
10:06 Anita Sarkeesian has also never said that video games causes violence or sexist behaviour. She's only said they *REINFORCE* violent and sexist behaviour. Totally not the same thing.
yep those are two different things, in order to reinforce an idea someone has to have that idea in the first place. Learn what words mean. dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/reinforce
Mads Hummelshøj-Agerholm Maybe I need to be more blunt in the future just so people like you can understand. There is no evidence to support EITHER of those conclusions, that games cause or REINFORCE violence or sexism but being that Jack Thompson tried the former and failed, Anita now tries the latter. Now, I have no doubt that if Anita Sarkeesian was a man that this thing would have died long ago. However, seeing as the media apparently sees women as more frail and incapable of dealing with mockery and criticism, instead of being shown the door like Jack, she's being lauded and idolised. (And yes, before you start, Jack Thompson also received multiple rape and death threats.) If Anita claims that games "reinforce" violent and sexist behaviour, she's in fact saying that games CAN have an influence on violence and sexism. Just because she uses vague language that implies the violence and sexism is already inherent (or dormant) doesn't change anything. And she's not saying this as a theory, she's asserting it as objective fact. The problem is that various studies made decades ago (and even more recent ones, too) disproved her claim even before she made it. There is no correlation whatever, no cause or "reinforcement" or anything of the sort. She's just spouting nonsense.
Pitchguest so you said that studies have proven that games cannot reinforce someones sexism. In order to prove that these studies have to prove that either A: culture cannot influence peoples beliefs B: Games are not part of culture please do link to these studies that you claim prove Anita wrong, because it woould be very fun to see a scientist claim either of those. Have you ever heard of propaganda and how it can influence people and Advertising can do something similar, what reason would there be for games to be any different?
Mads Hummelshøj-Agerholm Amazing. You basically just admitted that you don't have any basis for your argument and you choose to take Anita at her word without any critical thinking of your own. The studies disproving the correlation of real-life violence and games was done over twenty years ago and there are still studies being made today that still show no cause and effect. It's been done and you're well overdue. The studies disproving the correlation of real-life sexism and games are more recent. Here is one: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25844719 I'm not sure how willing you are to verify and frankly it's not really that important if you do, but the fact that you haven't even bothered to ask these questions before now is incredible. Can this woman say anything at all and you'll believe her? How gullible are you people?
funny here are some studies from the very same website www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27074057 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16533123 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24458215
What? When did I say that? I have seen plenty of legitimate criticism of her work, and if you don't agree that any of the actual criticism has merit, okay then. Nobody is justifying death threats and harassment, and if they are, they are clearly in the wrong.
I'm surprised you didn't get into Dr. Mason's conflating of the rating 'mature' with the content actually BEING mature. Most of the games that have an M rating slapped on them are, after all, some of the most childish games ever made.
Reminds me of the "Mature Readers" comics that are just blood and tits and fuckwords. Whereas the term was originally applied to comics that had a lot more going on, in terms of thematic material and more complex storytelling. And it still is, of course...but there are also a lot of the former, juvenile examples of "Mature Reader" comics.
@@jamesoblivion Yeah, just seems like the classification "Mature" needs a renaming - like "contains violence, sex, nudity, drug use, etc" rather than actually being a mature look at things. This video, for instance, is actually mature. Actually, that would be great - can you imagine picking up a game and instead of a "mature" rating it had a list on it like "contains: nihilism, existentialism, depression". I would play the hell out of that game.
It still boggles my mind how what Anita was talking about was ever controversial. You look back at many of these early 2000s and 2010s console games, especially the ones Anita was highlighting, it's patently obvious that female characters were hypersexualized with their typical attire and unrealistic body proportions. And it's even creepier when you account for the canonical age of many of these characters, and the thought of some greasy 30 year old drooling at a fictional teenager. But it's exactly what you'd expect from male-dominated video game developers catering exclusively to the lowest common denominator of straight male gamers. I guess these "anti-sjws" back then just hated the idea of games catering to anyone else. You know, that other 45% of gamers. We're not perfect nowadays either, but there has been progress at least.
The response should've been It's okay to have attractive characters within a video game and watch her videos entirely Which some didn't Most of the people who talk about it and listened to it were kids Most adults don't really have the time to go around and watch all of these videos and write hate comments Also, i dont know any hypersexualised minors in game I don't really care because "creepy" is not the same thing as immoral or unethical Developers should be allowed to implement whatever they want in a videogame
@@GibbDibbYou don’t consider drawing hypersexualized, barely clothed minors (children) for making a profit by selling it to men to lust after to be unethical or immoral? That’s an ethical, moral thing to do?
This is so good to watch. I absolutely adore your videos, they're well structured, well paced, your delivery is calm and not aggressive (which is so damn refreshing on youtube) and everything is well explained and argued. Fantastic job as always, thank you so much for all the work you do!
The fact that so many of us are former anti-sjw's who found the truth and changed our persepctives should give each of us a great deal of hope for ourselves and those in world around us.
Thunderfoot: "You claim not to like the male gaze, yet you wear fashionable clothing instead of barrels and empty potato sacks. Curious."
I mean if you look at the guy you can kinda start to think he doesn't understand the concept of "dressing nice for yourself to be comfortable. Fashion, style and makeup can be fun" Like is it that weird to him that people like to look well put together and might enjoy putting together good looking outfits. If women dressed nice just for male attention then why do so many of us dress up nicely with a fashionable outfit and makeup when we have girls dinner together at home... I personally spend about 1 hour getting ready in the morning, because I LIKE it, I think it's fun when I get compliments on my style from my friends, and I get happy when I walk by a mirror.
You can't be a REAL feminist if you don't live in a barrel like Diogenes.
@@admin-yo1ee the most based philosopher
@@Eris00i cool point and all but id rather not look at the guy
@@Eris00i Jordan Peterson has entered the chat 🙈
i now have to rethink every video by sargon of akkad, thunderf00t and the amazing atheist. Thanks for bursting me out of my bubble
Really?
really
Then I witnessed something truly majestic.
Thunderf00t cares more about pwnage than correctly representing an opponent's argument, and especially Anita seems to bring out the worst in him. TJ has always been a bit dishonest and a self-admitted piece of shit. Sargon doesn't take some things seriously enough to delve deeply into them, but he seems honest at least. These 3 channels may be the largest ones opposing Feminism, but they are certainly not the best in regards to argumentation or topical knowledge.
They're still funny though, and I would recommend them (with varying degrees of reservation). Just make sure that you take everything with a grain of salt, like you ALWAYS should.
If you say, watch other videos on this channel and similar ones about Sargon (like H.Bomberguy's Antifeminism vs FACTS) you'll see that Sargon is *ludicrously* lazy to the point of being dishonest.
What always weirds me out is how they describe Anita's innocuous "wine mum" outfits like their stripper clothes. Like if you see normal clothes so sexualised wtf.
Even if she did wear stripper clothes i dont see the hypocrisy, because, you could wear literally anything for any reason, you cant just look at an outfit and go “yeah, so, THIS is why your wearing that”
Tho if you do see someone dressed like there gonna rob a bank maybe be worried, but like, a midriff? Lipstick? Unless your a psychic i dont think you will know why they wear that
@@nerdwisdomyo9563 Midrift*
@@hectormunhoz5766 😭 i have actually failed as a person 😔
"And then there's Mei, who is lovely, amazing, and she is my friend" Pretty much sums up how we all feel about Mei.
If we’re all being sarcastic.
yes even me, the child of the dive meta, also loves mei
Mei op
a-mei-zing*
Just watched her into vid.
Cool.
I feel bad after watching this. I have always heard about Anita through lenses of someone else. I had never gone to watch her videos, I didn't feel the need to because obviously she totally sucks and is mean and unreasonable. To my utter surprise, I found out she can be pretty reasonable or at least bring up interesting points that are worth thinking about. I like a lot of what she said in the clips you played and have gone to watch some videos myself. I'm also a lady that plays and loves games, and her idea of having more diverse and out there female characters appear more often sounds fantastic to me! Just for the sole reason of making games stand out from one another. Also, I'm so damn bored with the damsel in distress storyline. I'm excited to see all these new games coming out that slap you across the face with how they break the mold! So sure, I don't always agree with Anita, but from what I've seen she's got some nice talking points and totally normal opinions on a lot of things. I can see how much cherry picking is done by those who cover her videos.
Shaun! You've done it again. You've made me feel like a big idiot. I always liked to think I was reasonable and could trust my sources but this video, and your one on cuphead have made me rethink everything. I am guilty of not doing my own research into certain topics. So thank you. You've made me a lot more mindful of how I get my information. Seriously, I really appreciate it.
Carl Brutananadalewski great comment! Happy to read it:)
I have to admit that I first heard about her by watching a thunderf00t video. I found him because of his creationism videos.
until recently I actually never heard some of her statements in the right context.
I think the real problem with her videos is simply that they are kinda boring. I've seen a lot of videos 'debunking' her and I just can't be bothered to watch the source material, so her critics get away with all sorts of bullshit. I'm glad someone is calling them out.
Well, she is talking about serious stuff. Shiny jump cuts and gags every few seconds don't really help when you want your talking points and subjects to be taken seriously. My favorite TH-cam critic is Noah Caldwell Gervais, and his videos are pretty much just game footage with his voice over with minimum editing. Sounds boring, but his texts are so well written and interesting, I want to focus on what he has to say.
@BaddeJimme did you just blame the victim? did you just blame the person they take out of context? if anything you are the "real problem" for not watching them.
"Hey, Thunderf00t, may I use your Phone for a second?"
"Okay, just let me do something really quick!"
(Deletes all 431 images of Anika Sarkeesian's midrift)
@@medexamtoolscom lol he said "male feminist" there are no true Male feminists, just beta cucks who are too intimated by women to get laid
@@medexamtoolscom and a new copypasta is born
@@hqdi6293 They deleted their comment. What was it?
*touches screen*
Something horrifying happened here
@@dewayner5388
Tread carefully....this is a place of stupidity.
I was once in the""skeptical" community crowd hating on feminism. Now that I have seen the other side, I know that what was presented was a distortion of reality. For now on, I'll be skeptical of the "skeptical" community.
Max Lightning I was the same way. Then after about a year I realized that I had been watching the same video every day over and over again, but it was being made by different people. The content just got painfully repetitive.
I will say that I still enjoy Chris ray gun and some black guy though. There are definitely people in or around that Community were way worse than others.
Same here, I was on the train until about a year ago when I stumbled on to hbomberguy talking about the armored skeptic's take on Bill Nye saves the world. Bubble was burst
Same dude.
the skeptical community was a big deal for me when i was losing my religion. I had a lot of anger and frustration and they gave voice to it. After decades of indoctrination, ridiculing faith traditions was welcome catharsis. I don't blame people for being in that headspace at all. However, it's not a healthy place to get stuck long term. After awhile the appeal of pwnage wears off and you see the glaring flaws in their arguments and strange fixation on people like anita. This is "pop skepticism". Stuff to get a reaction from viewers rather than persuade rationally. It's a community that helped me process my feelings coming out of religion, but i quickly outgrew it.
Like many other people, I got into the yt skeptic community while deconverting from religion. Thankfully, my channel of choice was always TBR, now Hugo and Jake. I watched a few TAA/Armored Skeptic/Sargon videos, but once I'd thoroughly deconverted, the usual "apologetics breakdown" video seemed repetitive. Hugo and Jake had a different style that was more entertaining (reviewing Christian movies and reading the Christian bible), so I stuck with them. Though they seem to try to stay out of skeptic community drama for the most part, they've criticized the alt-right wave on several occasions and are both themselves pretty far left. I think that probably influenced the fact that I didn't really get suckered into the right wave in the YT skeptic community though in many ways I'm a prime candidate. I got bored with everyone else before they started swinging right.
With regards to the tangent Thunderf00t went off on about Sarkeesian's clothes and make-up, it's worth noting that trying to exonerate a badly-designed outfit on a female character by criticising the fashion choices of an actual woman is completely ridiculous. There's a big distinction between an actual, real-life woman choosing to wear what she would like to wear, and a graphic designer creating an outfit for a character that they think would be appealing to an audience.
This is a good point and something I should have went into.
+Shaun and Jen, iit's impossible to get everything in there. Your video would be several hours long if you picked apart everything from every angle. But I agree, CubeJackal's point is astute.
So, just give FICTIONAL CHARACTERS FREE WILL SO THEY CAN DRESS HOWEVER THEY WANT? Is that what you are proposing?
No vic, he's obviously not and you know that.
Tavi ! Designers have creative freedom, If you don't like scantily clad women do not play/watch content with them, I personally see nothing wrong depending on the theme of the content, obviously It's laughable when something with a ''serious'' theme includes It, but I don't see anything wrong with sex, or sexualized characters, be they female or male. His argument is stupid.
my god if i actually watched her videos i may have being able to avoid that embarrassing anti-SJW phase .
Terrax
same sadly
Never a good idea to judge someone based solely on what other people say about them...particularly people who clearly hate them.
@Mr. TA says the incel
(´ｰ｀) man I’m really glad I kept that phase to myself
@Mr. TA you don't know Terrax personally, how are you supposed to know hes in embarrassment now? His life could of been changed by switching sides and you don't know it.
The bit where thunderfoot goes off on her wearing... "red-coloured lipstick to imply AROUSAL" and descends into this big rant, like... that's just the level of makeup most women wear if they're going out or, say, filming a video series. My mum wears fuckn lipstick, is my fifty year old mother sexually misleading on the people in her department by going to work with eyeliner?
Guys thinking every part of a woman's appearance is a conscious decision catered to make pique their interest for consumption, shaking my head.
Red lips simulating arousal is why we like the colour.
NOT why people necessarily wear the red lipstick.
Mandrills have blue butts. If i wear blue lipstick am i trying to simulate a baboon's butt?
nope.
"Here is why make up on women, is their reason to AROUSE so many-"
Or they just, feel comfy or like it, makes them feel safe secured since society degrades them for NOT wearing it but nah, it's always about jack and his off course ain't it?
So many people who make this argument about arousal ignore that red also makes you look more alive and less tired looking, which is kind of something a lot of people want in general especially if they're in front of an audience.
Yeah, also stage actors regardless of gender all wear make-up so that people in the back rows can better see the expressions on their faces
that bit about lipstick is something Jordan Peterson has also said before, idk if he was the first person to say it but I wouldn't doubt Thunderf00t is a fan of Peterson.
"You'd really think after so much arguing against Anita, thunderfOOt would be better at it." How can you destroy someone and yet sound so polite?
Brits, man
First time I saw that "Everything is sexist" clip, I immediately went: "That has _got_ to be taken out of context." So I found the whole video, and wouldn't you know it...
It’s really the only one in this video that is OBVIOUSLY taken out of context. Like, she uses a sarcastic tone and people in Thunderfoot’s comments actually believe she thinks it
@@gavinj1456 And she's smiling/laughing about it! If she was 100% serious, as portrayed, like...wouldn't she be taking it a little more serious??
Because it is a serious subject.
Everyone is taking her more seriously than she is, it's weird. You think they'd stop for 2 seconds and realize that they were clearly interpreting it differently.
years later I am still getting this quote thrown at me whenever I mention Anita. It's incredibly sad at this point
Same here. I'm not even neurotypical but it was pretty clear to me that she wasn't giving people instructions. It just seems weird to even try to pass off something that's so clearly an anecdote as something it's not
"I encourage you to watch Thunderf00t's video" You monster.
I don't think I could stand him for more than 3 minutes without breaking my monitor.
do fact scar you that much scare?
No, I just fucking hate when a person who became famous for "destroying" denialists became a denialist himself.
Please send all of your weird biased garbage videos to Shaun so I can watch him pick them apart, thank you.
_"do fact scar you that much scare?"_
...wut?
Hbomberguy sent me here!
Really well argued, nicely put together. I liked your relaxed tone and that your jokes arise naturally. Always glad to see well done reactions to those people.
i like the hbomb man
aaaaah, a fellow spengler.
Same here, dude!
I came here from Contrapoints, but hbomberguy is great! 👍
I think the best thing about Shaun is that, unlike almost everyone Shaun speaks of, he doesn't encourage a violent nature at all. And i don't just mean misogyny or discrimination. A lot of these people making commentaries on youtube, have this horrible habit of expressing strong negative feelings in their videos, not just in a form of opinion, but in a form of encouragement to the viewer. I can remember how i wanted bad things to happen to whoever was being spoken of whenever I saw a video coming from someone like Naked Ape for example. However, Shaun's videos are all so calm and slow in how they criticize, that even when he talks about a horrible fascist on his videos, I'm not encouraged to go out of my way to hurt them or say bad things about them. It's so strange but small details like those can really make the difference between a video that wants to hurt and attack someone, and a video that wants you to learn from their mistakes. I couldn't be more glad to have found this channel.
Shaun is being quite polite in referring to Thunderfoot's behavior as just cherry picking and not just straight up malicious bullying.
Agreed.
CrazyReii How is she a con-artist?
@@dashisneat I've heard she had some kind of a ridiculous fundraiser with a goal that was way too high. Something about making a video series and not releasing that many videos afterwards, or at least being super late.
The Fox Nope. The goal was only 25k. She got a lot more than she initially asked for, so it took longer because if she did the same amount of work, then she basically would be walking away with the rest of the money. Even if she asked for too much to begin with, and took to long to deliver, it wouldn’t make her a con-artist.
CrazyReii why do you have that profile picture and are also subscribed to Three Arrows but also subscribed to ShoeonHead?
Why does thunderf00t say Anita has a "presumably straight male" audience? That's certainly not his opinion? His stereotype of "SJWs" is mostly feminist women and LGBT people? It's not hard to find him implying or even directly stating that her audience is an echo chamber of women? (The answer is that he's massively dishonest)
I think the implication he's going for is that most of her fans are just a bunch of White Knights SJews.
Given that he presents her SJW fans are typically not straight, white, cis men it really seems he's makign the assumption that most of the people in her audience are straight, white, cis men
implying he sees that as the default
which is exactly what he's saying people don't do
@June I'd give you a thumbs up for the sentiment, but the fact that you have four question marks in your post that only has one question in it is bugging my OCD.
Agree or disagree with what Anita is saying, she does form well though out arguments for her positions, and it's unfair of her detractors to purposefully cherrypick and edit her videos to make it seem as though she doesn't.
If you believe what she is saying is objectively false, then you should be able to effectively argue against her without resorting to such slimey tactics.
When I first heard her arguments via all these TH-camrs, I kinda thought she was a bit daft. It wasn't til I actually watched some of her vids that I heard what she was saying properly. And a lot of it makes sense. I've been gaming sinc eI was 5. Thats over 30 years gaming. I've seen a lot of games (And missed even more ha ha) and a lot of her point ring true. There is a lot of over sexualization of characters in games which is fine, but theres very little of the other side to balance it out. There even hyper sexualized characters who actually have great character (females I mean).
Which is my problem. I could not argue against her points cos they aligned with what I've seen. My only conclusion is that the folk saying she's wrong have never objectively looked at games or have simply not played for long enough or enough different games to realise there is this imbalance.
kudosbudo What imbalance? She cherry picked a few games out of thousands. The vast majority of video games that have a decent player base now and even back then don’t oversexualize females and give them adequate representation. She was making a meal out of a small issue for clicks and cash
The Joker I think she would've faded into obscurity if it weren't for the huge backlash against her
The Seal Yeah she probably would of been irrelevant if people didn’t debunk her time and time again
The Joker do you believe that conventionally attractive male characters are just as over sexualized as conventionally attractive female characters?
One thing I live about the lefty pantheon is the diversity of style, with Thought Slime's sewer, Hbomberguy's constant irreverent jokes and editing humor, Philosophy Tube and his sexualization of himself and theatre, Contrapoints doing also that but with more memes, and then we have Shaun, a man so dry that he starts videos like "this is a video about thunderf00t". What I love particularly about Shaun is that he speaks in exactly the same tone whether joking or serious, so his jokes surprise me and make me laugh even more.
I love Shaun's demeanor. He just seems like a pleasant guy to spend time with.
I love the term “leftie pantheon” :P
Shaun's "hello everyone" just instantly relaxes me
And three arrows.
And Sarcasmitron. That guy deserves a HELL of a lot more subs.
urgh ... im starting to get a sinking feeling that ive got a lot of egg on my face and i am just about realise my balls are on display for the world to see .... i am being deprogrammed and finding out "the rationales" are doing things for that sweet youtube money or fame ... a friend of mine warned me youtubers were a bit nuts and sway arguments for views and your videos are showing that... thank you for your time on explaining these things.
"The rationales" made their entire careers and community out of pushing "skepticism" as a lifestyle brand without ever actually being skeptical or expecting it of their audience. They always believe without question anything the "in-group" says that conforms the narrative about the "out-group", and questioning said narrative gets you ostracized.
Glad you got out, and hope you kept out. There's a lot to learn out there as an _actual_ skeptic rather than the closed-minded lifestyle brand variant.
My favorite Thunderf00t cherrypick is still the one where Anita talks about how she loves games like Papo & Yo and how it isn't fun in the conventional sense. I like games like that too that are deeply engaging but aim for a non-euphoric experience, This War of Mine being an example. But Thunderf00t shouts "AHA! There you have it! Anita Sarkeesian wants games to not be fun!" Even in the context he presents in his own video it's an obvious strawman but that still doesn't seem to be enough to sink his credibility with his fans.
He just wants that "gotcha" moment so badly.
I was a fan, and it sunk his credibility with me. It was a weird downward spiral, from his high point of poking fun at creationists to a really uninformed theory about Yahweh being a volcano-god (IIRC the consensus is he's a storm god), to a fight with P.Z. Meyers, to pretty much the first video or two on Anita and I was out.
And that was for thinking he was wrong. I didn't realize until this video just how dishonest he was being. Those quote-mines would make a Creationist blush!
@@dvol Yahweh in Exodus presents as a Volcano God. Yahweh later in the book evolved into a wind/storm god.
I absolutely lost it when even his own fans think he talks about Anita Sarkesian too much 😂
Jesus Christ, i really need to thank T1J for sending me in your direction. Do you have any idea of how much of a rarity you are? A youtuber who actually thinks his points through AND does research?!
Did i die and went to heaven?
Keep up the good work man, cheers from Brazil!
If you like this, I would suggest watching Garrett as well. He also does a lot of research and thinks through his points. I actually came here because Garrett did a mirror of another one of Shaun and Jen's videos.
I just looked him up and i'm pretty sure i'll subscribe! It's always cool to find people with sense on youtube, so thanks!
H Bomberguy makes really good videos and makes fun of the same crowd.
Just checked him out as well, dude's hilarious! Thanks!
" Have you watched ant Teal Deer?" Hahahaha. Great joke!
At this point, it seems like Thunderfoot argues with the version of Anita Sarkeesian that he has invented over a dozen videos. The actual content of her videos is pretty irrelevant to his audience, as evidenced by the fact that a ton of them don't bother watching her videos.
nether do her fans
Okay I've been seeing you throughout the comments here and I have to ask, do you bother proofreading your comments before posting them? Like every post I've seen from you includes at least one or two words that you misspelled and either ignored or tried to correct with spell check only to get the wrong word (Like with "Nether" here rather than the grammatically correct "Neither". Like seriously you have to be TRYING this hard to have so many typos.
***** is called dysgraphia
What, do you work for a publishing company and not able to clock out of work, or something? Making you get a spasm every time you see something spelled wrong? Maybe hanging out at the youtube comment section isn't the best idea then. I mean you clearly understand what he's trying to write so it shouldn't be hard to just ignore a missed "i". Maybe he's not "TRYING" to spell stuff wrong, but rather english isn't his native language. Maybe he's young and learning. Here you go Necromancer1230, have an internet point for being such an infallible human being with perfect grammar.
It's called brain damage
You know just from casual viewing on TH-cam I’d developed an image of Sarkeesian which wasn’t real. I’m actually a bit angry at a lot of TH-cam content creators for misleading me about her views. For the last few years I’ve been primed to wince when her name is mentioned because of TH-cam creators who bought into people like Sargon & thunderfoot’s BS.
sonic123488 Yes. I understand exactly how you feel. The TH-cam community has been very manipulative and dishonest. It's pretty upsetting.
Admittedly, I know little about her, but damn, it seems the hatred has been blown wayyyyy out of proportion.
It was funny. I heard of her. Watched her. All her vids. And kinda agreed with most of the points. I've played games for a long ass time, and a variety of games. It was just something I'd never sat down and thought about. What gets me more is when i watched the skeptics vids and it becomes painfully clear that very few of them have played all that many games. And none of them know anything about any of the more advanced tricks in many games. All while mainting this image of themselves as "hardcore" gamers.
Same here, I was never a feminism hater but I was certainly convinced that Anita was a con-woman
I thank people like Shaun for conditioning me out of it
@@linohugo97 So how do you know, you're not conned again? Gonna have to do the hard work and actually develop an opinion on your own.
It's kinda satisfying to see that the boys who boarded themselves up in treehouses and put out a "No Girls Allowed" sign never actually grew up.
This comment is the purest form of stupidity
I don't think you understand third wave feminisim
It's more sad than anything. It's better to see someone thrive, than to see them fail. Imagine if Thundef00t's channel didn't exist, but the man himself wasn't so hateful? I think that's better than what we have currently.
@@thelordofsouls8459 yes yours is
I love the double think in these comments sections. “Oh, look at BPS, what an INCEL, can’t even get a girl! Had to “migrate” *hurp durp* to JAPAN to bang that cute waifu! Nobody wants him here, tee her!” “Oh, they don’t want girls, Stupid misogynists! Just like little boys in GROsS clubs, they didn’t ditch us we ditched them, amirite girls?!” Bunch of single cat-women pretending they turned down all these doting alt-right suitors lol
My theory is that thunderf00tfetish has been cursed by a bog witch and now has to make at least one video about Anita Sarkeesian every month or he fucking dies
"And there's Mei who's lovely and amazing, and she's my friend."
That was so wholesome it made me sob.
I know, right? I listened to it several times!
Manslaughter or mans laughter?
Meaning he friendzoned her because she's fat
OMG... That context on "Everything is Sexist. Everything is Racist. Everything is Homophobic".
Thank you! You're a gem.
...but Michael she still talking about the facts of "systems" which is a core principle of feminism. Yeah they are having a laugh about it, but it's still their own philosophy that they promote. All it proves is that they know how ridiculous their own bullshit is.
When you learn about something new and exciting, it's pretty common to connect it to everything around you.
When it's an abstraction, it's even easier.
She is laughing AT her younger self, using 'everything' and 'all' to underscore her overblown perception.
You might have an argument if not for the context of the career she has made out of calling all sorts of banal things sexist.
This probably won't get seen but for anyone reading these replies:
The point she was making was that when she was learning about systems she started seeing it everywhere, but she was self-admittedly wrong. But there is sexism in the world, and she feels strongly that the gaming industry has some issues regarding sexism. Her content is to show her belief, and she makes a living off of that. That doesn't mean she's "calling all sorts of banal things sexist", she's pointing out things that are overtly sexist, but also things that could be considered problematic. As Shaun's video shows, context is very important. Don't just read someone say "she's calling everything sexist REEEEE" and then assume they are right. Watch some of her content and come to your own conclusion.
I know everyone has the kneejerk reaction of "I just want to play games, don't ruin this for me." It's okay to enjoy games and acknowledge sexism at the same time.
Well, she left it conveniently open ended though. Left to the interpretation of her audience of rabid feminists whether she was wrong. She jokes but doesn't have the courage to say what isn't sexist. Is there anything she could say that wouldn't offend someone is such an audience. I think not.
Whenever I watch Anita Sarkeesian or other Feminist Frequency videos I always end up thinking that they're just so... reasonable? Like, well structured, measured arguments that make sense backed up with lots of examples and evidence? I never understand how people could turn to white hot rage at such calm and thoughtful videos (well, of course I do understand why...)
why in the end her arguments are just the same shit
depictions of (____a____) in(____b____) reinforces (_____c____)
Patricia Pulling (a);satanic imagery (b) D&D (c)Satanism,
Fredric Wrentham (a) violence (b) comics (c) violence,
Will H Hays (a)what ever is in the Hays Code (b) movies (c) moral decay,
Jack Thompson a) violence (b) video games (c) violence,
Anita Sarkeesian (a) sexism (b) video games (c) sexism,
Tyler Basile me thinks you don’t understand the difference between “causes” and “reinforces”.
Most of self proclaimed sceptics don't watch the source material they criticise. It'd take too much effort so any sargon will do as an intellectual shortcut they need.
Honestly I've never watched them -- I assumed she was an idiot with bad points and was a bully who wanted to ruin video games -- but these clips are making me think she actually just seems . . . pleasant. And interesting. And not saying anything especially radical or controversial. I was promised a shrill rage harpy calling everything sexist and I'm quite disappointed to see a normal woman talking about things she finds interesting.
@@trip9845
Depictions of "Feminism" in "TH-cam videos" reinforces "political correctness"
Depictions of "wider context" in "games journalism" reinforces "preachiness"
Depictions of "gamers" in "public" reinforces "humilating stereotypes about gamers"
Depictions of "bad arguments" in "comment sections" reinforces "my cynical outlook on the regressive nature of global politicial trends"
When Anita began her series “Tropes vs. Women in gaming” l was in a pretty impressionable stage in my life and a close and trusted friend of mine showed it to me, but not before thoroughly poisoning the well and directing me toward negative responses that people were having toward her. I was, l am ashamed to say, convinced that Anita was an unreasonable person trying to censor the games l love for some dubious purpose I never fully conceptualized. I am doubly ashamed to say l also found and became a subscriber of Thunderf00t’s. Talk about a bad aftertaste. It’s been a long journey, but after much introspection and delving into sociology with strong intentionality to remove previous biases I had accepted into myself, l seriously respect Anita’s position and her work here. Among other things, I unapologetically identify as a feminist, a word I would previously avoid. I don’t necessarily agree with all of Anita’s statements, but l support her message and appreciate all the work she’s done to that end. I love videogames, and l want them to be a medium everyone else can love as well.
18:48 Ah, the inevitable part of a Tf00T response to FemFreq where he goes Full Frollo over Anita.
Choose me or
Your pyre
Be mine or you will burn!!! ♫♫
*is now picturing thunderf00t sniffing Anita's hair* ...gross
Maybe that's why his voice starts to take on a slight hysterical giggle the more he describes her make up and clothing. I'm sure after every video he created about Anita, he would wear a hair shirt for penance for his confused feelings of arousal and self-loathing.
HerrMasterLizard That....that was beautiful!
HerrMasterLizard *standing ovation* Bravo! Brilliant!
Does he actually think the Rockstar logo is an R rating
Does he know video games aren't rated the way movies are
Holy shit
Maybe this needs to be added to "Halo is a Playstation game" or that time he mispronounced Tyrion Lannister's name.
Blond Panda Yah, it's a sneaking suspicion that I get myself. Like, if you look on the TVTropes page for the guy, there's an entry for "One of Us," saying that he's an avid player of Unreal Tournament. At first my response to that is "which one?", but on second thought, whichever installment of the series it is, it isn't exactly a hopping playerbase.
It's at 16:17, for those wondering.
I had completely missed that.
My god.
+Thom Avella, your comment is a prime example of cherry picking. All those other arrows pointed to the rating icon (and you notice, directly above the GTA title, the arrow is pointing to not the Rockstar logo, but the rating icon on Red Dead Redemption?). But you pick the *only* one that isn't?
Dude what Anita had to say about League and the variety of male body typed and _how their appeal had nothing to do with how sexually attractive their bodies are_ really hit me. Like, it is true. There are plenty of lovable men in video games who aren’t particularly attractive…but women? Not so much
Don’t forget about that blizzcon where a woman asked for some non-hyper sexualized female characters that didn’t look like they “ just stepped out of a Victoria’s Secret catalogue” only for one of the nobs on the panel to ask back, “well what catalogue would you prefer they step out of”
There's a ton of oversexualized men in media. I agree, though, that women don't have much representation of the less sexual kind in video games. There are some notables that break it, but its still a problem.
@@SeriesOC the problem is the relative amount. Of all male characters at worst 30% are oversexualized. Of female characters it would be closer to 80%.
Hell, if a game introduces women who arent conventionally attractive and also arent played off as jokes people get downright MAD at their existence!
YES. same with anime, like, one piece, there are so many goofy looking lovable guys, but women? I can LITERALLY only think of ONE! ONE!! its ridiculous.
How far he has fallen...he's using the same kind of dishonest methods as the Creationists he once criticized.
no he is not he just change from criticizing one dogmatic belief to criticizing that are the ones who do use the same kind of dishonest methods as the Creationists
AvengingMikon are you prospecting by any chains?
AvengingMikon i just have dysgraphia
or you just believe in bullshit so heavy you are just are incapable of understanding any thing that is not sporting your ideologue
Please give a logical reason that Thunderf00t would have for taking Anita out of context that would completely reverse the actual meaning of the statement. I submit no such rationale exists, and the only possible reason is that TF is applying a mere veneer of rationality to a subject he is acting emotionally over. Which is the same as the creationists he formerly engaged with.
AvengingMikon he is not taking Anita out of context her argument are just bat shit
the "SJW's are stupid" goldmine is starting to dry up it seems.
More like a pyrite mine. *Ba dum, tsh
it was a fad that lasted less than a decade, and the content creators are upset because they thought it was an easy ride living off recording themselves knocking down self-erected strawmen.
heh heh... self-erected...
Erected
...until I saw this comment section.
Damn, this has made me rethink Anita. Now I just feel bad about how some of us gamers have treated her. Thank you for this.
The way Thunderf00t talks about Jade with her "pancake-flat midrift" makes me cringe and shudder
Yeah it’s not even about me and I’m uncomfy
Thunderf00t's obsession with Anita is downright creepy and i stopped watching him back in 2015. I can't imagine what its like now.
not much Anita, but too much feminism and too little science and too much solar roadways, Hyperloop and Fontus.
For what it's worth, now he just harps on bad science--things like debunking the idea of solar roadways, Elon Musk's Hyperloop, and that sort of thing. It's usually backed by solid physics, but also sort of downplays the idea that science is progressive--that being, in 2000 there were a large number of people who believed the largest hard drive you could ever produce would be 8 GB. I have more RAM than that nowadays, and have entire terrabytes devoted to the bullshit I do when I'm being unproductive. He's right... for now. But he's incorrect in that he assumes that, because the technology is shit now, that it always will be. In some cases (solar roadways) he's probably correct, because it's based entirely in modern tech and not in realistic models of what could be developed with proper funding. In others, he's perhaps wrong--I specifically think of the Hyperloop because, while the general idea is pretty solid, it mostly pertains to our ability to complete such an idea currently--but he provides solid ideas as to why he's wrong.
Ever since he divorced himself from this drama, social justice shit he has been pretty cool. Also bought a phantom camera, so occasionally you get some awesome slow-motion photography, the likes of which Slow-Mo Guys will never cover because Gavin is more into explosions and whatnot :)
Well you can start watching him again, he's mostly left Anita alone now.
VLOGeneric's Rants that's a shame maybe he finally asked her out and no mas
I was super-excited when Thunderf00t joined FreeThought Blogs, because I really liked TF and I liked the blog network. And then, his blog posts were absolute trainwrecks (seriously, they were grammarless rants); I think he made two or three before being kicked from the network. And then his TH-cam channel became massively antifeminist and I just gave up on him.
I never, ever, ever want to hear Thunderf00t say the word 'arousal' again for the rest of my life....
[shudders]
I owe Anita Sarkesian an apology. I never really followed thunderf00t's anti-feminism but I thought he was above such obvious quote mining. Thanks for pointing it out.
Reading these comments, its amazing to see how you've influenced people into reconsidering their own thinking. Thank you so much for all of your hard work
"Talking about problematic things in a game doesn't mean you have to hate it"
Good lord, if there was one thing I wish I could instill in those gamergate knuckleheads it would be that. For some reason there is this absolute monster backlash from the altier rightier "gamer" crowd where they react to any form of criticism as if it is equivalent to hating a game or refusing to buy it or demanding it not be sold or however far they want to go in their crazy strawman. Critique, including feminist critique, doesn't in any way imply that the story of whatever you are dealing with is abhorrent, it means it could be better. Every single feminist I have ever met in my life, including myself, enjoys more than a few problematic stories. Sometimes DEEPLY problematic stories.
There is no reason for the chicken little routine when something you like is critiqued! Good things can be critiqued! You can enjoy things that get elements of their design wrong! Why is this so incomprehensible to some people?
'imply arousal' brb dry heaving.
to quote Jim Motherf**king Sterling, "POUNDING IT... POUNDING IT... POUNDING IT..."
Calinas the Necromancer "I'm gonna fuck this later." - Jim Sterling
You have an excellently pleasing and calm voice, it's as if you could remain level headed if you walked in on a dolphin having its way with your dog and be like "Oh, well I guess this is happening, and here are some points as to why."
Back when I was still angry, drinking a lot and watching ppl like TF, Sargon etc. I never bothered watching Anita's videos or searching for different perspectives that could have altered my view. I already "knew" what kind of a person she was so why should I? This was quite a while ago and I never gave that shit much thought again - only recently did I start actually challenging the views I actively held back then: Anita is definitely more competent and constructive than the version of her I held some weird, constructed grudge against. Thanks for this video, Shaun.
I actually did watch her videos and they confirmed it. She does say crazy stuff.
She also sometimes does make good points though, no way denying that.
@@Pfuscher1000 Anita , from what I have seen has some of the most lukewarm takes.
the comment about her red lipstick was SO creepy like. christ
I’ve never watched Anita, and nor do I really plan to that much in the future, but I’ve only heard bad things about her. She’s always been described as some mad SJW who hates all video games and men (obviously I didn’t believe any of it, I’ve just never heard anything good about her). But after watching this video she just seems like a genuinely nice and intelligent person
"so says Charles Darwin- oh *audible excitement*, Charles Darwin!" is such an underrated joke
Its funny cos shaun never changes tone
@@zac5572 he really is master of equanimity
I read that as "* audible excrement *"
@@randomnessrules4971 Very loud shit
He loves her, but doesn't have the social intelligence to understand his feelings so he's making "fun" of her like a fifth grader.
Katherine Keirns I do think it should stop. I think czeckie is just point out thats what he is doing. He has feeling, he doesn’t know what to do, so he is reverting back to his fifth grade way of approaching girls. A lot of us agree it’s something that needs to change.
its kind of creepy what all of yous are doing. thunderf00t makes trash/boring content but gets a lot of views for every anita video he makes and bashing on anita is easy. so, he continues making those vids. im honestly more worried about you two unnaturally manufacturing this gross (and strangely detailed) story in your minds making a man out to be some kind of abuser or creep who "cant understand his feelings and is in love" and so he is bullying a girl as a way to get her attention. it was so easy for you two to create this conspiracy and seemingly believe in it without a doubt, with the only evidence being that he makes a lot of videos bashing on her (following that logic i guess half of the anti-sjw youtube community secretly want steve shives dick). it speaks more about your mental health then thuderf00ts. please don't ever do that again.
THUNDERF00T (as child in playground): *throws mud at Anita* YOUVE GOT COOTIES! Also will you go to the dance with me pleaaaaaase
Basically a total tsundere
Katherine Keirns its quite funny tho isnt it?
I used to watch thunderf00t because he'd debunk kickstarter scams by pointing out the flaws in their science, but i slowly lost interest in him because he always seemed incredibly vitriolic and patronizing to the point of it being offputting. I never knew about his bizarre obsession with this one woman, on whom his videos are somehow even more spiteful and condescending.
same, he kind of got stuck doint the same thing over and over again. like, we got it by the second video that solar roadways was bullshit, don't need five more to beat that dead horse
Same for me.
Thunderf00t was the first TH-cam channel I subscribed to. I was a bit of a militant atheist at the time. I used to get banned from video game forums for breaking the rule against discussing religion. I felt a constant need to attack religion. So Thunderf00t's content was exactly what I was looking for in High School.
But I felt uneasy about the shift toward attacking feminism. Something didn't sit right with me about it. After a few years of putting out that bullshit content I finally sifted through the minutia of watching all the videos he was "debunking". I discovered that he was viciously lying. And what he was doing was much worse than what's in this video.
I saw a video where he cherry picked something Rebecca Watson said and then mocked her being worried about her physical safety. It turned out that Phil edited out the part of the video where she said that a man sent her a message saying he was going to find her at a convention and sexually assault her. To me, that goes beyond a typical cherry pick. I can excuse Phil's behavior on display in this video to some extent. But I cannot excuse that. He viciously smeared a woman for taking measures to protected herself from a threat of physical violence. I sincerely believe Phil Mason is a sociopath.
Now he's fucking with billionaires. I'm happy
Good god, Thunderf00t's even more ridiculous than I remember him.
I didn't even think he was relevant anymore! lol
paperbackwriter1111 his debunking of New inventions on kockstarter are pretty good.....he just needs to stick with talking about science
Geoffrey Russo Oh, like that Solar Roadway con? That was pretty good
paperbackwriter1111 or the hyperloop or the self filling water bottle or plastic roads...hes not bad when it comes to science.
Welll, the hyperloop "debunk" was not that convincing.
I love how he ends with Sarkeesian talking about straw feminists, in a video in which he's been strawmanning her the whole time.
when is he strawmanning her?
A more apt question would be "When is he *not* strawmanning her?"
Tweevle let me answer that question when dos she ever have fact to back up her claims
answer never
#WheresAnitasCamels
Tweevle sorry i miss misspelled
Thunderf00t: “midrift”
Paul Joseph Watson: “millimetre”
Same energy.
what's wrong with millimetre?
@@GodOfTheInternets The word was “milli*letre*” and Paul, despite having the word right in front of him, said “millimetre”.
@@cosmicjenny4508 ah, thanks.
"...like a cartoon robot trying to divide by zero". Lol
THANK YOU!
I quit watching Thunderf00t when he lost his mind and went on this anti-feminist bender a few years ago. I appreciate you taking the time to put together this video pointing out so much of his illogical, foaming at the mouth, misogynist nonsense.
I had considered doing something similar myself, but then I would have had to subject myself to that horrid part of humanity which thinks that "feminism", which basically means equal rights for both genders, is a bad word. I applaud your stamina.
Feminism is about equal rights for both SEXES, not genders. Many feminists consider gender roles to be stereotypes that are harmful and limiting for everyone concerned.
@@laurawarman6695 there's a huge difference between sex, gender and gender roles. please educate yourself on this before you misinform others.
@@laurawarman6695 terfs don't get to redefine what feminism is, sorry
@@MichaelTheAwesome32 misogynists have been trying to redefine feminism forever. This is just another failed attempt to do so.
the audacity to twist a woman’s statements about gatekeeping in the gaming community to make fun of her for “not liking real games” is insane
Jesus, he's really really creepy.
I'll say.
He has quite possibly the most unpleasant voice I've ever heard. I really struggled to get through this one.
I laughed out loud at that comma just slowly flying in.
10:07 :)
***** No prob!
*apostrophe
Yes, that. :p
Even though it's been a year I feel compelled to let you know that it's an apostrophe and not a comma.
I was right there with Thunderf00t, Bearing, Sargon, and all the other anti-SJW people on TH-cam until Trump became president. It forced me to take a hard look at what I was advocating, and I realized it was crap.
Curiously, he also hates Trump.
@@rafaeloda And Brexit. I think Thunderf00t is still interesting, but something went very wrong with the Sarkesian videos.
Comments like this partially restore my faith in humanity
Glad to hear! I'm just glad you looked inward. I know it can be hard.
@@rafaeloda
Trump ain't no fan of the sjw.
8:05 is the audio not matching her speech because of thunderf00t's horrible editing?
hey so you think that shaun viedo
christian nichols what?
Yeah, he's attempting to connect his points by dubbing over her audio from that video with audio from ANOTHER video.
oh shit knowing better whats up dude I love your videos and thanks for serving I love you bro
Damn man, props on watching good content on TH-cam. I love seeing other TH-camrs supporting some of my favorite political channels.
I love the lackadaisical style of the narration. It creates a sense of effortlessness that is very charming :)
i'll admit i got misled, i feel bad for Anita
Same, I bought into some bad shit about her even though I never quite bought into the Gamergate bullshit to begin with :/
I too kind of fit in with you two. I never thought of her as bad but just didn't know how evil and stupid gamer men were about her. They made her look like the devil when she's just some lady who wants society to be better... How is that so fuckin bad again?
It's almost like Gamergate was built on lies and bullshit so a bunch of neckbeards could have 2-minute hate sessions against women because they hate their mums.
Anita should be able to say anything she likes without any dissent or criticism. How dare these people disagree with a woman!
We must simply listen and believe, no exceptions.
@@thirdpowerful1 strawman. The OP didn't say that.
Sigh, I miss the days when Thunderf00t argued against fallacious arguments, quote-mining, and fanaticism instead of being the very evil he set out to combat. The guy has a phd in chemistry for goodness sake, so you know the guy was trained to do actual research and to put in hard work to formulate an argument. I just don't understand how he allowed topics like feminism and Islam to drive him to make some very dishonest and caustic videos.
he still is and the make some very dishonest and caustic videos is anita
+Thay Reads Don't bother, Tyler is a blithering idiot that spams his shit on every thread.
TheArtkaw ha you calling some one else a blithering idiot that a laugh
I would say the feminist and SJWs that have tried to DOX him and try to get him fired REPEATEDLY, is why he is a bit salty at that particular group.
"how he allowed topics like feminism and Islam to drive him to make some very dishonest and caustic videos."
Your opinion and that's fine.
My opinion is feminism and Islam are dishonest and caustic.
Also you miss the days when he picked on creationists, I mean Christianity, I mean, you mean Christianity, right??
So Islam is off limits, is that what you are saying?
as a fan of thunderf00t I appreciate this video as I was guilty of not watching the original video. thunderf00t was misrepresenting Anitas argument either intentionally or otherwise. just because someone is pointing out flaws in someone you follow doesn't mean it's a bad video(I'm looking at the 900 people who downvoted).
I love how you can build a whole channel out of "Well someone in the alt-right just posted a popular video, guess I'll debunk it by... checking the sources they use."
Like what other group is dumb enough to use sources that discredit their very argument?
To their credit they do know their core audience either doesn't want to read or cant
Creationists do this as well. Ironically, considering who this video debunks.
@@paulelkin3531 - Flat earthers as well. Though when it comes to creationists and flat earthers, they tend to do it a bit less often because they rarely cite sources to begin with.
@@KingBobXVI To be honest, most of the conspiratorial groups can be counted here. I just figured creationists were important to note over the others given thunderfoot's history.
I wouldn't call Thunberf00t Alt Right at all.
Seems to me like u haven't watched any of the guys videos and our basing your opinion of him on this single exert.
I doubt you went and checked the sources. Watched each individual video so why on earth are you criticising others.
Alt right?? Thunderfoot is very left. Just cause he hates Anita with a passion doesn't mean he's right.
Hearing Thunderfoot say "beautiful body" and "fantastic pancake flat midriff" made my fucking skin crawl. Ugh.
Many years later, the cringe is still real. 😬
byee he sounds like those male writers writing about women 😭😭
Wow that's a lot of intellectual dishonesty from a "skeptical" person
I love how Philip tries to disprove Anita by saying “they sexualize men too!” And he shows a collage with Michael Townely. Someone who is constantly mocked for gaining weight as he’s gotten older
I came here from hbomberman and it's a great video.
Also, nice use of a skull as your background here... it's like a meta commentary on the anti-feminists who HAVE skulls in their videos.
that's actually his logo, it shows up in his discussions about gaming or what have you as well
Jesus Christ! Could Tfoot's thumbails be any more clickbait-y?
He's open to suggestions if you have any ideas.
Guido Bos
Has anyone suggested he stop talking about Anita Sarkeesian?
Have more arrows?
Yes, but not by much...
Art contest?
*sigh......
My gosh.....perhaps I should've watched Sarkeesian's videos before being dragged to the pits of anti-feminist hell, by TH-camrs such as Thunderf00t.
Thunderf00t is a creep.
hotelmario510 i read the word creep on here 15 times now.
way to exploit a sex negative, gendershaming, lookist, essentially vacuous favorite feminist insult, lying hypocrite.
"and then there's mei, who's lovely and amazing and she's my friend"
"First off here, Thunderf00t... Phillip, what the fuck, man? Are you doing okay, like, in general? Everything going alright over there? Because thats some weird shit you just did there."
Best reaction, ever.
Nothing to add. Just wanted to comment as a way to bookmark the quote because I love it.
@@CubanSpartan replying so you can see/ hear it again.
@@thatsalotofdamage8568 what's funny is i was thinking of this exact quote a few nights ago while watching a different Shaun video. So a weird, cosmic thank you for the reply!
@@CubanSpartan ofc no problem!
Sorry to leave this in a TH-cam comment, but please keep making these videos. They cheer me up, they make me think, and they're a breath of fresh air. Thank you!
What I don't get about the criticism of Anita is this point: Why do they ask her why she is still making videos? She did a Kickstarter. She is obligated to do all the videos she promised in the first place. And she is obviously going to go through with it.
So... do they want her to stop so they can call her a fraud again or are they just not paying attention?
Yeah a Kickstarter for improving Quality and Research, the _Research_ is on a Level with just use Google and the Quality of her Vids is the same, say what you want, shes a trained Scam Artist.
If she makes the videos too slowly she's a fraud and scam artist, if she does come out with the videos she's "making the same irrelevant content over and over again." She can't win.
_"So... do they want her to stop so they can call her a fraud again or are they just not paying attention?"_
Yes.
*_"So... do they want her to stop so they can call her a fraud again or are they just not paying attention?"_*
That question answers itself
Anita's Kickstarter far exceeded the funds that she requested and went actual years beyond the due date without finishing. Despite that, she went on to ask for more money years later and has made quite a lot of it.
I know you don't think of her as a scam artist, but you have to understand that somebody who disagrees with her will mostly just see those big numbers of $300,000 and immediately assume the worst from the get-go with those facts
As a long time and current sub to Thunderf00t, I always wondered why he bailed on his anti-feminist videos. Don't get me wrong, I always felt he should stay within his scope of expertise but I've only recently discovered hbomb and shaun. It's quite refreshing to have criticism towards thunderf00t, rather than only being exposed to an echo chamber reinforcing his views. Thanks Shaun!
His field of expertise is primarily organic chemistry. In that field he seems to be genuinely good. This obviously means knowledge of physics but not all and definitely not in every field. But the further away he gets from that the less capable he is. Being a good chemist is exhausting. Being good at anything else especially societal issues a bit more difficult. Unfortunately his die hard fans often overrate him and give incorrect data on what his training is. Which is funny since his basic alma mater is easily available for anyone to check. Doesn't mean that someone cannot express an opinion but the smart scientists will always be careful to say 'this is not my field of expertise'. The smart and 'careful' scientist will know that he doesn't have access to everything and cannot reason every possible scenario.
this is so infuriating to watch. You're amazing for being able to sit through Thunderf00t and especially The Amazing Atheist. A+++
Wow, Phil really has some issues to work out. Secret love letters to Anita Sarkeesian, indeed. Great video.
It's actually a surreal experience. Throughout the entirety of GG, which I got swept up in, I'd never even actually heard Anita's voice.
Hearing her talk, it really hurts knowing what was done to her during that time.
These videos are nothing short of wig snatching AND I LIVE.
When you start asking Thunderf00t if he's okay I genuinely laughed out loud so hard I had to apologise to my mum
You know when I was in high school Thunderf00t's videos provided me with a lot of comfort, and useful information, being someone who was continuously under attack from people who got sucked into creationist evangelism. Then he started making videos about a woman who felt unsafe in an elevator. Then a woman looking at games with a feminist lens, and that moment is when I unsubscribed and never looked back. Before Anita started her Tropes vs. Women in Video Games series I was a fan of feminist frequency in general. Gamergate really was a ridiculous time, where your favourite science youtube channels RAPIDLY transitioned into being anti-women hate channels with no warning whatsoever.
What could Thunderf00t teach better, a course on Anita or one on science?
Not too difficult to teach on Anita.
"Everything is sexist, everything is homophobic, everything is racist." - Anita 101.
CommissarKozlov
"I joke about how it (learning about social systems) was the most liberating thing that ever happened to me and the most frustrating thing for everyone around me, cause when you start learning about systems everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out to everyone all the time, so there was a point in my life where i was the most obnoxious person to be around."
The implication when she said this being that she no longer is that kind of person when she she started to see herself in a negative light for doing what she was doing.
Anita Sarkeesian seems... incredibly reasonable and good at what she does
so you thank Jack Thompson and Patricia Pulling are reasonable
I don't know who those people are
they mad this argument
depictions of (____a____) in(____b____) reinforces (_____c____)
Patricia Pulling (a);satanic imagery (b) D&D (c)Satanism,
Fredric Wrentham (a) violence (b) comics (c) violence,
Will H Hays (a)what ever is in the Hays Code (b) movies (c) moral decay,
Jack Thompson a) violence (b) video games (c) violence,
Anita Sarkeesian (a) sexism (b) video games (c) sexism,
Anita is often so wrong
1. Critiquing that bayonettas Charakter has no complexity without playing the game or paying attention to the story
2.zalda is basically always a damsel in distress
3.her take on hitman where the women in the strip club are background decoration (even if they have a dialog that gave them some characterisation and let a normal human feel sry for them )
Not to mention that she doesn't record her own futage despite having more then enough resources for it
How come everyone who responded negatively to this comment also have terrible spelling and grammar?
"Mei, she's lovely, amazing and she's my friend." Ah yes, I see you're a man of exquisite culture as well.
10:06
Anita Sarkeesian has also never said that video games causes violence or sexist behaviour. She's only said they *REINFORCE* violent and sexist behaviour. Totally not the same thing.
yep those are two different things, in order to reinforce an idea someone has to have that idea in the first place. Learn what words mean.
dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/reinforce
Mads Hummelshøj-Agerholm Maybe I need to be more blunt in the future just so people like you can understand. There is no evidence to support EITHER of those conclusions, that games cause or REINFORCE violence or sexism but being that Jack Thompson tried the former and failed, Anita now tries the latter. Now, I have no doubt that if Anita Sarkeesian was a man that this thing would have died long ago. However, seeing as the media apparently sees women as more frail and incapable of dealing with mockery and criticism, instead of being shown the door like Jack, she's being lauded and idolised. (And yes, before you start, Jack Thompson also received multiple rape and death threats.)
If Anita claims that games "reinforce" violent and sexist behaviour, she's in fact saying that games CAN have an influence on violence and sexism. Just because she uses vague language that implies the violence and sexism is already inherent (or dormant) doesn't change anything. And she's not saying this as a theory, she's asserting it as objective fact. The problem is that various studies made decades ago (and even more recent ones, too) disproved her claim even before she made it. There is no correlation whatever, no cause or "reinforcement" or anything of the sort. She's just spouting nonsense.
Pitchguest so you said that studies have proven that games cannot reinforce someones sexism.
In order to prove that these studies have to prove that either
A: culture cannot influence peoples beliefs
B: Games are not part of culture
please do link to these studies that you claim prove Anita wrong, because it woould be very fun to see a scientist claim either of those.
Have you ever heard of propaganda and how it can influence people and Advertising can do something similar, what reason would there be for games to be any different?
Mads Hummelshøj-Agerholm Amazing. You basically just admitted that you don't have any basis for your argument and you choose to take Anita at her word without any critical thinking of your own.
The studies disproving the correlation of real-life violence and games was done over twenty years ago and there are still studies being made today that still show no cause and effect. It's been done and you're well overdue.
The studies disproving the correlation of real-life sexism and games are more recent. Here is one:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25844719
I'm not sure how willing you are to verify and frankly it's not really that important if you do, but the fact that you haven't even bothered to ask these questions before now is incredible. Can this woman say anything at all and you'll believe her? How gullible are you people?
funny here are some studies from the very same website
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27074057
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16533123
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24458215
is it me, or do I actually feel sympathy for anita?
Riiight. Keep telling yourself that.
To be fair she wasnt causing issues? Did she deserve all the death threats she got?
Nobody deserves death threats or any abuse. That should be a given. Criticism is something else.
What? When did I say that?
I have seen plenty of legitimate criticism of her work, and if you don't agree that any of the actual criticism has merit, okay then. Nobody is justifying death threats and harassment, and if they are, they are clearly in the wrong.
Thunderf00t has the kind of voice you can smell.
Psst, hey Thunderf00l, Gone Home has an M rating, though even if it didn't your pedantic obsession over game ratings and what they imply is asinine.
Nice catch!
Added an annotation pointing this out. Ty
Psst, hey Anita there are no studies that state anything you ever claims
It's hardly relevant what studies have to say about Anita's "clams" or any of her other mollusks for that matter.
@@trip9845 didn't know you made another account, TR;DR
I'm surprised you didn't get into Dr. Mason's conflating of the rating 'mature' with the content actually BEING mature. Most of the games that have an M rating slapped on them are, after all, some of the most childish games ever made.
Reminds me of the "Mature Readers" comics that are just blood and tits and fuckwords. Whereas the term was originally applied to comics that had a lot more going on, in terms of thematic material and more complex storytelling. And it still is, of course...but there are also a lot of the former, juvenile examples of "Mature Reader" comics.
@@jamesoblivion Yeah, just seems like the classification "Mature" needs a renaming - like "contains violence, sex, nudity, drug use, etc" rather than actually being a mature look at things. This video, for instance, is actually mature. Actually, that would be great - can you imagine picking up a game and instead of a "mature" rating it had a list on it like "contains: nihilism, existentialism, depression". I would play the hell out of that game.
Remember when thunderf00t just stuck to making videos debunking creationism?
Yeah...those were the days...
"Mid-rift?"
Mid-Rift is obviously a Pacific Rim reference.
It still boggles my mind how what Anita was talking about was ever controversial. You look back at many of these early 2000s and 2010s console games, especially the ones Anita was highlighting, it's patently obvious that female characters were hypersexualized with their typical attire and unrealistic body proportions. And it's even creepier when you account for the canonical age of many of these characters, and the thought of some greasy 30 year old drooling at a fictional teenager. But it's exactly what you'd expect from male-dominated video game developers catering exclusively to the lowest common denominator of straight male gamers. I guess these "anti-sjws" back then just hated the idea of games catering to anyone else. You know, that other 45% of gamers. We're not perfect nowadays either, but there has been progress at least.
The response should've been
It's okay to have attractive characters within a video game and watch her videos entirely
Which some didn't
Most of the people who talk about it and listened to it were kids
Most adults don't really have the time to go around and watch all of these videos and write hate comments
Also, i dont know any hypersexualised minors in game
I don't really care because "creepy" is not the same thing as immoral or unethical
Developers should be allowed to implement whatever they want in a videogame
It's wild how such beginner level feminist critique of games was one of the major targets of gamergate. Like it's remarkably surface level.
@@GibbDibbYou don’t consider drawing hypersexualized, barely clothed minors (children) for making a profit by selling it to men to lust after to be unethical or immoral? That’s an ethical, moral thing to do?
@@stubbwinkley4015
No, it's not morally good or morally bad.
It's a benign act that doesn't cause any harm in a substantial enough way.
@@GibbDibbit's normalizing viewing minors as sexual objects. I'd say that's an issue :|
"I Don't Debate Enemies, I Bury Them" is my favorite Panic! song
This is so good to watch. I absolutely adore your videos, they're well structured, well paced, your delivery is calm and not aggressive (which is so damn refreshing on youtube) and everything is well explained and argued. Fantastic job as always, thank you so much for all the work you do!
The fact that so many of us are former anti-sjw's who found the truth and changed our persepctives should give each of us a great deal of hope for ourselves and those in world around us.
Thunderf00t definitely secretly has a crush on Anita
Your videos are actually pretty chill, despite the serious subject matter. You take your time, and you don't shout, and it makes it easy on the ears.